They're sinnnnkkkking. ..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Remember Bobby Jindal's Sand Berms?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, July 19, 2010 10:36
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2146
PAGE 1 of 1

Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:30 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


They're sinnnnkkkking.



Quote:

Former Louisiana State University marine sciences professor Len Bahr said aerial photos taken from June 25 to July 7 show a berm under construction near the Chandeleur Islands "shrinking like a wool sweater in hot water."

Share "The berm is disappearing and some very expensive construction equipment is drowning in the surf. That can't have been the plan," said Bahr, a leading critic of the BP-funded $360 million berm project. He's also a former coastal policy adviser to several Louisiana governors, including Bobby Jindal, who championed the berm project.

Bahr posted several photos on his website that appear to show the E-4 berm eroding over a 12-day period as heavy equipment, including a bulldozer, becomes partially submerged.

Bahr said he received the photos from federal officials who he said asked not to be identified. "This whole thing has gotten so political that they're concerned about retribution," he said.

6/25:


7/2:


7/7:


Jindal's administration released photos taken 7/13 of the same "E-4" berm, which appears significantly larger and has raised edges that are absent from the last two photos in Bahr's sequence.



Young said the state's more recent photos show that "they've obviously been hard at work rebuilding the berm."

Calling the E-4 berm an early sign of success, Nungesser urged the corps to approve the state's full request for 18 more berms totaling another 80 miles.

Young said such a large-scale project would be a futile race against the Gulf's erosional powers.

"If they tried to build all of the berms, the first one would be gone long before they finished the last one," he said.







Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:37 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Why on Earth don't they move the industrial equipment to a safe place when they're not working on the thing?

And if they are working on the thing, and the thing starts to collapse, why on Earth don't they get it out of there?

It's like the three stooges are working the construction crews.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:43 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quick! Blame Obama! How could he waste all that money and just leave expensive construction equipment out there? Why does Obama hate the Gulf?

Oh, wait - this is Bobby Jindal's mess. Well, in that case, it's no big deal. And probably Obama's fault anyway. Right, Rappy?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:55 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I actually don't think trying desperate measures is unwarranted in a desperate situation. Even if the action proves to be unsuccessful, there is something to be said for the morale boost of trying.

Still, if they drown their bloody equipment, they can't very well continue, can they? That's what burns me. Saltwater is poison to machinery. If you dunk it, I wager it's probably all over for that piece of equipment. And it's so EASY to just drive it off to a safe distance when you're not working, or to evacuate if things go south when you are.

I blame whoever is running the construction crews, myself. Terrible execution. It's like Burnside was resurrected and put in charge of the project.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:17 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sad, isn't it? Scientists were saying it wouldn't work from the very beginning. Jindal et al. screamed and hollered so much the Corps let them build one to see how it worked. It didn't.

There's more information and an interview with the scientist here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#38270855

Apparently several scientists are saying the berm is suffering from "erosional scouring". They weren't consulted before the berm was started, and they had serious concerns.

For one thing, the berm won't be completed (if they can) for nine months, so they may be a moot point (if they hold up) by then.

Every scientist supports a massive shoreline restoration project to bring the Gulf back to a sustainable level. Although the berms themselves wouldn't be a problem, the sand around there is finite, and dredging up sand to build the berms (then watching them sink) changes the profile of the bottom, which could make the problem even worse long term and increase the erosion rate.

Also, the berms (if they're built and if they don't sink) would change the waterway and could increase the flow of water, bringing more oil IN as a result.

They'd also cost $360 million...billed to BP of course. But where else could that money have been spent more effectively, I wonder?

As to why they'd rush to do something that's unproven and might be a problem long term:
Quote:

The administration approved the berm plan amid mounting pressure from Louisiana Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal, the state's congressional delegation and local leaders. Those officials say the berms—which would stand six feet above the Gulf's mean high-water mark and be 25 feet wide at their top—are the state's best hope to protect its fragile coastal marshes from an onslaught of oil.

But the Environmental Protection Agency has raised myriad concerns about the berm plan. The EPA has argued the berms probably won't keep most of the spilled oil away from the coast and could cause unintended ecological problems.

