FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Ramblings on Bushwacked

POSTED BY: TRICKSTER
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 23:40
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Friday, September 27, 2002 5:06 PM

TRICKSTER


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This is how dumb I can be sometimes. I'm listening to the voiceover at the beginning, going, "I know that voice. Who is that?" And then I realize, he's on the show. Yeah.

Last week they open with Chinese checkers. This week it's basketball. Hee. I want to see Inara play.

A Firefly/Farscape crossover is just waiting to happen.

Kaylee's sporting cleavage. Now, while I'm sure there are plenty of people who are pleased just by that, I like that they're not consistently hiding her behind dirt and grease and coveralls because she's the token gadget girl.

Oh my God. Doug Savant is guest starring.

I like Wash. I didn't get to see much of him last week, so I couldn't really form an opinion. This week's opinion is very favorable. He's cool.

Speaking of characters I can't form opinions of yet (I *need* that first real ep), I may have to hit Book. Give him something to say that's not all preachy just because it's his job.

Also, River. I'm sure if I saw the original premiere I would be sympathetic, or something. As it is now, I'm just kind of annoyed. Of course, opinions can always change.

And Jayne's a jerk. Yet I totally love him.

I need to learn Chinese, just to know what they're all saying.

"Lotsa mercy. Lots and lots of... " Once again, I love Mal. I kind of saw that coming, but it still made me snerk and giggle.

The Reavers? I was sufficiently creeped, and we never even got to see them. All I knew was what I read in some article somewhere, and I was freaked. Especially since you only get to hear about them. The only glimpse you actually get of them is what the survivor guy does to himself, and there's just one shot of him.

"Jayne. You'll scare the women." Okay, I really really like Zoe. I'm a big fan of tough chick role model types, and Zoe definitely fits into it. She's so understated and cool about everything, I really like that.

"Besides, if I mess up, it's not like you'll be able to yell at me."

For the record, I've twice used "gorram" in everyday speech. Just shoot me now. Between Farscape and now this, I think by around 2005 my speech will consist of nothing but made up languages.

Gah. Okay, Matt from Melrose Place joined the Alliance. My willing suspension of disbelief is off in a corner giggling somewhere.

The interrogations. Kaylee still burning over Serenity being called junk, Jayne just sitting there, Wash describing Zoe in detail...

I still want their kitchen chairs.

They name the planets after Persephone and Hera. Oh my God, I love this show.

There's a cannibal on the loose, and I for one, was kind wigged. When River's trying to keep Simon out of the room (I need to learn names for rooms), I was screeching at the TV for him to just shut up and listen to her.

Mal's got a Han Solo stripe on his pants. Also, blood on them. That being said, him killing the survivor guy was kinda cool.

If I have nightmares about Reavers tonight, I'm suing Tim Minear.


Natalie

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Friday, September 27, 2002 6:41 PM

CANTINERA


I absolutely love Zoe, too. I like the tough chick vibe she has. I liked her interview a lot, too, especially in contrast with her husband.

Simon is great. Not only is he eye-candy, but he has the personality I like in a guy.

I really liked this episode. I did like the Western style of the first, but the eerie vibe of this one really worked for me too.

Oh, and I like River when she was excited about hiding in space while her brother was freaked. I am intrigued about what could happen next. Overall, I really like this show, and I cannot wait till next week.

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Friday, September 27, 2002 7:24 PM

VOIDPRIME


Another great episode. the basketball scene at the ebginning reminded me of an scene from an Andromeda episode. I loved that Kaylee line. Book is becoming more interesting (and it helps I watched Serenity again today). Jayne loves playing jokes on Simon. The Alliance ship showing up creeped me out and then I was in awe at the size of the thing compared to the Serenity. This show is becoming so addictive that I might have to start my own Firefly fansite. have a better one.

Be Seeing You,
david Blackwell

ENTERLINE: http://enterline2.tripod.com/enterline

ANDROMEDA COMMONWEALTH:
http://enterline2.tripod.com/andromeda

FIREFLY site of my own:
we'll see

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Friday, September 27, 2002 9:12 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Quote:

Originally posted by Trickster:


And Jayne's a jerk. Yet I totally love him.

Natalie



Stop it! You're trying to make me fall in love with you!

I totally want their kitchen chairs too.

Kaylee is the coolest girl in the world and I totally want to be her.

I'm starting to think Blue Sun is some kind of school for not too bright mercenary types.

I didn't actually hate River this episode. She smiled in the face of infinity. In the face of the very thing that caused the Reavers to lose their minds in the first place. Very cool. Now if she'd only learn to use complete sentences.

And if it makes my boyfriend smile like that, playing jokes on the doc is just fine with me.



