Your government/military at work...or not.[quote]It's hard to imagine an American weapons program so fraught with problems that Dick Cheney would try rep..."/>

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V-22 Osprey...a flying shame

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, December 26, 2010 10:11
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VIEWED: 955
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Friday, December 24, 2010 12:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Your government/military at work...or not.
Quote:

It's hard to imagine an American weapons program so fraught with problems that Dick Cheney would try repeatedly to cancel it — hard, that is, until you get to know the Osprey. As Defense Secretary under George H.W. Bush, Cheney tried four times to kill the Marine Corps's ungainly tilt-rotor aircraft. Four times he failed. Cheney found the arguments for the combat troop carrier unpersuasive and its problems irredeemable. "Given the risk we face from a military standpoint, given the areas where we think the priorities ought to be, the V-22 is not at the top of the list," he told a Senate committee in 1989. "It came out at the bottom of the list, and for that reason, I decided to terminate it." But the Osprey proved impossible to kill, thanks to lawmakers who rescued it from Cheney's ax time and again because of the home-district money that came with it — and to the irresistible notion that American engineers had found a way to improve on another great aviation breakthrough, the helicopter.

Now the aircraft that flies like an airplane but takes off and lands like a chopper is about to make its combat debut in Iraq. It has been a long, strange trip: the V-22 has been 25 years in development, more than twice as long as the Apollo program that put men on the moon. V-22 crashes have claimed the lives of 30 men — 10 times the lunar program's toll — all before the plane has seen combat. The Pentagon has put $20 billion into the Osprey and expects to spend an additional $35 billion before the program is finished. In exchange, the Marines, Navy and Air Force will get 458 aircraft, averaging $119 million per copy.

The saga of the V-22 — the battles over its future on Capitol Hill, a performance record that is spotty at best, a long, determined quest by the Marines to get what they wanted — demonstrates how Washington works (or, rather, doesn't). It exposes the compromises that are made when narrow interests collide with common sense. It is a tale that shows how the system fails at its most significant task, by placing in jeopardy those we count on to protect us. For even at a stratospheric price, the V-22 is going into combat shorthanded. As a result of decisions the Marine Corps made over the past decade, the aircraft lacks a heavy-duty, forward-mounted machine gun to lay down suppressing fire against forces that will surely try to shoot it down. And if the plane's two engines are disabled by enemy fire or mechanical trouble while it's hovering, the V-22 lacks a helicopter's ability to coast roughly to the ground — something that often saved lives in Vietnam. In 2002 the Marines abandoned the requirement that the planes be capable of autorotating (as the maneuver is called), with unpowered but spinning helicopter blades slowly letting the aircraft land safely. That decision, a top Pentagon aviation consultant wrote in a confidential 2003 report obtained by TIME, is "unconscionable" for a wartime aircraft. "When everything goes wrong, as it often does in a combat environment," he said, "autorotation is all a helicopter pilot has to save his and his passengers' lives."

Lots more at http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1665835,00.html#ixzz1
94Md7xCU



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Friday, December 24, 2010 1:19 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Niki,
from other sources I've seen, I agree, the aircraft is a dog, technical-wise.
You mention, a couple of times, " home district" pressures, for jobs and money, I assume. Can you name names? States? Cities? Congressmen? ( And, please, I'm not being snarky or accusative-- I want to know who's benefitting from this turkey.)

AN old punch line, too accurate to pass up:
" As God is my witness, Travis, I thought those turkeys could fly."

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Friday, December 24, 2010 1:39 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Typical military porkbarrel halfassery, if you want a chopper, build a chopper instead of trying to make a plane into one, if you want an APC, build an APC instead of trying to reformat a humvee into one, etc etc...

War has moved on, but our generals never do, they still train our guys to dress right after volley, and seem to have the idea that "hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle" is a viable tactic, which it ain't, and hasn't been since fully automatic weapons were developed - they learned NOTHING from the battle of the Somme, or any fight since.

Fighter Jets ? please, when was the last time we fought anyone with an air force worth a mention, when was the last time we NEEDED an air superiority fighter ?

