FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Expanding an Alternate Refined Timeline

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 20:33
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Thursday, December 25, 2008 12:23 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


This is a long-delayed thread I planned to post about a year ago. So maybe consider it another Christmas Present for those who like this sort of thing.

This is a timeline slightly different from the other one I posted, which refined dates in canon to reduce conflict, and that timeline used canon dates where OiS was the last episode, the first scene in Pilot Serenity was the broadcast one, and the next scene (Salvage) was 6 years after THAT date of BoSV. This version of the timeline will instead use the Original first scene of Pilot Serenity (because the broadcast version was rewritten and shot after the original Pilot was completed, thus the "6 years later" subscript most likely applied to THAT original date of BoSV), and the last episode was The Message, and the episode sequence was that of the original writing and shooting of the episodes, before the rewriting and re-scening of the shows, and rearrangement of their sequence. Episode sequence used for this is Script date 16Oct War Stories, Script date 29-31Oct HoG, script date 12Nov OiS, script date 27Nov Trash, and script date 10,12,16Dec Message. This sequence discussed in this thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=33969
This sequence would include the originally aired scene of OiS, which was deleted from the DVD version but included as bonus material on the DVD.

This may shed more light on the timeline originally envisioned, and hopefully less confusion about the conflicts which arose from rearrangments.
The other Refined Timeline thread is at:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=32184


Late Nov - Early Dec 2493 - Simon Tam is born. (birthday from Out of Gas, year conjecture from actor Zac Efron's portrayal of critical/focused age in Safe - see post from 29 Nov 2016 below.)

Early/mid July 2500 - River Tam is born.

2505 or early 2506 - Research & Rescue Vessel crashed on and investigated Miranda, sent out signal. (BDM, Mal says signal is about 12 years old.) Serenity bluray extras Miranda file specifies 2506.

2506 - Alliance War for Domination begins. War lasted 5 years. Could be August, but "5 years" is fairly vague.
October 2506 - River playing the part of Independent Platoons while Simon is trying to study at the Tam Estate. (flashback scenes from Safe, "11 years earlier"). Even at age 6, River is very aware of the verse outside her realm.

2509 or first half of 2510 - River explains to Alliance teacher that Independents don't like the Alliance to meddle with them. (classroom flashback as intro scene of BDM. Classmates are 12 year olds, River at least 2 years younger as specified in script.)

Late February 2511 - Battle of Du Khang (7 years before The Message, flashbacks with Pvt Tracey).
May 2511 - Battle of Serenity Valley. Starts mid/late May, lasts 7 weeks.
June 2511 - Battle of Serenity Valley. For 3 weeks of June, Independent Command supports ground forces. Last week of June Command withholds and ground forces continue fight without support for another 2 weeks.
July 2511 - Battle of Serenity Valley ends about a week into July, then a week of Peace Negotioations.
Mid July 2511 - Peace Negotiated, Med ships arrive BOSV in Scene 1 (Deleted Scenes of Pilot).

Late Nov - Early Dec 2512 - Mal purchases Firefly class transport ship. (commentary by Tim Minear and David Soloman for Out of Gas says "5 years before".) OR see also 2514.

November 2513 - Jayne Cobb and Stitch Hessian work a job on Higgin's Moon, Jayne ditching Stitch. (from Jaynestown, Stitch let out of the Hotbox after 4 years.)

2514 - Mal purchases Firefly class transport ship - as listed in Alliance "to be bound" file on Malcolm Reynolds, from a deleted scene The Operative looks at in Serenity - I think he saw it on his view-glasses.

August 2514 - River Tam enrolls at the Institute on Osiris, shortly after turning 14 in July. (This assumes academic enrollments are still around August.)

Mid-October 2516 - Inara rents Shuttle on Serenity ("8 months" in TTJ, "few weeks" less than "a year" in BW, "a year" in OiS, "a year" from Sheydra in BDM).
Mid-October 2516 - Jayne defects from Marco's crew to join Serenity. Sole reference for this is "man I met a year ago" in opening scene of Our Mrs. Reynolds.

