REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is the military still under civilian control?

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Thursday, August 10, 2023 11:56
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1958
PAGE 1 of 1

Sunday, September 19, 2021 4:18 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



When Trump ordered US troops to leave Syria, infamously, a significant number of troops didn't. I've never seen a real investigation into that. But those troops didn't just decide to stay of their own accord, as if the military was some vast democracy. Someone in the military didn't carry out their lawful orders.

Now we find out that General Milley looks to have been engaged in foreign policy with China.

Quote:

The Deeper Problem Behind General Milley’s ‘Secret Phone Calls’
Sept. 18, 2021

By Kori Schake
Ms. Schake, a foreign policy expert who worked for the National Security Council and the State Department during George W. Bush’s administration, is the director of foreign and defense policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute.

A new book reports that Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, improperly restricted the president of the United States’ ability to use military force and committed to warning China, an American adversary, of any impending U.S. military action against it. If the book, “Peril,” by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, accurately recounts General Milley’s behavior, his actions could be an egregious series of violations of the norms that govern civil-military relations in the United States.

The context surrounding General Milley’s actions is unclear and may be exculpating. For example, while The Washington Post’s description of “a pair of secret phone calls” suggests furtive behavior, Jennifer Griffin, a Fox News correspondent, reports that there were 15 people on the calls, including State Department representatives. It’s possible the calls were not secret from his civilian superiors, but carried that classification because any conversation with a foreign counterpart would. And the authors of “Peril” are unlikely to know whether the Chinese general “took the chairman at his word,” although they assert it.

There are also other potential explanations for General Milley’s actions less salacious than the Woodward and Costa telling accounts for. But the problem runs deeper than the specifics of General Milley’s actions and signals trouble for the relationship between our military and the civilians it is intended to serve.

A phone call between General Milley and Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, was reported several months ago as General Milley explaining to the person second in the line of succession to the presidency the legal procedures for the president to initiate nuclear war, something valuable to reaffirm.

Though the president is commander in chief, Congress also provides civilian control of the military and requires every two-star general and above to commit to inform it of concerns they have about executive branch actions. So General Milley discussing the president’s soundness with the speaker of the House, while unseemly, could be understood as fulfilling his constitutional responsibilities.

It is also true that the U.S.-China military relationship is not well established, so it would be sensible to minimize miscalculation by the Chinese military, which probably poorly understands the American political process, in the confusion following the events of Jan. 6.

Quote:

Yet
"Yet" is one of those "yes, but ..." phrases which mean "no".
Quote:

General Milley’s actions apparently came as a surprise to at least some Trump administration national security officials. Whether that’s indicative of a clandestine move by the chairman or simply the routine dysfunction of an administration that wasn’t well managed is difficult to assess. We may never find out the full story: It’s unlikely that General Milley or other military leaders would publicly rebut the account, since that would draw them further into the glare of civilian politics.

But even if the Woodward and Costa account sensationalizes General Milley’s actions, his choices are problematic for civil-military relations. Account after account of the Trump administration is rife with General Milley’s friends and colleagues describing his conversations and ascribing the noblest of motives to him. Either General Milley has the most indiscreet circle of acquaintances in Washington or he’s authorizing it to reshape his image.

One can sympathize with the general’s frustration of having as his legacy the image of him striding through Lafayette Square in combat fatigues alongside a president who is threatening to use the military against American citizens and still think it’s unbecoming for the president’s senior military adviser to be so actively working to cast himself as the savior of the Republic.

Nor is the problem just optics. As Carrie Lee rightly assesses in The Washington Post, General Milley talking up his role both damages the trust civilians have in the military and encourages further politicization of the military itself. Presidents believing the military is working against them or is incapable of maintaining confidentiality will discredit the military’s advice. And future military leaders with less noble motives will be less confined by the civil-military norms that General Milley’s choices are weakening.

In 1974, Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger instructed military leaders to check with him or Secretary of State Henry Kissinger before executing a nuclear launch order from President Nixon. The Costa and Woodward book compares General Milley’s actions to that.

When Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger interpolated himself between Nixon's nuclear codes and the military, he was replacing one civilian and elected figure with another one. General Milley otoh was usurping civilian control for military control.
Quote:

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is not in the chain of command, but in General Milley’s case, most of the civilian control in the Pentagon was at that point unconfirmed — and probably unconfirmable — by Congress.

