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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Feeding the Planet without Destroying It
Sunday, May 27, 2012 8:34 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:17 PM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:28 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:30 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by ANTHONYT: What is it exactly that you are wondering about? The black market, the lack of freedoms, the inability to safely politic against the government, the isolation from the international community, the fear of crossing the powers that be because of the possibility of detention, sham trials, and execution?
Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:32 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: I went to the CIA World Factbook to check some other things.
Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:45 PM
Quote:Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA: Umm, apropros of nothing, but just as an aside - you really trust the accuracy of folk who've been proven over and over to be so universally full of shit, to be so wholly incompetent and inadequate at their job that the military had to roll their own internal agency to provide the information they couldn't ? -F
Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:24 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: OK, I looked it up. As it turns out, the world produces roughly 2700 Kcal per person per day's worth of food. That is enough to feed everyone, although maybe not enough to feed everyone a good diet: the typical macronutrient deficiency is protein so some of the Kcal may need to be converted to protein with the inevitable loss of conversion. In addition, the typical micronutrient deficiencies are vitamins A and D, iodine, omega-3 oil, and the amino acid taurine, all of which can best be obtained from ocean fish and seaweed. Considering we're already strip-mining the ocean (as well as strip-mining our topsoil and fresh water) that particular cupboard may be bare.
Quote: More than one third of the world’s grain harvest is used to feed livestock. Breaking that down a little bit Almost all rice is consumed by people While corn is a staple food in many Latin American and Sub-Saharan countries, “worldwide, it is used largely as feed.” Wheat is more evenly divided between food and feed and is a staple food in many regions such as the West, China and India. The total cattle population for the world is approximately 1.3 billion occupying some 24% of the land of the planet Some 70 to 80% of grain produced in the United States is fed to livestock Half the water consumed in the U.S. is used to grow grain for cattle feed A gallon of gasoline is required to produce a pound of grain-fed beef
Monday, May 28, 2012 2:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA: Quote:Originally posted by ANTHONYT: What is it exactly that you are wondering about? The black market, the lack of freedoms, the inability to safely politic against the government, the isolation from the international community, the fear of crossing the powers that be because of the possibility of detention, sham trials, and execution? Huh, sounds a lot like America to me. And ain't that a sad damn thing. -F
Monday, May 28, 2012 3:49 AM
Monday, May 28, 2012 6:27 AM
Quote:It's also a place where highly educated and skilled professionals can't make a living in their field and are forced to engage in manual labor in order to survive.
Quote:It's a place where you can't choose or change your government.
Quote:It's a place where your government will imprison you, torture you, or murder you for speaking out against the president or publishing materials critical of government practices, policies, or officials. It's a place where you are very much fearful of the future and isolated from the world.
Monday, May 28, 2012 9:02 AM
Quote:Forty-six people were executed during the year, and reports of excessive use of force and cruel prison conditions continued. Scores of men remained in indefinite military detention in Guantánamo as President Obama's one-year deadline for closure of the facility there came and went. Military commission proceedings were conducted in a handful of cases, and the only Guantánamo detainee so far transferred to the US mainland for prosecution in a federal court was tried and convicted. Hundreds of people remained held in US military custody in the US detention facility on the Bagram airbase in Afghanistan. The US authorities blocked efforts to secure accountability and remedy for crimes under international law committed against detainees previously subjected to the USA's secret detention and rendition programme.
Monday, May 28, 2012 9:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Again, not hearing much new here, either. You do realize I was followed by the FBI for nothing more than speaking my mind on the inet, and had to contemplate my disabled daughter's future without me? And then there is Bradley Manning, who did nothing more than publish the truth. Finally, I'm sure that Frem can quote you chapter and verse on police abuse.
Monday, May 28, 2012 11:35 AM
Quote:Originally posted by ANTHONYT: IX. State of Fear The Cuban government’s widespread use of surveillance and infiltrators creates an atmosphere where Cubans feel they are constantly being watched.
