REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

human actions, global climate change, global human solutions

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Thursday, October 31, 2024 14:25
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Saturday, September 2, 2023 2:37 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

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Saturday, September 2, 2023 3:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Facts can be stubborn things. Facts are not swayed by political hype.


https://heartland.org/opinion/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-cl
imate-emergency/

https://www.ntd.com/over-1600-scientists-sign-no-climate-emergency-dec
laration_938916.html

There's a difference between a climate emergency/crisis and a climate shift. The difference is time frame. I don't buy the idea that we have a crisis at hand that will require draconian action by TPTB. OTOH I accept it as fact that the climate is indeed changing, and that we should mitigate what we can (eg, eliminate our world-straddling military, ban private jets, plant more urban trees, manage our forests better, incentivize agricultural and ranching practices to store more carbon in the soil, solarize in sunshine states, supplement with wind power in windy states etc.) and adapt where we can't (create north-south corridors for species migration, pre-plant long-lived species like trees for pre-adaptation, manage ocean preserves and land reservations to maintain biodiversity, etc.)

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, September 2, 2023 4:43 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Facts can be stubborn things. Facts are not swayed by political hype.


https://heartland.org/opinion/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-cl
imate-emergency/

https://www.ntd.com/over-1600-scientists-sign-no-climate-emergency-dec
laration_938916.html

There's a difference between a climate emergency/crisis and a climate shift. The difference is time frame. I don't buy the idea that we have a crisis at hand that will require draconian action by TPTB. OTOH I accept it as fact that the climate is indeed changing, and that we should mitigate what we can (eg, eliminate our world-straddling military, ban private jets, plant more urban trees, manage our forests better, incentivize agricultural and ranching practices to store more carbon in the soil, solarize in sunshine states, supplement with wind power in windy states etc.) and adapt where we can't (create north-south corridors for species migration, pre-plant long-lived species like trees for pre-adaptation, manage ocean preserves and land reservations to maintain biodiversity, etc.)

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
From what I can tell, you have been advocating shifting all prosperity to the planet's greatest polluters: China, India, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Ethanol Industry aka Big Ethanol.
Not sure if that is because you want humans to perish, or only just Americans.

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Saturday, September 2, 2023 6:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Facts can be stubborn things. Facts are not swayed by political hype.
https://heartland.org/opinion/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-cl
imate-emergency/

https://www.ntd.com/over-1600-scientists-sign-no-climate-emergency-dec
laration_938916.html

SIGNY: There's a difference between a climate emergency/crisis and a climate shift. The difference is time frame. I don't buy the idea that we have a crisis at hand that will require draconian action by TPTB. OTOH I accept it as fact that the climate is indeed changing, and that we should mitigate what we can (eg, eliminate our world-straddling military, ban private jets, plant more urban trees, manage our forests better, incentivize agricultural and ranching practices to store more carbon in the soil, solarize in sunshine states, supplement with wind power in windy states etc.) and adapt where we can't (create north-south corridors for species migration, pre-plant long-lived species like trees for pre-adaptation, manage ocean preserves and land reservations to maintain biodiversity, etc.)

JSF: From what I can tell, you have been advocating shifting all prosperity to the planet's greatest polluters: China, India, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Ethanol Industry aka Big Ethanol.
Not sure if that is because you want humans to perish, or only just Americans.


How is that?
Who will get poorer if we ban private jets?
Who will get poorer if we pay people to hand-thin forests? Seems like that would be a job opportunity.
Who will get poorer if we pay ranchers to practice management intensive grazing (which requires more ranch-hands) and farmers to plant cover crops? The farmers? The ranch hands and ranchers?
Who will get poorer if we solarize where practical? Son, WE have solar panels and they've saved us a fuck-ton of $$$!
Who will get poorer if we install wind-turbines where practical?
Who will get poorer if we improve the efficiency and robust of our grid?
Who will get poorer if we dismantle our world-straddling empire and stop running up the deficit, or re-allocate the $$$ to other job-creating projects (like those above).

We don't need to compete with the Chinese for the smallest bowl of rice. That's not the way to wealth.

We must have very different ideas of wealth, so please enlighten me how you see this being a problem.



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Wednesday, September 6, 2023 5:56 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Betting against worst-case climate scenarios is risky business

By David Spratt | September 4, 2023

Scientific observations and data from around the globe show that many of the changes that scientists thought would occur later this century are already here, ahead of schedule.

Many current changes are at the upper limit of scientific projections, and sometimes beyond them. Other events, including sea-surface warming in the North Atlantic and the eye-watering decline of sea-ice around Antarctica, have simply astounded scientists.

The International Monetary Fund notes a growing agreement between economists and scientists that “risk of catastrophic and irreversible disaster is rising, implying potentially infinite costs of unmitigated climate change, including, in the extreme, human extinction.” And a 2020 report concludes that exceeding climate tipping points “could lead to catastrophic and irreversible impacts that would make quantifying financial damages impossible” (emphasis added).

In other words, we cannot put a dollar figure on how much damage climate disruption will cause at the levels of warming towards which we are now heading. It is a case of “deep uncertainty” which occurs when decision makers and stakeholders do not know or cannot agree on the likelihood of different future scenarios.

Writing about the “climate endgame,” Luke Kemp from Cambridge’s Centre for the Study of Existential Risk and his colleagues agree that “prudent risk management requires consideration of the bad-to-worst-case scenarios” because low-probability, high-impact extreme outcomes have damages so large as to perhaps be unquantifiable. They say that large uncertainties about dangerous surprises “are reasons to prioritize rather than neglect them.”

But this is what the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and climate research and risk managers in the financial system have overwhelmingly not done.

Policy makers and global leaders seem not to recognize that when risks are existential, a bad outcome means the future is unrecognizably different from before. By downplaying the high-risk possibilities, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and others are foolishly conducting a dangerously unprecedented experiment: how much heat—how much change—can human systems tolerate before society collapses?

More at https://thebulletin.org/2023/09/betting-against-worst-case-climate-sce
narios-is-risky-business/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Why the United States undercounts climate-driven deaths

"The system of death surveillance wasn’t designed for a climate-changed world."

Every week between May and October, the Maricopa County Department of Public Health in Arizona releases a heat morbidity report. The most recent report said that 180 people have succumbed to heat-associated illness in the county this year so far. But everyone agrees that number is off.

If previous years are any indication, the true number of heat-related deaths in Maricopa County, which includes Phoenix, is much higher: At the end of last summer, the county revised its initial reports upwards by a factor of five, ultimately reporting a sobering 425 heat-related deaths in total.

This lag plagues not just heat-related mortality reporting, but climate-related death data in general. It’s hard to get a full picture of the true number of mortalities connected to a given disaster in real-time. The full death toll often isn’t revealed until weeks, months, even years after the event occurs. And an unknown fraction of deaths often slide by undetected, never making it onto local and federal mortality spreadsheets at all. For example, a recent retrospective study found the number of people who died from exposure to hurricanes and tropical cyclones in the U.S. in the years between 1988 to 2019 was 13 times higher than the federal government’s official estimates.

