When Does It Stop Great Britain? by ShinyEd

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

When Does It Stop Great Britain?

POSTED BY: SHINYED
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 07:53
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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 2:00 AM

I read on AP news that Great Britain's education system will no longer teach students about either The Crusades or The Holocaust. This decision is based on the pretext of "not offending Muslims."

Is this not institutionalized politial corectness taken to the most absurd degree? What is the problem teaching the truth about history? Muslims, as demonically touchy as they always are, should not have a problem with the Crusades, as they actually did rather well against the Christian forces of Europe....and The Holocaust...what are they gonna say?...how they ever gonna 'splain about all those films and newsreels of piles of dead bodies found at liberated death camps, or all those very skinny people who were found alive and rescued by British soldiers??? What...that their food stamps ran out? Another thing that frustrates me about Britain is that I've seen loads of pictures & video of their resident Muslim popluation protesting in the streets...nothing wrong with that...but the messages they carry are downright ridiculous: death to Britain!...or 911 was nothing, wait til you see what we do to Europe...or another one saying Britain : your 911 is coming, or my personal favorite I saw : Let the beheadings begin! Now I know we have protests & nutjobs in America aplenty....but here they usually just stick to name calling...Bush is Hitler, or no blood for oil, or USA is Israel's lapdog, etc etc ....but it is illegal to threaten, incite, or advocate violence....free speech doesn't give anyone any right to do that. In Great Britain you are having open insurrection right in the streets...all perfectly legal I guess. Sir Winston Churchill, perhaps the greatest leader of freedom & democracy ever, is rolling around in his grave as England surrenders to Islam everyday, and his grandson is outraged as well. Come on Brits'...how much longer you all gonna kiss the muslims' butts?

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 2:11 AM

KHYRON

Not just the Brits, most Western European countries are giving in to this sort of ridiculousness. When the Danes publish some cartoons which the Muslims are angry about (in almost all cases without having seen them first), Europeans say "Oh, our fault, we shouldn't take freedom of expression too far, we're bad people, please forgive us", but when Muslims go out into the streets and shout "Death to {offending person, government or institution of the week}", we hear "it's their right, they're a minority therefore they've been oppressed in some way", etc.

Appeasement didn't work last century, won't work now.

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
...all perfectly legal I guess.

It's not legal, just rarely does anybody do anything about it (although, surprisingly, there already have been one or two convictions because of it).

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 3:33 AM

CAUSAL

Wasn't somebody on these boards recently ranting about how poor the American education system is compared to the British one? At least my kids will learn about the Crusades and the Holocaust. Yeesh, history curriculum is not the place for political correctness.

________________________________________________________________________
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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 3:44 AM

SIMONF

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
I read on AP news that Great Britain's education system will no longer teach students about either The Crusades or The Holocaust. This decision is based on the pretext of "not offending Muslims."

Can you pass on the link? And btw you might want to read this BBC news item which gives a far balanced and acccurate version of events. Notice where it says the Holocaust is protected in the curriculum.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6517359.stm

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 3:47 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Wasn't somebody on these boards recently ranting about how poor the American education system is compared to the British one? At least my kids will learn about the Crusades and the Holocaust.

Yeah, like how Robert E. Lee led the crusades against the Jews who were camped in Poland and fighting the British to free the slaves making the A-Bomb. They had to hollarcaust the cannons was loud.

H

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 3:52 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Wasn't somebody on these boards recently ranting about how poor the American education system is compared to the British one? At least my kids will learn about the Crusades and the Holocaust. Yeesh, history curriculum is not the place for political correctness.

The story is mostly bullshit. Who'd have thought it, a tabloid news story that doesn't include much of the latter.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 3:55 AM

CAUSAL

Well shit. I guess that's what I get for not exercising due diligence in running down the story first and posting second. No hard feelings, I hope, Citz.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 4:02 AM

SHUKES

I completely agree that such topics should be taught regardless of possibly offending people, its history, if your offended by history well then you have more serious problems.

