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Georgia may approve public school Bible classes

POSTED BY: FUTUREMRSFILLION
UPDATED: Saturday, February 25, 2023 09:36
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Thursday, March 8, 2007 5:04 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


One wonders how they would approach the subject.

The Bible - Fact or Fiction?


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I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original



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Thursday, March 8, 2007 6:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


If they were smart, they wouldn't deny the possibility of truth to it, while at the same time they would not teach it as truth. I see no reason why this shouldn't be taught. To make blanket statements banning all religion from schools seems to me to be counteractive to the Demos cause and is oppressive to a particular train of thought, though contrary to your own, it is no less valid because you disagree with it. Maybe if they teach both at schools using a fair approach we can all agree on then people on both sides won't have anything to whine about anymore and then we can all move on to the next thing that we're all going to fight about. Considering that it's a public school we're talking about, they should probably make it a humanities class.

Let's be honest here FMF. It's public school. How many kids are actually going to pay any attention to it anyhow?


And to make statements such as "Fact or Fiction?" is just trolling and inflamatory.


Respectfully,

6SJ
Third party who is not convinced that either side is the truth.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:57 PM

SERGEANTX


The surest way to marginalize something is to make it a required course in public school. I say go for it!!!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 9:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


"It's not work that sucks, it's working to build the dreams of others while yours fester and die."

Who said that Sergant? I've seen that before and thought it was one of the great truths of our time.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 9:54 PM

JADEHAND


the problem here is that kids have to wait until college (if they choose to go and are able to go) to really be exposed to a variety of religious thoughts. You can hate a single religious view if you wish, but were you ever truely exposed to each and then given a "free" choice? Do you think a human deserves that choice? I'm not opposed to one view being taught in school. I'm opposed to ONLY one view being taught in school.
Educate. expose the options, allow the choice.
I was disgusted that it took college classes to show me how the "other half" thought. I found my views changing often, and my current views are unimportant, because I don't care if people think like me, only that they think.
Read religious texts, then choose. I don't care what you choose, as long as it's your choice.
I do recommend (selfishly) "The tao of Pooh"
http://www.10ac.com/tao_pooh.htm

"All these years
Truth In front of my eyes
While I denied
What my heart knows was right."
Neverland(Marbles)-Marillion
visit WWW.Marillion.com for a better way of life.



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Friday, March 9, 2007 1:26 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Damn good reply Jadehand! Can I get an AMEN!!!!

Ha! Just kidding you heathens!

Perhaps they should have a class teaching all major religions currently practiced in the world. I know I could use more knowledge about the Queran myself. Shit, it wasn't until a few months ago that I thought it was spelled "Koran" and I'm pretty sure I still got the spelling wrong now.

As a matter of fact, I was born Catholic, though I was never confirmed and I don't really know much about my own religion either. I haven't practiced Lent in like.... this lifetime.

I think public schools should teach religion in a humanities class as an alternative, or as a compliment (so FMF and nearly the entire RWED don't jump on me) to evolution in Science. Then I wouldn't have to hear any more bitching from idiots and extremists on either side ever again.

They could even teach the Tao of Pooh in that class too. Mabye a chapter about imature idiots who make up gods like the Spaghetti monster to sell their books too.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, March 9, 2007 1:52 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Well said Jadehand!

Me personally I see no problem with a Bible course in a public school so long as it is voluntary and not mandatory. Freedom of choice is what is important here. Just as religion should not be forced on anyone I believe that those that want the exposure to religion should be able to get it.

__________________________________________
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Friday, March 9, 2007 3:44 AM

MRBEN


You can't classify the Bible as "fact or fiction" because it is a collection of books that conceivably contain both.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

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Friday, March 9, 2007 3:52 AM

PENGUIN


Religion education belongs at church (and home) and not at school. Period...




King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Friday, March 9, 2007 7:40 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Jadehand:
the problem here is that kids have to wait until college (if they choose to go and are able to go) to really be exposed to a variety of religious thoughts.



My boys went to school in the UK. They had religious class every year and they were exposed to information on all the major religions.

I think it is the only way to get people learn tolerance of anothers religion.

