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The Guardian on Syria: Russia has a lot to answer for

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Thursday, October 1, 2015 20:31
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Friday, September 11, 2015 10:54 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


A Guardian editorial: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/11/the-guardian-view
-on-the-bloodshed-in-syria-russia-has-a-lot-to-answer-for?CMP=soc_3156


Quote:

Good news about Syria is so rare that the recent announcement that the United Nations is setting up a special investigation into chemical weapon use is especially welcome. The hope must be that this might prevent more chemical atrocities – which haven’t stopped, despite diplomatic efforts. But the much less positive backdrop is that Russia has made sure any UN text aimed at establishing responsibility will shield Syria’s regime from accountability: Russia will use veto power if need be. This is in line with Vladimir Putin’s overall strategy, which has always been to protect the Assad regime from any UN security council action against the large-scale killing of civilians his forces have been carrying out.

Now there are reports that Russia is setting up a military base in Latakia, on Syria’s coast. The official explanation is anti-terrorism and countering Islamic State – a formula that, on the face of it, aligns Russia with western objectives. The most optimistic take is to say that Russia is now anticipating a grand international bargain over Syria, to end the war while possibly carving up the country into zones of influence. There are signs Russia is worried about a US-Iran rapprochement on Syria that might diminish its clout. It is no coincidence that the new military base is in the heart of Alawite territory, Bashar al-Assad’s core constituency.

The deployment could give Moscow more of a say in an eventual negotiation, especially after Mr Assad’s forces have apparently been losing ground in the southern parts of Syria. The less optimistic view is that the Syrian war is destined to grind on much longer – beyond a death toll that now stands at a quarter of a million – and Russia is simply making sure its ally has the forces, the munitions and whatever other support he needs to hold on.

Such developments draw less international public attention than the flow of refugees into Europe. Yet they weigh heavily on what may lie ahead. Russia and Iran are Mr Assad’s key backers. Anyone wondering why tens of thousands are fleeing Syria must remember that the vast majority of civilian casualties have been caused by his forces, and the militias that assist them. The scale of these crimes has been well documented, from barrel bombs dropped by helicopters on cities, to indiscriminate artillery fire and the disappearance of tens of thousands of Syrians in torture centres. How he continues to finance his military machine despite international sanctions and a collapsed economy is a question that no doubt points to money and other assistance coming from Russia and Iran. This is not to say that horrible war crimes have not been committed by jihadi rebel groups. But they account for a much smaller share of casualties.

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So, when debating the Syrian war, it is important to discriminate between the various external state involvements. There are so many actors that it has become tempting to think responsibility for the death toll and the human misery are equally shared by the west, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, Turkey and others.

Look more closely at the dynamics of the war and it becomes obvious that some actors are much more implicated – directly or indirectly – in the massacres of civilians. Russia has a special responsibility, not only because it is Mr Assad’s most powerful backer but because, unlike Iran, it holds a permanent seat on the UN security council.

This is why, as Mr Putin heads for the UN general assembly in New York later this month, efforts to adopt a resolution banning the use of barrel bombs must stay focused. Russia will undoubtedly veto such a text, but that would at least expose its complicity. The Syrian quagmire has taken on such a degree of complexity, and western governments are now so intent on just combatting Isis, that it has become commonplace to say there is nothing left to do about Syria but targeted counter-terrorist air strikes, along with increased aid for refugees.

It says a lot about western strategic disarray in the Middle East that this policy suits both the Assad regime and Russia well. This will not do anything to save lives, nor to stop the outflow of Syrian families to Europe. There is no clear-cut solution to this war, and perhaps never has been, but as things now stand, western states are missing a key point: when the UN general assembly gathers, Mr Putin should not be given the chance to bask in anti-Isis solidarity with the west as if he had no role in Syria’s killing fields. Strong pressure must be brought to bear on him, because he is Mr Assad’s chief patron, and Mr Assad is the number one cause of deaths in Syria.



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Saturday, September 12, 2015 9:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


"Why the sudden shift to SYRIA???", SIGNY asks.

Wasn't it you that asked that question of me? You thought I was trying to "distract" from the Ukraine with my post about Syria, because you thought (at the time) it should be all Ukraine, all the time? You characterized it as me playing with myself?

Sod off, jackass. You're dishonest, you cant' stand an actual real discussion, and I'm boycotting this thread. Go play with yourself, you dickwhack. Or you can gather your hyena friends and laugh together on this trash dump too.

If you want to discuss it (which is very very doubtful) you can find me here. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60002 If you just want to propagandize, you can do it with your idiot friends here.



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, September 12, 2015 8:20 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
"Why the sudden shift to SYRIA???", SIGNY asks.

Wasn't it you that asked that question of me? You thought I was trying to "distract" from the Ukraine with my post about Syria, because you thought (at the time) it should be all Ukraine, all the time? You characterized it as me playing with myself?

Sod off, jackass. You're dishonest, you cant' stand an actual real discussion, and I'm boycotting this thread. Go play with yourself, you dickwhack. Or you can gather your hyena friends and laugh together on this trash dump too.


No it wasn't. I await your apology.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, September 13, 2015 3:01 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

I'm starting to think she's wrong on purpose to get attention... away from Ukraine.



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, September 14, 2015 9:04 PM

THGRRI


Sorry I'm late, been busy following Putin's latest exploits in the Ukraine. What a jerk. I'm so sorry to see his mouthpiece SIG so upset. Shame on you guys.


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Thursday, October 1, 2015 10:49 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Russia starts bombing Syria, hitting non-IS rebel areas and killing dozens of civilians according to reports:

Quote:

Syrian civil defence volunteers put the total civilian death toll from Wednesday’s strikes on Homs and Hama at 40, including eight children.

The volunteer group said thermobaric missiles were used and claimed that they struck a public market, bread distribution point and administrative buildings in Homs, as well as civilian homes.

“We can’t believe an even more advanced military power has arrived in Syria to kill civilians,” said one civil defence volunteer in a statement issued by his organisation.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/01/russia-launches-fresh-air
strikes-on-syria-targets


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, October 1, 2015 6:18 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Russia starts bombing Syria, hitting non-IS rebel areas and killing dozens of civilians according to reports:

Quote:

Syrian civil defence volunteers put the total civilian death toll from Wednesday’s strikes on Homs and Hama at 40, including eight children.

The volunteer group said thermobaric missiles were used and claimed that they struck a public market, bread distribution point and administrative buildings in Homs, as well as civilian homes.

“We can’t believe an even more advanced military power has arrived in Syria to kill civilians,” said one civil defence volunteer in a statement issued by his organisation.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/01/russia-launches-fresh-air
strikes-on-syria-targets





Maybe Russia's tactic is to motivate an even greater migration out of Syria in hopes of overwhelming Nato nations.



Putin fucked up. Going into Syria the way he committed is going to be his downfall. He's already had to lie to the world community about all the civilians kill in the first Russian airstrike. An airstrike that had nothing to do with isis.


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Thursday, October 1, 2015 6:55 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Putin fucked up. Going into Syria the way he committed is going to be his downfall.

His war in Ukraine is certainly not turning out the way he planned, with Ukraine defiant and the Russian economy in the toilet as a result of sanctions and the low oil price. The other day I noticed this on RT - http://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/316716-oil-prices-russian-economy/

"The recession in Russia is turning out to be longer and deeper than most economists had expected..."

Ha!

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, October 1, 2015 8:31 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Putin fucked up. Going into Syria the way he committed is going to be his downfall.

His war in Ukraine is certainly not turning out the way he planned, with Ukraine defiant and the Russian economy in the toilet as a result of sanctions and the low oil price. The other day I noticed this on RT - http://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/316716-oil-prices-russian-economy/

"The recession in Russia is turning out to be longer and deeper than most economists had expected..."

Ha!

It's not personal. It's just war.



Good discussion at crosstalk. Not so smooth sailing ahead for Russia.


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