REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

10 Reasons to revisit marijuana policy now

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, June 21, 2012 02:31
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Saturday, June 16, 2012 11:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, I know, favorite topic. But it HAS been in the news, so that makes it a RWEd. For me, anyway.
Quote:

Culturally, marijuana has become hardly more than a punch line. But in reality, U.S. marijuana policy is no joke; it causes great harm, both directly and indirectly. Here are the 10 most important reasons our marijuana laws deserve serious reconsideration

Americans \increasingly favor legalization of pot

For the first time ever, a solid majority of Americans supports legalizing marijuana for recreational use: 56%, according to the most recent Rasmussen poll. Support for legalization has been growing steadily since the 1990s; in 1994, just 25% were in favor.

In November 2010, California residents voted on a ballot initiative to legalize the possession and sale of marijuana. Although the measure failed to pass — 46% to 54% — the fact that the initiative made it onto the ballot and garnered that much support was itself historic. Indeed, it was fear of the initiative’s passage that led then California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to decriminalize possession of up to 1 oz. of pot shortly before the vote — a move that was intended to bleed voter support from the ballot question. Had it passed, California would have been the first state to legalize the drug outright. In 2012, Colorado and Washington State will vote on total legalization.

Because support for legalization tracks closely with age, change would seem inevitable in the long run. The most recent Gallup poll found that 62% of people ages 18 to 29 favor full legalization, compared with 31% of senior citizens. As far as medical marijuana goes, Americans are nearly unanimous in their approval: 70% or more support it.

Supporting Marijuana Reform Is No Longer Political Suicide

Some politicians are slowly discovering that lingering fears about being labeled “soft on crime” for supporting marijuana reform are unwarranted.

In May, two Democrats upset Establishment favorites by running in favor of marijuana reform. Beto O’Rourke, who favors the total legalization of marijuana, won the primary to run for Congress from Texas’ 16th Congressional District, a safely Democratic district that borders Mexico’s drug-violence-ridden Ciudad Juarez. Ellen Rosenblum won the primary for state attorney general in Oregon and has no Republican challenger; she beat her Democratic opponent largely on a platform supporting medical marijuana and opposing federal interference with it.

On June 13, Rhode Island became the 15th state to decriminalize marijuana. Governor Lincoln Chafee signed a bill making possession of small amounts of pot no worse than a parking ticket.

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg have both recently called for the decriminalization of open possession of marijuana. Possession itself was decriminalized in the state in 1977, but due to a quirk of state law that makes it a crime to show the drug visibly, people are still being arrested after police, following “stop and frisk” policies, order them to empty their pockets.

While national politicians remain mired in late-’90s thinking that suggests supporting the drug war is the only viable position, national polling trends (especially by age) and state-level political movements indicate that serious consideration of marijuana reform makes sense.

Teens Are More Likely to Smoke Pot than Cigarettes

All the major national surveys of youth behavior show that, for the first time ever, teens are more likely to be users of marijuana than cigarettes.

For example, the latest Monitoring the Future survey by the National Institute on Drug Abuse found that in 2011, while 19% of high school seniors reported smoking at least one cigarette in the previous month, 23% said they had smoked marijuana at least once over the same time period. Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Youth Risk Behavior Survey were virtually identical.

Cigarettes or marijuana: one of these products contains the most addictive known drug and kills about 50% of its users; the other one is illegal.

Marijuana Doesn’t Increase Risk of Lung Cancer, Mental Illness or Death

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2012/06/14/10-reasons-to-revisit-marijuana-
policy-now/#marijuana-doesnt-cause-lung-cancer-or-death#ixzz1xzeHxyTe


A recent report by the British Lung Foundation made the headline-grabbing claim that the risk of developing cancer was 20 times higher per marijuana joint than per cigarette. However, the scientific data simply do not support this contention.

Dr. Donald Tashkin, professor of medicine at University of California, Los Angeles, is among the foremost researchers studying the effects of marijuana on the lungs. His 2006 study, one of the largest to look at marijuana use and lung and upper-airway cancers, found that the “association of these cancers with marijuana, even long-term or heavy use, is not strong and may be below practically detectable limits.”