The dispute shows the mounting pressure on politicians to be seen taking decisive action against the Gulf disaster in the short term—even if those actions raise potential long-term problems of their own.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/10/berms-getting-built-doubts-persis
t
/ (from FauxNews, mind you, so it must be true)

Well, Anthony, Jindal's the one if you want someone to blame. He pushed HARD for the project, then he went ahead with it without allowing the scientists to be involved, and now he's rebuilding them post haste to call them a "success". (The scientist interviewed, by the way, snarked that it was being done "without adult supervision"...bit of resentment there...) It's Obama and the Corps' fault for letting him do it, but if they hadn't, imagine the fuss that would be raised? HOPEFULLY when this one fails, they won't go further and will recognize that however good the idea sounded, it didn't work. Hopefully...or else push for the entire project, do it badly, have them sink and suffer the consequences of both water-damaged machinery AND long-term erosion difficulties.

But I'm sure it's Obama's fault anyway...somehow.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:23 PM

KANEMAN


At least he tried. Really. He is trying to save HIS states' coastline. That same coast Niki2 that you are willing to go to clean pelicans...Have a standard please...Really.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:43 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


But again, why did he just leave all that construction equipment out there to sink? Why not move it ashore where it could at least be used to try again? What the fuck? Is he trying to create an artificial reef using the equipment to bury itself? (Cue *that* pic if you would, Frem!)

Seriously, how fucking loud would you righties be howling if this had been OBAMA'S pet project? Huh? Would you just shrug and say, "Hey, at least he tried," and let it go that easily? Would you?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:39 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
(Cue *that* pic if you would, Frem!)




In their defense, that kind of thing can creep up on you, but still they should have got a freaking BOAT out there or something, cause as mentioned salt water is murder on equipment and those submerged dozers are gone - it's cheaper to build a new one than try to fix that, all you can do is strip them for useable parts now.

There's very few choppers with enough heavy lift capacity to move something like that, and last I heard most of them were in Haiti moving relief supplies and such, thus it would take some time to get them back here, there's also not many of them and the coordination and authorization problems caused by BP being "in charge" of matters involving federal, state, military and private resources, none of whom are effectively communicating or cooperating with each other, resulting in cluster fucks like this.

The guys DRIVING that equipment were probably howling at the top of their lungs, and getting buried in red tape, buck passing, and uncertainty about who should be responsible, etc etc.

As a former Quartermaster, the situation offends me on a level I can't really express that well, because that's what they DO, you see, and despite perceptions to the contrary, I have enough administrative skills to comprehend why things are such a clusterfuck and be really annoyed about it - this is more BP's fault for not having an established multi-platform chain of command, EVERYONE should know *WHO* to call when it gets beyond their own authority, and everyone they call should have a list of who's responsibility is for what with a list of contact info, and who to contact if they have no idea, the "utility infielders" who handle problems like this BEFORE they become epic screwups.

Problem is, to make a decision means to accept RESPONSIBILITY, and BP's execs are rather desperate to avoid that.

If the water closed in and blocked their exit route, and Jindal did not HAVE under his personal authority anything capable of moving that equipment, he would have to get it somewhere, and if that got mired down in red tape and buck passing, I would say not all of the fault is his, you understand ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 16, 2010 6:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sorry, doesn't wash for me, Frem. If Jindall hadn't made such a stink (along with What's-his-name from the parish), the berm wouldn't have been even begun. If they'd consulted the scientists they could have at the very least done a better job. And once it's obvious the berm was sinking, if they actually CARED, they'd have abnadoned it, rather than building it up again so they can crow about "victory".

It's politics. It's trying to look good by doing "something", whatever the contra-indications, whatever the long-term damage, and that's inexcuable in my book. The destruction of the machinery is visible proof of it; their choosing to ignore the obvious speaks clearly to wanting to put politics ahead of actual responsibility.

If they really CARED about doing something, they'd have seen this didn't work and tried to think of something else. Wanna bet Jindal defends it to the death and demands the rest of them be built? I wouldn't take that bet. This "looks good", which puts them in the same category as BP, who only want it to LOOK like they're doing the right thing, while simultaneously ignoring the call for less dispersants, because the dispersants make the oil SINK, and it won't show up for a year or more--by then they figure it'll all be over, so less for them to deal with; like sending boats out to just sit in the water without doing anything 'cuz it "looks" like they're protecting the coast.

