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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
A thread for Democrats Only
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:29 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:30 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: So ... what do I propose? Closing down a lot of military bases, mothballing our useless fleets of destroyers, and shuttering expensive military projects. Aside from an EMP or cyberattack, there's simply no master-military stroke, ie NCBW, that an enemy can launch that will not ultimately circle the globe and bite them in the ass. Ramping up doomsday weapons lethality and numbers is a race to the edge of a cliff. NOBODY wins, even if one side decimates the other as they both fall all the way down to the bottom. Now, a lot of young people from flyover country join the military because it's the only steady job around. I propose we put our military to better use - we teach these men and women a trade or three, like welding, carpentry, heavy machinery operating, machining, nursing, radiology- pulmonary- EKG-technician, electrical installation ... etc. And then we put them to work clearing forest overgrowth and underbrush, planting new forests, building artificial reefs to protect our shores from storm surges, building roads and bridges, creating housing in slum areas, caring for people in underserved areas. And so on. The list is only limited by your grasp of all the things that need to be done. THIS IS STEP ONE paid for with existing taxes, repurposed
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:31 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: And yet, I have read neither Marx nor Engels. And not only have I NOT proposed a workers utopia, I haven't called for a redistribution of wealth. All I've proposed so far is a re-purposing of tax dollars already collected. Since, AS ALWAYS, your post neither accurately portrays mine nor responds to it, I will assume that you're strawmanning (lying) and/ or changing the subject. AS ALWAYS. Do you think you can learn to discuss anything with anyone with at least a small amount of honesty? Or is that completely beyond you? And I have to ask - are you really the sane one in your family?
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:32 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: So, SECOND - here are the questions you need to address to respond to my post: what do you think of re-purposing the military to 1) provide valuable skills to the members, 2) provide jobs, and 3) perform important unaddressed tasks to society and the nation?
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:34 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: I had a VERY SPECIFIC suggestion as to how to improve people's lives without trying to create a worker's utopia or have massive redistribution of wealth, and it involved re-purposing the military. SECOND has managed to not actually discuss my post at all. But it does certainly snark and troll at every post. SECOND is a troll.
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:35 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: So here I am, making a simple suggestion that we redirect the military - from pointless, money-wasting adventures overseas and boondoggle military projects, to useful, value-producing work at home. It seems a modest proposal, and non-partisan, in that neither side has any financial or cultural reason to be more against it than the other. And SECOND doesn't seem to have anything negative to say about it, because he has done nothing but ignore, mis-direct, misrepresent, and post ad hominems - ie, troll. It looks like he's doing everything BUT address the point. But I'm curious what other people think. Set aside your preconceptions about whether or not it might be implemented. Would it work?
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: You missed one important aspect of redirecting the military proper - jobs. "The projected active duty end strength in the armed forces for fiscal year 2017 was 1,281,900 servicemembers, with an additional 801,200 people in the seven reserve components." The military proper is a total of roughly 1.3 million jobs. That's 1.3 million people not receiving unemployment. Thanks for not answering the question. Perhaps someone else could chime in, since SECOND can't address the actual topic. We could redirect the military - from pointless, money-wasting adventures overseas, to useful, value-producing work at home. It seems a modest proposal, and non-partisan, in that neither side has any financial or cultural reason to be more against it than the other. Set aside your preconceptions about whether or not it might be implemented. Would it work? Is this a way to improve the value the members of this society receive from the society, within the bounds of our current economic system?
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:36 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "just try to put 1.3 million soldiers patrolling up and down the streets of the country" I wasn't thinking of any military-style work. Just work on public lands like restoration and conservation, or for public projects like infrastructure, or in public hospitals in underserved areas.
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:37 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Since we're already spending the money for the military, it makes sense to simply give them different assignments. As for this being a "good job", "the initial monthly pay for the lowest rank, E-1, is $1,531.50 per month" or somewhat less than $6.50 an hour. And then, you live on base, go to bed when they tell you to, get up when they tell you to, run when they tell you to, eat what they give you, and so on. On top of that, they have some very specific rules covering things you and I might think of as our personal life, like no adultery. Violating that, and other rules they have, will get you kicked out. There's one individual advantage to my plan above and beyond military service and above a private job, which is the training to get good skills. A potential social advantage is that females may be more attracted to a non-combat army, and would acquire weapons expertise, putting them in a less disadvantaged position to men re guns in civilian life.
