Clinton condemns rockets from Gaza. by AURaptor

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Can ANYONE explain what HAMAS hopes to achieve by firing those rockets ?

Seriously>
Here it is, Hamas hopes to provoke Israel into utterly destroying the Palistinians, forcing the world to view it as a kind of genocide, and seeing Israel's undoing in that way.
Of course they are sacrificing ALL of their people to do it, but hey, ya cant make an omelet without breaking a few million eggs, right?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 12:14 PM

America loves a winner!

And no one els sees this ? Or they do, and simply don't want to do anything but sit on their hands and then blame Israel when it defends itself ?

I don't get it.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 12:24 PM

It's a messy situation, Israel has not exactly been the Palestinian's friends, but neither are Hamas. If Hamas could be eradicated without hurting innocent Palestinians...and if wishes were horses...
Israel is in a position to be nicer to the Palestinians, but Hamas won't let it happen.
EDIT: and Israel over-reacts IMO.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 1:14 PM

America loves a winner!

I ask, what's the " reasonable " response to a Gov't which fires rockets at your civilians, non stop, for weeks on end, and refuses any and all attempts to reach a civil agreement for cease fire ?

Seriously, what are you suppose to do ? Fire your own "primitive " rockets blindly back, and HOPE they hit the bad guys ? Of course not, you try your best to go after the ones who are doing the attacking. Seems to me, that's exactly what Israel is doing.

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Monday, March 2, 2009 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Seriously, what are you suppose to do ?

No easy answer here.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, March 2, 2009 1:22 PM

America loves a winner!

No one knows, but everyone seems to want to say Israel overreacts, but who speaks out against Hamas ? Who , other than Hillary, is saying THEY are out of line?

Just never hear that in the U.S. press. Or anywhere else, it seems.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 9:46 AM

America loves a winner!

:::cricket chirp:::::

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Wednesday, March 4, 2009 11:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA

As opposed to what, just roll over and die for the convenience of the damn Izzies, who arbitrarily kill them, bulldoze thier houses, fields, crops ?

Who let their people take land by force, and then send in their fucking military to back them up under the guise of self-defense when the locals try to defend it ?

Sure, Hamas is a buncha dicks, hell, even the Palestinians will tell you that, but when the rest of the fucking planet kowtows like scared little bitches to the country that's committing genocide against your people, stuffing them into concentration camps they bomb every so often on the flimsiest of excuses, ANYONE who dares shoot back, however ineffectively, is gonna get lauded as a hero despite how big a prick they are.

Get it straight in your thick head, what Israel is doing to Palestine is exactly and in detail what Germany did to Poland, and AT THE TIME, there were no doubt plenty of fools blaming Polish "terrorists" for provoking the Germans.

As long as we hack off any rational Palestinian faction at the knees by ignoring them, letting Israel renege on every promise, bomb them indiscriminately, blockade food and medical supplies, those rational factions ain't never gonna get no political traction there.

MY real issue with Hamas is that they want hostilities to continue in order to gain political power, which bodes ill for their people if they should do so, because it smacks of ulterior motive - blowing the crap out of the other guys civilians who may or may not agree with the governments policies, and have no real power to change them is downright asinine.

But that ain't how the palestinians see it, all THEY see is someone having the balls to shoot back at the bunch of creeps who've stolen half their country and blown the rest into the stone age while the remainder of the planet prostrates themselves to the bastards and begs for their approval - cause to THEM, that's exactly what it looks like.

So they're grasping at the only straw they've got, despite knowing what's on the other end, cause every other option they got is WORSE.

And let's not pretend we'd actually support a rational faction cause that would mean standing up to Israel, which we don't - we have ZERO credibility with Palestine and no way to ever obtain any due to twenty plus years of actively, even avidly, supporting even the worst abuses committed against them both politically and materially.

The ONLY way you're gonna pull the rug out from under Hamas is for the US to support a rational faction by immediately cutting off financial and material aid of military nature to Israel in exchange for a cease-fire, which Israel will almost immediately break - and if we back that up instead of condemning it, we're back to square one, again.

Let's not pretend we're honest about this, we ain't, and ain't never been.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:24 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Good for her! Bravo! Imagine that, someone in this day and age actually with the cajones to say to Hamas that shooting thousands of rockets into civilian areas of Israel is a no-no. And when they retaliate your people will die and infrastructure will be damaged. Whew! What cutting edge geo-political saavy! Man, I'm blown away!

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 12:00 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Get it straight in your thick head, what Israel is doing to Palestine is exactly and in detail what Germany did to Poland, and AT THE TIME, there were no doubt plenty of fools blaming Polish "terrorists" for provoking the Germans.

You're cracked. Poland as a sovereign nation existed for how many hundred years ? There's never been a NATION of Palestine. Poland didn't attack Hitler's Germany, while Hamas fired rockets daily for months on end.

I swear, having a serious conversation for some is simply too much to expect.

Quote:
And let's not pretend we'd actually support a rational faction cause that would mean standing up to Israel, which we don't - we have ZERO credibility with Palestine and no way to ever obtain any due to twenty plus years of actively, even avidly, supporting even the worst abuses committed against them both politically and materially.

900 BILLION $$ not enough to pay for bye gones ? That's 900 billion more than Hamas / Palestine deserves, but we're giving it to them anyways.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 12:08 PM

BYTEMITE

It's not a perfect analogy, but I think what Frem's saying is that Isreal's invasions and counter-attacks and efforts to defend itself end up angering those Palestinians who would fight against Isreal further.

I don't like Hamas, and I don't like the Isreali government. Both of them are keeping this whole mess going, they BOTH have to stop.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I swear, having a serious conversation for some is simply too much to expect.

On the other hand we have this:
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

The peeps with the overwhelming firepower & Gestapo orders take first blame, in some peoples view.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

I don't like Hamas, and I don't like the Isreali government. Both of them are keeping this whole mess going, they BOTH have to stop.

Yep.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 12:31 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're cracked. Poland as a sovereign nation existed for how many hundred years ?

Modern Poland was created at the end of the First World War, that's 1918. So by 1939 Poland had existed about 21 years.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There's never been a NATION of Palestine. Poland didn't attack Hitler's Germany, while Hamas fired rockets daily for months on end.

Israel drops bombs on Palestinians, and shoots them, starves them, then wonders why they try and kill them. If the British had treated the Irish the way Israel treats the Palestinians during the troubles, the world would have gone nuts. As it is there's still people making ridiculous claims of recent British 'genocide' in Ireland. Compared to how the Israelis treat the Palestinians, the British actions in Ireland were down right pleasant.
Quote:
900 BILLION $$ not enough to pay for bye gones ? That's 900 billion more than Hamas / Palestine deserves, but we're giving it to them anyways.

It's less than you've spent helping to kill them.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
900 BILLION $$ not enough to pay for bye gones ? That's 900 billion more than Hamas / Palestine deserves, but we're giving it to them anyways.

It's less than you've spent helping to kill them.

The dichotomy is staggering.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The

Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 1:17 PM

America loves a winner!

If Israel wanted to obliterate the Pals in Gaza, they would have done so by now. Israel is DEFENDING herself from Hamas attacks, not t'other way round.

And you're not MURDERED if you're actively putting yourself in the way of a large piece of machinery.

Quote:
For a period of two hours, the activists played 'cat and mouse', attempting to prevent the illegal demolitions by physically blocking the passage of the two bulldozers.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 1:42 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

And you're not MURDERED if you're actively putting yourself in the way of a large piece of machinery.

So I take it that you're 100% behind the Chinese Army if they actually did execute the guy that stood in front of the tanks in Tiananmen Square? You couldn't call it "murder", after all - he deliberately put himself in the way of several large pieces of machinery!

