Bernie Sanders Discussion Thread by reaverfan

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Clinton has been raising money for other races; Sanders hasn’t, and is still being evasive on whether he will ever do so. Not acceptable.

Clinton's getting 'big donor' money from corporate America, and has it to throw around. Sanders isn't, and doesn't.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/07/faceboo
k-posts/meme-says-hillary-clintons-top-donors-are-banks-an/

Clinton’s top 10 cumulative donors between between 1999 and 2016 were, in descending order, Citigroup ($782,327), Goldman Sachs ($711,490), DLA Piper ($628,030), JPMorgan Chase ($620,919), EMILY’s List ($605,174) Morgan Stanley ($543,065), Time Warner ($411,296), Skadden Arps ($406,640), Lehman Brothers ($362,853) and Cablevision Systems ($336,288).

The data for Sanders goes back to 1989. His top 10 are, in descending order, Machinists/Aerospace Workers union ($105,000), Teamsters union ($93,700), National Education Association ($84,350), United Auto Workers ($79,650), United Food & Commercial Workers union ($72,500), Communications Workers of America ($68,000), Laborers Union ($64,000), Carpenters & Joiners Union ($62,000), National Association of Letter Carriers ($61,000), and the American Association for Justice ($60,500).

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, April 4, 2016 3:06 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Clinton IS corrupt. ...

Clinton is a bought, sold, butchered, graded, and packaged politician. You don't need a jury trial to figure that out.

I know exactly what she'll do when she gets into office:

I have heard this variety of political reasoning in 2000 from Ralph Nader's voters, who said that Gore would be no better than Bush and that Gore as President would be as big a catastrophe as Bush. The entire future of America was suppose to depend on Ralph in the White House. Only Ralph could save the Nation. The Nader people are still telling themselves soothing lies about how terrible a person Gore is so they don't have to feel bad about what Bush did in the next 8 years.

Nader had no chance of being President, no matter what 2,882,995 Nader voters say. Bernie has no chance of being President, either. Bernie is too old, too godless, too socialist, too many things to win. Tearing down Clinton as corrupt WILL NEVER GET BERNIE INTO THE WHITE HOUSE. But it will get a Republican elected.

I checked the betting sites. Bernie will not be President is a safe bet.
www.oddsshark.com/entertainment/us-presidential-odds-2016-futures
www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_i
ds=791149

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 4, 2016 4:11 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Wow, Second. You could have not picked a more inappropriate example in Nader if you tried.

Nader wasn't in the primaries running as a democrat against another democrat. He was the Green Party candidate. Any point you might be trying to make about whether or not the Democratic voters should ELECT the Democratic candidate, or if the party gets to SELECT the candidate is pointless.

On top of that Gore didn't lose, and he didn't lose because of Nader. Bush won through fraud in multiple states. And then the Supremes stepping in to decide the winner.

And finally, what's been driving the Republican Party further and further to the extremes, if not the populist Tea Party, which had good control over the rest of the Republican factions through the power of the vote? (... and which lost its legitimacy through its failure to walk its talk.)

The extreme can swing a party through the vote. I think the democratic party is very much overdue for a reality check.

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Monday, April 4, 2016 5:35 PM

www.foxnews.com/story/2007/02/16/ralph-nader-says-might-run-in-2008-if
-hillary-clinton-wins-nomination.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Wow, Second. You could have not picked a more inappropriate example in Nader if you tried.

Nader wasn't in the primaries running as a democrat against another democrat. He was the Green Party candidate. Any point you might be trying to make about whether or not the Democratic voters should ELECT the Democratic candidate, or if the party gets to SELECT the candidate is pointless.

On top of that Gore didn't lose, and he didn't lose because of Nader. Bush won through fraud in multiple states. And then the Supremes stepping in to decide the winner.

And finally, what's been driving the Republican Party further and further to the extremes, if not the populist Tea Party, which had good control over the rest of the Republican factions through the power of the vote? (... and which lost its legitimacy through its failure to walk its talk.)

The extreme can swing a party through the vote. I think the democratic party is very much overdue for a reality check.

Wow, 1kiki, you think Bernie has a chance? I think Bernie has a chance of sabotaging Clinton, but no chance of being President.

Compare Bernie to Nader. The Nader voters in 2000 would have split 5 to 1 in favor of Democrats if Nader had not been on the ballet. Nader says that is not true; he says his voters would have stayed home if he had not run. I say Nader has a history of not knowing what he speaks of. Nader, a perfectly worthless Presidential candidate since Unsafe at Any Speed in 1965, used a lawyer's argument that it wasn't his fault (and nothing has ever been his fault) that Gore was weak. It will be on Nader's headstone: "Don't Blame Bush 43 On Me"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader#Presidential_campaigns

Following Nader's example, Bernie will say Clinton ran a weak campaign if she loses. On his headstone will be carved "Don't Blame (Cruz?) On Me". Bernie is ancient like Nader and neither of those senile doofuses ever had a chance of being President.

I ought to have checked sooner about Nader's opinion of Clinton. As I suspected, same as Bernie's, but less polite:

Quote:
Ralph Nader Says He Might Run in 2008 if Hillary Clinton Wins the Nomination
Published February 16, 2007 FoxNews.com

WASHINGTON – Former presidential hopeful Ralph Nader might consider jumping into the 2008 race if Sen. Hillary Clinton wins the Democratic Party nomination.

"She's just another bad version of (former President) Bill Clinton,'' Nader told KGO radio host Ronn Owens in San Francisco while on a book tour, as reported by the San Francisco Chronicle.

Nader has recently said he'll consider making a bid for the White House later this year.

"We're going to see what the Democrats come up with," he said.

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Monday, April 4, 2016 6:00 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I think if Bernie wins the nomination then he'll have broken the predictive power of that one odds-tracking site.

But that aside, don't you think the voters should be deciding who runs in the election, and not Debbie?

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Monday, April 4, 2016 10:34 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I think if Bernie wins the nomination then he'll have broken the predictive power of that one odds-tracking site.

But that aside, don't you think the voters should be deciding who runs in the election, and not Debbie?

To be as blunt as possible, the primary system is broken. Lincoln Chafee, Lawrence Lessig, Martin O'Malley, and Jim Webb dropped out (you don't remember them, do you?) because the system is ridiculous.

You would probably notice how stupid the Primary system is if the Presidential election was organized in the same fashion, with Iowa deciding who is on the ballot in California. But all the states are forced to have their elections in the same month, and even, dare I say it, ON THE SAME DAY!

And the Republicans have an equally idiotic system for picking their Presidential candidate.

I should google "Why are there no runoff elections in America?" But I don't care enough. Somebody do it for me and let me know the answer.

Then there are all the other parties with absolutely no chance. I wonder what they do?

1 Ballot access to 270 or more electoral votes

1.1 Green Party
1.2 Libertarian Party

2 Ballot access to fewer than 270, but more than 50 electoral votes

2.1 American Independent Party
2.2 Constitution Party
2.3 Peace and Freedom Party
2.4 Reform Party of the United States of America

3 Ballot access to fewer than 50 electoral votes

3.1 America's Party
3.2 American Freedom Party
3.3 Independent American Party
3.4 Nutrition Party
3.5 Party for Socialism and Liberation
3.6 Prohibition Party
3.7 Veterans Party of America

4 No ballot access

4.1 Humane Party
4.2 Socialist Party USA
4.3 Socialist Workers Party
4.4 Workers World Party

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 4, 2016 11:00 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

To be as blunt as possible, the primary system is broken.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

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Monday, April 4, 2016 11:56 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
To be as blunt as possible, the primary system is broken.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

I'd like to see more choices than Bernie vs Clinton. I'd like to see some acknowledgement that an elderly Jewish socialist atheist cranky old man cannot be elected President of the United States. President Bernie is not impossible in the Constitution. President Bernie violates a law of physics, so it can't happen, kind of like Star Wars Hyperdrive, another lovely fantasy that can't happen.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 3:13 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I hope Bernie sabotages Hillary because I can't think of a worse choice.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 9:02 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I hope Bernie sabotages Hillary because I can't think of a worse choice.

There is worse. It's typical for the Democratic party left wing to sabotage the rest wing of the party. That's why Nixon won a second time. That's why the majority of states, governorships and Congress are Republican. The left would rather lose than compromise with the rest of the party. Then the left, in perfect self-righteousness, can bitch about the Republicans, Obama, and Clintons ruining the country.

But that is a long-running story to be told about the witless anger of the left at the rest of the Dem party. I'm thankful the left is not angrily repeating that Obama is a Kenyan and the Clintons killed Vince Foster.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/
08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:47 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Bernie Sanders wants public colleges and universities to eliminate tuition. He's convinced me that this is a good goal, but he's also produced a plan that would NOT achieve that goal.

Hillary Clinton has taken to pointing this out.

Sanders's reply to this, when asked by CNN's Erin Burnett, was to misdescribe the essential elements of his own plan.

More about Bernie's screwed up thinking on eliminating tuition is here:
www.vox.com/2016/3/30/11332612/bernie-sanders-free-college

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 4:14 PM

Why all the predictions that Bernie would lose to the reichwingers? That's not what the polls say.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 4:50 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Why all the predictions that Bernie would lose to the reichwingers? That's not what the polls say.

The only polls that count with me are the ones that treat the Presidential race as a sporting match. Real money and bitcoins will be won or lost on these bets:
www.oddsshark.com/entertainment/us-presidential-odds-2016-futures
www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_i
ds=791149

The Democrats Are Flawlessly Executing a 10-Point Plan to Lose the 2016 Presidential Election
www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/the-democrats-10-point-plan-lose-
election_b_9605608.html

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 5:03 PM

That's a lot of words to say "nobody really knows."

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 8:00 PM

Will the general election come down to "anybody but Bernie" vs "anybody but Trump" this November?

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 8:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Maybe Bernie taking Nevada will make up a little bit for Hillary magically winning all six coin tosses in Iowa.

Paranoid much?

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 9:16 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
That's a lot of words to say "nobody really knows."