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:38 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Quote:One thing women aren't attracted to are men that make $6.50 an hour. That's a fact. Uh ... what does that have to do with anything? What point are you addressing? None that I made. Quote:First of all, the training is worthless if those skills are learning things that could only get you a job making $6.50 an hour. That's why I specified skills such as carpentry, electrician, heavy machinery operation, various medical technician jobs etc. It pays to read what people post so you don't waste both our time going over silly arguments. Quote:... we'd be massively undercutting what the pay for that work should be with our own taxpayer dollars. Which is why I specified public works type jobs, and service in public institutions, that are not now being performed. Again ... read what people post. Quote:At that rate of pay, nobody would do it. It's hard work. Sometimes even grueling work. I can't think of a single person who would do it for $6.50 an hour when they could go to Walmart and push carts for almost twice as much money. But people join the army and put health, limb, brain, their individual identity, and life on the line for that rate of pay. I'm not seeing your point on this either. Quote:Pay grade for E-1 in 2018 is reportedly 1,638 per month. http://work.chron.com/much-enlisted-army-soldiers-make-28798.html for my figure. Note that my figure was for 2014, not 2018. Quote: Which would be about $9.45/hr at 40 hours/week. But you are on base at the army's beck and call and on their schedule 24/7. *IF* your time 'at work' was limited to 40 hours per week, it would be about 9.40 an hour for an average roughly 30.5-day month.Quote: Maybe your stoner bimbos cannot comprehend, ... Why are you arguing that point with me? I didn't make it. Six did. My point was that if you are married you cannot fool around. IF YOU ARE SINGLE you can't fool around with a married person either. Both are adultery and will get you canned. Some people might find those 'hey, it's MY personal life' restrictions will cramp their style. Quote:This would all be a lot different if we were talking about putting military to work in non military infrastructure jobs at home. I for one, would not support the free room and board for these people on taxpayer dime. It would be far too close to having a standing army on our own shores. Some people* would argue that, Constitutionally, we're not supposed to have a standing army at all. (*This has never been addressed in the courts.) And yet, through the miracle of reauthorization, we get to re-support the military every two years, as per the Constitutional limit. When it comes to deployment, the army is not supposed to be deployed within US borders and take action against citizens (Posse Comitatus act, not part of the Constitution) although Eisenhower used an exception during school desegregation. I agree with the act, which is why I would call this non-military service 'training', not 'deployment'.
Quote:One thing women aren't attracted to are men that make $6.50 an hour. That's a fact.
Quote:First of all, the training is worthless if those skills are learning things that could only get you a job making $6.50 an hour.
Quote:... we'd be massively undercutting what the pay for that work should be with our own taxpayer dollars.
Quote:At that rate of pay, nobody would do it. It's hard work. Sometimes even grueling work. I can't think of a single person who would do it for $6.50 an hour when they could go to Walmart and push carts for almost twice as much money.
Quote:Pay grade for E-1 in 2018 is reportedly 1,638 per month.
Quote: Which would be about $9.45/hr at 40 hours/week.
Quote: Maybe your stoner bimbos cannot comprehend, ...
Quote:This would all be a lot different if we were talking about putting military to work in non military infrastructure jobs at home. I for one, would not support the free room and board for these people on taxpayer dime. It would be far too close to having a standing army on our own shores.
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Quote: You're proposing drastically under cutting the value of this work by having it all done on taxpayer dime. This essentially amounts to taxpayer funded "scabs" doing the work for 1/5th of the actual value of the work. Regardless of how you see things, this is a valid argument and would have impact beyond what you're projecting.Quote: Who cares if they're not currently being performed? What happens when that work is done? The answer is they will start doing jobs that are already currently being performed by people who make a living at it. They would eventually take over those sectors of jobs as well because A) they'd be cheaper than anyone else and B) they're the gummint. I can't imagine what are essentially government workers being used for private-sector work while they're still government workers. Yanno, maybe it happens in some movie version of a corrupt dictatorship, where the generalissimo has the troops build his gold mansion with private landing strip on the pristine mountain, instead of hiring contractors ... but we're not that. At least not yet.Quote: Army doesn't get as many people as they used to. To some extent that's due to the aging of the population as a whole. But many people don't volunteer for the simple reason that 1) they saw people get redeployed over and over in Afghanistan and Iraq, in what I call a 'use them until they break, then throw them away' policy; and 2) nobody with any sense wants to risk their life. https://www.politico.eu/article/the-militarys-real-problem-fewer-americans-are-joining/ And that topic leads in to this: Quote:Nobody is going to sign up for this as their only military duty. If you remove combat duty from the equation, death and permanent disability DISincentives disappear.Quote: I can't imagine a bunch of people signing up for a non-combat army that stays at home and fixes bridges and in exchange for free room and board and a few bucks over minimum wage they're going to hand 24/7 control over their lives to the Government. Yeah, why would a young person who can't get a job want to 1) get a job, 2) be provided for, 3) move out of the house and hood, 4) not risk life and limb, and 5) LEARN A VALUABLE TRADE OR SKILL for when they leave? You seem to think that people would be more eager to join the military if only they just could have the fantabulous opportunity of dying or being disabled BEFORE they get their training, instead of skipping the risk and going straight to the training. I'm not saying it would be for everybody. But the combined services are ~1.3M strong. Even under today's circumstances, it attracts a significant number of people. I can imagine it would continue to attract at least as many, if not more.