A larger, longer-term study published in 2012 by a separate group of researchers showed that marijuana had no detrimental effect on lung function. Tashkin, who was not involved in the study, called it “well conducted” and said the results confirmed his own findings.

A smaller recent study did find a link between extremely heavy marijuana use (at least a joint a day for 10 years) and lung cancer, but that study suffered several methodological flaws. For one, Tashkin explains, it included very few people who actually smoked marijuana heavily, making its results “imprecise.” (Unlike the average cigarette smoker, the average marijuana smoker doesn’t smoke daily — let alone daily for 10 years or longer.) Other researchers, pointing out the study’s various limitations, agreed that its results could have occurred by chance alone.

The tobacco literature, in contrast, is unequivocal: smoking increases the odds of developing lung cancer by a factor of at least 9.

It’s possible that marijuana may increase the risk of death from other causes, but so far, research hasn’t been able to offer any evidence of that. Again, in contrast, the research does show that smoking cigarettes is clearly linked with a doubling to tripling of heart disease and stroke risk.

If mental health is your concern, there is some evidence that marijuana can hasten or worsen schizophrenia in those who are predisposed to it. But over the past five decades, as marijuana use has increased, rates of schizophrenia haven’t risen in tandem. Further, there’s no evidence that current marijuana policy reduces the risk to those who may be vulnerable to developing the disorder: the 3,500% increase in the drug-fighting budget since the 1970s hasn’t stopped the majority of boomers and succeeding generations from smoking pot. Moreover, legalizing the drug could offer a way to reduce psychosis risk; by regulating the chemical balance in marijuana, its safety could be controlled. That can’t be accomplished if the drug is illegal.

Medical-Marijuana Dispensaries Aren’t Linked with Crime

Most people with personal experience using marijuana recognize the absurdity of the claim that smoking pot can turn ordinary folks into criminals. But the possibility still lingers in some Americans’ minds — as demonstrated by the media coverage of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, whose body was found to contain marijuana after his death. Martin, who was black, was shot to death by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood-watch volunteer who put forth Martin’s possible drug use to suggest it made the teen violent and justified his killing.

A recent study of medical-marijuana dispensaries should help put this canard connecting marijuana and crime to rest. Like previous studies, it found no association between the number of dispensaries in a neighborhood and rates of violent crime or property crime.

The number of outlets that sell alcohol in an area, however — even after controlling for demographic factors and poverty — is consistently linked with rates of violent crime, according to the research.

Most Drug Arrests Are for Marijuana Possession

The No. 1 reason people get arrested in the U.S. is for violating drug law. More people are arrested for drug-related crime than for any violent crime, including drunken assaults. Of all drug-related arrests, 82% are for possession, and more than half of those are for marijuana. Basically, the war on drugs winds up being focused on marijuana possession, despite the fact that it is less addictive than other illegal drugs and is not pharmacologically linked with violence or overdose the way alcohol is.

These arrests not only take up an enormous amount of police time but also are extremely expensive: one estimate put the costs at $10.7 billion. And for what? There is no relationship between arrest rates and rates of drug use or addiction.

Marijuana Enforcement Targets Blacks and Hispanics

Although African Americans use and sell marijuana at the same or lower rate as white people, they are three to six times more likely to be arrested for it, depending on when they get caught and where they live, according to a study of FBI data between 1980 and 2007 by Human Rights Watch.

In 2011 in New York City alone, there were nearly 51,000 marijuana arrests — 87% of them among blacks and Hispanics, a rate that is completely out of proportion with the city’s racial makeup.

Drug convictions are often a gateway to a life of crime: they label young people as criminals, disrupt their education, expose them to more serious types of crime during incarceration and reduce their odds of employment. Because more minorities get arrested for marijuana, they are disproportionately exposed to this vicious cycle, which often ends in long prison terms and loss of voting rights. Consequently, enforcement of U.S. drug law causes far greater harm to health and well-being — especially among minorities — than marijuana itself.

