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Originally posted by Brenda:
Just finished watching watching the latest Predator movie called ,"Prey". It was an interesting spin on the franchise. Good story it moved well. I liked it.

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Originally posted by whozit:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Just finished watching watching the latest Predator movie called ,"Prey". It was an interesting spin on the franchise. Good story it moved well. I liked it.

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I haven't heard of this flick

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by whozit:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Just finished watching watching the latest Predator movie called ,"Prey". It was an interesting spin on the franchise. Good story it moved well. I liked it.

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I haven't heard of this flick

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Yeah. I remember hearing about it a year or two ago. It actually seemed somewhat interesting.

As well as I can remember I don't recall anybody bashing it for DEI or anything like that, and though it may not have been raved about I don't remember any real complaints about it either. I actually think I remember some people praising it for finally being a good Predator movie for the first time in decades.

If memory serves, and Brenda can correct me if I'm wrong, it centers around earlier times in history and either Native Americans or Native Canadians? And I believe the main character is either a girl or a young woman from one of the tribes?

I'm fine with that and wouldn't call it woke at all. There's no reason why Predators couldn't be coming to Earth for a hunt a hundred, 200 or even 1,000 years before we first saw them in the 1980s. And as long as the girl/young woman doesn't have superhero powers or there aren't any scenes where a 100 lb woman physically beats down a monster 3 times her size, they can do it in a way where she can outsmart her adversary in a believable way.

The only two reasons I have never gotten around to watch it is that I hardly watch anything, and (at least prior to this) Hollywood hasn't managed to make a good Predator movie since Predator II, so I'd been kind of turned off by the idea of watching another one after wasting my time with things like AvP.

If you do end up watching it too Whozit, I'd like to hear you post your opinion about it here as well.

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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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BRENDA:

You are correct SIX. The story centres around a young Comanche woman and it is set in 1791.

She had no super powers she was just very good at tracking and reading animals signs. Her brother and some other young warriors thought they were just hunting a cougar but she knew it wasn't just a big cat. Her and her brother brought the cat down and I don't know about adding any more spoilers because of whozit.

It does delve a little into the culture of the Comanche as the young woman learned medicine from her mother but she is also a warrior. Which was common for her people.
She also made first contact with the white man. A group of trappers, hunting small game and bison. Her dog got caught in one of their traps, but the trappers weren't seen for a while more until she stumbles upon a herd of dead bison. Typical style of profiteers, take the hides and leave the meat to rot in the sun. Oddly enough they made the trappers French. *L*

I'm laughing as it is kind of an insult to my French Canadian great grandfather who was a trapper. Don't know if he went after bison though.

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As I said up a bit. She is a perfectly normal young woman, who just uses her knowledge to do what she has to do to protect her people.

Very refreshing for me.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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BRENDA:

You are correct SIX. The story centres around a young Comanche woman and it is set in 1791.

She had no super powers she was just very good at tracking and reading animals signs. Her brother and some other young warriors thought they were just hunting a cougar but she knew it wasn't just a big cat. Her and her brother brought the cat down and I don't know about adding any more spoilers because of whozit.

It does delve a little into the culture of the Comanche as the young woman learned medicine from her mother but she is also a warrior. Which was common for her people.
She also made first contact with the white man. A group of trappers, hunting small game and bison. Her dog got caught in one of their traps, but the trappers weren't seen for a while more until she stumbles upon a herd of dead bison. Typical style of profiteers, take the hides and leave the meat to rot in the sun. Oddly enough they made the trappers French. *L*

I'm laughing as it is kind of an insult to my French Canadian great grandfather who was a trapper. Don't know if he went after bison though.

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I appreciate no spoilers, since this one is probably on my list of movies I will eventually get to watching.

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As I said up a bit. She is a perfectly normal young woman, who just uses her knowledge to do what she has to do to protect her people.

Very refreshing for me.

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I think that's refreshing for all of us.

I think it was especially refreshing back in 2022, which is probably why I remembered as much about it as I did.

What a lot of people don't understand because of the Media is that us white dudes have never complained about women in leading rolls. Not once. But when you're talking about situations where a woman is just badass because "woman" and nothing is earned, nobody wants to see yet another movie where frail little things are constantly beating the shit out of men twice their size because they're just perfect at everything they do because "woman".

I loved Fallout, and I love the main character of Lucy. As I said when the trailer dropped, there were ways for them to do her character where people would love her, and there were plenty of ways for them to do her character that would be completely unbelievable and people would hate her. They actually got it right. All of it. She wraps up after 8 episodes being kind of a badass herself, but it was all earned. She's been through a lot of shit. But despite how bad it all was, she's still that idealistic and naive young girl raised in paradise compared to what people have been living with on the surface and still believes in the good side of people.

THAT'S what we've been starved of for a very, very long time in Cinema and TV.

I'm glad that overall things seem to be turning around back to good story telling, and I'm pretty impressed that the makers of "Prey" managed to do that about 2 years ahead of the curve.

I definitely should give this one a watch. Thanks for reminding me that it was a movie that was made.



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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Originally posted by Anonymouse:
As shown in Predator 2,, they've been coming at least since 1715 - the flintlock from Raphael Aidolimi was dated 1715. Likely they've been coming since we first developed firearms and therefore became interesting to them.

In my own fanfic on FanFic.net, Night Watch, there's evidence to suggest they've been coming for at least 9,000 years. Maybe they didn't have such advanced weaponry then, so even without our firearms it was a more even match.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This was from 2022. Another Prey is 2024.

So that was the summer of Maverick.

I had thought I'd seen the most recent Predator entry, but that was a different film. Don't think I've seen this one.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
I tried to not be spoilery as you said and whozit said that you hadn't seen it. I've been waiting to find a copy at my local library and you can see the whys of that.

I'll also mention there is the usual family dynamics going on. Her mother taught her about making medicine and is worried about her. Her older brother doesn't think she is right but finally has to give in. Also normal. Just life and just being who she is and that was accepted by her people.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
I tried to not be spoilery as you said and whozit said that you hadn't seen it. I've been waiting to find a copy at my local library and you can see the whys of that.

I'll also mention there is the usual family dynamics going on. Her mother taught her about making medicine and is worried about her. Her older brother doesn't think she is right but finally has to give in. Also normal. Just life and just being who she is and that was accepted by her people.

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Sounds good to me. I'm pretty much sold on it.

Thanks for bringing it up.

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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
SIX, apology accepted and you were in my opinion being hard on the film.

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Not all the young men were from what I could see were killed. Just the ones that went out hunting the cat and ended up finding the predator.

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I do also feel that you discounted Naru because she was a girl.

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As I said Comanche women could be warriors which is what she wanted to be. She tried to help the trappers when they encountered the predator as well. Offering medicine to one of them.

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Now, I'm not saying that I would watch it a second time either but I can't throw it out.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
SIX, apology accepted and you were in my opinion being hard on the film.

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Well... It was an apology directly to you as well as anybody else who participated in the discussion so far. I'm pretty sure it wasn't much of an apology to the movie though.

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Not all the young men were from what I could see were killed. Just the ones that went out hunting the cat and ended up finding the predator.

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That could be true. I wasn't watching it on a big screen TV, so if there were other young men that didn't die I just didn't notice them. I can't recall seeing any men at all in the final scene when she was back with the tribe except for one of the two elders though.

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I do also feel that you discounted Naru because she was a girl.

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Well I can assure you that I didn't and that's not where my complaints about her stem from. I do want to make that clear. I realize that you're being very nice about how you say that, but for years I've been hearing that if I don't like a movie with a strong female lead it's because I'm a misogynist or I just straight up hate women. This has always been an extremely unfair assessment of reality whenever those words have been spoken or put into print.

I absolutely loved the Fallout TV show, and the main person with the most screentime is Lucy. She got herself out of a lot of scrapes too, but there was never a point during the show where I felt it was unearned or beyond belief. And that's despite the fact that she was a wide-eyed, naive, weak little thing in the beginning compared to where Naru already was the first time we meet her.

I think Predator is really hard to do right too. Let's be honest here... by all rights, every character we met in that movie should have been dead at the end of it.

Right off the bat it's hard to believe that a 90 lb girl with a short bow and an ancient gun could somehow kill and sever the head of a vastly technologically advanced alien 3 times her size when an entire group of roided out, highly trained military men including Arnold Schwezenegger and Carl Weathers in their prime didn't survive. It didn't even matter that they had in their possession a Gatling gun that was capable of cutting down an entire forest.

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As I said Comanche women could be warriors which is what she wanted to be. She tried to help the trappers when they encountered the predator as well. Offering medicine to one of them.

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I don't have a problem with the story of a woman warrior, or the fact she wanted to be one. But it does beg the question though, that if Comanche women were allowed to be warriors, why did they go so far out of their way in the first half of the movie to make it VERY clear to the audience that nobody else in her tribe wanted her to be one, including the older women in the tribe?

Just make a movie where Naru is a warrior and let her lead by example. Just show the audience a woman who is strong and already has the respect of her peers and the elders of her tribe because she's already earned that respect off-screen before we meet her. And then all you have to do is make sure you don't make stuff happen on screen that the audience isn't going to believe is possible.

There isn't any need to put those #MeToo-era politics in there. There isn't any reason to clog up half the runtime of a Predator franchise movie with that. There's plenty of great examples of strong, believable, female characters that predate this movie by decades that didn't spend a single second of their time worrying about what The Patriarchy thinks of them and their choices. They're were just people who happened to be women that were bad ass by nature and unapologetic about it. Nobody asked questions about it. We just saw it and we believed it.

I just felt that because they chose to do the story this way and highlight the "struggle" she had as "a woman trying to do a man's job", it detracted from the rest of the story and they had to dumb down other characters, including all of the males and the Predator itself, to make the plot happen.

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Now, I'm not saying that I would watch it a second time either but I can't throw it out.

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Really... I'm just kind of disappointed for you that this movie didn't have a better plot/character arc for Naru. You just don't see too many movies or TV shows that center around Native Americans/Canadians, and you certainly don't see that often at all in Sci-Fi plots. I just feel like they let you down. I think all the parts were there for a much better story, perhaps even a great movie, but they couldn't help but try to inject a bunch of messaging that by nature takes away from a real plot and solid, believable storytelling.

I didn't have a problem at all with Naru's character and personality. She wasn't just some yawn-inducing girlboss who don't need no man and was perfect without having to work at it because "female", like most of the female protagonist of the 2018-2023 era of film making were. She had struggled. And by the end she loses people who were dear to her. She was still learning to be a great warrior and she was earning it and not going around making demands out of everybody without earning the ability to be barking orders. Her motivations were very clear and believable from the beginning of the movie to the end. It's what they did outside of her character to make the plot happen that didn't agree with me.

They had all of the pieces they needed to make a really good movie. They just added a few extra unnecessary pieces that ruined the puzzle, IMO.

They could probably re-shoot less than 10% of this movie, or possibly just edit out about 3 to 5 minutes worth of scenes without any reshoots, and if done right, I'd probably had given it it a B+ or even an A instead of the C-/C that I'd give it right now. And that would be phenomenally high for me, considering my thoughts on the Predator franchise past Predator II.

Nothing in this movie was so offputting that it was close to being unwatchable. It's actually very beautifully filmed in a great setting and it's a shame I didn't watch it on a much bigger screen to take it all in. It's not a bad movie by any stretch. And despite any complaints about it here, I liked it better than any Predator movie I've seen past Predator II. It was better than a LOT of things that were coming out in 2022. It's a shame so few people have seen it.

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Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
I wouldn't worry about apologizing to the movie.

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There were a couple of young men but mostly buried in the back. I had to look for them. You are right the elders were out in front.

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I've never seen Fallout so I can't speak to it.

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Her mother's worry about her was clear and after the brother brought her back to camp. I think that was what made her mother be so adamant that she not become a warrior but stick to medicine.

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I can see where you are going and yes, I have seen better Predator movies too.

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It could have done with better writing and ideas, true. And it is very rare that you get a whole movie mostly revolving around First Nations from either Canada or the US especially with sci-fi plots.

I think that was what I liked about the movie that was making her way and struggling that she could be a warrior.

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If you look back on Native American history some of our greatest war leaders could also have been shaman or medicine men. Men like Sitting Bull or Geronimo both had the makings to be great shaman but chose the way of the warrior, like Naru.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
I wouldn't worry about apologizing to the movie.

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Okay, good. I have never worried about the feelings of a movie before, but I do care about your opinion.

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There were a couple of young men but mostly buried in the back. I had to look for them. You are right the elders were out in front.

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Okay. I will take your word for it. I didn't have my Analytical Hat on to that extent while watching the movie. Nobody jumped out at me at all other than the elders and the little girl who looked up at Naru in awe when she was made war chief, which I'm sure was the intent of the scene as it was filmed.

You would probably know a lot more about tribal life than I would, as I know just about zero and I'm just assuming that you know about your people's history. (I should point that out as being an assumption, since I'm a European mutt myself and I know just about zero history of any of the blood running in my veins)...

What do you think was the "status" of the existing battle-age males of the tribe? Why weren't they themselves hunters? Are they capable at all of hunting and/or learning how to hunt? Was there something wrong with them that they weren't part of the hunting party? Would they be capable of defending the tribe from outsiders now that the hunting party were all killed outside of Naru?

I know it ruins a lot of movies and TV Shows for me, but these are the types of questions I ask when presented with a story. And I find myself imagining what a non-Predator sequel to Prey would look like. Unless Naru's tribe merged with a neutral or friendly local tribe to survive, I'd imagine they'd have to give Naru super powers in order to defend her tribe from rival tribes or the incoming European invaders on her own. Even though I didn't buy her victory over the Predator, there was admittedly a heavy element of luck on her side for it to have happened. And I don't think they tried to hide that luck factor, which is good because it added back some believably to the situation. But you're limited on how often you can throw down the luck card before losing your audience. In order to make a follow up movie or TV show centered around War Chief Naru who's tribe did not merge with another tribe for survival, she can't have that level of luck every single time she goes into battle on her own with other war chiefs or the European invaders that are threatening her tribe.

I think a follow up to what happens to Naru's tribe after the Predator could make a great story if it were written right.

Maybe a book idea for you after you get your first one published?

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I've never seen Fallout so I can't speak to it.

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If you get a chance, you should check it out. I think you'd enjoy it and I'm curious to see what you would think of Lucy and it would better explain what I feel makes a great female character vs. a middling one.

Maybe you could even point out a part where I was being too easy on Lucy and giving her a pass on something I should have been calling out after giving Naru such a hard time.

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Her mother's worry about her was clear and after the brother brought her back to camp. I think that was what made her mother be so adamant that she not become a warrior but stick to medicine.

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Yeah. And I get that. Of course a mother is going to want her child to be safe and not be reckless. It's not a ridiculous scene at all. Like I said, I'm probably just way over-sensitive about this stuff after they pushed it all for so long. I just see this and laugh because I'm sure I could make a video with clips of Prey and everyone telling Naru she shouldn't hunt and should stick to medicine right next to all the Captain Marvel flashbacks with all the men in her life telling her she'd never succeed because she's a woman.

Like... okay. We get it. Can we just go back to writing good strong female characters again? Then we can like, yanno... spend that screen time entertaining everyone with a great story instead of putting the same 20 minute message into every movie which has a female lead in her 20's and 30's from now until the end of time?

Thanks!

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I can see where you are going and yes, I have seen better Predator movies too.

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Which ones have you seen? Which are your favorite?

I've seen Predator, Predator II and AvP for sure. I believe I saw a second AvP, though at this time without bothering to look it up I can't even say for sure there was a second AvP. I obviously didn't care for AvP.

I have to just say that I and II were my favorites. Over time I kind of thought of those two movies as just two parts to a greater whole. To my young boy mind, those stories were so believable and terrifying that I had no problem linking them both together as the same thing. They're both very different movies, and though I haven't seen either of them in probably 25 years, I'd seen them each at least half a dozen times when I was young. I would honestly have to watch both of them again if I were to decide what my actual favorite Predator movie was.

But part of me doesn't like the idea of going back and re-watching them. I've got a picture of the Predator movies that has solidified in my mind over time. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Most of the things I revisited from the past did not hold up well over time either because they were just lousy, or my perspective on everything has changed so much over time that those old things are completely not relatable to me anymore. Seeing something and thinking "Why did I like that so much back then?" isn't a great feeling, IMO. That idea alone will probably keep me from ever re-watching the original movies for the first time in nearly 30 years and picking a favorite between them.

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It could have done with better writing and ideas, true. And it is very rare that you get a whole movie mostly revolving around First Nations from either Canada or the US especially with sci-fi plots.

I think that was what I liked about the movie that was making her way and struggling that she could be a warrior.

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Yeah... I get it. And that's why I feel bad that I wrote anything about it and that I apparently just can't help myself from writing more. I just wanted more out of Naru is all.

I'd say that even after Danny Glover pulled off a miracle and defeated the Predator, the idea of the Predator was still just as terrifying as it was when everyone was killed in the first movie. Probably more so when you realize that there's more than one of them, and with the tech they've got available you can assume that there could be millions or even billions more of them on some planet in some solar system that none of us will live long enough to ever travel to. But they can come to us whenever they want to.

But somewhere along the way, they became far less scary. Humans appeared to survive them more and more often. It turns out that they could actually be communicated with and reasoned with. They were pretty much just Klingons with twice the testosterone flowing through their veins who figured out how to cloak their bodies and couldn't speak English.

... And it would appear that they're really, really, really eager to die in battle.

So right off the bat in the 2020's the idea that Naru could defeat the Predator isn't unbelievable. I went into the movie expecting that would be the case. I was looking forward to seeing how they'd do it.

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If you look back on Native American history some of our greatest war leaders could also have been shaman or medicine men. Men like Sitting Bull or Geronimo both had the makings to be great shaman but chose the way of the warrior, like Naru.

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Okay. That answers one of my earlier questions.

So Naru's tribe still has their Military Intelligence, Medical Personnel and War General. Just got to go find some more Soldiers.




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Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Well after the ones that went out were killed, I started wondering where the others were as well. So at the end, I was looking.

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Gotcha.

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I would say that I know somethings about a number of the tribes in Canada and the US. Not everything. Women in my tribe could speak at council meetings and when an idea was brought to the council it was looked at whether or not it was good for the tribe, it wasn't based on whether a man or a woman thought of it. My distant aunt Sacajawea was called to a big pow wow before the Little Big Horn, because our chief wanted her words about the white man as she had spent many years among them.

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Like... Sacajawea from the gold plated US coin? No shit?

Hey Sigs. We've got royalty in the house.

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That did puzzle me that there weren't more young men than just the group Naru's brother led. But on the other hand they were such a small band of Comanche that could explain it as well.

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Yeah. You didn't get the feeling it was a very large tribe. I would just imagine for even a tribe of that size there would be more battle ready males than the half-dozen most that we saw. They were the most expendable people in those much harsher times... but only to a certain point. It doesn't matter how many birthing aged women there were back at the settlement if nobody was left to defend it.

But maybe what we saw would have been the right amount? It's not like anybody was expecting a Predator to show up in a spaceship right in their backyard when giving everyone out their job titles.

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At then end Naru said that the band had to move, so it could be possible that they were a splinter group from a main group of Comanche. Maybe they rejoined that group.

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That is a great point. She did say that, and I remeber thinking that's not a bad idea at all, and fast. Never considered the idea that she was maybe reuniting with the larger group. I'm sure given the situation they would have welcomed everyone with open arms.

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There was an element of luck in Naru beating the Predator and like I said they would have to join up with a larger group of Comanche because there weren't enough warriors to defend them from the encroaching white man.

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For sure.

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Never know. My main character in my book right now is half-Cheyenne.

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I smell a potential sequel.

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I'll have to look for it on YouTube. My library doesn't have Fallout.

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It probably wouldn't be for quite a while. I don't know how long Amazon retains their exclusive rights or if they even license any of their stuff out for anybody else to use. Worth a watch whenever you can see it though.

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I can see your point again.

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NGL, I forgot what the point was at this point. But cool.

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I've seen Predator and Predator II. Think I've seen AvsP, but I'm not positive. I saw the first Predator because of the Govenator. and it was great film. Saw the second because I wanted to see what else they were going to do and of course Danny Glover as well. Both great films and I've thought about rewatching them myself too.

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Yeah. They were great.

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Thing is with there being only one, we don't know how long they live. Maybe this is a ritual the young ones of the Predator species has to go through and they are given all this tech and are told, "Go out into the Universe and make your mark."

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Yeah. Good point. They're not really good at making it back home though, are they?

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Exactly. Medicine people or shaman, handled injuries or foretold the future. All kinds of stuff like that.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix, I was wondering if you ever saw Wind River, from 2017? I know Brenda has.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Well after the ones that went out were killed, I started wondering where the others were as well. So at the end, I was looking.

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Gotcha.

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I would say that I know somethings about a number of the tribes in Canada and the US. Not everything. Women in my tribe could speak at council meetings and when an idea was brought to the council it was looked at whether or not it was good for the tribe, it wasn't based on whether a man or a woman thought of it. My distant aunt Sacajawea was called to a big pow wow before the Little Big Horn, because our chief wanted her words about the white man as she had spent many years among them.

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Like... Sacajawea from the gold plated US coin? No shit?

Hey Sigs. We've got royalty in the house.

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That did puzzle me that there weren't more young men than just the group Naru's brother led. But on the other hand they were such a small band of Comanche that could explain it as well.

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Yeah. You didn't get the feeling it was a very large tribe. I would just imagine for even a tribe of that size there would be more battle ready males than the half-dozen most that we saw. They were the most expendable people in those much harsher times... but only to a certain point. It doesn't matter how many birthing aged women there were back at the settlement if nobody was left to defend it.

But maybe what we saw would have been the right amount? It's not like anybody was expecting a Predator to show up in a spaceship right in their backyard when giving everyone out their job titles.

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At then end Naru said that the band had to move, so it could be possible that they were a splinter group from a main group of Comanche. Maybe they rejoined that group.

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That is a great point. She did say that, and I remeber thinking that's not a bad idea at all, and fast. Never considered the idea that she was maybe reuniting with the larger group. I'm sure given the situation they would have welcomed everyone with open arms.

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There was an element of luck in Naru beating the Predator and like I said they would have to join up with a larger group of Comanche because there weren't enough warriors to defend them from the encroaching white man.

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For sure.

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Never know. My main character in my book right now is half-Cheyenne.

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I smell a potential sequel.

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I'll have to look for it on YouTube. My library doesn't have Fallout.

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It probably wouldn't be for quite a while. I don't know how long Amazon retains their exclusive rights or if they even license any of their stuff out for anybody else to use. Worth a watch whenever you can see it though.

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I can see your point again.

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NGL, I forgot what the point was at this point. But cool.

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I've seen Predator and Predator II. Think I've seen AvsP, but I'm not positive. I saw the first Predator because of the Govenator. and it was great film. Saw the second because I wanted to see what else they were going to do and of course Danny Glover as well. Both great films and I've thought about rewatching them myself too.

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Yeah. They were great.

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Thing is with there being only one, we don't know how long they live. Maybe this is a ritual the young ones of the Predator species has to go through and they are given all this tech and are told, "Go out into the Universe and make your mark."

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Yeah. Good point. They're not really good at making it back home though, are they?

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Exactly. Medicine people or shaman, handled injuries or foretold the future. All kinds of stuff like that.

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Understood.


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Trump will be fine.
He will also be your next President.

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