That is a truism; nobody really knows the future. But you, reaverfan, can make part of the future without the uncertainties of Democrats and Republicans deciding. One of your bullets hits Bernie's heart and everybody in the world would know the future. Or Trump's 757 crashes because reaverfan placed an exploding box of make-america-great-again caps in the cargo bay and everybody knows even more about that future. In 1968, candidate Nixon told South Vietnamese President General Theiu to NOT accept LBJ's negotiated cease-fire, which lead to Nixon winning the election. Nixon really grabbed the future by the balls, squeezed hard, and he did it all in secret. It was treason, but so what? It worked! More than a million Vietnamese were killed because of Nixon's treason, but again, so what as far as Nixon cared? He was changing his future!
www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-viet
nam-treason

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:24 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Yessiree. A suspicious person might even wonder if promoting Bernie - because he would loose to Trump and President Donald would be the worst thing for this country, especially Internationally - is partly the work of interests outside the US.

Personally, I want my president to have a bit of conniving and guile - better to recognize it in others. As much as I dislike Hillary in general and as a person from what I think I know, of all the choices left to us she's the only one I can imagine.

I have to say, your imagination is limited and your paranoia is completely mis-directed.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:35 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Bernie Sanders wants public colleges and universities to eliminate tuition. He's convinced me that this is a good goal, but he's also produced a plan that would NOT achieve that goal.

Bernie Sanders has NOT convinced me that this is a good goal, and I doubt that he ever will. I'm against a lot of things that he's for, like free tuition (which is stupid) and enhanced immigration.

I doubt that he'll get 0.01% of his domestic agenda accomplished, because it will be Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and Russ Feingold (assuming he gets elected) against everybody else - Democrat and Republican alike - who are desperately sucking on the money-teat.

The one area where Presidents have more leeway is foreign policy - they can go negotiate trade deals, or make peace with nations, or destabilize nations because the President is Commander in Chief, ultimate head of the State Department and the CIA, and represents the nation in foreign affairs.

Sanders, like Trump, is against the TPP and the TTIP. Call me a several-issue voter, but right now I'm not looking for pie in the sky, but VERY directed policies.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:58 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"The only polls that count with me are the ones that treat the Presidential race as a sporting match. Real money and bitcoins will be won or lost on these bets"

Those bets are placed because of decisions already made - for example, assigning Hillary all those superdelegates. They're not bets about whether Bernie should be president, or if he would be a good president, or if people want him to be president. They're about what his chances of completing the obstacle course are GIVEN THAT THE DECK HAS BEEN STACKED AGAINST HIM. And of course based on that Hillary hadn't been indicted - yet.

You've given your brain away and replaced it with the thoughtless reaction of the mob to things as they are RIGHT NOW. But the way things are right now can change.

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Wednesday, April 6, 2016 6:32 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Those bets are placed because of decisions already made - for example, assigning Hillary all those superdelegates. They're not bets about whether Bernie should be president, or if he would be a good president, or if people want him to be president. They're about what his chances of completing the obstacle course are GIVEN THAT THE DECK HAS BEEN STACKED AGAINST HIM. And of course based on that Hillary hadn't been indicted - yet.

You've given your brain away and replaced it with the thoughtless reaction of the mob to things as they are RIGHT NOW. But the way things are right now can change.

I'll give you my opinion of Bernie. He'd be the most worthless President since Franklin Pierce. Bernie is not the leader who will change America. He is a grumpy old man, more articulate than average, and nothing more than that. Any other candidate would make a bigger splash than Bernie as President. I predict he will be taking long naps in the White House and be dead before his first term is over.

From an Interview with Bernie. Some would read it and be impressed. I read it and I see his future as a failure in the White House, vilified by Congressional Republicans and ignored by Congressional Democrats who will be wishing Bernie had more energy. http://m.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-
editorial-board-article-1.2588306

1. Whether Wall Street executives could be prosecuted over their actions during the financial crisis.
Bernie: “Do I have them in front of me, now, legal statutes? No, I don’t.”

2. How far he wants Israel to pull back its illegal settlements.
Bernie: “You’re asking me a very fair question, and if I had some paper in front of me, I would give you a better answer.”

3. What the Supreme Court's recent decision on Metropolitan Life means.
Bernie: “It’s something I have not studied, honestly.”

4. How Israel should have handled its 2014 conflict in Gaza.
Bernie: “I don’t quite think I’m qualified to make decisions.”

5. President Obama's policy of giving the military authority over drone attacks.
Bernie: “I don’t know the answer to that.”

6. How he would handle the detention and interrogation of an ISIS commander.
Bernie: “Actually I haven’t thought about it a whole lot.”

7. The Palestinian leadership's decision to litigate Israeli war crimes in the International Criminal Court.
Bernie: “Look, why don’t I support a million things in the world?”

8. What big banks would look like after he's broken them up.
Bernie: “I'm not running JP Morgan Chase or Citibank.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 6, 2016 8:33 AM

Second, your reply is hilarious. You sound exactly like the paid shills on Facebook! LOL!

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Wednesday, April 6, 2016 8:52 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Second, your reply is hilarious. You sound exactly like the paid shills on Facebook! LOL!

Don't laugh. I sound to myself like I think Bernie can't handle the hostility he will face from the Republican party once he is President. He will collapse under real pressure. But some people think he has hidden reservoirs of calm decisiveness and perseverance against implacable foes. If he does, he is keeping those qualities well hidden.

Oh, and you should comment on that story about Nixon's treason. It shows what terrible things Republicans are capable of doing to a Democratic President. As Nixon did to LBJ, someday a Republican candidate could do to President Bernie. I hope Bernie handles it better than LBJ did, but I doubt Bernie.
www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-viet
nam-treason

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 6, 2016 11:38 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

How Bernie Can Win!
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-really-hard-to-get-bernie-sand
ers-988-more-delegates/

Who’s On Track For The Nomination?
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/dem
ocrats/

The media has a systematic self-interested bias toward exaggerating how close the race is. Sanders supporters avidly read and share content about Sanders' big fundraising hauls and his wins in low-population states. Television networks want people to tune in to their debates and townhalls, which they are much more likely to do if they think something is at stake. And Sanders' big fundraising has been transformed into big advertising dollars, which is literally money into the pockets of media companies.

The media loves Bernie Sanders!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 6, 2016 3:45 PM

THGRRI

Gotta love the guy but it's over after NY.

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Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I'll give you my opinion of Bernie. He'd be the most worthless President since Franklin Pierce. Bernie is not the leader who will change America. He is a grumpy old man, more articulate than average, and nothing more than that. Any other candidate would make a bigger splash than Bernie as President. I predict he will be taking long naps in the White House and be dead before his first term is over.

From an Interview with Bernie. Some would read it and be impressed. I read it and I see his future as a failure in the White House, vilified by Congressional Republicans and ignored by Congressional Democrats who will be wishing Bernie had more energy. http://m.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-
editorial-board-article-1.2588306

1. Whether Wall Street executives could be prosecuted over their actions during the financial crisis.
Bernie: “Do I have them in front of me, now, legal statutes? No, I don’t.”

2. How far he wants Israel to pull back its illegal settlements.
Bernie: “You’re asking me a very fair question, and if I had some paper in front of me, I would give you a better answer.”

3. What the Supreme Court's recent decision on Metropolitan Life means.
Bernie: “It’s something I have not studied, honestly.”

4. How Israel should have handled its 2014 conflict in Gaza.
Bernie: “I don’t quite think I’m qualified to make decisions.”

5. President Obama's policy of giving the military authority over drone attacks.
Bernie: “I don’t know the answer to that.”

6. How he would handle the detention and interrogation of an ISIS commander.
Bernie: “Actually I haven’t thought about it a whole lot.”

7. The Palestinian leadership's decision to litigate Israeli war crimes in the International Criminal Court.
Bernie: “Look, why don’t I support a million things in the world?”

8. What big banks would look like after he's broken them up.
Bernie: “I'm not running JP Morgan Chase or Citibank.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

What are Hillary's or Trump's answers to those same questions, in the same interview environment? Or do they avoid those subjects?

Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:52 AM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

"When you improvise a plan, sometimes you hit a speed bump, and sometimes you hit it so hard, that you soar through the air, far beyond your initial expectations." - Pierce Hawthorne

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Thursday, April 7, 2016 8:30 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:

What are Hillary's or Trump's answers to those same questions, in the same interview environment? Or do they avoid those subjects?

Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

The New York Daily News, which questioned Bernie, has an entire section devoted to Hillary.
http://m.nydailynews.com/tags/hillary-clinton

There are stories like: Pros say Sanders doesn't know enough about foreign policy-- "Bernie Sanders needs to seriously brush up his foreign policy chops, according to a statement from former security and diplomatic officials."

Bernie Sanders faces recoil on gun comments made to The News-- "Sanders' positions on guns and gun violence have been widely criticized in Democratic circles."

Maybe you can find there (at the Daily News) the Serenity you seek here.

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Thursday, April 7, 2016 11:32 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Gotta love the guy but it's over after NY.

Bernie said Hillary Not Qualified to Be President. I don't think he is lovable when he uses Republican talking points to attack a Democrat. But Bernie doesn't truthfully care in his heart how much he hurts the Democrats.

Today Hillary Clinton criticized Bernie Sanders: "I am concerned that some of his ideas just won't work, because the numbers don’t add up." I’ve added up Bernie’s numbers and Bernie’s answers are mathematically incorrect.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/06/clinton-says-s
anderss-plans-unrealistic-or-nonexistent-as-tame-democratic-primary-gets-testy/?tid=a_inl

And Hillary said about Bernie, "I think he himself doesn't consider himself to be a Democrat." Bernie can’t truthfully deny it.

And Hillary said, in response to Bernie’s widely-panned Daily News interview: "I think he hadn’t done his homework, and he’d been talking for more than a year about doing things that he obviously hadn’t really studied or understood."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/clinton-says-sanders-hadn-t-145832404.ht
ml

Since Bernie can’t truthfully deny what Hillary said, he attacked Hillary with the Republican Party’s talking points. That is not how Bernie can prove he is superior to the Republican candidates, even though the crowd cheered for Bernie:

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, April 8, 2016 8:28 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Paul Krugman: "Sanders Over the Edge" - http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/opinion/sanders-over-the-edge.html?s
mid=tw-share&_r=0

Quote:
From the beginning, many and probably most liberal policy wonks were skeptical about Bernie Sanders. On many major issues — including the signature issues of his campaign, especially financial reform — he seemed to go for easy slogans over hard thinking. And his political theory of change, his waving away of limits, seemed utterly unrealistic.

