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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Immigration nation
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:45 AM
RUE
I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:20 PM
FLETCH2
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: You have a very basic contradiction within your own reasoning. On the one hand, you say that we need immigrant labor because otherwise cheap foreign labor will out-compete us. On the other hand, you say that no Americans will lose any jobs because of cheap immigrant labor. You can't have it both ways. Either cheap labor is a threat or it is not.
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:29 PM
OLDENGLANDDRY
Quote:Originally posted by piratenews: Illegal aliens murder dozens of US citizens every day in USA. I agree 100% with Alex Jones today. Send all soldiers to the borders and massacre all illegal aliens with helicopter gunships. THAT'S what the military is for, not slaughtering 2.5-million innocent folks in Iraq who never invaded USA. Then arrest all employers, landlords and banksters of illegal aliens, and seize their assets. Mexico invaded USA in both World War 1 and World War 2 to support the Germans, in the Plan of San Diego. THIS IS WAR!!! www.vdare.com/Sailer/060129_sandiego.htm www.infowars.com/articles/immigration/deisyseis_partone.htm "You can't stop the signal!" -Mr Universe, Pirate TV FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2 Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation https://video.indymedia.org/en/2007/02/716.shtml http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=8cd2bd0379340120e7a6ed00f2a53ee5.1044556 www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv DRIVE BY MIND CONTROL: FREE TV EPISODES ONLINE www.myspace.com/driveonfox Does that seem right to you? www.scifi.com/onair/
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:37 PM
BIGDAMNNOBODY
Quote:Originally posted by rue: And somehow you missed ALL the undeserved snipes Fletch2 was making all along - like these: Would be nice if you would stay on topic. I think my understanding of economics is actually ahead of yours I find opening my mouth to speak is better than mumbling through clenched teeth, which I suspect you do a lot. So your "observation" proves nothing, unless you stopped and asked her which of course you didn't because that would mean you'd have to treat her as a person and not a political football. Now how did that happen?
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by rue: And somehow you missed ALL the undeserved snipes Fletch2 was making all along - like these: Would be nice if you would stay on topic.
Quote: I think my understanding of economics is actually ahead of yours
Quote: There are so many excpetions to this statement - both specific and theoretical- that I think you should go back and REALLY study economics, and not the gobbledy-gook that someone filled your head with.
Quote: I find opening my mouth to speak is better than mumbling through clenched teeth, which I suspect you do a lot.
Quote: Except illegal aliens, who ride the bus. You're sort of arguing out of both sides of your mouth.
Quote: So your "observation" proves nothing, unless you stopped and asked her which of course you didn't because that would mean you'd have to treat her as a person and not a political football.
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:54 PM
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:02 PM
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:11 PM
KANEMAN
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:12 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BigDamnNobody: Context Rue. What about all the other posts between the two? You can't just go through the posts and pick out the stuff you want and pronunce "HA! I'm right and you're all wrong".
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 2:14 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 2:16 PM
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 2:42 PM
Quote: Fletch, apparently you did not see my previous post. so here it is....
Quote: I'm trying to have a decent conversation here. My point about expensive transport was humor. But you will not respond to the more theoretical portion of my post. Why is that?
Quote: WOW. I looked back on my posts and i KNOW I didn't deserve anything like this!
Quote: Helloooo? Anti, are you home?
Quote: I assume Geezer is too busy to reply to my post.
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 5:11 PM
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:34 PM
Quote: If all of the species' archetypes were present to begin with and there was a massive flood, what you would expect to find is a large layer, rather uniform, with fossils of all types jumbled together. And yet clearly, there are a lot of "archetypes" missing from the earlier sediment layers followed by other layers which contain other kinds of fossils. You would have to somehow account for the fact that many archetypes are separated from each other by sediment layers that would have taken hundreds of thousands to millions of years to lay down.
