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McCabe’s Story, If True, Describes Coup Attempt on Trump, Harvard Constitutional Scholar Says

Andrew McCabe’s acknowledgment of a discussion on the use of 25th Amendment to remove President Donald Trump is tantamount to a coup plot, according to constitutional scholar and former Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

By McCabe’s own admission, he and other top FBI and Justice Department officials discussed on May 2017 whether they could get a majority of Trump’s cabinet behind the idea to use the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office.

“If that’s true, it’s clearly an attempted coup d’état,” Dershowitz told Fox News’ Tucker Carlson on Feb. 14.

McCabe, former FBI Deputy Director, tried to justify his position by the allegations that Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia and that Trump may have obstructed justice by firing FBI Director James Comey. After close to three years of multiple investigations the allegations haven’t been substantiated.

Yet Dershowitz pointed to a deeper problem—even if Trump were to commit crimes, “the 25th Amendment simply is irrelevant to that,” he said.

“That’s why you have an impeachment provision. The 25th Amendment is about Woodrow Wilson having a stroke, it’s about a president being shot and not being able to perform his office.”

He further explained that the amendment requires medical assessment and an agreement of two-thirds of the Senate and the House of Representatives.

“It has to be on the basis of a medical or psychological incapacity,” he said. “Not on the basis of even the most extreme crimes, which there’s no evidence were committed.”

According to McCabe, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein was involved in the discussions on invoking the amendment. The Justice Department pushed back in a Feb. 14 statement:

“As the deputy attorney general previously has stated, based on his personal dealings with the president, there is no basis to invoke the 25th Amendment, nor was the [deputy attorney general] in a position to consider invoking the 25th Amendment.”
Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein testifies before the House Judiciary Committee about Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation of Russia's alleged election interference in 2016, in Washington
Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein testifies before the House Judiciary Committee about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russia’s alleged election interference in 2016, in Washington on Dec. 13, 2017. (Samira Bouaou/The Epoch Times)

Rosenstein had a strong incentive to distance himself from McCabe’s remarks, Dershowitz’s assessment suggests.

“Any Justice Department official who even mentioned the 25th Amendment in the context of President Trump has committed a grievous offense against the Constitution,” he said.

“The framers of the 25th Amendment had in mind something very specific and trying to use the 25th Amendment to circumvent the impeachment provision or to circumvent an election is a despicable act of unconstitutional power grabbing.”

“Trying to use the 25th Amendment to try and circumvent the Election is a despicable act of unconstitutional power grabbing…which happens in third world countries. You have to obey the law. This is an attack on our system & Constitution.” Alan Dershowitz. @TuckerCarlson

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 15, 2019

Investigator Investigated

McCabe played a key role in the counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign that officially started in late July 2016, in the midst of the presidential election season.

The investigation was tainted with bias and potential abuse of surveillance powers. Text messages between then-FBI Deputy Assistant Director Peter Strzok and his mistress, then-bureau attorney Lisa Page, demonstrated hatred toward Trump and support for Hillary Clinton. Page served as legal counsel for McCabe.

McCabe personally reviewed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) application for a warrant to spy on former Trump-campaign associate Carter Page. The bureau applied for the warrant using an unverified dossier of opposition research on Trump. The dossier was compiled by a former British spy and ultimately paid for by the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee.

“Disgraced FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe pretends to be a ‘poor little Angel’ when in fact he was a big part of the Crooked Hillary Scandal & the Russia Hoax–a puppet for Leakin’ James Comey. I.G. report on McCabe was devastating,” Trump wrote in a Feb. 14 tweet.

Disgraced FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe pretends to be a “poor little Angel” when in fact he was a big part of the Crooked Hillary Scandal & the Russia Hoax – a puppet for Leakin’ James Comey. I.G. report on McCabe was devastating. Part of “insurance policy” in case I won….

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 14, 2019

McCabe was fired from the FBI on March 16, based on the findings of the Justice Department’s Inspector General (IG) that he leaked information to the press to boost himself and then lied about it to his boss and investigators.

As of September 2018, a federal grand jury in Washington started investigating McCabe’s leaks, according to The Washington Post.

