REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Fire the First Shot... We Have Most of the Guns...

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Friday, September 23, 2011 04:14
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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:22 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Geezer has never told me to have intercourse with myself. That puts him in a significantly better category than some other people, as far as I'm concerned.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The problem with the comparison being made is that Hoffa said "we each have a vote" just prior to "let's take those sonofabitches out". DIRECTLY prior, which was cut by FauxNews and Breitbart. What Breitbart said is very, very clear, there is no ambiguity whatsoever. There is a HUGE difference.

Nonetheless, as I said before, I think Hoffa was using unfortunate language which was bound to become fodder for the other side to holler about. Hoffa was using the rhetoric to fire up his base; Breitbart does stuff like this all the time, I'm guessing he's one of those who likes the spotlight, from all his websites, books, speaking engagements with the Tea Party, etc.

I'm surprised everyone doesn't know Breitbart. He's the blowhard who "took over" the Anthony Weiner press conference and misquoted Shirley Sherrod, causing her to be fired. She's suing him, by the way, and has never received an apology. That tells you where he stands on his latest comment. He's all over the place and pretty hard to ignore. Trust me, he has NO shame about what he said, and if asked on camera, you'll probably hear him double down on it. It's his style.

A taste of Breitbart:
Quote:

Breitbart released heavily edited video purporting to provide "proof" of Obama admin official's "racism." Full video vindicates Sherrod, destroys Breitbart's accusations of racism. After Sherrod smear dissolves, Breitbart falsely claims his story was "not about Shirley Sherrod."

Remember the ACORN scandal? Breitbart coordinated release of conservative activists' undercover ACORN videos. Independent assessment "did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff." Investigations by CA, Brooklyn authorities find no criminality. Authorities criticize selective editing of ACORN videos.

Then there's the one where O'Keefe falsely claimed undercover video campaign was a "nationwide ACORN child prostitution investigation" implicating many ACORN employees. Massachusetts Attorney General Scott Harshbarger "did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff." Breitbart later threatened to release more tapes during election unless DOJ investigates ACORN. "There will be consequences if there isn't an investigation into ACORN. The videos will be shown and at a particular moment (meaning the election)." O'Keefe later pleaded guilty to misdemeanor criminal charge in Landrieu office case.

Blogger Hoft's smear campaign against Department of Education staffer Kevin Jennings. Breitbart eagerly embraced and promoted Hoft's false attacks on Jennings. Breitbart.tv also smeared Jennings. An October 6, 2009, Breitbart.tv post grossly distorted comments Jennings to claim he "criticize[d] schools for promoting heterosexuality." In fact, in the audio files posted at Breitbart.tv, Jennings promoted a curriculum that demands "respect [for] every human being regardless of sexual orientation, regardless of gender identity, regardless of race or religion or any of the arbitrary distinctions we make among people," and said that efforts to promote a specific sexual orientation through schools were ineffective.

Breitbart-promoted O'Keefe video: "Census supervisors" were "systemically encouraging employees to falsify information on their time sheets." BigGovernment video omits additional clip showing census crew leader stressing need for accuracy in time sheet reporting. In video, O'Keefe uses fuzzy math in calculating potential cost of the alleged census "fraud."

Breitbart baselessly implicates White House in alleged Tea Party activist Kenneth Gladney assault. Claims WH "directed" town hall violence based on egregious distortions. "These union thugs were directed by the White House to go to the protests and 'punch back twice as hard.' And they did." Actual quote was White House deputy chief of staff Jim Messina telling Senate Democrats -- not union groups -- that the administration will "punch back twice as hard" when senators are attacked over their support for health care reform.

Breitbart's BigHollywood.com claims NEA "looking to the art community to create an environment amenable to the administration's positions." Posters on Breitbart's websites baselessly claim NEA broke laws. Fox News runs with baseless lawbreaking allegation. No evidence of Hatch Act violations existed.

