FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Jayne's Love Interests

POSTED BY: LAWMAN
UPDATED: Friday, December 17, 2010 00:34
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Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:42 PM

LAWMAN


So I'm thinking that Jayne might really like Kaylee and if not for Simon, he might actually act upon his feelings (as many of you have commented about). And than I says to myself, I says, hmmm, Jayne could have certainly heard more talked about Kaylee's personal intimate habits in the movie. And then I vaguely remember Jayne saying to Zoe that he'd be willing to pinch her in Jaynestown episode (when Zoe says something about pinch her because of Jayne's hero status). And there are several references to Jayne's interests in Inara in Out of Gas as well as the Counselor's visit to Inara. Abit weird but Jayne does say that Simon's sister is kind of cute too to lawman. And then I says to myself, I says, "aside from Patience, Jayne has pretty much shown interest in every female he comes across."

that's why I never kiss 'em on the lips.

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Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:50 PM

WORLDOFHIGLET


I'm sure you're right. Jayne strikes me as the type of person who thinks 'if it moves, hump it, if it don't move, push it....'. He is a man of simple pleasures, who is also a little simple. That's why we love and hate him!

You are beholden to no man
http://worldofhiglet.blogspot.com/

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Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:52 PM

PIRATECAT


You forgot when Jayne got sexed in Heart of Gold. He likes the women. Serenity has all babes on it. Now for Kaylee that's his little sister maybe a slight crush because she is smart with tools. When she was shot he worried and proud about her scheme on getting the lasiter.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Thursday, March 20, 2008 2:51 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Yep, I think his feelings for Kaylee are those of a big brother. It comes out at the dinner table in Serenity when he's making fun of her for showing interest in Simon.

Other than that, Jayne has friends that will screw anything that moves and Jayne always asks them, "Why are you limiting yourself?"


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Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:53 PM

HUGHFF


Jayne doesn't have love interests; he has sex interests.

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Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:17 PM

LAWMAN


not to talk about another series in this thread, but kirk in star trek always seemed to get the ladies. just think its interesting that Jayne gets a lot of ladies (Jaynestown & Heart of Gold) for being what he is. i still think he'd sleep with any of the women on the ship if he had an opportunity to do so. except for River, cause that's a bit downright unsettling, but then again, i could stand to hear a little more.

i'll be in my bunk

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Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:38 PM

MSB


Jayne just enjoys women. He treats them well and is generally kind if crude... what's not to like:)

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Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:26 AM

SPACEANJL


Yeah, the key word is 'women'. I don't think Jayne would be interested in fragile flowers, somehow. He'd like a woman who can sex him up, and then cook him breakfast

That's why I think that once he gets over the general weirdness factor, he's going to treat River like a bratty little sister - after all, he and Simon bicker like siblings already. Part of the reason being, Jayne's little crush on Kaylee, which never really got off the ground before the Doc horned in.

Of course, you have to figure that the poor man is trapped on board that ship with a whole bunch of women he can't touch - hence the need to misbehave on shore leave.

He's a man of simple pleasures. And his lack of emotional baggage is refreshing. Plus, the muscles, the blue eyes, the guitar playing and that dirty grin don't hurt...

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:46 AM

JIMMYCHANGA


Jayne doesn't seriously act on any impulses relating to the crew members because he has to live with them and he's smart enough to know that would interfere in all sorts of ways (including, but not limited to, shore leave activities)...IMHO

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We gotta go to the crappy town where I'm the hero."

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Friday, March 28, 2008 12:02 AM

SPACEANJL


Plus, all of them are capable of either hurting him, or having Mal hurt him...

With Jayne, the body maybe forty, but the mind is still fourteen, most of the time. There's a fabulous description of him in 'Serenity Found' - "he wasn't great at school, was deeply loyal to his friends and family, liked trucks and guns and beer and women he could understand. Anything else was deeply suspicious." That's our boy.


(But as anyone who has seen my BSR stuff knows, I have a weakness for the big lug.)

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 10:59 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I think that Kaylee is everyone's little sister on Serenity (except Simon). But seeing him outside the infirmary window in the pilot looking in on Simon treating Kaylee; and how he responded when the Fed shot her; and his teasing of her, makes me think that he definitely has a crush on her.
He's a simple man, yes, with simple pleasures. But he doesn't know how to talk to Kaylee. He prefers the loose women because he knows what to say to them. Let's go. Were it not for Mal, I think he would have hit on her in his own unique way.




Didn't she shoot you once?

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:04 AM

NCBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Plus, all of them are capable of either hurting him, or having Mal hurt him...

With Jayne, the body maybe forty, but the mind is still fourteen, most of the time. There's a fabulous description of him in 'Serenity Found' - "he wasn't great at school, was deeply loyal to his friends and family, liked trucks and guns and beer and women he could understand. Anything else was deeply suspicious." That's our boy.


(But as anyone who has seen my BSR stuff knows, I have a weakness for the big lug.)



Yep, too many of them around here. But sometimes one of them will surprise you.

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:03 PM

PLATONIST


May I suggest checking out "Better Days" (the only canon we’ve had written in 3 years) for fun insights into these characters? Jayne's fantasy is hilarious, and his conversation with Simon about Companions shouldn't be missed.