"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:56 AM

TRICKSTER


Quote:

Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:
And if it makes my boyfriend smile like that, playing jokes on the doc is just fine with me.




And hey, the way I see it, it gave Simon something to *do*, other than just protect River, which leads to character development and I'm completely BSing cuz I was totally into Jayne's smile.


Natalie

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 6:21 AM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


Firefly and Farscape could NEVER cross over. They do not exist in the same creative universe.

________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right, not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 7:26 AM

ALTERNITY


My favorite part was the interviews/interrogations; each character acted very differently in the interview, they were very much themselves, and it annoyed the interviewer. The best were Kaylee rambling on about mechanical things and junk and Jayne just not saying anything. Kaylee is so cute, especially with dirt and grease on her face.

It’s a big mystery how all these people got together. Maybe that’s in the pilot. The captain, Mal, seems especially protective of Kaylee. He treats her like his daughter. Maybe it’s because she is young and he doesn’t think she should be part of his reckless operation. Maybe that was something addressed in the original pilot?

Jayne annoyed me at first but now I see that he's a contradiction, he amuses me. He's the tough guy but such an easy target for ridicule. He played the mean high school bully trick on Simon, but then Simon repaid him at least twice later on with some comments that everyone understood.

roj

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 7:44 AM

MISTERELBERT


Quote:

Originally posted by JaynesGirlfriend:
I didn't actually hate River this episode. She smiled in the face of infinity. In the face of the very thing that caused the Reavers to lose their minds in the first place. Very cool. Now if she'd only learn to use complete sentences.



Would anyone be surprised if the Reavers were more work of the Allience Blue Hands gone horribly wrong?

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 8:21 AM

ALTERNITY


By the way, my Jewel Staite website is at jewelstaite.net (why doesn't that show up in my profile?)

roj

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 8:38 AM

PIPER


I never even considered an Alliance/Reavers connection!! Very interesting.

My favorite humorous moment has to be the Zoe to Jayne line "You'll scare the women." Could that line have been delivered any more perfectly!!!

Scariest moment-Yes, the Reavers creeped me out terribly-even though we never even saw them! But for scariest moment, my heart actually skipped a beat when Mal climbed the stairs and saw Simon and River hiding in the hallway with the Alliance right there. I cannot believe how emotionally invested I am in these characters already!

Favorite Character-Wash. But I want more, more, more!!

Can't wait for next week. Sure do wish we could have seen the original plot like Joss wanted! And we need to find someone who speaks chinese!

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 8:38 AM

PIPER


I never even considered an Alliance/Reavers connection!! Very interesting.

My favorite humorous moment has to be the Zoe to Jayne line "You'll scare the women." Could that line have been delivered any more perfectly!!!

Scariest moment-Yes, the Reavers creeped me out terribly-even though we never even saw them! But for scariest moment, my heart actually skipped a beat when Mal climbed the stairs and saw Simon and River hiding in the hallway with the Alliance right there. I cannot believe how emotionally invested I am in these characters already!

Favorite Character-Wash. But I want more, more, more!!

Can't wait for next week. Sure do wish we could have seen the original plot like Joss wanted! And we need to find someone who speaks chinese!

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 11:07 AM

EACHMAN


I've only been able to see half of this episode (I'm in Europe and depend on downloads). I love the look of the series, but I'm less keen on the dialogue and accents. The Chinese bits are cool, very Blade Runner-esque, but I think the Western in Space is laid on a bit thick. Also, it seems to be very "American" - more so than Buffy and Angel which always seemed to have this very appealing quirky British influence.

I like the tension in this episode, the Reavers freak me out. Hope I get to see the second half soon.

http://WHEDONesque.com
discussing the jossverse

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 11:18 AM

REYVNDARKNIGHT


So far so good. That is my opninion of Firefly to date. Both the pilot and "Bushwacked" established the characters without detracting from the story of the episode.

My thoughts about the Reavers:

Maybe they are an alien race that were in the system when the humans arrived and the blue hands are the military defensive/offensive answer the Alliance has developed to depend people from the aliens.

Why say that you may ask? Well, glad ya asked. If this show is a sci-fi reflection of the United States western frontier after the Civil War and the Alliance/Independents is the appropriate analogy to the Union/Conferacy, then the Reavers are analogous to the Native Americans. For all we, the viewers, know, Reavers may be the slang that the humans use in much the same way Redskin was used for Native Americans.

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 12:03 PM

NESS


They're basketball game at the beginning was cute. Kaylee riding on Janye's shoulders to score a basket. It was a good example of crew unity; they just don't do crime.

Okay, what's the deal with the Blue Sun thing? Joss mentioned it during one of the interviews on the offical site. It was also on Janye's shirt. I managed to recognize the character for sun.