And 6string - the question Fact or Fiction is not trolling. It is a perfectly good question. How much of the bible is fact and how much is fiction? Now thats a class I would find interesting.


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Friday, March 9, 2007 8:51 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
"It's not work that sucks, it's working to build the dreams of others while yours fester and die."

Who said that Sergant? I've seen that before and thought it was one of the great truths of our time.



It was just some guy on the forums at RPG.net. We were discussing the drag of working for 'the man' and I clipped this from one of his posts. I asked him if it was a quote or anything, but he said no. Where else have you heard it?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, March 9, 2007 3:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Thats cool FMF. I think a class like that would be interesting too. Sorry for inferring something that wasn't implied. I've just gotten so used to anything said about the Bible in here as a bash against it. Like I said many times, I'm not a religious man, but when I see all the crap in the world sometimes I really get to thinking that I'd like to believe again someday.

I was serious about learning more about the Quran too. I actually have a copy myself. It's dubbed in english, so who knows how much is lost in translation, just like the Bible. Where I live there happens to be a lot of Muslims as well as Mormans. They always drop literature in the community mailslot by our mailboxes. One day there was about 12 Querans in there and I grabbed one. I just never got around to reading it yet. I would really like to know more about their religion so I can make my own opinions on it instead of what CNN and FOX tell us about the Muslims.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, March 9, 2007 3:57 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey Sergant.

I'm not sure if the quote that I saw was identical to that, but it was so close that I'm sure it's the same. I don't know where I saw it before. Who knows? Maybe I've seen it on his tag before on a forum somewhere. I really liked it though. I'll look around and see if I can find a source.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:11 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


saw a piece on this in the news somewhere. They're billing the classes as " Literature of the Old Testament period" and " Literature of The New Testament period", which the courts have ruled elsewhere as acceptable.

But the ACLU will be watching-- there had better be other books on the curriculum; it had better ne treated as literature and not theology; the teachers had better be careful of what they express of their personal religious beliefs in class; and there had better not even be the suggestion of prayer in the class room.

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Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:42 AM

FIZZIX


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Well said Jadehand!

Me personally I see no problem with a Bible course in a public school so long as it is voluntary and not mandatory. Freedom of choice is what is important here. Just as religion should not be forced on anyone I believe that those that want the exposure to religion should be able to get it.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

[img] [/img]

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Sergeant

[img] [/img]

http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html




As I'm in Georgia, and thus in the knowledge: Not mandatory. If it comes to my school in time, as an atheist, I want to take the class. If it doesn't, I'll take AP Psychology. Ooooh, wait. It's two classes: New and Old Testaments. Which means I'll never get to take it, 'cos I have like, 2 electives left in high school, and I'm a Sophmore.

/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\
May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.

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Monday, March 12, 2007 6:08 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA


The problem with this is it directly violates the constitutional position on the seperation of church and state. This doesn't say that all religions may be intertwined with public institutions, it states that none of them will. Granted, there will always be some intersections, but the spirit of the law would dictate this Class as unconstitutional. Though the bible as literature has been upheld in the lower courts, this may be challenged all the way to the Supreme Court, and as I have stated above, the position on this constitutionally is clear. Even as literature, this could still be argued as support of one particular faith. Though I, when in public school, had a primer on many major religions, that was not so much a study of their guiding texts as it was a brief explanation of their guiding principles. Of course, apart from the minutiae, they were essentially paraphrases of one another.

And as for whomever said that religions such as Pastafarianism ((a.k.a. the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.)) are go se; I would argue they hold as much value as any other, though they may be newer and may be satirical in nature, who is to say they were not divinely inspire by the Great All Powerful Black Lady in the Sky. Or however else you see God, Allah, Yaweh, Brahma, Tao, an Animated ball of Spaghetti and Meatballs with a Noodly Appendage, the Laws of Physics, Zeus, et al.

Finally, do you wish to take the class only to have meaningful spiritual//philosophical discussion with whomever may be teaching it Fizzix? I would understand your position in that case, as a not-strictly-a-christian at a christian school full of zealots. No offense meant to those at my school, but many are so closed off to other ideas and some so xenophobic that I must question their interpretation of the decent morals found in the "Bible." When you've got women saying that because the bible says women are the weaker vessel, women should not hold high positions in politics, business et cetera, then you've got problems.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:45 AM

SHUKES


Here in the UK i have been to catholic schools from age 5 to 18, In primary school i just mostly learnt about christian holidays, then in secondary i was taught in depth about different religions, Then in my GCSE in religion and general R.E lessons in 6th form were more based on debate of ideas of religion. I think that thanks to this i am a better person than id be with out it, i have a deeper knowledge of the world around me which is vital these days and it helped be figure out my out belief in God, i.e. deism.

I think its not a bad idea so long as other relgions are taught, not in a "this is fact/ this is fiction" way but in a, "this is what they believe and this is what they believe - make up your own mind" fashion.

Thats just my opinion.

Shukes

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:02 PM

MOBSTER


Quote:

Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
The problem with this is it directly violates the constitutional position on the seperation of church and state.



Separation of church and state appears no where in the United State's Constitution. The phrase was in a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to a Baptist church, hence it was Jefferson's opinion on how religion should be treated in the States (at least Christianity, which Jefferson was not a a part). All the Constitution says about religion is that the government cannot establish a national religion. The Supreme Court over the years has used the "separation" phrase to justify their opinion, but that's the Supreme Court for ya'.

Why should the Bible be taught in schools? I have no idea. I think this should be a defeat for the Protestant Christian churches in America (not a victory as they will see it) because it shows that the churches aren't doing their jobs in getting the scriptures to the masses who they are supposed to reach.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:45 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Regardless of the Christian element to the Bible (or, rather, the fact that it is the book of Christianity), it's still a piece of literature that has been referenced by authors throughout history. Can Ishmael from Moby Dick have similarities to Ishmael from the Bible (I wouldn't know; I've never read it)? Can some lines from Shakespeare be put into better context by relating them to Biblical verses? So, the Bible as literature (and as a way of influencing the Western world?) is well and good.

I think that it would be better for the class to be sort of a "Comparative Religions" course, because knowing about the religion of a region is important in understanding their culture (like, y'know, if we knew the difference between Sunnis and Shi'ites - or just knew more about them period - maybe... yeah).

And, now, a fun little gem from George Carlin, to tie in with the separation of church and state:

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."


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Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:00 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:
Religion education belongs at church (and home) and not at school. Period...





"Period" is awful final. Sure you don't want to reconsider that?

Saying religion or the bible belong only in church or at home is the same as saying family or the concept of family have no place in school, or that literature or another subject taught in school have no place in the church or home. If the class is not mandatory how is it a problem?

School is for education and the bible holds lessons to be learned even if you are not Christian or don't believe in God or his son. The same is true of the Koran, the teachings of Buddha or any other such text. Closing our minds to such things lessens us as people. They can be taught in a classroom as easily as a home or church. Such things should be offered for those interested, but they should never be forced on anyone for any reason.

Got no problem with religion. Ain't much on it myself, but I have seen plenty who believe who are good people and who do good works. If we deny a voluntary class in a school where there is interest how many are we denying something that may help them to grow? Is it more right to deny it than it is to force it on them? What difference does the venue of that education make so long as it is not forced on those who hold no interest?

Not trying to be confrontational, just curious as to your stand on this subject.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

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Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Sergeant

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 9:21 AM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA


You're right, it doesn't appear in the constitution, but as you said, the supreme court precedent is that Seperation of Church and State is the law of the land. Also, in a Treaty with Tripoli ((I can't remember the Year)) the government states that our country was not based upon Christian religious teachings. Given this, it would still be illegal. I think the trouble would be if a student felt that they were being forced into something, or if the Bible was taught literally. But as I said before, the only really safe way to do this, other than not doing it, would be to provide equal time and focus to all religions, which I would consider nigh impossible.

((Edited to correct a quote))

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Saturday, February 25, 2023 9:36 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Review: Salman Rushdie’s New Book is a Time-Traveling Epic

https://observer.com/2023/02/review-salman-rushdies-new-book-is-a-time
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