Breitbart's BigGovernment.com claims ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis visited White House. The "Bertha E. Lewis" who visited the White House wasn't the ACORN CEO and ACORN officials pointed out that their CEO's middle initial, as it appears on her New York voter registration, is "M," not "E." Breitbart issues semi-correction. Breitbart countermands his own correction. Breitbart issued to Media Matters a $1,000 challenge to produce proof that "Bertha E. Lewis" was not Bertha Lewis of ACORN.

BigGovernment.com: "Transvestites, Mao And Obama Ornaments Decorate White House Christmas Tree." The image of Mao adorning one ornament was actually "one of a very large series of silkscreen paintings and prints [Andy Warhol] made of Mao. Warhol's parody transformed the leader of the world's most populous nation into a vapid superstar -- the most famous of the famous." First Lady's Office: "local community groups were asked to decorate hundreds of ornaments but they are unaware of these specific decorations." On the conservative blog Hot Air, blogger Allahpundit dismissed as nonsensical the idea that the White House would use three Christmas tree ornaments out of hundreds to make a "political statement. (details and more at http://mediamatters.org/research/201007210054 now you know enough about Andrew Breitbart to put things in perspective. He drools at anything he can get that he can distort for his own uses, and he's good at it.

There's a VAST difference between one comment by Hoffa intended to motivate his base and Andrew Breitbart's consistent twisting of facts and being involved with O'Keefe in creating scandals where none exist.

This idea that the left should arm themselves or up the rhetoric in any way is unfortunate, too. There is no reason to climb down in the gutter with them and exacerbate the situation. Anyone with half a brain or who has been paying attention knows full well that people like Breitbart and the more extreme (and most vocal) members of the Tea Party are a minute minority of the right. There are extremists on both (all) sides; they pop up now and again, get a lot of attention, are rejected by the majority and fade away. To tar either side with the same brush as their extremists is the most unfortunate thing of all--except perhaps how much attention they garner and how they distract us from the actual adult conversations we need to have.

Then again, perhaps the MOST unfortunate part is that we here on REWD, who are not in the political arena, reflect far too many Americans who also buy into this rhetoric, discuss/debate it, snarl at one another, and talk like Rap and Wulf without using our brains. We expect no better of THEM, but we shouldn't stoop to their level. You guys are smarter than that.

Which brings me to that question I always ask: Why does anyone give Wulf the credence necessary to respond to him? Go back and really READ his posts; he's even worse than Raptor in that he reflects the very worst of fantasy thinking completely divorced from reality. He spouts slogans, nothing more, and isn't worth the effort to read, much less respond to.

The concept that we "fell all over ourselves" to excuse Hoffa's retoric as just 'retoric' is false. We kept explaining that Hoffa had CLEARLY said "we have the votes"--just because it was left out when FauxNews reported it doesn't change the meaning. It wasn't rhetoric, it was a plea to vote the Tea Party/Republicans out of office. There is no ambiguity, any more than there is any ambiguity in what Breitbart said; he's VERY clear and all but repeats himself several times.

And yes, we did dispel the myth that Geezr is any "nicer" than the other righties here, which I used to believe. He is every bit as partisan and twists things just as much, he's just somewhat more eloquent in his efforts to make sense. I learned that the hard way.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:35 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Geezer's every bit the partisan you and Rappy are, Wulfie; he just spells marginally better.


I keep trying to treat him as an honest fair thinker- it must be that picture of Heinlein he uses with his header.
But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me.

And, hey, have ya noticed-- the Righties are all in favor of Second Amendment rights and guns and arming themselves-- but when a Liberal suggests that the LEFTIES MAYBE SHOULD , they get all scared.
THEY know they can't win the battle of ideas and words, and they're afraid that if it came to guns, they'd be so outnumbered by lefties that they couldn't BULLY their way thru.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:24 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me.



Google the sentence fragment I quoted. That's the same fragment most of the MSM also quoted - with the previous sentence deleted. That's were I got it when I googled 'hoffa' and 'sons of bitches' which was all I remembered of the statement. Try it and see what you get.


"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:35 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I have to agree with Anthony on this one, Geezer doesn't insult in the junior high fashion where everything always comes back to sex of some sort.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:43 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I have to agree with Anthony on this one, Geezer doesn't insult in the junior high fashion where everything always comes back to sex of some sort.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya




I can cite a couple examples where Geezer has resorted to exactly that, calling me - and I quote - "a sick fuck" and telling me to "shut the fuck up" purely because he didn't like me position on a political issue.