That study and others like it indicate that the U.S. is gravely underestimating the health impacts of climate change. “The system of death surveillance wasn’t designed for a climate-changed world,” said Robbie Parks, who coauthored the study on hurricane-related mortalities and works as a researcher at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health.

https://grist.org/health/why-the-united-states-undercounts-climate-dri
ven-deaths/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, September 9, 2023 7:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Just about every country in the world is committed to keeping climate change in check. This week, the United Nations issued its first report card for this goal and found that the world is falling behind while time is running out.

Under the 2015 Paris climate agreement, countries agreed to pitch in what they could to slash greenhouse gas emissions. Their initial proposals were nowhere near enough, so the accord created a mechanism called the global stocktake to keep everyone accountable.

Unlike other UN climate change reports that are meant to be informative and shy away from policy recommendations, the stocktake is explicitly meant to spur countries to act. It’s a blunt progress assessment, and it lays out how much further countries must go in their emissions commitments the next time they come to the negotiating table at COP28, which will be held in the United Arab Emirates this December.

“The Paris Agreement has driven near-universal climate action,” the report notes, but “much more is needed now on all fronts.”

The task ahead is immense: According to the report, global emissions need to be slashed 43 percent by 2030 to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius, one of the main goalposts of the Paris agreement. But the world has already warmed about 1.2 degrees so far above preindustrial averages and is on track to pass the key threshold in the next few years. So when negotiators reconvene at the next climate summit, the stocktake will shape the discussion.

“It carries a lot of weight,” said European Climate Foundation CEO Laurence Tubiana, who helped negotiate the Paris agreement. “The [stocktake] is looking backwards, but even more importantly setting the direction for the next phase of climate policymaking.”

Among its recommendations, the report unapologetically calls for “phasing out all unabated fossil fuels” and for a “radical decarbonization of all sectors of the economy.”

But in a world facing economic turmoil, energy shocks, and unrelenting opposition from the biggest polluters, there are open questions about whether leaders will heed the message at all, and what they’ll actually do about it.

Coal, oil, and natural gas need to go.

More at https://www.vox.com/climate/23864312/climate-change-stocktake-cop28-du
bai

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 10, 2023 3:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


dbl

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Friday, September 15, 2023 12:21 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Trump wrote: "Shawn Fain, the respected President of the United Auto Workers, cannot even think about allowing ALL ELECTRIC CARS - THEY WILL ALL BE MADE IN CHINA, and the Auto Industry in America will cease to exist! There is already a giant 'E GLUT,' they don't go far or long, are very expensive, and the consumer must be given a CHOICE."

The former president also urged users to vote for him in 2024 as he will "stop this madness" and claimed, without evidence, that Mexico and Canada love "Biden's idiotic policy."

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-auto-workers-strike-1827306

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 15, 2023 12:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Trump wrote: "Shawn Fain, the respected President of the United Auto Workers, cannot even think about allowing ALL ELECTRIC CARS - THEY WILL ALL BE MADE IN CHINA, and the Auto Industry in America will cease to exist! There is already a giant 'E GLUT,' they don't go far or long, are very expensive, and the consumer must be given a CHOICE."

The former president also urged users to vote for him in 2024 as he will "stop this madness" and claimed, without evidence, that Mexico and Canada love "Biden's idiotic policy."

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-auto-workers-strike-1827306

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



You forgot to mention the part where EV workers are not union, and even leftist news outlets are saying that the union would be a fool to agree to any terms where EV creation wasn't also unionized.

https://prospect.org/blogs-and-newsletters/tap/2023-09-13-beware-wrong
-auto-deal/

Quote:
According to my sources, the industry strategy is to make the bargaining entirely about wages and working conditions, offer the autoworkers a very generous raise of more than 30 percent, but concede nothing when it comes to the EV sector, and hope that the union takes the deal. That would be a disaster. It would represent the union being bought off for present workers at the expense of an increasingly non-union auto future. Too much of the decline of organized labor over the past several decades has followed exactly this pattern.

The industry hope is to put Fain in a bind, since such a deal might look very good to the rank and file. It would take gumption and leadership for Fain to reject the deal and tell the industry to come back with a bargain that included EVs.


I have a feeling you know that already though, don't you shill?


Your TDS is so strong that if Trump agrees with Democrats on something you will automatically turn on it and come to the defense of corporations.

You are a silly, hollowed out shell of a stupid, stupid man.

--------------------------------------------------

How you do anything is how you do everything.

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Friday, September 15, 2023 1:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

I have a feeling you know that already though, don't you shill?


Your TDS is so strong that if Trump agrees with Democrats on something you will automatically turn on it and come to the defense of corporations.

You are a silly, hollowed out shell of a stupid, stupid man.

--------------------------------------------------

How you do anything is how you do everything.
Name a company with an assembly line that contractually gives the assembly line workers the decision about what the company will build next year and the years after that. It is the customers, not the employees, that tell the company what the assembly line workers should make. It is the oldest conflict in Capitalism: who decides what the customers want from the company and controls the company? Is it the employees who control the company? Or is it the owners who control it? The solution to that conflict, but not in the USA, is the employees owning a significant fraction of the shares and having seats on the board of directors.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 15, 2023 2:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, September 15, 2023 3:00 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?
For the same reason as seat belts and lead free gasoline and mileage standards and crash safety and safety glass and airbags and anything that is not skin-deep fashion.

UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay
https://angrybearblog.com/2023/09/falling-auto-worker-wages-and-increa
sing-ceo-pay

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 15, 2023 4:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?

SECOND: For the same reason as seat belts and lead free gasoline and mileage standards and crash safety and safety glass and airbags and anything that is not skin-deep fashion.

UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay
https://angrybearblog.com/2023/09/falling-auto-worker-wages-and-increa
sing-ceo-pay


Well then, don't fucking blather on about "giving consumers what they want", dolt. EVs are mandated. You said it yourself.

Jeez, you're such a turd.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, September 15, 2023 5:35 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?

SECOND: For the same reason as seat belts and lead free gasoline and mileage standards and crash safety and safety glass and airbags and anything that is not skin-deep fashion.

UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay
https://angrybearblog.com/2023/09/falling-auto-worker-wages-and-increa
sing-ceo-pay


Well then, don't fucking blather on about "giving consumers what they want", dolt. EVs are mandated. You said it yourself.

Jeez, you're such a turd.
Every Trumptard I know has a life full of woe and lamentation because they think and act like you. The auto workers think/act like Trumptards, too, imagining they can keep their same old job making combustion engines forever and ever, climate change be damned since they don't believe it's real. Meanwhile, Toyota is making hybrid cars and Tesla making EVs when Detroit can't because the UAW is attempting to force it into signing contracts for lifetime employment of its assembly line workers.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 15, 2023 5:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?

SECOND: For the same reason as seat belts and lead free gasoline and mileage standards and crash safety and safety glass and airbags and anything that is not skin-deep fashion.
UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay
https://angrybearblog.com/2023/09/falling-auto-worker-wages-and-increa
sing-ceo-pay


SIGNYM: Well then, don't fucking blather on about "giving consumers what they want", dolt. EVs are mandated. You said it yourself.
Jeez, you're such a turd.