Some argue that military leaders interposing themselves between the president and a politically motivated war is the least bad choice. Even in the extreme circumstances of a wildly erratic president attempting to use the military to prevent the succession of power, it’s dangerous to have military leaders subvert civilian control of the military in the way a chairman of the Joint Chiefs “pulling a Schlesinger” implies. An unsound president is a danger to democracy, but a military that considers itself the arbiter of elected leaders’ lawful authorities is also a danger to democracy.

America’s uniformed leaders did an outstanding job ensuring that our military kept out of politics during and after a contested election. They deserve enormous credit for that professionalism and service to the nation. They’d deserve even more credit if they’d stop publicizing it.






NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:32 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Is the military still under civilian control?



Surely, you jest.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If you read further, Milley and Pelosi were colluding on this.

Also, according to Bob woodward's book, Milley downplayed the nationwide riots to Trump as "penny packet" so Trump wouldn't call in the troops. You can see collusion between Pelosi and Milley on this, too, as Pelosi "takes a knee" and sides with the rioters. Pelosi has been providing political cover for Milley's insubordination all along. THE PRESS provided disinformation cover.

Quote:

Milley warned Trump off violence against ‘penny packet’ George Floyd protesters, book claims

Gino Spocchia
Fri, September 17, 2021,

The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff [Milley] told Donald Trump that demonstrations over the death of George Floyd were "penny packet protests" and that those taking part were “not burning” America down,

a new book claims.
CNN: "Fiery but mostly peaceful ..." in front of a building burning to the ground. At first I thought it was The Onion.

Quote:

According to an upcoming book by Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, Mark Milley sought to assure Mr Trump that Black Lives Matter demonstrators were not dangerous, and were not “burning America down”.

The conversation, which according to Fox News occurred in May 2020, was an apparent bid to ward Mr Trump off military action towards demonstrators after Floyd’s murder by police on 25 May in Minneapolis.

Rioting occurred in a number of US cities following Floyd’s death, causing Mr Trump to write on Twitter that "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" — in remarks that were condemned as an apparent incitement to violence.

“They used spray paint, Mr President, that’s not an insurrection," Gen Milley reportedly said of the demonstrators, who first assembled in Minneapolis. “They are not burning [America] down”.


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/milley-warned-trump-off-violence-1
41238543.html


Of course, mainstream coverage fails to mention that Milley told Trump that the protests only involved two cities, and also fails to mention the 19 dead people, hundreds of injuries to the police; use of lasers, fireworks and arson in an attemtp to injure or kill polie; and $2 billion in damage.

The articles ALSO fail to compare the nationwide, ANTI-POLICE violent BLM riots ("not an insurrection") that lasted months and months to the Jan 6 event, which idiots and disninformationalists have labeled an "insurrection" altho it didn't rise in violence anywhere near the BLM ("not an insurrection") riots.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 11:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If you read further, Milley and Pelosi were colluding on crafting foreign policy on China outside of Trump's direction, since she came out the day after he called and announced that there was "no danger'. CIA Haspell provided the disinformational context that Trump or his supporters were planning a "rightwing coup" - disinformation dutifuly amplified by the press.



Also, according to Bob woodward's book, Milley downplayed the nationwide riots to Trump as "penny packet" so Trump wouldn't call in the troops. You can see collusion between Pelosi and Milley on this, too, as Pelosi "takes a knee" and sides with the rioters. Pelosi has been providing political cover for Milley's insubordination all along. THE PRESS provided disinformation cover.

Quote:

Milley warned Trump off violence against ‘penny packet’ George Floyd protesters, book claims

Gino Spocchia
Fri, September 17, 2021,

The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff [Milley] told Donald Trump that demonstrations over the death of George Floyd were "penny packet protests" and that those taking part were “not burning” America down, a new book claims.

CNN: "Fiery but mostly peaceful ..." in front of a building burning to the ground. At first I thought it was The Onion.

Quote:

According to an upcoming book by Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, Mark Milley sought to assure Mr Trump that Black Lives Matter demonstrators were not dangerous, and were not “burning America down”.

The conversation, which according to Fox News occurred in May 2020, was an apparent bid to ward Mr Trump off military action towards demonstrators after Floyd’s murder by police on 25 May in Minneapolis.

Rioting occurred in a number of US cities following Floyd’s death, causing Mr Trump to write on Twitter that "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" — in remarks that were condemned as an apparent incitement to violence.

