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Originally posted by whozit:
The big loser, (drum roll) Lester Holt. He'll get to stay A-List but I bet his ratings drop. As the polls come in it looks like Trump is the winner. Trump didn't take the bait when Hillary tried to get him to bring up Bills sexcapades, he didn't bite. My guess they wanted him too so they could get a shot of her family looking sad and shocked, he didn't give them that.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by whozit:
The big loser, (drum roll) Lester Holt. He'll get to stay A-List but I bet his ratings drop. As the polls come in it looks like Trump is the winner. Trump didn't take the bait when Hillary tried to get him to bring up Bills sexcapades, he didn't bite. My guess they wanted him too so they could get a shot of her family looking sad and shocked, he didn't give them that.

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•A poll of debate watchers by CNN/ORC, which found that 62 percent thought Clinton won and 27 percent thought Trump did. CNN’s David Chalian emphasized on air that the sample was 10 points more Democratic than in a typical poll, but that’s still a strong win for Clinton.

•A poll of debate watchers by Public Policy Polling, which found that 51 percent thought Clinton won and 40 percent thought Trump won.

•A focus group of 20 undecided Florida voters by CNN found that 18 of them thought Clinton won.

•And a focus group of Pennsylvania voters by GOP pollster Frank Luntz overwhelmingly thought Clinton had won.


____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Originally posted by whozit:

I'm not trusting any CNN polls these days.

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Originally posted by SECOND:
Where is economic growth going to come from?

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In the debate, Trump thinks it only comes from one place.

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Clinton sees many.

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Presidents have limited power to change the fundamental drivers of economic growth, which include consumer spending, population change, and business investment.

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Here’s the distinction in a nutshell: Trump would try to boost growth by forcing companies to stay in America and pushing immigrants out. Clinton would try to boost growth by making America a more attractive place to invest, making American workers more attractive to employ, and making sure people have enough in their pockets to revive the kind of consumer demand that has fueled America’s economic engine since the end of World War II.

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Trump laid out his philosophy when debate moderator Lester Holt asked how Trump would raise wages and create new jobs in America. (He’s promised 25 million of them, which is demographically impossible without an increase in immigration that he opposes.)

Trump answered in exactly one dimension: Manufacturing jobs that in recent decades have migrated to Mexico and China. He’d bring them back, he and his advisers say, by charging steep tariffs on imports and slashing corporate tax rates so that companies bring cash back from overseas. “That’s going to be a job creator like we haven’t seen since Ronald Reagan,” Trump said. “It’s going to be a beautiful thing to watch.”

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There are a number of problems with that simple prescription, which itself is based on faulty assumptions about the current dynamics of global trade.

First, although Trump isn’t wrong that trade deals played a role in manufacturing job loss, the movement of manufacturing overseas was, to a large extent, going to happen anyway.

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Second, even if he magically forced companies to return all of their manufacturing output to the United States, it could never replace all the jobs that were lost, since advancing technology allows companies to produce the same amount of stuff with many fewer people.

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Clinton, of course, also opposes the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal that Trump has vilified. She, too, visits old manufacturing plants and talks about revitalizing them into high-tech wonder plants that will employ some of the millions of mostly men who've faded from the labor force in recent years.

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But while Trump stops there, Clinton goes further. She's spent the last several years stuffing an economic toolbox with plans for investing in clean energy, bringing more women and disabled people into the workforce, allowing young people to go to college without taking on crippling debt, creating a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants

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, reining in the parasitic financial sector and putting capital to work at businesses that will use it to create jobs, not just play the stock market.
And critically, she understands the importance of raising wages for workers in the service jobs, to re-store the consumer class that weakened as well-paid manufacturing jobs faded away.

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Progressives have termed this approach "middle-out economics," rather than what Clinton called the "Trumped-up trickle-down" philosophy, referring to the Reagan-era idea of giving tax breaks to the wealthy in hopes that they would use the windfall to create more jobs. Targeting lower-income workers, Clinton figures, will have a bigger economic impact. "The more we can do for the middle class, the more we can invest in you, your education, your skills, your future, the better we will be off and the better we'll grow," she said.

At a recent event in Houston, Dallas Federal Reserve President Robert Kaplan briefly laid out the federal budget policy he thought should have complemented low interest rates to address the aging of the population that has created such strong headwinds for the economy, since there are fewer and fewer working-age people to support all the retirees. Without commenting on the presidential race, he essentially backed up Clinton's approach.

"We need to do things to increase the size of the workforce," Kaplan said. "Vocational training. As controversial as it is, some agreement or compromise on immigration, particularly skilled immigration. Maybe incentives that cause people to work longer in their career, so we don't have a deterioration in the workforce. Infrastructure spending in the United States."

It's true, many of these things cost money. But if billionaires like Trump paid more of their taxes, a lot more money might become available. And simply by virtue of trying lots more ideas, Clinton has a better chance of jump-starting the economy than pursuing one strategy — forcing companies to return jobs to the U.S. — that relies on history turning itself backwards instead of forwards.
www.houstonchronicle.com/business/texanomics/article/Where-is-economic
-growth-going-to-come-from-9294789.php

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The DNC hired a computer security firm, CrowdStrike, to investigate the breach. It has publicly attributed the operation to two known hacker groups connected to the Russian government that it dubs Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear....
The two groups, which compete with one another, got into the DNC networks last summer and this April, respectively, CrowdStrike told The Washington Post, which first reported the breaches last month.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
This where I found a serious problem with Hillary (and the media).

She seems to go by the motto

If you lie, lie BIG! (And, note to self, make sure the media is with you.)

In this first debate, Hillary stated “(Putin has) let loose cyber attackers to hack into government files, to hack into personal files, hack into the Democratic National Committee". But in the post-debate fact-checking frenzy, no one has bothered to fact-check this particular claim. That seems a pretty large gap in all this information-vetting.

In fact, unless Hillary’s received private information directly from the FBI - or indeed some other government security agency – Hillary’s claim runs contrary to all public statements: NO GOVERNMENT AGENCY has identified Russia as the source of the hack.

Not then, and not now.

I’ve been following this ever since the claim first came out, because it smelled – yanno – fishy. It came out in just a few days, and from a private firm hired by the DNC. How could they possibly ferret that out so quickly, especially when the FBI, with all its resources, could only claim they were ‘still investigating’?

But by then the claim was dutifully accepted by the media and - pardon the pun - trumped up beyond all reason. And it still continues today to be loudly asserted over and over by people who DO know better (like Hillary), and is still not challenged by people who SHOULD know better (especially not by the media).

Meanwhile, the much more low key and responsible statements made by Clapper at the time were buried pretty far down in the news. And there’s been zero follow-up or prominent press about what the FBI thinks since then.

So, I did some google searching about Hillary’s claim, because, while google doesn’t know all, it’s a reasonable place to start when you want to find something out and the media looks like it’s part of the problem of making news out of non-facts.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So, what did Gary Johnson say in the Debate?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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How do individuals go about their hacking?
While carrying out an attack the level of the DNC hack requires skill and manpower that individuals don't possess,

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
None found, but because there is no hard evidence doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. The FBI suspects it was Russia, but have had their hands tied by a Republican-led Congress. Meanwhile Hillary's e-mails are the hot topic of the day. I could see why you insist that the probe continue; you feel she lies. Trump, of course, he's totally beyond reproach and is innocent in all this. He never lies.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Hillary, aside form being an alcoholic,

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Trump and Hillary are equally corrupt. Trump engages in what used to be called "sharp" business deals: deals where the fine print in his contracts allowed him to do whatever benefitted him.

Hillary, aside form being an alcoholic, got over 30,000 people uselessly killed in Libya and is partly responsible for another 1000,000 more if Syria and elsewhere. Her personal business dealing involve her drug-traficking husband.

So, ethically, they're a wash.

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Originally posted by SECOND:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Trump and Hillary are equally corrupt. Trump engages in what used to be called "sharp" business deals: deals where the fine print in his contracts allowed him to do whatever benefitted him.

Hillary, aside form being an alcoholic, got over 30,000 people uselessly killed in Libya and is partly responsible for another 1000,000 more if Syria and elsewhere. Her personal business dealing involve her drug-traficking husband.

So, ethically, they're a wash.

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Is it Hillary's fault that Colonel Gaddafi was in charge of Libya for 42 years and his only plan for peacefully handing power to the next leader was to give it to his son? Is it Hillary's fault that Gaddafi had been using the mutual hostilities of different tribes to stay in power because keeping them divided is what kept him in control? Is it Hillary's fault that the price of oil dropped and that limited the amount of bribes Gaddafi could pay to tribal leaders to keep the peace? Is it Hillary's fault that these different tribes did not want the son to rule over them and they decided to fight for power because Gaddafi had exhausted their patience with his endless promises and schemes to keep every tribe divided against all the other tribes? Gaddafi ran short of money and stamina to keep the tribes from fighting.

Is it Hillary's fault that Syria is the same damn story as Libya, except the old Syrian President successfully passed power to his son, who is killing Syrians to remain in power? Gaddafi's son would have done the same. Syria had 2,500,000,000 barrels of petroleum reserves as of 1 January 2010 according to the Oil and Gas Journal. That amount of oil is worth killing to control and President Bashar al-Assad kills Syrians for the reward in prestige and money. It has nothing to do with Hillary.

On the flipside of this vinyl record Signym keeps playing, it is definitely Trump's fault that he violated the contracts he wrote, and not just the fine print technical details only lawyers read. Trump has been sued thousands of times to get him to keep minimum standards of behavior.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Trump remains ensnared in Miss Universe trap Clinton set

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In an email sent to his business partner and Democratic fundraiser Jeffrey Leeds, former Secretary of State Colin Powell wrote of Hillary Clinton, “Everything HRC touches she kind of screws up with hubris.”

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Clinton’s tenure as Secretary of State during Barack Obama’s first term was an unmitigated disaster for many nations around the world. Neither the Donald Trump campaign nor the corporate media have adequately described how a number of countries around the world suffered horribly from Mrs. Clinton’s foreign policy decisions.

Millions of people were adversely harmed by Clinton’s misguided policies and her “pay-to-play” operations involving favors in return for donations to the Clinton Foundation and Clinton Global Initiative.

The following is a before and after recap, country by country, of the destabilizing effects of Clinton’s policies as Secretary of State:
Abkhazia

Before Hillary: In 2009, more and more nations began recognizing the independence of this nation that broke away from Georgia and successfully repelled a U.S.-supported Georgian invasion in 2008.

After Hillary: Clinton pressured Vanuatu and Tuvalu to break off diplomatic relations with Abkhazia in 2011. The State Department pressured the governments of India, Germany, and Spain to refuse to recognize the validity of Abkhazian passports and, in violation of the US-UN Treaty, refused to permit Abkhazian diplomats to visit UN headquarters in New York. The Clinton State Department also threatened San Marino, Belarus, Ecuador, Bolivia, Cuba, Somalia, Uzbekistan, and Peru with recriminations if they recognized Abkhazia. Georgia was connected to Clinton through the representation of Georgia in Washington by the Podesta Group, headed by Tony Podesta, the brother of Mrs. Clinton’s close friend and current campaign chairman John Podesta.
Argentina

Before Hillary: Under President Nestor Kirchner and his wife Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, Argentina’s economy improved and the working class and students prospered.

After Hillary: After former president Nestor Kirchner’s sudden death in 2010, the U.S. embassy in Buenos Aires became a nexus for anti-Kirchner activities, including the fomenting of political and labor protests against the government. Meanwhile, Clinton pressed Argentina hard on its debt obligations to the IMF, also crippling the economy.
Bolivia

Before Hillary: Bolivia’s progressive president Evo Morales, the country’s first indigenous Aymara leader, provided government support to the country’s coca farmers and miners. Morales also committed his government to environmental protection. He kept his country out of the Free Trade Area of the Americas and helped start the Peoples’ Trade Agreement with Venezuela and Cuba.

After Hillary: Clinton permitted the U.S. embassy in La Paz to stir up separatist revolts in four mostly European-descent Bolivian provinces, as well as foment labor strikes among miners and other workers in the same model used in Venezuela.
Brazil

Before Hillary: Brazil’s progressive presidents, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and Dilma Rousseff, ushered in a new era for the country, with workers’ and students' rights at the forefront and environmental protection and economic development for the poor major priorities.

After Hillary: Clinton’s authorization of massive electronic spying from the US embassy in Brasilia and consulate general in Rio de Janeiro resulted in a “constitutional coup” against Rousseff and the Workers’ Party government, ushering in a right-wing, CIA-supported corrupt government.
Central African Republic

Before Hillary: Under President Francois Bozize, the CAR remained relatively calm under a peace agreement hammered out under the auspices of Muammar Qaddafi’s Libya.

After Hillary: In 2012, Islamist terrorists of the Seleka movement and supported by Saudi Arabia conducted an uprising, massacring Christians and riving Bozize’s government from power. The CAR became a failed state under Clinton’s State Department.
Ecuador

Before Hillary: Ecuador began sharing its oil wealth with the people and the economy and the plight of the nation’s poor improved.

After Hillary: Clinton authorized a 2010 National Police coup against President Rafael Correa. The economy soon plunged as labor disputes wracked the mining and oil sectors.
Egypt

Before Hillary: Under Hosni Mubarak, Egypt was a stable secular nation that suppressed jihadist politics in the mosques. The jihadist-oriented Muslim Brotherhood was kept at bay.

After Hillary: After Clinton’s 2011 “Arab Spring” and the toppling of Mubarak, Egypt saw Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood elected president. Immediately, the secular country began a process of Islamization with Christian Copts experiencing repression and violence, including massacres. Morsi’s rule resulted in a military coup, thus ending Egypt’s previous moves toward democracy.
Germany

Before Hillary: The nation was a peaceful country where German culture, as well as religious freedom and women’s rights were guaranteed.

After Hillary: Clinton’s “Arab Spring” eventually resulted in a flood of mainly Muslim refugees being welcomed into Germany from the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia. Today, Germany is wracked by Muslim refugee street crime, unsanitary and harmful public health habits of migrants, sexual assaults by migrant men of women and children, increased acts of terrorism, and a diminution of German culture and religious practices.
Greece

Before Hillary: Greece was a nation that saw government safety net social services extended to all in need. It also remained a top tourist destination for northern Europeans.

After Hillary: The 2010 debt crisis emaciated the Greek economy and Clinton remained adamant that Greece comply with draconian economic measures dictated by Germany, the European Union, and the IMF/World Bank. Making matters worse, Clinton’s “Arab Spring” eventually resulted in a flood of mainly Muslim refugees being welcomed into first, the Greek isles, and then mainland Greece, from the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia. Today, Greece, especially the islands of Lesbos, Chios, Samos, Symi, Rhodes, Leros, and Kos, are wracked by Muslim refugee crime, unsanitary public health habits of migrants, sexual assaults by migrant men of women and children, acts of arson and vandalism, and a diminution of Greek culture and religious practices.
Guatemala

Before Hillary: Under President Alvaro Colom, the nation’s first populist progressive president, the poor received access to health, education, and social security.

After Hillary: Clinton authorized the U.S. embassy in Guatemala to work against the 2011 election of president Colom’s wife, Sandra Torres. Colom was succeeded by a right-wing corrupt president who resigned for corruption and then was arrested.
Haiti

Before Hillary: Haiti was prepared in 2011 to re-elect Jean-Bertrand Aristide, forced out of office and into exile in a 2004 CIA coup. The prospects of Artistide’s return to power was a blessing for the slum dwellers of Haiti.

After Hillary: Clinton refused to allow Aristide to return to Haiti from exile in South Africa until it was too late for him to run in the 2011 election. Under a series of U.S.-installed presidents, all approved by Bill and Hillary Clinton, Haiti is a virtual cash cow for the Clintons. The Clinton Foundation diverted for its own use, international aid to Haiti, and the Clintons ensured that their wealthy friends in the hotel, textile, and construction businesses landed lucrative contracts for Haitian projects, none of which have benefited the Haitian poor and many of which resulted in sweat shops and extremely low wage labor practices.
Honduras

Before Hillary: Emergent multi-party democracy with a populist progressive president, Manuel Zelaya. Children received free education, poor children received free school meals, interest rates were reduced, and the poorest families were given free electricity.

After Hillary: Clinton authorized a military coup d’etat against Zelaya in 2009. Clinton family “fix-it” man Lanny Davis became a public relations flack for the military dictatorship. A fascist dictatorship involved in extrajudicial death squad killings of journalists, politicians, and indigenous leaders followed the “constitutional coup” against Zelaya. During 2012, Clinton ordered U.S. embassy in Tegucigalpa to work against the 2013 election of Xiomara Castro de Zelaya as president.
Iraq

Before Hillary: Under Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, Iraq experienced small moves toward an accommodation with the Kurds of the north and Sunnis. Iran acted as a moderating political force in the country that deterred any attempts by Saudi-supported jihadis to disrupt the central government in Baghdad.

After Hillary: Clinton’s Arab Spring resulted in the rise of the Sunni/Wahhabist Islamic State in northern and western Iraq and Iraq’s plunge into failed state status. Shi’as, Kurds, Yazidis, Assyrian Christians, and moderate Sunnis were massacred by the jihadis in northern, western, and central Iraq. The Iraqi cities of Mosul, Kirkuk, and Nineveh fell to ISIL forces with non-Muslims being raped, tortured, and executed and priceless antiquities being destroyed by the marauding jihadists.
Kosovo

Before Hillary: Kosovo, which became independent in 2008, initially granted its Serbian minority in northern Kosovo and Metohija some degree of self-government.

After Hillary: In 2009, Kosovo increasingly became a state ruled by criminal syndicates and terrorists of the former Kosovo Liberation Army. The rights of Serbs were increasingly marginalized and Kosovo became a prime recruiting ground for jihadist guerrillas in Arab countries subjected to Clinton’s “Arab Spring” operations, including Libya and Syria.

Clinton pressured states receiving U.S. aid and other U.S. allies to recognize Kosovo’s independence. These included Pakistan, Palau, Maldives, St. Kitts-Nevis, Dominica, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, Burundi, East Timor, Haiti, Chad, Gambia, Brunei, Ghana, Kuwait, Ivory Coast, Gabon, St. Lucia, Benin, Niger, Guinea, Central African Republic, Andorra, Oman, Guinea-Bissau, Qatar, Tuvalu, Kiribati, Honduras, Somalia, Djibouti, Vanuatu, Swaziland, Mauritania, Malawi, New Zealand, Dominican Republic, Jordan, Bahrain, and Comoros. In the Kosovo capital of Pristina, there is a 10-foot-high statue of Bill Clinton standing over Bill Clinton Boulevard. Not far away is a women’s clothing store called “Hillary.”
Libya

Before Hillary: Under Muammar Qaddafi, post-sanction Libya saw a boom in urban construction and a new major international airport to serve as a hub for Africa. Plans announced for an African dinar, supported by Libyan gold holdings, to serve the needs of Africa. All Libyans received free education and medical care. There was a program for revenue sharing of Libya’s oil wealth with the Libyan people.

After Hillary: Clinton’s 2011 regime change operations against Qaddafi, which saw the Libyan leader sodomized, beaten, and shot in the head by U.S.-supervised jihadist rebels, resulted in Clinton laughing about the incident in the infamous, “We came, we saw, he died” comment. Libya became a failed state where Islamic jihadist terrorists vied for control of the country and Qaddafi’s arm caches were given or sold to jihadist terrorists in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, the pan-Sahel region, and sub-Saharan Africa. After Qaddafi’s ouster, black African guest workers and their families were massacred by jihadist forces.
Malaysia

Before Hillary: Malaysia, before 2009, was a religiously tolerant nation where Buddhists, Christians, and Hindus enjoyed freedom of religion.

After Hillary: In 2009, Najib Razak became prime minister and he began accepting bribes from Saudi Arabia that totaled some $2.6 billion with additional Malaysian public money in Razak’s personal bank accounts plus the Saudi cash totaling some $3.5 billion. Razak began allowing Saudi-influenced clerics to push for sharia law throughout Malaysia and Christians in Sarawak, Sabah, and Penang began experiencing Wahhabist repression. Clinton was silent about Malaysian persecution of non-Muslims. The reason may have been a reported several hundred million donation from Razak’s slush fund into the Clinton Foundation’s coffers.
Palestine

Before Hillary: In 2012, Palestine was granted non-member observer status in the United nations. The 2009 Goldstone Report of the UN found that Israel violated international humanitarian law in its war against Gaza in 2009. Palestine was gaining more support and sympathy internationally and was successfully putting to rest Israeli propaganda disinformation.