And, yeah, Jayne definitely has a crush on Kaylee.

And, River's fantasy partner is like bizarre, which confirms that she is out there even when she's not harboring governmental cover-ups.

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Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:45 AM

WYTCHCROFT


i agree about Jayne's crush for sure.

also - in general i sometimes see Jayne as a Titus Pullo type, for those who have seen Rome. They are similarly blood thirsty yet big hearted. I see their love interests as similar - and their discontent with peacetime (although Cobb is not the rank and file soldier that Pullo was initially). Both are nervous of the protocols of romance - get angry if considered slow, or uncouth just for their background... and yet can also show awareness of their inability to mix in society 'above their station'.

Obviously people that hate Rome may disagree - but Little John will do for a similar archetype.

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Tuesday, April 29, 2008 6:18 AM

EARLYWARNING


"ooo....ooo...ooo....eah!...eaah..."

"Jayne love Jayne"

"ughh"

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Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:20 AM

RAINSTICK


i agree with those who say that Jayne primarily takes sexual interest in women, not love interest.
i would also say that he sees women as objects. considering he calls his favourite gun "Vera" and wants to trade "her" for Saffron because Vera is "miles more worthy than what you have got", it is clear that he has a low regard for women in general.
with his crewmates, though, i think it's more complicated. he kinda likes Kaylee and thinks she needs protecting and might actually think of her more as a little sister (as discussed by others). i guess he finds Zoe attractive but she is off-limits for different reasons: 1. she is tough, which he respects and might even fear in her; and 2. she is married, which, keeping in mind the references to his own family (esp. his mother), tells a lot about his kind of (twisted) value system.
of course Jayne finds Inara attractive, but she is totally out of his league, and even would be without the rule about not servicing crew members. he seems to be fantasizing about her though. Just think about the "i'll be in my bunk" reference when Inara welcomes her female client.
finally, River actually freaks him out on several occasions. despite thinking she is cute, to him she is just an object to be turned in in return for profit. it is only in "Ariel" I think that he comes to think of River as someone a bit like Kaylee (puts her in the "needs protection" pigeon hole) when Simon explains to him what has been done to her, so that he then tries to get them out of the hospital earlier than he originally intended (thus avoiding the Feds he had sold them out to before).
Okay, I am digressing and over-analyzing, sorry.

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Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:06 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


You are absolutely spot on about Jayne's relationships with the womenfolk of Serenity. We got a quick glimpse of his respect for Zoe in the pilot when he went after the lawman. Zoe cocked her sawed-off and he knows "she'll shoot". Plus I agree that he respects that she's a married women possibly due to his upbringing and, of course, Mom. His "that's downright unsettling" line in War Stories is telling also. He sees Zoe and Mal as 2 war buddies and not as lovers. (OK, I digress too).
A simple man with simple pleasures, indeed, but a complicated man. There's so much more. I can't wait to see more of our BDHs. Hello is anyone listening.

Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

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Monday, May 19, 2008 12:05 PM

DIVINEMACABRE


I didn't see his slight affection for Kaylee as anything more then innocent..I agree with it being said they had a sibling sort of relationship. It was really hard for me to see Kaylee in any sort of sexual light tho..lol...QUITE the shock when it was revealed how she became crew on Out of Gas...lol...I mean..I get that she was an adult..and of course would have them urges..and her continuous flirtation with Simon aside..she had this playfulness about her that when the time came for me to see that scene, I did cover my eyes a little goin' "OMG" and i couldn't stop giggling..

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Monday, May 19, 2008 3:35 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Quote:

DivineMacabre wrote:
Monday, May 19, 2008 12:05
...It was really hard for me to see Kaylee in any sort of sexual light tho..lol...QUITE the shock when it was revealed how she became crew on Out of Gas...lol...I mean..I get that she was an adult..and of course would have them urges.... I did cover my eyes a little goin' "OMG" and i couldn't stop giggling..



I'm with you on this one. In spite of how Mal found her, she just seems so innocent most of the time and then she has lines like, "Do they have boy whores?" or "It's been so long since I had somethin' between my nethers that didn't run on batteries ...." and it always makes me chuckle.

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Monday, May 19, 2008 6:46 PM

TILLIESONG


Inara said, "One of the virtues of not being puritanical about sex is not being embarrassed afterwards."

When Mal first meets Kaylee in the flashback she turns her back for modesty as she's rearranging her clothes, but says "Hello!" with no shame. She's not embarrassed; in her world sex is natural. She is a sexual being, but it's matter-of-fact like her knack with machinery. She's sunny and innocent, not hard or worldly.

I also agree that she's not as attractive to Jayne for that very reason; he's attracted to very worldly, experienced women like his Mudder groupie and the whore at the Heart of Gold. I believe her sunny quality makes him think of her in a more brotherly fashion.

But he's powerfully aware of any female presence in his vicinity; as Mal says, "Would be you get your most poetical about your pecker."




