REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Erratic House Republicans Have Officially Lost It On Obamacare

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, March 14, 2014 22:54
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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 9:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

What do House Republicans want to do with Obamacare? Depends on the day.

Last week, they passed a delay of the law's individual mandate ( http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/03/05/3976076/house-votes-to-delay-oba
macares.html
), pure political showmanship that appealed to the right-wing base that hasn't given up the dream of fully repealing the law.

But Tuesday they're expected to pass three minor tweaks to the law, with Democratic support -- a rare bit of actual governing for the House when it comes to the Affordable Care Act.

Hold on, though. They're not done yet.

Later this week they'll hold payments to doctors under Medicare hostage ( http://dfm.timesherald.com/article/its-time-for-another-showdown-over-
obamacare/bfadc003a066e8ff7ece7218370f548a
) unless Democrats agree to delay Obamacare's individual mandate to buy health insurance, a non-starter with the Democratic Senate and the White House.

If your head's spinning, that's life for House Republicans and the health care reform law. They're all over the place.

It's part of the party's broader struggle to decide exactly what it wants to say about the law that has driven its legislative and political agenda for the last four years.

Meanwhile, more concrete figures about how many Americans are benefitting under Obamacare are continuing to emerge. Gallup estimated Monday that the number of uninsured had dropped by three to four million people since the law's coverage took effect in January ( http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/03/10/Gallup-Uninsured-rate-contin
ues-to-fall-since-Obamacare-rollout/2101394473500
/).

So Republicans are confronting a new political reality: Any more votes for wholesale repeal can be equated with stripping health coverage from millions of people. After years of pledging to roll back the law, they don't seem sure what to do now -- and that's crystallized in recent days in the House's erratic legislating around Obamacare.

Some conservatives haven't given up. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) was still out there last week, pledging, as he always has, to repeal "every word" of the law. But GOP congressional candidates have been more unsteady. A Michigan Senate candidate endorsed her state's decision to expand Medicaid under the law ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/02/27/happy-hour
-roundup-301
/). A North Carolina Senate candidate called the law "a great idea" if only it could be paid for ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/03/04/the-gops-o
bamacare-repeal-dilemma-in-one-quote
/).

The last two weeks of the House's agenda exemplifies this internal debate. Delaying the individual mandate, the heart of Obamacare's insurance market reforms, is never going to happen with President Barack Obama still wielding a veto pen.

But the bills being considered Tuesday likely have a shot. They're relatively minor tweaks, and GOP aides say they're expected to pass with Democratic votes. There's a political element in play -- Republicans want to undermine the Democratic talking point that they've done nothing but obstruct Obamacare -- but this is real legislating.

The three bills would:

•Amend the law's employer mandate so that voluntary emergency services workers won't be counted toward an employer's employee total. In general, employers with fewer than 50 employees are not subject to the mandate.

•Amend the law's employer mandate, in the same way, for employees who receive health coverage through the U.S. Veterans Administration.

•Amend the law's individual mandate, providing an individual religious exemption from the mandate if complying would violate one's "sincerely held religious beliefs."

Senate Democrats and the White House haven't outspokenly opposed the bills, and, with the expected bipartisan support, these proposals seem to have a real chance of actually becoming law. (Though the White House has already signed some other minor tweaks to the law, as House leadership aides will quickly point out.)

But then later this week, the Republicans will vote on a kamikaze plan that would result in doctor payment cuts under Medicare unless Senate Democrats and the White House agree to delay the individual mandate. It's the same kind of political chicken over the law that led to last fall's government shutdown, when the blame largely fell to the GOP.

At some point, Republicans have to make a decision. The growing number of people covered under Obamacare will demand it, sooner or later. Either they continue with political showmanship over the law, passing bills that are sure to dead-end in the parts of government controlled by Democrats, or they recognize Obamacare is here to stay and figure out how to fix it to make it more palatable from their point of view.