New Uses for Medical Marijuana

Recent research confirms the effectiveness of marijuana in treating opioid-resistant cancer pain and the spasticity associated with multiple sclerosis. Drugs similar to THC, a major active ingredient in cannabis, also show promise for preventing and treating posttraumatic stress disorder. Further, a recent clinical trial showed that CBD, another component of cannabis, can treat schizophrenia as effectively as standard prescription drugs, without the same side effects of movement disorders or weight gain, which can increase diabetes risk. Finally, both THC and CBD seem to have cancer-fighting effects — including, ironically, against lung cancer.

The illegality of marijuana, however — along with the fact that the plant cannot be patented — is a big barrier to pharmaceutical development of these promising drugs.

Real Marijuana Is Probably Safer

The rise of “legal highs,” sold under names like Spice, K2 or the much-vilified “bath salts,” has got legislators desperately trying to ban them. Meanwhile, illegal chemists are rapidly developing substitutes that aren’t covered under these bans — a race that’s driven in part by the illegality of marijuana.

Looking at these drugs’ chemical makeup, it’s plausible that because their active ingredients — the THC-like drugs that can trigger psychosis — aren’t balanced with CBD, which induces natural marijuana’s mellowing effect, they may be more likely to cause psychotic reactions. Fake pot also tends to be more potent than the real stuff, which could increase risks to users. But although they’ve been fingered for causing violence, no one knows what the short- or long-term effects of these substances really are because they haven’t been tested on humans.

Meanwhile, humanity has had thousands of years of experience with marijuana itself, which, while not harmless, certainly doesn’t carry the risks of taking a drug fresh from the lab.

A Judge's Plea

In a moving op-ed published in May in the New York Times, Justice Gustin Reichbach of the New York State supreme court described how medical marijuana was the only drug that helped ease his nausea and allowed him to eat or sleep during the brutal treatment for his pancreatic cancer.

He concluded:Because criminalizing an effective medical technique affects the fair administration of justice, I feel obliged to speak out as both a judge and a cancer patient suffering with a fatal disease. I implore the governor and the Legislature of New York, always considered a leader among states, to join the forward and humane thinking of 16 other states and pass the medical marijuana bill this year. Medical science has not yet found a cure, but it is barbaric to deny us access to one substance that has proved to ameliorate our suffering.Reichbach did not discuss recreational use of marijuana, but his plea eloquently demonstrates why the federal law against medical marijuana is senseless.
In a moving op-ed published in May in the New York Times, Justice Gustin Reichbach of the New York State supreme court described how medical marijuana was the only drug that helped ease his nausea and allowed him to eat or sleep during the brutal treatment for his pancreatic cancer.

Reichbach did not discuss recreational use of marijuana, but his plea eloquently demonstrates why the federal law against medical marijuana is senseless.


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Saturday, June 16, 2012 2:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And no matter how many valid reasons there are to revisit marijuana policy, there's two big reasons that will trump them all and keep lawmakers from making any substantive moves:

Money and power. There is money to be made in the drug trade AND in the war against drugs, and no agency like the DEA is going to willingly cede back one iota of the power they've been given by the drug war.

Add in the power and money that flows through DC to support and influence the war on pot, and the money and power that come to the prison-industrial complex, and toss in the timber and paper industries and the chemical industry, not to even mention big pharma's vested interests, and pretty much any shot at rethinking our marijuana policy become nothing more than a hazy, muddled pipe dream.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 16, 2012 2:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And no matter how many valid reasons there are to revisit marijuana policy, there's two big reasons that will trump them all and keep lawmakers from making any substantive moves:

Money and power. There is money to be made in the drug trade AND in the war against drugs, and no agency like the DEA is going to willingly cede back one iota of the power they've been given by the drug war.

Add in the power and money that flows through DC to support and influence the war on pot, and the money and power that come to the prison-industrial complex, and toss in the timber and paper industries and the chemical industry, not to even mention big pharma's vested interests, and pretty much any shot at rethinking our marijuana policy become nothing more than a hazy, muddled pipe dream.



Normally I'd agree with you here Kwick, but I think things are changing. People know the war on drugs is unwinnable and is really just BS. People today are beginning to think a lot more practically and they want to see their government start to run a tight ship since they're now being forced to do the same with no easy credit and underwater mortgages abound.