Quote: You're proposing drastically under cutting the value of this work by having it all done on taxpayer dime. This essentially amounts to taxpayer funded "scabs" doing the work for 1/5th of the actual value of the work. Regardless of how you see things, this is a valid argument and would have impact beyond what you're projecting.
Quote: Who cares if they're not currently being performed? What happens when that work is done? The answer is they will start doing jobs that are already currently being performed by people who make a living at it. They would eventually take over those sectors of jobs as well because A) they'd be cheaper than anyone else and B) they're the gummint.
Quote: Army doesn't get as many people as they used to.
Quote:Nobody is going to sign up for this as their only military duty.
Quote: I can't imagine a bunch of people signing up for a non-combat army that stays at home and fixes bridges and in exchange for free room and board and a few bucks over minimum wage they're going to hand 24/7 control over their lives to the Government.
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:40 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Quote:Kiki is talking about people handing over at least 4 years of their life under 24/7 direct management from the Military, housing non-combat duty soldiers on American soil on the taxpayer dime. Huge difference. Which we are ALREADY doing. It's generically called the military. All I'm proposing is that we change the military's tasks and locale - from killing overseas, to providing societal value here.
Quote:Kiki is talking about people handing over at least 4 years of their life under 24/7 direct management from the Military, housing non-combat duty soldiers on American soil on the taxpayer dime. Huge difference.
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:41 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: You object to the military proper being controlled by the military chain of command? You object to the military being paid their existing pay? You object to the military being housed and fed from the military budget? You object to them being quartered in the US? Those are absurd points. All those circumstances are the current reality. And of the roughly 1.3 million personnel, only 0.2 million are overseas. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/22/u-s-active-duty-military-presence-overseas-is-at-its-smallest-in-decades/ So, where are the other 1.1 million? They're living on and off base, in the US. Here's a listing of US military bases in the US, just FYI: United States Alabama Fort Rucker Maxwell-Gunter Redstone Arsenal Alaska Eielson Elmendorf Fort Richardson Fort Wainwright Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson Arizona Davis-Monthan Air Force Base Fort Huachuca Luke Air Force Base Marine Corps Air Station Yuma Yuma Proving Ground Arkansas Little Rock California China Lake Naval Air Weapons Station Coast Guard Training Center Petaluma Fort Irwin Los Angeles Air Force Base March Air Reserve Base Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center - Twentynine Palms Marine Corps Air Station Miramar Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego Naval Air Station Lemoore Naval Air Station North Island Naval Amphibious Base Coronado Naval Base Coronado Naval Base Point Loma Naval Base San Diego Naval Base Ventura County Naval Postgraduate School Presidio of Monterey San Diego Military Bases Travis Air Force Base US Coast Guard Station San Diego Vandenberg Air Force Base Colorado Buckley Air Force Base Colorado Springs Military Bases Fort Carson Peterson Air Force Base Schriever Air Force Base United States Air Force Academy Connecticut Naval Submarine Base New London Delaware Dover Air Force Base District of Columbia Joint Base Anacostia-Bolling Naval District Washington Walter Reed Army Medical Center Florida Eglin Air Force Base Hurlburt Field MacDill Air Force Base Naval Air Station Key West Naval Air Station Pensacola Naval Air Station Whiting Field Naval Station Mayport Naval Support Activity Panama City Pensacola Florida Military Bases Tyndall Air Force Base United States Southern Command Georgia Fort Benning Fort Gordon Fort Stewart Hunter Army Airfield Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay Robins Air Force Base Hawaii Coast Guard Sector Honolulu Hickam Air Force Base Joint Base Pearl Harbor - Hickam Marine Corps Base Hawaii Naval Station Pearl Harbor Oahu Hawaii Military Bases Schofield Barracks/Fort Shafter Tripler Army Medical Center Idaho Mountain Home Air Force Base Illinois Naval Station Great Lakes Scott AFB Guide Indiana Grissom Air Reserve Base Kansas Fort