As for the protesting if thats what they want to right on signs they have every right to - it is freedom of speech and i think it stupid, it is of course a differnt matter if they acctually do something violent. I disagree with what they say but defend their right to say it.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 4:15 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonF:
Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
I read on AP news that Great Britain's education system will no longer teach students about either The Crusades or The Holocaust. This decision is based on the pretext of "not offending Muslims."

Can you pass on the link? And btw you might want to read this BBC news item which gives a far balanced and acccurate version of events. Notice where it says the Holocaust is protected in the curriculum.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6517359.stm

After reading the more balanced article, I still find it kind of questionable that teachers would want to avoid rather than embrace the possible controversy of examining such loaded subjects, especially if they attempt, as it says, "a balanced treatment".

Isn't history class the perfect place for examining what is good and what is less than noble about our past, from different POV'S? Isn't that sort of the point?

Basically, it sounds as if teachers are afraid of students becoming rowdy or feeling upset about things that quite simply happened and thus changing their curriculum, which implies a very sad situation that has only indirectly to do with what subjects they teach.

I might have a far to simplistic view, though.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 4:19 AM

SHINYED

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 4:40 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
The story is mostly bullshit.

Mostly bullshit?....huh Citizen? what part?
It's all true & if you don't know that, then you've got you're head buried too far up your bloomin' arse.... but you can just pretend it's bullshit...I don't mind.

Thank you for your well reasoned and above all polite response. As much as I trust the "ShinyEd News reporting agency" to have it's fact checking policies right up there with the BBC and Reuters it would be nice to have a link to what one might call a 'reputable' news source, rather than just a rant from your good self.

If YOU don't know that this story was a largely erroneous piece run by the Daily Mail, a tabloid news paper that just loves to run this sort of story either side talk about how wonderful the queen is perhaps it is not I who has the problem involving the head content of my rectum eh.

Much of the basis of this story is that some teachers haven't chosen one particular option on the curriculum. The study mentioned by the daily mail that teachers are refusing to teach the holocaust so as to not offend Muslims is rather difficult to find, almost like it doesn't exist at all. But then, having done your research, you already know that.

EDIT:
Come now, how am I to be insulted by your responces if you delete them so soon after making them

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 4:56 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

When does what stop Great Britain? Does something stop Great Britain now? Because I'm willing to try something that stops Great Britain. Purely in the interests of science, of course.

*reads post*

Oh. It's just a Daily Mail story.

*wanders off*

Above post is intended purely to be taken humorously and is not intented to cause offence to any Great British person or even so-so British person or any relative or friend thereof. No Great British people were harmed in the typing of this post.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 5:00 AM

SHINYED

I don't like anyone calling my posts bullshit...even you citizen Citizen. It irritated me so I lashed out, but after a few minutes I deleted it....these days I really don't want to go to war with anyone here, or anywhere else....and I seem to recall your name a lot in name-calling and bashing all over these boards.

The school stuff I posted is true...and didn't come from any Brit tabloid...came from AP wire story of a new British Government study that surveyed schools, and found that many were doing this.

And...what about all the rest I posted? The insane muslims in the streets carrying death threats & threats of genocide?...is that bullshit too?...cause I actually have lots of pics of all that going on....or was the Winston Churchill reference bullshit too? Was he not the great defender of freedom from genocidal maniacs for England & Europe?..Is his grandson Winston Churchill III NOT outraged and disgusted over what England has become in regard to their muslim infestation?...Better yet, let's make a deal : you don't use the world bullshit & I won't say your head's up your ass.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 5:24 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
I don't like anyone calling my posts bullshit...even you citizen Citizen.

I said the story was mostly bullshit, if you can't tell the difference I fail to see how that is my problem. And actually the factual content of your post is rather difficult to asertain since it's just a rant.

Quote:
and I seem to recall your name a lot in name-calling and bashing all over these boards.

Some people can't accept disagreement, here for instance, others can't handle it when I've handed them their arse on a gilded platter. I fail to see how others immaturity is my problem, I'll also note that it's seldom myself that starts off with the personal stuff, and hey, look above, you got personal with me, I still haven't with you.

Quote:
The school stuff I posted is true...and didn't come from any Brit tabloid...came from AP wire story of a new British Government study that surveyed schools, and found that many were doing this.

So you say, I'm still waiting for that link. The Daily Mail originally ran this story, and they used much the wording you did, you'll forgive my confusion. I'd also like a link to this AP wire story, since I can't find it myself.

Quote:
And...what about all the rest I posted?

I can comment on your hyperbole if you like?

Quote:
let's make a deal : you don't use the world bullshit & I won't say your head's up your ass.

That's a deal? I don't call bullshit on what I see as bullshit and you won't personally insult me? Here's a better one: You back up what you say, try discussing things, drop the insults, and I won't call you a Troll.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 5:31 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

I take it that you dont actualy live in the UK, 'cos your view from the outside is a little bit skewed.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 5:48 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Based on SimonF’s “balanced and acccurate version of events” in the BBC article, it’s pretty clear that some schools in Britain are indeed doing precisely what you’ve indicated. And fanatical Muslim presence in London is a well founded notion. London is or has been one of the most important, if not the most important, western base for Muslim terrorist, including Al Qaeda.

On the issue of accuracy in high/grade school (or equivalent) history class, the truth is that such history has always been questionable at best. I was taught that the Crusades were a product of evil white European Christians who just one day got a hankerin’ for attacking the Middle East. That’s the story that I thought was true up until College. Then one day in college, it came to me. For 3-4 hundred years before the Crusades, huge armies of Muslims had invaded, converted or killed the “non-believers” from the Hindus Valley all the way to Morocco. If it hadn’t been for some Frankish Kings, the Eastern Roman Empire and a few Crusades, it’s very likely we’d all be speaking Arabic and praying to the East right now. But that story gets left out in favor of blaming it all on Christians.

Most Americans are taught that Christians during the Middle Ages thought the world was flat. This is so widely taught that it is pretty much accepted as fact. Not only is it wrong, but it’s not far removed from an ethnic slur. This is a lie basically that came from 19th century humanists who were attempting to malign Christians for political reasons. In reality, Christian scholars during the Middle Ages were essentially the most well educated and reasoned people in Europe at the time, with the except of a small handful of fruitcakes, they did not believe the world was flat.

So before we shun verifiable historical events, like the Holocaust, to avoid offending certain groups who don’t want to accept an impartial history, why don’t we weed out the blatant lies that are taught to children as fact and which were originally intended as slurs to a certain group?

And of course the reason why this happens today is because Christians in general don’t riot and cut people’s heads off when they read something offensive in the Papers. And of course that’s a good thing. Most Muslims, I’m sure, (whether they would admit it or not) would prefer that their fanatical elements were a little more Christian in their temperament. But the frustrated side of me is getting this impression that our education and information systems were marginalizing the good behavior and encouraging the bad behavior.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 6:35 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

this story was a largely erroneous piece run by the Daily Mail, a tabloid news paper that just loves to run this sort of story

Hey, the date on the Daily Mail piece wasn't April 1, was it?

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 8:50 AM

SHINYED

Now that the preliminaries are out of the way, some have looked into this on their own, some have just called it bullshit & labeled me (again!) a troll, some have acknowledged & agreed, & some have asked for links to make it easier 'cause their time is limited.

JUST GO TO GOOGLE.COM
Type in : ENGLAND TEACHES MUSLIMS HOLOCAUST

You'll get 5-10 recent reports & articles concerning that, and also the purposeful omission of education about The Crusades....btw...you'll just love the "rationale" these so-called educators give for not teaching these subjects.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 9:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So when DOES "it" stop Great Britain? I'm still trying to figure that one out.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 11:48 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

"It" never realy started, except in the minds of some people who dont live here and seem to be following a Brit-bashing trend on the RWED at the moment.
When I was at school in the seventies I was not taught about the crusades, nor very much about the Halocaust except as part of general 20th century history. I was taught about the American civil war, however, and how it was all about "freeing the slaves".
Most situations involve more than just what you read in a couple of articles or see on a news report or indeed pick up from the latest Hollywood movie.
Interpretation seems to be nine tenths of the law.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 11:59 AM

FLETCH2

The problem with history is that most of the world has more than 200 odd years of it and there is more of it all the time.