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Monday, May 19, 2008 10:04 PM

RAINSTICK


Quote:

Originally posted by TillieSong:


But he's powerfully aware of any female presence in his vicinity; as Mal says, "Would be you get your most poetical about your pecker."






Wash said that, I think.

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Monday, May 19, 2008 10:06 PM

SPACEANJL


I think Jayne in love would be a very different thing from Jayne being, well, Jayne as the crew know him. (Hell, I got 60,000+ words to argue my case )

His whole journey through the series and the BDM was his discovery that there are things you can't buy and shouldn't try to. And if the crew started to treat him as more than a gun and a filthy mouth I think he'd surprise them.

eg;

“You saying I don’t listen to my crew?”

“I’m saying you don’t listen to me. Let me off the leash when you want killin’ done, then it’s ‘back in yer bunk, Jayne, an’ don’t scare the ladies.’ Bin on this boat near three years an’ you trust to River more’n me.”

“River never tried to sell us out.” Hangs over the conversation like a poison cloud. Mal can see shame under the anger.

“I got stupid, once. Bin at your back solid ‘fore and since. But that don’t matter none, do it? ‘M just the big gun with no feelings."

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:08 PM

TILLIESONG


SpaceAnjl: Could you post a link to some of them 60,000 words? Love to read 'em, but still kinda new and don't know where to look.

Rainstick: I knew that... (thanks!)

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:21 PM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."


Quote:

Originally posted by TillieSong:
SpaceAnjl: Could you post a link to some of them 60,000 words? Love to read 'em, but still kinda new and don't know where to look.

Click on "Blue Sun Room",...at the top of the page, look for Spaceanjl's story...maybe they will post the name for you.









Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion

...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:13 AM

SPACEANJL


Erm, if you really want to read 'em, click on my name, top of my reply, and my BSR stuff should be listed on my page.

It's mostly canon, post-BDM and has a disturbing Jayne fetish running through it. But if the Hero of Canton floats your boat, enjoy! (It's also basically chronological: 'Another Girl, Another Planet' is the first.)

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:27 AM

PLATONIST


Jayne wants no-strings attached multiple partner sex with no complications. Where I'm standing that looks pretty good. Why would he need to change or arc?

This isn't Wash, Mal, or Simon... different characters are written for a purpose, they can't all want the same thing, check out "Better Days" for their fantasies and Jayne's reaction to Wash/Zoe's sappy love talk, it's of course, hilarious.

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 5:32 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Platonist:
Jayne wants no-strings attached multiple partner sex with no complications. Where I'm standing that looks pretty good. Why would he need to change or arc?

I'm thinking of Jane Austen's famous line: "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife."

By which she meant - women want this man for a husband, so they make it a rule that he *must* want a wife.

Just an observation.

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:15 AM

SPACEANJL


Oddly enough, I got the idea for Jayne wanting to settle down from an interview with AB himself, and Joss' idea that he wanted to see a sweeter(!) side to the character.

Plus, I rather like the idea of Jayne being the (smug) happily married man on board, with Simon and Mal looking at each other with 'how the hell...' expressions.


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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:34 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Oddly enough, I got the idea for Jayne wanting to settle down from an interview with AB himself, and Joss' idea that he wanted to see a sweeter(!) side to the character.

I'm all for this - like in Dead or Alive where Jayne has some stuffed animal he's into. Too funny! Lord, I wish they'd filmed that!

Thing is, a bit of "sweet" doesn't mean Jayne's going to go all self-aware and start talking about his feelings all the time. Ick! I just don't see this in his personality.


Quote:

Plus, I rather like the idea of Jayne being the (smug) happily married man on board, with Simon and Mal looking at each other with 'how the hell...' expressions.
To me, this seems to assume that marriage is the end all be all. Jayne is smug about it, Simon and Mal envy it.... I'm just not into that! I'm refreshed by a show that isn't fully focused on matrimony and life-long pairings, and characters who don't adhere to the Americana Domestic Bliss way of life.

I realize I'm weird and in the minority.

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:43 PM

PLATONIST


AB also thought Jayne should be paired up with Inara, at which Joss replied, "no...don't think so...no...absolutly not!"

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:03 PM

SPACEANJL


Now I know you've read some of my stuff, Mal4Prez, so you know that Jayne doesn't do self-aware and navel-gazing. He does do gloating, because he knows it annoys Mal. (You ain't gettin' any, and I am, and I don't need to pay for it or share it, neither...)

'Sides, with Wash gone, you need someone to fill the role of normal married couple that Joss wanted for the Washburnes.

Granted, the relationship is a fairly major part of what I wrote, but it was something to fit in with the crew as a whole. From Jayne's point of view, after all, Zoe got wed, Kaylee's got the Doc, Mal's all slushy after 'Nara, so why shouldn't he get some? (And don't go thinkin' about him and the crazy, 'cos he don't chase children, and Li'l Wing is downright scary, anyhow...)

Oh, and I 'borrowed' the fuzzy turtle - it lives next to the guitar, in the ammo crate with the rocket launcher and the really good grenades...

ps - also not into 'Friends in Space'/space-spawn and total happy ever after. But I still think on Mal and Simon looking at each other and trying to fit the concept of Jayne and marriage into their minds, without dwelling on their own inability to get their love-lives sorted. C'mon, it's kinda funny.


