Fray by Zicsoft

BUFFYVERSE

Fray

POSTED BY: ZICSOFT
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 19:28
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VIEWED: 3723
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Friday, June 14, 2002 1:50 PM

Anybody besides me read Fray?

http://www.darkhorse.com/news/features/pg_feview/z_buffy/sku_00018/ite
m_00018c/X_0/

I'm not big on comics, but I think a serious Buffy fan has to read these. Makes you appreciate Whedon's writing a bit more. We all know he's good at dialog, but when we hear it on TV, we tend to give more credit to the actors. You read the lines he writes for characters you've never met before, and you understand his ear for voices.

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Friday, June 14, 2002 2:14 PM

NOVAGRASS

I read Fray.

I love Fray.

I'm a... fairly well versed comic book guy (borderline comic book geek.) Unfortunately, there's a lot lacking in modern comic storytelling... with atrocities like Ultimate Spider-Man ruling the market. The only *good* modern comics were released pre-2000 (i.e. Sin City, Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, etc).

Fray is one of the few lights in modern comics. It continues to have fresh stories, compelling characters, interesting story development, and fantastic dialogue... all of which are very rare in the current state of comics, let alone a combination of any of the afformentioned points.

From a Buffy fan standpoint, I can say that a lot of great foreshadowing is given for the future of Buffy... some of which could end very sadly. A true necessity for any Buffy fan.

Overall, I recommend this to anyone who likes good storytelling. You'll find something to like if you don't like comics... and you'll find something to love even if you aren'y a Buffy fan. It's really a great series.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

... I guess it's a Joss thing...

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Friday, June 14, 2002 2:18 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

I really want to read it, but I can't get any of the earlier issues, and they're supposedly on their second printing. I guess I'll just have to wait till the series conclude next month and get the trade paperback when they release it.

I did, however, get to read JMS's Amazing Spiderman recently. It's awesome.

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Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:57 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken: I really want to read it, but I can't get any of the earlier issues, and they're supposedly on their second printing.

Yeah. Dark House seems to cater to collectors rather than readers. Which makes sense, I guess, since who else is going to pay three bucks for something you can read in 10 minutes? But it means short print runs. I bought the second printing of 1 through 3, am really anxious to read the rest. But they've sold out the first run of #4, haven't done a second, and now they've sold out the second run of #1 -- all before they've even gotten round to printing #7 and #8 at all!

You can usually get out-of-print DHs on Ebay for a resonable price. But it's a pain -- you have to do a lot of searching, and a lot of the sellers are a pain to deal with.

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 3:50 AM

NOFETSUR

I initially had my doubts about Fray (as far as the writing's concerned - the artwork has not only been consistently good from the start but also improving issue by issue), but #5 changed everything for me.

Dark Horse should have a paperback collection out by the end of the year. I have to say their promotion of this book has been terrible. They barely explained it to retailers (who are the ones who buy the book from them - #1 sold out in all stores very quickly because retailers under-ordered), and the best publicity it got was Joss Whedon going onto the internet begging people to buy it. If Joss is reading this: have Xander read an issue in the background of a Buffy! That should raise awareness of the book (at the very least, by getting mentions in the numerous episode guides...).

As for Ultimate Spider-Man, what are you talking about? Sure, it's revisionist, but it's actually very well written and it's getting a lot of newcomers into reading comics. Just because you disagree with its principle doesn't make it poor quality.

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 5:28 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nofetsur: As for Ultimate Spider-Man, what are you talking about? Sure, it's revisionist, but it's actually very well written and it's getting a lot of newcomers into reading comics. Just because you disagree with its principle doesn't make it poor quality.

Huh? I don't think anyone here said that Ultimate Spiderman was poor quality.

If you were referring to what I said about the "Amazing Spiderman" written by B5 creator, J. Michael Straczynski, I said it was awesome and a highly recommended read.

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 7:14 AM

NOVAGRASS

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken: Quote:
Originally posted by Nofetsur: As for Ultimate Spider-Man, what are you talking about? Sure, it's revisionist, but it's actually very well written and it's getting a lot of newcomers into reading comics. Just because you disagree with its principle doesn't make it poor quality.

Huh? I don't think anyone here said that Ultimate Spiderman was poor quality.

If you were referring to what I said about the "Amazing Spiderman" written by B5 creator, J. Michael Straczynski, I said it was awesome and a highly recommended read.

It was me... I don't like Ultimate Spider-Man.

Not because it's revisionist... the fact that it is revisionist is really the only good thing about the book, IMO. (well, that and the drawings are *great*)

First, I think it's pretty poorly written. To me, Brian Michael Bendis is probably the most overrated writer in comics today. His style is jumbled and doesn't flow well, his characters are under-drawn and far from compelling. I tried out Alias, after reading USM to see if it was just the forum in which he's writing that turned me off, but I found very little to like in that book as well.

Second, I believe that the book is a blatant attempt to gain new readers by pandering to the lowest common denomenator. Sure, a lot of intelligent people may enjoy the book, but I feel that the writing style has been developed to appeal mostly to pre-teen readers, namely, the pop-MTV generation.

Third, my opinion is that Bendis completely missed the character of Peter Parker. I understand that this is a revisionist story, but Marvel claims that they are simply taking the same characters and putting them in modern day situations. In order to do this, you must develop the same character... and Bendis failed miserably in this regard. He has ignored the charms of the characters, the beauty their relationships.

The way I see it, the Spider-Man movie was a far superior interpretation of the characters. When I see Spider-man, I want to be filled with childhood awe. Ultimate Spider-Man does not give me this feeling, instead, it feels like a trite attempt to gain faltering revenue for a faltering comic company.

I enjoyed MJS's Amazing Spider-Man... I think he hit the characters spot-on. The only other thing I find interesting over at Marvel these days is Morrison's New X-Men.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

"Nice guys can only get so mad." Fillion on Mal

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 7:51 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Novagrass: The only other thing I find interesting over at Marvel these days is Morrison's New X-Men.

What do you think of Ultimate X-Men? I'm reading that (and a few others) right now and that's pretty good.

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 8:55 AM

NOVAGRASS

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken: Quote:
Originally posted by Novagrass: The only other thing I find interesting over at Marvel these days is Morrison's New X-Men.

What do you think of Ultimate X-Men? I'm reading that (and a few others) right now and that's pretty good.

The problem I've always had with X-Men is the fact that there are just too many of them... and you can't get emotionally attached to any of them, IMO.

Ultimate X-Men elimnates this problem, and brings a fresh angle to the characters. I like how it is more character-based than the traditional X-Men comics (Morrison does this better in New X-Men, IMO). I think the UXM writers have some interesting ideas, and are overall better than Brian Michael Bendis (an opinion).

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

"Nice guys can only get so mad." Fillion on Mal

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 10:05 AM

JONWES

Yeah, I'd have to say Ultimate X-men v.s. New X-men, I'd go with New X-men. It basically performs the same function as Ultimate X-men without getting rid of the backstory, and without the silly attempt to be all "hip."

I can't say I much like the X characters as presented in Ultimate X. New X-men, however has me enthralled.

And if you all want superior X action, hell superior comic writing period - check out one of the best written comic books out - X-Force. I only read a select few comics with any regularity anymore and it's Captain Marvel, Supergirl (both by Peter David), X-Force and New X-men.

Jon

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 11:55 AM

ZICSOFT

Uh, I don't think the marketing is what's wrong with Fray. The problem is that you can't bloody buy the damned books. They haven't even published all 8 issues yet, and already the second printing of issue #1 is out of print. (Even if the stores don't stock them, you can always get current DHs from tfaw.com.) As I said before, I think DH sells them to be collected, not read.

And yeah, the art's really good too.

I made the mistake of buying one of those gawdawful Fassbender Buffys. He has her reading Fray. But I can't imagine Whedon using that gimmick. I mean, one slayer reading about another that hasn't been born yet?

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 12:28 PM

NOVAGRASS

Jonwes: I very much enjoy Supergirl, too. About all I read nowadays are Supergirl (the best Superfamily title), Batgirl (the best Batfamily title), JLA (writing is the best it's been in a long time), New X-Men, and (of course) Fray.

