REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The United States is not fomenting revolution in the Ukrai .... oops!

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, February 10, 2014 11:58
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VIEWED: 1464
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Friday, February 7, 2014 3:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Victoria Jane Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs) was leaked talking with Geoffrey Pyatt (US Ambassador to Ukraine) on how to decide the Ukraine's future- Who should be in government (not the current elected President, Viktor Yanukovich, of course!), who should be out, how to get the UN to push the current President out. Oh, and, BTW "Fuck the EU!"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/07/us-ukraine-idUSBREA151QL2014
0207


This is such an important item that's it's all over the MSM. (not)

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Friday, February 7, 2014 3:40 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This is such an important item that's it's all over the MSM. (not)



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/germans-not-amused-by-nuland-gaffe
/2014/02/07/66885a02-900d-11e3-878e-d76656564a01_story.html?hpid=z2


http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/06/top-u-s-diplomat-launches-f-b
omb-on-eu-in-leaked-recorded-conversation
/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/07/world/europe/ukraine.html?hp




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, February 7, 2014 4:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh of course, in small letters.




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Friday, February 7, 2014 11:15 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh of course, in small letters.




Oh, gosh. The Washington Post, CNN, and the New York times. All puppets of the Administration. Just like the BBC is a puppet for U.S. conservatives.

Sure you're not channeling NIki?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, February 7, 2014 11:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yes, the WashPost video (on the video page no where NEAR the front page) shows up after

Opening Ceremonies ‘spectacular’
5 Olympians turned politicians
Fans arrive for Olympic opening ceremonies
3 questions for America Ferrera
Post Originals
Taliban claims it has U.S. military dog (00:51)
Jay Leno gets musical sendoff from Billy Crystal (00:29)
Clooney, Damon talk Hitler and ‘Monuments Men’ (02:19)
The perfect ski jump (02:00)
As states legalize weed, feds legalize hemp (1:00)
Coca Cola It's Beautiful (01:00)
Olympic athlete gets an assist from underwear company (02:15)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/germans-not-amused-by-nuland-gaffe
/2014/02/07/66885a02-900d-11e3-878e-d76656564a01_story.html?hpid=z2



Yep, it's right up there with all the important stuff.


CNN - even further down


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http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/06/top-u-s-diplomat-launches-f-b
omb-on-eu-in-leaked-recorded-conversation
/




And the NYTimes article - so buried you can't even find it unless you have the link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/07/world/europe/ukraine.html?hp



You gotta give the MSM credit, they really went out of their way to highlight important news.



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Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:04 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yes, the WashPost video (on the video page no where NEAR the front page) shows up after...



It's on the front page of the WaPo web site.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/regional/

You're such an idiot.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


nope. not there.

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Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's under Germans react to.. because, yanno, it's more important that Merkel is in a snit than the US is being puppet-master to the New Ukraine.


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Saturday, February 8, 2014 11:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I thought this was an interesting take
Quote:

A few short months after Putin cornered the US state department into a disastrous foreign relations dead end with the false flag Syrian escalation which achieved none of the predetermined nat-gas-to-Europe pipeline ambitions, instead alienating the US from both staunch allies Saudi Arabia and Israel, the Russian president has just managed to inflict yet more pain on US foreign policy this time by infuriating (even more) a core US ally in Europe - Angela Merkel.

Just two days after the phone recording of Victoria Nuland emerged in which she not only made it explicitly clear it was the US who was the puppetmaster behind the Ukranian opposition with the traditional CIA tactics as was expected all along, but also explained just how the US feels toward the EU with the now infamous "Fuck the EU" comment, Angela Merkel called the obscene remark "absolutely unacceptable."

... The biggest loser here, however, continues to be the Ukraine, whose people are facing a cold winter without assurances they will have Russian nat gas, and a government that is a chess piece in an ongoing power play between Europe and Russia, now that the CIA has taken a back seat.

... just like Greece has become a money "tolling" intermediary for the ECB and German banks, in which Europe pretends to bail out the crushed country when in reality it is just funding debt payments to its own banks, so the Ukraine has now become an intermediary, in which loan payments from Russia go to pay... Russia's Gazprom. And in the process Russia pulls the Ukraine from the European sphere of influence and back into that of the New Normal USSR.