“They used spray paint, Mr President, that’s not an insurrection," Gen Milley reportedly said of the demonstrators, who first assembled in Minneapolis. “They are not burning [America] down”.



https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/milley-warned-trump-off-violence-1
41238543.html


Of course, mainstream coverage fails to mention that Milley told Trump that the protests only involved two cities, and also fails to mention the 19 dead people; hundreds of injuries to the police; use of lasers, fireworks and arson in an attempt to injure or kill police; and $2 billion in damage.

The articles ALSO fail to compare the nationwide, ANTI-POLICE violent BLM riots ("not an insurrection") that lasted months and months to the Jan 6 event, which idiots and disninformationalists have labeled an "insurrection" altho it didn't rise in violence anywhere near the BLM ("not an insurrection") riots.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 11:12 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Sixty years ago, President Eisenhower knew he wasn't in control of the Pentagon. He punted the problem to "an alert and knowledgeable citizenry":

"We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." -- https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/eisenhower001.asp

Everybody knows that decisions on the battlefield are made solely by the military. But few civilians are aware that week by week and month by month the decisions are all made by the military. The only level where civilians can control the military is when the military budget is passed by Congress, if Congress for once changes what priorities will be funded. But Congress gives the Pentagon a yearly 3% raise, after accounting for inflation. No surprise that the Pentagon does whatever it wants, because it knows it will get a raise whether it wins a war or loses. Pentagon has nothing to fear from Congress because "support the troops" is a deep as the average Congressman thinks. Civilians have an even shallower understanding than Congress has about the military. "An alert and knowledgeable citizenry" does not describe America.

It’s Time to Rein in Inflated Military Budgets
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-rein-in-inflate
d-military-budgets
/
Quote:

By the Department of Defense’s own accounting, taxpayers spent $13.34 trillion on the U.S. military from 2000 through fiscal year 2019 in inflation-adjusted 2020 dollars. Add to that another $3.18 trillion for the Veterans Administration, and the yearly average comes to a whopping $826 billion.

No other country’s military outlays come close. In FY 2019, the Pentagon’s budget was nearly three times bigger than China’s defense spending and more than 10 times larger than Russia’s. All told, the U.S. military budget in 2019 exceeded the next 10 countries’ defense budgets combined and singlehandedly accounted for a hefty 38 percent of military spending worldwide.

For all we know, the only thing stopping the Pentagon from bombing the Capitol building while Congress is in session is Congress dependably gives the Pentagon yearly raises.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 11:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


In adddition, the STATE DEPARTMENT and it's conjoined twin THE CIA, is ALSO not under any President's control. In fact, Obama was doing State/CIA's bidding when he was in office, so they were controlling him.

Furthermore, the Pentagon and State/CIA don't necessarily see eye-to-eye on a number of policies, altho I think the CIA bought off some of the Pentagon to protect its drug-growing/ drug-running operation in Afghanistan.

And yes, I think the corruption goes that far.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I've been puzzling over who's pulling Biden's* strings. Looking back on the Obama administration, it was obvious the CIA/ (deep) State Dept were running him. Looking back on Trump, it looks like he and the military were in a marriage of convenience, until the military decided it wanted out.

But so far the Biden* administration has been a puzzle.

The military seems to be now dealing directly with Congress in terms of US military policy and the related propaganda we're being fed. Perhaps its looking for a big budget score from Pelosi.

The Deep State sure does seem to be running Blinken, in its eagerness to antagonize both Russia AND China at the same time. Way to go!

So, whose shoulders does the Afghanistan withdrawal fumble rest on?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

I've been puzzling over who's pulling Biden's* strings. Looking back on the Obama administration, it was obvious the CIA/ (deep) State Dept were running him. Looking back on Trump, it looks like he and the military were in a marriage of convenience, until the military decided it wanted out.

But so far the Biden* administration has been a puzzle.



China.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 1:12 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

So, whose shoulders does the Afghanistan withdrawal fumble rest on?

Former Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani and the Pentagon. The Pentagon should have forced Ghani to stay in the country for a few more weeks rather than hop in a helicopter with suitcases full of cash, which Ghani denies doing ha-ha, because the moment Ghani left, the Afghan Army collapsed. The collapse truly screwed up the Pentagon's withdrawal from Kabul. I guess the Pentagon didn't expect a former University of California Berkeley professor, Ghani, to be such a huge physical coward and a giant embezzler. But the Pentagon should have known Ghani's values were completely Americanized.