They need to bring the Reavers back. Just seeing the guy they drove crazy was creepy enough. I kinda jumped when the dead guy hit Serenity's front. I was totally expecting Mal to make a quip after he snapped the guy's neck but nothing came. Guess that's what happens when you watch too much Buffy.

All in all, it wasn't a bad second (or fourth) episode.

"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing." - Zoe

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 1:05 PM

DELVO


No, they're humans, they've just got to be diseased or drugged. They were treated as "fallen" humans in the show, and quotes from JW make it clear that he's avoiding the usual sci-fi silliness of aliens that are amazingly similar to humans living on every other planet. It's a basic premise of this show that humans alone are good enough to make good science fiction and "explore the facets of humanity" that Trek uses aliens that aren't alien for, so therefor it's all about what becomes of the human race after exporing some space and living, alone, on multiple different planets.

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 2:00 PM

KALIMAC


I realize it may be silly to comment on so small a thing, but I love how the VFX shots are done to seem as though they're shot with a camera, just like the rest of the show.

You know, how it zooms out suddenly, taking a moment to focus. It's very naturalistic, but disorienting. I loved it.

(Sorry to say it, but didn't this feel like a Star Trek episode to anyone else?)

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 2:40 PM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kalimac:
I realize it may be silly to comment on so small a thing, but I love how the VFX shots are done to seem as though they're shot with a camera, just like the rest of the show.

That's not a silly comment at all. Check out this comment from JW himself:
Quote:

You have the latex monsters in Buffy and Angel, but this seems like it would be a lot more FX heavy.
Whedon: It is. It is. We've got Radium just going out of their minds, Radium Effects, and doing the best visual effects that I've ever seen on TV. They're better than most movies I've seen and they've done an extraordinary job. Because the whole mission statement of the show is to put you there. It is not to make space something grand and epic that you watched from afar. It is to make it something mundane that is happening to you the way your life happens to you. To that end, we shot most of thing hand held. We tried to make it feel a little bit like somebody happened to have camera and found all these people talking, as opposed to the stately, very controlled kind of filming that I usually do with Buffy and Angel. Radium and Loni Peristere are so great at giving you something that feels messy. So their shots, they find folks late, they'll be following a space ship and lose it and come back and zoom in sort of awkwardly. They've made it look like somebody had a handheld camera on the ground just watching space ships go, instead of the stately perfect shot, then cut to the inside and everything is shaking. It all feels very organic and that's a huge thing for me.



Full interview at www.scifi.com/scifimag/october2002/transcripts/.

Since you're into FX, you'll want to read Haken's interview with the Radium folks: www.fireflyfans.net/feature.asp?f=18


JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Saturday, September 28, 2002 3:40 PM

KALIMAC


Zic, thanks for the links - and the affirmation!

I missed this stuff 'cause before the show aired I was excessively avoiding spoilers.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 3:00 AM

TINYTIMM


Having slo-mode'd the ep and looked carefully I believe I identified some of the KEPs (Kinetic Energy Projectors) used in this ep.

Zoe: Had her cut down Winchester, Jayne held it for her while she suited up.

Mal: Still carrying that odd sidearm of unknown origin and capabilities.

Jayne: Not enough detail on the wall of his quarters. Gotta educate these explitive deleted camera types, they ignore the intesting guns and the full length of a woman's legs... While talking to the Doctor Jayne was loading a Taurus Revolver http://www.taurususa.com/m608.html with some kind of reflector sight. In the scene where Mal restrains the victim, Jayne has a different weapon. In the previews of the next ep, Jayne was holding a large weapon. It seemed to be a dressed up version of a Korean 12 gauge magazine fed shotgun.

The Alliance: Long arms a mix of British SA-80s http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2284200.stm and pistol caliber 9mm Heckler and Koch 94 carbines http://user.icx.net/~jonesgil/HK94.HTM

The Colonel was carrying a Beretta 92 or the Taurus copy. But I suspect the producers gave him a CZ-75 in the scene where he is attacked by the victim. Maybe it was cheaper to drop or they just want to mess with the detail oriented nitpickers.

Jeff
Who is a detail oriented nitpicker...but hey, any show that has Belly Dancers must be great.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 3:31 AM

BLUEBANRIGH


According to my sister they are actually speaking Mandarin (she's learning it right now) and she was laughing at their accents when I made her watch the download from the Train Job (the bar scene).

According to her he was asking for one coffee when he was talking to the bartender.

And the second line she didn't really hear correctly, but it mentioned something about someone not being happy. I'll have to get her to listen to it again.