Some Sanders supporters responded angrily when these concerns were raised, immediately accusing anyone expressing doubts about their hero of being corrupt if not actually criminal. But intolerance and cultishness from some of a candidate’s supporters are one thing; what about the candidate himself?

Unfortunately, in the past few days the answer has become all too clear: Mr. Sanders is starting to sound like his worst followers. Bernie is becoming a Bernie Bro.

Let me illustrate the point about issues by talking about bank reform.

The easy slogan here is “Break up the big banks.” It’s obvious why this slogan is appealing from a political point of view: Wall Street supplies an excellent cast of villains. But were big banks really at the heart of the financial crisis, and would breaking them up protect us from future crises?

Many analysts concluded years ago that the answers to both questions were no. Predatory lending was largely carried out by smaller, non-Wall Street institutions like Countrywide Financial; the crisis itself was centered not on big banks but on “shadow banks” like Lehman Brothers that weren’t necessarily that big. And the financial reform that President Obama signed in 2010 made a real effort to address these problems. It could and should be made stronger, but pounding the table about big banks misses the point.

Yet going on about big banks is pretty much all Mr. Sanders has done. On the rare occasions on which he was asked for more detail, he didn’t seem to have anything more to offer. And this absence of substance beyond the slogans seems to be true of his positions across the board.

You could argue that policy details are unimportant as long as a politician has the right values and character. As it happens, I don’t agree. For one thing, a politician’s policy specifics are often a very important clue to his or her true character — I warned about George W. Bush’s mendacity back when most journalists were still portraying him as a bluff, honest fellow, because I actually looked at his tax proposals. For another, I consider a commitment to facing hard choices as opposed to taking the easy way out an important value in itself.

But in any case, the way Mr. Sanders is now campaigning raises serious character and values issues.

...

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 2:32 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

For another, I consider a commitment to facing hard choices as opposed to taking the easy way out an important value in itself.

But in any case, the way Mr. Sanders is now campaigning raises serious character and values issues.

Somebody clued Bernie to the fact that his mouth was running faster than his brain, so he took back his Hillary is NOT qualified to be President. Everybody breathed a sigh of relief.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 8:49 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

You guys still don't "get it", do you?

IF you're a modern politician, and you whittle your course of action to "the possible", using all the "realistic" models, what you wind up with is exactly what we have today: politicians who are afraid to offend their sources of money, and a series of "I can't do this because of..." statements, until you wind up with the same-old.

So, speaking of "hard choices". Our choices are only HARD because we're constrained by those with money to "choose" courses of action which don't seriously discomfit them. Those who speak of "hard choices" in the USA are those who think ...

"Do we address global climate change, or pander to TPTB in fossil fuels, or try to find a course that's 'tolerable' to them?"

"Do we address our crumbling infrastructure, or do we pander to the banksters who're always seeking the highest ROI, or do we try to find a course that doesn't offend the financialists and still manage to get at least a little something necessary done?"

Do we cost-effectively cover everyone with health insurance, or do we allow SOME of the health care industry [pharma] to rake in unconscionable profits?

Do we decline to destroy yet another nation - leaving a failed state in its wake, or do we go along with State Department/ CIA plans to use drug money and weapons smuggling to destabilize one more time?"

Both Bernie and Trump are protest votes. And if you don't think the system as it currently stands demands a protest vote, then by all means stick with TPTB.

Are we heading in the right direction? If not, then isn't choosing a different direction to right thing to do?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 10:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Those same things were said about Slick Willy, the First Black President - and also Obama, the Second Black President.
Yes, but

libtards
Quote:

are all saying Trump is.

And the real world seems to put him in 3rd place.

But isn't this the Bernie thread?

I see. You're demonstrating the cognitive thing that was mentioned on that other thread about people being gullible.

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 5:55 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Jeeze Second - could your post have been any more dishonest?

Daily News: We are very well aware of the broad themes of your campaign by now. So we'd like to hone in on some of the more particular issues to get a sense of how your presidency might evolve.

You’ve said that the greed of Wall Street and corporate America is destroying the fabric of our nation. So if we can get particular: For example, in corporate America, Apple happens to be celebrating, today, its 40th birthday. It's a company that grew from nothing to 115,000 permanent employees. And I'm wondering, is Apple destroying the fabric of America?

Bernie Sanders: No, Apple is not destroying the fabric of America. But I do wish they'd be manufacturing some of their devices, here, in the United States rather than in China. And I do wish that they would not be trying to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.

Daily News: Okay. Well, would you name, say, three American corporate giants that are destroying the national fabric?

Sanders: JPMorgan Chase, and virtually every other major bank in this country. Let me be very clear, all right? I believe that we can and should move to what Pope Francis calls a moral economy.

Right now, there are still millions of people in this country who are suffering the results of the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior on Wall Street. And when you have companies like Goldman Sachs and many other major banks reaching settlements with the United States government, as you're aware, for many billions of dollars, this is an implicit admission that they have engaged in illegal activity.

Daily News: I understand that. I wanted to draw a distinction, though. Because in your speech you mention the financial industry and you focused on corporate America, the greed of Wall Street and corporate America. So I wanted to get a sense of corporate America, as the agent of American destruction.

Sanders: General Electric, good example. General Electric was created in this country by American workers and American consumers. What we have seen over the many years is shutting down of many major plants in this country. Sending jobs to low-wage countries. And General Electric, doing a very good job avoiding the taxes. In fact, in a given year, they pay nothing in taxes. That's greed.

That is greed and that’s selfishness. That is lack of respect for the people of this country.

Daily News: And so how does that destroy the fabric of America?

Sanders: I'll tell you how it does. If you are a corporation and the only damn thing you are concerned about is your profits. Let's just give an example of a corporation that's making money in America, today, but desiring to move to China or to Mexico to make even more money. That is destroying the moral fabric of this country. That is saying that I don't care that the workers, here have worked for decades. It doesn't matter to me. The only thing that matters is that I can make a little bit more money. That the dollar is all that is almighty. And I think that is the moral fabric.

To me, what moral is, I've got to be concerned about you. You've got to be concerned about my wife. That's moral to me. That's what I believe in. And if the only thing that matters to you is making an extra buck, you don't care about my family, I think that's immoral. And I think what corporate America has shown us in the last number of years, what Wall Street has shown us, the only thing that matters is their profits and their money. And the hell with the rest of the people of this country.

Daily News: Okay. Do you weigh in the balance at all, the fact that a company that's moving jobs overseas, that the competitive climate may be such that they feel that they must, to compete in the United States?

Sanders: No. I think, firstly, we have to appreciate these guys wrote the rules in the first place. So they wrote the trade agreements. And then, yes, I do understand you can make more profits by paying people in Mexico, or China, or Vietnam pennies an hour, I do understand that. But I believe that people have...and, by the way, I'm not anti-trade. We live in a global economy, we need trade. But the trade policies that we have allowed to occur, that were written by corporate America have been disastrous for American workers.

So I think we need trade. But I think it should be based on fair trade policies. No, I don't think it is appropriate for trade policies to say that you can move to a country where wages are abysmal, where there are no environmental regulations, where workers can't form unions. That's not the kind of trade agreement that I will support.

Daily News: So how would you stop that?

Sanders: I will stop it by renegotiating all of the trade agreements that we have. And by establishing principles that says that what fair trade is about is you are going to take into consideration the wages being paid to workers in other countries. And the environmental standards that exist.

Daily News: So you're talking NAFTA. You're talking the Pacific. You're talking all of it.

Sanders: Yeah. Look, these trade agreements, let's be frank. Now, people may disagree with me, all right. My understanding, talking to many economists is, NAFTA, PNTR with China, other trade agreements have cost this country millions of jobs.

You go to Flint, Michigan, today. And everyone looks at Flint, Michigan today because they're seeing children being poisoned by the water systems. What people forget is that in the 1960s, Flint, Michigan was one of the wealthiest cities in America. Very prosperous city, because you had GM manufacturing plants there. That city is a disaster right now. And that is not just Flint, Michigan. It is cities all over this country have lost their tax base. They've lost their decent-paying jobs because of disastrous trade policies.

Daily News: Another one of your potential opponents has a very similar sounding answer to, or solution to, the trade situation — and that's Donald Trump. He also says that, although he speaks with much more blunt language and says, and with few specifics, "Bad deals. Terrible deals. I'll make them good deals."

So in that sense I hear whispers of that same sentiment. How is your take on that issue different than his?

Sanders: Well, if he thinks they're bad trade deals, I agree with him. They are bad trade deals. But we have some specificity and it isn’t just us going around denouncing bad trade. In other words, I do believe in trade. But it has to be based on principles that are fair. So if you are in Vietnam, where the minimum wage is 65¢ an hour, or you're in Malaysia, where many of the workers are indentured servants because their passports are taken away when they come into this country and are working in slave-like conditions, no, I'm not going to have American workers "competing" against you under those conditions. So you have to have standards. And what fair trade means to say that it is fair. It is roughly equivalent to the wages and environmental standards in the United States.

Daily News: At what point in history, in the recent history of the United States, do you think the balance began to tip against the American worker?

Sanders: In the early '70s. I think it was in the late '60s/early '70s. I think Lyndon Johnson's, maybe even earlier than that, the victory over Goldwater, in '64 got the ruling class in this country very nervous.

And I think there became a very organized effort, on the part of corporate America, and very powerful forces, to say, "Look, we are in trouble. And we're going to have to fight back." And I think what you have seen in a number of ways, trade being one way, attacks on trade unions being another way, to really reestablish and strengthen the power of the few against the many.

Daily News: And do you trace all of that, do you ascribe, are those the forces in your mind that have led to wage stagnation since then?