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Two Trump Cabinet officials were "ready to support" a DOJ scheme to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove President Trump, according to Fox News, citing closed-door testimony from the FBI's former top lawyer, James Baker - who said that the claim came from Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

The testimony was delivered last fall to the House Oversight and Judiciary Committees. Fox News has confirmed portions of the transcript. It provides additional insight into discussions that have returned to the spotlight in Washington as fired FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe revisits the matter during interviews promoting his forthcoming book. -Fox News

While Baker did not identify the two Cabinet officials, he says that McCabe and former FBI lawyer Lisa Page approached him to relay their conversations with Rosenstein, including their discussions of the 25th Amendment scheme.

"I was being told by some combination of Andy McCabe and Lisa Page, that, in a conversation with the Deputy Attorney General, he had stated that he -- this was what was related to me -- that he had at least two members of the president’s Cabinet who were ready to support, I guess you would call it, an action under the 25th Amendment," Baker told the Congressional committees.

The 25th Amendment allows for the removal of a sitting president from office through various mechanisms - including the majority of a president's Cabinet agreeing that the commander-in-chief is incapable of performing his duties.

Rosenstein - who is slated to leave the Justice Department in the near future, has denied the claims.

Baker said McCabe was cool, calm and collected throughout the discussions, telling lawmakers: "At this point in time, Andy was unbelievably focused and unbelievably confident and squared away. I don’t know how to describe it other than I was extremely proud to be around him at that point in time because I thought he was doing an excellent job at maintaining focus and dealing with a very uncertain and difficult situation. So I think he was in a good state of mind at this point in time."

McCabe, meanwhile told "60 Minutes" in an interview set to air Sunday night that Rosenstein was concerned about Trump's "capacity."

According to McCabe, Rosenstein "raised the issue and discussed it with me in the context of thinking about how many other cabinet officials might support such an effort," adding that Rosenstein was "definitely very concerned about the president, about his capacity and about his intent at that point in time."

"Rosenstein was actually openly talking about whether there was a majority of the cabinet who would vote to remove the president?" asks CBS News anchor Scott Pelly, to which McCabe replied: "That’s correct. Counting votes or possible votes."

The New York Times first reported last year that McCabe alleged in memos that Rosenstein had talked about using the 25th Amendment to oust Trump — or wearing a wire to surreptitiously monitor the president — in the hectic days in May 2017 after Trump fired James B. Comey as FBI director. At the time, Rosenstein disputed the reporting. -WaPo

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) called the 25th Amendment scheme a "bureaucratic coup" led by enemies of President Trump. On Sunday morning, Graham said he would subpoena McCabe and Rosenstein "if that's what it takes" to get to the bottom of the 25th Amendment claim.

.@LindseyGrahamSC says he’ll subpoena Fmr. Acting FBI Dir. McCabe & DAG Rod Rosenstein if “that’s what it takes” to get them to testify regarding McCabe’s claim that Rosenstein brought up the 25th amendment. pic.twitter.com/r31XbVCPps
— Face The Nation (@FaceTheNation) February 17, 2019

On Thursday, the DOJ issued a statement claiming that Rosenstein rejects McCabe's version of events "as inaccurate and factually incorrect," and also denied that Rosenstein ever approved wearing a "wire" to record Trump.

"The deputy attorney general never authorized any recording that Mr. McCabe references," reads the DOJ statement. "As the deputy attorney general previously has stated, based on his personal dealings with the president, there is no basis to invoke the 25th Amendment, nor was the DAG in a position to consider invoking the 25th Amendment."

McCabe, meanwhile, walked back some of his "60 Minutes" statements. On Friday a spokeswoman for the former Deputy Director said: "Certain statements made by Mr. McCabe, in interviews associated with the release of his book, have been taken out of context and misrepresented," adding "To clarify, at no time did Mr. McCabe participate in any extended discussions about the use of the 25th Amendment, nor is he aware of any such discussions."

Baker acknowledged during his testimony that he was not directly involved in the May 2017 discussions, rather, McCabe and Page approached him contemporaneously following a meeting with Rosenstein in the days following former FBI Director James Comey's firing.

"I had the impression that the deputy attorney general had already discussed this with two members in the president’s Cabinet and that they were…onboard with this concept already," said Baker.

Question: “Do you know what direction that went? Was it Mr. Rosenstein seeking out members of the Cabinet looking to pursue this 25th Amendment approach or was it the other way around?”

Baker: “What I recall being said was that the Deputy Attorney General had two members of the Cabinet. So he – how they came to be had, I don’t know, but…”

Question: “So he had two members, almost like he was taking the initiative and getting the members?”