If someone has the .wav files on line I can get her to listen and translate. She says it's good practice for her.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 6:47 AM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

The Colonel was carrying a Beretta 92 or the Taurus copy. But I suspect the producers gave him a CZ-75 in the scene where he is attacked by the victim. Maybe it was cheaper to drop or they just want to mess with the detail oriented nitpickers.
More likely, whoever's in charge of handing out guns just doesn't have your level of knowledge. They know that Alliance people always pack automatics, but can't tell a Wildey from a Browning. (Nor could I, until you educated me.) If they really knew guns, they'd never put a fancy gas-operated pistol in the hands of thug living on isolated frontier planet.

Quote:

Mal: Still carrying that odd sidearm of unknown origin and capabilities.
Could it be that modified H&A we discussed earlier?

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 7:05 AM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueBanrigh:
According to my sister they are actually speaking Mandarin (she's learning it right now) and she was laughing at their accents when I made her watch the download from the Train Job (the bar scene).

According to her he was asking for one coffee when he was talking to the bartender.

And the second line she didn't really hear correctly, but it mentioned something about someone not being happy. I'll have to get her to listen to it again.

If someone has the .wav files on line I can get her to listen and translate. She says it's good practice for her.

The Mandarin lines are also rendered phonetically on the closed captions, if that helps.

Coffee? Looked like a shot of something heavier. But perhaps I wasn't paying attention.

Here's a movie from the official site of NF practicing his Mandarin:

http://www.fox.com/firefly/video/trainjob_language.htm

A thought: Mandarin is the official language of both Chinas, but doesn't it have relatively few native speakers? Wouldn't a more popular dialect, such as Cantonese or Szechuan tend to predominate among Chinese colonists?

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 8:23 AM

REYVNDARKNIGHT


Quote:

Delvo:
No, they're humans, they've just got to be diseased or drugged. They were treated as "fallen" humans in the show, and quotes from JW make it clear that he's avoiding the usual sci-fi silliness of aliens that are amazingly similar to humans living on every other planet. It's a basic premise of this show that humans alone are good enough to make good science fiction and "explore the facets of humanity" that Trek uses aliens that aren't alien for, so therefor it's all about what becomes of the human race after exporing some space and living, alone, on multiple different planets.




To be honest, I hope Whedon changes his mind about that element of the series. As I said before, I like the element of western motif. But a sci-fi series without an alien or extra-terrestrial sub-plot and contiual western motif could limit the potential of the series as well as quickly wear thin the interest of some sci-fi fans.

Also along the language thread of discussion, did anyone recognize the language Inara was writing while she was watching River? Was it Mandarin or Japanese?

As for the use of Mandarin rather than Cantonese, who knows. Whedon may have chosen Mandarin because it is the language used by the Chinese diplomatic and educated class during the late 1800s.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:57 AM

ZICSOFT


Sorry Revyn, no aliens, period. JW doesn't believe in them.

Also (with apologies to everybody who's already heard this rant), I don't believe the "western" look is a "motif". It's a serious attempt to visualize frontier worlds where most people can't afford to buy all the latest technology.

I know this sounds preachy and nitpicky. But to me, the fact that Firefly tries to do things for a reason, instead of just for a "look" is one of the biggest reasons this show is a cut above most recent SF shows and movies. I'm tired of watching Special Effects in search of a Story. And from what I've heard, Joss Whedon's recent work is all driven by the fact that he loves to tell stories, and hates seeing his stories smothered in Special Effects.

About that calligraphy: written Japanese uses a lot of Chinese characters. So it's often hard to distinguish writing in the two languages. Here's an interesting page on the subject:

http://www.kanji.org/kanji/japanese/writing/outline.htm#2
JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:20 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Quote:

Originally posted by ReyvnDarKnight:

To be honest, I hope Whedon changes his mind about that element of the series. As I said before, I like the element of western motif. But a sci-fi series without an alien or extra-terrestrial sub-plot and contiual western motif could limit the potential of the series as well as quickly wear thin the interest of some sci-fi fans.



Saying that Firefly is going to get boring if aliens aren't introduced is basically just saying that humans, and more specifically the crew, are boring. And if thats true then no extraterrestrial force in the universe could possibly save it.

I, on the other hand believe that the presence of aliens, or lack thereof, isn't going to help or hinder the story possibilities of Firefly. Only the imaginations of the creator and writers could do that and I have faith that Joss can make his Western "motif" stretch as far as he wants it to.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 12:57 PM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
If they really knew guns, they'd never put a fancy gas-operated pistol in the hands of thug living on isolated frontier planet.


Actually some of the most reliable weapons are gas operated. All the Klashnikovs and the US M-1 Garand for example.

