CINEMA

What Are Your Favorite DEEP Films Worth Re-watching?

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Friday, August 11, 2017 16:18
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3394
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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


We all have films that we enjoy watching again due to the thrills, adventure, familiarity, and so on.

But I'm interested in the films which we re-watch because there was so much in the film that it could not all be absorbed in one or two viewings.


Films that come to mind are Arrival (2016), Inception (2010), Edge of Tomorrow (2014).
Arrival: 73 posts; 2,200 views:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=36&tid=61000
Edge of Tomorrow: 216 posts; 19,636 views:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58037
Inception: 78 posts; 5,410 views:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=44423

I think Serenity would also be included - there was a lot of lines, quips, little bits that I am not sure I got in the first few viewings - even not including the first time in Cinmea when I had not seen Firefly. Sure, the draw may be watching River kick butt, but many of us might be guilty of dissecting the components of Mal/Inara, Kaylee/Simon, and such.

I think Hero (1992) with Geena Davis, Chevy Chase is also applicable for me. Although I have favorite scenes and lines, I was still seeing new things many viewings later.

I did see Highlander a dozen times in Cinema, and over 40 times on cable, before getting it on VHS and then DVD. But IIRC it was mostly the thrills and adventure, I don't know that I hadn't gleaned all of it after a few viewings - but I did still observe how the story was presented, marveling at the direction, continuity, etc.

Star Wars IV: A New Hope had quite a bit of story, backstory, interactions to absorb, despite having the attractions of adventure, thrills, SFX.

Star Trek had several installments worthy of re-watching, but IV: The Voyage Home had a lot in it worthy of absorbing, I thought. Minor Trivia: Which character had credits spread throughout the End Credits spectrum? Actor, Song Performer, Song Producer, Song Writer, and Film Executive Producer? I feel it was a memorable enuogh role because if I identified the character, you would likely immediately recall the character and scene if you saw he film once.

Bladerunner was so long ago for me that I cannot recall if it had too much to absorb at first viewing - but maybe it was the noir or distraction of future which made it overwhelming for me in one shot.

I think the original First Blood might be included here, and not just because Bruce Greenwood was in it. Not the cerebral bits that were missed in some of the other entries listed here, but it was a new genre borne from this film, and some things were not absorbed the first few times.

The Matrix. Possibly also the Reloaded and Revolution.

I think The Fifth Element was also in this class.

Despite all of the adventure, thrills, SFX, I still think Galaxy Quest needed more than a few viewings to get it all.

I thought The Sixth Sense and perhaps Signs also fit in this group.

I was wondering if Total Recall was in this group, but I don't recall that it was. But Terminator does seem to be - mostly to figure out all of the paradox.

And Ex-Machina? Not sure.


So, what films are your favorites because of, or despite, the need to watch it several times to soak in all that the film offered?

Solid nominees:
Arrival (2016)
Edge of Tomorrow (2014)
Inception (2009)
Serenity (2005)
Matrix (1999)
The Sixth Sense (1999)
Cloud Atlas (2012)


Possibles:
Galaxy Quest (1999)
The Fifth Element (1997)
Signs (2002)
Blade Runner (1982)
Hero (1992)
First Blood (1982)
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986)
Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope (1977)
Terminator (1984)
Ex Machina (2014)
The Dark Knight (2008)
Donnie Darko (2001)
Blue Velvet (1986)
Ink (2009)
12 Monkeys (1996)
Pay it Forward (2000)
The Green Mile (1999)
eXistenZ


I can add other suggestions to this as they are posted/posited.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:51 PM

MOOSE


Jacquiline Bissett...worth watching more than once.


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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
Jacquiline Bissett...worth watching more than once.



Yes, THE DEEP was worth watching more than once for her spectacular display, but did you see her nekkid in G-rated Airport (1970)?
But I think I got the gist of the story in the first viewing, it was laid out in fairly linear form.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2017 9:49 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Ink
Donnie Darko
Mullund Drive

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 6:31 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hey JSF,

I'm going to add to your "solid" list:

The Matrix
Cloud Atlas
The Dark Knight
The Sixth Sense


SGG

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 3:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF,

I'm going to add to your "solid" list:

The Matrix
Cloud Atlas
The Dark Knight
The Sixth Sense

SGG


Although I personally disagree with Cloud Atlas, I know some people have found it intriguing through viewings, so I'll add it.

Dark Knight? Was there some plot twists or hidden meanings which needed re-watching to figure out? I don't recall that.

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 3:08 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I was also thinking about Mulholland Falls (1996). I'm not sure how many times I saw it before I felt I had all of the details. And what a cast, making it enjoyable to watch. I think that was the briefest screentime I had ever seen for Ed Lauter. And Bruce Dern as LA Police Chief!!

Which made me consider To Live And Die In L.A.
And then Platoon. And Saving Private Ryan, although I'm thinking only 2 or 3 viewings got me all of it.

And Color of Night. Although entranced by Jane March, I had wondered what parts of the story or foreshadowing I had missed.

OK, Conspiracy Theory.

I'm not sure about Memento.
But Pulp Fiction - maybe. I don't recall how many times I saw it before I thought I'd absorbed all the details.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Ink
Donnie Darko
Mullund Drive


Did you mean Mulholland Drive?


Ink?
Did you mean this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1071804/

Or this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3575854/

Or this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5615848/

Or something else?

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Wednesday, April 19, 2017 3:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


double

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Friday, April 21, 2017 11:46 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Dude, TDK had the whole duality thing going on between the Joker and Batman. You know, there's a thin line between good and evil, two sides of the same coin. It was both obvious and subtle, Chris Nolan presented a very good case for the very slight difference between the Joker and Batman.

It almost felt like a flick of the switch would render the Batman as a crime lord gone wrong, very wrong. I'll give you a hint: remember the scene where the Joker is at Bruce's party for Matt Harvey, and he begins to tell the tale of how he got his scars....he talks about his father and how he treated the Joker before cutting him.

Bruce's dad was instrumental in how he became the Batman. I know, it's stretch, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF,

I'm going to add to your "solid" list:

The Matrix
Cloud Atlas
The Dark Knight
The Sixth Sense

SGG


Although I personally disagree with Cloud Atlas, I know some people have found it intriguing through viewings, so I'll add it.

Dark Knight? Was there some plot twists or hidden meanings which needed re-watching to figure out? I don't recall that.


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Friday, April 21, 2017 11:49 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Dude, I agree with you. That classic picture of her in The Deep (her in scuba gear and a T-shirt and that's it).

Hubba, Hubba!




SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
Jacquiline Bissett...worth watching more than once.



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Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:05 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Then there's the classic Sophia Loren (if this is sexist ladies please forgive my horniness)



From the movie "Boy on a Dolphin" with Alan Ladd (1957)


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
Jacquiline Bissett...worth watching more than once.



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Saturday, April 22, 2017 12:14 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


It's been a while since I've seen Mulholland Falls, but I would agree it needs several viewings; as does Memento and Pulp Fiction (because of their hidden meanings). But those others Saving Private Ryan or Platoon, although deep in the ugliness and utter futility of war; I would not consider for the "deep" part of re-watching. To me "deep" means hidden or profound meaning. Ok, maybe they should be considered under the "profound" label. Ok, you convinced me...."profound" it is.



Blue Velvet

SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I was also thinking about Mulholland Falls (1996). I'm not sure how many times I saw it before I felt I had all of the details. And what a cast, making it enjoyable to watch. I think that was the briefest screentime I had ever seen for Ed Lauter. And Bruce Dern as LA Police Chief!!

Which made me consider To Live And Die In L.A.
And then Platoon. And Saving Private Ryan, although I'm thinking only 2 or 3 viewings got me all of it.

And Color of Night. Although entranced by Jane March, I had wondered what parts of the story or foreshadowing I had missed.

OK, Conspiracy Theory.

I'm not sure about Memento.
But Pulp Fiction - maybe. I don't recall how many times I saw it before I thought I'd absorbed all the details.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Ink
Donnie Darko
Mullund Drive


Did you mean Mulholland Drive?


Ink?
Did you mean this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1071804/

Or this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3575854/

Or this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5615848/

Or something else?


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Saturday, April 22, 2017 4:38 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


You want Blue Velvet added?
That does remind me of The Hot Spot (Hopper Directed), Speed, and Twin Peaks. But I think the story kinks in Hot Spot and Speed were ironed out after a 2nd or 3rd viewing (but both have been re-watched many times by myself).


I will add The Dark Knight.

I should have elaborated - profound wasn't really what I was looking for, but it should work. Many of the films I have indicated had time travel (paradox), or the splicing of sequence, to try to look for the cause/effect relationships. Highlander had time sequence manipulation, using mostly flashbacks (at the time, that was a rarely used device, but became prevalent and easier for the viewer to follow after Highlander). Pulp Fiction, Memento, Terminator, and even Private Ryan had non-linear time sequence displayed. Mulholland Falls and Conspiracy Theory utilized flashbacks or memory revelations. Arrival, Edge of Tomorrow, and I think Inception are included here. And STIV, which was successful enough to spur some TV Series called Next Generation.

Hero was one which I desired to find all of the foreshadowing, all of the signs I missed about what was about to happen, would happen, the iinteracton - which might be largely a dissection of how the scenes were displayed, how the director cut or edited it. Also Ex-Machina, Blade Runner, Fifth Element, SWIV.

Total Recall, Sixth Sense, Matrix, Inception had various versions of reality to hash out, and connect or speculate about. Now I recall Oblivion as well.

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Saturday, April 22, 2017 11:36 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Did you mean Mulholland Drive?



Yes


Ink?
Did you mean this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1071804/

Or this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3575854/

Or this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5615848/

Or something else?



The first one. Might be my favorite movie of all time.





About The Sixth Sense... I missed that one for at least a decade. It was never ruined for me, although I knew all of the hype that surrounded it.

Man... was I disappointed when I realized that it was just a blatant rip off of another movie that should be on this list.

Jacob's Ladder:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099871/?ref_=nv_sr_2

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Thursday, April 27, 2017 8:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


12 Monkeys
I think the gist of it, and much of the supporting bits are laid out quite well for the casual viewer, but I kept finding more detail even after numerous viewings. In a way, there may be several layers of story in there.

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Friday, April 28, 2017 2:58 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I tend to agree with you regarding 12 Monkeys, although I haven't seen it in quite a while. But yeah, that's the gist of "Deep" films, that there are several layers to be uncovered that may slip by unnoticed at first viewing. The perfect most recent examples are The Dark Knight, Cloud Atlas and Arrival.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
12 Monkeys
I think the gist of it, and much of the supporting bits are laid out quite well for the casual viewer, but I kept finding more detail even after numerous viewings. In a way, there may be several layers of story in there.


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Friday, April 28, 2017 3:17 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quite frankly, to me sci-fi is perfect as a direct model for this category of film, the "Deep" film. Why? I'm glad that you asked; because sci-fi, as far as I consider it, is generally social commentary on any number of topics that are of general concern or belief.

For example, to me, the Matrix is about believing in yourself and not falling prey to "sheep mentality" - FREE YOUR MIND! Among other things (i.e. who controls you).

Arrival - about communication among humans, irrational behavior and suspicious thinking toward "aliens" or people of differing cultures. It speaks directly toward the reactionary right wingers who see all Muslims as hostile (Syrian refugees).
Use your weapon is really use your ability to communicate through language.

You get what I'm driving at, don't you? "Deep" films make you think and it usually
comes disguised as butt-kicking, or profound, filmmaking. Sometimes a little of both (The Matrix, Pulp Fiction).


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You want Blue Velvet added?
That does remind me of The Hot Spot (Hopper Directed), Speed, and Twin Peaks. But I think the story kinks in Hot Spot and Speed were ironed out after a 2nd or 3rd viewing (but both have been re-watched many times by myself).


I will add The Dark Knight.

I should have elaborated - profound wasn't really what I was looking for, but it should work. Many of the films I have indicated had time travel (paradox), or the splicing of sequence, to try to look for the cause/effect relationships. Highlander had time sequence manipulation, using mostly flashbacks (at the time, that was a rarely used device, but became prevalent and easier for the viewer to follow after Highlander). Pulp Fiction, Memento, Terminator, and even Private Ryan had non-linear time sequence displayed. Mulholland Falls and Conspiracy Theory utilized flashbacks or memory revelations. Arrival, Edge of Tomorrow, and I think Inception are included here. And STIV, which was successful enough to spur some TV Series called Next Generation.

Hero was one which I desired to find all of the foreshadowing, all of the signs I missed about what was about to happen, would happen, the iinteracton - which might be largely a dissection of how the scenes were displayed, how the director cut or edited it. Also Ex-Machina, Blade Runner, Fifth Element, SWIV.

Total Recall, Sixth Sense, Matrix, Inception had various versions of reality to hash out, and connect or speculate about. Now I recall Oblivion as well.


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Saturday, April 29, 2017 10:33 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Oh yeah. 12 Monkeys was a great one. That was my first date with one of my first girlfriends back in the day. She picked it. She had a huge crush on Brad Pitt. I've probably seen that movie about 5 more times over the years since then.

If you guys like that, you should watch the TV show if you haven't. It's really expanded on the idea even though it's strayed quite a bit from the movie roots.

I love spotting all the little nods to the original movie they've got, like the sweater....





Emily Hampshire plays at least a good a psycho as Brad Pitt was.

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Sunday, April 30, 2017 2:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Oh yeah. 12 Monkeys was a great one. That was my first date with one of my first girlfriends back in the day. She picked it. She had a huge crush on Brad Pitt. I've probably seen that movie about 5 more times over the years since then.

If you guys like that, you should watch the TV show if you haven't. It's really expanded on the idea even though it's strayed quite a bit from the movie roots.

I love spotting all the little nods to the original movie they've got, like the sweater....

Emily Hampshire plays at least a good a psycho as Brad Pitt was.


Maybe you saw a different film than me. Jeffrey wasn't a psycho. He was medicated. Are you one who confuses "bipolar" with something that is not drug-dependancy?


Anyhow, I didn't even know there was a TV show there.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2017 1:58 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Maybe you saw a different film than me. Jeffrey wasn't a psycho. He was medicated. Are you one who confuses "bipolar" with something that is not drug-dependancy?


Anyhow, I didn't even know there was a TV show there.



Obviously we saw the same film. I think you're just kind of being a dick. But sure... she is as good as being _____________ (whatever you'd like to call it here).

You should watch the show. It's really good.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2017 9:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Maybe you saw a different film than me. Jeffrey wasn't a psycho. He was medicated. Are you one who confuses "bipolar" with something that is not drug-dependancy?


Anyhow, I didn't even know there was a TV show there.



Obviously we saw the same film. I think you're just kind of being a dick. But sure... she is as good as being _____________ (whatever you'd like to call it here).

You should watch the show. It's really good.


Is there any chance of it being broadcast on a network?

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Saturday, May 13, 2017 12:59 AM

6STRINGJOKER


It airs on Syfy... Not sure if you would qualify that as a network. I don't really know that much about commercial TV since I cut the cord over a decade ago.

Two words.

FireStick.

Kodi.

You'll thank me later.

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Saturday, May 13, 2017 5:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
It airs on Syfy... Not sure if you would qualify that as a network. I don't really know that much about commercial TV since I cut the cord over a decade ago.

Two words.

FireStick.

Kodi.

You'll thank me later.


SyFy is not broadcast - it is paid for on cable or satellite.

Broadcast is what you get with an antenna.

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Saturday, May 13, 2017 11:19 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Yeah... I don't even own a TV new enough to get the HD signals and I never got any converter boxes. My parents laughed when they asked me if I wanted a DVD the other day and I said I don't even have a DVD player. They asked me if I was living in the stone age. I laughed right back and said that I've got a thumb stick that can instantly stream about 70,000 movies or TV shows with a few mouse clicks. I haven't seen a commercial outside of the Superbowl in about 10 years.

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Sunday, May 14, 2017 1:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Yeah... I don't even own a TV new enough to get the HD signals and I never got any converter boxes. My parents laughed when they asked me if I wanted a DVD the other day and I said I don't even have a DVD player. They asked me if I was living in the stone age. I laughed right back and said that I've got a thumb stick that can instantly stream about 70,000 movies or TV shows with a few mouse clicks. I haven't seen a commercial outside of the Superbowl in about 10 years.


FYI, but not to distract from your self-imposed isolation, if you were interested you could get some video device from after that conversion time, and it would have the digital tuners included. For a couple bucks, or up to $10 frequently St. Vincents, Goodwill, or others have used items like DVD players, other electronics items with TV tuning. And the quality will often exceed the generic converters of that time.

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Sunday, May 14, 2017 3:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Back to the topic, I think Pay it Forward and The Green Mile are possibilities. For me, they are due mostly because of their use of flashback, telepathy, and non-chronological scene sequence.

Checking now, I am surprised to find that Pay it Forward came out a few months after Momento, when I had thought it was first. In fact, The Green Mile was only 10 months before Pay it Forward.

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Sunday, May 14, 2017 3:29 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Do you need to have an antenna to get the HD signals still, or will the converters do that for you? Maybe I'll look into one or two of them if you don't need an antenna. I've got an old projection screen out on my 3 season room that hardly gets any use during the summer since my NAS drive died.


I've actually never seen Green Mile or Memento. I've always meant to.

Pay it Forward is one of the greats.

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Sunday, May 14, 2017 4:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Do you need to have an antenna to get the HD signals still, or will the converters do that for you? Maybe I'll look into one or two of them if you don't need an antenna. I've got an old projection screen out on my 3 season room that hardly gets any use during the summer since my NAS drive died.


I've actually never seen Green Mile or Memento. I've always meant to.

Pay it Forward is one of the greats.

Yes, some type of antenna is usually needed, based upon the signal strength. I also used to just connect wire and hang it on the wall, or under the curtains.
rabbit ears are also quite cheap at used places. Also there are cheap flat-square type antennas which work well. I used to also just plug into the cable in the wall, even though it wasn't connect to the cable company. The wire in the cable, which sometimes extends outside, would act as antenna fairly well.
Different stations and broadcast locations/directions will affect your reception.
Also, those DVDs are usually available for free borrowing at the Pubic Library.

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Sunday, May 14, 2017 10:17 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes, some type of antenna is usually needed, based upon the signal strength. I also used to just connect wire and hang it on the wall, or under the curtains.
rabbit ears are also quite cheap at used places. Also there are cheap flat-square type antennas which work well. I used to also just plug into the cable in the wall, even though it wasn't connect to the cable company. The wire in the cable, which sometimes extends outside, would act as antenna fairly well.
Different stations and broadcast locations/directions will affect your reception.
Also, those DVDs are usually available for free borrowing at the Pubic Library.



Yeah... I thought that some people were able to connect through the coaxial. Didn't know why that worked though. If I see a unit at the goodwill I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the info.

I could watch those movies on the Stick tonight if I wanted to. I'll have to make a mental note to remember to watch them.

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Monday, May 15, 2017 3:25 PM

MOOSE


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Dude, I agree with you. That classic picture of her in The Deep (her in scuba gear and a T-shirt and that's it).

Hubba, Hubba!




SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
Jacquiline Bissett...worth watching more than once.





IIRC, the director once said that t-shirt made him a lot if money.

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Monday, May 15, 2017 9:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes, some type of antenna is usually needed, based upon the signal strength. I also used to just connect wire and hang it on the wall, or under the curtains.
rabbit ears are also quite cheap at used places. Also there are cheap flat-square type antennas which work well. I used to also just plug into the cable in the wall, even though it wasn't connect to the cable company. The wire in the cable, which sometimes extends outside, would act as antenna fairly well.
Different stations and broadcast locations/directions will affect your reception.
Also, those DVDs are usually available for free borrowing at the Pubic Library.



Yeah... I thought that some people were able to connect through the coaxial. Didn't know why that worked though. If I see a unit at the goodwill I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the info.

I could watch those movies on the Stick tonight if I wanted to. I'll have to make a mental note to remember to watch them.


Or you could put a note on your stick - or in your stick. Not that that is perverted.

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Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:54 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Or you could put a note on your stick - or in your stick. Not that that is perverted.



Sounds painful.

Maybe somebody should start a thread about Great Films You Never Saw.

I know Memento and Green Mile are just the start of that list for me. I really don't keep up with new movies anymore at all. If it's not a Disney movie I saw with my niece or a Comic movie I saw with my brother I really don't like watching movies anymore. TV today is generally so much better.

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Thursday, May 18, 2017 6:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Maybe somebody should start a thread about Great Films You Never Saw.

I am unlikely to comment extensively on films I have not seen, or recommend them. Unlike movie critics, such as Leonard Maltin and Pauline Kael.

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 11:05 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Maybe somebody should start a thread about Great Films You Never Saw.

I am unlikely to comment extensively on films I have not seen, or recommend them. Unlike movie critics, such as Leonard Maltin and Pauline Kael.



Yeah... that wouldn't be the point of the thread lol...

I thought it would be cool to have a thread where you could post movies you've always meant to see because everybody else thinks they're great but for whatever reason you've never seen them, and then other people could say what they thought about them.

I thought of a few more myself....

All of the Pirates movies.
The Godfather movies.
The third Bale Batman movie.


The only one like that for me I ever got around to watching years later was The Sixth Sense and that was just a huge letdown for me. It was actually never ruined for me, but I knew what was going to happen because it was ripped off of Jacob's Ladder, which apparently nobody ever saw.


Strangely, the only movie with M Knight's name in the title that I actually liked was the one that was universally hated. The Village.

I was actually surprised when I found out that he made Devil once the credits were rolling. There's your twist ending! I think it's a good idea that he decided to take his name out of the titles of his films.

Not that either of those movies were great, but they were a lot better than most of his other flicks.

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Saturday, May 20, 2017 4:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Maybe somebody should start a thread about Great Films You Never Saw.

I am unlikely to comment extensively on films I have not seen, or recommend them. Unlike movie critics, such as Leonard Maltin and Pauline Kael.



Yeah... that wouldn't be the point of the thread lol...

I thought it would be cool to have a thread where you could post movies you've always meant to see because everybody else thinks they're great but for whatever reason you've never seen them, and then other people could say what they thought about them.

I thought of a few more myself....

All of the Pirates movies.
The Godfather movies.
The third Bale Batman movie.


The only one like that for me I ever got around to watching years later was The Sixth Sense and that was just a huge letdown for me. It was actually never ruined for me, but I knew what was going to happen because it was ripped off of Jacob's Ladder, which apparently nobody ever saw.

Strangely, the only movie with M Knight's name in the title that I actually liked was the one that was universally hated. The Village.

I didn't know The Village was hated. I really enjoyed it, but all of the thought-provoking parts were absorbed in a few viewings. I enjoyed all of his films from Sixth Sense until Airbender, and not much since then - have not seen Split yet. His credits do not show him directing Devil, only Producing.

I don't understand your contention of Sixth Sense ripping off Jacob's Ladder. Although I have seen Ladder at least once, I don't recall a similarity. Other than Robbins dragging it down, I normally enjoy the works of the rest of the cast.

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Monday, May 22, 2017 12:58 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I was just a kid when I saw Jacob's Ladder, so I didn't know anything of politics or celebrity leanings. I liked Robbins at the time because I loved Howard the Duck too. You should watch it again. Maybe I'm looking back on it with sentimentality that it doesn't deserve, but I thought it was a great movie years ago. There are quite a few differences between the two flicks, but the overall "twist" was essentially identical.



I think my favorite movie review I ever read was Ebert's review on The Village. This was my favorite part:

Quote:

Eventually the secret of Those, etc., is revealed. To call it an anticlimax would be an insult not only to climaxes but to prefixes. It's a crummy secret, about one step up the ladder of narrative originality from It Was All a Dream. It's so witless, in fact, that when we do discover the secret, we want to rewind the film so we don't know the secret anymore.

And then keep on rewinding, and rewinding, until we're back at the beginning, and can get up from our seats and walk backward out of the theater and go down the up escalator and watch the money spring from the cash register into our pockets.



Priceless...

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-village-2004

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Monday, May 22, 2017 8:43 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
You should watch it again. Maybe I'm looking back on it with sentimentality that it doesn't deserve, but I thought it was a great movie years ago. There are quite a few differences between the two flicks, but the overall "twist" was essentially identical.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no plans to treat you like a child.
I just forced myself to suffer through this Tim Robbins dreck again. This torture was made worse by the DVD not having subtitles available, so trying to decipher Robbins' mumbling the whole film was exasperating.
My recall of the film was another drug-addled foray into anti-Vietnam diatribe. But a few days ago when I checked, the synopsis on the DVD cover and also in imdb hide these facts, so I wondered if I had mistaken the film for another. And then at the end it does reveal that it is a pretend depiction of the hallucinogen drug BZ.
I will admit that during the past week, the TV has been showing Eric the Viking, and it was quite difficult to differentiate his performances in these two films. In fact, I cannot now recall any performance he has given that was not the same, other than Top Gun.
Most of the cast I have enjoyed in their other works, other than Costanza. This film also came out the same year as Navy Seals, which share many of the same group from Top Gun, the upcoming Terminator 2.
I am left to believe you did not actually watch The Sixth Sense. I could find no similarities. Nobody had addiction to wacky drugs. There were no hippies pretending to be soldiers. The whole film was not just a dream. You seemed to have completely missed some excellent scenes, and their meanings. How did Robbins help so many people he met and interacted with, like both the Willis and Osment characters?
If there was any rip-off involved, perhaps this dreck stole from Deer Hunter, Coming Home, or other lame wastes of time. I wish I could ask for my time back. I gotta watch Arrival or Edge of Tomorrow, Braveheart again to wash this rubbish from my mind.

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Tuesday, May 23, 2017 3:46 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Good one Brenda, that's one of my favorites. Have you ever seen "A Man Called Horse"?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
My top one is "Little Big Man".


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Tuesday, May 23, 2017 6:10 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
You should watch it again. Maybe I'm looking back on it with sentimentality that it doesn't deserve, but I thought it was a great movie years ago. There are quite a few differences between the two flicks, but the overall "twist" was essentially identical.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no plans to treat you like a child.
I just forced myself to suffer through this Tim Robbins dreck again. This torture was made worse by the DVD not having subtitles available, so trying to decipher Robbins' mumbling the whole film was exasperating.
My recall of the film was another drug-addled foray into anti-Vietnam diatribe. But a few days ago when I checked, the synopsis on the DVD cover and also in imdb hide these facts, so I wondered if I had mistaken the film for another. And then at the end it does reveal that it is a pretend depiction of the hallucinogen drug BZ.
I will admit that during the past week, the TV has been showing Eric the Viking, and it was quite difficult to differentiate his performances in these two films. In fact, I cannot now recall any performance he has given that was not the same, other than Top Gun.
Most of the cast I have enjoyed in their other works, other than Costanza. This film also came out the same year as Navy Seals, which share many of the same group from Top Gun, the upcoming Terminator 2.
I am left to believe you did not actually watch The Sixth Sense. I could find no similarities. Nobody had addiction to wacky drugs. There were no hippies pretending to be soldiers. The whole film was not just a dream. You seemed to have completely missed some excellent scenes, and their meanings. How did Robbins help so many people he met and interacted with, like both the Willis and Osment characters?
If there was any rip-off involved, perhaps this dreck stole from Deer Hunter, Coming Home, or other lame wastes of time. I wish I could ask for my time back. I gotta watch Arrival or Edge of Tomorrow, Braveheart again to wash this rubbish from my mind.



I think you were so focused on what you hated about the movie that you didn't recognize that the "Twist Ending" in The Sixth Sense was pretty much directly ripped off from the ending of Jacob's Ladder.

I never said it was a shot for shot remake and I did say that I might be giving it more credit than it deserves from the eyes of a kid who saw it many years ago.

Sorry you didn't like it. That's pretty much the same way I felt when I finally got around to watching Sixth Sense.

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Tuesday, May 23, 2017 7:08 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
You should watch it again.
, but the overall "twist" was essentially identical.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no plans to treat you like a child.



I am left to believe you did not actually watch The Sixth Sense. I could find no similarities. Nobody had addiction to wacky drugs. There were no hippies pretending to be soldiers. The whole film was not just a dream. You seemed to have completely missed some excellent scenes, and their meanings. How did Robbins help so many people he met and interacted with, like both the Willis and Osment characters?
If there was any rip-off involved, perhaps this dreck stole from Deer Hunter, Coming Home, or other lame wastes of time.


I think you were so focused on what you hated about the movie that you didn't recognize that the "Twist Ending" in The Sixth Sense was pretty much directly ripped off from the ending of Jacob's Ladder.


I still don't know what you are talking about.
One is a poignant reveal of a spirit who has not passed over, yet while unaware of his demise he continues to help those that he can, as he did in the secular world. He becomes aware of his latent mortality.
The other is the same lame "it was all a dream" hocum, with the excuse that it was all from drugs. No memory revealed, no spiritual awakening, no helping others, nothing actually happened during his dreams, nothing except the reveal that you just wasted 2 hours of your life.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:41 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I still don't know what you are talking about.
One is a poignant reveal of a spirit who has not passed over, yet while unaware of his demise he continues to help those that he can, as he did in the secular world. He becomes aware of his latent mortality.
The other is the same lame "it was all a dream" hocum, with the excuse that it was all from drugs. No memory revealed, no spiritual awakening, no helping others, nothing actually happened during his dreams, nothing except the reveal that you just wasted 2 hours of your life.



Well... again, I saw the movie when I was like 10 years old. Maybe the "it's all a dream" trope was new to me at the time.

I think what stuck with me was the "he's already dead" thing, that in both movies you didn't know until the very end. I think I was guilty of focusing on the perceived parallels throughout the movie to the point that I wasn't taking in all that you noticed about it. If it really is as good as you say it is, M Knight probably "borrowed" the premise of Jacob's Ladder and made it a better story with a higher production value. I'm not going to admit there weren't parallels though, because why would a movie I had seen as a kid stick with me over a decade later while watching The Sixth Sense. I already knew the ending well before it happened.

I do feel bad when somebody sees a movie that I recommend and hates it. If I knew you were actually going to see one of my recommendations I would have put Ink at the top of the list. I hope you do watch that one someday and don't let my bad recommendation of Jacob's Ladder put you off from it.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2017 8:47 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Another film that was shit all over when it came out is "Dance With Wolves".

The end of this film upsets me.



I saw that one in grade school at some point. We actually got a half-day to watch it in the gym with one of those ancient projection screen TVs that probably cost 10,000 bucks at the time. I remembered enjoying it very much. I haven't seen it since though so I don't remember much about it.


Maybe it is just more proof of my bad taste, but I always liked Kevin Kostner and never really understood the hate he got for most of his movies.

I'm just going to go ahead and shoot all credibility I have when it comes to movies and say that I even enjoyed Tin Cup, and Waterworld was a great movie (if you don't take it too seriously).

Best line in Waterworld? "Oh Thank God!"


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Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Another film that was shit all over when it came out is "Dance With Wolves".

The end of this film upsets me.

Which part? Why?
Did you want him to stay so the Army would hunt down and destroy the tribe?

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Wednesday, May 24, 2017 7:02 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I still don't know what you are talking about.
One is a poignant reveal of a spirit who has not passed over, yet while unaware of his demise he continues to help those that he can, as he did in the secular world. He becomes aware of his latent mortality.
The other is the same lame "it was all a dream" hocum, with the excuse that it was all from drugs. No memory revealed, no spiritual awakening, no helping others, nothing actually happened during his dreams, nothing except the reveal that you just wasted 2 hours of your life.



Well... again, I saw the movie when I was like 10 years old. Maybe the "it's all a dream" trope was new to me at the time.

I think what stuck with me was the "he's already dead" thing, that in both movies you didn't know until the very end. I think I was guilty of focusing on the perceived parallels throughout the movie to the point that I wasn't taking in all that you noticed about it. If it really is as good as you say it is, M Knight probably "borrowed" the premise of Jacob's Ladder and made it a better story with a higher production value. I'm not going to admit there weren't parallels though, because why would a movie I had seen as a kid stick with me over a decade later while watching The Sixth Sense. I already knew the ending well before it happened.

Sixth Sense had all of the clues in the body of the film, or they could be called foreshadowing. Nothing in Sixth Sense argued against the conclusion, there are no continuity conflicts.
In JL the character peruses 2 versions of his Honorable Discharge papers dated 8 July 1972. This has no continuity with the conclusion of the story.
Anybody paying attention to Sixth Sense would already know the ending before it was revealed in montage. Because this was the first of his films to be widely viewed (successful), many were not ready to pay attention to it, but after this one viewers could expect to pay attention while viewing his next films.
Quote:


I do feel bad when somebody sees a movie that I recommend and hates it.

Me too. But I cannot please everybody. Still, I do not want to have somebody miss out on a great film just because I held back too much.
Quote:

If I knew you were actually going to see one of my recommendations I would have put Ink at the top of the list. I hope you do watch that one someday and don't let my bad recommendation of Jacob's Ladder put you off from it.


Ink is on the list that I've compiled in the Opening Post.
I may have heard others list Jacob's Ladder, but the claimed duplication of storyline from Sixth Sense threw me.

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Wednesday, May 24, 2017 7:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I saw that one in grade school at some point. We actually got a half-day to watch it in the gym with one of those ancient projection screen TVs that probably cost 10,000 bucks at the time. I remembered enjoying it very much. I haven't seen it since though so I don't remember much about it.

Maybe you should watch it again. Look for his kids in it. I've enjoyed it dozens of times. There are documentaries about how it was made, why the financiers decided to not cancel the project, and reasons for some of the casting. There were some parts that I still didn't fully get until quite a few viewings - I might have had too much time between viewings.
Quote:


Maybe it is just more proof of my bad taste, but I always liked Kevin Kostner and never really understood the hate he got for most of his movies.

I thought Field of Dreams was above average, while others consider it much more highly. I thoroughly enjoyed Postman, Dances, Waterworld - actually feel these are his 3 best, displaying his vision. Perfect World and Mr Roberts just didn't seem to capture him the same way. Bodyguard was OK the first few times, but crackhead Whitney just becomes more annoying as the view counter climbs.
Quote:


I'm just going to go ahead and shoot all credibility I have when it comes to movies and say that I even enjoyed Tin Cup, and Waterworld was a great movie (if you don't take it too seriously).

Best line in Waterworld? "Oh Thank God!"

I disagree. Tina Majorino's "You're in trouble nowwwww"
Did you understand the name of the ship prior to the reveal, when it sank/capsized?
Actually, one of my favorite Hopper films.

Also in Postman, see how many of his kids you find. I really enjoyed the rest of the cast, as well. In fact, include Waterworld, Dances, Dreams, and Bodyguard with cast enjoyment.
I suppose Postman may have come too soon after Braveheart, but I didn't consider that to be a negative. It was released almost 2 months before Dangerous Beauty (with a lot of production flowing from Braveheart).

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Thursday, May 25, 2017 7:02 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Another film that was shit all over when it came out is "Dance With Wolves".

The end of this film upsets me.

Which part? Why?
Did you want him to stay so the Army would hunt down and destroy the tribe?



The very last few scenes when Costner's character and his wife were riding off separate from the Dakota. Those scenes showed what would become the end of an entire culture JSF. The Horse culture that was part of my ancestors and the Cheyenne and the Dakota and the Crow was coming to an end. That band would end up on a reservation. Way of life GONE.

Also at the end of the film, he wasn't in the army anymore. He had become Indian.


OK. So you are not upset that he tried to stave off the inevitable by returning to the Army so they would stop hunting down the tribe. You're only bemoaning the inevitable, the point of the film.

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Saturday, May 27, 2017 2:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Costner's character rejoining the army would not have stopped anything. This film is set during the American expansion further into the West. There was no making the army stop hunting this band of Dakota.

Ceeehrist, JSF are you really that obtuse not to see that the army paved the way into the West and with that the conflict and the confrontations that occurred?

Were we just suppose to roll over and play dead because the White man wanted OUR land?


In the film, The Army was chasing the tribe because of the desertion of Dances With Wolves (Dunbar). He did not rejoin the Army, just returned to them so they had no further need to look for him. His purpose was to remove the Army's need to further hunt the tribe. Recall that he was apparently one of the first contacts of the tribe with the Army. They were not actively hunting the tribe (this specific tribe) when he reported to post.

In the film, they cannot know the future for certain. They are surmising and supposing, but the history you now know does not exist in the time of the film.

You say YOUR land. Did your tribe or nation, the language, have a word or phrase for ownership of land? I have heard that the Native languages did not have any terms or understanding of ownership of lands, or purchasing or selling lands, and that this was a major obstacle and misunderstanding between the Native Americans and all interlopers from Yurp - French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, Dutch, and English. Are you saying this is incorrect?
And were your tribes nomadic? Or did they have established towns or cities?

The Army was not it's own Master. It served at the beck and call of the Government. The Government had purchased the land. The politicians running the Government were the directors and negotiators of what the Government policy was regarding land, purchasing of land, and Natives.

The film refers to the tribe as Lakota. Some description of the tribe is fluid. different versions place the story near the modern day Dakotas, and others place it in the Southwest, like modern Arizona. The availability of film shooting locations apparently had impact on who/where the tribe would be.

The film begins during the Civil War, where intolerant Democrats were waging War upon America. Following this, the Army had more time, under Democrat President Johnson. History cannot be changed regarding the intolerance of Democrats. I don't recall for sure what year it was towards the end of the film. Johnson served until 1869.

About a decade before Civil War, President Fillmore (Whig Party) had been a bit more reasonable regarding Natives. He was followed by Democrats Pierce and Buchanan, before Lincoln (First ever Republican President).

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Saturday, May 27, 2017 11:42 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


JSF is kinda right Brenda, as far as the movie goes. Hell, you're right as well.
I'll explain:

You're right about the US Cavalry/Army moving west and displacing tribes as they went along. Hell, they were being massacred. Land wasn't the only thing that was being taken, the culture and the spirit of the Native Americans were also being taken. It is well documented what the government did to the human beings that were here well before the arrival of the Europeans. Even the name Native Americans is a misnomer, as the country was "discovered" by the Europeans for Europeans.

America was so named by them after:

Quote:

Because a German map maker named it after Amerigo Vespucci because he was the first person to prove that America was a "New World" so he called it Amerigo but accidentally miss spelled it so it America.


German, Italian and soon after many other "immigrants" made their way to this country, they had a hand in the making of this country taken from those that were already here. Funny how that works isn't it. This is the land of those people and yet we have some "people" who think that building a wall is the answer to this country's problems. All I can say is Tisk, Tisk! Ironic isn't it. Land taken, stolen and those that did the stealing are claiming that others that come here are
trespassing. That takes a lot of nerve. unbelievably huge balls to say anything other than thank you.

JSF is right about "Dunbar" not going back to rejoin the Cavalry at his post on the outskirts of the territory. In the movie he went back to retrieve his "dairy" and notes of his time out on the edge of the western territory, at least the edge as far as the whites were concerned. His story is one of understanding, after years of civil war and now the war against the native peoples, he describes in his book how he came to understand and care about humans that had a different way of life; different than the one he was used to.

Someone on YouTube described it as Wind in His Hair, once a bitter enemy to all whites, also came to understand that not all whites wanted his death. He came to understand Dunbar, a white man. Just as Dunbar came to understand that the natives had their own way of life, as noble as any human being. He befriended Wind in his Hair and discovered his humanity. The imagery is unforgettable, poignant and remarkable for many reasons: one is showing the Native man on top of the cliff shouting to those below and declaring his friendship and understanding. The imagery of the native on top and making the statement for all in the film and those of us watching the film - here I am a Native American finally getting my say.
I am not your enemy, I am your friend. The symbolism was utterly breathtaking.

Costner made a wise decision to use that scene, because it spoke volumes. He rode off to save the tribe he was traveling with. And he showed the Native American as a human with a heart Now, some may say that here is a white man thinking so much of himself so as to say that only he could save the Native American. I could understand that. But here's my take on that final scene, although it could be considered arrogant on Costner's part, I think he, as hero, steps aside on places the spotlight on Wind in His Hair. It is a double hero shot, the white man and Native American, riding off into the sunset.

He gets his book, which is his account of how he came to understand and appreciate his fellow man, the American native to this land.






Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Another film that was shit all over when it came out is "Dance With Wolves".

The end of this film upsets me.

Which part? Why?
Did you want him to stay so the Army would hunt down and destroy the tribe?



The very last few scenes when Costner's character and his wife were riding off separate from the Dakota. Those scenes showed what would become the end of an entire culture JSF. The Horse culture that was part of my ancestors and the Cheyenne and the Dakota and the Crow was coming to an end. That band would end up on a reservation. Way of life GONE.

Also at the end of the film, he wasn't in the army anymore. He had become Indian.


OK. So you are not upset that he tried to stave off the inevitable by returning to the Army so they would stop hunting down the tribe. You're only bemoaning the inevitable, the point of the film.



Costner's character rejoining the army would not have stopped anything. This film is set during the American expansion further into the West. There was no making the army stop hunting this band of Dakota.

Ceeehrist, JSF are you really that obtuse not to see that the army paved the way into the West and with that the conflict and the confrontations that occurred?

Were we just suppose to roll over and play dead because the White man wanted OUR land?


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Sunday, May 28, 2017 4:07 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Well... this thread got too political for me. SGG coming in and putting a thick coating of white guilt on it sealed the deal for me.

It's a shame we can't discuss anything here without politics muddying the waters.

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Monday, May 29, 2017 12:18 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I have nothing to do with anyone's white guilt, that's on the individual. I merely spoke truth, and if that hurts, well then, so be it. There are folks that have been
hiding behind "fake" stories of how the Native American were savages and cutthroats.

Well, that's nothing but a version of the truth told from a particular point of view. As I said, it is well documented that the horse soldiers of that era run amok throughout the land and massacred natives to remove them from lands where the settlers; for example the Great Oklahoma Land Rush:

http://www.americancowboychronicles.com/2013/06/the-great-oklahoma-lan
d-rush-of-1893.html


But don't start flogging yourself just yet. There are reports that Native American tribes fought each other as well. Here's just one of the stories I found in The American Cowboy Chronicles. The below article was dated in December 2013:

http://www.americancowboychronicles.com/2013/12/the-pawnee-massacre-su
ndown-of-pawnee.html


Of course, I'm no expert on the matter, but it did seem in the movie that the Lakotas were fierce enemies of the Pawnee. I could also tell you that my history professor at Hunter taught us that the Caribs and the Tainos, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, were also bitter enemies and often fought each other during raids
perpetrated by the Caribs.



So allay your fears of "white guilt" cause you'll get no sympathy from me. And this history is not in the least political. Merely truth.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Well... this thread got too political for me. SGG coming in and putting a thick coating of white guilt on it sealed the deal for me.

It's a shame we can't discuss anything here without politics muddying the waters.


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