Leavenworth Fort Riley McConnell Air Force Base Kentucky Fort Campbell Fort Knox Louisiana Barksdale Air Force Base Fort Polk Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base New Orleans Maryland Aberdeen Proving Ground Andrews Air Force Base Coast Guard Sector Baltimore Fort Detrick Fort George G. Meade Joint Base Andrews National Naval Medical Center Naval Air Station Patuxent River Naval Support Activity Bethesda Navy Fort Meade US Naval Academy Massachusetts Fort Devens Hanscom Air Force Base Mississippi Columbus Air Force Base Keesler Air Force Base Naval Air Station Meridian Naval Construction Battalion Center Gulfport Missouri Fort Leonard Wood Whiteman Air Force Base Montana Malmstrom Air Force Base Nebraska Offutt Air Force Base Nevada Creech Air Force Base Naval Air Station Fallon Nellis Air Force Base New Jersey Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst New Mexico Cannon Air Force Base Holloman Air Force Base Kirtland Air Force Base New York Fort Drum Fort Hamilton Naval Support Activity Saratoga Springs United States Military Academy, West Point North Carolina Fayetteville North Carolina Military Bases Fort Bragg Jacksonville North Carolina Military Bases Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point Marine Corps Air Station New River Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune Naval Air Station Jacksonville Pope Field North Dakota Grand Forks Air Force Base Ohio Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Oklahoma Altus Air Force Base Fort Sill Tinker Air Force Base Vance Air Force Base Pennsylvania Carlisle Barracks Puerto Rico Fort Buchanan Rhode Island Naval Station Newport South Carolina Beaufort South Carolina Military Bases Charleston Air Force Base Fort Jackson Joint Base Charleston Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island Naval Hospital Beaufort Naval Weapons Station Charleston Shaw Air Force Base South Dakota Ellsworth Air Force Base Tennessee Naval Support Activity Mid-South Texas Camp Bullis Dyess Air Force Base Fort Bliss Fort Hood Fort Sam Houston Goodfellow Air Force Base Joint Base Myer - Henderson Hall Joint Base San Antonio Lackland Air Force Base Laughlin Air Force Base Naval Air Station Corpus Christi Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth Randolph Air Force Base Red River Army Depot Sheppard Air Force Base Utah Dugway Proving Ground Hill Air Force Base Virginia Coast Guard Sector Hampton Roads Fort Belvoir Fort Eustis Fort Lee Fort Myer Fort Story Hampton Roads Military Bases Henderson Hall Joint Base Langley-Eustis Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek - Fort Story Langley Air Force Base Marine Corps Base Quantico Naval Air Station Oceana Naval Air Station Oceana Dam Neck Annex Naval Amphibious Base Little Creek Naval Station Norfolk Washington Beale Air Force Base Coast Guard Sector Puget Sound Fairchild Air Force Base Fort Lewis Joint Base Lewis-McChord McChord Field Naval Air Station Whidbey Island Naval Base Kitsap Naval Base Kitsap - Bangor Naval Base Kitsap - Bremerton Naval Hospital Bremerton Naval Station Everett Wisconsin Fort McCoy Wyoming F. E. Warren Air Force Base So, in order to assuage your qualms, what are you suggesting - we disband the military? We don't pay them? We quarter them somewhere not on US soil? Do you think Canada would be accommodating? I also specified they do NOT patrol the US under my plan - the exact same way they don't patrol the US now. And they do NOT perform private, for-profit work - the exact same way they don't perform private, for-profit work now. I suggest you re-frame your objections, because you're making no sense at all.
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:42 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: I'm making this particular suggestion because nether party seems to object to the size of the military we have, the number of people in it, or the amount of money that is spent. And a civilian corps would be too much like socialism.
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "It requires people to be put under the military code of justice just for "three hots and a cot" and training" Which they are ALREADY doing. I'm not changing that. Today's all volunteer army requires people who make a choice to join. Some join for the college and post-college benefits, some want to make it a career, some just need a job. But they are certainly wiling to be deployed in an active war zone, and put their lives, health, and futures on the line, to get the economic benefits they seek in the military. And note: I'm not saying we EXPAND the military. What part of 'everything else stays the same' do people not get?