Mike

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 1:42 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
If Israel wanted to obliterate the Pals in Gaza, they would have done so by now. Israel is DEFENDING herself from Hamas attacks, not t'other way round.

I'll say that next time someone claims Britain 'Genocided' the Irish. Launching a few rockets into Israeli territory is every bit a reaction on the Palestinian part, as it is for Israel to drop bombs on civilians, and use them as human shields, shoot them...

At this stage, it doesn't matter who shot the first shot generations ago, because they're both perpetuating it, they're both attacking the other because of what the other did, neither has the moral high ground.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And you're not MURDERED if you're actively putting yourself in the way of a large piece of machinery.
Quote:
For a period of two hours, the activists played 'cat and mouse', attempting to prevent the illegal demolitions by physically blocking the passage of the two bulldozers.

So if someone came to illegally demolish your house, you'd shrug your shoulders and let them. I'm amazed that you can ignore the whole "illegal demolition" thing, and blame those trying to stop it.

Israel are actting as much like terrorists as Hamas are, the difference is one set of Terrorists have a bigger budget than the other. I side with no Terrorists, if you're happy to side with terrorists, that's your own problem.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 1:50 PM

Quote:
I side with no Terrorists, if you're happy to side with terrorists, that's your own problem.

AuLapdog is ALWAYS happy to side with terrorists, as long as you don't actually CALL them terrorists. Call them mujaideen or freedom fighters, and he's so there...

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 1:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And you're not MURDERED if you're actively putting yourself in the way of a large piece of machinery.

So, if you stand in front of my car, and I run you over because I REALLY wanna go, that's not murder?

I find your lack of humanity disturbing.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 2:11 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
AuLapdog is ALWAYS happy to side with terrorists, as long as you don't actually CALL them terrorists. Call them mujaideen or freedom fighters, and he's so there...

Oh come now, that's not true. He only sides with the Terrorists if a Republican says it's ok.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 2:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
AuLapdog is ALWAYS happy to side with terrorists, as long as you don't actually CALL them terrorists. Call them mujaideen or freedom fighters, and he's so there...

Oh come now, that's not true. He only sides with the Terrorists if a Republican says it's ok.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

I stand corrected.

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 3:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
I don't like Hamas, and I don't like the Isreali government. Both of them are keeping this whole mess going, they BOTH have to stop.

That's exactly it - but since we're not an honest broker, instead of acting like the teacher who actually breaks up a fight, we're acting like the teacher who UNDER THE PRETENSE OF DOING SO, holds one kid up so the other can pound on him.

My sympathy for Israel ran out the day they used american made helicopters we gave them for free, to strafe a street with american made missles, we gave them for free, where an elementary school was letting out cause they heard a rumor some supposed terrorist would be there (he wasn't) and he wasn't even a commander, not even a right hand man, but somebody's friggin gopher...

And six minutes later there were forty dead school children in the street, and for what ?
Nothing.

Israeli reaction both public and political was "So ? they're just palestinians *shrug*" and our reaction was to simply give them more free missles to reload the choppers with, and it really appalled me how little anyone gave a shit.

Bet the parents of those forty kids gave a shit though, maybe even enough of one to start lobbing rockets, right ?

It don't matter no more who started it, it only matters who finishes it - and that damned well ought to be us, cause if Israel cannot survive economically and military without us holding their little hand as they waste our gifts on slaughter instead of infrastructure, it's long past time we let the hell go, isn't it ?

They'll either learn to walk on their own, or they will not - but for damn sure I am tired of carrying them on my tax dime, especially when they commit endless sabotage, espionage and manipulation against us with the benefit of financial resources they got from us to begin with.

Cut em both off, offer aid only on the condition they stop shooting, and pull it immediately if they do - they'll either learn to live with each other, or learn to live without our help, and either one is fine by me.

-F

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Thursday, March 5, 2009 3:26 PM