This week's votes in the House suggests they still haven't figured out which route to take. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/house-gop-obamacare-schizophrenia


And let's not forget that their recent failure in attempting to come up with an alternative "replacement": http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-obamacare-alternative
-20140203,0,5076292.story#axzz2vf3vPtS1

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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 9:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That one WaPo article pretty much nails it:
Quote:

The GOP’s Obamacare repeal dilemma, in one quote

The other day I noted that Thom Tillis, the expected GOP candidate for Senate in North Carolina, has been struggling to explain his stance on Obamacare — he knows repeal is a non-starter because the goals of Obamacare remain popular, but isn’t willing to embrace any alternatives. Tillis’s equivocations — which capture the problems with the GOP repeal stance in general — have taken a pounding in the North Carolina press.

Now North Carolina Dems have unearthed a radio interview Tillis gave which again illuminates the problem here. It contains this wonderful quote about the ACA:

“It’s a great idea that can’t be paid for.”

In the interview, from February, Tillis insists he’s gung ho for repeal, saying: “If we could effectively nullify and repeal Obamacare in North Carolina, we would do it.” Then, asked whether he supports home state Senator Richard Burr’s replace plan — the leading GOP alternative — Tillis demurs. But he confirms he supports “dealing with preexisting conditions” and “dealing with some sort of safety net for people with catastrophic loss,” adding that “Republicans want to solve the problem” and that “we’re not just saying No to Obamacare.” Then he says:

“I think there’s a lot of things we can do if we focus on a systemic approach to eliminating the bad, and the majority of the stuff that is in Obamacare is bad, because it’s not fiscally sustainable. It’s a great idea that can’t be paid for.”

Since then, Tillis has continued to refrain from endorsing the Burr alternative. After all, Tillis’ Tea Party primary opponent, Greg Brannon, continues to attack him for allowing some Obamacare goals are reasonable. Says Brannon: “Tell career politician Thom Tillis that OBAMACARE IS WRONG, PERIOD!”

I’ve already detailed here and here why this sort of thing suggests serious flaws in the GOP repeal stance. Tillis’ quote is particularly noteworthy, though. Republicans want credit for embracing the good stuff in Obamacare (since repeal is unpopular and risks signaling to swing voters that Republicans just want to go back to the old system) while also bashing the overall law as #Obummer Big Gummint Spending run amok, which they are claiming as their mandate in the midterms, which tend to be about the president in office.

But as Jonathan Cohn has explained, if you want the good stuff in Obamacare, it has to be paid for. Which the law does, while reducing the deficit.

To be clear, Senator Kay Hagan’s approval has dropped, and in an overall sense the fundamentals are such that Republicans may be able to win the Senate even as multiple GOP candidates remain vague on “repeal and replace.” But as enrollment continues to mount, making “repeal” even less tenable, this balance could prove tougher and tougher to pull off without descending into utter gibberish. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/03/04/the-gops-o
bamacare-repeal-dilemma-in-one-quote/





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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 9:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


It has to be repealed. It will be, one way or another.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:17 PM

STORYMARK


And Romney will win with double-digits.

At this point - a prediction by rappy means the opposite is almost assured.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


" May not have been the winning side, still not convinced it was the wrong one..."

Barry keeps pushing back implementation because it's such an awesome bill? Hell no. Even the unions are against it.

It will fail. It already has failed.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:04 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey Mark:
Quote:

He may not change, but the conversation can - if we decide to do it.

Right now all we've done is segue from every thread becoming about him - to every thread becoming a series of pics and comments about how we're not gong to let it be about him.

Just actually ignore the little shit. He can keep spewing - but we don't have to let him dominate EVERY GODDAMNED conversation.

Maybe we need some sort of designation. The first person to acknowledge any of that shit is the "sucker of the day" or something.



'Zat make you Sucker of the Day or Something?




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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:10 PM

STORYMARK


I suppose so. Sometimes - I just can't resist the urge to make fun of these baggin' buffoons.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:15 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey, your time to waste, my man, be my guest. But after so many years, I should think it would get kinda boring...

Especially since the entire thread is about the fact that the Republicans (well, the ones with a few brain cells to rub together, anyway) have GIVEN UP trying to "kill" the ACA. Not only is he too brainwashed to read, he doesn't even THINK, obviously...

So really,




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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:18 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:







With him, I always assume both.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:24 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I mean seriously:

"It's official: Republicans are done trying to kill ObamaCare"; http://theweek.com/article/index/255241/its-official-republicans-are-d
one-trying-to-kill-obamacare


"Republicans Begin Laying Ground Work to Walk Away From Obamacare Opposition"; http://www.redstate.com/2014/01/16/republicans-begin-ground-work-to-wa
lk-away-from-obamacare-opposition
/

That's RED STATE, mind you...Red State...

And from Moderate Voice: "Are Republicans finally giving up their mission to kill ObamaCare?"; http://themoderatevoice.com/185726/are-republicans-finally-giving-up-t
heir-mission-to-kill-obamacare
/

Even FauxNews:
Quote:

Memo to Republicans, rework ObamaCare -- don't kill it -- and you'll win big

Republicans should stop cheering for ObamaCare to fail. It may be dreadful, but going back to what we had before is not possible. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/04/memo-to-republicans-rework-o
bamacare-dont-kill-it-and-youll-win-big
/



To respond to our trolls' desperate cries of "It's GOT to fail! It already HAS failed" is an exercise in futility. They live and breathe the Ted Cruz credo: "Keep doing what you're doing and you'll keep getting attention", and nothing else. So why even notice them?


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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 10:35 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


It is kind'a funny that the Obama Administration has done more to delay the implementation of the ACA than the Republicans.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, really weird, isn't it, that after having to fight like HELL for so many years to try and provide Americans with SOME kind of way to afford health care, the Democrats would do everything they could to make it work, while the Republicans do nothing but try to kill it. What a shock.


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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:36 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
It is kind'a funny that the Obama Administration has done more to delay the implementation of the ACA than the Republicans.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."



Yes, the Dems have been working to improve a faulty system, while the GOP does nothing but complain.

Funny that you see that as a plus for the GOP...




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:48 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Of course they do...it's all about taking from the poor to give to the rich, why wouldn't they? Corporate welfare good, public welfare bad. Safety nets are obviously for schmucks, and the poor should just stop being poor; if they can't afford health care, they should just quietly die and shut up about it!


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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:39 PM

WHOZIT


An unpopular Republican won a house seat in the 13th dist, of Florida over a popular Democrat Tuesday. He was outspent 4-1 and ran an awful campaign but all he talked about was Barrycare and won. YOU libs have and will keep on losing it on Barrycare. It's too bad I have to wait until November to LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN!!

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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:53 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
An unpopular Republican won a house seat in the 13th dist, of Florida over a popular Democrat Tuesday. He was outspent 4-1 and ran an awful campaign but all he talked about was Barrycare and won. YOU libs have and will keep on losing it on Barrycare. It's too bad I have to wait until November to LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN!!


Yeah, the Democrat was expected to win and didn't, but the absurd part here is that $ 11 million dollars was spent for a seat that will be up for grabs again in less than 8 months. Just seems like a huge waste of money and effort for 8 months in a meaningless House seat.

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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:17 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
An unpopular Republican won a house seat in the 13th dist, of Florida over a popular Democrat Tuesday. He was outspent 4-1 and ran an awful campaign but all he talked about was Barrycare and won. YOU libs have and will keep on losing it on Barrycare. It's too bad I have to wait until November to LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN!!


Yeah, the Democrat was expected to win and didn't, but the absurd part here is that $ 11 million dollars was spent for a seat that will be up for grabs again in less than 8 months. Just seems like a huge waste of money and effort for 8 months in a meaningless House seat.

The Kochs got money to burn.

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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 10:34 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
It is kind'a funny that the Obama Administration has done more to delay the implementation of the ACA than the Republicans.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."



Yes, the Dems have been working to improve a faulty system, while the GOP does nothing but complain.

Funny that you see that as a plus for the GOP...



Interesting that you consider the ACA a faulty system.

Maybe if the Democrats had read it before they decided to pass it before they found out what's in it...


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:26 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I believe by "faulty system", he was referring to what we had BEFORE the AFA. You know, people dying for lack of health care, people losing their homes and everything because of expensive health care, people being dropped when they get sick, unable to get insurance, etc., etc.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/new-health-rankings-
of-17-nations-us-is-dead-last/267045
/

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064

Not a single person here has said the ACA is perfect, or even great, but it's a start...THAT's the point. Maybe if the Republicans had put one ounce of effort into trying to fix the problem, instead of fighting tooth and nail to keep thing the way they were--which has been BAD--for so many years, they could have worked together to come up with something better, eh?

I know: Inconceivable.


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Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:24 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw
Yeah, the Democrat was expected to win and didn't, but the absurd part here is that $ 11 million dollars was spent for a seat that will be up for grabs again in less than 8 months. Just seems like a huge waste of money and effort for 8 months in a meaningless House seat.

The Kochs got money to burn.


Yes they do, but in this election the Democrats spent $9 million while the Republicans spent only $2 million. Plus VP Biden and ex-President Clinton both campaigned for the Dem. candidate, and she still lost. When she previously ran for Governor, she won this district over the Republican. The only new political factor is the Obamacare issue. She ran in support of it, and the Republican ran against. I don't know if this necessarily means anything 8 months ahead of the mid-terms, but it is interesting.

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Thursday, March 13, 2014 9:00 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I believe by "faulty system", he was referring to what we had BEFORE the AFA.



Not in the context of the comment he was responding to, which related to the changes and delays being made to implementation of the ACA by the Administration.

Maybe Story should just stick to trolling, since when he tries actual discussion, he doesn't do so well.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, March 14, 2014 3:04 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Not in the context of the comment he was responding to, which related to the changes and delays being made to implementation of the ACA by the Administration.



Ill speak to my own meaning, thank you.

I was referring to both, the prior system, and the ACA - which Ive said many times is a flawed program.

Why do you feel the need to pretend otherwise???

Flawed is still better than the JACK SHIT offered up by the GOP.


Quote:

Maybe Story should just stick to trolling, since when he tries actual discussion, he doesn't do so well.




Says the chickenshit who once again avoids the point of a post to quibble semantics - one day maybe you'll display the courage you seem to want to imply with your avatar there, chief. If you ever really wore that uniform, you disgrace it now.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, March 14, 2014 3:21 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Marky, internet tough guy.

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Friday, March 14, 2014 4:03 PM

STORYMARK


Nobody - internet pussy.

Your thinking that expecting people to stand by their words is being a "toughguy" pretty succinctly displays how devoid of actual thought you are.



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, March 14, 2014 4:06 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


I know you are but what am I?

Very adult response there Marky.

Edited to add:

Nice editing Marky. What, can't stand by your own words?

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Friday, March 14, 2014 6:53 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Ill speak to my own meaning, thank you.



Maybe you should address that to NIKI.

Hardly our fault you can't write a simple, clear, declarative sentence.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, March 14, 2014 10:54 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That's a weird response. Obviously we were both half right, he was referring both to the state of health care prior to the ACA and to the Dems attempting to fix the problems with the ACA. Your inference about it being "interesting" that he recognizes the ACA is a faulty system was 100% inaccurate, as nobody here has ever said it WASN'T faulty, and at least I had the decency to say "I BELIEVE he is...", as opposed to flatly interpreting his words, and then going on to INSIST on that interpretation in a nasty way.

Yet he should address his remarks to me. Weird. Nasty, and not surprising, but weird.


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