REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

In the doghouse with Michael Vick?

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 09:43
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VIEWED: 1549
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Sunday, August 16, 2009 1:38 PM

OPPYH


So, Vick gets signed to the Eagles for a year.
Cool. People who brutalize animals must get paid millions you know


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Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:03 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Needs two to the back of the head...




" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:45 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Needs two to the back of the head...



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Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:37 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


No, its one to the temple, and one behind the ear...THEN two to the head.

Its the only way to be sure....

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Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, now I've got a legitimate reason to never watch an Eagles game again, eh?

Maybe he's contrite and remorseful. And maybe Charlie Manson really IS the second coming...

Sorry, but I have no use for this guy. I may not necessarily agree with "two to the head", but I wouldn't feel too sorry for him if something horrible happened to him. Maybe he should be treated the way he treated his dogs. Sure, they're just dogs, but after all, he's just a person. It's not like we don't have plenty more to go around...

Mike


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Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:36 PM

PIRATECAT


First of all Eagle fans are trash without the Vick. Now here me out just for a second. Ok Panther fan here no dog in the fight. Peta's HQs is in Norfolk VA. They never knew before. He is from Newport News went to school in Blacksburg. Now if he had done this in Louisiana or New Mexico at the time this would not be a crime. The feds just want their illegal tax. Before it broke Peta's website had two letters to post for poodle kissers one to the NFL and one to the Alanta Falcons. The Falcons owner is the Home Depot CEO. The NFL is a Billion dollar enterprise. But they didn't know what their star QB is up to. Bill Polian of the Colts knew not to pick Ryan Leif over Payton Manning. So come on. They invested 150 million in a QB that can't read a defense and is just an option QB out of college. Who dropped the time on Vick the NFL did that's who. No NFL team would touch em until the NFL fans have had discussions on sports radio. Vick served 23 months out of 24 and lost huge money. I think he is a herpes giving thug. But he was set up by the NFL it just makes dollar sense. Peta wrote a letter to Arafat not to use donkeys in blowing up Jews hey don't worry about the Jews just don't kill them donkeys. I've known people who give money to animal rights while their own kids go with out. There ya go. Let Vick play.


"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:36 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, now I've got a legitimate reason to never watch an Eagles game again, eh?

Maybe he's contrite and remorseful. And maybe Charlie Manson really IS the second coming...

Sorry, but I have no use for this guy. I may not necessarily agree with "two to the head", but I wouldn't feel too sorry for him if something horrible happened to him. Maybe he should be treated the way he treated his dogs. Sure, they're just dogs, but after all, he's just a person. It's not like we don't have plenty more to go around...

Mike




I wouldn't even say he is a person...

something to scrape off your shoe maybe

but not a person



" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:47 PM

SERGEANTX


No offense to any of you all but the responses here seem a little silly.

I haven't been following this story really, but it's my understanding he got caught fighting dogs or somesuch, right? Would I be completely out on a limb to assume that there are players in the NFL who have been convicted of abusing, like, people? No? None of them have ever beat on their girlfriends or their kids? Paid for sex from women treated little better, if as good, as fighting dogs?

Anyway, I don't really care about Vick, he sounds like yet another asshole. But it seems a little out of whack to be writing him off as some kind of monster for dogfighting.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:47 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No, its one to the temple, and one behind the ear...THEN two to the head.




sounds like a waste of 3 rounds, if ya do it right. Better to save 'em, lead and brass might be scarce someday.

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Monday, August 17, 2009 4:58 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
No offense to any of you all but the responses here seem a little silly.

I haven't been following this story really, but it's my understanding he got caught fighting dogs or somesuch, right? Would I be completely out on a limb to assume that there are players in the NFL who have been convicted of abusing, like, people? No? None of them have ever beat on their girlfriends or their kids? Paid for sex from women treated little better, if as good, as fighting dogs?

Anyway, I don't really care about Vick, he sounds like yet another asshole. But it seems a little out of whack to be writing him off as some kind of monster for dogfighting.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"




I like dogs better than people as a rule,

anyway, animals and young kids are a little different


wives and girlfriends got to where they are by their own choices


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Monday, August 17, 2009 10:29 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
No offense to any of you all but the responses here seem a little silly.

