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Merck back up to it's old tricks.

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Saturday, July 25, 2009 18:14
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Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:18 AM

FREMDFIRMA



I see their bloody grasping hands behind this one.

Health Care Bill Will Fund State Vaccine Teams to Conduct ‘Interventions’ in Private Homes
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=51115

"In March of this year, the Washington Post reported about the controversy sparked when the Merck pharmaceutical company campaigned to have states mandate that school girls receive Gardasil, its vaccine against HPV.

“Merck also began an ambitious marketing campaign and lobbying push to persuade states to add the vaccine to the list of those required for children to attend school,” reported the Post. “But the company eventually abandoned the strategy in the face of an intense backlash from critics who argued that the decision should be left to parents. Although many states considered such mandates, so far only Virginia and the District have imposed one, and [a Merck official] said the company has no plans to pursue that strategy again."

The Post's report noted that at least some experts questioned the wisdom of promoting use of the vaccine when its long term impact is still unknown."


And still, they call it safe.

47 Confirmed deaths.
142 Life threatening injuries.
1061 Serious complications.
13000+ Adverse reactions.

And personal followup indicates many of those who developed the GBS symptoms subsequently died, it progressed into fatality in every case I've been able to follow up so far.

All for a "Vaccine" which doesn't even have enough utility to justify the inherent risks in the first place.

And don't even get me started on Baxters new and even more dangerous Swine Flu vaccine, especially in light of some very real suspicions confirmed by hard evidence that this current strain of Swine Flu was in fact manufactured and deliberately wilded by them.

Taking ANY medication with side effects and dangers is an issue of personal risk management, dependent on properly informed choice, and it's bad enough that lies and distortions are common - to add coercion to the process is not only unethical, but greases a slope you do NOT want to be sliding down in the future.

And I am very, very upset about it right now, since one of my nieces has been diagnosed with GBS and inoperable cancer, the onset of which coincides with her recieving Gardasil despite my recommendations against it even then.

She's got maybe two months, if she's lucky - and being completely unable to do anything but watch is...
There ain't no words for it, really.

All I have left is being thankful that the youngest did listen to me about it, but it's a cold damn comfort, folks.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:53 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
... And I am very, very upset about it right now, since one of my nieces has been diagnosed with GBS and inoperable cancer, the onset of which coincides with her recieving Gardasil despite my recommendations against it even then.

She's got maybe two months, if she's lucky - and being completely unable to do anything but watch is...
There ain't no words for it, really.



My sympathies, Frem. If there's any feeling lower than feeling helpless on someone else's behalf, I can't think think of it offhand.



donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

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Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:24 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Ni hao , Frem...

This really belongs with your post about Baxter , and the Swine Flu vaccines , but I don't have time to find that one just now .

Check out this Link , and the 60 Minutes Video available at the site :

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14433

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mh9f_swine-flu-1976-propaganda_webc
am

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Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA


You probably mean these threads.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=38000

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=38015

And if you ain't read the second one, you ought to.
Cause I happen to have called in advance how it will probably go, and just how it *could* go...

-F

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Sunday, July 19, 2009 7:21 AM

FREMDFIRMA


*insert epic F-bombery here*

I HATE being right.
Quote:

WHAT'S COMING ?

8. The involved companies are going to demand lawsuit immunity before handing over the goods, JUST like they did in 1976, you just watch.

9. Politicians are gonna push "mandatory" vaccinations with this stuff, that's almost a given.

10. The FDA is gonna play very fast and loose with the approval process, resulting in even more of a token effort than Gardasil got.


Called it right on schedule, I did.

Legal Immunity Set For Swine Flu Vaccine Makers
http://www.clickondetroit.com/health/20088640/detail.html

AND info that I cannot share has crossed my desk advising me that Sep-Oct-Nov, some shit is *really* gonna hit the fan.

For the love of all that's good and decent in the world, don't play ball - we cannot afford it anymore.

So far all but one of these so-called Vaccines is five to ten times MORE lethal than what they purport to protect against, and there's very little evidence that they even work!

The sole product that *might* be safe is manufactured by some podunk Aussie company, but good luck getting your hands on any what with big pharma legally and politically roadblocking them.

For a fact, I am pretty damn distraught about this, watching one of my own slowly die in about as horrible a fashion as one could imagine, cause she did not listen when it counted....
And I just can not bear the thought of adding more needless casualties in a time when faith in medical care itself is becoming so strained due to the actions of the establishment running it.