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Friday, May 23, 2008 5:14 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Now I know you've read some of my stuff, Mal4Prez, so you know that Jayne doesn't do self-aware and navel-gazing. He does do gloating, because he knows it annoys Mal.

Sorry - wasn't pointing that at you entirely. It's the whole "Teddy Bear Jayne" thing that I don't get. I don't think you do TB Jayne, but lots of fics do.

Gotta say though - this line made me scratch my head: "‘M just the big gun with no feelings." OK - so true of Jayne's situation! I can see an episode based on this concept (as Jaynestown pretty much is) and I can see Jayne feeling this way, but him saying it? Out loud?

Nah - I can't go there. This seems like a show-don't-tell thing for me. Jayne may have deeper feelings than many give him credit for, but part of his charm is his own lack of awareness about himself. Once he starts having talks about his feelings, more than "Don't make no sense... don't know why it eats at me so..." I'm lost. I like him being thick-headed. Seems a cornerstone of who he is.


Quote:

'Sides, with Wash gone, you need someone to fill the role of normal married couple that Joss wanted for the Washburnes.
Do we? Why?

Quote:

From Jayne's point of view, after all, Zoe got wed, Kaylee's got the Doc, Mal's all slushy after 'Nara, so why shouldn't he get some?
Again - why? Jayne certainly wants to "get some", but how does that relate to monogamy and marriage?

Quote:

(And don't go thinkin' about him and the crazy, 'cos he don't chase children, and Li'l Wing is downright scary, anyhow...)
Soooooo agreeing with you here LOL!

Quote:

Oh, and I 'borrowed' the fuzzy turtle - it lives next to the guitar, in the ammo crate with the rocket launcher and the really good grenades...
OK, this I can totally see. The turtle could have become as much a fixture on the set as Mal's red button. In a much funnier way!

Quote:

But I still think on Mal and Simon looking at each other and trying to fit the concept of Jayne and marriage into their minds, without dwelling on their own inability to get their love-lives sorted. C'mon, it's kinda funny.
Yeah, Ok. There's humor in that... if only I could make the scene play in my head. My understanding of Jayne is just too different from yours! I can't make Jayne=happily married man for the rest of his life fit into my brain. It won't go! Square peg, round hole, don't fit LOL!

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Friday, May 23, 2008 5:53 AM

SPACEANJL


Yeah, that was kind of the point!

Of course Jayne wanting to get married and being faithful is unexpected. (Though it's rooted in his ideas of possessing things - 'got a ring on her finger, says she's mine')

I mean *adopts solemn tone* I'm just trying to continue in Joss' fine tradition of subverting our expectations of people...nah, can't keep a straight face.

Anyway, Jayne's grumble about being thought of as 'just a gun' comes just before Mal lets him take a large knife to a fella, in search of answers to more than the meaning of life. So I think that balances it a little. ('Found yer tongue? Good. Saves me reachin' down your throat for it...')


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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:44 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Yeah, that was kind of the point!

What was? That it's unexpected? Hmm.... OK, that argument has merit. The unexpected is a brilliant part of the Joss-ness I love!

Still... unexpected for the sake of unexpected isn't enough. It has to be in character, or have some damned good reason it isn't. Like when Cordy slept with Angel's son. Man, I still can't get over that! Even if it was explained eventually, it just wigged me out! *ew!*

Quote:

Anyway, Jayne's grumble about being thought of as 'just a gun' comes just before Mal lets him take a large knife to a fella, in search of answers to more than the meaning of life.
Context can add a lot to a few lines of dialog LOL!


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Wednesday, July 9, 2008 9:48 PM

ELKSWORTHY


I was really surprised at the amount of fiction surrounding Jayne's love interests, because he strikes me as a person who doesn't exactly require strong personal connections to thrive. If he were to get married, I don't think that it would be until age started to creep up on him.

Also, I think that Jayne's affection for Kaylee is purely platonic. And it wouldn't work out between them anyway, because she's a genuinely good person and Jayne... well, not so much.

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Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:16 AM

SPACEANJL


See, this is where I disagree. Jayne plays the hardass, and the lone wolf, but I think the big key to him is the need to belong and be taken seriously.

His behaviour with Kaylee is part big brother, and part the nasty boy at school who takes the piss to cover up his crush. Kaylee probably grew up surrounded by blokes like him, and consequently isn't interested.



('Sides, in my fanfic, he married the ship's cook. We know how the man loves to eat.)

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Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:54 AM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."


I think Jayne and Kayle came from the same kind of background, he may like her, but he wants something different(?), and Kayle wants something better. IMHO


Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion


...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:09 AM

ELKSWORTHY


Actually, I was going to mention that if Jayne got married, I think that it would be a traditional marriage where the woman did the cooking and such. So I agree with you on that. :) I'm sure that if the opportunity to marry yokel-Saffron came along, he'd take it... but of course, that's not really love. XD

I didn't really consider the idea of Jayne having a love interest on the ship, since all the girls are quite uninterested in him. If there were another woman added to the crew, and she did meet Jayne's needs, I can see him marrying her... but I think that it would be more for comfort than for love. I think that Jayne craves a relationship with benefits like sex and meals, and isn't really concerned about whether or not love enters the picture.