SECOND: Every Trumptard I know has a life full of woe and lamentation because they think and act like you.
You get caught out making a ridiculuous statement that EVEN YOU contradict, and your go-to-response is to drag a red herring "Trumptard!" across the topic.

Fucking turd. Address the topic in a logical way. Yanno, like maybe where you don't contradict yourself from one sentence to the next, like what usually comes out of that Mix Master inside your head.

IF YOU CAN.




-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, September 15, 2023 6:09 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You get caught out making a ridiculuous statement that EVEN YOU contradict, and your go-to-response is to drag a red herring "Trumptard!" across the topic.

Fucking turd. Address the topic in a logical way. Yanno, like maybe where you don't contradict yourself from one sentence to the next, like what usually comes out of that Mix Master inside your head.

IF YOU CAN.
You do remember that you are the one who does not read beyond the first sentence? Every Trumptard I know closes down their mind within a few words when their beliefs are contradicted. Every one of them. Their brain mechanism automatically hits the brakes hard. What they don't get is that little mental quirk is the reason their lives are a mess. Why would I try to convince you, a Trumptard, of anything? You put the retard in Trumptard, Signym.

https://angrybearblog.com/2023/09/falling-auto-worker-wages-and-increa
sing-ceo-pay


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 15, 2023 7:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, I DO read past first sentences, SECOND. JUST NOT YOURS.



So, let me get this straight:

You SUPPORT the strikers because auto workers aren't sharing in the profits.
And...
You DON'T support the workers bc they want you keep making the same-old-same-old, like "Trumptards" everywhere.


*****
You DON'T support the strikers bc they're not keeping up with "what the customers want"
And...
Customers don't really WANT EVs, they have to be mandated by government 'for our own good'.

*****

There's no point reading ANY of your posts bc, as usual, you just splatter the crap that's swirling around in your head onto the board, with no rhyme or reason.
When you've figured out WHAT you really think... if you ever do... then you might be worth reading.









-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, September 15, 2023 7:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I DO read past first sentences, SECOND. JUST NOT YOURS.



So, let me get this straight:

You SUPPORT the strikers because auto workers aren't sharing in the profits.
And...
You DON'T support the workers bc they want you keep making the same-old-same-old, like "Trumptards" everywhere.


*****
You DON'T support the strikers bc they're not keeping up with "what the customers want"
And...
Customers don't really WANT EVs, they have to be mandated by government 'for our own good'.

*****

There's no point reading ANY of your posts bc, as usual, you just splatter the crap that's swirling around in your head onto the board, with no rhyme or reason.
When you've figured out WHAT you really think... if you ever do... then you might be worth reading.
laugh:








-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM





I feel bad for both Second and Ted.

The cognitive dissonance that they've been living with for decades is about to fracture their brains in two.

I can't imagine living a life without any core values while having two or more opposing belief structures vying for dominance every second of your life.

It must be exhausting.



--------------------------------------------------

How you do anything is how you do everything.

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Friday, September 15, 2023 8:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECONDs brain is already broken. Not a psychiatrist here, but I think in more than just two pieces.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, September 16, 2023 6:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I DO read past first sentences, SECOND. JUST NOT YOURS.



So, let me get this straight:

You SUPPORT the strikers because auto workers aren't sharing in the profits.
And...
You DON'T support the workers bc they want you keep making the same-old-same-old, like "Trumptards" everywhere.


*****
You DON'T support the strikers bc they're not keeping up with "what the customers want"
And...
Customers don't really WANT EVs, they have to be mandated by government 'for our own good'.

*****

There's no point reading ANY of your posts bc, as usual, you just splatter the crap that's swirling around in your head onto the board, with no rhyme or reason.
When you've figured out WHAT you really think... if you ever do... then you might be worth reading.









-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM


UAW wants more money but also wants to curtail EVs because that means fewer jobs for UAW union members. (There is a claim on the picket line that EV assembly workers will not be UAW members. Instead, they will be Non-Union. The guys on the picket line are confused. The fact is that EV assembly requires fewer assembly workers, but they would be UAW members at the Big 3. There are companies, but not the Big 3, making EVs where nobody is a member of the UAW. Maybe that is where the picket line confusion is coming from. )

How about a compromise? UAW workers get more money but they also do NOT get to decide how many EVs the Big 3 build.

Business Insider says that companies like VW predict that EVs will require 30 percent fewer workers than traditional ICE vehicles. “The industry is going through a transition unlike anything we’ve ever seen. There’s a pretty strong chance that there will be fewer people building these cars, fewer people building the parts to these cars, and that will create challenges in some automotive communities” said Brett Smith, director of technology at the Center for Automotive Research.

Any way you look at it, the more EV sales rise, the more jobs are lost. A study done in the fall of 2021 by the Economic Policy Institute shows that if EV sales are 50 percent of all domestic vehicle sales by 2030, 75,000 auto jobs will be gone.

https://jalopnik.com/evs-are-going-to-cost-jobs-across-the-auto-indust
ry-1849413566

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, September 16, 2023 10:44 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Union workers won't have to worry about that because there's zero chance that 50% of vehicles sold will be EVs in 2030.

There's nearly zero charging infrastructure built, and the contracts out there are going to be nearly 1.5 Million charging stations short of the bare minimum needed for 50% of vehicles needing them. People don't like waiting in line to buy gas now. Nothing is going to make people instantly regret their expensive new toy purchase more than the first time they're waiting 3 hours at a charging station.

Plus, most homes aren't equipped with the 240 volt power you're going to need to have in your garage to charge your vehicle quick enough to do anything with it on a daily basis. Converting this is not a DIY job for most people and it will be prohibitively expensive for most people to do, requiring union electricians on the job and pretty significant collateral damage to the structure to upgrade the power to the garage. That being said, there will be a lot of people who watch a few videos on the University of YouTube and do it themselves anyway.

If the house is detached from the garage, it becomes a lot safer than an attached garage, but it will likely be a lot more work/money to convert to 240, and depending on how far away the garage is you have to now consider the problem of Voltage Drop, which can end up damaging the batteries, and take steps to prevent it. In time, Voltage Drop can kill your power tools which aren't comprised of sensitive electronics that can fail more more easily.

I wonder how many stories we're going to be reading in the future about people losing everything they owned and/or being burned alive in their houses because the botched electrical job to their attached garage or a bad battery ended up burning their house down while they were sleeping. It will be more than one for sure.

https://www.kcra.com/article/lithium-ion-battery-fires-how-to-prevent-
them/43266541

https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=9393

The strain on the power grids hasn't even begun. It will end up costing people 10 times the current rate for kWh to power their homes once millions of people start adopting these coal-burning vehicles. And once people start dying from the heat during the summer because of blackouts caused by the insane load on the grid they cause, there will be outrage.

Democrats are trying to force a technology that isn't yet viable for anybody other than a niche group of hobbyists and people who like to smell their own farts.

What we've got is good enough for a couple of million of them on the road, but we do not currently have anything close to what would be needed to supply the entire driving country with the power they'd need safely, conveniently and at an affordable price if these things were ever adopted en masse.