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:46 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:


Google the sentence fragment I quoted. That's the same fragment most of the MSM also quoted - with the previous sentence deleted. That's were I got it when I googled 'hoffa' and 'sons of bitches' which was all I remembered of the statement. Try it and see what you get.


"Keep the Shiny side up"


How 'bout this? I went to You Tube and entered "Hoffa". That's all. Three minutes of the speech is what came up as the FIRST link. So you didn't try very hard. And you immediately settled for an incomplete and WRONG answer that matched your prejudice.

And as for the MSM, YOU don't normally trust them, you've said so. But you'll trust them on this. ANd also, when I first saw the story , on the MSM, they ran at least the two sentences- I heard the context when the story was first reported.

Which leaves you either LAZY or BIASED.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me.



Google the sentence fragment I quoted. That's the same fragment most of the MSM also quoted - with the previous sentence deleted. That's were I got it when I googled 'hoffa' and 'sons of bitches' which was all I remembered of the statement. Try it and see what you get.


"Keep the Shiny side up"




I googled "hoffa sons of bitches" as suggested, which brought me this as the top result:

Quote:

James Hoffa’s Full ‘Take These Sons Of Bitches Out’ Quote: ‘Everybody Here’s Got A Vote’
by Tommy Christopher | 8:03 pm, September 5th, 2011
» 291 comments
A quote from Teamster President James Hoffa is making the Labor Day rounds, particularly on the right, as evidence of the kind of “violent rhetoric” that President Obama denounced in the wake of January’s shooting tragedy in Tucson. In an abridged version of the quote posted here earlier, Hoffa says, of the Tea Party, “Let’s take these sons of bitches out,” but according to CNN, Hoffa prefaced his remark by saying, “Everybody here’s got a vote,” which narrows the comment’s meaning.




http://www.mediaite.com/tv/james-hoffas-full-take-these-sons-of-bitche
s-out-quote-everybody-heres-got-a-vote
/


Maybe you're using a more right-wing version of google. Or maybe you just neglected to cite any sources that refute your claims.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Geezer's every bit the partisan you and Rappy are, Wulfie; he just spells marginally better.


I keep trying to treat him as an honest fair thinker- it must be that picture of Heinlein he uses with his header.
But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me.

And, hey, have ya noticed-- the Righties are all in favor of Second Amendment rights and guns and arming themselves-- but when a Liberal suggests that the LEFTIES MAYBE SHOULD , they get all scared.
THEY know they can't win the battle of ideas and words, and they're afraid that if it came to guns, they'd be so outnumbered by lefties that they couldn't BULLY their way thru.




Heck, I never waited for any of the lefties to suggest we should maybe arm ourselves. I've been heavily armed for decades! :D

I don't have too many delusions about fending off any kind of invading zombie army; I just like target shooting.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 2:04 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I am pretty sure that I can defend against the creeping, slow-moving zombies for as long as I have ammunition. It's these new-age fast zombies that worry me. They move with such alacrity that I may not be able to reload before they are upon me.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Union thugs beat and terrorize people... "

OOPS. Apparently not.

UPDATE: Health Care Reform Fistfight Results in Not Guilty Verdict

Service Employees International Union members Elston McCowan and Perry Molens had been accused of misdemeanor assault in the August, 2009 tussle with button salesman Kenneth Gladney.

... D’Agrosa (defense lawyer) also asked the jury to consider that the only participant in the fight with “documented injuries” was McCowan, who had been treated for a dislocated shoulder and broken shoulder bone.


Below is the available videotape. You have to watch VERY closely with a lot of imagination to see the very non-existent beat-down.




Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:20 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Kiki, that video and verdict, combined with the on-camera face-stepping of one of Rand Paul's campaign staff and other such incidents, shows us all where the REAL violence is.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:42 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
How 'bout this? I went to You Tube and entered "Hoffa". That's all.



But I wasn't looking for a video.