Quote: I don't doubt the basic sciences
Quote:In this method, a series of questions are posed to help a person or group to determine their underlying beliefs and the extent of their knowledge. The Socratic method is a negative method of hypothesis elimination, in that better hypotheses are found by steadily identifying and eliminating those which lead to contradictions. It was designed to force one to examine one's own beliefs and the validity of such beliefs. In fact, Socrates once said, "I know you won't believe me, but the highest form of Human Excellence is to question oneself and others."
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:09 PM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:37 AM
Quote:You haven't been able to show one contradiction.
Quote:You say that cheap labor isn't a threat, and then you point out the threat of cheap foreign labor. You say that maximal profit isn't the driving force, and then you come up with a prime example. You say that laborers can afford their own products, and then you turn around and immediately point out that they can't.
Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:55 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:37 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:43 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: It occurs to me that the problem is that we're discussing something in words that needs math. So, let's look at your proposition: Profit= sale price - labor cost - material cost Mathematically rearranging: Labor cost = Sale price- Profit- Material cost In other words, wages are always less than the amount it would take to buy the product, whether we're talking about a closed system (bowling ball workers trying to buy a shift's worth of bowling balls with a shift's worth of wages) or the entire world. While it is possible to have one group produce, and another consume, in the end when you total it all up workers cannot buy back what they've produced. So the key question is: what happens with the Profit? (I could go into detail about material costs but they are, in the end, labor costs.) --------------------------------- Always look upstream.
Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:23 AM
RAZZA
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: ...In other words, wages are always less than the amount it would take to buy the product, whether we're talking about a closed system (bowling ball workers trying to buy a shift's worth of bowling balls with a shift's worth of wages) or the entire world. While it is possible to have one group produce, and another consume, in the end when you total it all up workers cannot buy back what they've produced...
Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Fletch2: He's the thing. We live in a world where there is real slavery. Where a girl can be snatched off a farm in Romania and end up in a brothel in Nice. Someone who didn't decide to leave her home did not chose the work she does, gains nothing from it and will be killed or injured if she refuses. By contrast most US illegals came here of their own free will, made the journey under their own power, found their own employment and can leave it at any time. And we find that SigNY resents them for taking American jobs and you do it because they are being used by the man. Unless you are 100% native American your ancestors made the same choices these guys did. They probably had the same hardship getting here and may even have lived 15 to a room while they got a start. And yes that means they were probably exploited by those capitalists along the way. You know what? The illegals today and your ancestors back then shared one thing, they both thought themselves better off in America doing shitty jobs than being back where they came from.
Quote:Originally posted by Fletch2: In your world the choice is between hiring an illegal at $3/hr and paying an American $8/hr. That's actually a false choice. In truth the industry could not pay $8/hr and remain competative with imports at $3/hr. If the immigrants went the work would go abroad. In work that produces movable product the $8/hr American worker loses nothing to the $3/hr illegal because he would never be offered that job anyway, it would go abroad to a producer with a lower cost base. There are industries like construction and some services, work that has to be done at a fixed local or where the product isnt movable where you could easily replace illegals with better paid Americans but profits are unlikely to fall instead the costs would be passed to the end customer.
Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:00 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:01 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:22 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:32 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:34 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:45 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Razza: Quote: I have to wonder though if that economic benefit outweighs the ancillary costs incurred as a result of the illegal labor being present. We hear anectdotes of hospital emergency rooms closing, schools being overwhelmed with the children of illegals, insurance costs rising, and many others. Couple these costs with the fact that many illegals send a large part of their income back home to their native country and you have to ask, are these local economic boosts resulting from their presence worth it? I don't know the answer to tell you the truth and I think it would be very difficult to quantify either the benefits or the costs. Your thoughts? ----------------- "There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration." ---Andrew Carnegie "Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly." ---Roger Ebert
Quote: I have to wonder though if that economic benefit outweighs the ancillary costs incurred as a result of the illegal labor being present. We hear anectdotes of hospital emergency rooms closing, schools being overwhelmed with the children of illegals, insurance costs rising, and many others. Couple these costs with the fact that many illegals send a large part of their income back home to their native country and you have to ask, are these local economic boosts resulting from their presence worth it? I don't know the answer to tell you the truth and I think it would be very difficult to quantify either the benefits or the costs. Your thoughts? ----------------- "There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration." ---Andrew Carnegie "Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly." ---Roger Ebert
Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:28 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:30 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:50 AM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Siggy, there is a village in Texas that needs an idiot...You should go there.
Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:13 PM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:43 PM
KHYRON
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: The American Indian has learned all to well what happens when you don't control immigration
Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by rue: It's probably Crawford. Don't worry, they'll get him back soon.Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Siggy, there is a village in Texas that needs an idiot...You should go there. *************************************************************** "Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:44 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Khyron: Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: The American Indian has learned all to well what happens when you don't control immigrationLol! Nice one, KM. Questions are a burden to others. Answers are prison for oneself.
Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:49 PM
DRAGONWINE
Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:24 PM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Quote: VIDEO: Jewish Lawyers Teach How To NOT Hire An American citizen in USA www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/6/18/22435/0365 Quote:"Our goal is clearly NOT to find a qualified U.S. worker. Our objective is to get this person a green card. So certainly we are not going to try to find a place where applicants would be most numerous." -Lawrence M. Lebowitz, Vice President of Marketing, Cohen & Grigsby It's on video, believe it or not, and even presented as a selling point to peddle their services by Cohen & Grigsby Law Firm. That's right, this group of attorneys put an entire seminar on how to screw over the American worker on YouTube. Imagine that, a seminar from lawyers on how to make sure one doesn't have to hire an American worker! In the video attorneys explain how they assist employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and how they disqualify even the most qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for H-1b workers.
Quote:"Our goal is clearly NOT to find a qualified U.S. worker. Our objective is to get this person a green card. So certainly we are not going to try to find a place where applicants would be most numerous." -Lawrence M. Lebowitz, Vice President of Marketing, Cohen & Grigsby
Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:25 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: This is one place where my liberal friends and I part company. The only "reform" that our immigration laws need is to drop the allowance that children born in the USA are automatically citizens.... the "anchor baby" provision. IMHO, only children born to USA citizens should be citizens. I would be willing to trade THAT for amnesty, but not anything else. The current proposal is so unworkable that it is no solution at all.... it's main purpose is to muddy the illegal status of people working in the USA.
Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:28 PM
Quote:Originally posted by piratenews: Will this treason change, before its too late? Is it already too late?
Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:31 PM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:35 PM
Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:59 PM
LEADB
Quote:Originally posted by piratenews: Get out your pitchforks, tar and feathers: Quote: VIDEO: Jewish Lawyers Teach How To NOT Hire An American citizen in USA www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/6/18/22435/0365
Quote: VIDEO: Jewish Lawyers Teach How To NOT Hire An American citizen in USA www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/6/18/22435/0365
Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:37 PM
Quote:Originally posted by piratenews: If it's already too late, that just means the Revolutionary fun is starting...
Friday, June 22, 2007 4:15 AM
Friday, June 22, 2007 7:05 AM
Friday, June 22, 2007 12:35 PM
Quote:Originally posted by piratenews: Note that Comedy Central's Jewish superstar Jon Stewart's real name is Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_stewart
Friday, June 22, 2007 8:53 PM
REAVERMAN
Quote:"Stewart" is well-paid to NOT talk about serious topics, but to joke about them instead, or censor them altogether
Quote: (such as NeoCon Jews perping the 9/11 Massacres to blame the Arabs)
Quote: Why is it most "Jews" have zero loyalty to USA or the constitution
Quote:Socialist is defined as the Nazi National Socialst Party.
Quote:Mexican illegal aliens are often Communists, and prefer the Commie "red fist" logo or Marx/Lenin/Trotsky photos on signs...
Friday, June 22, 2007 9:05 PM
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