Kaylee's sort of the little sister of the ship, which is why I don't see her as a love interest for anyone but Simon. Everybody else feels the need to protect her in the same way Simon feels about River.


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Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:19 AM

SPACEANJL


Elksworthy - ....!! I'm married, and I do the cooking because I'm better at it than my husband! Incidentally, if you watch the series, you may notice that in one scene, Jayne is quite happily cooking while Book chops veggies for him.

I have to say that my Mrs Cobb is not a meek little Stepford type. I think it would be more fair to say that Jayne meets her needs, so she decided to stay.

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Saturday, August 2, 2008 2:54 PM

INSTANTKARMAGIRL


Okay, here's my thoughts.

Jayne loves his mother, that's evident.

I think Jayne loves women and sex, yes, but he wants to be loved. I think that Jayne doesn't feel like he's GOOD enough for the women on the ship.

If you look at Heart of Gold, he wasn't just getting "frisky" witht he prosititute...he was huggin' on her, cuddlin' with her, BRUSHING her hair.

I think Jayne does have a sweeter side to him. I think the Jayne wants a women to love him. He's got walls and he doesn't think highly of himself.

I think if any one of the women on Serenity could be a match for Jayne ('cept Inara) and I think he'd treat each one of them with a lot of respect if they were his girl.

Just my thoughts...but I'm a pro-Jayne girl.

How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such? ~Cap'n Mal

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Tuesday, August 5, 2008 10:35 AM

JAYNESMANE


That's interesting. I never really looked at Jayne as one who took love or romance seriously at all, I've always seen him as the sort of naive one when it came to that topic. But you've raised lots of interesting points.

---
http://www.freewebs.com/optics233/index.htm - my website - learn how to make money online filling out surveys.

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Wednesday, August 6, 2008 10:32 AM

INSTANTKARMAGIRL


Quote:

Originally posted by JaynesMane:
That's interesting. I never really looked at Jayne as one who took love or romance seriously at all, I've always seen him as the sort of naive one when it came to that topic. But you've raised lots of interesting points.



Oh, I think he's naive on the topic too, but I think he's interested in learning. I'm sure he doesn't go out looking for love for anything, but if it smacked him in the fact, I think eventually he'd accept it.

Jayne's a loner and it's easier for him to NOT get too involved with anyone. But he doesn't treat women poorly. He respects Zoe when she's in charge...he might think HE should be in charge, but he still respects her. He treats Kaylee with kid gloves (sometimes not thinking as men in Joss's universes sometimes do and sayin the wrong thing) and he's never out right disrespected Inara either. And with River, well, Jayne has complex feelings because on one hand, she's a danger to him and to his "career". I think if we'd seen the series continued, we would have seen a softer side of Jayne towards her.

*sigh*

~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal

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Monday, August 11, 2008 8:50 AM

GILOVE2DANCE


Quote:

I think if we'd seen the series continued, we would have seen a softer side of Jayne towards her.


I totally and completly agree with this. I love the idea of him getting all soft around River.

Jayne may look and make crude comments, but he never touches an unwilling woman. In Jaynestown after saying that he'll pinch Zoe, he walks around her and doesn't even try to touch her. He never comes in contact with Inara and he only touches any of the women when they initiate the contact.

I think he's very respectful deep down in that dark heart of his...I just love looking at his arms...sigh

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Monday, August 11, 2008 10:31 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Elksworthy:
I was really surprised at the amount of fiction surrounding Jayne's love interests, because he strikes me as a person who doesn't exactly require strong personal connections to thrive. If he were to get married, I don't think that it would be until age started to creep up on him.

Also, I think that Jayne's affection for Kaylee is purely platonic. And it wouldn't work out between them anyway, because she's a genuinely good person and Jayne... well, not so much.



well Jayne is one of my very favorites on the show, so of course I find any discussion (or fan fic about) his love life interesting...

I thought he was clearly jealous of Kaylee's interest in Simon in the pilot episode, not that he would do anything about it because I'm pretty sure Zoe had let him know that she could hurt him if he messed her about.... (my own imagining you understand)

Adam Baldwin said that he was imagining that Jayne had a crush on Inara when he made 'Serenity' and that actually makes a lot sense: Jayne wants to be like Mal, he wishes to have what Mal has... so it is only natural that he would want Inara!

But I definitely get a kick out of fan fic pairing Jayne w/River...
or Simon! LOL

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:19 AM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK


O.K. I'm coming late to this thread, so I had a lot to catch up on, but I'm glad I did. To avoid spending 15 paragraphs offering my own slightly different version of opinions already stated (as some of y'all know I am always in danger of doing), I'd like to raise a select few points that, somewhat surprisingly perhaps, haven't been raised yet.