Not only would legalizing marajuana save the tax payers boatloads of wasted cash, but you can bet your ass that the government will be taxing it like they do cigarettes. They'd probably come in pre-rolled packs that would be easily identifiable by law enforcement if you got pulled over and your car was searched. If you've got the legitimate MJ that taxes were paid on, you'd be in the clear. If you had a bag of untaxed black market stuff though, it would be confiscated and you'd be fined. It would no longer be a criminal offense, but a tax-avoidance offence.

I don't think legalization is that far off. The only problem with the concept of legalization then is that the taxes are going to be so high that there still will be a thriving black market. Instead of having DEA agents going after pot smokers, it would be IRS agents going after black market pot smokers.


In any case, drug testing at jobs for pot is here to stay. So really, if you want a good job, even though it would be legal to smoke it, you wouldn't be able to without having a stash of synthetic urine on you in case you ever got pulled in for random drug testing. If your company does hair follicle testing, you're basically screwed.


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Saturday, June 16, 2012 4:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Can you show me any of the poor, cash-strapped red states that are building fewer prisons, closing prisons, or stopping prosecutions of marijuana cases?

If not, I'd say the power and money cards still trump the idea of the unwinnable war.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 16, 2012 4:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


It won't happen overnight, but as Niki's article states, this is the first time where a majority of American's support legalization for whatever reason. Hell, there were more "popular" votes in this poll than there were for Gore vs Bush Jr.

I really think it will happen in the next decade, but like I said before, the taxes are probably going to all but nullify the economic boon we were hoping for, as well as any hope of stamping out the underground movement.

The truth is, it would be MUCH easier for me to grow weed in my garden than it would to grow tobacco on a scale of "is it worth it?". My 4'x4' garden could supply me with enough weed to smoke for half a year for basically free. If we're talking tobacco though, well.... I smoke a hell of a lot more cigarettes in a day than I ever did bud back when I indulged. A 4'x4' garden might net me about 1 week worth of cigarettes.



THAT is the only TRUE reason we might not see it legalized. Almost ANYBODY in ANY climate can grow one particular strand or hybrid if it wasn't illegal. And as potent as the stuff is, there is no reason at all why it couldn't just be virtually free to anyone who wanted to grow enough for personal use if it was legalized.

Not only that, but think of how many favors people who don't smoke pot could get from friends and neighbors who do smoke if they were to grow some primo bud to trade....



It will be legalized... just not the way that pro-pot people want to see it legalized.

It will be heavily taxed by local, state and federal government. It will be illegal to possess any pot that wasn't bought through "proper" channels with taxes paid, and it would be EXTREMELY illegal to grow your own. Not to mention, you still wouldn't be able to have a good job if you were smoking it with all the drug tests out there.


In the end, it will really be an empty gesture..... but to those in the 1% who make enough to pay 10 times what I could pay for weed today if I still smoked, it would be nice to know that I'd never have to worry about being arrested for possessing weed again.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Can you show me any of the poor, cash-strapped red states that are building fewer prisons, closing prisons, or stopping prosecutions of marijuana cases?

If not, I'd say the power and money cards still trump the idea of the unwinnable war.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy




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Saturday, June 16, 2012 4:28 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I think there are some fairly loud noises here about it being decriminalised, but I am not sure about legalised yet.

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Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Not to mention, you still wouldn't be able to have a good job if you were smoking it with all the drug tests out there.



If it's not illegal, then drug testing for it becomes irrelevant. Are you regularly tested for Advil, nicotine, or Bud Light in your system at work?

Drug testing is to turn up ILLEGAL drugs in your system, not legal ones.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Not to mention, you still wouldn't be able to have a good job if you were smoking it with all the drug tests out there.



If it's not illegal, then drug testing for it becomes irrelevant. Are you regularly tested for Advil, nicotine, or Bud Light in your system at work?

Drug testing is to turn up ILLEGAL drugs in your system, not legal ones.



Mayhap you're right, mayhap you're wrong....