But seriously, goggle "Hoffa sons of bitches" or use Bing, which I use ('google' is just a generic term for search engine to me). Look at the results page. Don't open a link, just look at the sentence or two in the description. What do you see? Do you see the word "Vote" in most, a few, or any of them?

If all I'm looking for was the inflamatory quote, out of context or not, that's what I want. It's still inflamatory whether Hoffa was talking about guns, votes, or cream pies to the face. It was a stupid statement which you, for some reason, feel you must support. Why is that, I wonder?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:48 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I have to agree with Anthony on this one, Geezer doesn't insult in the junior high fashion where everything always comes back to sex of some sort.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya




I can cite a couple examples where Geezer has resorted to exactly that, calling me - and I quote - "a sick fuck" and telling me to "shut the fuck up" purely because he didn't like me position on a political issue.




Anthony. I have to admit that on rare occasions I have called Mike "a sick fuck" and similar. There are a couple of reasons for this. First is that he had previously called me as bad or worse in the same thread. Second is that he was acting like a sick fuck.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:59 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:




Heck, I never waited for any of the lefties to suggest we should maybe arm ourselves. I've been heavily armed for decades! :D

I don't have too many delusions about fending off any kind of invading zombie army; I just like target shooting.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill


These comments and the zombie thread have caused me to do a little thinking about the manner of arming myself.
A .22LR isn't gonna stop a SWAT Team or the Army / National Guard, but anything going Bang!/ wheet! will slow 'em down to regroup and call in more support before they kill you.
And it oughtta be enough to discourage the casual thug or mob of untrained right wing nut jobs, convince 'em to go after some other liberal.
and it can't be beat for economy or availability of ammo. And I keep hearing that the 22Long is a better round than the LR- it's subsonic, so quieter and easier to silence, and less affected by sonic barrier turbulence, so more accurate. Looses a little energy, because of less velocity, so probably a little less range and a little less penetration. Not much use against zombies at range , 'cuz you gotta take a head shot, nor against foes in body armor, but unarmored thugs or nut jobs, might be enough to just scare 'em away.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:30 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me.



Google the sentence fragment I quoted.



You realize that being a sentence "fragment" means there's stuff left off, right??

Kinda the meaning to removing the context to shape a narrative.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 6:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, the lefties aren't going to like this, in the end. For one thing, we've been all through this when it happened, so arguing over it again is pretty ridiculous. Nonetheless:

I use "Go", which takes me to "ATT/Yahoo", but I specifically went to Google to check. I Googled "Hoffa sons of bitches", I got the following as the VERY FIRST LINK:
Quote:

A quote from Teamster President James Hoffa is making the Labor Day rounds, particularly on the right, as evidence of the kind of “violent rhetoric” that President Obama denounced in the wake of January’s shooting tragedy in Tucson.
.....
When outrage over Hoffa’s quote swept over Twitter, I hadn’t seen the clip yet, but the quote sounded so familiar that I took a look for another source, with broader context. Sure enough, CNN reported the quote this way:

“Everybody here has a vote,” Hoffa said Monday. “If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize. Let’s take these sons of bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.”

The full quote (Hoffa actually says “Everybody here’s got a vote,” and, employing the colloquially approved plural for sonofabitch, “let’s take these sonofabitches out”) is almost identical to something Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

The full Hoffa quote was also run in a clip later in the day by Fox News, and Fox Senior White House Correspondent Ed Henry took pains to clarify the Hoffa quote via his Twitter feed following his initial report, which omitted “Everybody here’s got a vote”:
Quote:

Full quote, Jimmy Hoffa Jr: “Everybody here’s got to vote. If we go back & keep the eye on the prize, let’s take these sons of bitches out”
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/james-hoffas-full-take-these-sons-of-bitche
s-out-quote-everybody-heres-got-a-vote/
have to give Henry points for clarifying what FauxNews so happily left out.

He is not, as was also pointed out, "Jimmy Hoffa Jr." He has a different middle name, but of course it's more useful to call him "Hoffa Jr."

Unfortunately, the search also brought this as the fourth link:
Quote:

"President Obama, this is your army," Hoffa said. "We are ready to march. Let's take these sons of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong."

The rest of Hoffa's red-meat rhetoric at a pro-union Labor Day rally.

"We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They've got a war, they got a war with us and there's only going to be one winner. It's going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We're going to win that war." http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/hoffa-lets-take-these-sons-
of-bitches-out.php
is pretty nasty rhetoric, and just what our righties will latch onto, unfortunately accurately, to make their point. While I find the comments everyone HAS latched onto unfortunate and I don't think he should have said it, the stuff you're NOT hearing about is much more egregious and I firmly decry it.

And yeah, I'd forgotten about the woman who got her head stomped on. Good point, as well as thank you for following up on the other "beat-down", which completely nullifyies Breitbart's twisting of the situation. Of course, what happens AFTER all the hoopla is rarely paid attention to.

Both sides (all sides) in politics play dirty. To get involved in "YOU did it!" "No, YOU did it", is a child's game everyone is bound to lose...but only after a lot of yelling and screaming and blaming. It's a waste of everyone's time.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:48 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Niki,
the video I saw, he was talking about " November", in the same remarks. The context of what he meant was clearly, " thru the political process", rather than " Let's take out that ba****d Osama Bin Laden," through murder .

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


NewOld, I nonetheless find the remarks none I could in good conscience condone, not just because they make fodder for the right to use against the left, but also because it's not all that clear to me (or probably many others) that he's speaking metaphorically. It's no more or less a call to action than "Don't retreat, reload!" if one chooses to take it that way. And while I firmly believe there IS a "war" going on, it's uncomfortable for me to hear somene exhorting their followers to see it as one.

Just a matter of perspective.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I have to agree with Anthony on this one, Geezer doesn't insult in the junior high fashion where everything always comes back to sex of some sort.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya




I can cite a couple examples where Geezer has resorted to exactly that, calling me - and I quote - "a sick fuck" and telling me to "shut the fuck up" purely because he didn't like me position on a political issue.




Anthony. I have to admit that on rare occasions I have called Mike "a sick fuck" and similar. There are a couple of reasons for this. First is that he had previously called me as bad or worse in the same thread. Second is that he was acting like a sick fuck.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Cites, please?

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:59 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

These comments and the zombie thread have caused me to do a little thinking about the manner of arming myself.
A .22LR isn't gonna stop a SWAT Team or the Army / National Guard, but anything going Bang!/ wheet! will slow 'em down to regroup and call in more support before they kill you.
And it oughtta be enough to discourage the casual thug or mob of untrained right wing nut jobs, convince 'em to go after some other liberal.
and it can't be beat for economy or availability of ammo. And I keep hearing that the 22Long is a better round than the LR- it's subsonic, so quieter and easier to silence, and less affected by sonic barrier turbulence, so more accurate. Looses a little energy, because of less velocity, so probably a little less range and a little less penetration. Not much use against zombies at range , 'cuz you gotta take a head shot, nor against foes in body armor, but unarmored thugs or nut jobs, might be enough to just scare 'em away.




Yup, another pro for the .22 - *IF* you have to use it in self-defense, it's a lot less likely to go through the intruder, through the wall, through the neighbor's wall, and possibly through the neighbor, when compared to something like an AK47. There's a reason my go-to home defense weapons are NOT the rifles I enjoy shooting at the range!

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:15 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


.22s don't get one very far. Although they work for rabbit hunting and pheasants, which ultimately are more useful anyway because you can eat them.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:16 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Well, I imagine just about anything is more useful than a Zombie.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:30 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

These comments and the zombie thread have caused me to do a little thinking about the manner of arming myself.
A .22LR isn't gonna stop a SWAT Team or the Army / National Guard, but anything going Bang!/ wheet! will slow 'em down to regroup and call in more support before they kill you.
And it oughtta be enough to discourage the casual thug or mob of untrained right wing nut jobs, convince 'em to go after some other liberal.
and it can't be beat for economy or availability of ammo. And I keep hearing that the 22Long is a better round than the LR- it's subsonic, so quieter and easier to silence, and less affected by sonic barrier turbulence, so more accurate. Looses a little energy, because of less velocity, so probably a little less range and a little less penetration. Not much use against zombies at range , 'cuz you gotta take a head shot, nor against foes in body armor, but unarmored thugs or nut jobs, might be enough to just scare 'em away.




Yup, another pro for the .22 - *IF* you have to use it in self-defense, it's a lot less likely to go through the intruder, through the wall, through the neighbor's wall, and possibly through the neighbor, when compared to something like an AK47. There's a reason my go-to home defense weapons are NOT the rifles I enjoy shooting at the range!



Besides which, I've already got the piece- just gotta dig it outta storage, blow the dust and cobwebs off, clean & oil., etc. It's only about 50 years old. Even got some cartridges left. . Just gotta move it back under the bed.
The noise you will hear from my neighborhood might be the misfires exploding, though...

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... I always think to myself, ‘FIRE THE FIRST SHOT.’ ...

THEY can ONLY win a RHETORICAL and propaganda war. They cannot win.

WE OUTNUMBER them in this country, and WE HAVE THE GUNS … I’m not kidding.

THEY TALK a mean game, but THEY WILL NOT CROSS THAT LINE (into physical conflict) because they know what they’re dealing with.

And I HAVE MILITARY people who come up to me ... and they go, ‘... WE'VE GOT YOUR BACK.’ They understand that. These are the unspoken things WE KNOW, THEY (military) KNOW."


Geezer, are you comparing this EXPLICIT threat of GUN VIOLENCE to people talking about VOTING? Really? Do you want people to think you're just as unhinged as Rappy and Wulfie? 'Cause really, you're losing it.


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, Geezer's already "lost it". He'll be losing the pretense next.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 7:13 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Good point Anthony.

And with the background on the Hoffa quote it doesn't seem as inflamatory as this new quote.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Cites, please?



I'll use the ones you claim to have.

Post up those threads where you were having a reasonable, civilized, on-topic discussion of the thread subject and I jumped in out of the blue and called you names.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:07 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
.22s don't get one very far. Although they work for rabbit hunting and pheasants, which ultimately are more useful anyway because you can eat them.



There's that too.

But the 22 might get you far enough. That little 55 grain bullet going by at 1150 fps won't stop a cop or the Army, but it might be enough to cause a mob to yell, " Oh, gose, he's got a gun. Run away." and they go bother someone else. Not to mention that if you actually wound someone with it, demonstrating a willingness to injure or kill, that might be enough to chase the mob off. nobody wants even a quarter inch hole in themselves, leaking out the blood of life. And it can kill, as demonstrated above, if they close on you.

Just sayin', it might be a cost effective, low profile survival tool.

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:46 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Cites, please?



I'll use the ones you claim to have.

Post up those threads where you were having a reasonable, civilized, on-topic discussion of the thread subject and I jumped in out of the blue and called you names.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Here's one:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=46786

and another:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=48050

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Friday, September 23, 2011 2:44 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Here's one:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=46786

and another:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=48050



Ah, the file cabinets do pay off, then.

Sorry, but I consider your statements in these threads, along with an accumulation of similar statements in others, sufficient provication.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, September 23, 2011 4:04 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It would seem that Mike has sufficient cause for his opinion of equivalency. This is most disappointing.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Friday, September 23, 2011 4:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Amazing. Twisting in the wind. So you considered Mike's comments "sufficient provocation" to go after him, but, what, you don't think your own comments might seem to him sufficient provocation for going after you? Wow.

You called him a sick fuck in response to
Quote:

So you'd agree that they're fair targets. U.S. soldiers at, say, Fort Hood are fair targets, since they are indeed actively planning the murders of others who aren't troubling them
What he wrote is absolutely accurate; our military does just that, not always above board, and we don't even know the full extent of what they do, but can pretty much guess. Saying so makes him a sick fuck???

Not even a nice try. I'm not in favor of anyone going after anyone here, but saying what Hoffa said was equivalent to what Breitbart said is just as assinine statement, in my opinion.

Self-justification becomes nobody.

Welcome to my disappointment, Anthony. Took me a long time, too.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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