Weeks after fleeing Afghanistan, former President Ashraf Ghani issues ‘explanation’ statement to Afghan people — only in English
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/09/ashraf-ghani-afghanistan-ex-president-
issues-explanation-after-fleeing.html


Ghani has two children, a daughter, Mariam, a Brooklyn-based visual artist, and a son, Tarek, who was a policy advisor to 2020 presidential candidate, Pete Buttigieg. Both were born in the United States and carry U.S. citizenship and passports. It was no surprise their father quit and ran in fear at the moment he was most needed to be brave by the Pentagon and Afghanistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashraf_Ghani#Personal_life

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 3:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Nobody cares about what happened with the Afghan troops. Really. That had zero to do with the planning and execution of US withdrawal.

The US military had a deadline date to meet to withdraw. The withdrawal wasn't completed in good order by that date. AFAIK the US military is on the same calendar the rest of the country is on.

So ... who fumbled the withdrawal?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Biden* works for China, so I'm blaming it on Xi.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 20, 2021 7:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Nobody cares about what happened with the Afghan troops. Really. That had zero to do with the planning and execution of US withdrawal.

The US military had a deadline date to meet to withdraw. The withdrawal wasn't completed in good order by that date. AFAIK the US military is on the same calendar the rest of the country is on.

So ... who fumbled the withdrawal?

Did you notice the Pentagon was out of Afghanistan by the end of August? That was their deadline. But the Afghan Army was supposed to keep the Taliban away from the airport. When the Afghan President collapsed in fear, the Afghan Army collapsed at that same moment. With that collapse, who is keeping the Taliban from surrounding the Kabul airport? NOBODY! Who suddenly wants to leave Afghanistan with the US Military? EVERYBODY! And it is all thanks to that goofy former University of California Berkley professor who was playacting the role of President of Afghanistan.

To handle the Taliban surrounding the airport I guess the Pentagon could have started the Second Afghanistan War before the First was over, but that was too crazy even for the Pentagon to sell Congress, although Trump and GOP Congressmen were saying the Pentagon should try.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 20, 2021 8:20 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Don't give a shit about Afghanistan.

I'm concerned about the 100,000 sleeper cell agents that the Biden* Administration is spending $6.4 Billion relocating all around the US right now.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 20, 2021 8:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Don't give a shit about Afghanistan.

I'm concerned about the 100,000 sleeper cell agents that the Biden* Administration is spending $6.4 Billion relocating all around the US right now.

By sleeper cell agent you actually mean workers who will take jobs that even illegal Mexicans won't take. It is Trumptards, not Afghans, who will be future terrorists on killing sprees.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kyle+Rittenhouse
https://www.google.com/search?q=BLM+protester+killed+by+car

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 20, 2021 8:37 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Don't give a shit about Afghanistan.

I'm concerned about the 100,000 sleeper cell agents that the Biden* Administration is spending $6.4 Billion relocating all around the US right now.

By sleeper cell agent you actually mean workers who will take jobs that even illegal Mexicans won't take. It is Trumptards, not Afghans, who will be future terrorists on killing sprees.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kyle+Rittenhouse
https://www.google.com/search?q=BLM+protester+killed+by+car

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two



Keep your delusions to yourself.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 20, 2021 9:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Keep your delusions to yourself.

I hear the delusions of Trumptards all day long. One word description of their messy lives: "folly". More words: "Over-confident. Trumptards falsely believe in their own sagacity."

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 20, 2021 8:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You keep projecting all of your shortcomings and your failed life on others as long as you'd like buddy.

The only one who's miserable here is you.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 20, 2021 8:55 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You keep projecting all of your shortcomings and your failed life on others as long as you'd like buddy.

The only one who's miserable here is you.

I heard a simpler version of the argument you are making when I was a child: "I'm rubber. You're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." 6ix, none of following stick to me. You are the one addicted to nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, Trump, misogyny, racism, Islamophobia. Those are just the ones I remember. 6ix, your superiority complex is hanging out where anybody can see, but that's not so unusual; most of the Trumptards I know think of themselves as superior beings who are oppressed by evil Democrats, billionaires, bankers, government, immigrants, Hollywood, New York Times/Washington Post/CNN, employment taxes, their boss, their wife, their ungrateful children, globalization, international trade, the Chinese, etc. 6ix, you and your kind can't handle the outside world, so you stay as isolated as you can, working on lawn, garden, and house, avoiding strangers. Maybe what you need is a gun? For protection from evicted blacks in Chicago without SNAP food benefits coming to steal from you in Indiana (that is another of your fears you wrote about).