Quote:Surveillance is not only a source of anxiety in itself, but it also fosters distrust and suspicion within the dissident community. This distrust extends to the laws and institutions entrusted with protecting Cubans’ rights. Dissidents have no confidence in the ability of the courts to give them a fair trial.
Quote:Fear also discourages individuals from voicing dissent or from participating in any activity that may be perceived as “counterrevolutionary.”
Quote: “We live 24 hours a day ready to be arrested at any moment....
Quote: Dissidents repeatedly said that their phones were tapped and their conversations recorded by security officers, citing as evidence the fact that authorities later repeated back to them parts of phone conversations or people with whom they had spoken.
Monday, May 28, 2012 12:29 PM
Monday, May 28, 2012 2:42 PM
Quote:Indefinite detention, lack of a trial, inhumane conditions - all these have been signed onto by Obama, with the addition of assassination of US citizens based on nothing more than the government's say so.
Quote:But what I found is that every society has its norms
Quote:In Cuba, they have enforced equity. Here, we have enforced inequity.
Quote:Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA: Having said that, it's a pretty sure bet there's worse places to live than america or cuba, and that there's better ones too - the injustices of one country and culture should not be used to excuse or minimize those of another, and some crap you really shouldn't never do to any one, any where. If the point is that america ain't got a whole bloody room to talk about such things, yeah that's made.
Quote:But I suspect the point intended in discussion here isn't being made well - can we refine the exact notion were trying to contrast without the shotgun-spatter approach ? Better farming/food distribution practices ? More equitable resource allocation ? Let's cut it down to the quick, shall we ?
Monday, May 28, 2012 3:32 PM
Quote:The barbeque event, which organizers said served nearly 5,000 people throughout the 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. festivities, featured grocery giveaways as well as grilled food along with water and Gatorade. Those in line in the sweltering temperatures stood on a long strip of red carpet to make them feel special, organizers said.
Monday, May 28, 2012 3:49 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Monday, May 28, 2012 3:51 PM
Monday, May 28, 2012 4:47 PM
Monday, May 28, 2012 8:56 PM
Monday, May 28, 2012 9:54 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Originally posted by ANTHONYT: My biggest fear is that the United States- whether it pursues Capitalism or Socialism- is becoming such a state where the individual is oppressed more and more, and subject to the whimsy of the powers in every way. Where the individual is losing their power to shape and choose government, to speak freely, and to live their lives as they choose without fear of death or pain inflicted on them by powers outside their control.
Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:34 AM
BYTEMITE
Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:35 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Magonsdaughter Regarding food supply - as an offshoot of a study I did on human nutrition - to see if semi-aquatic human origins could be traced through non-terrestrial dietary requirements - I've come to the conclusion that a healthful diet from standard agriculture is very hard to mimic. Originally I focused on minerals, as the mineral signature of the ocean is very different from the signature of the land. And indeed, humans have a far higher iodine and zinc requirement than gorillas or chimps, as well as a far higher salt tolerance (and the only species on the planet with naturally occurring cystic fibrosis gene that is best tolerated with inhaled salt). But it turns out humans need about a gram of omega-three fatty acids, specifically DHA, per day, which can only be met eating seafood (land-based food sources have some, but not enough to supply the daily requirement). And recently it's been found that human cardiovascular health is dependent on a constant intake of taurine, an amino acid exclusively found in ocean-based life (seaweed, fish and shellfish). And then, there is that vitamin D requirement which hit the news a few years ago as a result of a Canadian study. A long time ago someone mentioned this idea to me - we'll never be able to live in space. People are so exquisitely adapted to their environment that we'll never be able to reproduce it in every necessary detail. It's really stuck with me. As we find out more each year about what people really need in order to be well-nourished it drives home even deeper that we can't keep the planet well-nourished through agri-business-as-usual. There's a fair bit of overlap between SignyM's post and mine - this is an area of common interest that we communicate about frequently. ETA: to conclude on-topic, I think the fact that people starve is a result of human organization, not lack of planetary resources. But I also think that we can't feed people WELL given the planet's resources and the number of people. The limiting factor is ocean-based food, which is disappearing, and accumulating pollution like DDT, PAHs, PCBs, PBDPEs, PFOA, mercury, and even radionuclides.
Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:55 AM
Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: What I hear: 1) "We can go into space if we don't really care about health." 2) I don't really care about my health and give less than any care about the proper proportions of omega acids, vitamins, minerals, and sea food I should be having, especially since I'm not dead yet or particularly unhealthy yet. 3) Therefore, space! But, equally honestly, I'm starting to not care about much of anything anymore, so the next time one of you proposes a solution to destroy all humankind so that mother earth can heal herself, I'll probably just give you a tired thumbs up.
Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:30 PM
Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:17 PM
Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:23 AM
Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:58 AM
Thursday, May 31, 2012 3:42 PM
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: Jack, you should become a prepper! My dad and I like watching Doomsday Preppers on NTGEO, its a really fun show. At first I felt like maybe I shouldn't watch it because I thought they might be taking advantage of people with paranoia disorders to showcase on the show, but then I watched it and I think most of those people are totally neurotypical, or nearly so, so its okay to watch it without feeling like I'm taking advantage of someone. Its fun to watch, you could grow all your own food, stockpile ammo, teach your neighbors how to prep so they won't be coming to your doorstep when things get bad etc. and you guys could be your own prepper community. I guess in some ways Byte does remind me of Zoe, she's real tough and brave like Zoe. I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: Suicidal does not equal bravery. I have evaluated my options, and it appears the only way for my life to have meaning is to die, and the only control I have over my life is when I die.
Quote:the only control I have over my life is when I die.
Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:00 PM
Quote:You're not suicidal. You're not. The fact that you're talking about it means that you're not.
Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:10 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: Quote:You're not suicidal. You're not. The fact that you're talking about it means that you're not. ...You may know one person who committed suicide, but you don't speak for everyone. Hey, yeah, let's dismiss the bejesus out of that, clearly they just want attention. That is a good way to end up with a lot of dead people. Anyway, message received, I'll stop talking about it if people stop talking about it to me. Fair enough?
Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:11 PM
Quote: You're deep....
Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:44 PM
Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:07 PM
Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:54 PM
Friday, June 1, 2012 6:46 AM
Saturday, June 2, 2012 5:08 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: I am sorry about your three losses. I didn't mean to diminish that. It's just, I'm not deep, or any of the number of other things you just said. You just don't know me.
Saturday, June 2, 2012 7:11 PM
Saturday, June 2, 2012 10:04 PM
Sunday, June 3, 2012 3:32 PM
Sunday, June 3, 2012 6:34 PM
Quote: Oh yes, but I REFUSE to let that stop me - it's prettymuch the masochism part of my Sadomasochism, really.
Monday, June 4, 2012 7:56 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote: People with all their vaunted intelligence follow the drives implanted by evolution. We act a lot more like animals and not very much like the sapiens we call ourselves.
Quote: A long time ago someone mentioned this idea to me - we'll never be able to live in space. People are so exquisitely adapted to their environment that we'll never be able to reproduce it in every necessary detail. It's really stuck with me. As we find out more each year about what people really need in order to be well-nourished it drives home even deeper that we can't keep the planet well-nourished through agri-business-as-usual.
Monday, June 4, 2012 8:11 AM
Monday, June 4, 2012 2:05 PM
Tuesday, June 5, 2012 7:06 PM
Wednesday, June 6, 2012 4:02 AM
Wednesday, June 6, 2012 4:19 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: I live on caffeine and gluten. Sometimes there are beans. I'm usually hungry, but I can't taste anything anyway, so it doesn't matter to me. The caffeine makes my heart race, but I'm always tired, so I need it.
Wednesday, June 6, 2012 7:43 PM
Thursday, June 7, 2012 5:19 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: don't taste anything, doesn't matter to me.
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