Carriers ? floating deathtraps, useless in the modern era - although I would keep them around, and close, in a defensive and civil support role, the resources and rescue ability of just one major carrier would have made a hell of a difference in New Orleans, and would have been a damned helpful staging platform for the Gulf Spill too.

Tanks ? only good for shooting the hell out of tanks, vulnerable to any moron with an RPG, and cold meat for most helicopters, even armed civvie ones.

World War Two is OVER, the days of immense gotterdammerung battles are OVER, war these days is fought on different scales, with different tactics, Sig-intel MATTERS, Humint MATTERS, and not just whatever is politically convenient to believe - cause that gets people killed.

But then, that's the army for you, trying to fight a 5th Gen War with 2nd Gen tactics, and wondering why they need a nine-to-one advantage to be any kind of effective at all.

Stuff that DOES work:

A-10 Warthog; damn near indestructible, close infantry support and capable of eliminating strongpoints, runways, armor and whatnot, worth every damn penny we paid for it.

Drones; Not so much in an attack role, save as a terror weapon - I liken them to german buzzbombs, cause they're that random, cause as much collateral, and are militarily ineffective in strikes since our intel is based off fiction, fear and faith instead of anything really actionable 90% of the time - but as a recon element they're very cost effective.

Helicopters; Although ours are crap, and we really *do* need one that doesn't have to be held together with duct tape and bailing wire, they were prettymuch the future of both air power and troop movement since VTOL aircraft have proven utterly ineffective with the exception of the AV-8 Harrier, which isn't cost effective at all.

And of course, there's not GETTING into a pointless, unwinnable conflict in the first place, but when all you have is a hammer....

Generals should NEVER be in charge of policy, ever, ever, especially not our retro-throwback moron-apes who can't even think past the post-machinegun era.

-Frem
Disclaimer: I do own a substantive amount of stock in Sikorsky...

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Saturday, December 25, 2010 8:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hee, hee, hee; you made me giggle with that quote, NewOld. Right on target.

I didn't mention states who benefit, that was a quote. But I'll check.

I found this, as of 2000:
Quote:

A four state coalition led by AGs and Assistant AG-Air’s, had visited the V-22 Program Office at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md., in January. That included included Alaska, California, Minnesota and New York. They are interested in exploring the Osprey’s capabilities in nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) incident response missions. This is a role for which the National Guard has primary responsibility
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/v22/tilttimes/sep00.pdf

I'm pretty sure that died a slow death long ago...I would assume any state with Boeing in it (that's us, fer shore) would benefit...

and this
Quote:

Diversified industrial manufacturer Eaton Corporation (NYSE:ETN) today announced that the Department of Defense’s decision to purchase 167 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft will lead to an estimated $120 million in revenues for the company over the life of the multi-year contract.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/email/alert/?ndmViewId=ne
ws_view&newsLang=en&newsId=20080505005734


That's all a quick search came up with.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Saturday, December 25, 2010 11:35 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

It has been a long, strange trip: the V-22 has been 25 years in development, more than twice as long as the Apollo program that put men on the moon. V-22 crashes have claimed the lives of 30 men — 10 times the lunar program's toll — all before the plane has seen combat.



Correction: Apollo never put live men on the Moon then returned them safely to Earth. Lower-case moon, however, is defined as a movie set on Earth. So in the original quote, yes, NASA put men on a moon set on Earth, then billed the taxslaves billions. Death toll for Apollo astronots was officially 12, all killed on Earth in spacecraft or aircraft. A nation dumb enuff to think it walked on a moon is dumb enuff to buy Ospreys.

But the Osprey does look great on Ghost In The Shell, about US false flag nuke attacks.

The Osprey is one of many weapons systems designed to destroy the US military and kill US troops in large numbers. Over 4,000 Bell helicopters were shot down in Nam, most with bows and arrows, according to Col Fletcher Prouty.

Now that the "Neverending" Afghaniraq War has lasted longer than Nam, the Osprey can accellerate the death count of US troops, approaching 100,000 KIA so far.

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 10:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...




Go for it, PN!




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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