As much as I fear the abuse and the damage, I also fear that the backlash from it could turn many against even the concept of medical care, resulting in death and injury from treatable conditions because their faith in medicine has been all but destroyed thanks to one too many abuses.

And trusting in Government to fix it, given that they are in great part the folk who created this problem on us, is a losing proposition at best - one that yes, we could SLOWLY lose, while building something hopefully better (one poison as antidote to the other) but that is not a long term sustainable concept.

We MUST break away from the systems in order to actually solve this problem - I just hope we can do so in time.

That said - see to your own, make sure of your emergency preparations and stocks before late September, even if you distrust all that I say, it cannot *harm* you to be prepared, can it ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:23 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
You probably mean these threads.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=38000

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=38015

And if you ain't read the second one, you ought to.
Cause I happen to have called in advance how it will probably go, and just how it *could* go...

-F



Thanks for bringing these back to the fore...

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Friday, July 24, 2009 12:44 PM

FREMDFIRMA



And they just don't give up, do they...

RDR: Looking at the swine flu vaccine with a skeptical eye
http://www.reddirtreport.com/news.php?id=11938

It's never a comfort being right, when the stuff you're right about is so bloody awful.

-F

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Friday, July 24, 2009 2:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Frem, this is the first I've been in this thread. I never know what to say to someone in your shoes. "It's tough", "My sympathies" just don't seem enough. So even tho I'm tongue-tied about these kinds of things, just know that my heart and thoughts are with you and your niece.

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Friday, July 24, 2009 5:44 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Sad to say, except for those of use who truly don't care about anyone, this is the human condition.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 4:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Thanks,
I don't have the words either, but it does mean something...

What I hope, what I NEED to find, most desperately, is either a case where the GBS was treated with improvement, or at least survived - or barring that, the exact mechanics behind WHY some folk die because of this, how are they different than those who did not, what IS the factor ?

Only in knowing this will we have peace, and I will hold out hope till the very last moment cause I just don't have it in me to give up.

It doesn't help that I have no medical or scientific education in that respect and only a laymans understanding of how this stuff works, especially given a lack of support or downright roadblocking from a system that doesn't want to admit the problem.

I don't have as much issue with the concept of vaccination as I do the idea that it's somehow okay if we lose people to it, I am not okay with that, I CAN'T be okay with that, especially now.

You can't really imagine the pain it caused when she cried on my shoulder and apologized for not believing me, the horrible, sinking feeling of having so completely failed her - the thought that somehow if I had just been more convincing, if I had just found a way to make her listen...

All I can do is all that I can do, but it doesn't make the hurt any less, it's the price of our humanity, the power to love, to care, comes with it the ability to hurt - and to banish the latter requires discarding the former, which lessens us all.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:27 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:


I don't have as much issue with the concept of vaccination as I do the idea that it's somehow okay if we lose people to it, I am not okay with that, I CAN'T be okay with that, especially now.

You can't really imagine the pain it caused when she cried on my shoulder and apologized for not believing me, the horrible, sinking feeling of having so completely failed her - the thought that somehow if I had just been more convincing, if I had just found a way to make her listen...

All I can do is all that I can do, but it doesn't make the hurt any less, it's the price of our humanity, the power to love, to care, comes with it the ability to hurt - and to banish the latter requires discarding the former, which lessens us all.

-Frem



You'd be surprised at the pain I can imagine...

Folk might also be surprised at how frequently people present with compromised immune-system function after having taken flu shots...

I lost someone for that very reason .

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 8:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

GBS was treated with improvement, or at least survived - or barring that, the exact mechanics behind WHY some folk die because of this, how are they different than those who did not, what IS the factor ?
Frem, I PERSONALLY know people who recovered from Guillain-Barre Syndrome. One recovered on his own, since his case was limited to the legs (didn't ascend further). The other required tracheotomy and plasmapheresis. The key to survival, in my experience, is good supportive care including being placed on a respirator if necessary, and "cleaning up" the blood with plasmapheresis to remove excess immunoglobulins. AFAIK GBS should be eminently treatable.

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 8:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It is a seldom understood fact that any law, any type of rule which is rendered mandatory by the government has the net effect of reducing overall freedom. The first and most valid question that should be asked when enacting any new law or mandate is, "Is the loss of freedom created by this law, and the consequences of that loss of freedom, overwhelmingly counterbalanced by the safety needs of society at large?"

Or, to put it more clearly, "Is the well being of all people directly and vitally threatened if this limitation of freedom is not enacted?"