1) It's cool to speculate, but without knowing anything about Jayne's father and the role he played in his up-bringing, or any other "substitute" father figure, any guesses we have about his view of monogamy and long-term relatinships is an uneducated guess at best. Though some of us like to claim we can leave all that behind, our own childhoods stamp us forever with a preconception of what a family "looks like," right or wrong. Not to say that we all follow that same path, but it has a huge influence. I'm tempted to interpret some of Jayne's interactions with Mal as Jayne seeing Mal in a fatherly light, which would tend to mean that Jayne's dad wasn't around much or at all for one reason or another, but I'm really reaching on that one.

2) When Jayne is in the Heart of Gold, he is on the stairs with two women, but we only ever see him "with" one. And it is the *same* one in at least two different scenes. There were no other customers, and no other Serenity crew taking "trade," so he could have hopped around and sampled more of what the establishment had to offer, and so I have to wonder why he didn't. No practical barrier, so it must have been something emotional, on some level. Not sure what it was, but it definitely relates to his view of women, somehow.

3) In The Message, Jayne says to Book "Life like mine don't last long, preacher." Now, looking at that in context, we know that Jayne has a mother who is in need of financial support. We can therefore fairly safely assume that his father is either unable to work or is completely out of the picture, either dead or run off. (I would guess dead or run off rather than invalid...no hard fact reason, invalid just doesn't "feel" right.) So, possibly Jayne sees a man's primary role as that of provider (certainly we have evidence that he thinks of himself as a 'protector' which is not far off in any event) and his biggest reason for not wanting to settle down isn't a lack of maturity or apathy/hostility toward monogamy, but rather a deeper respect for the institution and the knowledge that someday soon he may be too dead to keep up his end of such a commitment.

Note that none of the above necessarily makes Jayne any less hard-headed, crude, etc. than what we see in the show. Just some speculation about Jayne's deeper values. I don't think Jayne's "live fast, die young" attitude is an act or an "emotional wall," but I do think that beneath that attitude, real as it is, there is another layer of deeper convictions and relationships that we only get to see a tragically short glimpse of (with a few more hints to tantalize conversations such as this one) within the series and BDM.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Friday, December 19, 2008 4:20 PM

MOONDOG


Quote:

Originally posted by Lawman:
not to talk about another series in this thread, but kirk in star trek always seemed to get the ladies. just think its interesting that Jayne gets a lot of ladies (Jaynestown & Heart of Gold) for being what he is. i still think he'd sleep with any of the women on the ship if he had an opportunity to do so. except for River, cause that's a bit downright unsettling, but then again, i could stand to hear a little more.

i'll be in my bunk


Somebody, somewhere on another thread (or site) said that a night with River would be "a combination of The best time of my life and oh my god! I'm gonna die" That and the fact she canareas his mind and he knows it my make him a bit scared of her --even before the Maidenhead incident in BDM. I might add that the fact that she's only 17 might be a factor--Jayne might want to hump any woman with teeth and legs but I'd bet he's not a pedephile. Even he's shown to have limits (Maybe a little sister she reminds him of?)

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Friday, December 19, 2008 5:33 PM

TRAVELER


Jayne will bed about any woman that comes his way. I remember "Heart of Gold". He settled on just one woman and treated her with respest and did not talk down to her. He does seem to stay away from any long term relations. He did offer Vera for Safron. Trading a a highpower assault rifle for a woman is not very romantic, but for Jayne it is about the best your going to get. Maybe Kaylee and River might have had time to influence Jayne in the art of wooing a female, but I hardly doubt it. Jayne seems to live for the moment. As he said his lifestyle contributes to a short life span. So live for the moment. He makes the best of it with the skills he learned in backstreets and bordellos. At least, as I said earlier, Jayne treats his women with respect and also tends to be a big brother to those who are young and gentle like Kaylee.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:38 AM

INSTANTKARMAGIRL


All we have speculation and "uneducated guesses" because the show's not on anymore.

However, upon review of Jayne's character...what he says and what he does...one can narrow down aspects of his life, but they're all subjective.

I think his dad was someone who disrepected women, which forced Jayne to take care of his mother and family even more.

I think Jayne comes from a place where people have price tags on them. Trading a gun for Saffron seemed right to him. He wanted something so Mal should get something in return. But I don't think that negates an underlying sense of respect.

Jayne does respect women. If he didn't, he'd be slappin' asses all day long. But he doesn't. Someone said it above, he barely touches any of the women.

Whether or not Jayne wants a wife or kids or to settle down is unknown, but I have a feeling that if he ever had those inclinations, he killed them off long ago. His circumstances don't allow him those luxuries.

He's a hired gun. He'll kill for money. Not that many respectable girls looking for that kind of man. So he'll partake in prostitutes that he can be soft with but not have to worry about the tricky "falling in love" bit.

I think Jayne is complex. There are lots of depths that we'll never get Joss to explain or show.

~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal

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Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:20 PM

KAOSIUM


I got to thinking about this, and I decided to finally register so I could muse aloud about it.

I think the best way to define Jayne and his attitude towards love and women is to closely examine the canonical references and logically extrapolate from them. I am going to try to list every single relevant instance and them combine them into a whole. Feel free to add any that didn't come to my mind.