Early/mid July 2517 - River escapes Institute on Osiris, River is 16. A week or a day before boarding Serenity in Pilot.
Mid July 2517 - Pilot Serenity, 2 day episode. River is 17. Starts 0800/0900 at Carrier salvage, to Persephone, then headed to Boros via Whitefall.
Mid July 2517 - The Train Job, 1 or 2 day episode. Starts at Unification Day Bar on world with 3 moons in sky, leaves atmo with ringed world in background, on to Niska's Skyplex orbiting Ezra and to towns Hancock and Paradiso. Day or so after Pilot.
Mid September 2517 - Bushwhacked.
Mid-late September - Shindig, 4 day episode. Day 1 on Santos, 2&3 on Persephone, day 4 en route to Jiangyin.
Early-Mid October - Safe, 1 day episode. One day on Jiangyin.
18 Oct - 19 or 20 Oct 2517 - Our Mrs. Reynolds. October 18 on Triumph Settlement. Headed for Beaumonde, detoured to place Saffron took Shuttle II.
24 October 2517 - Scheduled to arrive Beaumonde(from Our Mrs. Reynolds).
7 November 2517 - Scheduled to depart Beaumonde (from Our Mrs. Reynolds).
After 13 November - Jaynestown, 2-3 day episode. Will deliver merchandise to Bernoulli by end of week. Jaynestown (Canton) on Higgin's Moon.
Late Nov - early Dec - Out of Gas, 1 day episode. After 19 November, arriving Greenleaf after 26 Nov.
Mid-late Dec 2517 - Ariel, 2-3 day episode.

First half of Jan 2518 - War Stories, 1 or 2 day episode. Starts on Ezra, then to Niska's Skyplex.
Second half of Jan 2518 - Heart of Gold.
First half of February 2518 - Objects in Space, 1 day episode. Will arrive New Melbourne in 3 days.
3rd week February 2518 - Trash, 72 hour episode. At least 3 weeks after War Stories. Starts on empty rock, then to Bellerophon.
3rd week February 2518 - The Message, 3 day episode. Likely a day or so after Trash, Mal is surprised the law is after the Lassiter so quickly. Starts on Space Bazaar, chase and funeral on St. Alban's.
Late February 2518 - Those Left Behind, graphic novel. Starts on Constance. Inarra arrives Training House, a few hours from Haven, where Book ends up.
Mid March 2518 - Operative at the Institute on Osiris, beginning of BDM. Little over 8 months since River escaped early/mid July. A few weeks of Fruity Oat Bar broadwaves before Serenity on Lilac.
Early April 2518 - BDM Serenity, 2 days. Few weeks after Operative launched subliminal triggers from Institute. Serenity on Lilac, then Beaumonde, Haven, Training House, Haven, Miranda, Mr. Universe's place, later Repair Yard. About 8 1/2 months after River boarding in Pilot mid July, River is 17.



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Thursday, December 25, 2008 12:24 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Changes.

Mal's "half year back" is now from 18 October to 3rd week of February, over 4 months. Not bad estimation under duress while looking down the barrel of Saffron's pistol. He's not likely to figure, about 4 months and 1 week. An acceptable inaccuracy.

Inara's rental of Shuttle. Her "8 months" in Train Job could easily be anywhere between 8 and 9 months, so as early as mid-October 2516. Her "few weeks" short of "a year" in Bushwhacked could refer to almost 11 months since mid-October. This would mean there might be no discrepancy between her offically recorded rental of Serenity and the actual date. Her "a year" in OiS refers to 16 months now. Sheydra's mention of "a year" of Inara on Serenity would be the 16-17 months, an acceptable and reasonable abbreviation.
This does pop up that oft discussed anomaly of no episodes in August 2517. However, in hindsight, the interactions between Jayne/Simon, River/everybody in Train Job seem quite new, while in Bushwhacked they seem more settled - so this could very well have been a month or more between episodes.

Some disagreement exists regarding whether Jayne or Inara joined up first, and this shows they are about the same time (solely based upon Jayne's line in OMR). I always thought it unusual that Inara would clarify she would not entertain crew if Jayne was not aboard - Mal she supposedly likes, Zoe & Wash are married, Kaylee likes guys, so who is she worried about?

The dates of the Battle of Serenity Valley, Unification Day, and the 6 years later in Pilot Serenity are much better meshed.

Simon's "2 months aboard" in Safe is now about 2 months and 3 weeks up to just under 3 months, still a reasonable abbreviation.