In the case of a vaccine, the answer is always no. I say this unequivocably. This is because persons treated by a vaccine create for themselves a personal risk of side effects, and personal benefit of immunity. Persons not treated by the vaccine create for themselves a personal risk of illness and personal benefit of lack of side effects.

Neither group infringes on the safety of the other group. Hence, the well being of all people is not directly affected by the limitation of freedom created by a mandatory vaccine. The conclusion is that no mandate is necessary. Each person can perform their own cost/benefit analysis. The only role of government here should be to force total disclosure of the product by the manufacturer and distributor of that product. It is up to the individual to study that disclosure and reach conclusions about how they wish to proceed.

In general, I am against product safety regulations that require anything beyond full disclosure.

I am absolutely against telling people that they must take one particular medicine, or that they must not take another. In almost all cases, the choice to take a medicine is a cost/benefit equation best left to the adult-minded individual.

A rare exception would be an instance where a particular medicine turned someone into a homicidal killing machine that would seek to slay everyone within arm's reach. This is the kind of extraordinary exception it would take for me to mandate anything about a medication. Even if a medicine had the effect of turning its consumers suicidal, this is still a personal cost/benefit analysis, and government's only role should be to enforce disclosure.

I can imagine nothing more invasive than mandating that people be forced to put a drug into their bodies. This is in principle equivelant to raping them.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Unlike smallpox or polio, the human papilloma virus which causes cervical cancer is not- NOT- casually transmitted. It makes no sense to require vaccination for a disease which does not threaten the general population, and for which other means of prevention are easily available (eg condoms). That would make as little sense as requiring a vaccination for AIDS.

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:14 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Nowhere in the article did it mention that the vaccines were mandatory, or that anyone would be forced to submit to vaccination. The outreach, as far as I can see, it to make vaccination extremely convenient and cheap for those who wish vaccination. Anything else is hyperbole.

BTW, the only kind of disease one can have a prayer of eliminating are those that have no natural reservoir. If you add 'hard to spread' as a characteristic it becomes more likely that the disease could be wiped off the face of the planet. Sexually transmitted diseases are exactly in that category.

Before ANYONE makes a decision to either try to wipe out a disease or to leave it to spread, the possibility of a disease free-population, the potential to achieve that end, the associated costs, and the desirability of that goal v the pain of the costs incurred (and that means social costs as well as monetary ones) is a question that needs serious discussion.

But that is exactly the kind of social decision a society should be able to make for itself.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Nowhere in the article did it mention that the vaccines were mandatory, or that anyone would be forced to submit to vaccination. The outreach, as far as I can see, it to make vaccination extremely convenient and cheap for those who wish vaccination. Anything else is hyperbole.

I call bullshit on that.

In fact, I flat call you a liar about it.

Merck ending lobbying for mandatory Gardasil vaccine
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN2022501520070221

Making Gardasil Vaccination Mandatory Would Be Unwise, Academics Say
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/11/11/making-gardasil-vaccination-man
datory-would-be-unwise-academics-say
/

Efforts to Make Gardasil Mandatory Stall in Some States
http://www.thenhf.com/vaccinations/vaccinations_183.htm

And here is an EXTREMELY detailed breakdown of various state efforts to make said vaccine mandatory, from the National Conference of State Legislatures.
http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/Health/HPVVaccineStateLegislation/t
abid/14381/Default.aspx


And Judicial Watch's rather thorough investigation of the matter.
http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/Health/HPVVaccineStateLegislation/t
abid/14381/Default.aspx


You knew this, in fact you spent a good bit of time and effort flaming me when I expressed suspicion of Gardasils safety/effectiveness and Mercks motives for attempting to saturate the market as quickly as possible - suspicions that turned out to be extremely justified despite being dismissed at the time, in part by you.

And for you to sit there on the other side of the screen and utter such a demonstrable fiction you knew full and well to be untrue when you typed it is both offensive and insulting to a degree that I have trouble finding words to express right now.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:22 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Nowhere in the article you cited is there ANY mention of forcing vaccines on anyone. Ever. Anywhere. The legislation is about making vaccination - ANY vaccination - convenient and cheap. Anything else IS hyperbole.

"... you spent a good bit of time and effort flaming me when I expressed suspicion of Gardasils safety/effectiveness and Mercks motives for attempting to saturate the market as quickly as possible ..."

Actually, I did not. Very specifically about Gardasil, I did not. I have said several times that during the last 8 years I have been suspicious of studies and programs about drugs (statins) and vaccines that have come out of the Bush admninistration. I have very specifically said that I thought it was about shovelling money toward business, public and personal health be damned.