--------------------------------------------------

How you do anything is how you do everything.

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Sunday, September 17, 2023 1:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Union workers won't have to worry about that because there's zero chance that 50% of vehicles sold will be EVs in 2030.
You aren't good with probabilities.

Would you live in a building, cross a bridge, or trust a dam wall if there were a 10 percent chance of it collapsing? Or five percent? Or one percent? Of course not! In civil engineering, acceptable probabilities of failure generally range from one-in-10,000 to one-in-10-million.

So why, when it comes to climate action, are policies like carbon budgets accepted when they have success rates of just 50 to 66 percent? That’s hardly better than a coin toss.

Policy-relevant scientific publications, such as those produced by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, focus on the probabilities—the most likely outcomes. But, according to atmospheric physicist and climatologist Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, “calculating probabilities makes little sense in the most critical instances” because “when the issue is the survival of civilization is at stake, conventional means of analysis may become useless.”

More at https://thebulletin.org/2023/09/betting-against-worst-case-climate-sce
narios-is-risky-business/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 17, 2023 2:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Union workers won't have to worry about that because there's zero chance that 50% of vehicles sold will be EVs in 2030.
You aren't good with probabilities.


Yes. I am.

--------------------------------------------------

How you do anything is how you do everything.

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Sunday, September 17, 2023 2:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Union workers won't have to worry about that because there's zero chance that 50% of vehicles sold will be EVs in 2030.

SECOND: You aren't good with probabilities.
Would you live in a building, cross a bridge, or trust a dam wall if there were a 10 percent chance of it collapsing? Or five percent? Or one percent? Of course not! In civil engineering, acceptable probabilities of failure generally range from one-in-10,000 to one-in-10-million.
So why, when it comes to climate action, are policies like carbon budgets accepted when they have success rates of just 50 to 66 percent? That’s hardly better than a coin toss.

Policy-relevant scientific publications, such as those produced by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, focus on the probabilities—the most likely outcomes. But, according to atmospheric physicist and climatologist Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, “calculating probabilities makes little sense in the most critical instances” because “when the issue is the survival of civilization is at stake, conventional means of analysis may become useless.”

He means.... "IF the survival of civilization is at stake"


You know what events would cause a major hiccup in civilization, as we know it?

Full-on nuclear war. Years-long nuclear winter around the globe and deadly radioactive ash straddling the northern hemisphere. Slow painful extinction from radiation poisoning.

The eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano. A 50 mile diameter chunk of crust and mantle, all blowing skyward. It would destroy North America with ashfall within days, and block the sun for years. Another years-long "winter" scenario that would be an extinction-level event.

A 6-9 mile wide asteroid hitting the earth. Another "winter" scenario. In addition, the last time it happened it seems to have set off a long-lasting volcanic flow in the Siberian 'steppes'. And since the magma emerged thru thick coal beds, it released a fuck-ton of carbon dioxide and sulfur oxides. It wiped out the dinosaurs and most other life on earth.


Of all of those, NUCLEAR WAR is the only one we have a prayer of doing anything about.

So why aren't you agitating about THAT?. Is it worth the risk, if we "get Russia"?

That's pretty irrational (i.e you can't seem to ratio "which is bigger/worse?" and keep that in mind when assessing relative risk.)

We are in an extinction event RIGHT NOW. SOME is directly related to global warming but most is from HABITAT LOSS and POLLUTION.

Salmon fishing ban as stocks collapse. Salmon populations have been declining for decades, thanks to logging near streams and rivers which stir up silt and choke spawning salmon. Dams across major rivers also prevent salmon from spawning. Pollution and overfishing contribute. https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/why-are-there-so-few-salmon-left

Toxic red tides, which kill fish en masse, sea birds and seals, sea lions and other marine mammals. Red tides are made worse by phosphate pollution from farming, which happens extensively off USA's southern Atlantic and Pacific coasts.
https://www.sailorsforthesea.org/programs/ocean-watch/nutrients-feed-r
ed-tide

Along with that, we can look at the "dead zone" that occurs in the Gulf of Mexico every years, thanks to fertilizer and chemical runoff from the Mississippi, and algae blooms in the Great Lakes caused by nitrogen fertilizer runoff from corn (for fuel ethanol) farming.

Plastics and microplastics in the ocean, literally choking sea life to death.

We've used the ocean as our ultimate resource and dumping ground, but it seems we've exceeded even IT'S limits. Some of the solutions to, or mitigations of, global warming overlap with solving or mitigating these other problems:

Better forest management. Hand-thininng and hand-cutting instead of clear-cutting.
Cover-cropping to retain moisture, soil, fertilizer.
Re-establishment of estuaries and wetlands as 'cleanup' zones before discharge into the ocean.


As you know, SECOND, I do think that climate shift is happening. But there are better sollutions out there beyond a mass knee-jerk imposition of a technology that may (or might not) in the end improve our situation.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Sunday, September 17, 2023 3:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


ChatGPT's Environmental Impact Ignored By Climate Warriors
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/chatgpts-environmental-impact-ign
ored-climate-warriors

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Sunday, September 17, 2023 5:14 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:


We've used the ocean as our ultimate resource and dumping ground, but it seems we've exceeded even IT'S limits. Some of the solutions to, or mitigations of, global warming overlap with solving or mitigating these other problems:

Better forest management. Hand-thininng and hand-cutting instead of clear-cutting.
Cover-cropping to retain moisture, soil, fertilizer.
Re-establishment of estuaries and wetlands as 'cleanup' zones before discharge into the ocean.


As you know, SECOND, I do think that climate shift is happening. But there are better sollutions out there beyond a mass knee-jerk imposition of a technology that may (or might not) in the end improve our situation.
The solution is high prices for fossil fuels. How high? High enough to pay for removing the CO2 from the atmosphere once the fuel is burnt. Things like electric cars, heat pumps, or solar power are just tricks to avoid paying high prices for fossil fuels. Obviously, most people will be enraged that they have to pay higher prices for gasoline and install heat pumps. Such people will instantly see an Anti-Solution. Such people will teil their politicians: "Why do I have to pay insanely high prices I don't wanna pay when the people in China are the REAL producers of CO2? Make them pay instead of me! Threaten them with war if the Chinese don't pay." Instantaneous Anti-Solutions will be everywhere in politics!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 17, 2023 6:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Son, if one bad forest fire year undoes 18 years of CA decarbonization, maybe we should ... yanno... ADDRESS THE STUFF THAT HAS THE HIGHEST IMPACT?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Sunday, September 17, 2023 8:21 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Son, if one bad forest fire year undoes 18 years of CA decarbonization, maybe we should ... yanno... ADDRESS THE STUFF THAT HAS THE HIGHEST IMPACT?
Cut down the forest before it burns will fix the problem. Or cut fire lanes in the forest and hire a huge forest fire department. Or burn the underbrush often enough to prevent forest fires. Or etc. Whatever way suits you. Or do nothing and let the forests burn.

Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants. What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.

Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage there will be CO2 spreading everywhere and making a giant mess. In Baytown, there is a sewage charge of $2.81 for every 1,000 gallons of water your house uses until the use is 2,000 gallons then the price for sewage disposal increases to $6.36 per thousand gallons. There needs to be a disposal charge for how much CO2 you produce and the way to calculate that charge is by how much fossil fuel you burn. The details of how you reduce your fossil fuel burning are up to you. Keep using fossil fuel like you always have will cost you to clean up the mess. Or do something useful to reduce your CO2 disposal cost such as switching to other means and techniques.

https://baytown.org/481/Billing-Info-Due-Dates

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 17, 2023 9:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Son, if one bad forest fire year undoes 18 years of CA decarbonization, maybe we should ... yanno... ADDRESS THE STUFF THAT HAS THE HIGHEST IMPACT?


SECOND: Cut down the forest before it burns
There goes all that carbon dioxide removal!

Quote:
Or cut fire lanes in the forest and hire a huge forest fire department.
Better, but...

Quote:
Or burn the underbrush often enough to prevent forest fires.
Not ideal...

Quote:
Or do nothing and let the forests burn.
Yeah, THAT'S a good idea! Let's do nothing about CO2 at all!


Quote:
SECOND::Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants.
It's called India


Quote:
SECOND: What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.

Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage
You DO know how sewage treatment plants work, don't you?

They work by speeding up natural processes. Same with CO2 removal.

YOUR idea of decarbonizing the world is the equivalent of telling the world "HEY, STOP SHITTING!" to solve the sewage problem. Well, unlike shitting, we can actually reduce our carbon emissions. But we can't stop them entirely.


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Monday, September 18, 2023 7:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
SECOND::Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants.
It's called India


Quote:
SECOND: What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.

Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage
You DO know how sewage treatment plants work, don't you?

They work by speeding up natural processes. Same with CO2 removal.

YOUR idea of decarbonizing the world is the equivalent of telling the world "HEY, STOP SHITTING!" to solve the sewage problem. Well, unlike shitting, we can actually reduce our carbon emissions. But we can't stop them entirely.
Fact: 99 percent of wastewater is just water; the other 1 percent is solids, chemicals, nutrients, fats, and other pollutants.
https://wateruseitwisely.com/blog/journey-pipes-happens-wastewater/

The major products of the complete combustion of petroleum-based fuels in an internal combustion engine is water (13%), with nitrogen from air comprising most (73%) of the remaining exhaust. Carbon dioxide (13%).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK531294/

Signym, there is the problem. 13% of combustion exhaust is waste needing to be buried.
Only 1% of sewage is a waste needing to be buried. The rest is water or nitrogen.

An average passenger car in operation can emit about 5 U.S. tons of CO2 per year. The average passenger in that car flushes about 0.5 U.S. tons of toilet paper and excrement down the toilet per year. CO2 is at least an order of magnitude larger problem than sewage.
https://today.tamu.edu/2021/09/14/captured-water-carbon-dioxide-from-c
ar-exhaust-could-help-grow-food/

Signym, how much does it cost to run all the sewage treatment plants in America? Call it $66 billion per year in 2019. Since CO2 is about 13 times more waste, it will probably cost about 13 times $66 billion per year. Round that to $1 trillion per year for handling CO2. GDP at this moment is $27 trillion.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/192838/revenue-from-us-wastewater-
treatment-since-2000/

If you only consider working adults paying for taking CO2 out of the air, the cost is $6,000 per year for each of them. Alternatively, rather than spending $6,000 per year on handling waste CO2 because you forever refuse to stop using fossil fuels, you could spend some of that $6,000 per year on buying an electric car and upgrading the electric generating systems.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, September 18, 2023 6:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
SECOND::Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants.

SIGNY: It's called India


SECOND: What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.
Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage

SIGNY: You DO know how sewage treatment plants work, don't you?
They work by speeding up natural processes. Same with CO2 removal.
YOUR idea of decarbonizing the world is the equivalent of telling the world "HEY, STOP SHITTING!" to solve the sewage problem. Well, unlike shitting, we can actually reduce our carbon emissions. But we can't stop them entirely.

SECOND: Fact: 99 percent of wastewater is just water; the other 1 percent is solids, chemicals, nutrients, fats, and other pollutants.
https://wateruseitwisely.com/blog/journey-pipes-happens-wastewater/

The major products of the complete combustion of petroleum-based fuels in an internal combustion engine is water (13%), with nitrogen from air comprising most (73%) of the remaining exhaust. Carbon dioxide (13%).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK531294/


That's assuming the fuel has the general formula CH2. OTOH if you burn methane CH4 you create half of the CO2. That's why methane is such a good intermediate fuel. Methanol, tho lower BTU, is also a solution. (Literally)

Quote:
Signym, there is the problem. 13% of combustion exhaust is waste
Not necessarily...

Quote:
SECOND: ... needing to be buried.
Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :

Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.

Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Monday, September 18, 2023 7:42 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :

Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.

Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go
The CO2 that is already in the atmosphere will have to be subtracted at a rate about ten times faster than the CO2 was added. If you think mining coal and drilling for oil was a big deal, imagine undoing/reversing all that work at ten times the normal speed. It will be ultra unnatural, even more so than huge machines moving mountains of rock in the 20th Century to strip mine for coal.




The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, September 18, 2023 9:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :

Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.

Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go

SECOND: The CO2 that is already in the atmosphere will have to be subtracted at a rate about ten times faster than the CO2 was added.
OR WHAT?
What is your goal? On what endpoint and timeline was this caculated?

Sounds purposefully alarmist to me. I'd sure like to see the assumptions that this is based on.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Tuesday, September 19, 2023 12:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You really get carried away with sound-bites, don't you, SECOND?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, September 21, 2023 2:11 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Utility says California needs US$370 billion for grids and generation to meet net zero
($370 billion divided by 39 million population equals $9,500 each)

By Will Norman

September 20, 2023

California Independent Systems Operator (CAISO) grid capacity has grown by about 2GW/year in the last two years, Edison said, but will need to increase to around 8GW/year through to 2045 if it is to keep pace with the targets. The report said CAISO’s transmission network currently consists of around 26,000 circuit miles; adding another 120GW of new clean energy capacity – which Edison said is needed – will require another 20,000 miles of 500kV transmission, representing around US$75 billion.

CAISO approved a, somewhat scaled back, transmission plan in May that would add 45 projects with a potential solar PV capacity addition of 17GW over the next decade.

Edison also said that the distribution grid connecting its electricity customers to power will need to be expanded at tenfold its historical rate. An incremental investment of around US$50 billion will be needed to deploy around 1,400 new distribution circuits, the equivalent of 85 new distribution substations, and upgrade more than a third of the existing substations.

“The stakes are higher than they have ever been for expanding the electric system to meet decarbonisation goals safely, reliably and affordably,” said Pedro J Pizarro, president and CEO of Edison International.

The report itself reiterated that: “More than ever before, clarity is urgently needed to ensure the most cost-effective upgrades are built in time to interconnect new resources.”

https://www.pv-tech.org/utility-says-california-needs-us370-billion-fo
r-grids-and-generation-to-meet-net-zero/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 21, 2023 6:01 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


We’re past the point of no return on climate emissions — it’s time we turn to carbon removal

by Sir David King and Sware Semesi, opinion contributors - 09/21/23 1:30 PM ET

Covering 70 percent of the planet, the ocean has borne the brunt of damage caused by our disrupted climate — absorbing more than 90 percent of the excess heat trapped on the planet, and 26 percent of all civilization’s carbon dioxide pollution.