Game, set, match Putin. Again.

Couple of interesting points, I was going to research but ran out of time.

The Ukraine is in deep debt because it owes megabucks to Gazprom, Russia's state-controlled natural gas producer. The Ukraine is paying very high prices for nat-gas, higher than any other importing nation and far higher than Germany. http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2013-11-16/opinions/ukraine-and
-russia-battle-over-gas-prices-3201138690
/ But this disastrous price setting contract was negotiated -not by any Russian-lover but by Yulia Tymoshenko, former opposition Prime Minister of the Ukraine and cause celebre of the rioting opposition.

If I had to discern a pattern in there, I might say that Russia punished the Ukrainian opposition by jacking up gas prices. That predictably destabilized the economy, and caused the opposition government to fall. Once a pro-Russian was in place (Yanukovych), Russia relaxed its debt-and-gas-price hold on the Ukrainian economy. The idea was (I think) that the new prices would improve the economy in time for Yanukovych to win re-election in 2015.

Seeing the trend, smarting from the Syria debacle, and understanding that Russia deployed its Syria-bound heavy warships from a leased Ukrainian port on the Black Sea, the United States decided put the Ukraine on the front burner and bring down the current Yanukovych government post-haste.

Hubby says that I'm seeing patterns that don't exist. Still, it makes an interesting story which ties all of the events together.


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Saturday, February 8, 2014 11:52 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Germans react to"

Still not there.

That's a problem with online publications. You never step into the same stream twice.

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Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, that is the blessing of the "news cycle". Keep churning the headlines and anything serious quickly disappears.


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Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So, the audio was " leaked " ? How ? Shouldn't we also be asking about THAT minor detail ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, February 8, 2014 12:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What do YOU think, laser-brain??? Just follow the breadcrumbs ... or read the links ... I'm sure you'll figure it out. Maybe.


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Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:05 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Didn't see anything from the 1st link.

Video from the 2nd link suggests the US thinks the Russians " leaked " the audio. Though no where do I hear any shrill cries of wire tapping.

Quote:

The recording was uploaded on YouTube on February 4 by an anonymous user named "Maidan Puppets," and had been viewed more than 11,000 times as of Thursday. The name of the user appears to be a reference to Maidan Square in Kiev, where protestors have fought the government and Russian accusations that the protestors are puppets of the West. The call also was posted on the Kyiv Post, a leading Ukrainian newspaper.



Speculation in the above quote from the link, but ... IDK. Sure sounds like a bold move, who ever was behind it.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Apparently they used a smart phone in audio mode. Since audio is not encrypted (but everything else is) that phone use is potentially a fireable offense.

So, back on-topic:

The Ukraine is in deep debt because it owes megabucks to Gazprom, Russia's state-controlled natural gas producer. The Ukraine is paying very high prices for nat-gas, higher than any other importing nation and far higher than Germany. http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2013-11-16/opinions/ukraine-and
-russia-battle-over-gas-prices-3201138690/ But this disastrous price setting contract was negotiated -not by any Russian-lover but by Yulia Tymoshenko, former opposition Prime Minister of the Ukraine and current cause celebre of the rioting opposition.

If I had to discern a pattern in there, I might say that Russia punished the Ukrainian opposition by jacking up gas prices. That predictably destabilized the economy, and caused the opposition government to fall. Once a pro-Russian was in place (Yanukovych), Russia relaxed its debt-and-gas-price hold on the Ukrainian economy. The idea was (I think) that the new prices would improve the economy in time for Yanukovych to win re-election in 2015.

Seeing the trend, smarting from the Syria debacle, and understanding that Russia deployed its Syria-bound heavy warships from a leased Ukrainian port on the Black Sea, the United States decided put the Ukraine on the front burner and bring down the current Yanukovych government post-haste.

Hubby says that I'm seeing patterns that don't exist. Still, it makes an interesting story which ties all of the events together.



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Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently they used a smart phone in audio mode. Since audio is not encrypted (but everything else is) that phone use is potentially a fireable offense.



In THIS administration ? HA!!