That is separate and distinct from any debate I've had with CTS about the polio, tetanus, and other vaccinations with a long history of benefits.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh, and as for specifically making "swine flu" or another other flu vacc 'mandatory' - not only are health officials discussing that (of course, with big pharma execs no doubt gleefully rubbing their hands at the idea of lawsuit-free profit) on a current basis, there's quite a few precedents of that garbage around if one cares to look.

Case in point.
N.J. parents protest mandatory flu shots for preschoolers
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2008/10/nj_parents_protest_
mandatory_f.html


They're GOING to try this, sure as day follows dawn, and for once it might do folk some good to give some credence to what the hell I happen to be saying.

-F

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:27 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


If enough people are against this, it is time for democracy in action.

But I would HOPE that the discussion is based on FACTS and not emotion.

Here, have a hypothetical: scientists devise a momentum-conserving device that boosts vehicle mileage to 70 mpg. Oil companies start a campaign calling the technology unproven and the device unsafe. Citing all sorts of hypotheticals, and in contradiction to actual engineering calculations and extensive testing, they rally a small but vocal population to demand the device be banned from public streets as a public menace. As a result, society as a whole loses out on a major benefit, because of a flawed decision process which credits loud emotion more than sound policy. That is the thing one should hope to avoid.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 5:13 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Nowhere in the article you cited is there ANY mention of forcing vaccines on anyone. Ever. Anywhere. The legislation is about making vaccination - ANY vaccination - convenient and cheap. Anything else IS hyperbole.

"... you spent a good bit of time and effort flaming me when I expressed suspicion of Gardasils safety/effectiveness and Mercks motives for attempting to saturate the market as quickly as possible ..."

Actually, I did not. Very specifically about Gardasil, I did not. I have said several times that during the last 8 years I have been suspicious of studies and programs about drugs (statins) and vaccines that have come out of the Bush admninistration. I have very specifically said that I thought it was about shovelling money toward business, public and personal health be damned.

That is separate and distinct from any debate I've had with CTS about the polio, tetanus, and other vaccinations with a long history of benefits.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.




Actually, Rue, one of those articles cited by Frem (the one from the National Council of State Legislatures) has THIS to say about "forcing vaccines on anyone":

Quote:

The Michigan Senate was the first to introduce legislation (S.B. 1416) in September of 2006 to require the HPV vaccine for girls entering sixth grade, but the bill was not enacted. Ohio also considered legislation in late 2006 to require the vaccine (H.B. 703), which also failed. Legislators in at least 41 states and D.C. have introduced legislation to require, fund or educate the public about the HPV Vaccine and at least 19 states have enacted this legislation, including Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Washington. The CDC announced that The New Hampshire Health Department announced in 2006 that it will provide the vaccine at no cost to girls under age 18. As of May 2007, the department reports they have distributed over 14,000 doses in the state.


So at the very least many, many states have TRIED to require such HPV vaccinations, at least for girls who want to go to school. I guess you can't say they're "forcing" the vaccines on anyone, as long as they don't actually plan on attending school in those states...




Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:14 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
If enough people are against this, it is time for democracy in action.

But I would HOPE that the discussion is based on FACTS and not emotion.

Here, have a hypothetical: scientists devise a momentum-conserving device that boosts vehicle mileage to 70 mpg. Oil companies start a campaign calling the technology unproven and the device unsafe. Citing all sorts of hypotheticals, and in contradiction to actual engineering calculations and extensive testing, they rally a small but vocal population to demand the device be banned from public streets as a public menace. As a result, society as a whole loses out on a major benefit, because of a flawed decision process which credits loud emotion more than sound policy. That is the thing one should hope to avoid.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.




Hello,

Banning a thing is very much the same error of control that mandating a thing is. They both rob freedom, and I would need some spectacular evidence of definite public danger before I could get behind either concept.

For instance, one could argue that substance X will cause Cancer in users of said substance, but I would not want to ban it. I'd rather want to label it.

If substance X caused the death of people in neighboring houses, who had no ability to consent, only then would I regulate its use.

Proposed bans on cigarette smoking fall into the unnecessary legislation category for me. It's one thing to say you can't smoke next to me on a shared enclosure. It is quite another to say that you can't smoke at all. I don't care one whit whether you want to inflict yourself with cancer or not. The danger of me getting cancer by catching a whiff outdoors is minimal. No one should force themselves into other people's lives if it can at all be avoided.

The effort should always be to ensure maximum levels of freedom. The maximum possible freedom that can be maintained while allowing society to function.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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