IF Jindal gets all his berms built--in nine months, by which time they'll be irrelevant, and despite the fact that they narrow the waterways so more oil will actually be siphoned IN, etc.--he'll probably be out of office before the long-term effects show up, and that's all he or BP care about: being gone before the consequences show up.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:51 AM

DREAMTROVE


Having spent all week on the beach making sand castles, this seems like a perfectly natural event. The berms will sink forever. You have to constanyly build them up.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, July 17, 2010 5:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Damn straight, DT. I can't figure out how they thought it would work in the FIRST place! I mean they LIVE there, they should know what water does to sand!

My worry is they'll keep on going anyway. What a waste of time, energy, machinery and money (tho' given it's BP's money, that bothers me less, since it wouldn't go where it SHOULD go anyway).


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, July 19, 2010 3:41 AM

DREAMTROVE


Niki

It does work. You have to keep doing it, but it works. If you leave it, eventually the sea will revert to it's gaussian curve, but it's a good idea to do this while cleaning up, if you have actual clean up. I just read BP's own clean up vehicles were just sitting there.

Speaking of clean-up, you just posted that they're allowing clean-up workers in now? I can't find the link. I'm thinking that I might go down there and help out. What info do you have?


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, July 19, 2010 6:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Can you explain to me how it would work in cleanup, and how it could do so without changing the existing contour of the ocean floor in such a way that use of the sand doesn't change the configuration, causing more problems down the line?

Yes, there have been instances of BP "faking" cleanup, like sending crews out when celebrities (and the Prez) are there, then pulling them after they leave, and sending "skimming" boats out off shore to sit there all day doing nothing then come back in at night, etc. Also that clean-up workers rest more than they work; I posted the absurd "timetable" of how much they were to "rest" in any given temperture.

If I led you to believe they were letting people in, I misspoke. I don't know of any instance of that, nor do I imagine there will be any. Officially. People are sneaking in--given that some people are actually utilizing beaches, letting their children swim and come out with tar balls attached to them (!) (I posted a video)--certainly people can go and mingle and clean somewhat, and places in Florida I KNOW have told both government and BP to stay away and are cleaning on their own, but beyond that, I have no knowledge.

My going down will be through IBRRC, so I'll be working with the people cleaning wildlife. If you hear anything about beach cleanup being allowed, PLEASE let us know; if I can find anywhere near where I'm working that I can do some cleanup, I would love to get out there in my spare time (since I imagine they'll force workers to take "time off" in one form or another, and if I can't find somewhere else to help and have the energy, at this point I intend to go find some small things I can afford to buy, and/or eat dinner somewhere local--anything I can spend what money I have to help out. Which reminds me, I have to put something in my update post.

That's all I know, anyway. I'd love any info YOU find out.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, July 19, 2010 7:53 AM

DREAMTROVE


Berms break up tides. Th oil will wash up on the berm, and then seep around, but you will have more control over the water coming in. I built them for every sand castle the girls made to prevent them from being washed over. The berms sink, but even a sunken berm breaks up the tide. Bad for surfers, but good for cleanup workers. easier to clean a calm sea.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, July 19, 2010 10:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What about what the scientists are worried about...that they have a long-term plan to ameliorate the situation down there and the sand dredged up will make that more difficult?

I know what you mean about berms, but it doesn't seem efficacious to me at the expanse they're trying to do it, nor when the weather gets bad. But then what do I know?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
A thread for Democrats Only
Mon, September 23, 2019 05:08 - 2729 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!!!
Mon, September 23, 2019 01:52 - 2849 posts
Impeachment Investigation Is Underway, Judiciary Committee Says
Sun, September 22, 2019 23:40 - 104 posts
U.S. Navy officially confirms ' tic tac ' encounters are real. Now what ?
Sun, September 22, 2019 17:14 - 41 posts
Boeing 737 Max
Sun, September 22, 2019 14:47 - 133 posts
Trump Administration Tried To Bury His Climate Study
Sun, September 22, 2019 14:24 - 57 posts
Aspartame renamed Neotame, formerly Pentagon's Neotox WMD
Sun, September 22, 2019 12:40 - 5 posts
President Trump: good, bad, and ugly
Sun, September 22, 2019 10:58 - 178 posts
Writ has been dropped
Sat, September 21, 2019 23:23 - 15 posts
Who Is Running In 2020?
Sat, September 21, 2019 21:00 - 228 posts
The truth: It's too late. We will go extinct, very soon. Enjoy the time you have left.
Sat, September 21, 2019 20:26 - 510 posts
Intercepted communications between Russia, Trump
Sat, September 21, 2019 12:21 - 38 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL