FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

More Subtle yet interesting show observations - post yours

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Friday, December 19, 2008 07:29
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Thursday, February 7, 2008 9:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SchoolboysWink:
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I had always assumed that most of what they got for the ambulance craft would then be transferred for use on Serenity - they didn't keep the ambulance, they would have likely stripped it (maybe sold back to the junk yard). Never thought they would just waste it on one use.



Yeah, I guess it never dawned on me that they actually got away with the ambulance. I was always so amazed they made it back alive, and then transitioning to the scene with Mal and Jayne, I never gave it much thought.


Now you got me thinking about it, they probably got a better price for that craft on another planet, and they did have the space in the cargo bay. Those would be more common on Ariel, with "big junk" as Simon said.

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Friday, February 8, 2008 4:51 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

Point of interest, it's Wash who actually finds what looks suspiciously like a catalyzer! (the part he gleefully tosses at that other piece of luh-suh craft). Now, that's a part Serenity would REALLY come to need.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam



No. Wash found that in Ariel.
The catalyzer was needed in Out of Gas, a few episodes before.


You telling me that 'cause you think I don't know? :) But seriously, I've always wandered about that: what sequence Joss wrote the episodes in. It really DOES look like a catalyzer, namely; and it always seemed a mite odd that Kaylee would allow him to throw it away AFTER OoG.

N.B. The catalyzer seems to be a bit of a recurring theme, actually. Wasn't it seen in the cargo-bay of Serenity in the BDM, too? (when Kaylee and Jayne are talking alone).



--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


You said "a part they would come to need" implying you thought OoG was after Ariel.
Kaylee did not see the catalyzer that Wash picked up - she was working on the synchronizer.

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Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:36 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

You said "a part they would come to need"


Yes, come to need during the series; a punctiliar kinda thing: not necessarily after Ariel. :)

Quote:


... implying you thought OoG was after Ariel.


Yeah, after watching Firefly a zillion times, I'm sure that's what I thought.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:40 PM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

Point of interest, it's Wash who actually finds what looks suspiciously like a catalyzer! (the part he gleefully tosses at that other piece of luh-suh craft). Now, that's a part Serenity would REALLY come to need.




I'll have to keep my eyes open for the resemblence the next time I watch. I never noticed it before.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Monday, February 18, 2008 12:15 AM

ASARIAN


There's something I never completely understood in Shindig: Inara, browsing through several proposals from prospective clients. Like the young pale guy who says, "If you've selected my proposal to hear, the honor that you do me flatters my.., honor." She clicks him away, and proceeds to select Atherton. But his, suddenly, is a live feed! (as he's clearly interacting with her).

So, what's up with that? How CAN it even be a live feed? Hard to imagine Atherton sitting by his phone/Cortex all day, ready to take Inara's call (and yet he picks up instantly). Or maybe I'm a complete moonbrain, and it never were a live feed at all! But it sure looked like it to me.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, February 18, 2008 12:19 AM

ASARIAN


Also, I just realized there's a relationship between Jayne's "Let's moon em!" and Badger's "And I didn't flash my arse at the gorram law!" :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, February 18, 2008 12:33 AM

WYTCHCROFT


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
Also, I just realized there's a relationship between Jayne's "Let's moon em!" and Badger's "And I didn't flash my arse at the gorram law!" :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam



which i think says a lot about Badger - his desire for 'respectability' versus his jealousy of such rebellious gestures. He'd LOVE to flash his arse at the law,, i'm sure!

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Monday, February 18, 2008 1:29 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by wytchcroft:

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

Also, I just realized there's a relationship between Jayne's "Let's moon em!" and Badger's "And I didn't flash my arse at the gorram law!" :)


Which i think says a lot about Badger - his desire for 'respectability' versus his jealousy of such rebellious gestures. He'd LOVE to flash his arse at the law, I'm sure!


Badger? Jealous? Nah! LOL :)

What's really subtle (as opposed to my other observation), is that Badger refers to the Alliance Cruiser as "the law". A regular civilian might not haven chosen such a colored word, but a crook like Badger, he naturally sees things in terms of being chased by the authorities; to him, even the mention of Alliance means "the law".


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, February 18, 2008 11:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Asarian, re: Inara in Shindig.

Consider this: you are listening to your voicemails, or messages, and suddenly a new, active, call comes in, you can take the call and interact in real time instead of playing phone tag. Now imagine this is the future, where video messages do this effortlessly with smooth transition. I hear "You've got mail" is something done in our time.
Of course, you might complain that I've read this in the Officail Companion or something.

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Tuesday, February 19, 2008 12:48 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Of course, you might complain that I've read this in the Official Companion or something.


You've got that figured backwards. :) I will entertain any suggestion offered that helps me see a seemingly broken Firefly thing unbroken. :)

So, I'll take your explanation and consider the matter solved.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:05 PM

HISTORYPHIL


Not an observation, just a couple questions; How long after they were released from the POW camp was it that they bought their ship? And,where did Mal and Zoe get the money to buy a Firefly?

--------------------------
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

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Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by HistoryPhil:
Not an observation, just a couple questions; How long after they were released from the POW camp was it that they bought their ship? And,where did Mal and Zoe get the money to buy a Firefly?

--------------------------
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.



How long? Tim said for Out of Gas that the Mal/Zoe/salesman flashback was "about 5 years" ago, so the purchase was about fall of 2512. U-day was about August of 2511. The meeemos said the POWs were not held long, released as goodwill, I got the impression a few months. So it seemed it was about a yearish for Mal to get tired of "being under Alliance thumb" or whatever.

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Sunday, February 24, 2008 10:42 AM

WORLDOFHIGLET


A late reply to this but just saw it. The search of the ship by the Alliance has to be one of the funniest scenes, particularly when it pulls back to reveal about 20 of them in the kitchen, tripping over each other, pulling back chairs (boo - River was under the table!), turning over placemats etc.

Did these people not have any sort of, you know, scanners? Tsk! You pays your gorram taxes and the Alliance can't even afford a decent life-form detector.....

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Sunday, February 24, 2008 2:43 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by HistoryPhil:

,where did Mal and Zoe get the money to buy a Firefly?


Point of interest, it's really just Mal's ship ("You paid money for this, Sir? On purpose?"). Zoe didn't co-buy it or anything.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:14 PM

HISTORYPHIL


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:

Originally posted by HistoryPhil:

,where did Mal and Zoe get the money to buy a Firefly?


Point of interest, it's really just Mal's ship ("You paid money for this, Sir? On purpose?"). Zoe didn't co-buy it or anything.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam



OK. I will rephrase the question. How expensive is a used, non-functional, Firefly class transport ship and where did Mel get the money to buy and repair it? Was Mel's Independence Army back pay deposited in a bank that did not crash when the Independents lost? Did he receive a mustering out bonus from the Alliance when he was released? Maybe compensation from the Alliance for the destruction of his ranch on Shadow? Was he able to save enough working for others in the year between his release from the POW camp and the his purchase of Serenity to buy the ship?

Not arguing, just puzzled.

Phil

--------------------------
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

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Saturday, March 1, 2008 2:07 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by HistoryPhil:

OK. I will rephrase the question. How expensive is a used, non-functional, Firefly class transport ship and where did Mel get the money to buy and repair it? Was Mel's Independence Army back pay deposited in a bank that did not crash when the Independents lost? Did he receive a mustering out bonus from the Alliance when he was released? Maybe compensation from the Alliance for the destruction of his ranch on Shadow? Was he able to save enough working for others in the year between his release from the POW camp and the his purchase of Serenity to buy the ship?

Not arguing, just puzzled.

Phil


I wasn't trying to be argumentative, either. :) It's just that, for the story line, I think it's good to know it's really just Mal's boat.

To answer your question, I dunno. How much does, say, a non-functioning car cost here at a used-car dealership? Not that much, either, I reckon. Zoe was surprised he even paid any money at all! Mal was a Sargeant; not the highest paying job, ever, I take it, but he had probably saved enough to buy what most would consider a piece of fei-oo. The idea that he received some compensation for the destruction of his ranch on Shadow, is also well possible. But even without, I think he could still afford it. We know he didn't take a mortgage out on it, or some such. Or at least, if he did, we know he paid it off in full ("Bought and paid for" - Bushwhacked).


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, March 1, 2008 4:30 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Quote:



In BDM I've always been bothered at the end, when KayLee finally gets some, River's hair is not visible when she's upside down in the ceiling. That always seemed goofy to me.

Also in BDM, until reading the script I never recognized Derria Book's final lines to Mal as paraphrasing Tom Hanks/Capt Miller's final lines to Matt Damon/Pvt Ryan in Saving Private Ryan, which was a film Nathan was in.




I think there is another subtle connection to Saving Private Ryan. Perhaps it has been mentioned before, and if so - sorry for the repeat - but re-watching Saving Private Ryan recently, I watched the sharpshooter character kissing his cross before lining up his target and killing him. It was basically the same gesture done by Mal in the Serenity Pilot before going out with Zoe to shoot down the craft that was strafing them.

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 5:32 PM

ASARIAN


It's a well known fact, of course, that Joss modelled Jubal Early after Jubal Anderson Early, the famous Confederate general of the American Civil War. What I didn't know (until a recent visit to wikipedia) is that the general was an outspoken believer in white supremacy. Early wrote about African Americans as "barbarous natives of Africa" and wrote:

"The Creator of the Universe had stamped them, indelibly, with a different color and an inferior physical and mental organization. He had not done this from mere caprice or whim, but for wise purposes. (...) Reason, common sense, true humanity to the black, as well as the safety of the white race, required that the inferior race should be kept in a state of subordination."

I therefore find it not without a sense of irony that the Creator of *our* 'Verse made Jubal Early... a BLACK man! :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, May 23, 2008 10:47 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Well here it goes, my take on River's walk-thru in OIS (which is brilliant by the way, more on this later).

River is seemingly awakened by a voice saying "We're all just floating." Is it Serenity or is it Jubal Early tailing the ship.

She walks around the ship comes upon Simon and Kaylee but only "hears" her brother's innermost thoughts, his secret. Same thing with Jayne and Book. Jayne we know about (see Ariel), which is rather curious to me. Why was Jayne so intent that they didn't find out what he did? But Book's thoughts were really interesting. It was not about River. The popular theory is that Book was once a crooked cop. Perhaps he helped frame someone and is making amends by walking around the universe. Why else would he know so much about crime and guns?

Which brings us to Inarra. This is out there but here it goes: I believe that she was diagnosed with some incurable disease and was possibly talking to the doctor when she says: "I'm a big girl. Just tell me." I believe that the vial she had in the pilot was actually her meds and she was wondering if she should take it. Why else would she insist that anyone, especially Mal, entering her shuttle knock first? Mal's comment refers to the crushing defeat by the Alliance and present day life.

What's most interesting though is that we got no "read" from Kaylee. Is it something that is buried deep within Kaylee's subconcious? Someone had mentioned in another post that Kaylee did not answer Jubal when he asked if she had ever been raped. It is a very interesting theory. As for Wash and Zoe - all she could feel was their love and passion for each other.

Just a few thoughts!

On some planets they juggle geese!

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Friday, May 23, 2008 11:18 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Yes, that scene with Book and Inara is one of my favs, among many. It always gets me. I too feel that Book's confession to Inara is his way of seeking forgiveness for not protecting the lawman, but not only that, the fact that he felts it was right to shoot him in that situation. The gesture of placing her hand on his head seemingly blessing him is a great shot. GREAT SCENE, period.

Inara is extremely wise and often imparts her wisdom and her take on the decisions Mal makes. But that is a recurring theme throughout FF. The women advise with solid wisdom. For instance, Zoe's comments to Mal about never leaving a man behind influences Mal's decision to continue to harbor the fugitives.

Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

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Sunday, June 8, 2008 2:20 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

What's most interesting though is that we got no "read" from Kaylee. Is it something that is buried deep within Kaylee's subconcious? Someone had mentioned in another post that Kaylee did not answer Jubal when he asked if she had ever been raped. It is a very interesting theory. As for Wash and Zoe - all she could feel was their love and passion for each other.