I haven't been following this story really, but it's my understanding he got caught fighting dogs or somesuch, right? Would I be completely out on a limb to assume that there are players in the NFL who have been convicted of abusing, like, people? No? None of them have ever beat on their girlfriends or their kids? Paid for sex from women treated little better, if as good, as fighting dogs?

Anyway, I don't really care about Vick, he sounds like yet another asshole. But it seems a little out of whack to be writing him off as some kind of monster for dogfighting.

SergeantX

The dogs who lost in the dogfights(and could be treated by a vet for their injuries) were knocked against an oak tree until dead, electrocuted, or strangled by Vick. A real role model for the youngsters. So yeah, I guess it is a little out of whack to label him as a monster.

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Monday, August 17, 2009 11:04 AM

SAVEWASH

Now I am learning about scary.


Quote:

wives and girlfriends got to where they are by their own choices


*ducks to avoid the fallout that's coming for this lame comment*

(So they deserve to be beaten???)


"We need to keep our heads so we can ... keep our heads."

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Monday, August 17, 2009 11:09 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

wives and girlfriends got to where they are by their own choices


O.o You're saying they deserve it because they made the mistake of trusting someone?

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Monday, August 17, 2009 11:34 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

wives and girlfriends got to where they are by their own choices


O.o You're saying they deserve it because they made the mistake of trusting someone?



They made a mistake, and part of learning is recognizing that mistake

I used to have a friend who went from one abusive relationship to another ( three times while I knew her )

dating dirtbags was a choice she made, and yeah... I think she needed to own up to that choice.

Not at all like a little kid or an animal who didn't have opportunity to get help or walk away.

So while I feel for both, I have more empathy for the latter case.. and more anger towards those who who abuse that.



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Monday, August 17, 2009 11:47 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
No offense to any of you all but the responses here seem a little silly.

I haven't been following this story really, but it's my understanding he got caught fighting dogs or somesuch, right? Would I be completely out on a limb to assume that there are players in the NFL who have been convicted of abusing, like, people? No? None of them have ever beat on their girlfriends or their kids? Paid for sex from women treated little better, if as good, as fighting dogs?

Anyway, I don't really care about Vick, he sounds like yet another asshole. But it seems a little out of whack to be writing him off as some kind of monster for dogfighting.

SergeantX



If you know some about what all is involved in dog-fighting - particularly the breeding and the putting down - it might tweak your opinion a bit. I didn't really know much about it prior to the Vick affair, and now - as with Bill C.'s cigar - I know more than I really care to. By all reports I've seen and heard, Vick was in the overall operation up to his shoulda-muh-pads. It's not that he was just (ah say, "JUST") betting on the odd match here and there.

I watched him on 60 Minuters last night, and still can't decide how genuinely contrite he is. Half the time, can't decide if I care. He didn't seem all that convincing in spots, but that might be just 'cause he's not what you might call a gifted public speaker. On the other hand, as 60-M said, he's got a whole herd of lawyers and PR people on this, which really in no way quells my cynicism.



donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

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Monday, August 17, 2009 12:05 PM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

wives and girlfriends got to where they are by their own choices


O.o You're saying they deserve it because they made the mistake of trusting someone?



They made a mistake, and part of learning is recognizing that mistake

I used to have a friend who went from one abusive relationship to another ( three times while I knew her )

dating dirtbags was a choice she made, and yeah... I think she needed to own up to that choice.

Not at all like a little kid or an animal who didn't have opportunity to get help or walk away.

So while I feel for both, I have more empathy for the latter case.. and more anger towards those who who abuse that.





If I can throw in about two more cents' worth on that ('cause I basically agree with you, 'Biff): My unconscious (and largely unexamined) feeling on the matter is that a human is at least potentially better equipped/resourced than an animal to combat and/or speak out against abuse they experience from another human being. (I realize that this is not always the case in practice, and for some notable situations is never the case - like I say, unconscious and unexamined.) I can see how many might not see it that way, and even feel that my viewpoint is outright misanthropic, but there it is. All part of my liberal handicap...



donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

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Monday, August 17, 2009 12:08 PM

BYTEMITE


So, threat of violence still offers a choice of being able to walk away?

Your friend dating three dirtbags who abused her is indicative of a systemic problem, if you think about it.

