Waves of unemployable coming to your town! by Wishimay

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Waves of unemployable coming to your town!

POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 13:18
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VIEWED: 2611
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Monday, January 5, 2015 10:46 PM

https://fr.news.yahoo.com/common-core-ruins-lives-poor-unskilled-ameri
cans-making-185239733.html

I'll just say my husband took trig and calculus in college. HE had a hard time trying to figure out my kids' fifth grade homework. I can't imagine what a Common Core GED would look like. I doubt I would have passed.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:11 PM

WISHIMAY

Thread jacking my own thread. I mean what is there to say about a couple million extra people without diplomas? And who could do anything about it really?

Sooo. This is one of my other theories that people don't like. Several years ago I was reading an article by women who's husbands had molested children that had been married for decades and had shown no proclivities and had normal sex lives otherwise. Then I noticed a re-occurring theme in these types of articles over the years and it was that most of these men had fully grey beards and they had gone grey EARLY. I think that maybe a quarter of these old farts have a gene that causes a withering in the impulse control regions of the brain, like a chronic alcoholic. Not that this absolves them, obviously, but it would certainly go a ways to explaining why there is so many of them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2898849/Could-criminal-behav
iour-sign-DEMENTIA.html

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Tuesday, January 6, 2015 3:26 PM

THGRRI

I don't want you to think this post has gone unnoticed. I am writing a professor now who is very much into education. I am sending him your link plus another. I am writing to him about how those who need a more enticing path into education are being discouraged by al this. In a nut shell of course. My letter to the professor is actually a word doc. that is much more involved.

Good post.

Other link:

http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/ACE-and-Pearson-Collaborate-to-T
ransform-GED-Test.aspx

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Tuesday, January 6, 2015 7:21 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
I don't want you to think this post has gone unnoticed. I am writing to him about how those who need a more enticing path into education are being discouraged by al this.

http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/ACE-and-Pearson-Collaborate-to-T
ransform-GED-Test.aspx

Well, that's decent of you. I admit as someone who doesn't do well in standard educational environments (though I managed to at least get a 3.0 in between napping through high school) that I worry for my kiddo as well. She has a visual/spatial reasoning delay in math and the alphabet and grading an essay question on her takes some work. However, she knows how to physically do many things. If she doesn't stay in traditional school with traditional classes (which makes her miserable and we are considering homeschooling for real next year) I doubt she would pass a Common Core type GED test as well. It really seems that this test would exclude many people who aren't traditional learners...

BTW. My kids' handwriting is fairly bad. It's a muscle control thing, not an "I'm lazy and don't care thing" and I explained this to her teacher on day one, every year. So far this year, her teacher has made 63 comments on her papers about her handwriting....That she can't do anything about...

Just thought I would add that under the "I hate people" section of the day.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2015 9:10 PM

THGRRI

I think by insisting all children learn the same lessons the same way, educators ignore technological advances that would help those who have strengths in areas other than the sciences. Using a standard approach to educating children disenfranchises many and they drop out. Educators need to realize that teaching students how to find the answers using technology instead of testing reliant upon memorization, is a way to keep Children from feeling disenfranchised and actively learning. The internet is a game changer and I feel they miss that by demanding every child learn the same lessons in the same manor. Any parent who has more than one child knows they learn differently, and at dissimilar paces.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2015 9:23 PM

WISHIMAY

The only reason I can come up with for there NOT being a major overhaul in the system is that many people would protest their kid not being taught traditionally, because they themselves do not understand why their kids do the things they do. Just from reading comment sections there are many people that are staunch supporters of Common Core just because it's new and shiny, even when they know next to nothing about it.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:19 PM

THGRRI

To many people are enthralled with how it is done now. That means they think this is the only way to do it. Time has show us that those who fear change never discover anything new.

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Friday, January 9, 2015 8:51 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
https://fr.news.yahoo.com/common-core-ruins-lives-poor-unskilled-ameri
cans-making-185239733.html

I'll just say my husband took trig and calculus in college. HE had a hard time trying to figure out my kids' fifth grade homework. I can't imagine what a Common Core GED would look like. I doubt I would have passed.

Hey Wish,

I'm so all over the map on this issue.

I think that "Common Core" is a good idea in and of itself. Honestly, I think the fact that only 1 in 10 people testing for the GED their first time fail it is a good standard....

After all, these are people who missed out on many months or years of education. Why, unless they are in the top 10% who actually learn it, should they be able to study a few workbooks for a month and pass it? Also, I feel that these tests do exactly what Pearson stated:

The point of the changes, Pearson assured America, is to measure career readiness and college readiness in addition to measuring the basic skills taught in high school.

How is this an erroneous statement?

I'm sure that you know that I'm one of the BIGGEST detractors of certain aspects of the nation's College Gen Ed Core, but being able to pass a GED exam today means that you have a grasp on basic math, reading and critical thinking. In 2013 and before, you simply were not proving anything by passing this test.

Many big store chains and restaurants and bars and other places already hire people without high school diploma. I'm working at one of them right now for very close to minimum wage.

If you don't have what it takes to learn the basic skills required to pass the GED as it is today, I think the potential employer can use that information to make a more informed decision about hiring competent people than when they're just giving these things away to anyone with a pulse. I'd certainly want to have that ability if I was running my own business.

You never know... Most of us will not even use a lot of the stuff we learned in High School at our jobs, but at least when we're on our way to college or landing that first job, we had all of that fresh in our mind and it allowed the versatility that comes with a firm grasp on some of the more remedial things about life and living before we're on our own.

There's no shame in admitting that if you were to take the GED tomorrow you'd fail. I know I wouldn't have a problem with the math questions and the reading comprehension, but the science and any other sides they throw in there might be enough to ensure that I wouldn't pass without a TON of studying. This isn't a question of intelligence. This is just I've held a wide spectrum of different kinds of jobs over the years and that they all required either a good knowledge of math and/or reading and writing skills that kept them fresh in my mind for so long. However, none of them required any scientific knowledge.

Now, all that being said... there is quite a bit unfairness here, I won't disagree with that.

First of all, statistically speaking, your chance of obtaining your GED in 2013 was nearly 1000% more than getting it in 2014. I can understand the frustration that a matter of timing would bring to someone who was sprung with this new test last year and was one of the 450,000 who most likely shouldn't have gotten a GED, but would have in 2013.

The thing that is even more unfair is how they practically give the actual HS Diploma's away, especially in really bad neighborhoods. I truly believe that in all but the very "best" neighborhoods today, the GED as it is written today is a MUCH better indicator that you've learned what HS was supposed to teach you.

I know it sucks right now, but I think we'll look back 20 years from now and be a better country for having done it. If you don't believe that, there's no way I'm going to convince you otherwise.

Although I agree entirely that the Core, or one day hopefully even higher should be the eventual standard of HS equivalency, I do have some suggestions as to how to better ease into this better system and to make it more accessible at the same time.

- Training materials should be FREE. Almost everything revolving around this issue is done online now. The questions and tests are already made. The training booklets are already made. The grading process is automated outside of any essay type questions which I doubt these new tests even have. I know there are costs here that need to be addressed... These books didn't write themselves... I'm just saying that this doesn't take very much compensation to pay for things like authorship or server and maintenance costs once you cut out all the fat... Freaking drop in the bucket...

- Stupidly easy to find Training materials should be the first freaking thing that pops up on a Google search for "GED", "G.E.D.", "ged", "Ged", "Jed", "Jedi" or "High School Equivalency". How do you make that happen? Give Google a $1,000 tax credit every year for somebody who passes the GED that got the training materials through their site. How do you make people admit they got it from Google? Give them a $100 gift card to the big box store of their choice or a previous generation iPhone for free once they pass the test and send the code back to Google. There would need to be a system in place that ensured that Google wasn't allowed to claim twice as many as they got.

- To further make the process more fair and accessible, when you purchase the test, it should allow you to take it twice or even three times in a 1 year period. Testing can't be free. Somebody needs to ensure that people aren't cheating or scamming the system. Watching cheaters should be a Capitalistic Enterprise. If it's paid for by taxes, the workers will be too incompetent, or too uncaring to be effective. You want actual University Employees watching these tests... not temps who know this is only a 1 week gig.

In no way should the test be made easier. Training should be free online. Training and testing facilities and times and costs should be easy enough for my Grandma to figure out. You can take the test multiple times with your payment.

What do you think Wish?

Wake up Wish! lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 9, 2015 12:03 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I know it sucks right now, but I think we'll look back 20 years from now and be a better country for having done it. If you don't believe that, there's no way I'm going to convince you otherwise.

I think you lack an understanding of psychology. Many of the people who don't pass wouldn't try again. There is nothing beneficial in having a quarter of the population NOT having a GED. Not to mention it would be discriminatory, not only to the poor, but to people who are lower on the IQ scale, or have undiagnosed learning disabilities (and after having been through the system- If you don't ask for your child to BE diagnosed THEY WON'T DO IT AT ALL AND MANY HAVE NO CLUE THEY HAVE A LEARNING DISORDER).

The point of a GED is to prove functionality, not that you are above average. You shouldn't HAVE to be above average to get a job, many of which are basic and require no real book smarts. The majority of students should be able to pass it easily. Sure it SOUNDS great, lets require everyone to be smarter, but the actuality would just be reinforcing poverty in populations that already struggle to keep up. And let's be honest, most of those would be black and latino populations. Do you really want them to not go to school, knowing there would be no point if they KNOW they can't pass a GED to get a job??

Keeping kids in school REDUCES CRIME. I don't give a shit if your kid is smart or can do long division four different ways, so long as they ain't stealing my crap!!

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Saturday, January 10, 2015 11:05 PM

WISHIMAY

http://www.wsj.com/video/obama-plans-to-make-two-years-of-community-co
llege-free/65FE4443-DEB1-4402-98D4-3E75B7AB5922.html

And NOW we know why the Common Core GED exists. If they can't pass they can't get free college. But then the phrase "people that work hard" has pretty much only extended to politicians kids and like cronies...

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Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:58 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Don't get this "Common Core" thing, and, as someone who had a rough time with math in general (that's an understatement) that may not be such a surprise. Although I did well in other subjects - english grammar, english lit., history and science (in general) - standardized testing is a somewhat sore subject with me. I don't think it accurately measures intelligence and comprehension. That's just me, some may find it totally rewarding.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
I don't want you to think this post has gone unnoticed. I am writing to him about how those who need a more enticing path into education are being discouraged by al this.

http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/ACE-and-Pearson-Collaborate-to-T
ransform-GED-Test.aspx

Well, that's decent of you. I admit as someone who doesn't do well in standard educational environments (though I managed to at least get a 3.0 in between napping through high school) that I worry for my kiddo as well. She has a visual/spatial reasoning delay in math and the alphabet and grading an essay question on her takes some work. However, she knows how to physically do many things. If she doesn't stay in traditional school with traditional classes (which makes her miserable and we are considering homeschooling for real next year) I doubt she would pass a Common Core type GED test as well. It really seems that this test would exclude many people who aren't traditional learners...

BTW. My kids' handwriting is fairly bad. It's a muscle control thing, not an "I'm lazy and don't care thing" and I explained this to her teacher on day one, every year. So far this year, her teacher has made 63 comments on her papers about her handwriting....That she can't do anything about...

Just thought I would add that under the "I hate people" section of the day.

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Sunday, January 11, 2015 1:10 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Getting a GED provides a sense of accomplishment, especially for those that have a hard time concentrating in class as a teen (not very hard these days with all the distractions). My niece left school at the age of 14 and had a hard time at life for a number of years.

So it came to a point in her life where she asked to stay with me for a while to recoop her life. I had one main condition (paramount among four), that she get her GED. She busted her ass, studied hard and passed. You should have seen how proud she was. She even talked of both vocational study and community college. Now she's talking about a home business and learning to drive. This was once a shy, introspective angry teen who grew up before my eyes.

Was it the GED or maturity? Don't know for certain, but the GED didn't hurt none.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I know it sucks right now, but I think we'll look back 20 years from now and be a better country for having done it. If you don't believe that, there's no way I'm going to convince you otherwise.

I think you lack an understanding of psychology. Many of the people who don't pass wouldn't try again. There is nothing beneficial in having a quarter of the population NOT having a GED. Not to mention it would be discriminatory, not only to the poor, but to people who are lower on the IQ scale, or have undiagnosed learning disabilities (and after having been through the system- If you don't ask for your child to BE diagnosed THEY WON'T DO IT AT ALL AND MANY HAVE NO CLUE THEY HAVE A LEARNING DISORDER).

The point of a GED is to prove functionality, not that you are above average. You shouldn't HAVE to be above average to get a job, many of which are basic and require no real book smarts. The majority of students should be able to pass it easily. Sure it SOUNDS great, lets require everyone to be smarter, but the actuality would just be reinforcing poverty in populations that already struggle to keep up. And let's be honest, most of those would be black and latino populations. Do you really want them to not go to school, knowing there would be no point if they KNOW they can't pass a GED to get a job??

Keeping kids in school REDUCES CRIME. I don't give a shit if your kid is smart or can do long division four different ways, so long as they ain't stealing my crap!!

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Monday, January 12, 2015 8:22 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I think you lack an understanding of psychology. Many of the people who don't pass wouldn't try again. There is nothing beneficial in having a quarter of the population NOT having a GED. Not to mention it would be discriminatory, not only to the poor, but to people who are lower on the IQ scale, or have undiagnosed learning disabilities (and after having been through the system- If you don't ask for your child to BE diagnosed THEY WON'T DO IT AT ALL AND MANY HAVE NO CLUE THEY HAVE A LEARNING DISORDER).

The point of a GED is to prove functionality, not that you are above average. You shouldn't HAVE to be above average to get a job, many of which are basic and require no real book smarts. The majority of students should be able to pass it easily. Sure it SOUNDS great, lets require everyone to be smarter, but the actuality would just be reinforcing poverty in populations that already struggle to keep up. And let's be honest, most of those would be black and latino populations. Do you really want them to not go to school, knowing there would be no point if they KNOW they can't pass a GED to get a job??

Keeping kids in school REDUCES CRIME. I don't give a shit if your kid is smart or can do long division four different ways, so long as they ain't stealing my crap!!

Wish....

I was a Junior in HS when I got really mad at one of my English teachers when she discussed with the class why the Special Ed kids should not get the same diploma as we get.

Why did I get mad? Because my Brother spent the first half of his school life in special ed, and he'll never be 100%.....

Years later though, I get it.

Let's give the GED and diploma's for everyone. Then it means nothing.

It seems to me like your argument on why the GED shouldn't have been made harder to obtain is because of how sorry we should feel for the people who couldn't get one... whether it's hard-core birth defects, the aftermath of a tragic cranial accident, or just plain stupidness and/or lazyness.....

It's already hard enough finding a job with my "some college" and a legitimate HS diploma from the 90's..... Give one to anybody who pays 25 bucks and shows up for the exam, how would you even tell me apart from any one of them?

I'm using me as an example, but surely you can see how any kid who knew that the 12 years of school he was going through was for a diploma that he could wipe his ass with... well he might not be all that inclined to show up for tomorrow's classes.....

;)

I'm not saying you're wrong.... I'm not saying I'm wrong.

We can't be all Kinder-gloves soccer mom about this issue.

We hardly ever argue about anything, but it seems to me like you want to take the first 12 years of public school and completely illegitimate it. (Yes, I know I'm using that word wrong, but illegitimatize isn't a word, and I don't feel much like going to thesaurus.com right at the moment).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 13, 2015 6:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Getting a GED provides a sense of accomplishment, especially for those that have a hard time concentrating in class as a teen (not very hard these days with all the distractions). My niece left school at the age of 14 and had a hard time at life for a number of years.

So it came to a point in her life where she asked to stay with me for a while to recoop her life. I had one main condition (paramount among four), that she get her GED. She busted her ass, studied hard and passed. You should have seen how proud she was. She even talked of both vocational study and community college. Now she's talking about a home business and learning to drive. This was once a shy, introspective angry teen who grew up before my eyes.

Was it the GED or maturity? Don't know for certain, but the GED didn't hurt none.

SGG

From where I'm standing, that was GED and maturity.

She worked for that thing.

It's not a phucking freebie that all the kids can get when that one kid busts open the pinata at the birthday party.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 13, 2015 12:54 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Years later though, I get it.

We're talking GED's, not DIPLOMAS or even Certificates of Completion. A lot of special ed kids just get a Cert. of Completion. A certificate of completion is NOT the same as a GED, and is not generally used for further education outside of high school. I think you think the "retarded kids" get the same thing you do and that isn't true. It just looks like it at graduation. It's just saying they showed up. And really, even if they DID get a diploma WOULD IT MATTER? It's not like 99% percent could ever use it in any real capacity... It ain't about YOU and your diploma, and no one with half a brain would even make the comparison.

They make special agreements for people with disabilities in schools (my kid would be one) allowing her to get a lower score in the areas she is bad at, but for her she will have worked as hard as the people without disabilities. She literally cannot process the numbers straight. You give her one number on a sheet of paper and tell her to read it off, 33% of the time she reads it backwards. Even then she might get the VALUE wrong.
You would have her relegated to unemployable because she is bad at MATH. In actuality, she has a pretty high IQ and it is higher than most kids who get straight A's and decent scores on standard tests. Even with getting a few letters mixed up when she writes, she reads on a college level. You should see the books she trots through at 12 years old. They give them diplomas because they know the skills will even out over time, but they can't keep them in school until they do. As a 20-something, she will be as capable as someone without a learning disorder. Making GEDS harder will just ensure that people like her won't have a chance and will only enhance the lines between haves and have-nots. She should not be punished because of something she CAN'T FIX. Other people should not get extra privileges for being BORN without something that holds them back. It's not like a regular GED is given away like candy anyway, I'm just saying that making it HARDER doesn't serve society any better.

Many states have 3 graduation pathways.

1- Reg- just like anyone else, they pass the graduation exit exam , pass all their courses required

2- Career Readiness- they took all their courses and passed them, but did not pass all portions of the graduation exit exam.

3- Ability- for Certificate of Completion.

1 and 2 they get the same diploma.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2015 1:18 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

It's already hard enough finding a job with my "some college" and a legitimate HS diploma from the 90's..... Give one to anybody who pays 25 bucks and shows up for the exam, how would you even tell me apart from any one of them?

You know what the difference is between "some college" and a high school diploma??

NOT A DAMN THING. You want to be seen as slightly different? FINISH COLLEGE. Or don't. It truly doesn't matter to me. But it might to an employer...

P.S. Most people who graduated in the fifties, for example, would laugh at your "legitimate HS diploma from the 90's" btw.

"Give one to anybody who pays 25 bucks and shows up for the exam, how would you even tell me apart from any one of them?"

It's called TRANSCRIPTS and SCORING.

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