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 20, 2021 10:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Don't care. Didn't read.

You need to look in the mirror and work on yourself and stop worrying so much about everybody else buddy.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
I heard a simpler version of the argument you are making when I was a child: "I'm rubber. You're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." 6ix, none of following stick to me. You are the one addicted to nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, Trump, misogyny, racism, Islamophobia.

This from the guy who hates republicans, nationalists, and anyone who disagrees with him.
Quote:

Those are just the ones I remember. 6ix, your superiority complex is hanging out where anybody can see,
This from the guy who ROUTINELY claims that others are "inferior" in a multitude of ways?

SECOND, your lack of self-reflection and insight is a astonishing, and a lesson to anyone who reads your posts!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2021 3:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
I heard a simpler version of the argument you are making when I was a child: "I'm rubber. You're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." 6ix, none of following stick to me. You are the one addicted to nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, Trump, misogyny, racism, Islamophobia.

This from the guy who hates republicans, nationalists, and anyone who disagrees with him.
Quote:

Those are just the ones I remember. 6ix, your superiority complex is hanging out where anybody can see,
This from the guy who ROUTINELY claims that others are "inferior" in a multitude of ways?

SECOND, your lack of self-reflection and insight is a astonishing, and a lesson to anyone who reads your posts!

Did you see the Shrek cartoon? Shrek the ogre is sad because he can't find a fat, green mate to live in the swamp and love his ugly self. But then Shrek finds Princess Fiona, who changes back and forth between human and ogre. Signym and 6ix found Trump, their Princess Fiona. In this clip from Shrek, love conquers all. Trump and his Trumptards will live happily ever after:



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2021 3:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




US House approves $1 billion for Israel's Iron Dome defense system

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/23/politics/iron-dome-house-vote/index
.html



It looks like the House is working for the US military - and Israel - and not the US. Can one say the military is under civilian control when the civilians are doing what the military tells them to?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2021 4:39 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:


US House approves $1 billion for Israel's Iron Dome defense system

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/23/politics/iron-dome-house-vote/index
.html



It looks like the House is working for the US military - and Israel - and not the US. Can one say the military is under civilian control when the civilians are doing what the military tells them to?

The Iron Dome money will be spent in America because Raytheon builds it. You'll find that the Congressmen who voted for Iron Dome own Raytheon stock, so they kind of are paying themselves.
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/08/03/raytheon-and-rafael-to-bui
ld-iron-dome-in-us
/

The Members of Congress Who Profit From War. Here are the senators and representatives who own stock in Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, and other top defense contractors.
https://prospect.org/power/the-members-of-congress-who-profit-from-war/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2021 7:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

You'll find that the Congressmen who voted for Iron Dome own Raytheon stock, so they kind of are paying themselves.
https://prospect.org/power/the-members-of-congress-who-profit-from-war/

Quote:

The final vote was 420-9 with two present. Eight Democrats and one Republican voted against the bill.
Even your own link doesn't pretend that 420 members of the House have stock in Raytheon.

So, no, it's not about members of the House owning Raytheon stock.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2021 8:13 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

You'll find that the Congressmen who voted for Iron Dome own Raytheon stock, so they kind of are paying themselves.
https://prospect.org/power/the-members-of-congress-who-profit-from-war/

Quote:

The final vote was 420-9 with two present. Eight Democrats and one Republican voted against the bill.
Even your own link doesn't pretend that 420 members of the House have stock in Raytheon.

So, no, it's not about members of the House owning Raytheon stock.

Don't be stupid about these things, 1kiki. Most of Congress reads no more than a damn bill's name before they vote on it. Those empty-heads will take their cues on how to vote from committee chairmen.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2021 10:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


At least Second seems to be starting to just throw both sides of the government under the bus indiscriminately, as they should be.

Maybe I was wrong that he can never grow.

All it took was less than one year of the worst President* that America's ever had, huh?



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2021 7:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
At least Second seems to be starting to just throw both sides of the government under the bus indiscriminately, as they should be.

Maybe I was wrong that he can never grow.

All it took was less than one year of the worst President* that America's ever had, huh?