While this has shielded humanity and terrestrial ecosystems, the effects in the ocean are alarming: unprecedented warming, acidification, deoxygenation, and a host of related changes that further undermine the stability of our climate. Decreasing emissions must remain an urgent priority of the global community, but the problem is this: Even if we stop all emissions today, existing carbon pollution in the air will continue to warm the planet to devastating levels.

New tools are urgently needed to restore the climate and repair the ocean, particularly carbon dioxide removal, including potential ocean-based pathways.

The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has made clear that large-scale carbon dioxide removal will be needed this century to hold temperatures to a 1.5 degrees Celsius increase — the goal set out in the Paris Agreement. And if we aspire to ultimately re-cool the planet, carbon dioxide removal is the only tool that can remove the legacy carbon dioxide pollution that otherwise will stay in the atmosphere for hundreds or thousands of years.

More at https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/4213981-were-past-the-p
oint-of-no-return-on-climate-emissions-its-time-we-turn-to-carbon-removal/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 21, 2023 6:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :

Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.

Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go

SECOND: The CO2 that is already in the atmosphere will have to be subtracted at a rate about ten times faster than the CO2 was added.
OR WHAT?
What is your goal? On what endpoint and timeline was this caculated?

Sounds purposefully alarmist to me. I'd sure like to see the assumptions that this is based on.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM


I see you avoided answering the question.


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, September 21, 2023 6:16 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I see you avoided answering the question.
I get it. You are playing a game where you will do nothing, support nothing, understand nothing unless I persuade you. I'm not playing that game where I am responsible, per my enemies, for what my enemies do or don't do, believe or don't believe is true. You're the enemy because you are a hopeless mess. There is no way to save you, Signym, other than the supernatural intervenes.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


No, I'm merely pointing out that your fatuous statement about "we must capture carbon dioxide at TEN TIMES THE RATE at which it was emitted" was based entirely on... NOTHING.

*****
"We must capture carbon dioxide at ten times the rate it was emitted in order to

...reach pre-industrial levels of atmospheric CO2 in 30 years???

... avoid exceeding the threshold of increasing average global temperature more than 2degC in 15 years???

... make my investment in carbon capture technology profitable??

*****


I mean, WHAT? Apparently even YOU don't know!
Silly, silly man.




-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, September 22, 2023 2:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Altho it comes from ZH, the article heavily links original source material (ie. Bloomberg etc). I've only included two links. If you want to backtrack to all of the original articles, you'll have to go to ZH.

Quote:
Green Bubble Burst: US ESG Fund Closures In 2023 Surpass Total Of Previous Three Years
Friday, Sep 22, 2023 - 03:55 AM

For years, green and socially responsible investments, aka ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance), have dominated the investing world. However, according to Bloomberg, a seismic shift is underway as BlackRock and other money managers unwound an increasing number of 'green' products amid soaring backlash and investor scrutiny.

Data from Morningstar shows State Street, Columbia Threadneedle Investments, Janus Henderson Group, and Hartford Funds Management Group have unwound more than two dozen ESG funds this year. The latest unwind comes from BlackRock, who told regulators last Friday it plans to close two ESG emerging-market bond funds with total assets of $55 million.

Source: Bloomberg

So far this year, the number of ESG funds closing is more than the last three years combined. This trend comes as investors pull money out of these funds as the ESG bubble has likely popped.

We asked this question in early summer: Is The ESG Investing Boom Already Over?

In January, BlackRock's Larry Fink told Bloomberg TV at the World Economic Forum in Davos that ESG investing has been tarnished:

"Let's be clear, the narrative is ugly, the narrative is creating this huge polarization. "

Fink continued:

"We are trying to address the misconceptions. It's hard because it's not business any more, they're doing it in a personal way. And for the first time in my professional career, attacks are now personal. They're trying to demonize the issues."

By June, Fink's BlackRock dropped the term "ESG" https://www.axios.com/2023/06/26/larry-fink-ashamed-esg-weaponized-des
antis following billions of dollars pulled out of its funds by Republican governors, most notably, $2 billion by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.

The crux of the issue that Republican lawmakers have with radical ESG funds is that they were trying to impose 'green' initiatives on the corporate level to force change in society, and many of these initiatives would be widely unpopular at the ballot box during elections.

Remember these comments from Fink?



Alyssa Stankiewicz, associate director for sustainability research at Morningstar, told Bloomberg, "We have definitely seen demand drop off in 2022 and 2023."

Also, let's not forget about the 'greenwashing' across ESG industry.

Matt Lawton, T. Rowe Price Group Inc.'s sector portfolio manager in the Fixed Income Division, recently concluded: "It's becoming increasingly difficult to find credible sustainability-linked bonds."

The tide is reversing for Fink: "Backfire: World's Fourth Largest Iron Ore Producer Stops Purchasing Carbon Offsets."

Don't forget this: "McDonald's Scrubs Mentions Of "ESG" From Its Website."

Oops, Mr. Fink.


To be clear, closing funds worth a total of $55 million in the grand scheme of things is penny ante stuff. I would need to know how much $ is in "ESG" to know whether this is a significant trend or not.

And removing "ESG" from a fund's name, or from a company website, doesn't necessarily mean a change in policy. But IMHO, unless you're running carbon credits as a SCAM (i.e. selling carbon credits that simply don't exist), it is unlikely to ever be a money-maker. Removing or reducing CO2 is usually a cost, not a source of revenue.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, September 22, 2023 2:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


A previous article on BlackRock and ESG. I've included one important link, but if you want to backtrack to the original sources and also see the chart you'll have to go to ZH.

Quote:
BlackRock CEO Drops "ESG" Term After Blowback
Monday, Jun 26, 2023 - 07:00 PM

On Sunday, BlackRock CEO Larry Fink revealed at the Aspen Ideas Festival that he had abandoned the term "ESG" (environment, social, and governance) because it has been highly politicized and even "weaponized," and he is "ashamed" to be part of the debate, according to Axios.

Fink acknowledged at the event that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' decision to yank $2 billion in assets hurt his firm. Gov. DeSantis pulled state assets managed by the world's largest money manager in late 2022 over "woke" capitalism policies.

Lawmakers from red states have called out BlackRock for its toxic woke capitalism push in corporate America. Besides Florida, states like Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Arkansas, West Virginia, Missouri, and Texas have withdrawn funds from the asset manager.

Recall Fink was very nervous earlier this year over the 'demonization' of ESG.
Source: Bloomberg

Last month, seventeen Republican state attorneys filed a motion with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to dispute whether BlackRock could purchase more than $10 million voting stakes in utility companies.

"These elitists are trying to impose restrictions [i.e. decarbonization] on energy companies and utilities that would never win approval at the ballot box.
"Their schemes could raise utility bills for regular Americans, including elderly Hoosiers on fixed incomes, and they could diminish the value of their investment accounts," Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita said in a statement last month.