I once made an attempt to analyze the audio:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=4&t=31398

Perhaps you find it of pertinence to your observations, too. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, June 8, 2008 2:01 PM

YELLOWJACKET


I always thought that it was implied that the reavers shot them down or forced them down. Jaynes mentions that the ship was "banged up
all to hell".




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Sunday, June 8, 2008 11:07 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


The councilor's bodyguard always catches me off guard. suit from Morris Day or 90's Arsenio Hall, and wearing those cereal-box sunglasses. Cracks me up a little each time.

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Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Many have mentioned Mal kissing his cross in the BOSV scene of Pilot Serenity.
After watching Saving Private Ryan again yesterday, I had noticed that Jackson (Barry Pepper) the sniper several times kissed his cross before engaging. I had often assumed it was, in his case, for advance forgiveness from the Almighty for those he was about to most surely kill - for he was a good sniper. This time I considered it was possibly a prayer for the soul of the target he was about to send home. I also wondered if it was instead a request to the Lord that he could be spared from death in this incident. He was usually shooting from a position of concealment, defilade.

I never got the impression from Mal in BOSV (yeah, I noticed the cross kissing the first time) that he could be praying for those he was about to terminate, or for forgiveness from the Lord for the sin of killing a man he was about to do, but rather just for him to survive the current situation.
Anybody think it was for any other reason? I can't see Mal caring that much about Alliance to consider them worthy of a prayer from him.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Some subtle bits I've noticed in BDM: when Kaylee tells Mal "tell that to Inara" the way Wash looks down and backs away for Kaylee to leave makes me grin, and back on the ship when Jayne asks why River is back on board, Mal glances at Zoe, she looks down, they seem in agreement, and it's a continuation of their "we used to not leave a man behind" exchange.
Always like Joss's jab when the lab guy refers to teachers as scary monsters in River's nightmare.

One I hadn't caught before:
When Mr Universe explains that the Alliance has gone to great trouble to find your little friend, and find her they have, the look of chagrin Mal gave I had always figured was like woe is me, we are in trouble now. But this time I realized it was actually Mal realizing just how right Simon was, objecting to River going to Lilac, trying to keep River away from the tentacles of the Alliance, and how it was Mal who thrust River into a time and place where she got triggered, and is his fault, his responsibility to set things right. Never got that before today.

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Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


More on BDM:
On Miranda, the Research and Rescue vehicle is labeled C53D. Also, the first vehicle (car like) that Jayne finds with a withered victim is also labeled C53D in the same font.
Regarding the smaller vehicle, I don't understand why it has the same model name or logo. If it came with the crashed vehicle that investigated the deaths, how quick did this stuff act to make the driver just stop, after just arriving on planet?

Regarding the C53D, I had always assumed it to be homage to the helicopter CH53D Sea Stallion, upgraded to the CH53E Super Stallion, and one version is the MH53J Pave Low used for Search and Rescue missions. I figured the discrepancy was just the non-technical nature of Joss.

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:04 AM

SALAMANDER95


I was particulary happy to see a Rhino Iguana. I can't for the life of me remember which episode? (I've only been watching Firefly for 3 months now). Aside from the domestic animals I think that was the only other animal in the show.

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:27 AM

SCATHAC


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
could be praying for those he was about to terminate, or for forgiveness from the Lord for the sin of killing a man he was about to do, but rather just for him to survive the current situation.
Anybody think it was for any other reason? I can't see Mal caring that much about Alliance to consider them worthy of a prayer from him.



I've always seen that moment as a prayer for survival and possibly, to succeed. See, Zoe says something like, you really think we can bring it down? And Mal says, do you even need to ask, but then pauses, momentary flash of fear and doubt (that he can't vocalize, or he would destroy the moral of Zoe and his other men) so he puts his faith in God and kisses his cross, prays. And of course, he succeeds at first, but then loses the war, all of his men dying but Zoe, he loses his faith in God, which we all know about.

At least, that's what I always thought.

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Friday, July 4, 2008 11:12 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Salamander95:
I was particulary happy to see a Rhino Iguana. I can't for the life of me remember which episode? (I've only been watching Firefly for 3 months now). Aside from the domestic animals I think that was the only other animal in the show.