My English history classes didn't touch on the Crusades or the Holocaust and that was way before political correctness.

For the Crusades, we essentially skipped it since what Richard was doing abroad was not nearly as interesting as John and the Magna Carta. History finished for us in 1914 on the eve of WW1. Like I said, lot of history to cover from the stone age onwards.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:02 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
Now that the preliminaries are out of the way, some have looked into this on their own, some have just called it bullshit

I said mostly bullshit because it's blown out of all proportion and little more than hyperbole. Interesting that instead of presenting a case you throw a tempertantrum. I've actually looked into this on my own, before you posted this thread, which is why I'm not carrying a pitchfork and ready to burn down all the mosques.

Quote:
& labeled me (again!) a troll,

Well actually I said I won't call you a troll if you don't act like one. I didn't call you a troll. I've still not attacked you personally as you did me, seems your high ground is a might fragile.

Quote:
some have acknowledged & agreed, & some have asked for links to make it easier 'cause their time is limited.

Evidently not as limited as yours since you can't be bothered to do this yourself. Now I asked for a link to the AP wire story you refrenced because, and I feel I was very clear on this point, I couldn't find it. Maybe I couldn't find it because it doesn't exist? I am at a loss to explain your continued refusal to fullfill a simple request if that is not the case.

Quote:
JUST GO TO GOOGLE.COM
Type in : ENGLAND TEACHES MUSLIMS HOLOCAUST

Because copy paste from the title bar is beyond your cognative abillities? We have to do your research for you because you're too damn lazy? How does your desire to get other people to do your work for you reflect badly on them?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:55 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
"It" never realy started, except in the minds of some people who dont live here and seem to be following a Brit-bashing trend on the RWED at the moment.
When I was at school in the seventies I was not taught about the crusades, nor very much about the Halocaust except as part of general 20th century history. I was taught about the American civil war, however, and how it was all about "freeing the slaves".
Most situations involve more than just what you read in a couple of articles or see on a news report or indeed pick up from the latest Hollywood movie.
Interpretation seems to be nine tenths of the law.

I think that there is a desire to skew the history that children get for political reasons. I don’t think its major motivation of many teachers, but I do think that it exists to some extent in the upper management of the education system where things become a bit more political, certainly in the US and I think also in Britain.

Now the real problem is that history is too complicated to really tell the full story at that level. Students aren’t going to be interested in pedantic lectures, so you have to dumb it down. And so history, at that level, is always going to be some amalgamated proxy of the real thing. And the debate then becomes about what should and shouldn’t be included. Ultimately, what you want is for this aliased history to be an abridged representation of the real thing to the extent that it passes on the lessons that one would naturally receive if one were to examine the real thing, and for many people the history they get in high school may be the extent of what they know about the history in general. So the lessons of history are passed onto the people by what amounts to folklore. And it behooves everyone, particularly, those knowledgeable in history to make sure that folklore is representative of the real thing and not being used by certain groups to illicit a sympathy for one cause or another.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 2:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I was prettymuch gonna say that Finn, but you put it well enough that it stands on it's own.

Knowledge of history is often the key to predicting future events, humans, and human governments in general, are not very original and thus tend to work in cycles.

Down with McCarthy!(again)
Bring on the Hippies!(again)

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 2:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

"Science" is usually presented as a list of facts (electrons, protons, the vas deferens of the earthworm...). If you try and teach science as a wide swath of facts, inevitably many things will be dumbed down, nuances will be missed, and some things will be taught wrong - or will be proved wrong in the future.