Even after it's legalized I think it would be far too tempting for businesses to not hire people who came up positive for pot, at the very least....

Hell.... it would probably take 10 years of bureaucratic changes behind the scenes before it was illegal for a company to drug screen for pot after it became legal to use.



That's the rub....

I could do coke or heroin tonight and be good for a drug test by Tuesday morning. If I smoked weed tonight though, I'd be afraid to take a drug test for 2 or 3 weeks.

F-ing THC and it's ability to hang on so long.....


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Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:25 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm with Magon's, it may get decriminalized soon but it will take longer for it to be legalized. I think Magon's and I are in agreement about it mental health wise. I know a couple of people who say it doesn't worsen their symptoms and say they got sick before they started using it, but most people I know say it isn't a good thing for their non neurotypical brains, so I've avoided it and haven't tried it.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Monday, June 18, 2012 4:46 AM

CAVETROLL


I understand that the biggest opponent to legalization of marijuana is the cotton lobby. If marijuana were legalized then commercial hemp production could begin again in the US. Hemp has several industrial applications, including cloth fibers. And since hemp fibers are more durable than cotton, it would have a negative impact on cotton's demand and price in the clothing industry.

Plus, let's face it. If it were legalized then it could be regulated and have sin taxes applied. The illicit marijuana trade would go from supplying demand to evading taxes.

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Monday, June 18, 2012 5:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mmmm, good point Cave...I hadn't remembered about the hemp part, but you're right. And that's been part of it from the very start, if I remember correctly.

Although, Googling it, it appears the biggest lobbying groups are those we first considered:
Quote:


1.) Police Unions: Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget. In March, we published a story revealing that a police union lobbyist in California coordinated the effort to defeat Prop 19, a ballot measure in 2010 to legalize marijuana, while helping his police department clients collect tens of millions in federal marijuana-eradication grants. And it’s not just in California. Federal lobbying disclosures show that other police union lobbyists have pushed for stiffer penalties for marijuana-related crimes nationwide.

2.) Private Prisons Corporations: Private prison corporations make millions by incarcerating people who have been imprisoned for drug crimes, including marijuana. As Republic Report’s Matt Stoller noted last year, Corrections Corporation of America, one of the largest for-profit prison companies, revealed in a regulatory filing that continuing the drug war is part in parcel to their business strategy. Prison companies have spent millions bankrolling pro-drug war politicians and have used secretive front groups, like the American Legislative Exchange Council, to pass harsh sentencing requirements for drug crimes.

3.) Alcohol and Beer Companies: Fearing competition for the dollars Americans spend on leisure, alcohol and tobacco interests have lobbied to keep marijuana out of reach. For instance, the California Beer & Beverage Distributors contributed campaign contributions to a committee set up to prevent marijuana from being legalized and taxed.

4.) Pharmaceutical Corporations: Like the sin industries listed above, pharmaceutical interests would like to keep marijuana illegal so American don’t have the option of cheap medical alternatives to their products. Howard Wooldridge, a retired police officer who now lobbies the government to relax marijuana prohibition laws, told Republic Report that next to police unions, the “second biggest opponent on Capitol Hill is big PhRMA” because marijuana can replace “everything from Advil to Vicodin and other expensive pills.”

5.) Prison Guard Unions: Prison guard unions have a vested interest in keeping people behind bars just like for-profit prison companies. In 2008, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association spent a whopping $1 million to defeat a measure that would have “reduced sentences and parole times for nonviolent drug offenders while emphasizing drug treatment over prison.” http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/907001/the_top_five_speci
al_interest_groups_lobbying_to_keep_marijuana_illegal/
the other hand, elsewhere I did find this:
Quote:

Pro-marijuana lobbyists, however, conclude that the real reason for the criminalization of marijuana was an economic one. In his book, The Emperor Wears No Clothes, Jack Herer explained that the invention of the decorticator machine presented a serious threat to the industrial empire of William Randolph Hearst (the timber and newspaper baron), the DuPont firm (which had invested heavily in the new nylon technology) and Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon (Chairman of the Mellon Bank, who loaned enormous sums of money to finance DuPont’s nylon research). Anslinger, who was reportedly the husband of Mellon’s niece, Martha Kind Denniston, was roped in to head the offensive against the hemp industry.