In most cases, behaviour like that is unconscious, stemming from low self-esteem... Or earlier abuse. Or both.

To say that they have a choice is a gross over-simplification, and ignores the root causes of why they subjected themselves to such relationships and why they allowed the abuse.

I think I've heard that people who suffer abuse undergo changes in their brain chemistry similar to PTSD. If it's affecting your brain, you really have to wonder just how much judgment is impaired and how much choice they really have. A person can't just CHOOSE to not be depressed anymore, any more than I think they can choose to not be abused.

Plus, this perspective puts all the blame squarely on the victim, which I take issue with. If someone can blame a victim, which I'm not sure about in the first place, then I have to point out that codependency takes two, folks. Yeah, some of these abusers have serious problems as well, but it doesn't make what they do any less wrong.

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Monday, August 17, 2009 12:48 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
So, threat of violence still offers a choice of being able to walk away?

Your friend dating three dirtbags who abused her is indicative of a systemic problem, if you think about it.

In most cases, behaviour like that is unconscious, stemming from low self-esteem... Or earlier abuse. Or both.

To say that they have a choice is a gross over-simplification, and ignores the root causes of why they subjected themselves to such relationships and why they allowed the abuse.

I think I've heard that people who suffer abuse undergo changes in their brain chemistry similar to PTSD. If it's affecting your brain, you really have to wonder just how much judgment is impaired and how much choice they really have. A person can't just CHOOSE to not be depressed anymore, any more than I think they can choose to not be abused.

Plus, this perspective puts all the blame squarely on the victim, which I take issue with. If someone can blame a victim, which I'm not sure about in the first place, then I have to point out that codependency takes two, folks. Yeah, some of these abusers have serious problems as well, but it doesn't make what they do any less wrong.




But at what point do you take responsibility for your own actions?

I suffer from depression myself, it has cost me at times. But do I blame the people who don't want to deal with depressed me? Do I blame my parents ( who I believe caused most of my issues )

or do I recognize my problems and deal the best I can... and try not to fall into self destructive patterns


sure my friend had a problem... and she had friends, co workers, family try to help to no avail.

She had options, and a choice


" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, August 17, 2009 1:06 PM

BYTEMITE


I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety myself.

It took a nervous breakdown for my depression to go away. I still have anxiety, crippling anxiety that just about stopped me from getting a job because I couldn't even leave the house. I was terrified of the thought of getting into a car accident, or even driving, let alone actually going to a job interview and talking to strangers.

But here I am, working the job I wanted that I interviewed for.

So don't think I don't understand where you're coming from when you say people need to not fall into self-destructive patterns, because I've been there and I didn't.

But just because I turned out okay doesn't mean I can't recognize that all people are different, all people deal with problems differently, and some people CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES. Sometimes, they're in so deep, they can't see a way out. They're afraid their loved ones will end up hurt, or can't see how their loved ones can help, or even they have to cope by refusing to admit there's a problem.

Those are feelings, not choices. Options are not always clear. And it is easy, SO easy to be on the outside looking in, saying what someone should do. But like I said, people are different. What worked for you will not necessarily work for someone else.

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Monday, August 17, 2009 1:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Add to all that the fact that a dog will do ANYTHING - quite literally ANYTHING, including lay down its life - to please its owner. To abuse that level of trust is not just inhuman, it's inhuman.

And the comparison between Vick's treatment of his dogs and people's treatment of their wives or kids is only valid if those wives and kids are kept in cages, forced to fight to the death, and/or beaten, electrocuted, or strangled when they "disappoint" their "owner".

Mike


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Monday, August 17, 2009 1:38 PM

PLAINJAYNE


I can tell you that it's even worse when you're face-to-face with an ordinary person who's responsible for that kind of shit. Especially when there's nothing you can do about it. My calm is easily damaged, and I can't really even say my own self what I would do to'em if I could.

We had one with a dog bite--pit bull took a chunk of flesh for keeps and he needed fixing. It was overheard that this "person" was bragging about dog fighting and all his prize dogs. I really wanted to sew his lips shut. I hope the fucktard gets rabies and dies a slow, agonizing death. But I couldn't say anything, I'm supposed to be all warm and fuzzy when I'm at work.