Serenity:

He makes a crude joke at Kaylee's expense at the dinner table, and adds to it when Mal comes down on him, which gets him dismissed from the dinner table.

After Kaylee is shot Jayne advances upon Dobson in a manner Book considers a murderous rage. He doesn't back down until Zoe pulls a gun on him. While Kaylee is being operated on, Jayne watches from an uncomfortable position rather than go down where everyone could see him.

He tells Dobson that River is "kinda cute" but not 'all there' however 'not all of her has to be.'

The Train Job:

He gets snappish with Simon, to whom he reveals he doesn't consider part of the crew, nor does he think that Mal considers Simon and River more than a bargaining chip. He has this discussion with Kaylee who is defending Simon and Mal's motives.

He snaps at River when she starts babbling about getting caught, and starts to say something crude to her when Simon cuts him off.

Bushwhacked:

Nothing comes to mind.

Shindig:

Says something about wanting to see Zoe in a slinky dress, then when they need a distraction suggests the best course of action is for Zoe to get 'nekkid.' This comes across to me as banter rather than meant for anything but humor value, and despite Zoe responding once that "I can hurt you" (with a smile on her face no less) I don't get the impression that she was either surprised or offended by it, she took it as a joke and responded in kind. Wash however clearly doesn't like it at all. As Jayne is actually looking at Wash when he says the bit about 'nekkid' it seems possible it was just to irritate the pilot who is always putting him down.

He doesn't seem to have any idea why Kaylee would be offended by Mal telling her she'd look silly in a dress.

Safe:

Is clearly pleased that Simon and River get left, and rifles through their stuff, though he gives it back with apparent embarrassment when they're back on the ship. That sets up River stealing a roll off Jayne's plate, which he doesn't even try to get back, but grabs another instead.

Our Mrs. Reynolds:

When Mal rejects Saffron as his wife, Jayne clearly shows interest and touches her shoulder in a gentle manner. When she begins crying he again pats her on the shoulder, rather delicately.

Later he offers to 'trade' his most prized possession for Saffron. It is revealed that he gave it a woman's name. He seems confused by Mal's insistence that you can't trade things for human beings. He tells Mal he would treat her alright and protect her. Note that when interpreting this scene I find it helpful to remember that 'Saffron' was apparently unhappy to be rejected and seemed perfectly willing to become a strange man's wife because she'd been 'traded.' If Mal didn't 'want' her it's possible Jayne may have thought he was doing her a favor by providing himself as a man who did--and would give his most cherished possession to 'have' her.

He reveals he doesn't kiss women on the mouth.

Jaynestown:

Here we see Jayne get 'sexed' for the first time, with the barmaid. She is hanging all over him the following morning, and Jayne appears to give her his coat/shirt as a souvenir.

Out of Gas:

Asks Inara if she'd reveals some "whoring" stories. Inara takes no offense and teases him instead. Mal warns her that Jayne is not to be trusted and he shouldn't be allowed to take over. Inara shows little concern.


Ariel:

Is stabbed by River, a 'deep wound,' and despite having both a gun and knife close at hand--and her still wielding the butcher's knife--he merely backhands her.

Attempts to turn River and Simon over to the Feds for a rich reward, threatens to shut up River a couple times but never touches her. When his plan goes awry he fights like a demon to free them, and is clearly embarrassed when Simon twice thanks him--no doubt because it's his own damn fault. When it appears he's down to his last words, his 'dying' wish is that no one find out what he did.

War Stories:

Is clearly turned on by Inara taking a female client, and decides to spend quality time in his bunk after seeing them together twice. Inara notes the interest and merely rolls her eyes at him.

Repeatedly tells Zoe her plan to rescue Mal is suicide, stands by mocking her and Wash about it. When Kaylee asks if they can do it, he snorts a no. After Wash tells him the credo of 'leave no man behind' he walks off. However, when the time comes for them to leave, it turns out Jayne is wearing his arsenal and plans to come as well. Interestingly enough, the others are just getting weapons out of the cabinet, a process that would take a lot less time than Jayne putting on his full kit, which suggests he decided to help before they did. Zoe is clearly surprised he made the decision to come along, but pairs up with him instead of Wash as she initially intended.

He is evidently repulsed by the idea of Zoe asking Mal to 'take her hard.'

Trash:

He tells River that he 'always says girlfolk are not to be trusted.' He is clearly miffed when River tells him Jayne is a girl's name' and responds like he's heard it before and it gets under his skin. He also tells her he has man parts and starts to reach down in order to 'prove' it.

He teams up with Kaylee and they work well as a team until it is revealed he doesn't know what 'hot' means regarding electrical equipment.

He is clearly agitated when River tells him she can 'kill him with her brain.'

The Message:

Jayne receives a letter and a knit cap from his mother. He evidently is close to her as he sends money to help with the care of his sick brother, Mattie. She also says his Pa is fine. He wears the cap proudly even though it is kinda silly-looking on him and he seems to realize that as at one point he says he 'makes good sport of his life' as he puts it on.

He tells Shepherd Book that when he sees a corpse he didn't have a part of the making of, he has an urge to 'get some trim if there's a willing woman about.'