Quote:


So, back on-topic:

The Ukraine is in deep debt because it owes megabucks to Gazprom, Russia's state-controlled natural gas producer. The Ukraine is paying very high prices for nat-gas, higher than any other importing nation and far higher than Germany. http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2013-11-16/opinions/ukraine-and
-russia-battle-over-gas-prices-3201138690/ But this disastrous price setting contract was negotiated -not by any Russian-lover but by Yulia Tymoshenko, former opposition Prime Minister of the Ukraine and current cause celebre of the rioting opposition.

If I had to discern a pattern in there, I might say that Russia punished the Ukrainian opposition by jacking up gas prices. That predictably destabilized the economy, and caused the opposition government to fall. Once a pro-Russian was in place (Yanukovych), Russia relaxed its debt-and-gas-price hold on the Ukrainian economy. The idea was (I think) that the new prices would improve the economy in time for Yanukovych to win re-election in 2015.

Seeing the trend, smarting from the Syria debacle, and understanding that Russia deployed its Syria-bound heavy warships from a leased Ukrainian port on the Black Sea, the United States decided put the Ukraine on the front burner and bring down the current Yanukovych government post-haste.

Hubby says that I'm seeing patterns that don't exist. Still, it makes an interesting story which ties all of the events together.





While it would be easy for me to side w/ " hubby " on all this, in all honesty, I can't. And that's the problem with these sorts of things... most sane, rational , educated folks would simply look at the surface and say " Why would they intentionally DO such a thing ? " meaning the leaders, and all the antics they do to move heaven and earth to position themselves ,regardless of how it impacts the lives of 1000's or millions of people. Hell, Stalin allowed millions to starve, just to make a ideological point ! ( coincidence rears its ugly head again ) It's hard for " little people " to comprehend folks actually think in those terms, I suppose.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, February 10, 2014 11:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, there is more to the story than just that.

The EU wants the Ukraine in it's stable of nations, but not all THAT much. The Ukraine at the moment is a financial and political basket case. And the Ukraine would not be well-served to join the EU, if you look at the results of other Eastern European nations which joined th EU: shuttered factories and high unemployment.


Quote:

Eastern Europe braced for a violent 'spring of discontent'

Riots and street battles are set to spread through Bulgaria, Romania and the Baltic states as inflation, unemployment and racism fuel tension, reports Jason Burke

Eastern Europe is heading for a violent "spring of discontent", according to experts in the region who fear that the global economic downturn is generating a dangerous popular backlash on the streets.

Hit increasingly hard by the financial crisis, countries such as Bulgaria, Romania and the Baltic states face deep political destabilisation and social strife, as well as an increase in racial tension.

Last week protesters were tear-gassed as they threw rocks at police outside parliament in Vilnius, capital of Lithuania, in a protest against an austerity package including tax rises and benefit cuts.

In Sofia, Bulgaria, 150 people were arrested and at least 30 injured in widespread violence. More than 100 were detained after street battles between security forces and demonstrators in the Latvian capital, Riga.

According to the most recent estimates, the economies of some eastern European countries, after posting double-digit growth for nearly a decade, will contract by up to 5% this year, with inflation peaking at more than 13%. Many fear Romania, which joined the European Union with Bulgaria in 2007, may be the next to suffer major breakdowns in public order.

"In a few months there will be people in the streets, that much is certain," said Luca Niculescu, a media executive in Bucharest. "Every day we hear about another factory shutting or moving overseas. There is a new government that has not shown itself too effective. We have got used to very high growth rates. It's an explosive cocktail."


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/18/eu-riots-vilinius

Quote:

Think the E.U. Is Great for Eastern Europe? This Country Could Change Your Mind

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116035/bulgarias-european-union-mem
bership-has-hurt-country


Germany had serious heartburn while digesting East Germany. The Germans are already fed up with the demands of Greece, Spain, etc. It's unlikely that they would want to make the serious investments necessary to bring ALL of the EU nations up to their productivity standards. And if the Ukraine is swallowed as an exploitable market for efficiently-produced EU goods, then the Ukraine won't be a winner from inclusion, merely a captive blood-donor. That is why only about half of Ukrainians want to join the EU, while a significant minority (about35%) is against it.

The nation which seems to have the greatest interest in the Ukraine joining the EU is the nation farthest away from the action: the United States. We want Ukraine in the EU to deny Russia a port to the Mediterranean, irrespective of the financial and political damage that might occur to the Ukraine.

So, yes, leaders do think like that- including ours.








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