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: I've come to the realization (above) by watching Homicide Hunter, which is a real crime TV show. But because it's in Colorado Springs - which has a large collection of military bases and offices in and nearby (within 10 miles) - I've learned a lot about the scope and function of the US military in the economy. Your concern is that it will get that bad. Watching this show I can say it IS that bad. The military is HUGE. Collected all together, it would be a substantial city on a map. We just don't see it because we don't live next to military bases. Here's a list (some bases have more than 1 physical location): Peterson Air Force Base Colorado Springs, CO (719) 556-7321 Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station Colorado Springs, CO (719) 474-1110 Fort Carson Fort Carson, CO (719) 526-5811 Ft. Carson Colorado Springs, CO US Army Department Colorado Springs, CO (719) 526-3410 US Army Department Colorado Springs, CO (719) 526-5958 JBTEC Colorado Springs, CO Schriever Air Force Base Colorado Springs, CO (719) 567-1110 US Army Space Command Colorado Springs, CO US Defense Contract Audit Colorado Springs, CO (719) 596-0960 US Defense Contract Audit Colorado Springs, CO (719) 596-0960 21st Force Support Squadron Colorado Springs, CO (719) 556-4023 Peterson AFB West Gate Visitors Center Colorado Springs, CO Off Post Homes Colorado Springs, CO (719) 591-7653 United States Air Force Academy U.S. Air Force Academy, CO (719) 333-2025 National Guard Colorado Springs, CO (719) 596-7184 50th Space Wing Schriever AFB, CO (719) 567-5040
Monday, May 21, 2018 11:44 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "So your solution to the problem is to expand the huge bad" NOT expand it !!! I've said that many times already. What part of EVERYTHING ELSE STAYS THE SAME do you not understand? The military doesn't get larger. They house, feed and pay them the EXACT same way they do now. The military chain of command is the same. There are only two differences. 1 the military doesn't get deployed overseas 2 instead of doing combat duty they get trained to work on, then work on, public, not-for-profit projects. I've been though this over a half a dozen times with you. You are incredibly dense.
Tuesday, May 22, 2018 8:23 AM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "What your proposing would expand it." Well, that's one way to try and win an argument. Lie about what I said, and then tell me I'm wrong. Jack, you have such a powerful reaction, you can't stop blubbering and hyperventilating long enough to comprehend what I posted. Unless you have something that factually addresses my proposal, I'm just going to write off your posts. Unless I take the time to point out that you're lying. Again. And then maybe make fun of you. SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "What your proposing would expand it." Well, that's one way to try and win an argument. Lie about what I said, and then tell me I'm wrong. Jack, you have such a powerful reaction, you can't stop blubbering and hyperventilating long enough to comprehend what I posted. Unless you have something that factually addresses my proposal, I'm just going to write off your posts. Unless I take the time to point out that you're lying. Again. And then maybe make fun of you. SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).
Tuesday, May 22, 2018 8:53 AM
SECOND
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
Tuesday, May 22, 2018 8:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by second: In a pattern that’s played out over and over since the tax cuts passed — companies profit, shareholders reap the benefits, and workers get left out. Corporate stock buybacks hit a record $178 billion in the first three months of 2018; average hourly earnings for American workers are up 67 cents over the past year. Harley-Davidson is an American symbol, and President Trump has trotted it out as an example of business success. But as it’s getting its tax cut, it’s outsourcing jobs and paying shareholders. Harley-Davidson took its tax cut, closed a factory, and rewarded shareholders. The motorcycle maker in January told 800 Kansas City workers it would close a plant there. Days later, it announced a nearly $700 million stock buyback plan. www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax-buyback-kansas-city-factory The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
Tuesday, May 22, 2018 12:33 PM
JEWELSTAITEFAN
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Quote:Originally posted by second: In a pattern that’s played out over and over since the tax cuts passed — companies profit, shareholders reap the benefits, and workers get left out. Corporate stock buybacks hit a record $178 billion in the first three months of 2018; average hourly earnings for American workers are up 67 cents over the past year. Harley-Davidson is an American symbol, and President Trump has trotted it out as an example of business success. But as it’s getting its tax cut, it’s outsourcing jobs and paying shareholders. Harley-Davidson took its tax cut, closed a factory, and rewarded shareholders. The motorcycle maker in January told 800 Kansas City workers it would close a plant there. Days later, it announced a nearly $700 million stock buyback plan. www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax-buyback-kansas-city-factory Yeah. We've been doing this for 20 years now. I have to admit that I thought I voted against it in 2016. Do Right, Be Right. :)
Quote:Originally posted by second: In a pattern that’s played out over and over since the tax cuts passed — companies profit, shareholders reap the benefits, and workers get left out. Corporate stock buybacks hit a record $178 billion in the first three months of 2018; average hourly earnings for American workers are up 67 cents over the past year. Harley-Davidson is an American symbol, and President Trump has trotted it out as an example of business success. But as it’s getting its tax cut, it’s outsourcing jobs and paying shareholders. Harley-Davidson took its tax cut, closed a factory, and rewarded shareholders. The motorcycle maker in January told 800 Kansas City workers it would close a plant there. Days later, it announced a nearly $700 million stock buyback plan. www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/22/17350180/harley-davidson-tax-buyback-kansas-city-factory
Tuesday, May 22, 2018 1:31 PM
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: You voted against the worst option in 2016. Not your fault the 2nd worst was hand-picked by the worst option. As usual, I voted for the best option on the ballot.
Tuesday, May 22, 2018 1:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "What your proposing would expand it." Well, that's one way to try and win an argument. Lie about what I said, and then tell me I'm wrong. Jack, you have such a powerful reaction, you can't stop blubbering and hyperventilating long enough to comprehend what I posted. Unless you have something that factually addresses my proposal, I'm just going to write off your posts. Unless I take the time to point out that you're lying. Again. And then maybe make fun of you. SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time). Perhaps if you explain what 6ix has incorrect, the exchange could progress.
Tuesday, May 22, 2018 2:23 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Quote:She keeps saying that she's not proposing to expand the military, but that's exactly what she is doing with her suggestion.
Quote: I can't help it if she thinks I'm a liar for saying so. Sigs doesn't agree with Kiki here either.
Tuesday, May 22, 2018 10:09 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Quote:She keeps saying that she's not proposing to expand the military, but that's exactly what she is doing with her suggestion. I think what KIKI is suggesting is that the scope of duties would change for recruits, so instead of performing military service, the volunteers would be performing civilian/ public service duties instead. To make this a simper concept, let's propose that in the last year of one's contract with the military, instead of being deployed abroad or continuing with military training/ service, that the recruits are turned towards things like bridge building, roadway construction, dam removal, or energy-efficiency retrofitting, learning skills like using bulldozers and scrapers or electrical wiring. It could be proposed as a transition program back to civilian life. Alternately, we can point to similar programs ALREADY in the military, such as getting a degree in dentistry in return for 8 years of military service. My niece and her husband got their professional educations "the army way".
Quote:I don't agree, but not because it necessarily represents an numeric expansion (i.e. numbers of military volunteers increasing) but because it expands the scope of "military code of justice" to non-military situations even further. If there's any reason at all for putting recruits under "martial law" it's because they will be forced into a wartime situation, where obedience is required. But there's no reason to put people under "martial law" because they're learning how to make their beds, brush their teeth, and run a bulldozer. I realize that the reason why KIKI is suggesting this "soft transition" from a wartime economy is because KIKI thinks it's more palatable, and therefore more possible, than conjuring up another vast "public works" program, but IMHO a "soft transition" is no more likely than a complete about-face.
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 4:27 AM
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "What your proposing would expand it." Well, that's one way to try and win an argument. Lie about what I said, and then tell me I'm wrong. Jack, you have such a powerful reaction, you can't stop blubbering and hyperventilating long enough to comprehend what I posted. Unless you have something that factually addresses my proposal, I'm just going to write off your posts. Unless I take the time to point out that you're lying. Again. And then maybe make fun of you. SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time). Perhaps if you explain what 6ix has incorrect, the exchange could progress.She keeps saying that she's not proposing to expand the military, but that's exactly what she is doing with her suggestion. I can't help it if she thinks I'm a liar for saying so. Sigs doesn't agree with Kiki here either. What's your take, JSF? It would be interesting to hear your side since unlike us, I don't believe you have any problems with the current size of our military. Do Right, Be Right. :)
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:26 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm looking 20 years down the road and seeing this ending very badly for everybody. Do Right, Be Right. :)
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:30 AM
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:54 AM
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 11:52 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Of course it's a tape. That sneaky Billy Bush. Always luring Trump on buses and getting him to say the wildest things about secret trade deals with Chinese, secret plans to overthrow Democracy with Putin and grabbin pussy. What a kidder. I remember this one time I was riding the bus with Billy Bush and he got me to to say on tape that being electrocuted through my nips is a huge turn on for me. And I ain't even tried that before. Still on my bucket list though, cause I know it would be. Maybe next time I'm sitting on Billy's lap on the bus? Man we were high. Starlord for President in 2020. He didn't mean it ya'all. Do Right, Be Right. :)
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:14 PM
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:40 PM
Quote:Bank profits hit a new all-time record as Congress is poised to roll back post-crisis regulations. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation announced Tuesday that America’s banking sector hit a new record high of $56 billion in net income in the first quarter of 2018. Meanwhile, the US House of Representatives is set this afternoon to pass a bill killing financial regulations to help out a financial services sector that they see as ailing under the status quo. Yes, the same sector that just posted record profits. Now, of course, if you talk to proponents of the regulatory rollback, they’ll tell you they have no intention of helping out the Wall Street giants whom everyone hates. But with less regulation coming down the pike, there’s every reason to believe that the future will only be brighter for America’s banks. www.vox.com/2018/5/22/17380490/fdic-bank-profits-dodd-frank
Quote: Congress’s tweak to the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial rules mostly eases restrictions on small and “community” banks, allowing them to make mortgages more easily and loosening some troublesome red tape. Lenders with assets between $50 billion and $250 billion will no longer automatically face tough oversight from the Federal Reserve, but some still may anyway; bonds issued by local authorities will be treated a little more favorably.
Quote:It’s more milestone than real change, and less than many Republicans in the House of Representatives wanted. For mega-banks like Citi, JPMorgan or Wells Fargo, the revisions offer almost nothing – although with industry profit hitting a record $56 billion in the first quarter, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp, they’re not in a position to complain. What comes next could be more interesting to them, if it involves changes to the Volcker Rule – the restriction on deposit-takers trading for their own gain rather than that of clients. Five regulators, including the Fed, want to change the current presumption that all short-term trades are considered speculative unless there’s a paper trail to show otherwise. JPMorgan boss Jamie Dimon once complained traders would need a lawyer and a psychiatrist sitting next to them to gauge the intent behind any given transaction. Banks certainly made money from their prop trading desks – but even so, the idea that they would rush to reopen them should the rules change seems far-fetched. Some of that trading still happens, under the guise of hedging, but most big banks are more interested in fee-generating businesses like securities underwriting and consumer lending. Much speculative activity - and the star traders driving it - have migrated to hedge funds. Automation means many trades don’t even go near a human any more.
Quote:The measure crafted by Idaho Sen. Mike Crapo, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, passed 67 to 31, marking a rare occurrence of old-fashioned legislating on a bipartisan bill that nevertheless sharply divided Democrats.
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:17 PM
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:05 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: ZTE PHONE As usual, you're presuming to know what's going on with ZTE phone. My first thought was that this had more to do with China's help with getting N Korea back on track than anything else, but in reality none one of us know for sure.
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:06 PM
JJ
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 4:22 PM
Quote:Originally posted by JJ: It's as simple as you've pointed out SECOND. Trumps corrupt, and it's both funny and sad to see his supporters realize he cares nothing about making America great, or them. Therefore they keep making excuses for him because they don't want to lose face by admitting it. To late for that, losing face I mean. They couldn't look any dumber or corrupt themselves. T
Wednesday, May 23, 2018 4:57 PM
Quote:And the reason why we do not know for sure is that Trump is not forthcoming with complete information.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:09 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: Yes. At the absolute best, it's redundancy.
Quote:And that's only if it were done on a temporary basis as a program to transition existing military service members out of an active duty role.
Quote:I don't agree, but not because it necessarily represents an numeric expansion (i.e. numbers of military volunteers increasing) but because it expands the scope of "military code of justice" to non-military situations even further. If there's any reason at all for putting recruits under "martial law" it's because they will be forced into a wartime situation, where obedience is required. But there's no reason to put people under "martial law" because they're learning how to make their beds, brush their teeth, and run a bulldozer.
Quote: That's kind of my point. If the end goal here is not actually lowering the existing numbers in the military
Quote: I fear that the numbers would rise because of how desperate people are going to become for any sort of meaningful jobs as more get shipped overseas or replaced with automation. ... I don't believe the Government would put any limits to how many people could join this program since the labor would be extremely cheap ... Who's to say that this wouldn't grow?
Quote: ... and they'd be signing over their lives on contract to the Government until their time was up. These "employees" would have no real say about the direction their lives go while enlisted ...
Quote: Everybody here knows how corrupt our Government and businesses are.
Quote: and by the time they could leave there might not be a whole lot of good paying jobs utilizing the skills they learned
Quote: if there are now twice as many new recruits in there as well as a waiting list, so they're probably much more likely to re-enlist for a small bonus or bump in pay for the next 4 years of their lives. This circle only stands to get more vicious as the ranks become professional caliber after re-enlisting 1 or 2 times because it's better than the alternatives.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 4:39 AM
Thursday, May 24, 2018 6:26 AM
CAPTAINCRUNCH
... stay crunchy...
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: You whine, bitch, and moan endlessly about Trump. I'd take it a lot more seriously if you didn't have such a big fucking double standard/ hole in your head.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 6:38 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: This will STILL be the military. People will go for basic training. They will be called up for combat duty if they need to defend the country.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 8:54 AM
Quote:I'd take you a little more seriously if you ...
Quote: ... realized that Obama is no longer president.