How does Congress make a decision? Same way office workers going to lunch do. There are dozens of restaurants within walking distance of the office. To get at least half of the workers to go to just one restaurant will require somebody to buy a round of drinks for everybody. In the case of Congress, somebody (could be Raytheon) has to buy a round of drinks for Congress to get at least half of them to vote for one particular bill or go to one restaurant. The decision making in Congress is that simple and stupid. But Raytheon is smart and knows how Congress works.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2021 7:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


No shit.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2021 8:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No shit.

I bet you didn't notice that decision making method used by Generals is just as stupid as by Congress. Why wouldn't it be stupid, despite the different subject matter of decisions made? Both Congress and the Generals are Americans:

At least several hundred thousand noncombatants have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the number is probably far higher. What happened in Kabul last month is a case study of all the pathologies of denial poured into one tragedy.

You might think that the Pentagon would be scrambling to find a general to take the fall for what can no longer be denied: that the U.S. military killed 10 innocent Afghans on August 29, called it a “righteous strike” against terrorists, and then had to admit the truth after journalists found out what happened. But don’t bet your bitcoin on it. The military is already saying that standard targeting protocols were followed for the Kabul attack; the problem was a faulty assumption or two, we meant well, next time we’ll do better.

The generals are in a corner. If they admit that the Kabul massacre is resignation-worthy — and in a healthy society, a massacre would be — they would have to admit that resignations should have occurred after the multitude of U.S. bombings and attacks in the past 20 years that killed large numbers of civilians doing nothing more sinister than attending a wedding party, seeking care at a hospital, or picking pine nuts. The Kabul bombing was an outlier only in the amount of attention it received; the killing of civilians has proven to be an extremely common event of the 9/11 wars.

The generals who have overseen two decades of carnage in Afghanistan and Iraq are inept at winning wars, but they possess one skill in abundance: a knack for avoiding career consequences for their too-many-to-count errors. The generals, as well as the politicians who approve ever-rising military budgets, have managed to lull the country to sleep with a euphemistic lullaby about what they want us to limply understand as an infrequent phenomenon of “collateral damage.”

Andrew Bacevich is a retired Army colonel who is one of the most prominent intellectual critics of American foreign and military policy. On the 20th anniversary of 9/11, he published a lightly noticed article proposing a wholesale clearance of the nation’s military leadership due to their losing streak. Its winking title was “A Modest Proposal: Fire All of the Post 9/11 Generals” — but Bacevich stressed that his piece was not a Swiftian satire.

“Allow me to suggest … a purge,” he wrote. “Oblige all active duty three- and four-star generals (and admirals) to retire forthwith. Rebuild the ranks of the senior officer corps with members of a younger generation willing and able to acknowledge the shortcomings of recent American military leadership at the top.”

More at https://web.archive.org/web/20210923215009/https://theintercept.com/20
21/09/23/military-generals-fire-kabul
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2021 8:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


No shit dude.

Hey. Maybe we have before us one of those rare instances where we found some common ground.




We're over there causing mayhem because it lines the pockets of the truly rich and powerful, meanwhile, we're letting invaders in our country and doing nothing about it.

The US Federal government has failed and should be dismantled.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2021 9:46 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No shit dude.

Hey. Maybe we have before us one of those rare instances where we found some common ground.

We're over there causing mayhem because it lines the pockets of the truly rich and powerful, meanwhile, we're letting invaders in our country and doing nothing about it.

The US Federal government has failed and should be dismantled.

That is an interesting theory that I have heard many times, but I think it is more subtle than that. Military spending is spread out to all 50 states by the Pentagon. It could be spent in only a few states, but then Congressmen from the states not receiving that wonderful spending wouldn't vote for it. Each state's Congressmen want their state to get a cut of that money, for bases and manufacturers in their state. To get money for their state, the Congressmen have to vote for money to the other 49 states.

The Pentagon is always asking for more money and Congress keeps raising Pentagon spending by about 3% more than inflation every year because the voters feel like they aren't safe unless Defense has a huge budget. This is why the Pentagon could spend $trillions for 70,000 H-bombs and A-bombs that can't be used anywhere on Earth. Other countries, except Russia which is another stupid bunch of people, are satisfied with only hundreds of A-bombs. Those bombs are expensive and most countries aren't stupid enough to waste too much money on those dangerous gadgets.
https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/costs-us-nuclear-weapons/

As with A-bombs, the Pentagon also wastes money on less dangerous gadgets. It can't win a nuclear war, but who cares? Not the military. The Pentagon can't seem to win an ordinary and conventional war because the Generals are the goofy in head, but who cares? Certainly not Congress. It is about the money spent in their states.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2021 10:02 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

the voters feel like they aren't safe unless Defense has a huge budget
Nah. It's about the president whipping up war-hunger to distract voters from failed domestic policies and create a sense of unity because it's the only thing the politicians haven't divided the country on.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2021 10:26 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

the voters feel like they aren't safe unless Defense has a huge budget
Nah. It's about the president whipping up war-hunger to distract voters from failed domestic policies and create a sense of unity because it's the only thing the politicians haven't divided the country on.