Heart of Gold:

He has no interest helping people he doesn't know on a speculative basis until he finds out they are whores--which causes him to join in with no hesitation. He wears what appear to be his best clothes and a nice hat which he hangs up when he enters the whorehouse, even though it looks like 'a fozen dinner pack.'

He is clearly excited by all the 'tasty' around, though it appears he settles on one he likes best. He trains the girls how to shoot, though he warns if they keep pulling when shooting 'someone is gonna give up a special treat.'

He cuddles, caresses and even brushes the hair of his chosen girl, and levels with her regarding what combat is going to be like. Apparently he doesn't want this one directly involved in the battle, but readying his weapons instead. The girl initiates contact with him even though she isn't going to be paid and appears to enjoy being with him.

Objects in Space:

When River is prying from people what appear to be their deepest secrets, what she gets from Jayne is his admission that he 'got stupid, the money was too good' when he tried to turn the Tams in for reward money on Ariel.

Big Damn Movie:

When River starts the brawl he attempts to restrain her rather than actually fight her, and gets his jewels popped for his consideration. Later he apparently attempts to take her 'on a shuttle ride' after getting nowhere with Mal regarding the Tams getting off the boat.

He leaves cover to get Zoe after she leaves the line to charge and brings her back to (relative) safety.


That's all the interactions I can think of, and I listed them in order to refresh my mind so I can make reasonable extrapolations. If I have missed any, that might color the following, but here goes for now:

Jayne Cobb is a rude, crude man who often expresses himself that way, but often in addition humorously as well. Despite his demeanor, and his thinking of River as belonging 'in a bughouse,' he has two legitimate chances to attack her and both times chooses the gentlest path.

He might have been able to justify killing her in "Ariel" as a reflex action, but his instinctual response was to merely backhand her, not even hitting her with his full strength, nor using either of the weapons at his disposal. She still had the butcher's knife in her hand when he did it, so he wasn't simply seeking revenge either.

There is reason to believe, despite the apparent incongruity of it, that Jayne Cobb might be a gentle and considerate lover. We do know the two women he had sex with seemed to want more of him the next day, and he is apparently non-plussed by the thought of Zoe being 'taken hard.' The latter might also be because he might just secretly admire Zoe as she is the only female crewman he says anything about regarding their looks, and I cannot think of a single time he argued her orders, which is commonplace in his dealings with Mal.

He also might have a bit of a crush on little Kaylee, though there is no instance of him ever acting on it. It might explain why he so quickly picked up Kaylee's interest in Simon, why he was so crude about it, and it might contribute to his ongoing dislike of Simon, though he has several other legitimate reasons to detest Simon. Oddly enough, despite a couple of rather tame comments to Zoe, at no time does Jayne ever make advances on a woman on the ship. However, if he did have a crush on Kaylee, the reason he never acted upon it might be because Mal obviously regards her as his 'mei-mei' and knowing Mal doesn't trust him, he better be very careful in that regard. I note that after the dinner-table sequence in the pilot I cannot recall Jayne ever treating Kaylee like that again.

It is interesting that Inara, who has been trained to read people pretty well, at no time seems to be frightened or offended by the crude, violent and dangerous Jayne Cobb. Also, despite Jayne treating River as little more than a deranged reward opportunity--and her being able to read minds--does she ever seem frightened or intimidated by him, outside one sequence in "The Train Job."

I suspect that Jayne's apparent attachment to his mother is responsible for him treating women with more regard than he does men, crude comments aside. He might have been raised by a hardworking father (line from "Ariel" and cut line from his Ma's letter in "The Message") and loving mother. I think he loves his mother as well, and if that's so he probably could love another woman too, we just didn't get to see it in the eleven or so hours of Firefly we were allowed. But until then, it looks like Jayne has no qualms exercising his 'John Thomas' with willing women, and while he might not understand--and thus trust--'girlfolk' he seems to me to regard and treat them better than he does men. There's numerous reasons to believe he doesn't mistreat them, and the possibility that he's uncharacteristically gentle with them exists.

As for the crudity, despite his respect for his Ma, he's likely lived his adult life amongst rude and crude people, and outside Mal Reynolds, how many of them do you suppose could tell him to temper his speech and live to tell the tale?

Besides, he's funny as hell!

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Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:33 PM

VERASAMUELS


Jayne was amazingly tender with Helen in 'Heart of Gold' [as well as lusty!]. We didn't see much of his 'relationship' with the unnamed Mudder woman. She was probably just a quick easy lay to him, as far as I can tell.

But a sexual relationship with any of the ladies on 'Serenity'...ooh, no.

1. River - far too young, crazy and was violent towards Jayne. [Several times!!!]

2. Inara - wouldn't touch him with her little finger! Plus she's in love with Mal.

3. Zoe - even post Wash, no. It's fairly clear she tolerates Jayne at best.

4. Kaylee - well, there's her relationship with Simon to consider. Plus, I think Jayne and she are more brother/sister than anything else.

IMO, if Jayne's going to 'settle down' with one woman on a temporary, semi-permanent or permanent basis, it's got to be a new character.





Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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