The decorticator would’ve been able to harvest the hemp plant at 400% efficiency against existing timber processing technologies. Consequently, the hemp industry will be able to produce fibers for the paper and fabric industry at a phenomenally lower rate compared to the timber and cotton industry. Furthermore, the hemp plant grows exponentially faster than normal trees and cottons, while offering farmers added revenues from its leaves, flowers and seeds. It would’ve led to a swift downfall of Hearst, DuPont and Mellon’s business empires. http://2012.republican-candidates.org/Marijuana.php, and the next time PN does his bit about Obama having smoked dope in his youth, we can hit him with this:
Quote:

Presidential Candidates Formerly Known As Pot Smokers

•Barack Obama
•Newt Gingrich
•Rick Santorum
•Gary Johnson

Presidents Formerly Known As Pot Smokers

•George W. Bush
•Bill Clinton
•Andrew Jackson
•Thomas Jefferson
•John F. Kennedy
•Abraham Lincoln
•James Madison
•James Monroe
•Franklin Pierce
•Zachary Taylor
•George Washington
Quote:




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Monday, June 18, 2012 5:08 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Oh, and the next time PN does his bit about Obama having smoked dope in his youth, we can hit him with this:


Hello,

I doubt he cares. He seems to hate everybody.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Monday, June 18, 2012 6:24 AM

CAVETROLL


All 5 of those groups stand to directly profit from marijuana remaining illegal. Makes sense.

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Monday, June 18, 2012 11:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ay-yup. Explains things pretty clearly, don't it?


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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:00 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:Plus, let's face it. If it were legalized then it could be regulated and have sin taxes applied. The illicit marijuana trade would go from supplying demand to evading taxes.


Doh!

Good point CT... just wanted to make it clear that I said the exact thing in about 5,000 more words a few posts back, so I claim firsties on the "underground" movement negating the potential financial benefits after Government makes it 5 times as expensive to buy pot legally after they tax the shit out of it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
In his book, The Emperor Wears No Clothes, Jack Herer explained that the invention of the decorticator machine presented a serious threat to the industrial empire of William Randolph Hearst (the timber and newspaper baron), the DuPont firm (which had invested heavily in the new nylon technology) and Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon (Chairman of the Mellon Bank, who loaned enormous sums of money to finance DuPont’s nylon research). Anslinger, who was reportedly the husband of Mellon’s niece, Martha Kind Denniston, was roped in to head the offensive against the hemp industry.

The decorticator would’ve been able to harvest the hemp plant at 400% efficiency against existing timber processing technologies. Consequently, the hemp industry will be able to produce fibers for the paper and fabric industry at a phenomenally lower rate compared to the timber and cotton industry. Furthermore, the hemp plant grows exponentially faster than normal trees and cottons, while offering farmers added revenues from its leaves, flowers and seeds. It would’ve led to a swift downfall of Hearst, DuPont and Mellon’s business empires.



Yup Niki....

You already covered it here, but I was going to bring up Hearst.

Today, many of the other reasons you sight have probably become equally as meaningful, but from what I understand about the past, Hearst was the biggest opponent when the anti-pot laws were originally legislated and Hearst was not a man to be trifled with......

In the age of getting the Wall Street Journal daily on your iPhone, I think that point is relatively moot....

Oh well......

I guess, if nothing else, we can thank Hearst for one of the funniest movies ever made:






DISCLAIMER: Although being an AVID pot smoker for over 10 years, I have proudly been weed free since April of 2011. Although I do feel I no longer benefit from the positive effects, it "treats" everyone differently. I was much less motivated while on it. I would have been completely incapable of doing 99% of what I've done in that time if I hadn't quit. I'm even more proud to say that since about September of last year I hardly ever even think about it. The first few weeks without there wasn't hardly a moment that passed that I didn't think about just buying some. The few months after that, I'm quite sure I would have fallen back into the habit had I been around the people I knew that smoked. Today, I can hang out with those people again and even if they've got it in front of me, I can just leave the room and not even be tempted. Even more, I've been able to pass 3 drug tests without the need for 90 dollars of synthetic urine in the last 6 months.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:52 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Sounds like you feel good about your choice to finish up with it Jack. You really have gotten a lot done over the last year.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yeah Riona... Thanks.