I think you are referring to BDM Serenity. After the Lilac heist, arriving at the Plaza Atoll on Beaumonde, heading for Maidenhead bar. They dock, close up on some bike rider, passing the caged lizard, bathed in neon.
On the DVD, select scene 6 "Triggered"

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Monday, July 7, 2008 10:07 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I agree with Scathac reagrding Mal's kissing of the Cross. I think he's doing all of the above pray. Asking for forgiveness of sin, success, souls for the soon-to-be-departed and survival.
When he lost the battle, he lost his faith.
"You're welcome on my boat, God ain't."


[I've always seen that moment as a prayer for survival and possibly, to succeed. See, Zoe says something like, you really think we can bring it down? And Mal says, do you even need to ask, but then pauses, momentary flash of fear and doubt (that he can't vocalize, or he would destroy the moral of Zoe and his other men) so he puts his faith in God and kisses his cross, prays. And of course, he succeeds at first, but then loses the war, all of his men dying but Zoe, he loses his faith in God, which we all know about.

At least, that's what I always thought.


Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

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Monday, July 7, 2008 11:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I also used to assume that he was praying for victory, success, survival. But Zoe asks abiout bringing down the warcraft that is strafing them, killing the pilot aboard.
Joss (or Mal) seems to borrow from Saving Private Ryan, and Jackson (Barry Pepper) is the sniper, who always kisses his cross before each engagement, so it occured to me that Mal might be praying for forgiveness of killing the pilot, or for the pilot's soul.
I'm no longer certain my assumption was correct.

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Saturday, July 19, 2008 9:13 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
More on BDM:
On Miranda, the Research and Rescue vehicle is labeled C53D. Also, the first vehicle (car like) that Jayne finds with a withered victim is also labeled C53D in the same font.
Regarding the smaller vehicle, I don't understand why it has the same model name or logo. If it came with the crashed vehicle that investigated the deaths, how quick did this stuff act to make the driver just stop, after just arriving on planet?

...I figured the discrepancy was just the non-technical nature of Joss.




Not the helo...

The smaller craft belonged to the larger one , and was transported aboard it...It belonged to the mission just like the Galileo shuttle belonged to Star Trek's Enterprise...The Galileo was one of 7 shuttles that belonged to
NCC-1701 , so it was marked 'NCC-1701~7'.

...Same deal with the two Alliance vessels in Serenity BDM .

The pilot of the smaller craft was probably debilitated gradually , and eventually became incapacitated , while still aboard...He'd probably been out on a recon mission of a sort , before he stopped caring about finishing what they'd come there for...

Remember, the craft were marked ' Research & Rescue ' , an odd sort of dual mission , but one that was appropriate to planet Miranda , given the circumstances of the failure there...

Actually , the I.D. number on the two craft is 'C57D' . It's an homage to FORBIDDEN PLANET , an earlier Science Fiction classic film...

In the film , the spacecraft is designated UNITED PLANETS Cruiser C-57D...

See the similarity to UNION of ALLIED PLANETS , or even , UNITED FEDERATION of PLANETS ?

That's good , because Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry drew inspiration from the Robert Wise classic , Forbidden Planet , when creating the seminal TV series...

If you ever watch Forbidden Planet , and then see the Star Trek pilot episode ," THE CAGE ", you'll notice a lot of similarities , plus a natural progression...

There was a stiff and notable militarism in both , as one example...

Another connection is that Robert Wise was eventually tapped by Roddenberry to direct the first Trek film ,
Star Trek : The Motion Picture...

Forbidden Planet was very influential...

It's theme was really a retelling of Shakespeare's 'The Tempest'...In the science fiction version , there was a 'creature from the id' , a battle for the mind , that is of a kinship with River's brain storms...

And , Miranda is ' a forbidden planet ' to the folk in the 'Verse , and Serenity's crew...

The antithesis of Tempest is Serenity...

" Storm's getting worse... "

" We'll pass through it , soon enough..."

Give Joss all due credit...The man knows his trade...

When something ' sciency ' is happening , there'll be blinking lights that can't be missed...