After Hillary: Hillary Clinton rejected the Goldstone Report as “one-sided.” Clinton’s unbridled support for expanding Israeli settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem and its silence on the dehumanizing Israeli blockade of Gaza, emboldened Israel’s theocratic right-wing government to further encroach on Palestinian territories and cementing into place an apartheid-like series of Palestinian “Bantustans” in the West Bank and an open-air ghetto in Gaza.
Paraguay

Before Hillary: The country under Fernando Lugo began lifting out of poverty the nation’s rural campesinos and urban workers. Paraguay also began a steady move toward democratization after years of military dictatorships.

After Hillary: Clinton’s 2012 “constitutional coup” against Fernando Lugo brought back into power the military-industrial oligarchy with the nation’s campesinos being forced back into poverty and repressive rule.
South Sudan

Before Hillary: Prior to independence in 2011, South Sudan, while rife with intra-tribal feuding, was relatively calm.

After Hillary: After being rushed into independence from Sudan in 2011, South Sudan, a special project of Clinton, George Soros, and actor George Clooney, descended into civil war and chaos. It beat all records in being transformed from a newly-independent state into a failed state.
Syria

Before Hillary: Syria was a multi-cultural and multi-religious secular state championing the concept of pan-Arab socialism and progressive policies advanced by Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser. Syria was not a safe place for jihadism.

After Hillary: After Clinton’s 2011 green light for the “Arab Spring,” Syria became a failed state where the Islamic State gained a firm foothold. Minority Alawites, Christians, Druze, and Kurds were massacred by jihadist groups aided and abetted by NGOs and other interests backed by Clinton.
Thailand

Before Hillary: Thailand’s Red Shirt movement was a powerful force that demanded a return to democracy in Thailand and the restoration of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted in a 2006 military coup, to power.

After Hillary: A Red Shirt protest in 2010 resulted in a bloody crackdown by the Thai military. Clinton remained silent about the Thai army’s killing of protesters and the mass arrests of Red Shirt leaders. U.S. military assistance to the Thai government was continued by Clinton. When Thaskin’s sister, Yingluck Shinawatra, became prime minister in 2011, Clinton began working to undermine her and her government in a manner not unlike Clinton’s subterfuge against Rousseff in Brazil and Cristina Kirchner in Argentina. When it comes to women leaders, Clinton only tolerates conservatives who kow-tow to the United States. The pressure against Yingluck eventually resulted in her ouster in 2014 and her being criminally charged in the same manner that saw Rousseff charged in Brazil.
Tunisia

Before Hillary: Tunisia was one of the most secular nations in the Arab and Islamic world. A top destination for European tourists, the country was more European in its outlook than North African.

After Hillary: After Clinton’s 2011 “Jasmine Revolution,” a textbook themed revolution crafted by Clinton’s friend George Soros, Tunisia descended into Islamist rule and violence. Today, Tunisia is the top country for recruits to the Islamic State.
Turkey

Before Hillary: Turkey was moving steadily closer to European standards on human rights and democracy. Even under the Islamist-oriented Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the country remained committed to pluralism.

After Hillary: Clinton authorized the shipment of Libyan weapons captured from Qaddafi’s arms caches to Turkish middlemen in the employment of Erdogan’s government for transfer to the jihadist rebels in Syria. A complication in this arrangement resulted in the September 11, 2012 jihadist attack on the CIA warehouse facility in Benghazi, which killed U.S. envoy Chris Stevens and other State Department personnel. Turkey’s dalliance with jihadist rebels in Syria was mirrored by increasing Islamization of Turkey. The events of 2011 and 2012 resulted in Turkey today being ruled by an Islamist strongman, Erdogan, with open political opposition being stamped out.
Ukraine

Before Hillary: Ukraine was a stable and neutral country that neither aligned itself with the West and NATO nor with Russia under the presidency of Viktor Yanukovych, elected in 2009 and inaugurated in 2010.

After Hillary: Clinton tried everything possible to ensure the 2009 defeat of Viktor Yanukovych. The State Department and its friends in the George Soros camp provided assistance to Clinton’s favorite candidate Yulia Tymoshenko to defeat Yanokovych. It was this early interference in the 2009 election that ultimately led to the “Euromaidan” themed revolution in 2014 against the government, resulting in civil war, the retrocession of Crimea back to Russia, and secessionist states in eastern Ukraine. Clinton’s policies directly led to a failed state in Europe.
Venezuela

Before Hillary: Under Hugo Chavez, the country provided basic social services to its poorest of citizens. Venezuela also provided discounted gasoline to several Caribbean and Central American countries through the PetroCaribe consortium.

After Hillary: After Clinton allowed the U.S. embassy in Caracas to foment anti-Chavez labor and political protests, the country began to falter economically. After Chavez’s 2012 diagnosis of terminal cancer, the State Department stepped up pressure on Venezuela, crippling the nation’s economy and political system.
Western Sahara

Before Hillary: Recognized by the African Union and several nations around the world as the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (SADR), Western Sahara saw some hope for an evacuation of illegal Moroccan occupation troops from its territory.

After Hillary: In 2010, Moroccan troops began entering Sahrawi refugee camps and attacking residents, even in UN-protected exclusion zones, where Moroccan troops were prohibited from entering. Clinton ensured that UN talks and a proposed popular referendum on the future of Western Sahara were stalled. Clinton pressured a number of states to withdraw their recognition of the SADR, including St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Paraguay, Haiti, Guinea-Bissau, Cape Verde, Malawi, Kenya, Mauritius, Zambia, Panama, and Burundi. The Clinton Foundation received a 2011 donation of $1 million from a Moroccan phosphate company owned by the Moroccan government and which has mining operations in Western Sahara.
Yemen

Before Hillary: Yemen was a largely secular state that was transforming into a federation where the rights of South Yemen and the Zaidi Houthis of north Yemen were being recognized.

After Hillary: Clinton’s “Arab Spring” of 2011 and the fall of Abdullah Saleh from power saw Yemen become a failed state. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and the Islamic State gained control over several areas of North and South Yemen. The fall of Saleh permitted Saudi Arabia to conduct a genocidal war in the country with Mrs. Clinton’s full support.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Some of SIG'S sources for the above post.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Some of SIG'S sources for the above post.

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• http://finance.yahoo.com/m/e4bffa30-9506-38cd-9934-cc3b0df6dea6/undefi
ned
• http://www.kosovo-metochia.org/2016/09/29/kosovo-countries-destroyed-h
illary-clinton/
• http://www.bullfax.com/?q=node-complete-z-nations-destroyed-hillary-cl
intons-hubris
• https://www.yahoo.com/news/novartis-psoriasis-drug-maintains-efficacy-
four-years-study-051637981--finance.html
• https://sports.yahoo.com/m/365f8b37-73d8-36d8-97ce-96ca4759d301/ss_kov
alev%3A-russian-boxing-is.html
• http://beforeitsnews.com/gold-and-precious-metals/2016/09/the-complete
-a-to-z-of-nations-destroyed-by-hillary-clintons-hubris-2969109.html


Quote SIG

How would you know what my sources are?

Oh, that's right: you don't. You're a liar. And, of course, too dishonest to address the actual content of the post.

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Actually I do know who your sources were and that makes you, once again the liar. Since all you do is cut and paste a bunch of bullshit lies, all I have to do is run it through a plagiarism checker and IT GIVES ME THE SOURCES.

So you cut and pasted a books worth of bullshit ( like always ). You do not post your sources and in response to me you deny them. Why, because you know they are propaganda sites and not reputable.

And I am addressing your post. By pointing out you always misrepresent the truth so your posts are not to be believed. further, by pointing out that if you are deceitful here, ( which you constantly are ), than you fit the description of an internet troll.

Isn't that right comrade?



____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Originally posted by SECOND:
Where is economic growth going to come from?
In the debate, Trump thinks it only comes from one place. Clinton sees many.

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Trump answered in exactly one dimension: Manufacturing jobs that in recent decades have migrated to Mexico and China. He’d bring them back, he and his advisers say, by charging steep tariffs on imports and slashing corporate tax rates so that companies bring cash back from overseas. “That’s going to be a job creator like we haven’t seen since Ronald Reagan,” Trump said. “It’s going to be a beautiful thing to watch.”


