Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
[lots of other bs posted before the last line]

You say you think. I say you don't.

---

I look at numbers, and when you peel away either partisan skewing of them, they don't lie.

I can't even have a reasonable conversation with somebody who doesn't understand things like inflation, and says with a straight face that the Obama Administration was good for the economy or the working class.

I've been sober for going on a year now, idiot.

Don't even think for a second that you can step to my level now that I've got my mojo back and I'm clear headed. You're nothing but a lemming with low intelligence that is easy to lead around. Screaming your "five minutes hate" everyday because Rachel Maddow told you to. You are a follower. You are pathetic.

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I'll bite, who? Personally I never use the word nazis, and never refereed to anyone here as being one. Yes, I can't wait until Trump is gone, we get a patriot in office, and Russia gets it's due. As for them taking us over, well, that's just to funny.

---

DID YOU, OR DID YOU NOT ADVOCATE THAT EVERYBODY HERE SHOULD HATE ME, SIGNY AND KIKI?

---

Again, I did not. What I said was all Americans should hate ( dislike ) you. You, because you are helping to spread (nothing but negativity.) Negativity that bolsters what Sig and kiki post. Sig and kiki, because they are Russian trolls.

Understand Jack, I don't like you. You're a moron. Honest Jack, I'm honest. Something you are not. Your posts are full of hate yet you insist you are not hateful. Now stop crying like a baby, he hates me. Oh woe is me.


T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

I'd like to read about the tax plan. Do you have information about it that isn't from a biased source? I'd like to actually read the real details of it and come to my own conclusion.

---

Why, we have a 4.1% unemployment rate. Goldman Sacks predicts 4% growth next year. Trump tweeted today "there is a 10% rise in home ownership and the stock market is performing at record levels."

Why Jack, why would tax breaks for the rich that would add two trillion dollars to our deficit be good for the economy? You shouldn't need more information than that to come to the conclusion it would not.

As I said, this is purely a giveaway to the donor class that will decimate small business.

Another thing, because you labeled all main stream media outlets as fake, you don't know how to source any facts. And I quote you, "I'd like to read about the tax plan. Do you have information about it that isn't from a biased source? I'd like to actually read the real details of it and come to my own conclusion."

Sure Jack, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, The Washington Post, The New York Times and so on and so on, dummy. Try accessing the CBO report. How in gods name do you source any information Jack? You don't, and I've said that before. All you do is give opinions that can be found on any angry street corner.

Here you go Jack. Or is the Business Insider fake news as well?

ROSENBERG: The GOP tax plan could be devastating for future generations in America

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-tax-reform-deficit-rosenberg-
2017-11


T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I'll bite, who? Personally I never use the word nazis, and never refereed to anyone here as being one. Yes, I can't wait until Trump is gone, we get a patriot in office, and Russia gets it's due. As for them taking us over, well, that's just to funny.

---

DID YOU, OR DID YOU NOT ADVOCATE THAT EVERYBODY HERE SHOULD HATE ME, SIGNY AND KIKI?

---

Again, I did not. What I said was all Americans should hate ( dislike ) you. You, because you are helping to spread (nothing but negativity.) Negativity that bolsters what Sig and kiki post. Sig and kiki, because they are Russian trolls.

Understand Jack, I don't like you. You're a moron. Honest Jack, I'm honest. Something you are not. Your posts are full of hate yet you insist you are not hateful. Now stop crying like a baby, he hates me. Oh woe is me.


T

---

Jack, suck it up. You're whining like a little girl. I did say hate, it's written write there in my statement. Holly shit I can't believe this. Try this Jack. Fuck off, cry about that.
T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I'll bite, who? Personally I never use the word nazis, and never refereed to anyone here as being one. Yes, I can't wait until Trump is gone, we get a patriot in office, and Russia gets it's due. As for them taking us over, well, that's just to funny.

---

DID YOU, OR DID YOU NOT ADVOCATE THAT EVERYBODY HERE SHOULD HATE ME, SIGNY AND KIKI?

---

Again, I did not. What I said was all Americans should hate ( dislike ) you. You, because you are helping to spread (nothing but negativity.) Negativity that bolsters what Sig and kiki post. Sig and kiki, because they are Russian trolls.