Quote:

Mal: Still carrying that odd sidearm of unknown origin and capabilities.
Could it be that modified H&A we discussed earlier?

I don't think so. It looks relatively long, like some of the Colt Percussion Revolvers.

Jeff
Who likes the challenge.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:05 PM

HOOK



Quote:

Delvo:
To be honest, I hope Whedon changes his mind about that element of the series. As I said before, I like the element of western motif. But a sci-fi series without an alien or extra-terrestrial sub-plot and contiual western motif could limit the potential of the series as well as quickly wear thin the interest of some sci-fi fans.



Hmm i guess some scifi fans don't like books like Brave new world, or Neuromancer, or Frankenstien, or movies like Blade runner, minority report or Pi....but to be honest i would have a hard time calling them scifi fans if they didn't like the above mentioned. Personally i find it refreshing to see a space opera scifi without Aliens. I am sick of aliens. They detract from good story telling more then they add.

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:07 PM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Actually some of the most reliable weapons are gas operated. All the Klashnikovs and the US M-1 Garand for example.
I was talking about a specific weapon, the Wildey you pointed out earlier. This is an unusual and expensive weapon even in our own time. In the Firefly universe, the cost and availability gap between the Wildey and more standard sidearms would be even more extreme.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Sunday, September 29, 2002 11:24 PM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Quote:

Actually some of the most reliable weapons are gas operated. All the Klashnikovs and the US M-1 Garand for example.
I was talking about a specific weapon, the Wildey you pointed out earlier. This is an unusual and expensive weapon even in our own time. In the Firefly universe, the cost and availability gap between the Wildey and more standard sidearms would be even more extreme.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!



Actually, given advanced computer controlled fabrication, all you may need are accurate plans and the right alloys.

Jeff
Who notes modern machines have cut the production costs of weapons. Legal actions have driven prices higher.

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Monday, September 30, 2002 6:24 AM

ZICSOFT


Hello! Frontier planets! Absence of industrial base! It's a basic premise of the show that most people can't afford all the latest technology.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Monday, September 30, 2002 8:10 AM

HJERMSTED


Quote:


To be honest, I hope Whedon changes his mind about that element of the series. As I said before, I like the element of western motif. But a sci-fi series without an alien or extra-terrestrial sub-plot and contiual western motif could limit the potential of the series as well as quickly wear thin the interest of some sci-fi fans.



A Whedon show is always more about the writing and the characters which (in my mind) makes for a stronger show anyway. The western motif is just the back drop and only is only prominant on the outskirts of the system (I'm sure we will see super high tech planets and cities as we move forward with the show).

Storywise, when you have more backdrop than foreground you end up with tepid (at best) sci fi along the lines of Lucas. That's fine for the kiddies but adults need more meat and potatoes in their science fiction. Whedon will give us a full meal, I'm sure.

Besides, Joss could always change his mind and write a first contact story arc that is different from all other takes on first contact.

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Monday, September 30, 2002 9:24 AM

KAYLEE


Ok. Got a Question. I don't know how to start a new thread so i'll just connect it to this one. Is Jayne gay? cause i was reading the 'Jaynestown' script today and one of the lines is

CROP: Found me one’s your new boyfriends, Jayne.

JAYNE: Ain’t one’a mine, Crop… (mirthless chuckle) Where you been hidin’? You gone and got yourself lookin’ mighty hideous…

Now is this just Crop slagging him off, or is Jayne really gay? Thanks.

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Monday, September 30, 2002 9:46 AM

ZICSOFT


Click on "Post New Thread" at the top of the page.

I don't think the "boyfriend" comment says anything one way or the other. Hypermacho types like Jayne are always ragging each other by expressing doubts about each other's masculinity -- which to them implies heterosexuality. Go watch Full Metal Jacket and you'll see what I mean.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Monday, September 30, 2002 10:21 AM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Hello! Frontier planets! Absence of industrial base! It's a basic premise of the show that most people can't afford all the latest technology.



But somebody has to have an industrial base, and they will produce weapons. The UK had a good sized industrial base in the 1800s, yet they imported weapons from the USofA. We just ripped off the design, cut priced the gimmicks and used it to great effect in the US Civil War.

Old saying, "Can you afford this sidearm? What's your life worth?"

Jeff
Who has not been in that position, thank ghod.

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Monday, September 30, 2002 10:38 AM

ZICSOFT


But the U.S. and the U.K were not that far apart in the period you describe. In some ways, the U.S. had already started to pull ahead.

A better comparison would be between the north and south during the civil war. A big reason the war happen was that north was participating in the industrial revoltion and the south wasn't, at least not to the same degree. And they didn't want to compete by emulating the north. So they tried to leave the union, only to find that this same lack of industry made it impossible to make enough guns, repair railways faster than the federals blew them up, etc.