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Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:10 PM

SGTRANDOLPH


I always assumed that the research vessel was knocked down by the reavers - maybe not as prolific as they are now (at least as spaceborn), but the firefly managed to slip through easy enough just because they were disguised.

Going along with this train of thought ... would the Alliance really just send one vessel to investigate the happenings of over 30 million people? Especially on a "rescue" mission? Just a thought ...

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Monday, July 21, 2008 4:06 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by out2theblack:
See the similarity to UNION of ALLIED PLANETS , or even , UNITED FEDERATION of PLANETS ?

That's good , because Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry drew inspiration from the Robert Wise classic , Forbidden Planet , when creating the seminal TV series...


Robert Wise directed a lot of great movies, but Forbidden Planet was not one of them. It was directed by Fred Wilcox. Some of Wise's movies were :
Day The Earth Stood Still
Andromeda Strain
Sand Pebbles
Sound Of Music
Run Silent, Run Deep
The Hindenburg
West Side Story
Star Trek Motion Picture


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Monday, July 21, 2008 4:30 AM

SERENITYRIDDLE


This is concerning the scene with Wash at the controls, but he's not holding anything. First mentioned in December of 07, I believe.

Ahh! I know this is late, but Ahh! I sat and stared at that the first time I noticed while watching and figured the same thing!!

"Also, I can kill you with my brain" -River Tam

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Monday, July 21, 2008 11:44 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Robert Wise directed a lot of great movies, but Forbidden Planet was not one of them. It was directed by Fred Wilcox. Some of Wise's movies were :
Day The Earth Stood Still
Andromeda Strain
Sand Pebbles
Sound Of Music
Run Silent, Run Deep
The Hindenburg
West Side Story
Star Trek Motion Picture




My bad !

Mental mix-up with 'Day The Earth Stood Still'...

Same genre , same era , different though great film...

Incidentally , I think that 'The Hindenburg' success had much to do with Wise being selected to direct ST:TMP...

YMMV , of course...

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Monday, July 21, 2008 11:07 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by out2theblack:
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
More on BDM:
On Miranda, the Research and Rescue vehicle is labeled C53D. Also, the first vehicle (car like) that Jayne finds with a withered victim is also labeled C53D in the same font.
Regarding the smaller vehicle, I don't understand why it has the same model name or logo. If it came with the crashed vehicle that investigated the deaths, how quick did this stuff act to make the driver just stop, after just arriving on planet?

...I figured the discrepancy was just the non-technical nature of Joss.




Not the helo...

The smaller craft belonged to the larger one , and was transported aboard it...It belonged to the mission just like the Galileo shuttle belonged to Star Trek's Enterprise...The Galileo was one of 7 shuttles that belonged to
NCC-1701 , so it was marked 'NCC-1701~7'.

...Same deal with the two Alliance vessels in Serenity BDM .

The pilot of the smaller craft was probably debilitated gradually , and eventually became incapacitated , while still aboard...He'd probably been out on a recon mission of a sort , before he stopped caring about finishing what they'd come there for...

Remember, the craft were marked ' Research & Rescue ' , an odd sort of dual mission , but one that was appropriate to planet Miranda , given the circumstances of the failure there...

Actually , the I.D. number on the two craft is 'C57D' . It's an homage to FORBIDDEN PLANET , an earlier Science Fiction classic film...

In the film , the spacecraft is designated UNITED PLANETS Cruiser C-57D...

See the similarity to UNION of ALLIED PLANETS , or even , UNITED FEDERATION of PLANETS ?

That's good , because Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry drew inspiration from the Robert Wise classic , Forbidden Planet , when creating the seminal TV series...

If you ever watch Forbidden Planet , and then see the Star Trek pilot episode ," THE CAGE ", you'll notice a lot of similarities , plus a natural progression...

There was a stiff and notable militarism in both , as one example...

Another connection is that Robert Wise was eventually tapped by Roddenberry to direct the first Trek film ,
Star Trek : The Motion Picture...

Forbidden Planet was very influential...

It's theme was really a retelling of Shakespeare's 'The Tempest'...In the science fiction version , there was a 'creature from the id' , a battle for the mind , that is of a kinship with River's brain storms...