Zicsoft: *yuck* A Fassbender Buffy comic?! That's almost as bad as reading a Golden or Holder Buffy comic. *vomits at the thought*

NOFETSUR: How can Xander read something that he's technically a part of? That would be like me reading a comic book telling the story of my great grandson. Fray, as far as I know, is canonical... there's no way Xander could read it.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

"Nice guys can only get so mad." Fillion on Mal

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 4:08 PM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by Novagrass: Zicsoft: *yuck* A Fassbender Buffy comic?! That's almost as bad as reading a Golden or Holder Buffy comic. *vomits at the thought*

Don't be rude. Besides, there's a perfectly good :vomit: icon.

I actually think Golden is a pretty good writer. He's just about the only writer outside of Whedon's own team that has any feeling for the characters. Not that I'm a fan -- he's one of those blood-loving horror writers who takes the genre *so* seriously. His Buffy tie-ins are well-written, but lacking any of the irony or humor of the show itself.

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 4:57 PM

JOCE

Quote:
His Buffy tie-ins are well-written, but lacking any of the irony or humor of the show itself.

I have to agree there. I have read Christopher Golden's original series The Shadow Saga and liked it much more than his Buffy stuff.

As for Fray, I love it!! It's well-written, well-drawn and full of Joss's great twists and turns. I've got all the ones that have thus far been released, and can't wait for #7 and #8. The only thing that irritates me is that they're taking so long to come out. I mean, the first one was released almost a year ago!

-- Joce :)

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:00 PM

MOJOECA

I have read just two Buffy novels. My first was Golden's Spike and Dru: Pretty Maids All in a Row. Having come off a streak of reading classic works, the weakness of the writing was palpable. But I still liked it; it was a good story. Then I tried out Nancy Holder's The Book of Fours. The book was a streaming pile. Terrible. I haven't read another Buffy novel since.

--- Joe

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Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:31 PM

VOIDPRIME

I read Fray so far and liked it. As for good comics, check out American century from DC/Vertigo and Paul Pope's new mini-series from DC/Vertigo, 100%, due this month. Paul pope has to be one of the best new comic book artists in years. And Grant Morrison's New X-Men is great. the new Doom Patrol series is weird. I like reading Neon Genesis Evangelion from Viz Comics (and need to check out the anime of it on VHS or DVD). Have a better one.

Be Seeing You, David Blackwell

http://enterline2.tripod.com/andromeda

http://enterline2.tripod.com/enterline

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Monday, June 17, 2002 4:46 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by mojoeca: I have read just two Buffy novels. My first was Golden's Spike and Dru: Pretty Maids All in a Row. Having come off a streak of reading classic works, the weakness of the writing was palpable. But I still liked it; it was a good story. Then I tried out Nancy Holder's The Book of Fours. The book was a streaming pile. Terrible. I haven't read another Buffy novel since.

Well, I don't think you can judge genre fiction by comparing it against "literature". Different conventions, standards, goals. And I think Golden is a pretty good genre writer. As I said before, I think he does a good job of capturing the Buffy characters. I'd be a fan, except he only writes grim, humorless horror, which bores me.

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Monday, June 17, 2002 7:25 AM

MARINO

I regularly read about twenty comics a week, every week, year 'round. Which is a lot, ask anybody. I'm a serious and sad addict to comics.

FRAY, from the beginning and up to now, has ruled. It amazes me how well Joss adapted his style of storytelling in order to write a comic book. The dialogue, the action, the timing - it's all good.

Sure, he's a bit late on deadlines, but that's forgiven for something that's actually this good. So yeah, check it out, people. Trades will be coming out by the end of the year, I'm sure.

And while you're buying that, pick up a BARRY WEEN trade or two. That book's seriously demented and hilarious.

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Monday, June 17, 2002 9:22 AM

HJERMSTED

Being a long time reader of the Love and Rockets comic books, I am accustomed to long waits between issues. The Hernandez Bros. always make the wait worthwhile when the issue finally hits the stands.

It appears Mr. Whedon is following in that tradition with Fray. A new issue is always worht the wait. I am enjoying this series immensely and plan on picking up the trade paperback collection of Fray when it comes out. That way my friends and I can stop reading my collectors item copies!

How many of you Fray fans also picked up the Angel comic series that Joss co-wrote?

mattro

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Monday, June 17, 2002 11:16 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by MarinO: I regularly read about twenty comics a week, every week, year 'round. Which is a lot, ask anybody. I'm a serious and sad addict to comics.

I wouldn't call that "addiction". I mean, comics don't exactly take forever to read. And if you take longer because you stop to enjoy the pretty pictures, well that counts as appreciating art. :smile:

Question is, do you buy them all yourself, or do you trade with friends? That's a big expense. Or are other labels cheaper than DH?

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Monday, June 17, 2002 2:57 PM

JOCE

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted: How many of you Fray fans also picked up the Angel comic series that Joss co-wrote?

*raises hand* Yup! And it's definitely different from previous Angel comics. I like it -- lots of action. Actually, I don't have the fourth one yet (has it been released?), but I'm looking forward to reading it.

-- Joce :)

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Monday, June 17, 2002 7:15 PM

JONWES

Quote:
I like reading Neon Genesis Evangelion from Viz Comics (and need to check out the anime of it on VHS or DVD). Have a better one.

Yes, do check the series out. Haven't read the manga yet, but I liked the series and am eager to watch the movie. It's the ONLY anime series I ever bothered to watch all the way through (I rented it little by little from the local Hastings)and even though the ending is hella bizarre it's really intriguing and a good series.

I can' wait to read Fray, but sadly I'm in the boat with many of you where I missed the first issue and have never found it again, so I must wait for the trade.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2002 5:43 AM

NOFETSUR

The price of comics varies, but the lowest is generally $2.25, which is found on most of Marvel's books and a couple of DC's. I usually get about twenty or so a month (comes to about £30 for me); at twenty a week you must be getting some serious money!

Angel #4 HAS finally been released, just last week! I'm a huge fan of the TV show but I think this mini was a little bland to be honest.

I guess people aren't aware that Fray #1 went into a third printing (alongside second printings of #2 and #3) a couple of months ago? Dark Horse may have some left over; try asking your local comic shop if they're able to order some. But in all honesty you're probably best waiting for the trade edition.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2002 10:21 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonwes: I can' wait to read Fray, but sadly I'm in the boat with many of you where I missed the first issue and have never found it again, so I must wait for the trade.

Last time I checked EBay, somebody was selling Fray 1-6 at a reasonable price. Probably gone by now, but there will be others.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2002 10:27 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by Nofetsur: I guess people aren't aware that Fray #1 went into a third printing (alongside second printings of #2 and #3) a couple of months ago?

When I bought mine a month ago, tfaw.com had second printings of 1-3, and first printings of 5-6. Looked just now, and they only have 3 (second printing) 5 and 6. There's no mention of any third printings. Doesn't this site usually carry all current Dark Horse books?

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Tuesday, June 18, 2002 2:57 PM

MARINO

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft: Quote:
Originally posted by MarinO: I regularly read about twenty comics a week, every week, year 'round. Which is a lot, ask anybody. I'm a serious and sad addict to comics.
I wouldn't call that "addiction". I mean, comics don't exactly take forever to read. And if you take longer because you stop to enjoy the pretty pictures, well that counts as appreciating art. :smile:

Question is, do you buy them all yourself, or do you trade with friends? That's a big expense. Or are other labels cheaper than DH?

Well, you have to keep in mind that comics, or at least the ones I buy, are about three American dollars apiece. Mix in the occasional trade, which I buy routinely, and you're talking anywhere from sixty to one-hundred dollars a week.

And I read everything I buy, but I've gotten most of my friends into comics by letting them borrow the ones I get.

As for how much money I make in order to afford this amount: I'm a writer and occasionally write blurbs, short stories, essays, and the like for local publications. I make decent money doing that, not to mention I've a day job besides. I do okay, though I honestly spend more on this 'hobby' than I really should. Can't help it though. There's simply too much good stuff out nowadays.

And once more, I'll suggest everyone pick up BARRY WEEN. That series has gotten more of my friends into comics than any other. Big time. Check it out. It's about nine bucks for each trade, and they're more than worth it.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2002 7:28 PM

JONWES

I know I could get the indi books if I really wanted, but at this point I figured I'd just wait for the trade and get it all in one handy place.

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