Mal's Independents may not have emulated the Confederacy's fondness for slavery, but they do seem to have made the same mistakes about picking their battles. And, like the south during Reconstruction, the Independent worlds would be even further behind than before the war. So no factories to make fancy sidearms and no cash to buy them from the North, I mean the Alliance core worlds.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Monday, September 30, 2002 11:51 AM

TINYTIMM


Quote:

Originally posted by Zicsoft:
...And, like the south during Reconstruction, the Independent worlds would be even further behind than before the war. So no factories to make fancy sidearms and no cash to buy them from the North, I mean the Alliance core worlds.


But you underestimate the power of marketing. Many police departments in the USofA in the 1990s traded in almost new revolvers for Expensive Semi-automatic pistols. Pure marketing. Now we are stuck with Police officers who spray bullets and don't hit their intended target much. Nothing is a substitute for hitting the target. Increasing the number of bullets has tended to increase the number of misses.

Jeff
Who notes people will go to extreams to save thier lives and those of their families, even leave nice safe hovels in Poland, where the landowner took care of the serfs for strange lands full of danger and dirt. THANKS G'G'G' Grandpa!!

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 9:12 AM

REYVNDARKNIGHT


[q]zicsoft:
About that calligraphy: written Japanese uses a lot of Chinese characters. So it's often hard to distinguish writing in the two languages. Here's an interesting page on the subject:

No? Really?!? Ya don't say!

Sorry, couldn't resist the sarcasm. As I am an anime fan, I am quite familiar with the influence of the Chinese written (hiragana?) language on Japanese written language. I was just wondering if anyone recognized it as Mandarin or Japanese. After pausing my copy of Bushwacked and comparing the characters to the written Japanese characters in my Japanese language text book, I have reached the conclusion that those characters are Mandarin. I could be wrong, but I think it is Mandarin.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 9:47 AM

JASONZZZ


Really, another anime fan? I can hardly contain myself.

Quote:

Originally posted by ReyvnDarKnight:
[q]zicsoft:
About that calligraphy: written Japanese uses a lot of Chinese characters. So it's often hard to distinguish writing in the two languages. Here's an interesting page on the subject:

No? Really?!? Ya don't say!

Sorry, couldn't resist the sarcasm. As I am an anime fan, I am quite familiar with the influence of the Chinese written (hiragana?)


It's Kanji. Kanji. Kanji.

The japanese has 3 writing "systems". Hiragana, Katagana, and Kanji. Hiragana are used for native japanese words. Katagana are used more for romanizing ("spell") the sounds for the words that are foreign to Japanese, and Kanji are used to describe ideas. Kanji are the "chinese" characters. However, all 3 systems are usually interspersed in literary and printed material. Thus, if you are reading a Japanese newspaper, you would have to be verse in all 3.

Quote:

Originally posted by ReyvnDarKnight:

language on Japanese written language. I was just wondering if anyone recognized it as Mandarin or Japanese. After pausing my copy of Bushwacked and comparing the characters to the written Japanese characters in my Japanese language text book, I have reached the conclusion that those characters are Mandarin. I could be wrong, but I think it is Mandarin.



I don't know if you are refering to Mandarin the language, Mandarin the race/subrace/ethinicity of people, or Mandarin as in Orange. What you said doesn't make much sense here.

I don't think you can accurate pick out "Mandarin" characters. The chinese writing system is indistinguishable from one dialect to another. Although, when the communist took over and during the cultural revolution, there was quite an effort and many different ways were attempted to "overhaul" the language. Thus, simplified script was born. Most mainland chinese folks write in simplified script, and taiwanese and other overseas chinese use the "fullbody" or full script.


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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 10:02 AM

REYVNDARKNIGHT


[q]Jasonzzz:
Really, another anime fan? I can hardly contain myself.[/q]

Ahhhh, sarcasm gotta love it

[q]Jasonzzz:
I don't know if you are refering to Mandarin the language, Mandarin the race/subrace/ethinicity of people, or Mandarin as in Orange. What you said doesn't make much sense here. [/q]

As we were talking about Mandarin the language, I presumed that Mandarin took a different written form than, oh say let's say, Cantonese. Next time I'll try to be more specific for ya since ya couldn't keep up with the topic of discussion.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 10:21 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


As someone who lives in a place where Chinese, Japanese, and Korean are used quite extensively by the local population, let me just clarify this matter a bit as there seems to be some confusion here.

What you see in Firefly is written Chinese. In Japan, the Chinese characters are known as Kanji.