Understand Jack, I don't like you. You're a moron. Honest Jack, I'm honest. Something you are not. Your posts are full of hate yet you insist you are not hateful. Now stop crying like a baby, he hates me. Oh woe is me.


T

---

Yes you did. You said HATE. There was absolutely no "(dislike)" even implied. You outright called for everybody on the board to hate me and others, while advocating that everybody in America should hate anybody who thinks like me.

With all the "Nazi" and "Commie" words that have been thrown around in the last year in here, I'm not going to add to that shit show... especially since I think it insults actual people who were oppressed and the words are completely wasted on somebody as insignificant as you are.

But...

Choose your words a little more carefully in the future. They are echoing the neo-liberal, regression line of "everybody is free to think how they want, so long as they think like me". We're not there yet, but that's how a lot of bad episodes in Human history began.




As to your other post...

I'll completely disregard the insults and say that Second already gave me a good start on what I was looking for. It looks like Second can actually do a bit of research and doesn't just regurgitate what Maddow and Olbermann tell him.

Thanks for the link Second. I'll check it out. (Not the Vox one, but the TaxPolicyCenter one).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Ah, I see....following the excuse-laden ideology of Trump supporters and goose-stepping prognosticators.

NEWSFLASH: Obama is no longer president, just another person. While I'm at it,
neither is Hillary. Got it! Sheesh! You guys can't help yourselves, can you?
Trump and the so-called Republicans are in charge now. Got it! Your ridiculously
orange dumb ass leader won the election and is now in the White House, remember?

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled program.....Tax Cuts!? Don't make me laugh.
You, me and everyone else will be paying higher taxes by 2021....meanwhile, rich folk will need extra heavy duty Brink's Trucks to haul the large amounts of cash to put into their bank accounts (this time IN the country, instead of overseas, because banking rules and regs will favor them as well).

Hey I have an idea, maybe you guys can get a job hauling their money. Sure, that makes sense now doesn't it? Of course that is if they don't hire illegal immigrants to do it. And just as sure, The Fucking Donald will blame Congress, and we begin the whole cycle all over again.

Oh this is gonna be REAL GOOD!


SGG

---

I think what you don't understand here SGG is that I think back to the past as well as into the future, and also contemplate what could have been (for better or for worse).

The big problem is that most people only think in the here and now. It's why they don't learn from their mistakes, and they fail miserably at preparing for the future time and time again until they die.

I'm not virtue signaling when I talk about how bad of a president I believed GWB to be. I absolutely hated his administration at the time. Obama made things worse in all 3 categories I lambasted the GWB admin for on these threads for years, and I just kind of said "fuck it" and went my own way. (I have a very long and very anti-GWB history on these boards, but you'll see that until Obama was on his way out I hardly said a single thing about him).

---

You think back, what good is that? You lived in a drunken stupor so your thinking in your past was all fucked up. All your years of perverted posting here bares witness to that. You think back? Who sourced the information that helped form the foundation of your beliefs? Certainly not school, where other educated people helped guide your thinking. And according to you, our media watch dogs are all fake news. "The press's watchdog role is to monitor the conduct of government officials and is vital to democracy." Including justice around the world Jack. Yet, as does Trump, you take every opportunity to call the media fake.

According to you, having an education is not worth the effort. According to you, all mainstream media is fake. Add to that there is no president in your time fame that was decent and worth respect. According to you ( who's only frame of reference is anger ) nothing Trump is doing is hurting America and Americans bad enough to warrant the ire you see here. Yet for one reason or another, all the other recent presidents do.

You are clueless. Take Trumps attack against our media for one. Attacks mirrored by you here. Global dictators are free to do as they please. Why, because Trump embraces them, and he labels the media as fake. Therefore any reporting on their digressions can be labeled fake as well. Why, because our president says so. It also heightens the danger to the media for reporting negatively about them. Why, because our president won't support them. Get it...

In addition, because of Trump, we have no eyes in those countries due to our state department being gutted. This leaves authoritarians to do as they please without consequence. No one to see it, no one to report on it.

The things this man if fucking up are limitless. You say you think. I say you don't.

---

An update on what I said the other day. Steve Schmidt John McCain's campaign manager said it today.

T

Quote:

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Originally posted by JO753:
Then therez the increasingly emboldened assault victimz. Trump haz at least a dozen that we no about and sertainly many more we hav yet to hear from.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

---

Quote:

---

Global dictators are free to do as they please. Why, because Trump embraces them, and he labels the media as fake. Therefore any reporting on their digressions can be labeled fake as well. Why, because our president says so. It also heightens the danger to the media for reporting negatively about them. Why, because our president won't support them. Get it...

In addition, because of Trump, we have no eyes in those countries due to our state department being gutted. This leaves authoritarians to do as they please without consequence. No one to see it, no one to report on it.

---

Quote:

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WINNERS AND LOSERS
The impact of the proposal on individual taxpayers differs depending on
their income sources, demographic and family statuses, and other characteristics that affect eligibility for certain tax benefits.

---

Quote:

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Our estimates of the number of taxpayers that would pay more tax
or less tax than under current law exclude certain minor provisions (listed in tables 4, 5, and 6) for which it is difficult to assign the tax changes to specific taxpayers.

Overall, the excluded provisions represent a net tax increase, so we are overestimating the number of taxpayers that would see a tax cut and underestimating the number of taxpayers that would see a tax increase.
In 2019, 76 percent of taxpayers would receive a tax cut from the included provisions, averaging almost $2,000, and about 9 percent would face an average tax increase of about $2,700 (table 4). In the bottom income quintile, 53 percent would receive a tax cut and 2 percent would face
a tax increase.

---

Quote:

---

In the middle income quintile, 88 percent would receive a tax cut and 11 percent would face a tax increase. In the top 1 percent of the income distribution, 86 percent would receive a tax cut and 14 percent would face a tax increase.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Here's my short answer, Trump's disastrous Tax Plan:

https://www.thebalance.com/trump-s-tax-plan-how-it-affects-you-4113968

Quote:

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How It Affects You

The Senate plan would help businesses more than individuals. Through 2027, business taxes would be lower overall. But individual taxes at every income level would increase by 2027. 
Among individuals, it would help higher income families the most. Everyone gets a tax cut in 2019. But in 2021, taxes will increase on those making $30,000 or less. By 2023, costs will rise on everyone who makes less than $40,000 a year. The tax cuts expire in 2025. As a result, all income levels will pay higher taxes in 2017. The tax increases are due to loss of deductions. That's according to the most recent analysis of the Senate plan by the Joint Committee on Taxation.
The Tax Policy Center found that taxpayers earning in the top 1 percent would receive a larger percent tax cut than those in lower income levels. By 2027, those in the lowest 20 percent would pay higher taxes.
The Tax Policy Center estimated the House bill would impose higher taxes on 31 percent of middle-class households in 2027. 
Both plans increase in the standard deduction will benefit 6 million taxpayers. That's 47.5 percent of all tax filers, according to Evercore ISI. But that's not enough to offset lost deductions for many income brackets.
Neither plan helps the lowest-income families. That's because more than 70 million Americans don't make enough to pay taxes. The plans also don't help the third of taxpayers who have incomes that fall below current standard deduction and personal exemptions, according to New York University law professor Lily Batchelder. 
Both plans increase the deficit by almost $1.5 trillion over the next 10 years. Budget-conscious Republicans have done an about-face. The party fought hard to pass sequestration. In 2011, some members even threatened to default on the debt rather than keep adding to it. Now they say that the tax cuts would boost the economy so much that the additional revenues would offset the tax cuts. They ignore the reasons why Reaganomics would not work today.
Furthermore, some tax breaks, like those for non-child dependents, end in five years. But House leaders admit that a future Congress will probably extend it, thus adding more to the national debt. If it isn't extended, then some middle-income taxpayers will see their taxes rise after 2023.
The Penn Wharton School of Business said the House plan would increase the $20 trillion debt by $2 trillion over its first 10 years. That includes $500 billion in additional interest on the debt. The Wharton study said the House plan would boost growth by 0.4 percent and 0.9 percent in its first 10 years. But it might not improve growth at all in the subsequent 10 years.
Increase in sovereign debt dampens economic growth in the long run. When a country's debt-to-GDP-ratio is more than 100 percent, investors get concerned. They demand higher yields on the nation's bonds, increasing interest rates. Those higher rates slow growth. 
The administration believes in supply-side economics. It says companies will use tax cuts to create jobs. It worked during the Reagan administration because the highest tax rate was 70 percent. According to the Laffer Curve, that's in the prohibitive range. The range occurs at tax levels so high that cuts boost growth enough to offset revenue loss. But trickle-down economics no longer works because the 2017 tax rates are half what they were in the 1980s. 
The most significant tax cuts should go to the middle class who are more likely to spend every dollar they get. The wealthy use tax cuts to save or invest. It helps the stock market but doesn't drive demand. Once demand is there, then businesses create jobs to meet it. Middle-class tax cuts create more jobs. But the best unemployment solution is government spending to build infrastructure and directly create jobs.

---

Notice that it says that by 2021, the people with incomes at $30K/yr or less will have their taxes increase, while the top earners will get a tax cut. In other words, the rich will get richer. Now, that may not be the "quantitative easing" bullshit, but it's not GOOD NEWS!

So this is the plan Trump and company, and the Republicans have come up with. Plus, they keep talking shit about the deficit, guess what this will add over a trillion dollars to the deficit over 10 years. Joe Schmoe is getting a new asshole and Trump and the people in charge now are making sure that they will be wearing their "strap-ons" - cause we're getting fucked, BUT GOOD! Not only that, but they are looking to dismantle completely the ACA, which means that health insurance will skyrocket beyond anything you could charge to Obama now. It will be beyond unaffordable.
Again, the little guy gets the shaft.

So tell me again,,,,,how is it that Trump is better than Bush, Obama, Clinton?
I agree, "we" the little guy need to do something constructive. Stop these motherfuckers from "peeing on us and telling us it's only rain." Right now, we need to press Congress and Senate to listen to "us" and fuck all this bickering, as you stated, this is what "they" want. For us to be distracted and not focus on the real problem.

Fuck Russia, and fuck anyone who doesn't work for "us", the people. Get those greedy bastards out. Stop dark money and the ultra rich from affecting the outcome of elections - Finance reform now. There is a small movement that has started and true democrats and real patriots are replacing corrupt politicos across the nation in the state legislature. But now we need to replace these greedy fucks in Congress and the Senate that side with the wealthy donor class over what's right for the majority of the people.

That's what's needed. Period - FULL STOP!


SGG

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JO753:
Then therez the increasingly emboldened assault victimz. Trump haz at least a dozen that we no about and sertainly many more we hav yet to hear from.

---

Links?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Ah, I see....following the excuse-laden ideology of Trump supporters and goose-stepping prognosticators.

NEWSFLASH: Obama is no longer president, just another person. While I'm at it,
neither is Hillary. Got it! Sheesh! You guys can't help yourselves, can you?
Trump and the so-called Republicans are in charge now. Got it! Your ridiculously
orange dumb ass leader won the election and is now in the White House, remember?

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled program.....Tax Cuts!? Don't make me laugh.
You, me and everyone else will be paying higher taxes by 2021....meanwhile, rich folk will need extra heavy duty Brink's Trucks to haul the large amounts of cash to put into their bank accounts (this time IN the country, instead of overseas, because banking rules and regs will favor them as well).

Hey I have an idea, maybe you guys can get a job hauling their money. Sure, that makes sense now doesn't it? Of course that is if they don't hire illegal immigrants to do it. And just as sure, The Fucking Donald will blame Congress, and we begin the whole cycle all over again.

Oh this is gonna be REAL GOOD!


SGG

---

I think what you don't understand here SGG is that I think back to the past as well as into the future, and also contemplate what could have been (for better or for worse).

The big problem is that most people only think in the here and now. It's why they don't learn from their mistakes, and they fail miserably at preparing for the future time and time again until they die.

I'm not virtue signaling when I talk about how bad of a president I believed GWB to be. I absolutely hated his administration at the time. Obama made things worse in all 3 categories I lambasted the GWB admin for on these threads for years, and I just kind of said "fuck it" and went my own way. (I have a very long and very anti-GWB history on these boards, but you'll see that until Obama was on his way out I hardly said a single thing about him).

---

You think back, what good is that? You lived in a drunken stupor so your thinking in your past was all fucked up. All your years of perverted posting here bares witness to that. You think back? Who sourced the information that helped form the foundation of your beliefs? Certainly not school, where other educated people helped guide your thinking. And according to you, our media watch dogs are all fake news. "The press's watchdog role is to monitor the conduct of government officials and is vital to democracy." Including justice around the world Jack. Yet, as does Trump, you take every opportunity to call the media fake.

According to you, having an education is not worth the effort. According to you, all mainstream media is fake. Add to that there is no president in your time fame that was decent and worth respect. According to you ( who's only frame of reference is anger ) nothing Trump is doing is hurting America and Americans bad enough to warrant the ire you see here. Yet for one reason or another, all the other recent presidents do.

You are clueless. Take Trumps attack against our media for one. Attacks mirrored by you here. Global dictators are free to do as they please. Why, because Trump embraces them, and he labels the media as fake. Therefore any reporting on their digressions can be labeled fake as well. Why, because our president says so. It also heightens the danger to the media for reporting negatively about them. Why, because our president won't support them. Get it...

In addition, because of Trump, we have no eyes in those countries due to our state department being gutted. This leaves authoritarians to do as they please without consequence. No one to see it, no one to report on it.

The things this man if fucking up are limitless. You say you think. I say you don't.

---

An update on what I said the other day. Steve Schmidt John McCain's campaign manager said it today.

T

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JO753:
The reazon woud be the GoPs fearing getting voted out due to outraje agenst the plan and thinking they can save their assez if they kick Trump out. Like 'he made us think we coud get away with it!'

The excuse told to the public woud be Russia, obstruction uv justis, sexual assault, emoluments, tax evasion, jeneral incompetens, or the next big thing to kum out.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Ah, I see....following the excuse-laden ideology of Trump supporters and goose-stepping prognosticators.

NEWSFLASH: Obama is no longer president, just another person. While I'm at it,
neither is Hillary. Got it! Sheesh! You guys can't help yourselves, can you?
Trump and the so-called Republicans are in charge now. Got it! Your ridiculously
orange dumb ass leader won the election and is now in the White House, remember?

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled program.....Tax Cuts!? Don't make me laugh.
You, me and everyone else will be paying higher taxes by 2021....meanwhile, rich folk will need extra heavy duty Brink's Trucks to haul the large amounts of cash to put into their bank accounts (this time IN the country, instead of overseas, because banking rules and regs will favor them as well).

Hey I have an idea, maybe you guys can get a job hauling their money. Sure, that makes sense now doesn't it? Of course that is if they don't hire illegal immigrants to do it. And just as sure, The Fucking Donald will blame Congress, and we begin the whole cycle all over again.

Oh this is gonna be REAL GOOD!


SGG

---

I think what you don't understand here SGG is that I think back to the past as well as into the future, and also contemplate what could have been (for better or for worse).

The big problem is that most people only think in the here and now. It's why they don't learn from their mistakes, and they fail miserably at preparing for the future time and time again until they die.

I'm not virtue signaling when I talk about how bad of a president I believed GWB to be. I absolutely hated his administration at the time. Obama made things worse in all 3 categories I lambasted the GWB admin for on these threads for years, and I just kind of said "fuck it" and went my own way. (I have a very long and very anti-GWB history on these boards, but you'll see that until Obama was on his way out I hardly said a single thing about him).

---

You think back, what good is that? You lived in a drunken stupor so your thinking in your past was all fucked up. All your years of perverted posting here bares witness to that. You think back? Who sourced the information that helped form the foundation of your beliefs? Certainly not school, where other educated people helped guide your thinking. And according to you, our media watch dogs are all fake news. "The press's watchdog role is to monitor the conduct of government officials and is vital to democracy." Including justice around the world Jack. Yet, as does Trump, you take every opportunity to call the media fake.

According to you, having an education is not worth the effort. According to you, all mainstream media is fake. Add to that there is no president in your time fame that was decent and worth respect. According to you ( who's only frame of reference is anger ) nothing Trump is doing is hurting America and Americans bad enough to warrant the ire you see here. Yet for one reason or another, all the other recent presidents do.

You are clueless. Take Trumps attack against our media for one. Attacks mirrored by you here. Global dictators are free to do as they please. Why, because Trump embraces them, and he labels the media as fake. Therefore any reporting on their digressions can be labeled fake as well. Why, because our president says so. It also heightens the danger to the media for reporting negatively about them. Why, because our president won't support them. Get it...

In addition, because of Trump, we have no eyes in those countries due to our state department being gutted. This leaves authoritarians to do as they please without consequence. No one to see it, no one to report on it.

The things this man if fucking up are limitless. You say you think. I say you don't.

---

An update on what I said the other day. Steve Schmidt John McCain's campaign manager said it today.

VIDEO REMOVED

---

Can't tell what kind of point you're trying to make, but using Libtard Activist Steve Schmidt as your reference is unlikely to bolster your argument.

---

That you're nuts and can't see beyond that. Steve Schmidt ran John McCain's presidential campaign. Yet you call him a libtard. Your thinking represents well some of the diseased thinking in this country. The Anti-Democratic Worldview of Steve Bannon.

T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
I haven’t seen anything yet to convince me that the Putin-Trump collaboration was a big deal. Ugly and unprincipled, sure, but politically consequential, probably not.

Let’s speculate on the political fallout from a potential prosecutor’s report that Trump cut deals with Putin before taking office. Is this something that nobody on either side of the aisle could possibly defend? What happens if the Republicans in the House and Senate say, hey, it’s just a bureaucratic detail, since he was already elected? And why wouldn’t they say this? How would that be any more outrageous than anything else they’ve said or done in recent memory? Who would stop them?

The “who would stop them” thing is what it’s all about. Modern movement conservatism is about winning, period. To worry about honesty, consistency or any other check on your political options is to be a loser. This is why we hear made-up stories about the effect of taxes and voter fraud laws, when the ones promulgating them know they’re false and know you and I know they’re false. They don’t care, except about winning, which they’ve become good at. Give me a scenario in which the Republican congressional establishment does not shrug off a report against Trump.

Trump is not invulnerable, and scandal may drag him down, but it won’t be over points of law that matter only to people who believe in the rule of law. The 2018 election could change that, but only if it breaks a lot bluer than currently expected. A damning report against Trump could influence the vote, but only if it appears in the last week or two of the campaign, before tribal cohesion reestablishes itself.

---

Well, trying to set up a back channel going though the Russian Embassy in an attempt to bypass our Intel agencies, and our elected officials in the senate and house, if true, sounds criminal to me.

That said, Mueller and his people aren't leaking. All we know is what has been found out by the press and leaked, many times by the White House. Those close to and working for Trump.

Well, that and that so far 4 of Trumps people have been charged with crimes within his first year of office. Two of which have already plead guilty.


T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
I haven’t seen anything yet to convince me that the Putin-Trump collaboration was a big deal. Ugly and unprincipled, sure, but politically consequential, probably not.

Let’s speculate on the political fallout from a potential prosecutor’s report that Trump cut deals with Putin before taking office. Is this something that nobody on either side of the aisle could possibly defend? What happens if the Republicans in the House and Senate say, hey, it’s just a bureaucratic detail, since he was already elected? And why wouldn’t they say this? How would that be any more outrageous than anything else they’ve said or done in recent memory? Who would stop them?

The “who would stop them” thing is what it’s all about. Modern movement conservatism is about winning, period. To worry about honesty, consistency or any other check on your political options is to be a loser. This is why we hear made-up stories about the effect of taxes and voter fraud laws, when the ones promulgating them know they’re false and know you and I know they’re false. They don’t care, except about winning, which they’ve become good at. Give me a scenario in which the Republican congressional establishment does not shrug off a report against Trump.

Trump is not invulnerable, and scandal may drag him down, but it won’t be over points of law that matter only to people who believe in the rule of law. The 2018 election could change that, but only if it breaks a lot bluer than currently expected. A damning report against Trump could influence the vote, but only if it appears in the last week or two of the campaign, before tribal cohesion reestablishes itself.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Did Trump sanction Flynns discussions with Russia at the very time Putin was hacking us and trying to have an influence on our election? Just this morning Flynn tweeted "scapegoat"

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Only 2,606 days remaining on the Impeachment Clock.

.,Pretty exciting now.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Quote:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Did Trump sanction Flynns discussions with Russia at the very time Putin was hacking us and trying to have an influence on our election? Just this morning Flynn tweeted "scapegoat"

---

The first person to come out in favor of a soft coup, when the presidency was a mere 32 days old. Because ... Russia.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by G:
My only question is: how much bigger will the crowds be at his impeachment than at his inauguration?

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Originally posted by JO753:
BIGGEST. AUDIENS. EVAR. Let me tell you, you wont believe it incredible believe me terrrific ratingz.

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Originally posted by second:
It does not matter what the trivial criminal charge is against Trump, every Democratic Senator would vote against him.

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Anyway, funny how you keep saying no evidence yet, as if that means anything at all before charges have been filed.

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:
President Donald Trump is a slime-ball, non-aristocrat, pathetic, bad joke.
... But with his foolish egomania, he's dangerous, too.

Used to be, we often elected Statesmen, professionals in governing.
Our second choice was often a general.

Guys who could spell and define "responsibility."


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Anyway, funny how you keep saying no evidence yet, as if that means anything at all before charges have been filed.

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I keep saying there's no evidence yet, because, as you agree, there is no evidence yet.

So, what have you been going on about for nearly a year?

Oh, that's right - the line of propaganda you get paid to push, to help that soft coup along.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Maybe giving up arguing with liberal meat-puppets.

1 year later and still waiting for something...anything to happen is all.

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Maybe giving up arguing with liberal meat-puppets.

1 year later and still waiting for something...anything to happen is all.

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This happened today:
Trump lawyer offers new defense of tweet: president 'cannot obstruct justice'.

John Dowd originally said he, as Trump's lawyer, erroneously wrote in Trump’s name on Twitter that the president knew Flynn lied to the FBI. Dowd's claim was met with skepticism because the claim is intended to absolve Trump of an Obstructing Justice charge. So the lawyer has another defense this morning: “The president cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under [the constitution’s Article II] and has every right to express his view of any case.”

Contradicting Trump's lawyer is Bob Bauer, a New York University law professor and former White House counsel to Barack Obama, who said: “It is certainly possible for a president to obstruct justice.”

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/04/doesnt-make-sense-incredulity-
trumps-lawyer-john-dowd-take-blame-for-flynn-tweet

I think it is safe to say that very few Republicans believe it is illegal for Trump to fire the FBI director to protect Flynn from being investigated. Only if Obama had done the firing would it have been illegal.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I think the argument here is whether it is obstructing justice in the legal sense of the word, or if his actions are just obstructing justice. There is a difference.

I have said that it was an unwise move to do this in front of the public if there indeed is anything that Trump or his administration has to hide.

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I believe the better view, supported by a reading of the Constitution, is that the president cannot say to a prosecutor, "I know Person A lied to you, which is a felony, but you should drop the investigation against Person A." Those who drew up articles of impeachment against former Presidents Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton clearly thought the president could be guilty of obstruction of justice because that charge was included against both of them.

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If the president interferes or impedes an FBI investigation with "corrupt intent," that's obstruction of justice under 18 USC 1512(c)(2). Trump has essentially confessed three times to his corrupt intent in firing Comey: on May 10 in the Oval Office, on May 11 to NBC's Lester Holt, and then in his tweet on Saturday (awareness that Flynn had committed a crime).

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I think the argument here is whether it is obstructing justice in the legal sense of the word, or if his actions are just obstructing justice. There is a difference.

I have said that it was an unwise move to do this in front of the public if there indeed is anything that Trump or his administration has to hide.

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The tax bill passed by the Senate was an unwise move, too, but there won't be any consequences because most GOP voters don't understand taxes. (By the way, I am 100% in favor of that scribbled, crazy tax bill. I'm already planning how I spend my $millions unearned windfall. ) Look at some pages from the bill:
www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/12/02/handwriting-wall-and-page-senat
e-passes-tax-bill/915957001/

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