Same goes for folks who are abusive to children, women, seniors...I just want to pull their intestines out through their noses and tie them in pretty bows. There is so much fury in my heart that I can feel my blood boiling out my ears, but I can't say anything. They have rights. I'm not allowed to do what should be done. This is why I have goram ulcers...

Day late an'a dollar short...Story of my ruttin' life!

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Monday, August 17, 2009 1:44 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety myself.

It took a nervous breakdown for my depression to go away. I still have anxiety, crippling anxiety that just about stopped me from getting a job because I couldn't even leave the house. I was terrified of the thought of getting into a car accident, or even driving, let alone actually going to a job interview and talking to strangers.

But here I am, working the job I wanted that I interviewed for.

So don't think I don't understand where you're coming from when you say people need to not fall into self-destructive patterns, because I've been there and I didn't.

But just because I turned out okay doesn't mean I can't recognize that all people are different, all people deal with problems differently, and some people CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES. Sometimes, they're in so deep, they can't see a way out. They're afraid their loved ones will end up hurt, or can't see how their loved ones can help, or even they have to cope by refusing to admit there's a problem.

Those are feelings, not choices. Options are not always clear. And it is easy, SO easy to be on the outside looking in, saying what someone should do. But like I said, people are different. What worked for you will not necessarily work for someone else.



So you are saying these people are beyond help then?

I have fallen to that conclusion, it took awhile but I ended up breaking ties with this friend because her choices were getting too painful to watch.

Felt sorry for her daughter ( dirtbag #1 )

but how many drunken fights do you walk into at three in the morning.


But empathy wise, as was the original topic

kids and animals still top the list,

anyone with a choice ( even if they don't recognize it ) are farther down that list




" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, August 17, 2009 2:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA



I think that perhaps, most if not all of society viewing him personally with rage and disgust for the rest of his natural life is every bit the justice he deserves.

-F

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Monday, August 17, 2009 2:46 PM

BYTEMITE


Beyond help is not the same as being unable to help oneself.

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Monday, August 17, 2009 4:06 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Beyond help is not the same as being unable to help oneself.



I cannot see the difference here, if one cannot accept help, or even admit to themselves the problem...

How do you help ?

I couldn't find a way to get through, if anything my attempts made things worse..

What else can you do other than watch someone go to hell or walk away


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Monday, August 17, 2009 4:08 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I think that perhaps, most if not all of society viewing him personally with rage and disgust for the rest of his natural life is every bit the justice he deserves.

-F



I hope people quit buying tickets over this, just to let the PTB know how they feel.



" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, August 17, 2009 4:34 PM

BYTEMITE


You did the right thing for you in that particular case at that time as you could best determine. And in doing so, you did the best thing for her. If you believe you could not help, then you could not help.

She may yet find help with someone else. Because that's my answer: if someone can't help themselves, eventually someone will be able to reach them to help them.

Victims of abuse ultimately have two options, get out or endure. Going by statistics, enduring will eventually prove fatal, so in actually enduring is unendurable.

And when that point comes, when the victim realizes this, they will get out. But they can never do it alone, because most often, when they try to do it alone, that's when the whole "fatal" thing comes up. That's when they need help, that's when they'll ask for it. And it's often nothing so much as needing to stay at your place for a while, and watching to make sure the most likely very angry ex doesn't come around.

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Monday, August 17, 2009 7:10 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


http://www.sackvick.net/sack-vick-petitions/


Others site have letter writing campaigns to the team and sponsors / advertisers

wait until the season starts and people in Philly have a everyone take your dog out for a shit in the parking lot during the third quarter night...




" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, August 17, 2009 7:29 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


actually would be cool to watch Eagles games



picture this



the ball is snapped

the offensive line casually steps aside


BIG SACK, Vick hit by four guys at once

2nd down same thing

3rd down same thing

Linebacker walks past Vicks prone body, mutters " woof woof"

Do this twice in the first quarter, everygame all season.... and play the other guy afterward


likely sell some tickets




" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Man, oh man, I wish something like that would happen.

But it won't.

Too much money involved.


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Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:43 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Vic looks just like the murder defendant on trial today:
http://fireflyfan.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=39593

Every now and then the camera catches him with a psychopath look in his eyes, especially when when showing crime scene photos. His roll back in his head like a shark about to bite...

Vic is just another gangmember playing football, like OJ.

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