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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Does Covid-19 disprove the existence of God?
Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:19 PM
CAPTAINCRUNCH
... stay crunchy...
Wednesday, May 6, 2020 3:19 PM
THG
Wednesday, May 6, 2020 11:13 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Originally posted by captaincrunch: This design... you have to say it's kind of "beautiful" in a purely aesthetic way. It's definitely not random. Recent mutations can only be seen as an upgrade from the orginal, as if there is some kind of intelligence directing it. Can something as destructive toward mankind as this exist in a world with a God?
Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:31 AM
SECOND
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
Quote:Originally posted by captaincrunch: Can something as destructive toward mankind as this exist in a world with a God?
Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:44 AM
Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:49 AM
Thursday, May 7, 2020 9:42 AM
Quote:Originally posted by second: Quote:Originally posted by captaincrunch: Can something as destructive toward mankind as this exist in a world with a God?David Hume in "Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion" puts the following words into the mouth of Philo, “Epicurus’s old questions are yet unanswered. Is he [Deity] willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?” Augustine wrote about the Problem of Evil: Where does evil come from then, seeing that God, who is good, has created all these things good? - Augustine, Confessions. I asked how he dealt with the old theological conundrum, the problem of evil. If God loves us, why is life often so painful and unfair? Why do innocent people suffer? Kauffman said his God, if He exists, is the cool, impersonal deity of Spinoza, not the emotionally volatile tyrant of the Old Testament. For Don Page, a theoretical physicist at the University of Alberta in Edmonton, Canada, this elegance goes far beyond human actions. Page is both a hard-core Everettian and a committed Christian. Like many modern physicists, he agrees with Everett’s stance that collapsing the wave function is unnecessarily complicated. What’s more, for Page it has a happy side effect: it explains why his God tolerates the existence of evil. “God has values,” he says. “He wants us to enjoy life, but he also wants to create an elegant universe.” To God the importance of elegance comes before that of suffering, which, Page infers, is why bad things happen. “God won’t collapse the wave function to cure people of cancer, or prevent earthquakes or whatever, because that would make the universe much more inelegant.” For Page, that is an intellectually satisfying solution to the problem of evil. And what’s more, many worlds may even take care of free will. Page doesn’t actually believe we have free will, because he feels we live in a reality in which God determines everything, so it is impossible for humans to act independently. But in the many-worlds interpretation every possible action is actually taken. “It doesn’t mean that it’s fixed that I do one particular course of action. In the multiverse, I’m doing all of them,” says Page. From the Quantum World by New Scientist Problem of evil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil The Problem of Evil: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/
Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:21 AM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Thursday, May 7, 2020 5:35 PM
Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:49 PM
Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:20 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Quote:SECOND: ARGUMENT FROM MULTIPLICITY (V) (recursive internet edition) (1) There exists a web page ( www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm ) (2) That page has hundreds of purported proofs of the existence of God. (3) They can't all be wrong. (4) Therefore, God exists. The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:45 PM
Friday, May 8, 2020 12:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: You can't prove or disprove God.
Friday, May 8, 2020 1:43 AM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Friday, May 8, 2020 4:27 AM
Quote:Originally posted by second: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: You can't prove or disprove God.You can run calculations and get an answer to as many digits accuracy as you have energy to do the work. 3.5.3 The Argument from Evil: A Quantitative Result This approach generates a result that enables one not just to conclude that it is more likely than not that God does not exist, but also to assign an upper bound to the probability that God exists. The upper bound, moreover, is surely very low indeed. Accordingly, n must be extremely large, and thus the probability that there is an omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect person, i.e. God, must be very low indeed. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/#IndLogEviArgEvi The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
Friday, May 8, 2020 4:50 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Friday, May 8, 2020 6:33 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: lol Stupid monkeys... we used to think the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around it too. It's pretty cute when some of us think that they've got everything figured out. Do Right, Be Right. :)
Friday, May 8, 2020 10:06 AM
Quote:Originally posted by second: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: lol Stupid monkeys... we used to think the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around it too. It's pretty cute when some of us think that they've got everything figured out. Do Right, Be Right. :)The philosophical argument is that there are states of affairs such that it is likely that, all things considered, it would be morally very wrong for an omnipotent and omniscient person, i.e. God, to allow those states of affairs to exist. What the philosophers are arguing is that God can't be all three simultaneously: 1) omnipotent and 2) omniscient and 3) moral at the same time. But if God is missing two or even three of the above attributes, that is a different problem, one where God isn't actually a God, but more like a Thor, the comic book and movie character existing only in your imagination and the Disney Channel.
Quote:A number of philosophers have gone on to claim that in order to be justified in asserting that there are evils in the world that establish that it is unlikely that God exists, one would first have to examine all of the traditional arguments for the existence of God, and show that none of them is sound. Almost none of them provides any support for the hypothesis that there is an omnipotent and omniscient being who is also morally perfect.
Friday, May 8, 2020 12:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Are you even familiar with a book called The Bible? There's shit that happened in there that makes The Coomph look like a stubbed toe.
Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: I think that both as individuals and as societies we've just lost our sense of Balance. We probably could all use a little Taoism in our lives, whether or not we believe in any Gods. Do Right, Be Right. :)
Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:36 AM
Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by THG:Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.
Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:50 AM
Sunday, May 10, 2020 2:28 PM
Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:53 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: We are the sole cause of nearly all of our own misery. Blaming god puts solutions out of our hands, and so out of our reach. It's worse than pointless. It makes us helpless and our condition permanent, when instead we could solve our plagues.
Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:13 PM
Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:23 PM
Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:41 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: Of all the churches to all the gods in all the religions out of all the aeons, JW walks into your life. Here's some conundrums - if god(s) is(are) unknowable - why does every(all) religion(s) claim to know exactly what god(s) want(s) us to do? Why do they all claim to be the one and only and demand exclusive fealty? And why are they all different?
Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:09 PM
Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:11 PM
Monday, May 11, 2020 1:21 AM
WISHIMAY
Monday, May 11, 2020 7:52 AM
Quote:Originally posted by captaincrunch: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Are you even familiar with a book called The Bible? There's shit that happened in there that makes The Coomph look like a stubbed toe. Figures PizzaGate brain would compare parting the red sea with a virus. Keep swinging, genius. You can't compare a work of science fiction with real life. Other than for contrasts and differences.
Monday, May 11, 2020 7:53 AM
Quote:Originally posted by second: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: I think that both as individuals and as societies we've just lost our sense of Balance. We probably could all use a little Taoism in our lives, whether or not we believe in any Gods. Do Right, Be Right. :)Taoism does not have a God in the way that the Abrahamic religions do. There is no omnipotent being beyond the cosmos, who created and controls the universe. In Taoism the universe springs from the Tao, and the Tao impersonally guides things on their way. But the Tao itself is not God, nor is it a god, nor is it worshipped by Taoists. www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/taoism/beliefs/gods.shtml The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
Monday, May 11, 2020 8:21 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: You should probably understand at least the basic fundamentals of a God that you are trashing before you open your mouth. The Coomph doesn't have shit on other crap God pulled in the Bible. Do Right, Be Right. :)
Monday, May 11, 2020 8:25 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Quote:Originally posted by captaincrunch: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Are you even familiar with a book called The Bible? There's shit that happened in there that makes The Coomph look like a stubbed toe. Figures PizzaGate brain would compare parting the red sea with a virus. Keep swinging, genius. You can't compare a work of science fiction with real life. Other than for contrasts and differences. Are you mental? Even an ignorant moron like yourself surely has heard of the Noah's Arc story. When The Coomph kills 99.99% of everybody and every animal on the planet except for 2 of each, get back to me. Job was great read too. When Satan goaded God into killing his most devout worshipers' entire family after destroying his livelihood just to prove that it's when a man has everything taken away from him that his faith is the strongest. You should probably understand at least the basic fundamentals of a God that you are trashing before you open your mouth. The Coomph doesn't have shit on other crap God pulled in the Bible.
Monday, May 11, 2020 8:35 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Quote:Originally posted by second: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: I think that both as individuals and as societies we've just lost our sense of Balance. We probably could all use a little Taoism in our lives, whether or not we believe in any Gods. Do Right, Be Right. :)Taoism does not have a God in the way that the Abrahamic religions do. There is no omnipotent being beyond the cosmos, who created and controls the universe. In Taoism the universe springs from the Tao, and the Tao impersonally guides things on their way. But the Tao itself is not God, nor is it a god, nor is it worshipped by Taoists. www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/taoism/beliefs/gods.shtml The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly Why are you writing that as if I don't know what Taoism is? Do Right, Be Right. :)
Monday, May 11, 2020 10:29 AM
Monday, May 11, 2020 11:03 AM
Monday, May 11, 2020 11:35 AM
Monday, May 11, 2020 11:42 AM
Monday, May 11, 2020 11:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: There are a many things over which we have no control - earthquakes/ volcanoes/ supervolcanoes, asteroids, a changing (strengthening/ weakening/ shifting) of the earth's magnetic field, EMPs, solar activity ... an ultimate death ... and so on.
Quote:But we have complete control over our numbers, our resource use, and our pollution. That and our wars and our poverty.
Quote: We are the sole cause of nearly all of our own misery. Blaming god puts solutions out of our hands, and so out of our reach. It's worse than pointless. It makes us helpless and our condition permanent, when instead we could solve our plagues.
Monday, May 11, 2020 12:34 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Why is anyone still discussing this? I think SIX said it best: Nobody can prove, or disprove, the existence of God, especially not the judeo-xtian kind. If "god" was a provable, then "god" would be a subject of scientific study, able to be invoked in a lab and repeatedly demonstrated. The more that science has displaced the old gods and goddesses... the god of thunder, the rain goddess, the god of disease, the goddess of fertility, the god of the hunt, the corn god ... "god" has become a progressively abstract and unreachable idea.
Monday, May 11, 2020 2:10 PM
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 1:25 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: But we have complete control over our numbers, our resource use, and our pollution. That and our wars and our poverty.
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 2:54 AM
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 7:48 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: He's just throwing around some Democrat Atheist tripe.
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Of course The Coomph can't disprove the existence of God. What a stupid question.
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: You either believe or you don't believe. It's a personal decision.
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 8:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by captaincrunch: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: You either believe or you don't believe. It's a personal decision. I think you accidentally hit on something that I believe in. If all you need is a God concept you agree with and believe in, then yes for you, God as a belief system is real. If God is just an individual state of mind, the zen and mental health from just having belief in something that is calming or gives you strength - not unlike Book to Mal - as kind of meditation, "God" could exist for anyone. No matter what. BUT, if you go with the God that gave his only son route... that kind of action that exists as part of the shared physical world... sorry, eh, not so much.
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 11:35 AM
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 12:49 PM
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 2:03 PM
Quote:Originally posted by THG: I kill … I wound … I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. Deuteronomy 32.39-42
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