Did you notice that Congress hasn't issued a formal declaration of war since 1942? The decision to declare war is supposed to be made only by Congress, but it doesn't want its fingerprints on a failed war. So America gets one failure after another because it won't punish Generals or Presidents who fail to win wars. Congress just spends more defense money in the 50 states of Congressmen instead of reducing the Pentagon's budget. It all seems very stupid, but that assumes Congressmen really and truly care about anything more than how much money is going to their state. On the other hand, it is all very smart if war is only about money.

If the system was set up for Congressmen and Generals to lose their jobs within a few months of not attaining their war goals, America would win more wars, yet spend less money on defense. That new system would be very stressful for Congress and the Pentagon. Why bother to have clear goals if you will be punished for failure? If your voters will let you have no clear goals, that is GREAT AND GOOD! (Your average voter lacks clear goals, too.) Congress and Pentagon won't change their system because it works pretty good for them. Why fix a system that is not broken?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 29, 2021 5:48 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Joe Biden is the only recent president who has stood up to the Blob:

Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, testified Thursday that U.S. military officials did not give President Biden a “unanimous” recommendation to leave Afghanistan until 10 days after the fall of its capital city of Kabul.

This is the work of the infamous Blob, the foreign policy establishment made up of the Pentagon, Congress, think tanks, intelligence services, and private contractors. They always lobby for hawkish policies and their combined influence is all but impossible for a president to stand up to.

So it's notable that Biden did stand up to them. He knew what he wanted, and he stuck to his guns even in the face of intense contrary lobbying from both the domestic and foreign versions of the Blob. Any other president probably would have caved in—the generals are only asking for 2,500 troops!—but no matter how small, 2,500 is not zero. The difference keeps forever wars going forever.

https://jabberwocking.com/joe-biden-is-the-only-recent-president-who-h
as-stood-up-to-the-blob
/

Yesterday, Gen. Mark A. Milley said that if those 2,500 troops were attacked by the Taliban, 30,000 more troops would be needed to defend the 2,500. For some unknown reason, Gen. Milley forgot to emphasize that full scale war would be back on in Afghanistan! The news coverage didn't notice what Milley forgot to explain loudly and clearly. Milley didn't get his 2,500 troops so there is no way in the future to bump that number up to 32,500 troops. So sad for Milley and the simpleminded scheme the Pentagon had designed to trap Biden into more years in Afghanistan.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/09/biden-afghanistan-exit-tro
ops-milley.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 29, 2021 8:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Joe Biden is the only recent president who has stood up to the Blob:



He's just finishing what Trump started.

It is a complete shock that this happened though, and as I said before it will ultimately end up being the one thing Biden* can hang his hat on after his failed Presidency*.


Unless the 100,000 terrorists that he let in our country start blowing shit up, of course.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, November 16, 2022 7:38 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Eli Lilly another American pharmaceutical company?

Lockheed Martin loses billions in stock value amid fake Twitter accounts, tweets

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2022/11/15/fake-tweet-lockheed
-martin-stock-drop.html

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 10, 2023 11:56 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Perpetual wars and the 'greatest fighting force in human history'

https://www.alternet.org/perpetual-wars-greatest-fighting-force/

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Fri, March 29, 2024 00:45 - 56 posts
Elections; 2024
Fri, March 29, 2024 00:33 - 2075 posts
Long List of Celebrities that are Still Here
Fri, March 29, 2024 00:00 - 1 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Thu, March 28, 2024 23:51 - 10 posts
China
Thu, March 28, 2024 22:10 - 447 posts
Biden
Thu, March 28, 2024 22:03 - 853 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, March 28, 2024 17:24 - 3413 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, March 28, 2024 17:20 - 6155 posts
Well... He was no longer useful to the DNC or the Ukraine Money Laundering Scheme... So justice was served
Thu, March 28, 2024 12:44 - 1 posts
Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL