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Why are people so incredibly gullible?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, April 14, 2016 18:36
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Saturday, April 9, 2016 8:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


This discussion deserves not to be buried in the "Russian and Assad's War Crimes in Syria" thread (a thread by its very title dedicated by ONEOFTHETREESTOOGES to a single-sided POV).

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60278&p=6

The discussion went like this:


Quote:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160323-why-are-people-so-incredibly-
gullible
Why Are People So Incredibly Gullible?

Based on the research to date, Newman suggests our gut reactions swivel around just five simple questions:

* Does a fact come from a credible source?
* Do others believe it?
* Is there plenty of evidence to support it?
* Is it compatible with what I believe?
* Does it tell a good story?

It’s always worth asking whether you have thought carefully about the things you are reading and hearing. Or are you just being a cognitive miser, persuaded by biased feelings rather than facts? Some of your dearest opinions may have no more substance than the great banana hoax of the year 2000.
- KIKI

An interesting article kiki, I suggest you post it in one of Sig's threads like the "Freedom in Ukraine" thread. There you will see a real cognitive miser in action.-ONEOFTHETHREESTOOGES

Obviously you didn't read the article. It explains how 'source' and 'number of people who believe' are irrelevant to the truth or falsity of a claim.- KIKI

"Source" is irrelevant to the truth of a claim? Haha you wish. Obviously you didn't understand the article.-ONEOFTHETHREESTOOGES



The article then goes on to detail how each of those five points (above) derails our logical thinking and demand for evidence. ONE of those five points- "credible source" - is favored by THREEOFTHETHREESTOOGES, who only take evidence from sources they "believe" ... a self-defeating search for truth, if there ever was one!

And ONEOFTHETHREESTOOGES chooses to defend the brain-dead strategy that is deconstructed by the very article which it claims to understand, proving how brain-dead it really is. Or, as the article says


"It's true: we would rather hide our heads in the sand than listen to evidence questioning our beliefs, even if the facts are solid."


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Saturday, April 9, 2016 8:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


www.bbc.com/future/story/20160323-why-are-people-so-incredibly-gullibl
e

Quote:

Why do so many false beliefs persist in the face of hard evidence?

One, somewhat humbling, explanation is that we are all “cognitive misers” – to save time and energy, our brains use intuition rather than analysis.

As a simple example, quickly answer the following questions:

“How many animals of each kind did Moses take on the Ark?”
“Margaret Thatcher was the president of what country?”

Between 10 and 50% of study participants presented with these questions fail to notice that it was Noah, not Moses, who built the Ark, and that Margaret Thatcher was the prime minster, not the president – even when they have been explicitly asked to note inaccuracies.

Known as the “Moses illusion”, this absentmindedness illustrates just how easily we miss the details of a statement, favouring the general gist in place of the specifics. Instead, we normally just judge whether it “feels” right or wrong before accepting or rejecting its message. “Even when we ‘know’ we should be drawing on facts and evidence, we just draw on feelings,” says Eryn Newman at the University of Southern California, whose forthcoming paper summarises the latest research on misinformation.

I, also, fell for the "Moses illusion" and answered "two!", my favorite number, too quickly. In theory, an artificial mind would correct itself when the error was pointed out to it. But real minds can stay wrong indefinitely or until somebody pushes their reset button with a bullet to the brain-pan. Squish! Nonfatal ways to push the reset button would be terminating the employment of that brain or not reelecting the owner of the brain to Congress. But even these lesser ways sometimes won't make the brain rethink an answer.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 9:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Apparently, autistics spot these errors rather easily. They don't "filter" well, and their emotion-based filters are defective; they tend to be very alive to their immediate input.

Maybe an autism "epidemic" isn't such a bad thing.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 9:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently, autistics spot these errors rather easily. They don't "filter" well, and their emotion-based filters are defective; they tend to be very alive to their immediate input.

Maybe an autism "epidemic" isn't such a bad thing.

I do believe that brains evolved for survival, not for truth, so it is no surprise when healthy brains naturally can't find the truth. But your autism example suggests most of the mental machinery for finding truth is already there if only people will use their brains in an unnatural way. Maybe they need to draw logic diagrams to get to the truth? That is why Aristotle (384—322 B.C.E.) is still famous. But most people have decided that a torrent of words persuading and deceiving are of greater advantage to their survival than making a few simple diagrams in the sand or on paper.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 11:12 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This discussion deserves not to be buried in the "Russian and Assad's War Crimes in Syria" thread.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60278&p=6


Yes, this article deserves a thread of its own. I don't know why kiki posted it in the Russia war crimes thread; presumably because she thinks the evidence of Russia's/Assad's crimes is spurious, and that people are 'gullible' if they believe it.

I find it constantly entertaining how you and kiki are always hot on the latest psychological research of how political partisans fool themselves, and fall for misleading information, but you never think to apply it to yourselves.

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 12:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, you bring up an interesting point: Human survival typically depends on human interaction, not so much on alertness to the environment. Our attention is fixed on other humans since birth- our vision geared toward human-type faces and our hearing attuned to human-type speech-sounds. So of course our minds are also geared towards fitting in with the "human" environment, not the natural one, more so since our evolutionary past has intensified our self-domestication.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, April 9, 2016 3:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, you bring up an interesting point: Human survival typically depends on human interaction, not so much on alertness to the environment. Our attention is fixed on other humans since birth- our vision geared toward human-type faces and our hearing attuned to human-type speech-sounds. So of course our minds are also geared towards fitting in with the "human" environment, not the natural one, more so since our evolutionary past has intensified our self-domestication.

I don't think it is self-domestication. It is more likely that the kind of people who ask questions and then use logic on the answers are killed. It is matter of survival of the fittest -- those who fit in best. Socrates is famous for asking too many questions and being killed for using logic on the sadly inadequate answers from Greek leaders. Run the human race under such conditions for a few thousand years and genes for a Socrates or Plato will get fewer and fewer.

I've got another example, besides Socrates. Since the article mentioned the “Moses illusion” there are two explanations for what Moses did in the following passage of the Bible. The executive summary: on orders from Moses, 3000 Jews are executed. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ex+32%3A25-30&version=ERV

Christians who want to fit in with other Christians will explain this Moses story by noting that Christianity is monotheistic and therefore making a golden calf is a dreadful sin. The Bible study then quickly moves on to the next chapter where Israelites stopped wearing jewelry because they were feeling sad. With all those corpses, that’s enough reason to feel sad. The other explanation, the one that will obviously get you excluded from the group, and maybe killed, is that Moses has a very bad temper, but he can easily find people from the tribe of Levi to murder on Moses’ command. The present day has an abundance of the Moses-type leaders and Levi-type murderers. It must be hereditary.

Perhaps this is why people can’t think clearly and don’t use logic to question their leaders. Many of the questioners would have been killed off, thus leaving no descendents. The human race is left with far too many people born too fearful to ask coherent questions and understand the answers. Or too smart to ask. And the terrible results can be seen all around us in discussions of the real world at fireflyfans.net.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 10, 2016 9:02 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This discussion deserves not to be buried in the "Russian and Assad's War Crimes in Syria" thread.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60278&p=6


Yes, this article deserves a thread of its own. I don't know why kiki posted it in the Russia war crimes thread; presumably because she thinks the evidence of Russia's/Assad's crimes is spurious, and that people are 'gullible' if they believe it.

I find it constantly entertaining how you and kiki are always hot on the latest psychological research of how political partisans fool themselves, and fall for misleading information, but you never think to apply it to yourselves.



Says it all KPO.

" political partisans fool themselves, and fall for misleading information, but you never think to apply it to yourselves."

It's what we have been pointing out about SIG and 1kiki from the get go.

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Sunday, April 10, 2016 9:25 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I think youre mostly rite about it being hereditary, 2nd.

But there iz a nurture aspect to it. Kidz get nonsens pounded into their hedz in their critical brain development yirz. Relijun iz all about obeying authority without question. Literacy training (especially English) iz the same. You can get by fine in many plasez in this world without relijun, but being illiterate condemz you to low wajez, isolation andor crime & prizon.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:13 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This discussion deserves not to be buried in the "Russian and Assad's War Crimes in Syria" thread.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60278&p=6


Yes, this article deserves a thread of its own. I don't know why kiki posted it in the Russia war crimes thread; presumably because she thinks the evidence of Russia's/Assad's crimes is spurious, and that people are 'gullible' if they believe it.

I find it constantly entertaining how you and kiki are always hot on the latest psychological research of how political partisans fool themselves, and fall for misleading information, but you never think to apply it to yourselves.



Says it all KPO.

" political partisans fool themselves, and fall for misleading information, but you never think to apply it to yourselves."

It's what we have been pointing out about SIG and 1kiki from the get go.



Triple yep. I said that over a year ago to Beavis, "Yes, the US Gov is making a mess of many things and I disagree with many of it's actions... just like other governments including Russia. Don't you see the similarities?" But agenda driven and 'gullible' they've swallowed the Red pill and just won't or can't look at themselves. That's why I continue to point how amazing it is and how regular they complain about the very things they are guilty of. Uncanny. It's like the ethical side of their unconscious trying to communicate with them.



G

"It's like the ethical side of their unconscious trying to communicate with them."

Yeah only it can't get through to them.

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Sunday, April 10, 2016 2:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, children will go with what they're told rather than what they observe first-hand (with the 'treat-dispensing mechanical box' study as an example.)

It's how technologies and skills get passed on, even if they were discovered by accident (as many were), and passed on by rote without understanding. Being able to pass on those technologies through generations would be a powerful evolutionary force.

It's also how superstitions/ religions and cultural identities/ explanations survive. Tho according to a recent study, many of those beliefs that result in steep hierarchies were implanted and reinforced by human sacrifice, not just myths.

So, out of this list:
* Does a fact come from a credible source?
* Do others believe it?
* Is there plenty of evidence to support it?
* Is it compatible with what I believe?
* Does it tell a good story?

credible source (hierarchy), others believe (instilled beliefs), compatible with existing beliefs (instilled beliefs), and good story (fits with instilled beliefs/ explanations) might be reasons why people are so gullible, and cling to and defend, social/ economic systems that place large numbers of people at the powerless and brutalized bottom, while a minuscule number of people have phenomenal wealth and power over others at the top. Even though one might think that, looking around, people would have a DUH! moment and realize the setup was robbing and killing them, and that there were very few people up at the top, and that it made no sense to keep the system.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/04/473004808/human-sacr
ifice-is-linked-to-social-hierarchies-in-new-study





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, April 11, 2016 10:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Saying they found "a darker link between religion and the evolution of modern hierarchical societies" than has been previously suggested, a group of scientists say ritual human sacrifice promoted stratified social systems – and helped to sustain inherited class systems once they were established.

After comparing dozens of societies, the researchers found that ritualized human sacrifice was far more common in highly stratified societies than it was in egalitarian societies. Noting the high level of overlap between religious and political sectors in the societies, the scientists write, "human sacrifice may have been co-opted by elites as a divinely sanctioned means of social control."

Acknowledging that their findings might be "unpalatable," the scientists say, "our results suggest that ritual killing helped humans transition from the small egalitarian groups of our ancestors, to the large stratified societies we live in today."

For the study, researchers looked at 93 traditional Austronesian cultures – societies that share a family of languages and span from Madagascar to Easter Island and from Taiwan to New Zealand. For each one, they noted how segmented the society was — designating them egalitarian or either moderate or highly stratified — as well as the presence of human sacrifice in their rituals.

The work was done by psychologist Joseph Watts at the University of Auckland, along with scholars in social sciences and evolution from Germany and Australia; their findings were published in Nature on Monday.

While the cultures shared similarities in their language, they had a wide range of religious beliefs and observances. Many also practiced human sacrifice; the researchers laid out some of the reasons:

"Common occasions for human sacrifice in these societies included the breach of taboo or custom, the funeral of an important chief, and the consecration of a newly built house or boat. Ethnographic descriptions highlight that the sacrificial victims were typically of low social status, such as slaves, and the instigators were of high social status, such as priests and chiefs."

As for how the sacrifices were carried out, the list includes "burning, drowning, strangulation, bludgeoning, burial, being crushed under a newly built canoe, being cut to pieces, as well as being rolled off the roof of a house and then decapitated."

Their findings, the researchers say, are "consistent with historical accounts that speculate that in order for human sacrifice to be exploited by social elites, there must first be social elites to exploit it."

The study is the latest modern attempt to understand the cultural role played by human sacrifices – rituals in which people were killed in the name of a supernatural entity. As the researchers note, such practices are known to have taken place "in early Germanic, Arab, Turkic, Inuit, American, Austronesian, African, Chinese and Japanese cultures."




Sticking with their interpretation of "human sacrifice" which probably means killing in person during a ritual using primitive means (ie not mowing down dozens at a time with a machine gun) .... I wonder how the vast majority of a population can be induced to tolerate such a ritual? It would have to be based on the belief that such a ritual would bring some sort of blessings to ... well, everyone. It would be just an extension of asking for a precious object ... your best canoe, your fattest pig, or your best lamb .... to asking for a person. We see that in the Bible too.

That whole "human sacrifice" thing ...

* Does a fact come from a credible source? YEP, if you think of your leaders as credible
* Do others believe it? SURE THING
* Is there plenty of evidence to support it? WELL, AH.... MOVING ALONG ...
* Is it compatible with what I believe? SURE, IT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD SINCE CHILDHOOD
* Does it tell a good story? WHAT MAKES A STORY "GOOD"? CONFLICT, RESOLUTION, REPETITION? THEN -YEP!


------------------

ONEOFTHETHREESTOOGES spoke for all of them when it said
Quote:

"Source" is irrelevant to the truth of a claim? Haha you wish. Obviously you didn't understand the article.
Just wanted to point out what an embarrassing moment that was, for it.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, April 11, 2016 2:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


We too have human sacrifice, if you count the death penalty.


BTW, a few weeks ago, independent of the study, I changed my mind about the death penalty, but not for 'moral' or 'humanitarian' reasons. I used to be neutral about it. Then I realized it was a handy political tool, and could be used to keep a population subject. Why give a government - ANY government - that tool? If they're going to start being oppressors of their own population, they should be forced to either do it in secret, or cross that bright line between a government that never kills its own people, and a government that does. There should be no squishy, equivocal territory between the two.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2016 4:20 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I, also, fell for the "Moses illusion" and answered "two!", my favorite number, too quickly.


It's also worth noting that the question could be asked another way to trip people up. We don't know how many animals are there, there are still undiscovered species out there.

And also, to be fair, no one is going to stop and say "is this a trick question" when they're just perusing an internet article. I'm not really sure this can qualify as evidence for gullibility. Laziness maybe.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2016 4:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

I, also, fell for the "Moses illusion" and answered "two!", my favorite number, too quickly.


It's also worth noting that the question could be asked another way to trip people up. We don't know how many animals are there, there are still undiscovered species out there.

And also, to be fair, no one is going to stop and say "is this a trick question" when they're just perusing an internet article. I'm not really sure this can qualify as evidence for gullibility. Laziness maybe.



Then there are also those who have built up so many walls around them that they can't even scale them from the inside anymore...

It's not scary that I've done such a good job insulating myself from all the modern day to day BS, as well as a potential for a Zombie Apocolypse....

What's scary is that I am so comfortable in my cocoon of nothing that I don't like the outside world as most others see it anymore... the way I used to see things.

You all live in a very scary world indeed. Ask me how I know....



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, April 13, 2016 4:59 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

You all live in a very scary world indeed. Ask me how I know....


I'll ask you, IF you can tell me something I don't already know.

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Thursday, April 14, 2016 6:34 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ONEOFTHETHREESTOOGES spoke for all of them when it said
Quote:

"Source" is irrelevant to the truth of a claim? Haha you wish. Obviously you didn't understand the article. Just wanted to point out what an embarrassing moment that was, for it.



Err no, an embarrassing moment for Kiki, and now for you. I can see why people who cite Russian state propaganda, conspiracy blogs and neo-Nazi videos would try to claim that "source is irrelevant", but sorry, anyone with half a brain can tell that it is very relevant.

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Thursday, April 14, 2016 6:36 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
And also, to be fair, no one is going to stop and say "is this a trick question" when they're just perusing an internet article. I'm not really sure this can qualify as evidence for gullibility. Laziness maybe.


Yep.

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