But while Trump stops there, Clinton goes further. She's spent the last several years stuffing an economic toolbox with plans for investing in clean energy,

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Originally posted by whozit:

As the polls come in it looks like Drumpf is the winner.

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Hillary, aside form being an alcoholic, got over 30,000 people uselessly killed in Libya and is partly responsible for another 1000,000 more if Syria and elsewhere. Her personal business dealing involve her drug-traficking husband.

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In the pursuit of the American dream, minority business owners often face an uphill battle. Often facing social and economic discrimination, the climb is tough. Despite the inevitable hurdles, minority entrepreneurs seem to be confident in what the future holds.

According to the Minority Business Development Agency, the rate at which minority-owned businesses are being formed continues to rise. The number of minority business enterprises increased 39 percent between 2007 and 2012 (from 5.8 million to 8.0 million), or more than three times faster than population growth among minorities, according to the Census Bureau's 2012 Survey of Business Owners. But they fall short in comparison to other businesses' overall success in terms of revenue and profit growth.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Hillary Clinton: Trickle-down did not work. It got us into the mess we were in, in 2008 and 2009. Slashing taxes on the wealthy hasn't worked.

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I agree. And I'm sure there are a lot of people just gobbling up your tasty junk-food sound-bites, Hillary.

But honey, there was a LOT more than trickle-down that caused the crash. And if you don't understand that, you'll never solve the problem - or avoid the next one.



America has ceased to be a nation that produces value. And so, people no longer invest in America because we produce things that others need and want to buy. (This is one point for Donald, btw. A country without robust manufacturing is economically crippled.)
Instead, people speculate. And drive bubbles. This has been commented on for over 15 years.
https://mises.org/library/americas-bubble-economy
http://www.economist.com/node/160056

As their name implies bubbles are valueless froth that pop and leave little behind but a disgusting mess.

And bubbles didn't start with dumbya. No, they can be traced back to the dot.com bubble 1995–2001. HIYA, BILL! Nor did Bill fix the problem. If anything the so-called 'free' trade agreements from his administration crippled US manufacturing even more. So not only did the US lose iron and then steel earlier, but THEN it ALSO lost auto, textile, chemicals, chips and memory and computers ... and made them, like, even worser. So, by the time dumbya took office, US manufacturing had already been thoroughly hollowed out.

Another factor that lead to the meltdown was the bank deregulation that took place - ALSO during Bill's term of office. HEY THERE - again - BILL! http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351
_1877350_1877322,00.html

AND finally there was the ruinous expense of the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq - financed off the federal budget books by floating bonds and selling them to the Chinese. Very clever! (not) Unfortunately, Hillary didn't seem to learn that expensive foreign conflicts, that drive the US government into competing for global lenders, can ruin your economy.

Trickle down was only one player among many large ones on our road to economic ruin. So called 'free' trade agreements that greased manufacturing flight from the US, bank deregulation, and ruinously expensive foreign conflicts also contributed their share.

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Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

Perhaps you can explain what Hillary's trade policies are, how they've been evaluated, and what was concluded.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

Perhaps you can explain what Hillary's trade policies are, how they've been evaluated, and what was concluded.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I contend that it would behoove Mr. Moneybags to allow for companies to expand their growth and influence abroad. Why? Good question.

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Let's take Mexico for instance. Ford recently struck a deal to manufacture small cars there, which creates job growth and keeps the general population,
well........there. It has been reported that the illegal immigration problem has slowed to a trickle in recent months, mainly because Mexico's economy has improved.

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Ford makes money, the Mexicans make money (and consequently stay home), everybody's happy.

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Now we can cross the border to look for work, turnabout is fair play. Well, Ford hasn't forgotten about us here in America; despite what the Donald says, Ford has committed to making large trucks and SUVs here in the good old USA. So nobody here is losing their jobs.

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Now if we could only find a way to make them share in their good fortune (an understatement) and raise wages. CEOs are walking away with hundred million dollar bonuses, where's ours?

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Speaking of "Crooked, Lying" Donald Frump - Newsweek will be releasing an article this morning about Trump's shady dealings with the Cubans in 1998-9.

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