Sanders: I think there's been a very concerted effort to take on trade unions. No question about that. You're seeing that every day, or in the last few years, in Wisconsin, what the governor there, Scott Walker, is about. That is a perfect metaphor for what I think corporate America...much, I'm not going to say all of, but much of corporate America has wanted to privatize everything that can be privatized. To destroy trade unions. To make it harder for people to get health care. To give tax breaks to the very wealthiest people in this country. Yeah, I think that has been a very concerted effort.

Daily News: Now, switching to the financial sector, to Wall Street. Speaking broadly, you said that within the first 100 days of your administration you'd be drawing up...your Treasury Department would be drawing up a too-big-to-fail list. Would you expect that that's essentially the list that already exists under Dodd-Frank? Under the Financial Stability Oversight Council?

Sanders: Yeah. I mean these are the largest financial institutions in the world….

Daily News: And then, you further said that you expect to break them up within the first year of your administration. What authority do you have to do that? And how would that work? How would you break up JPMorgan Chase?

Sanders: Well, by the way, the idea of breaking up these banks is not an original idea. It's an idea that some conservatives have also agreed to.

You've got head of, I think it's, the Kansas City Fed, some pretty conservative guys, who understands. Let's talk about the merit of the issue, and then talk about how we get there.

Right now, what you have are two factors. We bailed out Wall Street because the banks are too big to fail, correct? It turns out, that three out of the four largest banks are bigger today than they were when we bailed them out, when they were too-big-to-fail. That's number one.

Number two, if you look at the six largest financial institutions of this country, their assets somewhere around $10 trillion. That is equivalent to 58% of the GDP of America. They issue two-thirds of the credit cards in this country, and about one-third of the mortgages. That is a lot of power.

And I think that if somebody, like if Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, he would look at that. Forgetting even the risk element, the bailout element, and just look at the kind of financial power that these guys have, would say that is too much power.
A holy mixup has people questioning whether or not Bernie Sanders angled an invite with the Pope, with Vatican officials denying the claims.
New York Daily News front pages on the presidential election

Daily News: Okay. Well, let's assume that you're correct on that point. How do you go about doing it?

Sanders: How you go about doing it is having legislation passed, or giving the authority to the secretary of treasury to determine, under Dodd-Frank, that these banks are a danger to the economy over the problem of too-big-to-fail.

Daily News: But do you think that the Fed, now, has that authority?

Sanders: Well, I don't know if the Fed has it. But I think the administration can have it.

Daily News: How? How does a President turn to JPMorgan Chase, or have the Treasury turn to any of those banks and say, "Now you must do X, Y and Z?"

Sanders: Well, you do have authority under the Dodd-Frank legislation to do that, make that determination.

Daily News: You do, just by Federal Reserve fiat, you do?

Sanders: Yeah. Well, I believe you do.

Daily News: So if you look forward, a year, maybe two years, right now you have...JPMorgan has 241,000 employees. About 20,000 of them in New York. $192 billion in net assets. What happens? What do you foresee? What is JPMorgan in year two of...

Sanders: What I foresee is a stronger national economy. And, in fact, a stronger economy in New York State, as well. What I foresee is a financial system which actually makes affordable loans to small and medium-size businesses. Does not live as an island onto themselves concerned about their own profits. And, in fact, creating incredibly complicated financial tools, which have led us into the worst economic recession in the modern history of the United States.

Daily News: I get that point. I'm just looking at the method because, actions have reactions, right? There are pluses and minuses. So, if you push here, you may get an unintended consequence that you don't understand. So, what I'm asking is, how can we understand? If you look at JPMorgan just as an example, or you can do Citibank, or Bank of America. What would it be? What would that institution be? Would there be a consumer bank? Where would the investing go?

Sanders: I'm not running JPMorgan Chase or Citibank.

Daily News: No. But you'd be breaking it up.

Sanders: That's right. And that is their decision as to what they want to do and how they want to reconfigure themselves. That's not my decision. All I am saying is that I do not want to see this country be in a position where it was in 2008, where we have to bail them out. And, in addition, I oppose that kind of concentration of ownership entirely.

You're asking a question, which is a fair question. But let me just take your question and take it to another issue. Alright? It would be fair for you to say, "Well, Bernie, you got on there that you are strongly concerned about climate change and that we have to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel. What happens to the people in the fossil fuel industry?"

That's a fair question. But the other part of that is if we do not address that issue the planet we’re gonna leave your kids and your grandchildren may not be a particularly healthy or habitable one. So I can't say, if you're saying that we’re going to break up the banks, will it have a negative consequence on some people? I suspect that it will. Will it have a positive impact on the economy in general? Yes, I think it will.

Daily News: Well, it does depend on how you do it, I believe. And, I'm a little bit confused because just a few minutes ago you said the U.S. President would have authority to order...

Sanders: No, I did not say we would order. I did not say that we would order. The President is not a dictator.

Daily News: Okay. You would then leave it to JPMorgan Chase or the others to figure out how to break it, themselves up. I'm not quite...

Sanders: You would determine is that, if a bank is too big to fail, it is too big to exist. And then you have the secretary of treasury and some people who know a lot about this, making that determination. If the determination is that Goldman Sachs or JPMorgan Chase is too big to fail, yes, they will be broken up.

Daily News: Okay. You saw, I guess, what happened with Metropolitan Life. There was an attempt to bring them under the financial regulatory scheme, and the court said no. And what does that presage for your program?

Sanders: It's something I have not studied, honestly, (the quote provided left off the end of the sentence)the legal implications of that.

Daily News: Okay. Staying with Wall Street, you've pointed out, that "not one major Wall Street executive has been prosecuted for causing the near collapse of our entire economy." Why was that? Why did that happen? Why was there no prosecution?

Sanders: I would suspect that the answer that some would give you is that while what they did was horrific, and greedy and had a huge impact on our economy, that some suggest that...that those activities were not illegal. I disagree. And I think an aggressive attorney general would have found illegal activity.

Daily News: So do you think that President Obama's Justice Department essentially was either in the tank or not as...

Sanders: No, I wouldn’t say they were in the tank. I'm saying, a Sanders administration would have a much more aggressive attorney general looking at all of the legal implications. All I can tell you is that if you have Goldman Sachs paying a settlement fee of $5 billion, other banks paying a larger fee, I think most Americans think, "Well, why do they pay $5 billion?" Not because they're heck of a nice guys who want to pay $5 billion. Something was wrong there. And if something was wrong, I think they were illegal activities.

Daily News: Okay. But do you have a sense that there is a particular statute or statutes that a prosecutor could have or should have invoked to bring indictments?

Sanders: I suspect that there are. Yes.

Daily News: You believe that? But do you know?

Sanders: I believe that that is the case. Do I have them in front of me, now, legal statutes? No, I don't. But if I would...yeah, that's what I believe, yes. When a company pays a $5 billion fine for doing something that's illegal, yeah, I think we can bring charges against the executives.

Daily News: I'm only pressing because you've made it such a central part of your campaign. And I wanted to know what the mechanism would be to accomplish it.

Sanders: Let me be very clear about this. Alright? Let me repeat what I have said. Maybe you've got a quote there. I do believe that, to a significant degree, the business model of Wall Street is fraud.

And you asked me, you started this discussion off appropriately enough about when I talk about morality. When I talk about it, that's what I think. I think when you have the most powerful financial institutions in this country, whose assets are equivalent to 58% of the GDP of this country, who day after day engage in fraudulent activity, that sets a tone.

That sets a tone for some 10-year-old kid in this country who says, "Look, these people are getting away from it. They're lying. They're cheating. Why can't I do that?"

Daily News: What kind of fraudulent activity are you referring to when you say that?

Sanders: What kind of fraudulent activity? Fraudulent activity that brought this country into the worst economic decline in its history by selling packages of fraudulent, fraudulent, worthless subprime mortgages. How's that for a start?

Selling products to people who you knew could not repay them. Lying to people without allowing them to know that in a year, their interest rates would be off the charts. They would not repay that. Bundling these things. Putting them into packages with good mortgages. That's fraudulent activity.

Daily News: All right. You say also that the big financial institutions and the wealthy have rigged the game against regular Americans. And you've also criticized Hillary Clinton for saying, "We just need to impose a few more fees and regulations on the finance industry."

Sanders: Yep.

Daily News: You've also pointed out her financial ties, if you will, to Wall Street. So given all of that, is Secretary Clinton trustworthy on this issue?

Sanders: Let me get back to your first point, about a rigged economy, which is absolutely what I have said. Thank you. You got my quotes right.

A rigged economy is about an economy, for example, where the wealthiest family in this country, the Walton family of Walmart, pays its workers wages that are so low that the middle class has to pay more in taxes to provide food stamps and Medicaid for Walmart employees.

A rigged economy is when you have corporations making billions of dollars a year in taxes, billions of dollars a year in profit, and not paying a nickel in taxes. A rigged economy is where you have companies able to shut down as a result of trade agreements that they have written, and move abroad and pay people pennies an hour. That is a rigged economy. A rigged economy is when, in the wealthiest country in the history of the world, the top one-tenth of 1% now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%. If that's not a rigged economy, I don't know what a rigged economy is.

Now, Hillary Clinton, I’ll let the American…I’ve tried to run a campaign, which is an issue oriented campaign. Where I have expressed my strong disagreement with Secretary Clinton on trade issues. She has supported virtually all of these trade agreements. On how we raise money. I don't have a super PAC. She has several super PACs, which have raised a lot of money. She has given speeches to Wall Street.

I have not attacked her personally. I will let the American people make a determination about her trustworthiness. That is not an area that I'm comfortable…

Daily News: Okay. Let's take it out of the character question then. If you look at the facts, a rigged economy, Hillary Clinton saying that she would impose some fees and extra costs, and you finding that insufficient. And you’re also saying that she has been taking money, including personal funds, from financial industry interests. Were she to be elected, do you think that the American people could have the expectation or the trust that she would be aggressive enough against the banks and financial institutions?

