REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ukraine sends more troops to east

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, November 10, 2014 15:19
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Sunday, November 9, 2014 12:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


NOV 5, Kyiv Post

Quote:

Ukraine is rearming and deploying new units to the country's east to counter any attempt by pro-Russian rebels to take over more territory, President Petro Poroshenko has said. Poroshenko said on Tuesday that the units would defend cities still under government control against possible incursions.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/al-jazeera-ukraine-send
s-more-troops-to-east-370666.html


Followed one day later with ...

NOV 6, Kyiv Post

Kyiv denies militants' statements about Ukrainian offensive

Quote:

The forces of the anti-terrorist operation (ATO) are not conducting any offensive operations in eastern Ukraine as the militants are saying, the ATO press senter said.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/kyiv-denies-militants-statemen
ts-about-ukrainian-offensive-370905.html


Given Kiev's history of saying one thing and then saying the opposite shortly afterwards, it's a little hard to credit their information.






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Sunday, November 9, 2014 5:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I saw this headline on the CBS website Nov 7:

Ukraine: Column of Russian tanks crosses border

But the contents proved less than compelling:

KIEV, Ukraine — Ukraine on Friday accused Russia of sending dozens of tanks and other heavy weapons into rebel-controlled eastern regions and said five servicemen were killed in clashes with the rebels.

Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council spokesman Andriy Lysenko said at least 32 tanks, 16 artillery systems and 30 trucks loaded with fighters and ammunition had crossed into eastern Ukraine from Russia. He said three mobile radar units loaded on trucks also came over the border from Russia.

Lysenko provided no specific evidence and it wasn't immediately clear how his agency had obtained the information, since parts of Ukraine's eastern border with Russia have been under rebel control since August.

Ukraine and the West have continuously accused Moscow of fueling a pro-Russian rebellion in eastern Ukraine with troops and weapons. Russia denies those accusations.

Russia's Defense Ministry had no immediate comment on Lysenko's statement, but earlier Friday it rejected Western allegations that Moscow was deploying more troops near the border.

NATO had no immediate confirmation on the latest Ukrainian report.

"We are aware of the reports of Russian troops and tanks crossing the border between Ukraine and Russia and are looking into these reports," said a NATO military officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to talk to the media.

"If this crossing into Ukraine is confirmed, it would be further evidence of Russia's aggression and direct involvement in destabilizing Ukraine," the officer added.

He said the alliance had seen "a recent increase in Russian troops and equipment along the eastern border of Ukraine."

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the movement "if confirmed ... would be another blatant violation of the Minsk agreement," referring to the Sept. 5 pact between Russia, Ukraine and the separatists on a cease-fire and the pullback of heavy weaponry.


Meanwhile the BBC headline was just as alarming:

Ukraine crisis: Tanks 'cross border' from Russia (I really think it needed an exclamation point)

But the text was far less circumspect than CBS's. There was far less emphasis on the 'alleged' and history of unproven accusation:

A column of 32 tanks and 30 trucks has crossed into eastern Ukraine from Russia, the Ukrainian government says.

The trucks were carrying ammunition and fighters, said a military spokesman, but the BBC cannot confirm his report. ...

If the cross-border incursion is confirmed, it will be a further blow to the shaky ceasefire agreed in September, says the BBC's David Stern in Kiev.
'Cancerous tumour'

After crossing the border in the rebel-controlled Luhansk region on Thursday, the Russian column headed for the town of Krasny Luch, said Ukraine's military. "The deployment continues of military equipment and Russian mercenaries to the front lines," said military spokesman Andriy Lysenko.

On Friday, Russian officials responded to an earlier accusation from Canada's foreign minister that it was moving troops towards the Ukrainian border. The defence ministry said the reports were "groundless" and made "without factual proof", according to Russia's Interfax news agency. However, the Kremlin has yet to respond to the Ukrainian government's latest allegations of military deployments.




And the result? I was curious so I went looking. The next day I found this:

"Pentagon Says No Evidence Of Alleged Russian Military Incursion Into Ukraine"

Of course I had to get this from the International Business Times http://www.ibtimes.com/pentagon-says-no-evidence-alleged-russian-milit
ary-incursion-ukraine-1721106
since I couldn't find that story in the usual sources.

So once again we have Kiev the accuser ad nauseam, Britain the cheerleader/ megaphone, the US press compliant, and the facts ... nowhere to be seen in the western press.






SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, November 10, 2014 11:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


According to Mr G, who cites The Interpreter Magazine, Russian and separatist tanks are rolling through eastern Ukraine. (How one can tell the difference is beyond me)
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=13

The Interpreter Magazine is a non-profit organization founded with seed money from the Herzen Foundation.
http://www.interpretermag.com/about-us/

The Alexander Herzen Foundation was dedicated to publishing samizdat manuscripts from dissident Soviets. It was jointly funded by anti-Soviet Dutch and American cold-warriors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Herzen_Foundation

In the article cite by Mr G, there is not a single linked or cited piece of evidence, merely unbased assertions (allegations). In all of the news that I've seen so far, not only has there been NO evidence of Russian tanks moving into Ukraine, both the USA State Department and the USA DoD have specifically said that they have not seen any evidence supporting this claim by Kiev. This bears watching, as evidence may turn up later.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, November 10, 2014 3:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Signy

I think it's a case of numbers. A certain percentage of events will inevitably leak out as hard evidence. It's impossible to hide everything. I would think there might be some Russian mice, given the evidence so far, but certainly no Russian elephants.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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