And , Miranda is ' a forbidden planet ' to the folk in the 'Verse , and Serenity's crew...

The antithesis of Tempest is Serenity...

" Storm's getting worse... "

" We'll pass through it , soon enough..."

Give Joss all due credit...The man knows his trade...

When something ' sciency ' is happening , there'll be blinking lights that can't be missed...



That'sd great, more sublte than I caught.
I thought it weird that the population succumbed after a bit, but that driver of the research car could fall victim so fast - why didn't the people who dropped in the pax also fall victim?

No reavers to stop the research from getting there, research was from 12 years ago, Jayne says reavers only startedc showing up 10 yrears ago.

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:07 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by out2theblack:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Robert Wise directed a lot of great movies, but Forbidden Planet was not one of them. It was directed by Fred Wilcox. Some of Wise's movies were :
Day The Earth Stood Still
Andromeda Strain
Sand Pebbles
Sound Of Music
Run Silent, Run Deep
The Hindenburg
West Side Story
Star Trek Motion Picture




My bad !

Mental mix-up with 'Day The Earth Stood Still'...

Same genre , same era , different though great film...

Incidentally , I think that 'The Hindenburg' success had much to do with Wise being selected to direct ST:TMP...

YMMV , of course...


I liked your post, found it intriguing, and that's why the little correction on Wise. Forbidden Planet, IMO, is the forerunner to many modern concepts of sci-fi. It is clear that Roddenberry used many of the concepts from Planet for Star Trek :
Uniforms in space
Military and science personnel in space
Laser pistols
Laser "artillary"
Communicators on body
Captain and ship's Doctor comraderie
Captain and ship's Engineer comraderie
Captain and ship's First Officer comraderie
Captain gets the girl
The decelleration chambers (DC stations) from Planet look an awful like prototypes for Trek's transporter platforms and beams
Advanced technological secrets from a long-extinct alien civilization...a plot theme for many Trek episodes





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Tuesday, July 29, 2008 2:10 PM

SHEPARDROY


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Now it dawns on me that Mal was probably referring to Simon's rescuing River, defying the Alliance, saving an innocent - that is what Mal sees as strength, and that perhaps Simon is human enough, despite his upbringing and social status, that he and Mal can work out the sharing of mutual space for a while.



Well said. I think that is exactly it.

ShepardRoy

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Tuesday, July 29, 2008 2:13 PM

SHEPARDROY



"Also, I can kill you with my brain" -River Tam



I thought that was really funny. She actually can't kill with her brain ... but, she is dealing with someone who does not know that ... and it freaks him out ...

ShepardRoy

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 1:27 AM

LURKALOT


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
In "Objects in Space" when Jubal Early asks Kaylee if she had ever been raped,



This brings me to (what I think) is an interesting point. OK here goes....

I wander what Joss's take would be on his black characters. I mean Book is restricted by his religion. Zoe is restricted by her soldier mentality. Early is psychotic and "The Believer" (a very good retooling of Early) in Serenity is...well a believer. All of them pretty much simply obey.

As much as I really like Jayne's character I think Early or The Believer would have made better main characters.

But my main point is why are the black characters so restricted. Each one obviously has a 3D backstory which in itself could be a film. What do you think?

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 9:28 AM

PHYRELIGHT


Those characters you mentioned can actually make their own choices: Zoe disobeyed Mal's order and married Wash, Book shot people (very un-Christian-like), and Jubal... well, he wasn't under anyone's specific orders. He could have chosen to turn down the bounty if he wanted to. He's not a cop.

But, what about River? If you expose her to the right subliminal message, she'll do anything. She has no choice in the matter.





Experience the Horribleness!

http://www.drhorrible.com

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 10:18 AM

RALLEM


Why aren't there more Chinese people and any Chinese characters in this show?

An observation I have made about this show is that when ever I loan out one of my two copies of the series it never comes back quickly.



http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 11:44 AM

LURKALOT


Agreed! But it just seemed "to me" to be a (dont have a word yet). I like the characters but they seemed to be token. Now Joss is such a good writer that even token characters are very good. Great potential in their back stories never really explored. Its the old thing that when you are in the minority things individuals do stand out more. So should they have been in the minority in the new verse?