Sheydra's "these past months" from BDM script include the last week of February, all of March, and the first week or so of April. Without this reference, the dates from Trash until TLB would be shifted later several weeks. This would make Mal's "half year" from OMR to Trash a little under 5 months.
With TLB at the end of February, when the Hands of Blue end their River assignment, and the Operative is then given the assignment, he ends up at Institute in Mid March or maybe later. This seems a bit of delay for such an urgent mission, one would think. Negating the "these past months" reference and shifting TLB a few weeks later would make this transition from Hands of Blue to Operative a bit quicker.

With this timeline, based on the original scripts and episode sequences, almost all of the timeline conflicts are resolved, the 2 biggest remaining are Mal's "half year back" between OMR and Trash, and Sheydra's "these past months" of Inara being at Training House from TLB until the main body of BDM Serenity (from script, all of Sheydra's scenes were deleted from BDM). These 2 minor conflicts push against each other in the timeline, when one gives, the other gets more time; however, they are both reasonably accounted for as acceptable abbreviations of time passage, I think.

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Thursday, December 25, 2008 12:24 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Part 3. Conclusions.

This timeline seems to provide the least amount of conflicts. This most likely due to the originating timeline used by the writers (and Joss), before the network rejected the Pilot and the rewriting ensued, and before the network cancelled the show, interrupting the time and story arcs, and causing the reshuffling of episodes and time references.

This is by far my favorite timeline to use. However, those who insist upon following Joss' preferred resequenced and rewritten Pilot and episodes would want to use another of the proposed timelines.

The pinion points in the timeline are:
1. Our Mrs Reynolds, the only specific date in the entire timeline,
2. Unification Day, coming about 8 or 9 weeks after the start of BoSV in May, and celebrated in TTJ,
3. BDM Serenity is less than 9 months after Pilot Serenity.

All the other times can move about between these.

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Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:39 AM

AG05


I remember Zoe recalling an event during "the winter campaign" in War Stories. She mentioned a location, but I cannot recall the name. Was this Du Khang, or another battle?

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 4:48 AM

GROTZ



Early's ship appears in trash. So trash happen before OiS.
Or is this a conflict earlier discussed?

Vote for BDM/FF at http://stargate-news.com/

Never kiss'em on the mouth.

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Sunday, December 28, 2008 7:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Grotz:

Early's ship appears in trash. So trash happen before OiS.
Or is this a conflict earlier discussed?

Vote for BDM/FF at http://stargate-news.com/

Never kiss'em on the mouth.



Where does it appear in Trash?

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Monday, December 29, 2008 4:29 PM

GROTZ


In the room where they steal the lassiter. The camera looks out the window. It is very brief.
It is at 21min 56sek on dvd.
Hope it is helpful. cheers.

P.S. random note at 40min 50sek you can hear Wash whisper "I didnt know he was jewish", I just found out. Hilarious!

Vote for BDM/FF at http://stargate-news.com/

Never kiss'em on the mouth.

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Monday, December 29, 2008 7:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Grotz:
In the room where they steal the lassiter. The camera looks out the window. It is very brief.
It is at 21min 56sek on dvd.
Hope it is helpful. cheers.

P.S. random note at 40min 50sek you can hear Wash whisper "I didnt know he was jewish", I just found out. Hilarious!

Vote for BDM/FF at http://stargate-news.com/

Never kiss'em on the mouth.



But it is not Jubal's craft, right? Jubal does not have a unique craft, does he? he has one model of many made. Firefly models are rare because they ended their lifecycle long ago, being decades old. also the Trans-U is no longer in service, due to it's age. But Jubal's is a newer craft, and many of that model are available - surely on a wealthy locale like Bellerophon they are around, and Jubal would not likely get that close to Haymer's place without notice, would he?

Or is there some indication that this specific craft is Jubal's?

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Monday, December 29, 2008 8:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AG05:
I remember Zoe recalling an event during "the winter campaign" in War Stories. She mentioned a location, but I cannot recall the name. Was this Du Khang, or another battle?

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.



This was the anecdote with the Grizwalds, the grenades in the apples, IIRC. Could not find a location or time reference in the script or show, and there were 4 or 5 winters during the war - unless they decided to only fight the wars on the summer hemispheres of each world, which might be more reasonable for warcraft.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:35 AM

GROTZ


There is no specifik indication, other than it look like early's ship. But remember it was put there consciencely with special effects.
It is just a great detail, that Early is on their tail.