I think history is the same. Dumbed-down history is just that: dumb. Also, it's usually written by the victors. Rather than trying to present a grand sweep of human history... which necessarily is going to miss a lot... isn't there some way of presenting a "historical method"?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2007 3:35 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Science is dumbed down too. No high school teacher teaches quantum physics. In a high school class the atom is a tinny orb around which little electrons are orbiting.

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Monday, May 9, 2016 10:55 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

http://www.terrorscoop.com/londonistan-city-london-elects-racist-pro-j
ihadist-christian-hating-muslim-mayor/

Londonistan Elects

http://shoebat.com/2016/05/06/the-sun-sets-on-the-british-empire-as-th
e-city-of-london-elects-a-racist-pro-jihadist-christian-hating-muslim-for-mayor/

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Monday, May 9, 2016 11:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The two articles are virtually the same. They both contain vast historical distortions, particularly the reference to Catholic Medieval England as the real soul of England, best carried forward by Scotland, Wales, and Ireland.

But those nations, heritages, and cultures which the author claims to be "truly British" - Scotland, Wales, and especially Ireland - are peoples which England was bent on exterminating. The history of medieval England ... and all the way up to the mid-1800's ... was a brutal fight for dominance by the English-speaking descendants of the Norman (French) invaders. The languages of Irish Gaelic, Welsh, and Celtic are footnotes in history. Their original religions are gone. NOW the author wants to claims them as the true English heritage? Yeesh! Talk about history being written by the victor! The author has concocted a "history of England" that's based on a fairy tale.

However, they do contain what I consider to be a disturbing clip of the (now) new mayor being interviewed, when he says something to the effect of

"I've been talking to a lot of people... You can't pick who you talk to ... You can't just talk to the Uncle Toms".

Now, being an "Uncle Tom" means being a traitor to your race and/or cultural heritage. WHO are the "Uncle Toms" that Sadiq Khan is talking about, and which culture are they betraying?

Also, I consider "liberals" to be patsies for the internationalist power structure. They THINK they're being kind because they've been convinced (by TPTB) that sharing the crumbs which are left to them (by TPTB) is the right thing to do. Of course, it's the stupid and cowardly thing to do. They never wonder WHY so many people are displaced, and they never ask themselves what can be done about it.

That is one of the reasons why my tagline is "I believe in solving problems, not sharing them" but I don't think that people understand what that means.

--------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, May 9, 2016 6:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The two articles are virtually the same. They both contain vast historical distortions, particularly the reference to Catholic Medieval England as the real soul of England, best carried forward by Scotland, Wales, and Ireland.

You dispute the Catholic Medieval England as the real soul of England.
From Alfred the Great, considered the first King of United England, until Henry VIII, England was the domain of the Catholics, ruled by royals who had converted to Christianity - which at that time meant Catholic. 700 years is a significant base for foundation of a country's soul.

The blindfolded centuries since then, based upon lies, deception, fabrications of Henry VIII to create the Anglican Church, exposed bare by the King James Bible of 1604, hardly count as more than truth avoidance in terms of the country's soul. The shredding of the soul was also evidenced by the true patriots fleeing the repressive dictatorship, spreading to the New World and the other colonized portions of the Empire.

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Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:47 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Dutch leaders banned, Millennial Woes is scary and a pseudonym Count Dankula

Alt-Right Youtuber Forced Into Hiding

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Tuesday, January 10, 2017 6:34 PM

WISHIMAY

Dumb-asses should be ashamed of their stupidity.

I think I find "alt-right" should be called the "I process everything though an inflationary filter of bigotry and fear and paranoia before I speak" disorder.

You guys got ahold of the good batch of reaver making juice, didn't ya?

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Tuesday, October 31, 2023 7:53 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

The usual suspects attack a woman on London Underground.

https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1719068295435886758

Quote:
Britain is in retrogress
Trip back in time on the moral decliner
Beliefs and values, years in the making
Swept away in a whole generation

Slumped on, shat on
Dumped on, spat on
We're going nowhere
And we really don't care

She's shitting on Britain
She's shitting on Britain

more old punk than Shamen's typical electronic

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