Rallem: I also wandered about Chinese too.
Maybe its just up appreciating the talents of the writer and expecting more?

Just thinking out loud :)

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 12:01 PM

RALLEM


Do you think this question is ever asked of Joss at conventions?



http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 12:26 PM

PHYRELIGHT


Lurkalot: The Shepherd's Tale is supposed to be Book's back story, and that is going to be released in a few months. Not all hope is lost!

Rallem: I think the lack of Asian people in the show a symptom of it being canceled so quickly. It is very, very possible that Serenity would have traveled to planets that were more populated by Asian descendants than European. There is evidence there were plans for other cultures to pop up here and there as well. Niska spoke Czech, so it can be easily assumed that there are pockets of the 'verse that are neither of Asian or English influence.




Experience the Horribleness!

http://www.drhorrible.com

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Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:30 PM

LURKALOT


Thanks for your response. At least you did respond. I get the feeling that this is a subject that many Caucasians don't want to go near (for obvious reasons I suppose.

Bottom line is I think Firefly and Serenity are excellent and while I was watching the shows these issues didn't even occur to me (with one exception) as I was enjoying them too much. I saw Serenity first then Firefly. However after watching the OiG episode it occurred to me that Early and "the Believer" were very similar characters with slightly different motivators. The rest of my thoughts followed afterward.

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Tuesday, September 9, 2008 10:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Lurkalot:
Thanks for your response. At least you did respond. I get the feeling that this is a subject that many Caucasians don't want to go near (for obvious reasons I suppose.

Bottom line is I think Firefly and Serenity are excellent and while I was watching the shows these issues didn't even occur to me (with one exception) as I was enjoying them too much. I saw Serenity first then Firefly. However after watching the OiG episode it occurred to me that Early and "the Believer" were very similar characters with slightly different motivators. The rest of my thoughts followed afterward.



Not sure what obvious reasons you would suppose caucasians don't feel the need to grasp and revel in the concept of victimhood. Perhaps you feel the victimhood angle is the sole domain of minorities.
I did not feel the characters of Zoe, Book ("african americans") or the actors Jewel, Nathan (Foreigners - Canadians) where typecast or prtrayed diferently than any other.
Let it rest.

All of the characters had wonderful backstories which were tragically not explored due to the unfortunate cancellation. I am certain we are all aware of the loss of not being able to see each of these explored. The most wooden of characters presented I would have to view as Zoe, but that was largely due to her character's past and practice and training as a professional soldier. Realistically, how many times have you seen a black actress portraying a professional soldier, non-hysterical, solid stable predictable reactions, without being over-the-top heroic fantasy unrealistic super star?

Posts like yours force me and others to disengage from the feel-good of enjoying our show and to re-think of characters like Zoe and Book not as they were written and protrayed, but downgraded to an evaluation of their minority (or not) status. This is not the thing to wear well on a short-lived series we loved so much.

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Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:25 AM

RALLEM


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Lurkalot: The Shepherd's Tale is supposed to be Book's back story, and that is going to be released in a few months. Not all hope is lost!

Rallem: I think the lack of Asian people in the show a symptom of it being canceled so quickly. It is very, very possible that Serenity would have traveled to planets that were more populated by Asian descendants than European. There is evidence there were plans for other cultures to pop up here and there as well. Niska spoke Czech, so it can be easily assumed that there are pockets of the 'verse that are neither of Asian or English influence.




Experience the Horribleness!

http://www.drhorrible.com



I often wondered where this series might have gone had it not been under the threat of being cancelled by Fox, because I always thought of the episodes “The Message,” “Heart of Gold,” and “Objects in Space” were just space holder shows for Firefly even though they each held important aspects for the further development of the series. I always felt that these three shows did not follow the normal ebb and flow of the series and they did not develop an ebb and flow of their own, as I suspect Joss must have felt a need to place in these three episodes certain story points that he would have otherwise taken him longer to explore in the series. There is one possible future perspective of Firefly here:

http://www.stillflying.net/




http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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