Happy new year.

Vote for BDM/FF at http://stargate-news.com/

Never kiss'em on the mouth.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Grotz:
There is no specifik indication, other than it look like early's ship. But remember it was put there consciencely with special effects.
It is just a great detail, that Early is on their tail.

Happy new year.

Vote for BDM/FF at http://stargate-news.com/

Never kiss'em on the mouth.



There was some commentary about the special effects use of ships. Once Zoic created a ship, able to be cgi'd from all angles, it would be used in the shots around the verse. Different ship types would get used repeatedly, so they weren't forced to create completely new ships for every new world and every new episode. Only the Firefly and the Trans-U were not copied. Supposedly this sort of re-use ploy was how they came up with the castalyzer prop being used in Ariel after it was in OoG.

Otherwise, what would be the point of Jubal waiting a month or more (if using a thread based upon the DVD sequence of episodes) while traveling between several worlds before taking River? That does not seem to make sense.

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Monday, February 2, 2009 12:26 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


One possible conflict with this timeline is where Inara rents the Shuttle in Oct 2516, and then Dec 2516 would be the Annual Companion Exam she needed to take, one year before Ariel. In Ariel, it would be her second time Serenity needed to divert for her Exam, yet everybody seems to not be familiar with the idea. Perhaps it could be attributed to shyness among the crew the first time, her being such a high-society person, and them not wanting to be too inquisitive.

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Monday, February 2, 2009 8:00 AM

LEEDAVIDT


kool thread...just found it...the timeline you discovered is very informative... thanx :)

Wash: Little River gets more colorful by the moment. What'll she do next?
Zoe: Either blow us all up or rub soup in our hair. It's a toss-up.
Wash: I hope she does the soup thing, it's always a hoot and we don't all die from it.
. . .
Zoë: Where's River at now?
Mal: In her room, which I'm thinking we bolt from the outside from now on.
Wash: That a little extreme, isn't it?
Jayne: Anyone remember her comin' at me with a butcher's knife?
Wash: [reminiscently] Wacky fun…
Jayne: You wanna go, little man?
Wash: Only if it's someplace with candlelight.
Zoe: Sir, I know she's unpredictable. But I don't think she'd harm anyone.
Jayne: Butcher's knife?!
Zoe: Anyone we can't spare.


http://www.myspace.com/leedavidt


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Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I just updated the dates for Jaynestown and Out of Gas.

I just realized that the Out of Gas timeframe could very well have been Thanksgiving.
Along with Ariel being the Christmas Episode, both seem appropriate.
Would also make Simon's birthdate a Day of Thanks in some years.

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Monday, March 10, 2014 6:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


bump.

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Thursday, July 28, 2016 7:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Updated with Serenity purchase year of 2514, from the Alliance "to be bound" file for Malcolm Reynolds.
Derived from this thread, with linky to the poster:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=13&tid=60712


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Monday, November 28, 2016 8:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


The passing of Ron Glass jogged my noggin.
He was only 57 when playing Book. The character was far older.

The ages of the adults are less defined. The ages of the minors as portrayed are more defined, more age critical.

So in Safe, River is played as a 6 year old by 8 year old Skylar Roberge, and Simon is played by 15 year old Zac Efron. The age difference of the child actors is 7 years. The age difference of the role of River and the actor playing Simon is 9 years.
It might be of note that Skylar was born in July, as River is surmised to have been, and Zac was born in October, as the timeline indicates Simon nearly was as well.

Anyhow, this may lead to the conclusion that Simon was not born 10 years before River (2490 and 2500), being turning 27 in Out of Gas while River was 17 for the duration of her time onscreen.
The character age in flashbacks of "Safe" to October 2506 ("11 years earlier") would be 6 for River, and then 13 for Simon, with actors performing for roles 2 years younger than they are in 2002. This could also mean that with the advancements in age and health, children grow quicker in the 2500's

Anyhow, barring any canonical evidence, which I have not seen, I think Simon's year of birth should be adjusted to 2493 from 2900. This would make his Birthday in Out of Gas as his 24th.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2016 7:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


OK, completed that post.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:33 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


error.

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