Baker: “That would be speculation on my part.” -Via Fox News

Baker also suggested that "Lisa and Andy" did not know the names of the Cabinet officials who were on board with the 25th Amendment scheme.

Baker testified in October that the alleged discussions took place during an uncertain and anxious time at the FBI and DOJ after Comey’s termination, and that the mood was “pretty dark":

Question: “Did people tell you that the DAG (Deputy Attorney General) was upset?”

Baker: “Yes.”

Question: “Did they tell you that he was making jokes?”

Baker: “No.”

Question: “Did they tell you that...”

Baker: “This was not a joking sort of time. This was pretty dark.” -Via Fox News

Pretty dark indeed.

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Originally posted by REAVERFAN:



So dumb...

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I know right.

T

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Didn't the pothead Electorate just give them cover, which is why they are now coming out

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Didn't the pothead Electorate just give them cover, which is why they are now coming out

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You really have to stop doing that.

There are plenty of people who smoke marijuana who aren't Democrats.

I'd bet you'd probably shit yourself if you knew how many people you associate with actually do. Because of the stigma that it's had for the last 50 years, we tend to hide that fact from people who vocally speak against it. It's honestly quite easy to do.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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McCabe’s Story, If True, Describes Coup Attempt on Trump, Harvard Constitutional Scholar Says

Andrew McCabe’s acknowledgment of a discussion on the use of 25th Amendment to remove President Donald Trump is tantamount to a coup plot, according to constitutional scholar and former Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

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Fuck you're stupid. Removing a president from office using systems included in the Constitution is, by definition, not a coup. Removing Trump from office by following the guidelines of the 25th Amendment would no more be a coup than removing him from office through impeachment or, really, than voting for another candidate in 2020. It’s part of the system.

How is it you don't have any common sense at all comrade? Are all Russians this stupid?

T

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Fuck you're stupid. Removing a president from office using systems included in the Constitution is, by definition, not a coup.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Fuck you're stupid. Removing a president from office using systems included in the Constitution is, by definition, not a coup.

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It is very clear IN THE CONSTITUTION that removing a President from office because you don't like his policies is NOT in the Constitution.

Remember what I posted about Dershowitz being a fairly balanced legal scholar, and that you should read his opinions carefully before you put your (totally uninformed) opinions up? Well, maybe you should do that.

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And who comrade troll tried this? Nobody comrade nobody has tried to remove Trump because they didn't like him. And your source zerohedge is nothing but a troll farm.


T

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It is very clear IN THE CONSTITUTION that removing a President from office because you don't like his policies is NOT in the Constitution.

Remember what I posted about Dershowitz being a fairly balanced legal scholar, and that you should read his opinions carefully before you put your (totally uninformed) opinions up? Well, maybe you should do that.

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And your source zerohedge is nothing but a troll farm.

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ANDREW MCCABE: Discussion of the 25th amendment was simply Rod raised the issue and discussed it with me in the context of thinking about how many other cabinet officials might support such an effort. I didn't have much to contribute, to be perfectly honest, in that — conversation. So I listened to what he had to say. But, to be fair, it was an unbelievably stressful time. I can't even describe for you how many things must have been coursing through the deputy attorney general's mind at that point. So it was really something that he kinda threw out in a very frenzied chaotic conversation about where we were and what we needed to do next.

SCOTT PELLEY: What seemed to be coursing through the mind of the deputy attorney general was getting rid of the president of the United States

ANDREW MCCABE: --Well--

SCOTT PELLEY: One way or another.

ANDREW MCCABE: I can't confirm that. But what I can say is the deputy attorney general was definitely very concerned about the president, about his capacity, and about his intent at that point in time...

ANDREW MCCABE: I didn't. I mean, he was discussing other cabinet members and whether or not people would support such an idea, whether or not other cabinet members would, shared, his belief that the president was—was really concerning, was concerning Rod at that time.

SCOTT PELLEY: Rosenstein was actually openly talking about whether there was a majority of the cabinet who would vote to remove the president.

ANDREW MCCABE: That's correct. Counting votes or possible votes.

SCOTT PELLEY: Did he assign specific votes to specific people?

ANDREW MCCABE: No, not that I recall.

SCOTT PELLEY: As you're sitting in this meeting in the Justice Department, talking about removing the president of the United States, you were thinking what?

