Whatcha think: non-PC, or over-reaction?[quote]Another week, another crisis in the latest installment of "Perennially Pissed Off Nation, 2010." This ti..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Jones and the Jews: You Must be Kidding (not PN)

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 11:01
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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 9:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Whatcha think: non-PC, or over-reaction?
Quote:

Another week, another crisis in the latest installment of "Perennially Pissed Off Nation, 2010."

This time the sensitive souls expressing outrage went ballistic over the warm-up joke that the president's National Security adviser made during a presentation to a pro-Israel Washington think tank last week.

Here's a link to the offending clip of General James Jones, trying to do shtick -

(OK, I can understand some of the ire; the routine does need a little work.)
Quote:

In order to set the stage for my remarks I'd just like to tell you a story that I think is true. It happened recently in southern Afghanistan. A member of the Taliban was separated from his fighting party and wandered around for a few days in the desert, lost, out of food, no water. And he looked on the horizon and he saw what looked like a little shack and he walked towards that shack. And as he got to it, it turned out it was a little store own by a Jewish merchant. And the Taliban warrior went up to him and said, 'I need water, give me some water.' And the merchant said, 'I'm sorry, I don't have any water but would you like a tie. We have a nice sale of ties today.'"

"Whereupon the Taliban erupted into a stream of language that I can't repeat, about Israel, about Jewish people, about the man himself, about his family, and just said, 'I need water, you try to sell me ties, you people don't get it.' The merchant stood there until the Taliban was through with his diatribe and said, 'Well I'm sorry I don't have water for you and I forgive you for all of the insults you've levied against me, my family, my country. But I will help you out. If you go over that hill and walk about two miles there is a restaurant there and they will have all the water you need.' And the Taliban, instead of saying thanks, still muttering under his breath, disappears over the hill, only to come back an hour later, and walking up to the merchant says, 'You're brother tells me a I need a tie to get into the restaurant.'"

That's it? OK, Henny Youngman, he's not. But we're not talking about the second coming of Haman, either. After reading the reactions to Jones' joke, though, you would have thought that the beleaguered soldier-diplomat had shook up the crowd with a few gratuitous references to Shylock, the Elders of the Protocol of Zion - or, at the very least, a disparaging comment about my personal hero, Sandy Koufax. Still, more than a few critics projected onto Jones - and by extension, the Obama White House - positions that one normally associates with your garden-variety anti-Semite.

The most interesting takeaway from this eminently forgettable affair was the reaction from the familiar roster on the right. Turns out that this crew, which can be depended upon to issue scarifying denunciations of political correctness was, well, as priggishly politically correct as their left-wing counterparts. A representative sample:

Atlas Shrugged: led with the headline "Obama NSA Adviser's Vile Anti-Semetic (sic) Jokes To DC Audience" before going on to blast Obama for his "weakness and partiality to antisemitism."

Gateway Pundit:"Obama's National Security Advisor Gen. James Jones Ret. cracked a greedy Jew joke during a key note speech at a Washington Institute For Near East Policy last week...it's interesting that the same President that see racism in the legitimate actions of the Cambridge Police and the State of Arizona, hides the anti-Semitic prose of its National Security Adviser."

Hot Air:"Jones shot himself in the foot with his delivery. Not only did he painfully parse through what should have been a quick joke, but Jones has a particular bias in his political correctness. He carefully uses "Taliban militant" instead of "Muslim terrorist" or just "Muslim," which would make more sense for this joke than setting it in Afghanistan, where Jewish shopkeepers are, needless to say, rare. "

William Jacobson at Legal Insurrection">: "I have no problem with the joke. I think we have to be able to laugh at ourselves, including laughing at stereotypes; in humor we often expose the stereotype rather than build upon it...That said, this is another one of those "can you imagine" moments. Substitute blacks or latinos or gays or almost any other group for Jews, and the joke playing on old stereotypes never would have been told by Jones. And if it were, Jones already would be gone from the administration."

Andrew Breitbart: Obama's National Security Advisor Tells Joke Depicting Jews as Greedy Merchants."

On and on it went all day as the sharks joined the frenzy. Boy, that was fast. We've already moved on from "Obama is a socialist" to "Obama is a Jew-hater?" The speed of that transition was impressive - even for America, where the half life of political discourse is measured in nanoseconds. I guess you don't need to be a Borscht Belt graduate to learn the lesson of the day: Humor, it seems, depends upon whose ox is being gored. As always.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504365_162-20003476-504365.html?tag=cbsnew
sSectionContent.13



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 9:49 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Allow me to offer my services as an expert joo. Anything funny is forgivable; the joke was not funny. It was awkward, and articulated persistent and nasty notions about joos. However, I am not offended, because who gives a shekel (or a fuck) what the filthy goy think?

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 10:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Actually...

Its pretty accurate.

:)P

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:23 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Bah, he's a general, effectively CEO of an organization not exactly known for kindness, tolerance or subtlety, and they do not give out them stars for humanitarian reasons - with that in mind, he was being comparatively polite.

Soldiers are a rough bunch, no matter the country, no matter their position, and as such, they *DO* tell off-color jokes, hell yes, even *I* could share a few.