There are currently two versions of written Chinese. One is the Simplified version, which is used in China. The other is the Traditional version, which is used in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and elsewhere.

Some years back, the Chinese government (The People's Republic of China) felt that Traditional Chinese was too difficult for its populace to learn, especially in the rural regions, so they simplified it in an effort to educate its citizens and increase literacy rate (can't really diseminate propaganda if the people can't read).

Meanwhile, Traditional Chinese was still being taught outside of China in places like Taiwan, Hong Kong, and the United States.

The Chinese writing system is a logographic system. Meaning, there is no relationship between what is written and what is spoken. The English alphabet, on the other hand, is a phonetic system.

Japanese and Korean incorporates Traditional Chinese in their writing, especially in historic documents and older literature. This was because of the Chinese influence in their histories.

There are three writing systems in Japan. Hiragana (for Japanese words), Katagana (for foreign words), and Kanji (for Chinese words). Hiragana and Katagana are phonetic based.

There are two writing systems in Korea. Hanja (for Chinese characters) and Hangul (a relatively young and amazing phonetic writing system for Korean).

What you hear in Firefly is Mandarin, which is the common tongue of China and Taiwan. Because of China's size, there are many Chinese dialects. The most popular being Cantonese, which is spoken in Hong Kong, the United States, Britan, and Canada. Cantonese is a very colorful and colloquial language. It's the language of Jacky Chan, Chow Yun Fat, Sammo Hung, Jet Li, etc..

As someone pointed out on one of the other threads, it would be near impossible for the actors to speak Cantonese properly. Too bad, because it would certainly make the swearing a lot more interesting.

So, to sum up this little language lesson. What you see on Firefly is written Chinese. What you hear is Mandarin. One does not read or write Mandarin. On its most basic level, one does not speak Chinese. Instead, one speaks either Mandarin or one of the many Chinese dialects.

So, did I cause even more confusion?

Well, one last comment. The Chinese don't refer to Mandarin as "Mandarin". It's known as "Putonghua", which literally means the "Common Language".

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 10:32 AM

JASONZZZ


Quote:

Originally posted by ReyvnDarKnight:
[q]Jasonzzz:
Really, another anime fan? I can hardly contain myself.[/q]

Ahhhh, sarcasm gotta love it

[q]Jasonzzz:
I don't know if you are refering to Mandarin the language, Mandarin the race/subrace/ethinicity of people, or Mandarin as in Orange. What you said doesn't make much sense here. [/q]

As we were talking about Mandarin the language, I presumed that Mandarin took a different written form than, oh say let's say, Cantonese. Next time I'll try to be more specific for ya since ya couldn't keep up with the topic of discussion.



Ah, in that case, then we will get off the Orange then.

Cantonese is a funny beast all on it's own. Many/Most of other dialects in Chinese use slightly different mannerisms, but the written language, both in literary form and in strict plain everyday form are all the same. In other words, it's all Chinese. The only real difference is in how it sounds when the ideograms are read aloud (think Boston accent, Texas drawl, the southern twank, and the California whine) as well as different colloquilisms (probably same examples as above applies, but really think in terms of what the British folks name their everyday items, and what you Americans call the "trunk", for example).

Now back to Cantonese, Cantonese is really a spoken dialect. Many of the words that are said and used have no equivalent "word" that can be written. So there is a divergence in what is spoken in Cantonese and how a newspaper is read when it is read aloud. The newspaper will still make sense, it's just that people will know right away you are reading from the paper.

Those "spoken" words in Cantonese are 'writable', they are often expressed directly in comics, for example. (When a cantonese writes something down on paper, it's usually in "Chinese" with very few "Cantonese" words/sounds, if any at all...) But the Cantonese "words" that are written would be virtually indistinguishable from anyother Chinese ideogram. The only difference being that it would be full of "sounds" only used and understable by a Cantonese speaking person.


So, no, there is no separate distinguishable written language per dialect. It's all Chinese.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 10:38 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Those "spoken" words in Cantonese are 'writable', they are often expressed directly in comics, for example. (When a cantonese writes something down on paper, it's usually in "Chinese" with very few "Cantonese" words/sounds, if any at all...) But the Cantonese "words" that are written would be virtually indistinguishable from anyother Chinese ideogram. The only difference being that it would be full of "sounds" only used and understable by a Cantonese speaking person.



I remember seeing a Hong Kong newspaper once and saw the letter "D" scattered throughout the entire paper. It took me a while to catch on to what was going on. Kinda funny, really. I guess it was the easiest way to write "D".

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 4:35 PM

DELSIE


Quote:

Originally posted by ReyvnDarKnight:


To be honest, I hope Whedon changes his mind about that element of the series. As I said before, I like the element of western motif. But a sci-fi series without an alien or extra-terrestrial sub-plot and contiual western motif could limit the potential of the series as well as quickly wear thin the interest of some sci-fi fans.