ANDREW MCCABE: How did I get here? Confronting these confounding legal issues of such immense importance, not just to the FBI but to the entire country, it was — it was disorienting.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And your source zerohedge is nothing but a troll farm.

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Oh, you don't like ZH? Then maybe you should go to the original CBS interview with McCabe, while he's on his book tour, or what CBS says about that interview

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ANDREW MCCABE: Discussion of the 25th amendment was simply Rod raised the issue and discussed it with me in the context of thinking about how many other cabinet officials might support such an effort. I didn't have much to contribute, to be perfectly honest, in that — conversation. So I listened to what he had to say. But, to be fair, it was an unbelievably stressful time. I can't even describe for you how many things must have been coursing through the deputy attorney general's mind at that point. So it was really something that he kinda threw out in a very frenzied chaotic conversation about where we were and what we needed to do next.

SCOTT PELLEY: What seemed to be coursing through the mind of the deputy attorney general was getting rid of the president of the United States

ANDREW MCCABE: --Well--

SCOTT PELLEY: One way or another.

ANDREW MCCABE: I can't confirm that. But what I can say is the deputy attorney general was definitely very concerned about the president, about his capacity, and about his intent at that point in time...

ANDREW MCCABE: I didn't. I mean, he was discussing other cabinet members and whether or not people would support such an idea, whether or not other cabinet members would, shared, his belief that the president was—was really concerning, was concerning Rod at that time.

SCOTT PELLEY: Rosenstein was actually openly talking about whether there was a majority of the cabinet who would vote to remove the president.

ANDREW MCCABE: That's correct. Counting votes or possible votes.

SCOTT PELLEY: Did he assign specific votes to specific people?

ANDREW MCCABE: No, not that I recall.

SCOTT PELLEY: As you're sitting in this meeting in the Justice Department, talking about removing the president of the United States, you were thinking what?

ANDREW MCCABE: How did I get here? Confronting these confounding legal issues of such immense importance, not just to the FBI but to the entire country, it was — it was disorienting.

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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-andrew-mccabe-told-60-minutes-about-
trump-and-the-25th-amendment/

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“I DON’T CARE. I BELIEVE PUTIN”: TRUMP REJECTED U.S. INTEL AND LISTENED TO MOSCOW, SAYS MCCABE

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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McCabe’s Story, If True, Describes Coup Attempt on Trump, Harvard Constitutional Scholar Says

Andrew McCabe’s acknowledgment of a discussion on the use of 25th Amendment to remove President Donald Trump is tantamount to a coup plot, according to constitutional scholar and former Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

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Fuck you're stupid. Removing a president from office using systems included in the Constitution is, by definition, not a coup. Removing Trump from office by following the guidelines of the 25th Amendment would no more be a coup than removing him from office through impeachment or, really, than voting for another candidate in 2020. It’s part of the system.

How is it you don't have any common sense at all comrade? Are all Russians this stupid?

T

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Originally posted by reaverfan


Trump Accuses McCabe and Rosenstein of Plotting Treason Against Him

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McCabe’s Story, If True, Describes Coup Attempt on Trump, Harvard Constitutional Scholar Says

Andrew McCabe’s acknowledgment of a discussion on the use of 25th Amendment to remove President Donald Trump is tantamount to a coup plot, according to constitutional scholar and former Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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“I DON’T CARE. I BELIEVE PUTIN”: TRUMP REJECTED U.S. INTEL AND LISTENED TO MOSCOW, SAYS MCCABE

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I would reject US intel too, considering that they've lied to Presidents, the Congress and the public; snooped on the Senate Intelligence Committee as it investigated the lies that there was "no torture" in Iraq; and concocted false flags and false narratives (Iraq WMD, "We do not mass-surveil America citizens", "Assad gassed his own people", the Steele "dossier"?)

Lying is their stock-in-trade. It's what they do. You should always take what our security state says with a mountain of salt. Anyone who says you should trust them is stupid.

On top of that, it was already clear by then that the security state was plotting against Trump. Why the hell should he trust them?

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Definition of coup d'état
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
a military coup d'état of the dictator (funny how they use this as an example)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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McCabe’s Story, If True, Describes Coup Attempt on Trump, Harvard Constitutional Scholar Says

Andrew McCabe’s acknowledgment of a discussion on the use of 25th Amendment to remove President Donald Trump is tantamount to a coup plot, according to constitutional scholar and former Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

By McCabe’s own admission, he and other top FBI and Justice Department officials discussed on May 2017 whether they could get a majority of Trump’s cabinet behind the idea to use the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office.

“If that’s true, it’s clearly an attempted coup d’état,” Dershowitz told Fox News’ Tucker Carlson on Feb. 14.

McCabe, former FBI Deputy Director, tried to justify his position by the allegations that Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia and that Trump may have obstructed justice by firing FBI Director James Comey. After close to three years of multiple investigations the allegations haven’t been substantiated.

Yet Dershowitz pointed to a deeper problem—even if Trump were to commit crimes, “the 25th Amendment simply is irrelevant to that,” he said.

“That’s why you have an impeachment provision. The 25th Amendment is about Woodrow Wilson having a stroke, it’s about a president being shot and not being able to perform his office.”

He further explained that the amendment requires medical assessment and an agreement of two-thirds of the Senate and the House of Representatives.

“It has to be on the basis of a medical or psychological incapacity,” he said. “Not on the basis of even the most extreme crimes, which there’s no evidence were committed.”

According to McCabe, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein was involved in the discussions on invoking the amendment. The Justice Department pushed back in a Feb. 14 statement:

“As the deputy attorney general previously has stated, based on his personal dealings with the president, there is no basis to invoke the 25th Amendment, nor was the [deputy attorney general] in a position to consider invoking the 25th Amendment.”
Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein testifies before the House Judiciary Committee about Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation of Russia's alleged election interference in 2016, in Washington
Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein testifies before the House Judiciary Committee about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russia’s alleged election interference in 2016, in Washington on Dec. 13, 2017. (Samira Bouaou/The Epoch Times)

Rosenstein had a strong incentive to distance himself from McCabe’s remarks, Dershowitz’s assessment suggests.

“Any Justice Department official who even mentioned the 25th Amendment in the context of President Trump has committed a grievous offense against the Constitution,” he said.

“The framers of the 25th Amendment had in mind something very specific and trying to use the 25th Amendment to circumvent the impeachment provision or to circumvent an election is a despicable act of unconstitutional power grabbing.”

“Trying to use the 25th Amendment to try and circumvent the Election is a despicable act of unconstitutional power grabbing…which happens in third world countries. You have to obey the law. This is an attack on our system & Constitution.” Alan Dershowitz. @TuckerCarlson

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 15, 2019

Investigator Investigated

McCabe played a key role in the counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign that officially started in late July 2016, in the midst of the presidential election season.

The investigation was tainted with bias and potential abuse of surveillance powers. Text messages between then-FBI Deputy Assistant Director Peter Strzok and his mistress, then-bureau attorney Lisa Page, demonstrated hatred toward Trump and support for Hillary Clinton. Page served as legal counsel for McCabe.

McCabe personally reviewed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) application for a warrant to spy on former Trump-campaign associate Carter Page. The bureau applied for the warrant using an unverified dossier of opposition research on Trump. The dossier was compiled by a former British spy and ultimately paid for by the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee.

“Disgraced FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe pretends to be a ‘poor little Angel’ when in fact he was a big part of the Crooked Hillary Scandal & the Russia Hoax–a puppet for Leakin’ James Comey. I.G. report on McCabe was devastating,” Trump wrote in a Feb. 14 tweet.

Disgraced FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe pretends to be a “poor little Angel” when in fact he was a big part of the Crooked Hillary Scandal & the Russia Hoax – a puppet for Leakin’ James Comey. I.G. report on McCabe was devastating. Part of “insurance policy” in case I won….

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 14, 2019

McCabe was fired from the FBI on March 16, based on the findings of the Justice Department’s Inspector General (IG) that he leaked information to the press to boost himself and then lied about it to his boss and investigators.

As of September 2018, a federal grand jury in Washington started investigating McCabe’s leaks, according to The Washington Post.

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Dershowitz, btw, is a very balanced legal mind. For example, while he calls these discussions (if true) an attempted coup, he's not on-board with the President's declaration of a national emergency to build a wall, so I would read what he says pretty carefully.

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Originally posted by reaverfan:

Never underestimate the dangers of THE POT!!!!

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Originally posted by THG:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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McCabe’s Story, If True, Describes Coup Attempt on Trump, Harvard Constitutional Scholar Says

Andrew McCabe’s acknowledgment of a discussion on the use of 25th Amendment to remove President Donald Trump is tantamount to a coup plot, according to constitutional scholar and former Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

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Fuck you're stupid. Removing a president from office using systems included in the Constitution is, by definition, not a coup. Removing Trump from office by following the guidelines of the 25th Amendment would no more be a coup than removing him from office through impeachment or, really, than voting for another candidate in 2020. It’s part of the system.

How is it you don't have any common sense at all comrade? Are all Russians this stupid?

T

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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“I DON’T CARE. I BELIEVE PUTIN”: TRUMP REJECTED U.S. INTEL AND LISTENED TO MOSCOW, SAYS MCCABE

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I would reject US intel too, considering that they've lied to Presidents, the Congress and the public; snooped on the Senate Intelligence Committee as it investigated the lies that there was "no torture" in Iraq; and concocted false flags and false narratives (Iraq WMD, "We do not mass-surveil America citizens", "Assad gassed his own people", the Steele "dossier"?)

Lying is their stock-in-trade. It's what they do. You should always take what our security state says with a mountain of salt. Anyone who says you should trust them is stupid.

On top of that, it was already clear by then that the security state was plotting against Trump. Why the hell should he trust them?

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Sigs continues to bitchslap the Rezident Russian Trolls with every post she makes.

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Dershowitz was not merely friendly with Epstein — he also served as part of the seven-person legal team that defended the billionaire in court. The Herald reported that, as part of his defense of Epstein, Dershowitz sought to portray some of the underage girls who had accused Epstein of sex crimes — many of them near-homeless or hailing from broken homes — as unreliable witnesses. Dershowitz denied this, telling the Herald he is “not an investigator.”

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Fuck you're stupid. Removing a president from office using systems included in the Constitution is, by definition, not a coup.

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It is very clear IN THE CONSTITUTION that removing a President from office because you don't like his policies is NOT in the Constitution.

Remember what I posted about Dershowitz being a fairly balanced legal scholar, and that you should read his opinions carefully before you put your (totally uninformed) opinions up? Well, maybe you should do that.


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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Dershowitz, btw, is a very balanced legal mind. For example, while he calls these discussions (if true) an attempted coup, he's not on-board with the President's declaration of a national emergency to build a wall, so I would read what he says pretty carefully.

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Fuck Dershowitz, he's a fucking hack who hangs on Trump's every word to lap up like a fucking dog.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So JFK should have been removed from office because he was high on steroids and a sex addict, Nixon was paranoid and a drunk, Reagan was in the early stages of dementia, Bill was a serial rapist, GWB was a burned-out ex-addict and a dry drunk who was Cheney's sock puppet, and Obama suffered from the constant need to appease those in power?

Hey, most of our Presidents have suffered from one serious defect or another.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, the only person who seriously defied the deep state before Tump was JFK, and look where that got him. The critical threshhold on whether the deep state and their ever-compliant M$M wants to get rid of a President (or not) is not whether he can do "the" job but whether or not he will do THEIR job.

Before we start talking about whether we should get rid of Trump, maybe we should have an objective discussion about WHAT kind of job he's doing. For all of his bluster, for example, Trump has not gotten us into any new wars and seems determined to reduce our military footprint abroad. He's gotten us out of bad "free" trade deals, and is trying to control our borders (something that our previous Presidents let slip).

OTOH, our deficit is spiralling out of control, which is a big bad; and the wealth inequality is increasing at the same rate as under Obama and GWB, also a big bad.

But I don't expect a reasoned discussion from you because you're totally irrational.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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The reputation of the agency and its director declined drastically after the Bay of Pigs Invasion fiasco. President Kennedy reportedly said he wanted to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds."

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The reputation of the agency and its director declined drastically after the Bay of Pigs Invasion fiasco. President Kennedy reportedly said he wanted to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds."

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The reputation of the agency and its director declined drastically after the Bay of Pigs Invasion fiasco. President Kennedy reportedly said he wanted to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds."

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And yet JFK did not splinter the CIA. Same as he did not fire J Edgar Hoover, the enforcer of the "Deep State", if there was one. Then JFK put Jupiter missiles in Turkey, the missiles that caused the Cuban Missile Crisis. Then JFK "handled" the Cuban Missile Crisis, coming close to WWIII, but didn't fire Gen. Curtis LeMay. In 1958, Kennedy was gearing up for his Senate re-election campaign and seized the issue when he stated, "Our Nation could have afforded, and can afford now, the steps necessary to close the missile gap." Then Kennedy ran his mouth, accidentally killing President Ngo Dinh Diem of Vietnam. One Vietnamese Diem loyalist asked friends in the CIA why an assassination had taken place, reasoning that if Diem was deemed to be inefficient, his deposal would suffice. The CIA employees responded that "They had to kill him. Otherwise his supporters would gradually rally and organise and there would be civil war."
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile-crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_gap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_assassination_of_Ngo_Dinh_Die
m#Motivation

Signym, what Kennedy actually made happen was everything you despise, and I do, about today's Washington DC.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Well then! Thanks for proving the Democrats are just as bad as Republicans!

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Originally posted:
Trump Accuses McCabe and Rosenstein of Plotting Treason Against Him
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-accuses-mccabe-and-rosenstein-of-p
lotting-treason-against-him

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

And McCabe and Rosenstein admit to plotting Treason against the duly Elected President.

Trump now is no different than when he was Elected, or campaigning. There has been no change of status.

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Whether the Vice President would become acting President when the President became unable to carry on and whether the President could resume his office upon his recovering his ability were two questions that had divided scholars and experts. Also, seven Vice Presidents had died in office and one had resigned, so that for some twenty per cent of United States history there had been no Vice President to step up. But the seemingly most insoluble problem was that of presidential inability—Garfield’s lying in a coma for eighty days before succumbing to the effects of an assassin’s bullet, Wilson an invalid for the last eighteen months of his term, the result of a stroke —with its unanswered questions: who was to determine the existence of an inability, how was the matter to be handled if the President sought to continue, in what manner should the Vice President act, would he be acting President or President, what was to happen if the President recovered. Congress finally proposed this Amendment to the states in the aftermath of President Kennedy’s assassination, with the Vice Presidency vacant and a President who had previously had a heart attack.

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Personally, I think Trump is as sane as my third boss, the one who was fired for incompetence then went to the parking lot, got in his car, and shot himself in the head.

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It's not that he stopped being liberal ... he believes in innocent until proven guilty, and the rights of the individual under the Constitution ... it's that YOU'VE stopped being liberal.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted:
Trump Accuses McCabe and Rosenstein of Plotting Treason Against Him
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-accuses-mccabe-and-rosenstein-of-p
lotting-treason-against-him

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And McCabe and Rosenstein admit to plotting Treason against the duly Elected President.

Trump now is no different than when he was Elected, or campaigning. There has been no change of status.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The reputation of the agency and its director declined drastically after the Bay of Pigs Invasion fiasco. President Kennedy reportedly said he wanted to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds."

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And yet JFK did not splinter the CIA. Same as he did not fire J Edgar Hoover, the enforcer of the "Deep State", if there was one. Then JFK put Jupiter missiles in Turkey, the missiles that caused the Cuban Missile Crisis. Then JFK "handled" the Cuban Missile Crisis, coming close to WWIII, but didn't fire Gen. Curtis LeMay. In 1958, Kennedy was gearing up for his Senate re-election campaign and seized the issue when he stated, "Our Nation could have afforded, and can afford now, the steps necessary to close the missile gap." Then Kennedy ran his mouth, accidentally killing President Ngo Dinh Diem of Vietnam. One Vietnamese Diem loyalist asked friends in the CIA why an assassination had taken place, reasoning that if Diem was deemed to be inefficient, his deposal would suffice. The CIA employees responded that "They had to kill him. Otherwise his supporters would gradually rally and organise and there would be civil war."
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/cuban-missile-crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_gap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_and_assassination_of_Ngo_Dinh_Die
m#Motivation

Signym, what Kennedy actually made happen was everything you despise, and I do, about today's Washington DC.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Well then! Thanks for proving the Democrats are just as bad as Republicans!

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Originally posted by THG:

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Originally posted by REAVERFAN:



So dumb...

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I know right.

T

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It's not that he stopped being liberal ... he believes in innocent until proven guilty, and the rights of the individual under the Constitution ... it's that YOU'VE stopped being liberal. SIGNY

Oh NO! You've caught me! I'm really a fascist, communist, goose-stepping Nazi SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
JFK and the "Deep State" - that's a great book title, glad I thought of it.
Oh and I truly believe that J. Edgar was in total command of that little
club.

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