Fink, 70, said he was "ashamed of being part of this conversation," adding:

"When I write these [investment] letters, it was never meant to be a political statement. … They were written to identify longterm issues to our longterm investors."

Of course, that's nonsense. Fink has been at the center of pushing 'climate change' policies and has even said his company would "force behaviors" on corporate America.

And then there's this...

Video: Blackrock CEO Larry Fink: "Markets don't like uncertainty, markets like actually totalitarian governments... the whole dimension is changing with the deomcratization of governments ... "
https://twitter.com/i/status/1673042281652166657

Axios said at the event:

When pressed on the statement later in the conversation, Fink backtracked.

"I never said I was ashamed," he said, incorrectly. "I'm not ashamed. I do believe in conscientious capitalism."

"I'm not going to use the word ESG because it's been misused by the far left and the far right," he added.

Fink isn't ashamed of ESG... He's furious the scheme to ram woke capitalism down corporations through voting proxies has hit a serious snag and generated serious blowback from lawmakers and average Americans.

Here are some of BlackRock's top holdings...


https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/blackrock-ceo-drops-esg-term-after-b
lowback

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, September 23, 2023 7:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


A climate scientist on how to recognize the new climate change denial

Delay, deflect, downplay, and other ways fossil fuel companies block climate action.

What do you call it if it’s not climate denialism anymore? What are we facing now?

So there are other D-words. There’s delay. There’s division. Get climate advocates fighting with each other about, like, whether they’re vegans or not or whether they drive a car or not. Get climate advocates fighting with each other so you divide and conquer the movement. That’s division. Delay: “Oh, look, we can fix the problem with geoengineering, with carbon capture down the road. Trust us, we’ll be able to fix it.” So “let us continue to burn fossil fuels now. We will fix it later.” Delay. And that’s what they want. They want people disengaged on the sidelines rather than on the front lines. We see these tactics literally playing out today.

There’s an article that just recently appeared in the Wall Street Journal detailing how Rex Tillerson, the former CEO of ExxonMobil, who had been lauded as the next generation of Exxon leadership — he was not a climate denier. He accepted that climate change is real — there was a real effort by Tillerson and ExxonMobil at that time to present this public face of climate acceptance — because it had already become difficult to deny it was happening. People understood it was happening. It wasn’t credible to deny it. And so it was, “Yes, we accept the science,” but the D-word here is downplaying. And in the article, the Wall Street Journal makes it very clear, based on internal documents that show a different side of ExxonMobil and Rex Tillerson, that they were actively campaigning to downplay the detrimental impacts of the climate crisis while playing up techno fixes like geoengineering. In fact, Rex Tillerson was quoted saying that climate change is an engineering problem.

The idea here is, look, we can continue to extract and burn and sell and burn fossil fuels because we have all these techno fixes, other things that we can do to the climate system: trying to offset the warming by shooting particles into the stratosphere that reflect sunlight or dumping iron into the ocean to fertilize the algae that will take up the carbon dioxide, take it out of the atmosphere. Or massive carbon capture, we’ll just suck the CO2 back out of the atmosphere. That can’t be very hard, right? Well, actually, no. It’s really expensive and really difficult to do. And so [there are] these very elaborate schemes to try to somehow put the genie back in the bottle rather than the obvious solution, which is to keep the genie in the bottle in the first place.

By which you mean what?

Not extracting and burning fossil carbon and putting it into the atmosphere.

Deflection remains one of the key tactics of the fossil fuel industry. And a lot of good people have fallen victim to it. A lot of environmentalists will tell you, yeah, the solution is just us decreasing our carbon footprint. “You need to become a vegan, you can’t have children, you shouldn’t fly.” Ironically, that framing helps the fossil fuel industry even more because it plays to this notion on the right that climate action is about controlling people’s intimate lives (food, children, vacation).

The fossil fuel industry does not want you to switch to a green source of energy instead of burning fossil fuel. The industry wants you only to think of what you will lose if you stop using all forms of energy.

More at https://www.vox.com/climate/23885799/climate-change-denial-fossil-fuel
-companies-exxon-mobil

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, September 23, 2023 7:34 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, I'm merely pointing out that your fatuous statement about "we must capture carbon dioxide at TEN TIMES THE RATE at which it was emitted" was based entirely on... NOTHING.

*****
"We must capture carbon dioxide at ten times the rate it was emitted in order to

...reach pre-industrial levels of atmospheric CO2 in 30 years???

... avoid exceeding the threshold of increasing average global temperature more than 2degC in 15 years???

... make my investment in carbon capture technology profitable??

*****


I mean, WHAT? Apparently even YOU don't know!
Silly, silly man.

Most people will wait until green energy is cheaper than fossil fuel energy before they will switch. At the same time, the cost of ruining the world will never factor into their calculation of when to switch because they will demand to know just how much the ruining will cost themselves, personally. And they will want that cost to be accurate within $1.00. It is impossible to get such people to think about all the garbage, the hundreds of tons of CO2, they personally put into the atmosphere during their lifetime. They will refuse to pay for removing their hundreds of tons of old garbage. Let some future generation do the work and pay for it. The Signyms of this world are not paying and nobody can convince them to change their minds.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


“OK, did I go to China just to make a video about high-speed rail? Yes,” Barber told his 830,000 followers. “But I’m a firm believer in [the fact that] you shouldn’t say something is good and works until you try it out. And after trying out high-speed rail, this is the greatest way to travel, ever.”

“I want this in Canada,” Barber concluded. “This is the way to go.”

Not only are China’s high-speed trains convenient, comfortable, and incredibly fast, but they are also much healthier for our planet than forcing people to get everywhere by driving cars. (And, of course, infinitely more environmentally friendly than air travel.)

China’s high-speed trains are powered mainly by electricity derived from clean energy sources and can transport large numbers of people at a time.

Barber’s followers were suitably impressed by his journey.

“The fact that Canada and [the] USA don’t have this blows my mind,” one commenter wrote.

“Oil companies lobbying the government probably won’t let that happen,” wrote another.

More at https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/high-speed-rail-china-train/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:19 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


The Biden Administration’s Next Big Climate Decision
The liquefied-natural-gas buildout — and fossil-fuel exports — challenge progress on global warming.

By Bill McKibben, September 22, 2023

It’s the greatest L.N.G. boom in history, a feat that is all the more remarkable given that U.S. oil-and-gas exports were essentially nil before 2016, when, just days after the Paris climate negotiations ended, congressional Democrats agreed to end the forty-year ban on selling American oil abroad in exchange for extending solar- and wind-energy-industry tax credits in an omnibus spending bill. The first large-scale L.N.G. exports began in 2016; Vladimir Putin provided a rationale for backing increased exports when he launched his attack on Ukraine in 2022 and turned down the gas tap for Europe. The U.S. and others met the challenge, exporting fifty-six billion cubic metres to the European Union last year; the Biden Administration has promised another fifty billion this winter. Projects like C.P.2, though, won’t be done for at least three years, by which time the geopolitical reasoning will presumably have faded, but the infrastructure will linger for decades. The U.S. has now surpassed Russia and Qatar to become the single largest exporter of L.N.G. in the world.