So yeah, overreaction, but a predictable one - it's funny the hidden racism behind such overreactions though, isn't it now ?

-F

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:26 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Actually...

Its pretty accurate.

:)P



How's that?



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:33 AM

DREAMTROVE


I think Niki thought it would be offensive to muslims, not jews.

I'll say I don't think PC enters into it, it's pretty mild on an objective scale, but it's inappropriate for someone representing the security of the US including million of muslims, especially when the attitude of the the govt is so extremely pro-jewish and anti-muslim.

Think about what it would sound like if the president were to start telling latino jokes.

As a regular citizen I can say casually that, sure, islamic activitst groups make mountains out of molehills on stuff like this, but then, so again do the jews. Picture this, also: What if he had told a joke about the stupidity of jews to a muslim audience? Picture the outroar that would occur. With our election data showing more muslims than jews (by a hair, but still) in American, then why is it okay one way and not the other?

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:57 AM

MINCINGBEAST


I think you're mistaken, dreamy. The non brouhahahas been over the alleged antisemitism of the bad joke, not its islamophobic character. I'm not sure how a muslim would take offense (though they are spectacularly quick to take offense, and I hope that stating so is offensive to you). If anything, I can picture muslims chuckling at the failed joke, along with christians, and all manner of filthy goy.

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 4:14 PM

DREAMTROVE


Oh, Mince, be objective, some jewish people are extremely quick to take offense, it is this very whininess that drives back would've-been jews.

Another interesting thought. In answering this email, I realized that I didn't know the Yiddish word for "jews" collectively. Googling, I also didn't find it. This might be part of the prolem [/snark]

Is there a judaim? I found lots of references to sephardim, ashkenazim, references to hasidim, but no collective word. I know there's one in hebrew, but this is usually the first thing you learn, a word meaning us.

Seriously though, any jewish person who took offense has a something, well, they ought to get that looked at. A muslim might have a point. Here's why:

1) The joke paints the muslim as dumb and needy, and the jew just as clever.

2) People in the bottom rung of society are the butt of jokes with intended derision, not people at the top.

Likewise, a joke that made the english look bad, or the germans, would hardly generate much of a reaction, and it shouldn't. Poke fun at latinos, or black, and you deserve the result you get.

However, that said, some sections of the population are hypersensitive, because they have a community egging them on to respond. This is true of jews and muslims both, it's also been true of blacks, but it's lightening up a little due to Obama. (Check out the correspondence dinner, he makes fun of Steele, it's just the sort of thing you couldn't have gotten away with 10 or 20 years ago.)

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Actually, I just thought it was stupid, and bad for using any race or creed. I don't blame jews for taking offense; it's a very old tried-and-true concept, long outworn any humorous content.

Frem is right, I know, but that's no excuse when speaking to a non-military audience. It's just stupid.

If it were "my friend John" and "Jake", it would be mildly amusing to me, but not much more. To make it about races is stupid, IMHO, and bound to offend SOMEONE!

As to Jews, Muslims, etc., being hypersensitive, I think they've a right to be, to a degree (you forgot Asians, by the way, Japanese and Chinese, as well as Native Americans, and who knows how many others?). I disagree wholeheartedly that it's the Jews because they have a "group" egging them on, that doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, they've been, you're right, on the bottom rung throughout history for the most part (and Muslims far more currently), and it's derisive to either race. If I was part of a group that was consistently, over the ages, made fun of in a particular sense, I'd be pissed too. Like I said, it's a very old concept, and only stupid people still use it to get a laugh.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:53 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Dreamer, objectivity exists only in dictionaries, and our own distorted hopes for ourselves.

I would not characterize the muslim in the joke as dumb or needy, so much as a thirsty and innocent victim of joos. Near as I can tell, there is no stereotype of muslims as dumb and needy---perhaps ignorant, blood thirsty and cruel---but not needy. There is, conversely, a well-established trope of the covetous, greedy joo, and that is where this failed joke draws its non-humor from.

Yiddish is not hebrew, is not ladino, is not for the filthy goy.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:55 AM

BYTEMITE


Anti-Defamation League is Jewish, Niki, and generally always outraged about something. They're also thought by some conspiracy theorists (I think DT is one of them) to have some connection to Zionism.

I'm not sure about that last part. Does the NAACP have an association with the Black Panthers? Could they just be people who are very sensitive about the past and current social tensions?

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 11:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Don't know about the connection you first mentioned, but I don't see them as being any more hypersensitive than those on the African-American side; in fact I hear a lot less complaints from them, whereas I see a lot of Black politicians up in arms about this or that.

I still say that people of any race would be senstive whether they had any "group" behind them or not, and I'm not sure of the line between sensitive and HYPERsensitive. I know both Japanese and Chinese people who've been offended by jokes or even just remarks, and what "group" with power is behind Muslims? (I don't count the terrorists )


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 11:01 AM

MINCINGBEAST


I can't quite recall ever asserting that joos are not quick to offense. It is widely recognized that whenever something happens that they deem offensive, the ADL, and joos everywhere, riot in the streets and demand the blood of the goy. Or atleast whine a lot.

Anyone who takes offense at anything is a mark. A delicious mark. I have labored for years to purge such sentiments from my soul-substitute. Now I am mighty.

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