I know that the discussion has moved on from this, but I just have to respond, so...

I like having aliens in sci fi, but in some cases (and in many more recent shows, IMO) I feel that the aliens actually take away from the characters and plot developement. Sometimes people get a little too carried away by the latex in the show. Besides, there is other sci fi material that excludes aliens and still manage to pull it off.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing a show with all humans. There is a possiblity of it getting boring, of course. However, from what I've seen so far, the writers have left themselves a lot of maneuvering room. As long as the show isn't written into a corner, I think it will remain interesting, with or without aliens.

(Just a quick little side note: This is my first post here so I just wanted to make sure that I said 'Hi' to everyone and give you all fair warning of a newbie.)

~ Delsie

"Efficiency is intelligent laziness." - David Dunham

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 7:04 PM

JASONZZZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Haken:
As someone who lives in a place where Chinese, Japanese, and Korean are used quite extensively by the local population, let me just clarify this matter a bit as there seems to be some confusion here.

...

Well, one last comment. The Chinese don't refer to Mandarin as "Mandarin". It's known as "Putonghua", which literally means the "Common Language".



Ah, thanks Haken... your explanation is just more succinct and better thought out than mine... All of the literary writing does pay off.

hehehe... didn't help that I was reading this and /. and trying to hide from the boss...

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 7:02 AM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by delsie:

I like having aliens in sci fi, but in some cases (and in many more recent shows, IMO) I feel that the aliens actually take away from the characters and plot developement. Sometimes people get a little too carried away by the latex in the show. Besides, there is other sci fi material that excludes aliens and still manage to pull it off.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing a show with all humans. There is a possiblity of it getting boring, of course. However, from what I've seen so far, the writers have left themselves a lot of maneuvering room. As long as the show isn't written into a corner, I think it will remain interesting, with or without aliens.

(Just a quick little side note: This is my first post here so I just wanted to make sure that I said 'Hi' to everyone and give you all fair warning of a newbie.)


You're doing fine! Welcome to the party.



JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Monday, October 7, 2002 5:53 AM

LOONYTOON


zicsoft, the confederates so called fondness for slavery is made up. Somewhere less than %5 of southerners owned slaves, and the emancipation proclamation originally only freed southern slaves, not northern ones. Lincoln did not wan`t to piss off his northern supporters that owned slaves. Way off topic, this stuff just bugs me.

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Monday, October 7, 2002 9:11 AM

ZICSOFT


Quote:

Originally posted by loonytoon:
zicsoft, the confederates so called fondness for slavery is made up. Somewhere less than %5 of southerners owned slaves, and the emancipation proclamation originally only freed southern slaves, not northern ones. Lincoln did not wan`t to piss off his northern supporters that owned slaves. Way off topic, this stuff just bugs me.

I'm well aware that there was more to the CSA than a defense of slavery. I've even posted rants on this board on the topic. But you can't get around the fact the slavery issue was the basis of most north-south quarrels, and that the election of an Abolitionist president was the proximate cause of the war. Maybe most southerners thought in terms of "states rights" rather than their individual "right" to own slaves -- but it comes to the same thing.

Put it another way: southerners were frantic to maintain the subordinate status of blacks. Slavery was the most obvious way to do it, but when slavery was banned, they managed to find other means. Hypocritical of the north to meddle, of course -- northern blacks were not treated fairly either, and even banned from whole states. But since when is consistency a part of politics?

There's one little ironic detail even Confederacy apologists often overlook. If the CSA had somehow managed to win the war, the most influential person in that new nation would have been Robert E. Lee. Who did not own slaves. Who was the scion of a family that considered slavery immoral. It's probably an oversimplification to call the Lees "abolitionist", but General Lee would have certainly used his post-war stature to try to get slavery banned. Interesting to speculate what might have come of that.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Wednesday, September 27, 2017 11:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Introduction of Reavers.
And the first inkling of what River's capabilities are.

Reavers and River.

With this second show aired, while Maybe and Simon are posturing about which is more heroic, Kaylee leaves them in the dust.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:49 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I forgot to mention that BW had the highest viewership rating of any episode.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Also, when I watched BW on my DVD Disc One, I recalled that Firefly was the reason I had to buy a DVD Player, and a widescreen flatscreen to watch it on.

Just to see a show I'd only seen 2 1/2 episodes of.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:41 PM

MOOSE


Quote:

Originally posted by misterelbert:

Would anyone be surprised if the Reavers were more work of the Allience Blue Hands gone horribly wrong?



Well, he called it.

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