And that’s just the beginning. A new report published last week (I helped present the data at a press conference) showed that more than a third of increases in oil and gas production between now and 2035 is slated to come from the U.S. alone—the authors, who work for the research and advocacy group Oil Change International, based in Washington, D.C., said that this will make the United States the “Planet Wrecker in Chief.” If that sounds odd, given the level of climate action underway since the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act, in the summer of 2022, you need to consider the artificial distinction that the world draws between domestic and foreign emissions. It’s a kind of math problem, though not a very hard one.

President Biden has said that he will cut U.S. emissions in half from 2005 levels by 2030; the huge investments in electric vehicles, wind turbines, and the like under the I.R.A. should accomplish a significant fraction of that task. But, at the same time, the Administration has overseen the continued ramp-up of fossil-fuel exports. (Venture Global alone is planning to produce a hundred million metric tons of L.N.G. a year.) The emissions from all that gas don’t officially “count” against the U.S.’s total, because it will be burned elsewhere, and under rules set by the United Nations the country of combustion, not production, is on the hook for it. But the atmosphere doesn’t care where fossil fuel is burned; the resulting carbon dioxide mixes quickly into the atmosphere and raises temperatures everywhere. And, if those emissions are added “into our footprint,” the analyst Jeremy Symons told me recently, “our total emissions in 2030 will be roughly the same as in 2005.” The rules constitute, he said, “the greatest shell game in the history of the world. We’re so focused on domestic emissions that we’ve missed entirely what’s going on with exports.”

More at https://web.archive.org/web/20230923121443/https://www.newyorker.com/n
ews/daily-comment/the-biden-administrations-next-big-climate-decision

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, September 23, 2023 11:23 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, I'm merely pointing out that your fatuous statement about "we must capture carbon dioxide at TEN TIMES THE RATE at which it was emitted" was based entirely on... NOTHING.

*****
"We must capture carbon dioxide at ten times the rate it was emitted in order to

...reach pre-industrial levels of atmospheric CO2 in 30 years???

... avoid exceeding the threshold of increasing average global temperature more than 2degC in 15 years???

... make my investment in carbon capture technology profitable??

*****


I mean, WHAT? Apparently even YOU don't know!
Silly, silly man.



SECOND: Most people will wait until green energy is blah blah blah blah
..


What does this have to do with your incredibly stupid statement?

Oh, NOTHING, you say??



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Sunday, September 24, 2023 12:03 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


FUN FACT: Wind Turbine blades are 100% non-recyclable, consisting each of 35 tonnes of plastic and fiberglass which are either thrown into a landfill to be somebody else's problem another day, or are incinerated, which not only is bad news for future CO2 emissions, but as a bonus are going to end up adding to the insane amount of microplastics that you already have coating the inside of your lungs and are already found littering pretty much every cell in your body.

As of 2022, we have a recorded total of 70,800 wind turbines in the US alone, each consisting of 3 blades.

So, not including all of the blades that have already been buried or burned, we have a combined total of 14,868,000,000 lbs of non-recyclable future waste product that's mostly going to end up in your lungs and contribute to global warming once they reach the end of their life cycle.

Oh... and don't forget that every single tonne of glass fibers produced in the first place results in a carbon footprint of approximately 1.7-2.2 tonnes. So, not including the blades we've already buried or burned, the blades on the existing 70,800 wind turbines currently active in America alone required us to put 12,637,800 to 16,354,800 tonnes of Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere before they even made their first rotation.

Clean energy indeed!



Well boys...

Smoke if you got 'em!




Sources:

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/can-wind-turbine
-blades-be-recycled

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-many-turbines-are-contained-us-wind-turb
ine-database

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/30003WOK.TXT?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&
amp;Client=EPA&Index=1991+Thru+1994&Docs=&Query=&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&IntQFieldOp=0&ExtQFieldOp=0&XmlQuery=&File=D%3A%5Czyfiles%5CIndex%20Data%5C91thru94%5CTxt%5C00000009%5C30003WOK.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h%7C-&MaximumDocuments=1&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r75g8/r75g8/x150y150g16/i425&Display=hpfr&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&SeekPage=x&ZyPURL

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-sustainable-sustainablemodern-const
ruction-materials-okpara

--------------------------------------------------

How you do anything is how you do everything.

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Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:49 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
FUN FACT: Wind Turbine blades are 100% non-recyclable . . .
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What does this have to do with your incredibly stupid statement?

Oh, NOTHING, you say??

It's as if you two are paid to be stupid by the fossil fuel industry. On the other hand, I sell the fuel but I am not responsible for what boneheads like you two do with the fuel. It is your responsibility, one which you obviously refused. You don't clean up your CO2. See this story about how a seller of natural gas convinces buyers to be irresponsible.

SoCal Gas spent millions on astroturf ops to fight climate rules

It's a breathtaking fraud. SoCal Gas, the largest gas company in America, spent millions secretly paying people to oppose California environmental regulations, then illegally stuck its customers with the bill. Californians were forced to pay to lobby against their own survival.

The criminal scheme is spelled out in eye-watering detail in a superb investigative report by Joe Rubin and Ari Plachta for the Sacramento Bee, which names the law firms and individual lawyers involved in the scam.

Here's the situation: SoCal Gas is California's private, regulated gas monopoly. They are allowed to lobby, but are legally required to charge their lobbying activities to their shareholders, and are prohibited from raising customer rates to pay for lobbying.

The company spent years secretly violating this rule, in the sleaziest way possible: working with corporate cartels like the California Restaurant Association and BizFed, the monopoly paid BigLaw white-shoe firms to procure people who posed as concerned citizens in order to oppose climate regulations that are essential to the state's very survival.

More at https://pluralistic.net/2023/08/19/cooking-the-books-with-gas/#reichma
n-jorgensen

Quote:
At first glance, a September 2019 meeting before the California Public Utilities Commission in Los Angeles looked like democracy in action. Speakers lined up before the state’s powerful utility regulator to debate the merits of natural gas. One by one, climate activists supported powering buildings with zero-emission appliances running on clean electricity. Burning gas in homes and businesses currently emits a quarter of the state’s carbon pollution that is worsening climate change. More than a dozen business owners followed suit, arguing instead for the preservation of gas. Their activism, however, was far from grassroots.

A concealed contract showed that the nation’s largest gas utility had paid a leading Los Angeles business association to recruit speakers against electrification, and drive them to the meeting using ratepayer money. Speaker Sassan Rahimzadeh, owner of a San Diego dry cleaning company, was recruited to attend. He told The Sacramento Bee he was troubled to learn that the arrangement was charged to customers of SoCalGas.

“As a ratepayer,” he said, “that would concern me big time.”
Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article2
77266828.html#storylink=cpy

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 24, 2023 5:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, I was merely pointing out your stupidity ("we must capture carbon dioxide at rate ten times ..blah blah blah") and your attempts to distract away from it by changing the topic. You're STILL trying to distract away from it by name-calling!


Just admit it was a boneheaded statement and move on.


And then we can start discussing your OTHER boneheaded statements!

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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