Quote:You and people of you ilk, constantly defend Trump (omg) by blaming someone who's out of work and has zero effect on your life. "If only you'd criticized John Tyler like this..." Big fucking transparent hole in your head.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 9:13 AM
Quote:Yes. At the absolute best, it's redundancy.- SIX Redundancy to what? To the non-existent national training and jobs programs? To the non-existent public works projects?- KIKI And that's only if it were done on a temporary basis as a program to transition existing military service members out of an active duty role. -SIX Why? just because you say so doesn't make it so. - KIKI I don't agree, but not because it necessarily represents an numeric expansion (i.e. numbers of military volunteers increasing) but because it expands the scope of "military code of justice" to non-military situations even further. If there's any reason at all for putting recruits under "martial law" it's because they will be forced into a wartime situation, where obedience is required. But there's no reason to put people under "martial law" because they're learning how to make their beds, brush their teeth, and run a bulldozer. - SIGNY This will STILL be the military. People will go for basic training. They will be called up for combat duty if they need to defend the country. - KIKI That's kind of my point. If the end goal here is not actually lowering the existing numbers in the military - SIX It's not. And I never said it was. It's to get us more value at home for government money spent on the military that would otherwise be wasted.- KIKI I fear that the numbers would rise because of how desperate people are going to become for any sort of meaningful jobs as more get shipped overseas or replaced with automation. ... I don't believe the Government would put any limits to how many people could join this program since the labor would be extremely cheap ... Who's to say that this wouldn't grow? - SIX Are you saying the government would somehow be 'forced' to admit the flood of applicants? And. Wait. Weren't you arguing this was such a bad deal no one would go for it? Do you think you can keep your arguments straight? 0 KIKI ... and they'd be signing over their lives on contract to the Government until their time was up. These "employees" would have no real say about the direction their lives go while enlisted ... SIX You mean, JUST EXACTLY LIKE HOW THINGS ARE NOW? - KIKI Everybody here knows how corrupt our Government and businesses are. SIX Do you have a point? - KIKI ... and by the time they could leave there might not be a whole lot of good paying jobs utilizing the skills they learned SIX ... And that's different from now ... how exactly? KIKI ... if there are now twice as many new recruits in there as well as a waiting list, so they're probably much more likely to re-enlist for a small bonus or bump in pay for the next 4 years of their lives. This circle only stands to get more vicious as the ranks become professional caliber after re-enlisting 1 or 2 times because it's better than the alternatives. - SIX And how's THAT different from now?- KIKI You just go round and round, and go nowhere.- SIX
Thursday, May 24, 2018 9:30 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: You don't believe in "compare and contrast" as a learning tool, because the concept that you MIGHT have something to learn has never entered your tiny, infantile, self-important mind!
Thursday, May 24, 2018 9:32 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: I'm not defending Trump, you nitwit. I'm simply saying that SECOND's moral code is ... ah ... "situational"? Biased? Hypocritical? SECOND is complaining about Trump being "not forthcoming". Well, if you apply THAT standard to every President back to ... Washington, maybe ... you'd have the same complaint. Presidents are NOT forthcoming. They usually do things that they don't telegraph ahead of time, and that includes Obama, Bill Clinton, and FDR, SECOND's Democratic saints. So obviously, that can't be SECOND's REAL complaint. He's either REALLY complaining about Trump's goals (as he perceives them) or what Trump says IN PLACE OF the truth. Because Obama, Bill Clinton, and FDR said what SECOND wanted to hear, in place of the truth. They said soothing things to the liberal audience, even as they betrayed the liberal cause. Right? I can't think of any other possibilities, can you? Well, of course you can't. You don't believe in "compare and contrast" as a learning tool, because the concept that you MIGHT have something to learn has never entered your tiny, infantile, self-important mind! TO YOU, even a simple exercise in logic ("compare and contrast") is somehow to be rejected.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:03 AM
Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:18 AM
Quote:Originally posted by captaincrunch: Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: You whine, bitch, and moan endlessly about Trump. I'd take it a lot more seriously if you didn't have such a big fucking double standard/ hole in your head. I'd take you a little more seriously if you realized that Obama is no longer president. You and people of you ilk, constantly defend Trump (omg) by blaming someone who's out of work and has zero effect on your life. "If only you'd criticized John Tyler like this..." Big fucking transparent hole in your head.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:36 AM
Quote: Note to Signym: Trump did not take the money directly; Trump's bagman took it.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:45 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: The problem here man is that somehow you think things would be any better had things gone the other way.
Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:49 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Oh yeah, the New York Times. The one that pushed the Saddam WMD lie. Do you think they would even KNOW a lie from the truth? So far, they haven't demonstrated that capability!
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