Sanders: That's a very fair question and I think the answer is they will probably have the expectation she would not be aggressive enough. Look, I will not shock anybody in this room in suggesting what everybody in America knows, that Hillary Clinton is the candidate of the Democratic establishment. Alright, you don't get $15 million from Wall Street by accident. She is an establishment candidate. To my point of view, the terms of her issues and views are far, far preferable to any of the Republican candidates. But I think what she has basically said is, not to expect bold change from her. She talks about incremental change. I think that's a fair statement, is it not?

Alright, I believe that in the midst of the kinds of crises that we face with a disappearing middle class and massive levels of income and wealth inequality, the only major country on earth not guarantee to healthcare to all people, only major country not to provide paid family and medical leave, it is time to get beyond establishment politics. So to put your question in maybe a simpler way, is she a candidate of the establishment? The answer is, of course she is. That does not make her an evil person. I’m not judging her character…

Daily News: I wasn't suggesting that.

Sanders: I know that. But that's all.

Daily News: With a couple of those points in mind, there's a lot of speculation that if she were to win the nomination, would your followers and your supporters vote for her? Or would their absence in the voting in November help whomever the Republican nominee is? Whether it's Trump or Cruz.

With that in mind, and this might be putting the cart ahead of the horse a little bit, would you ever consider running as her vice-president?

Sanders: Well, I think you have put the cart ahead of the horse on that one. We're in this race to win. We think we’ve got a shot to win. And that's what we're focusing on right now.

There are millions of people. I am very grateful millions of people are supporting me. How they will vote, I don't know.

Daily News: But are you concerned? Not to interrupt you, about the specter of there not being enough support rallying around her from your camp?

Sanders: What I am concerned about, what I think would be a disaster for the United States of America, is to see a Donald Trump or some right wing Republican become President of the United States. I will do everything I can to prevent that from happening.

Daily News: Senator, I wanted to ask you. Because you've got this enormous support from young people, as President Obama did in 2008 and 2012. And you're promising a political revolution. But, if nothing changes in the Senate and in the House of Representatives, how are you going to be able to get anything done? I mean the real issue to me seems to be, what happens in the Senate? And what happens in the House of Representatives?

Sanders: Two things. We are talking about a political revolution and we are already delivering on a political revolution well before Election Day. What do I mean by that? What I mean is this country, and what I say in every speech that I give, no President, not me or anybody else, can do it alone. We need to revitalize American democracy, get people engaged in the political process, in a way that we have not seen for a very, very, very long time.

And the reason I say that, getting back to the questions right here, is, in my view, the powers that be in this country — Wall Street, large campaign contributors, corporate America — are so powerful, no President alone could do it.

So what we are seeing already, in this campaign, is, we have received over six million individual campaign contributions. That's a political revolution, you know that? That's unprecedented, I believe, at this point in the campaign, in history. We are seeing...and when you talk about young people, please do not think that these are 23-year-olds or younger. In virtually every primary and caucus process, we have won the votes of people 45 years of age or younger. They're not just kids. And we're seeing, I think, a revitalization of American democracy.

I never believed that we could have voter turnouts higher than Obama did in 2008. Because I thought his 2008 campaign was one of the great campaigns in American history. And, yet, in at least five states, the voter turnout in this campaign so far has been higher. So we are striking a nerve. People want to get involved in the political process and I’m very proud of that.

Now, to answer your question. You can't look at politics as a zero-sum game, and say, "Okay..." First of all, if I win, it will almost by definition mean that there will be a very large voter turnout. That's what I believe. If there is a very large voter turnout, I think the odds are pretty strong Democrats will regain control of the Senate, do better in the House. Can they win the House? I don't know. But they will do better.

But more importantly, if I win, it will mean that millions of people now want to be involved in the political process in a way that has not previously existed. Every item that I am talking about on my agenda is, I believe, supported by the majority of the people in this country. My major job is to mobilize the American people to demand that Congress listen to them and their needs rather than just the big money interests. That's how you make change take place. For example, as you know, I've talked about the need to make public colleges and universities tuition-free. Do I believe we can deliver on that? Absolutely, because I believe that millions of young people and their parents understand that that's what we should be doing right now. And I think if Republicans or some Democrats want to vote against it, they will pay a very heavy political price.

Daily News: I want to follow up on something you've just said. I have heard very, very little in this campaign, about education. What do you think about that, considering what's going on in this country? But also very specifically there is a trend in this country of wealthy suburbs being better funded in education than urban districts. In this state, there's even a lawsuit where the plaintiffs prevailed but nothing changed. What would a Sanders administration...

Sanders: That was the same thing with South Carolina, by the way.

Daily News: Yeah, I know. There's a few of them, but what would or could a Sanders administration do about this?

Sanders: We could do a lot. Number one, your point is absolutely right and I think there has not been enough discussion. I've kind of focused on, at the university level, public colleges, universities being tuition-free only, student debt. But your point is a very important point. There is a major effort for a start to privatize public education in America, which I think is a disastrous idea. I think we have got to adequately fund education. I think in the broader sense what we have got to do is make the American people understand how important education is to our quality of life and to our economy.

So what does that mean? It means that we have to start off with the lowest link. Right now, every psychologist in the world will tell you that zero through four are the most important years of a human being's life, alright? No debate, really. Our childcare pre-K system is dysfunctional. You've got teachers out there or instructors or somebody, I don't know what their title is, who make less than McDonald's workers. They have no benefits, they’re making $10 an hour. These are the people we are trusting with the youngest kids in America. That's insane.

Daily News: Okay, I'd like to switch topics here to...

Sanders: No, let me just say that I think education is an enormously important topic.

Sanders: Where’d you live?

Daily News: Well, I have a place in Morristown.

Sanders: Yeah, sure.

Daily News: But when you were mayor of Vermont...

Sanders: Burlington.

Daily News: Mayor of Burlington, I'm sorry. I guess you're mayor of Vermont too. When you were mayor of Burlington and you revitalized the city to what it is today and you had a lot of opposition when you became mayor. One of the ways you were able to succeed in making all the changes in a very pragmatic way is that you had a lot of grassroots organizations...

Sanders: That's right.

Daily News: ...that were able to put a lot of influence with local government.

Sanders: Yes.

Daily News: Is that possible to be able to do that at the federal level?

Sanders: Absolutely. And that's something I was just talking in response to your question. Okay. People say to me, "Well, Bernie, how are you going to bring about change?" You've got Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan or whatever it is. Are they going to do the things you want? And the answer is no. But the way change happened in Burlington is we had tremendous opposition. By the way, I ran as an independent...it was mostly Democrats who opposed me at that point. We rallied the people in the city, the grassroots organizations. A year later, we won more seats on the city council to give us veto power. And mostly the Democrats understood that the sentiments were changing. They started working with me. That's what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is millions of people.

For example, let me give you just a concrete example of that, two examples. Right now, I gather yesterday it was, correct me if I'm wrong, the governor and legislature reached an agreement here for $15 an hour minimum wage. Correct?

Daily News: Correct.

Sanders: Okay. Now if you and I were sitting here five years ago and I said, "You know, I think in 2016, there'll be a $15-an-hour agreement," you would have said I was crazy, correct?

Daily News: I'm not sure.

Sanders: Many people would have. But what happened? What happened is a grassroots movement developed. Remember, the national minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, it's a big jump.

Daily News: Yeah, right, it is.

Sanders: Okay. It happened because people stood up and fought back, alright? In the Congress right now, massive effort on the part of Republicans to cut Social Security, and some Democrats. I formed a caucus called the Defending Social Security Caucus. They haven't cut Social Security. We rallied senior citizens. So to answer your question, that is exactly the model I am talking about.

Daily News: Okay, well, now let me...

Jane Sanders: We doubled voter turnout. I think it's important to...

Sanders: That’s my spokesman.

Daily News: Good, thank you. So I want to focus you on some international issues, starting with Israel. While speaking forcefully of Israel's need for security, you said that peace will require an end to attacks of all kinds and recognition of Israel's right to exist. Just to be clear, does that mean recognition of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

Sanders: Of course…that's the status quo.

Daily News: Okay. You've called not just for a halting construction of so-called settlements on the West Bank, but you've also called for pulling back settlements, just as Israel did in Gaza. Describe the pullback that you have in mind.

Sanders: Well, that's the Israeli government's plan, but I think that right now...I'm not going to run the Israeli government. I've got enough problems trying to be a United States senator or maybe President of the United States.

Daily News: No, but if you are President, you will, I assume, become deeply enmeshed in attempting the peace process.

Sanders: I assume that's something...

Daily News: And where you start on the negotiations is important.

Sanders: Here's the main point that I want to make. I lived in Israel. I have family in Israel. I believe 100% not only in Israel's right to exist, a right to exist in peace and security without having to face terrorist attacks. But from the United States' point of view, I think, long-term, we cannot ignore the reality that you have large numbers of Palestinians who are suffering now, poverty rate off the charts, unemployment off the charts, Gaza remaining a destroyed area. And I think that for long-term peace in that region, and God knows nobody has been successful in that for 60 years, but there are good people on both sides, and Israel is not, cannot, just simply expand when it wants to expand with new settlements. So I think the United States has got to help work with the Palestinian people as well. I think that is the path toward peace.

Daily News: I was talking about something different, though. Expanding settlements is one thing; coming into office as a President who said as a baseline that you want Israel to pull back settlements, that changes the dynamic in the negotiations, and I'm wondering how far and what you want Israel to do in terms of pulling back.

Sanders: Well, again, you're asking me a very fair question, and if I had some paper in front of me, I would give you a better answer. But I think if the expansion was illegal, moving into territory that was not their territory, I think withdrawal from those territories is appropriate.

Daily News: And who makes the call about illegality, in your mind?

Sanders: Well, I think that's based on previous treaties and ideas. I happen to think that those expansions were illegal.

Daily News: Okay, so if we were to find Israeli settlements, so-called settlements, in places that has been designated to be illegal, you would expect Israel to be pulling them back?

Sanders: Israel will make their own decisions. They are a government, an independent nation. But to the degree that they want us to have a positive relationship, I think they're going to have to improve their relationship with the Palestinians.

Daily News: Okay, but I'm just talking about, you’d be getting involved in the negotiations, and this would be setting a benchmark for the negotiations that you would enter the talks, if you do, having conveyed to both parties, including the Palestinians, that there's a condition here that you want Israel to remove what you described as "illegal settlements." That's going to be the baseline. Now, if you're really...

Sanders: Well, there’s going to be a lot of things on the baselines. There are going to be demands being made of the Palestinian folks as well. When you sit down and negotiate, obviously...

Daily News: And what are those demands?

Sanders: Well, for a start, the absolute condemnation of all terrorist attacks. The idea that in Gaza there were buildings being used to construct missiles and bombs and tunnels, that is not where foreign aid should go. Foreign aid should go to housing and schools, not the development of bombs and missiles.

Daily News: Okay. Now, you have obviously condemned Hamas for indiscriminate rocket attacks and the construction of the military tunnels. But you've also criticized Israel for what you described as a disproportionate response.

Sanders: Yep.

Daily News: And I'm going to look at 2014, which was the latest conflict. What should Israel have done instead?

Sanders: You're asking me now to make not only decisions for the Israeli government but for the Israeli military, and (this entire intro where Sanders indicated WHAT HE WAS ADDRESSING WAS LEFT OFF THE THE SUPPOSED 'QUOTE') I don't quite think I'm qualified to make decisions. But I think it is fair to say that the level of attacks against civilian areas...and I do know that the Palestinians, some of them, were using civilian areas to launch missiles. Makes it very difficult. But I think most international observers would say that the attacks against Gaza were indiscriminate and that a lot of innocent people were killed who should not have been killed. Look, we are living, for better or worse, in a world of high technology, whether it's drones out there that could, you know, take your nose off, and Israel has that technology. And I think there is a general belief that, with that technology, they could have been more discriminate in terms of taking out weapons that were threatening them.

Daily News: Do you support the Palestinian leadership's attempt to use the International Criminal Court to litigate some of these issues to establish that, in their view, Israel had committed essentially war crimes?

Sanders: No.

Daily News: Why not?

Sanders: Why not?

Daily News: Why not, why it...

Sanders: Look, why don't I support a million things in the world? I'm just telling you that I happen to believe...anybody help me out here, because I don't remember the figures, but my recollection is over 10,000 innocent people were killed in Gaza. Does that sound right?

Daily News: I think it's probably high, but we can look at that.

Sanders: I don't have it in my number...but I think it's over 10,000. My understanding is that a whole lot of apartment houses were leveled. Hospitals, I think, were bombed. So yeah, I do believe and I don't think I'm alone in believing that Israel's force was more indiscriminate than it should have been.

Daily News: Okay. We will check the facts. I don't want to venture a number that I'm not sure on, but we will check those facts. Now, talk about Hamas. What is it? Is it a terrorist organization?

Sanders: Yes.

Daily News: Okay. Hezbollah too?

Sanders: Yes.

Daily News: Okay. Now switching more broadly to the Middle East and some of the other troubled areas, with ISIS. The Obama administration has been using this drone program, right? What are your thoughts on that, their use of...

Sanders: Well, first off, let me just talk about the Middle East. I talked about one of the differences that exists between Secretary Clinton and myself. I think we can argue reasonably that the most important and significant and far-reaching debate that we've had on foreign policy in this country in recent years was on the war in Iraq. Not only did I vote against the war in Iraq, not only did I lead the opposition to the war, helped lead the opposition to the war in Iraq, if you look at the statements that I made on the floor of the House in 2002, sadly to say, much of what I feared would happen actually has happened. Hillary Clinton's views were very different. She supported the war in Iraq.

Now, in terms of ISIS, this is a barbaric organization that obviously has got to be destroyed. But it must and can be destroyed without the United States getting involved in perpetual warfare in the Middle East, something that I fear very, very much.

So my view is that, very similar to what King Abdullah of Jordan said, that essentially the war against ISIS is a war over the soul of Islam. And the war must be won by Muslim troops on the ground with the support of the United States and other major powers. That is what I believe. And I think President Obama, who has been criticized roundly by Republicans and others for being "too soft," "too weak," whatever. In fact, that strategy is, under very difficult circumstances, actually beginning to prove to be a success. ISIS has lost about 40% of the territory it controlled in Iraq. We've seen the Iraqi army maybe, maybe God willing [knocks on wood], show some fighting spirit, being able to take back Ramadi. And so, we've seen some success.

Daily News: Okay, while we were sitting here, I double-checked the facts. It's the miracle of the iPhone. My recollection was correct. It was about 2,300, I believe, killed, and 10,000 wounded. President Obama has taken the authority for drone attacks away from the CIA and given it to the U.S. military. Some say that that has caused difficulties in zeroing in on terrorists, their ISIS leaders. Do you believe that he's got the right policy there?

Sanders: I don't know the answer to that. What I do know is that drones are a modern weapon. When used effectively, when taking out ISIS or terrorist leaders, that's pretty impressive. When bombing wedding parties of innocent people and killing dozens of them, that is, needless to say, not effective and enormously counterproductive. So whatever the mechanism, whoever is in control of that policy, it has to be refined so that we are killing the people we want to kill and not innocent collateral damage.

Daily News: Okay. American Special Forces recently killed a top ISIS commander, after they'd hoped to capture him. They felt, from what the news reports were, that they had no choice at that. What would you do with a captured ISIS commander?

Sanders: Imprison him.

Daily News: Where?

Sanders: And try to get as much information out of him. If the question leads us to Guantanamo...

Daily News: Well, no, separate and apart from Guantanamo, it could be there, it could be anywhere. Where would a President Sanders imprison, interrogate? What would you do?

Sanders: Actually I haven't thought about it a whole lot. I suppose, somewhere near the locale where that person was captured. The best location where that individual would be safely secured in a way that we can get information out of him.

Daily News: Would it be in the United States?

Sanders: Would it be in the United States? It could be, yeah.

Daily News: Yeah. I mean, some of these places are lawless lands. You've got Libya, you've got Yemen. If Special Forces...

Sanders: If the question is do I believe that terrorists could be safely imprisoned in the United States, the answer is yes.

Daily News: Yeah. Okay.

Daily News: I have just a couple New York, quick questions. Will there be a New York debate?

Sanders: Well, that's a good question. If I have anything to say about it, there would. It's hard for me to imagine that somebody who was a United States senator here for eight years would not be willing to debate issues of importance to New York and issues of importance to the United States of America. So the answer is, we have asked for that debate. I think the staffs are talking. My understanding is that the Clinton people are kind of dragging their feet. So the answer is I would love to see a debate, yes.

Daily News: I know you've got to go in a second. When was the last time you rode the subway? Are you gonna a campaign in the subway?

Sanders: Actually we rode the subway, Mike, when we were here? About a year ago? But I know how to ride the subways. I’ve been on them once or twice.

Daily News: Do you really? Do you really? How do you ride the subway today?

Sanders: What do you mean, "How do you ride the subway?"

Daily News: How do you get on the subway today?

Sanders: You get a token and you get in.

Daily News: Wrong.

Sanders: You jump over the turnstile.

Daily News: We would like our photographer to be there when you jump over the turnstile.

Sanders: I'm like anybody when I….

Daily News: Returning to another New York issue. We're just a few blocks away from the World Trade Center.

Sanders: Yup.

Daily News: Down in Guantanamo, there's Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the architect. I believe you're against the death penalty. Are you against the death penalty for him?

Sanders: Yup.

Daily News: You are. Why is that?

Sanders: Because I think the death penalty does not prove to be effective in stopping the crimes that we want to see stopping. And second of all, at a time when virtually every major country on Earth has eliminated the death penalty, for right reasons. In a world of as much violence as currently exists, I don't believe government, our government, should be involved in killing.

Daily News: But you place Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, if you do, I'm asking, in the same moral basket as the street criminals under that...

Sanders: No. I place him as a murderous disgusting terrorist, and we have seen in this country terrible crimes have been...I don't need to explain to anybody in this room people coming out with automatic weapons and killing children in Sandy Hook. Disgusting crimes. I happen to believe that, in the long run, from a moral perspective, and from an effectiveness perspective, the death penalty does not work.

Daily News: But you would have no hesitation about killing him if a drone found him on a battlefield?

Sanders: Well, unfortunately we live in a...that's right. There is a difference. If I have you captured and I kill you, it's different than killing you on the battlefield. I think that is a very different moral...but if you're asking me am a pacifist, don't believe in killing people in war, that's not my position.

Daily News: So speaking of New York and issues important to New York and speaking of death. Last year, after the Oregon Community College shootings, you promised a comprehensive gun control agenda. When are we going to see that and what can you tell us...

Sanders: Well, I've talked about it, you have seen it. What the agenda is is very similar to where to where President Obama is. President Obama said at that Oregon speech…… with a great deal of emotion. That he thought this was an issue that's never going to be permanently solved. Nobody can guarantee that some lunatic is not going to pick up a gun today and kill people. But we have to do the best that we can to prevent those type of killings. And what we do, in my view, is significantly strengthen and expand the instant background check. What we do is do away with the gun show loophole, where people now are buying guns from unlicensed dealers. What we do is do away with the straw man provision, where you can buy a gun legally and then sell it to somebody who's a criminal. I think what we also is significantly expand mental health capabilities to try to address the fact that we have thousands of people walking in this country today who are suicidal and homicidal. So I support pretty much the President's agenda.

Daily News: Just to be clear, the press release your campaign put out the day of that announcement of the forthcoming comprehensive plan, you made that announcement, those were the four points you made then. Have you moved any further beyond that?

Sanders: Well, I don't know that anyone has moved...I think that's the President's vision, that's my position.

Daily News: There's a case currently waiting to be ruled on in Connecticut. The victims of the Sandy Hook massacre are looking to have the right to sue for damages the manufacturers of the weapons. Do you think that that is something that should be expanded?

Sanders: Do I think the victims of a crime with a gun should be able to sue the manufacturer, is that your question?

Daily News: Correct.

Sanders: No, I don't.

Daily News: Let me ask you. I know we're short on time. Two quick questions. Your website talks about...

Sanders: No, let me just...I'm sorry. In the same sense that if you're a gun dealer and you sell me a gun and I go out and I kill him [gestures to someone in room]…. Do I think that that gun dealer should be sued for selling me a legal product that he misused? [Shakes head no.] But I do believe that gun manufacturers and gun dealers should be able to be sued when they should know that guns are going into the hands of wrong people. So if somebody walks in and says, "I'd like 10,000 rounds of ammunition," you know, well, you might be suspicious about that. So I think there are grounds for those suits, but not if you sell me a legal product. But you're really saying...

Daily News: Do you think that the discussion and debate about what defines a legal product, what should be a legal product, hence AR-15s, these automatic military-style weapons...which is the grounds of this suit at the moment is that this should have never been in the hands of the public.

Sanders: Well, you're looking at a guy...let's talk about guns for one second. Let’s set the record straight because of…unnamed candidates who have misrepresented my views. You're looking at a guy who has a D, what was it, D minus voting record from the NRA? Not exactly a lobbyist for the NRA, not exactly supporting them.

But it's interesting that you raised that question. If you'll remember this, if you were in Vermont in 1988 [gestures to Vermonter in the room], three people were running for the United States Congress. We have one seat, Vermont. Two of them supported assault weapons. One candidate, Bernie Sanders, said, in 1988, "No, I do not support the sale and distribution of assault weapons in this country." I lost that election by three points. Came in second. And that may have been the reason, that I was opposed by all of the gun people, okay? So to answer your question, I do not believe, I didn't believe then and I don't believe now that those guns should be sold in America. They're designed for killing people.

Daily News: So do you think then, with that in mind, that the merits of the current case are baseless?

Sanders: It's not baseless. I wouldn't use that word. But it's a backdoor way. If you're questioning me, will I vote to ban assault weapons in the United States, yeah, I will.

Daily News: Two quick questions. One is your website talks about physical violence perpetrated by the state against African Americans.

Sanders: Yeah.

Daily News: It also says, "We need new rules on the allowable use of force." Such as?

Sanders: Such as do what many other countries are doing. Look, you've got somebody who's clearly mentally ill outside, right? Ranting and raving, and maybe they have a knife in their hands. Are there ways to deal with that issue other than shooting that person? We have seen instances in my own state, all over this country, where the way that was dealt with by killing that person. There are ways to deal with that. So I think what I am suggesting here very forcefully is that we have got to train police offices to use lethal force as a last resort, not a first resort.

Daily News: Okay. Last question. If you are elected, alums of James Madison High School will be atop all three branches of the United States government, Congress, the Senate, the presidency, and the Supreme Court.

Sanders: Well, not quite the Supreme...

Daily News: Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Sanders: Well, she is there, but she's not...she's like a...yeah.

Daily News: Yeah, no. So what happened? What has happened to education in America that James Madison High School is not that type of production line anymore?

Sanders: That's a good question. And with all due respect, you went to Midwood...

Daily News: No, I live in Midwood.

Sanders: Oh, you live in...

Daily News: Yeah.

Sanders: All right, all right. Midwood was a pretty good school as well.

Daily News: My daughter is in Bronx Science.

Sanders: Okay. First off, we still have some great schools. Let's not dismiss that. On the other hand, we have schools that everybody knows are drop-out factories, that are terrible. The answer to the question, I think, has to do with devaluing the role of education in our society. I was in Wisconsin just the other day, talking to teachers, and they said, if you can believe this, that young people do not want to become teachers anymore. Because especially in that state, teachers in public education have been so vilified.

Can you imagine bright young people not wanting to do the enormously important job of teaching? So we've got to change that culture. Teaching, education, is of the highest importance in this country. Teachers deserve to be well-paid, well-respected. When I grew up in that community, this was a community of immigrants, largely immigrants who understood the power of education. We had great teachers and we had great schools. I think we can do that again.

Daily News: Okay. Thank you very much.

Sanders: Thank you.

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 8:10 PM

Even coin tosses are rigged!? Damn! it's like that with you guys. I really do hope Bernie or the Donald win, then we gonna see some real kick ass government.

How many days in office before Bernie actually changes Washington, DC?
Can anyone give me the scoop? How long before we see Wall Street fall to it's
knees and beg for mercy? And the banks, when will we see the CEOs line up to
pay tribute to his Bernieness? The magical and wonderful professor Sanders
waving his Wand of Socialist Republic of America to transform the country to
the land of milk and honey.

Or will it be the New Wave of the 4th Reich as the Donald deliver the US into
the den of goosestepping SS troops.

Ah, the American way!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Maybe Bernie taking Nevada will make up a little bit for Hillary magically winning all six coin tosses in Iowa.

Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 8:23 PM

True, someone must have figured out that he will need Hilary's votes to win the
general election...........soooooo, the walk-back. Denigrating Hilary also
succeeds in insulting her supporters, NOT SMART. The issues are many and
a president needs to address them all in the course of running the country.

Is he ready? Well, that answer will only come when he wins and is faced with
the reality. It's time to put up or shut up!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

For another, I consider a commitment to facing hard choices as opposed to taking the easy way out an important value in itself.

But in any case, the way Mr. Sanders is now campaigning raises serious character and values issues.
Somebody clued Bernie to the fact that his mouth was running faster than his brain, so he took back his Hillary is NOT qualified to be President. Everybody breathed a sigh of relief.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 10, 2016 1:55 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

God forbid Bernie should tell the truth. So here it is in very brief terms.

New York is full of Zionist Jews who think Israel is justified no matter what it does (oh look, Israel is a baby-USA), and it's the home of Wall Street and 2 bigee bank bankstas (rhymes with gangstas).

Those are exactly the people Hillary's been sucking up to. I guess that's what you have to do to win the state.

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Sunday, April 10, 2016 8:21 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

New York is full of Zionist Jews who think Israel is justified no matter what it does (oh look, Israel is a baby-USA), and it's the home of Wall Street and 2 bigee bank bankstas (rhymes with gangstas).

Those are exactly the people Hillary's been sucking up to. I guess that's what you have to do to win the state.

As an election strategy, that only works for Clinton if the Zionist plus Banker plus Stockbroker population is more than 10 million out of the 20 million New York State citizens. The Jewish population numbers 6.4 million U.S. adults and children out of 323 million. About 13% of all Jews in the U.S. live in New York City.

1kiki, why not just call Clinton a Zionist-stockbroker-banker rigidly committed to her native people? Make your insults more forceful. This is the internet and you can say anything to make a point. Nothing you write has to be true. There is no enforcement of any standards.

I think Clinton is really only a bleached white-bread politician who is speaking her mind and seeking a few Zionist, banker, stockbroker (ZBS) votes. But Clinton knows if she overdoes the ZBS side of her sympathies, she will lose everyone else. I think she can change her mind about the ZBS, when they cause too much trouble for her, since she was not born one of them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 10, 2016 2:31 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I thought you didn't believe in the power of the citizen vote to influence the government, Second. Now here you're telling me that the powerful AIPAC lobby, the powerful Wall Street lobby, the powerful bank lobby and the 1.75 millions Jews in New York State (a single-identity bloc roughly 9% of the population) - and their media handmaidens - have no influence over Hillary's coffers, her media image, or her reach. Because voters are so independent and powerful.

Which is it?

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Monday, April 11, 2016 2:42 AM

Well, at least you did one better than Bernie. You answered a question directly.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
" So, his intentions are not honorable?"

Not with his neo-CON State Department, spying on us, drone strikes, and pushing those 'free' trade agreements. Those are all on him, and something he has complete control over.

So, no, his intentions are not honorable.

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Monday, April 11, 2016 2:57 AM

So you believe it's only the White House that needs fixing? And that all politicians have sold the US out. Or is it just Hilary that has turned this
nation into a Third World country? Do you actually know what a neocon is?

So the banks will benefit further, international law firms will hold us hostage,
Saudi Arabia will take over the US Banks (like Bank of America, who launders
money for the Russian Mob) and restructure our economy. The Global multinational
companies have nothing to do with workers here losing millions of jobs. One person and one person only is to blame, and that's Hilary Rodham Clinton.

If she's corrupt, as you so eloquently put it, then, I say, all those
motherfuckers are corrupt, beginning and ending with Ted Cruz & Trump. Those
evil bastards running the states too. FUCK THEM ALL! That's what's needed.
Damn them all to hell. Name one of them that isn't a greedy, sleazeball,
scumbag son of a whore that's in on the TAKE.

Go ahead, I dare you to say Bernie!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Clinton IS corrupt. From her Wall Street speaking engagements to her list of top 20 donors to the hundreds of millions poured into the Clinton "foundation" from nations like Saudi Arabia, to her tenure as neocon head of the State Department, to her private email server...

Clinton is a bought, sold, butchered, graded, and packaged politician. You don't need a jury trial to figure that out.

I know exactly what she'll do when she gets into office: she'll represent the interests that have given her the most money: Banks, international law firms (like the Panamanian one that was just exposed), Saudi Arabia and the rest of the GCC, and the ultra-wealthy. She's for the TTP and TTIP. She's for Saudi Arabia, She's for the banks. Do you really think that Hillary will reform the WH in the way it so desperately needs?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, April 11, 2016 3:35 AM

Thanks Kiki for posting the DN interview, it was very enlightening.

I dare say that Bojangles would be proud of Bernie, and that he would have won
an Oscar for his performance, as he tap danced his way around the details. His
entire campaign is built on a House of Cards. There is no foundation to his
claims that he will dismantle the banks (as he has so vigorously extolled) and
reform Wall Street.

For example:

Daily News: I get that point. I'm just looking at the method because, actions have reactions, right? There are pluses and minuses. So, if you push here, you may get an unintended consequence that you don't understand. So, what I'm asking is, how can we understand? If you look at JPMorgan just as an example, or you can do Citibank, or Bank of America. What would it be? What would that institution be? Would there be a consumer bank? Where would the investing go?

Sanders: I'm not running JPMorgan Chase or Citibank.

Daily News: No. But you'd be breaking it up.