For me personally, at least at this point in my life, it was a drain. It was actually cheaper than other vices like booze have become to compensate as a "crutch", but if I could be classified as an alcoholic now, I would at least be considered a functional alcoholic. Outside of work though, I smoked weed nearly all the time. I could always shut it off when I needed to work to pay the bills, but the second I got home I was lighting up. Hopefully I'll get back into jogging and working out again soon now that I'm working and I can throw out the booze too.

Two of the most driven people I know in the world personally smoke more weed than I ever did. To them, it's not what you do after work, or to use as an excuse to not go out and do anything like it was for me. They're good people and I really think that it makes them even better people.

That's the thing about drugs... even the prescribed ones react with our different body chemestries in completely different ways.

I still believe there are far more reasons to legalize it than there are reasons not to. It's just that with the government taxing it like they will and employers still screening for it, I'd still have no desire to start back up on it, my own shortcomings while on it aside.




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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So, Jack - what is it you're trying so desperately to get away from?

What is it in your life that you can't face without being 'faced? You seem to be bouncing from one addiction to another, without really thinking about WHY you're addicted to being addicted.

ETA: By the way, that's not a snark; it's an actual question, and a piece of advice: Figure out WHY you feel the need to be fucked up so much of the time. Why are you unhappy in your own skin?




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:30 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Mike,

If I may posit a loosely related question...

Would you be willing to give up Mr. Raptor for 30 days?

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Anthony: Prize for first giggle of the day.


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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:02 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello Mike,

If I may posit a loosely related question...

Would you be willing to give up Mr. Raptor for 30 days?

--Anthony




Do I get a chip if I pull it off? :)


I'd bet I can go longer than Niki. I'll take that Pepsi challenge.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


In marijuana news, the Texas Democratic Party just added a platform plank to decriminalize marijuana in Texas, and urges the President, the Attorney General, and the Congress to move to do the same nationally.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/06/20/texas-democrats-move-to-legalize-ma
rijuana
/


Of course, when I saw "Texas Democratic Party", I thought, "BOTH of us?!" I kid, of course, but not that much. Still, this move should swing some votes to the left in Texas, and possibly help move the issue further into the limelight.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:22 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


A Anthony a chara, That made me laugh HARD. :)

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 2:31 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So, Jack - what is it you're trying so desperately to get away from?

What is it in your life that you can't face without being 'faced? You seem to be bouncing from one addiction to another, without really thinking about WHY you're addicted to being addicted.

ETA: By the way, that's not a snark; it's an actual question, and a piece of advice: Figure out WHY you feel the need to be fucked up so much of the time. Why are you unhappy in your own skin?



I've thought about this a lot. I have my theories on it.

It isn't always bad addictions either, but I guess even "healthy" addictions become bad when done seriously out of moderation. There was about 4 years in my early 20s that I put on 70lbs of muscle mass. Most of that time was spent while on unemployment and the few years afterward when I was only working rehab jobs here and there and I could spend about 40 hours a week at the gym. I barely smoked any weed or cigarettes then, and only drank once a week, if that.

I'd be more concerned about it now if I was going on 33 and still living in the basement my grandma's cats pissed all over, but even with all of my addictions I've managed to do a lot to better myself in the last 8 years and the only thing slowing that down at the moment is not being able to find a great job. At least the one I have now I mildly enjoy and the people are cool there. It doesn't pay much and the hours aren't great, but it's really close to home and it covers all of my monthly expenses bills and taxes and allows me about 50 extra bucks a month.

My monthly expenses today are less than my apartment rent was 3 years ago. I don't have a clue how I'd be staying afloat today if I wasn't here. I'm thankful that things have gone so smoothly, and even as mediocre as this job is, I'm thankful that I was able to get it.

The addictions will have to be worked on though, that's for sure.....

Thanks for caring


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