Sanders: That's right. And that is their decision as to what they want to do and how they want to reconfigure themselves. That's not my decision. All I am saying is that I do not want to see this country be in a position where it was in 2008, where we have to bail them out. And, in addition, I oppose that kind of concentration of ownership entirely.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what exactly is he going to do once he reaches the White House? Is he going to break up the banks? Is he going to restrict Wall Street? What changes will he
personally make to affect the economic landscape of our country, as he has
promised?

He states that he was on the Veteran Affairs Committee, yet you have veterans in
Arizona that were not allowed to vote. Does that seem right to you? What is his
voting record when it comes to veterans? What will he do when the time comes to
break up the banks? Does he know?

SGG

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Monday, April 11, 2016 8:11 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
So what exactly is he going to do once he reaches the White House? Is he going to break up the banks? Is he going to restrict Wall Street? What changes will he personally make to affect the economic landscape of our country, as he has
promised?

What will he do when the time comes to break up the banks? Does he know?

SGG

I am being mean to tired, old man Bernie but the easy slogan here is “Break up the big banks.” It’s obvious why this slogan is appealing from a political point of view: Wall Street supplies an excellent cast of villains. But were big banks really at the heart of the financial crisis, and would breaking them up protect us from future crises?

Many analysts concluded years ago that the answers to both questions were no. Predatory lending was largely carried out by smaller, non-Wall Street institutions like Countrywide Financial; the crisis itself was centered not on big banks but on “shadow banks” like Lehman Brothers that weren’t necessarily that big. And the financial reform that President Barack Obama signed in 2010 made a real effort to address these problems. It could and should be made stronger, but pounding the table about big banks misses the point. We all know old people who miss the point. I've got a crowd pleasing suggestion for Bernie: all Bankers are Terrorists and must die. Bernie can then be very specific about using drones against bank buildings and filling Guantanamo with bankers to be tortured. That is what I call a detailed plan for breaking up big banks. He won't need Congressional approval, which he can't get anyway, for more moderate plans.

Yet going on about big banks is pretty much all Sanders has done. On the rare occasions on which he was asked for more detail, he didn’t seem to have anything more to offer. And this absence of substance beyond the slogans seems to be true of his positions across the board.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 11, 2016 11:16 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SECOND-

The big banks were desk-deep in the 2008 panic .... They engaged in robo signing

Quote:
In 2010, it was revealed that several large banks routinely used affidavits signed by employees who did not personally review the documents and had no basis for believing that the homeowner was in default or that the bank owned the loan. Employees for financial giants like Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Wells Fargo, and GMAC have all testified that they signed many thousands of affidavits a month, spending about 30 seconds on each affidavit, and that they didn't have a clue regarding the veracity of the affidavit or the documents in question -- hence the name "robosigners." In 2012, a $25 billion settlement among 49 state attorneys general, federal regulators and five banks that was announced in 2012, and in early 2013, federal regulators announced a $9.3 billion settlement with 13 banks over the robo-signing scandal and other abuses.

Now, why would banks like Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Wells Fargo, and GMAC be "robosigning" affidavits if they did not hold many of these subprime mortgages?

In addition to these large banks having bought many subprime mortgages, they also bought Mortgage Backed Obligations (MBOs) and Credit Default Swaps (CDSs) which insinuated specious mortgages into financial institutions everywhere (including large insurers like AIG).

While the "big boys" could withstand the shock of the subprime collapse, many medium-sized ones couldn't. Here is a list of banks which became insolvent in 2008:

Wachovia, Downey S&L, Indy Mac S&L, Colonial Bank, Guaranty Bank S&L, and WaMu S%L. In addition are several large American insurers like Ambac (which also insured municipal bonds, which made a huge mess of that bond market.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_acquired_or_bankrupted_dur
ing_the_Great_Recession

Trying to pin it all on the "shadow banks" ignores the point that these "shadow banks" SOLD the mortgages elsewhere, and found ready buyers in investment banks, depositor banks, and insurers.

In any case the environment is no longer the same as before. Large banks are now protected by "bail in" provisions in which YOUR DEPOSIT is no longer considered your money, but instead is considered as an unsecured LOAN to the bank. Should this bank fail, it can exchange YOUR MONEY for stock shares of the bank (of unknown value).

In theory, the first roughly $250,000 is protected by FDIC, but in reality if you have your money in a credit union (for example) or a smaller bank, these institutions save their money in larger in institutions in large uninsured deposits. And if the bail-in measures need to be invoked, the shit has already hit the fan.

Instead of large, un-insurable banks, we really need smaller ones.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, April 11, 2016 3:18 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/2009/09/credit-union-members-bewa
re-your-credit.html

private insurer of credit unions - take home message - if you don't or can't look up who's insuring your credit union, make sure you have one with the word 'federal' in its name ... you will avoid private insurance that way

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Monday, April 11, 2016 3:26 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, April 11, 2016 5:57 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hillary's RECORD on Israel

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33868-what-we-can-expect-from-hilla
ry-clinton-on-israel-palestine

One of the big challenges regarding the application of international law is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which involves a foreign belligerent occupation, illegal colonization, war crimes committed by both the occupying power and at least one arm of the resistance, and scores of UN Security Council resolutions. As senator and subsequently, Hillary Clinton has developed a reputation as one of the most right-wing Democrats on Israel/Palestine, repeatedly siding with Likud-led governments against Israeli progressives and moderates, and taking a dismissive attitude regarding the application of international law or any role for the United Nations.

As a senator, Clinton defended Israel's colonization efforts in the occupied West Bank and was highly critical of the United Nations for its efforts to uphold international humanitarian law, which forbids transferring civilian populations onto territories under foreign belligerent occupation. Clinton criticized the UN's enforcement of four UN Security Council resolutions calling on Israel to end the practice, and even took the time for a 2005 visit to a major Israeli settlement in the occupied West Bank in a show of support. She moderated that stance somewhat as secretary of state in expressing concerns over how the right-wing Israeli government's settlement policies harmed the overall climate of the peace process, but she has refused to acknowledge the illegality of the settlements or demand that Israel abide by international demands to stop building additional settlements. Subsequently, she has argued that the Obama administration pushed too hard in the early years of the administration to get Israel to suspend settlement construction.

In 2011, Clinton successfully pushed for a US veto of a UN Security Council resolution reiterating the illegality of the settlement drive and calling for a settlement freeze. The UN Security Council has traditionally been the vehicle for enforcing international law in territories under foreign belligerent occupation, but Clinton noted, "We have consistently over many years said that the United Nations Security Council - and resolutions that would come before the Security Council - is not the right vehicle to advance the goal," despite the US failure to stop this colonization drive on its own.

Hillary's RECORD on

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2016/01/16/clinton-record-wall
-street-laissez-faire/Z2a3iOsj40wryeRN2iT6qK/story.html

She took a mostly hands-off approach to Wall Street regulation. With banks enjoying a new era of deregulation that her husband helped create, a neutralized Clinton represented a win for the financial services industry and its perpetual effort to free itself from Washington’s hand.

The Boston Globe reviewed eight years of lobbying disclosure forms for the four financial services firms that donated the most money to Hillary Clinton while she was in the Senate. The review examined which banking and finance bills those banks cared the most about, and whether she took a position on them.

The junior senator from New York rarely signed on to bills related to the financial services industry — whether the banks supported or opposed the measures. Of the 189 Senate bills that their lobbyists identified as significant banking or finance legislation, she cosponsored only 25.

Of those, most of the ones she put her name on were also backed by Schumer — a member of the Senate Banking Committee who has never been known as an anti-Wall Street crusader.

“She was not a champion of the financial sector, nor was she an antagonist,” said one financial services executive who lobbied her while she was in the Senate. “The financial sector viewed her as neutral. Not helpful, but also not harmful.”

https://www.propublica.org/article/hillary-clinton-mixed-record-on-wal
l-street-tough-cut-it-out-talk

Hillary Clinton’s Mixed Record on Wall Street Belies Her Tough ‘Cut it Out’ Talk

In dealing with Wall Street, Clinton faced the same challenge as any lawmaker representing New York, where the financial industry includes not only constituents but campaign donors. Wall Street executives were the largest donors to both her 2006 Senate re-election bid and her 2008 presidential race; employees of just eight banking firms gave $2.67 million to those campaigns, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics, a non-profit research group.

Clinton in 2007 publicly decried a tax break for hedge-fund and private-equity executives — and continues to do so in her current campaign. But she didn’t sign on as a supporter of a Senate bill that would have curbed the break.

As a senator, Clinton also had a brush with the shadow-banking world that she now describes as a continuing threat to the financial system. When AIG, the giant insurance company and poster child for lightly regulated finance, began to implode in September 2008, Clinton reached out to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who was involved in talks to rescue the firm with government funds. Her little-noticed overture came on behalf of some wealthy investors who stood to lose millions and had hired two longtime associates of the Clintons to represent them.

During Clinton’s first presidential campaign, her official campaign website gave short shrift to financial or housing matters. In April 2008, the section of the website called “Hillary on the Issues” listed 14 topics; none involved housing, mortgages or Wall Street.

On Sept. 18, 2008, as the government grappled with collapsing markets, Clinton took to the Senate floor. “After years of laissez-faire policies for the middle class, the Bush administration has acted on behalf of Wall Street, with the largest and most significant Federal interventions in the history of our modern financial system,” she said. (but) A day before that speech, Clinton had quietly reached out to Paulson, Bush’s Treasury secretary, on behalf of some wealthy investors in AIG. The giant insurer had made bad bets on the mortgage market, couldn’t pay its debts and faced imminent collapse. Shareholders were poised to lose billions if the company went bankrupt or was taken over by the government.

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Monday, April 11, 2016 7:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
God forbid Bernie should tell the truth. So here it is in very brief terms.

New York is full of Zionist Jews who think Israel is justified no matter what it does (oh look, Israel is a baby-USA), and it's the home of Wall Street and 2 bigee bank bankstas (rhymes with gangstas).

Those are exactly the people Hillary's been sucking up to. I guess that's what you have to do to win the state.

How does this story mesh with Hilliary constantly pulling the rug out from under Israel, and all the Libtard Jews of America voting against Netanyahu?

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Monday, April 11, 2016 7:47 PM