CINEMA

Edge of Tomorrow

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 11, 2023 20:25
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Thursday, July 10, 2014 12:35 AM

MAL4PREZ


And now you're getting too obvious playing your sock part, JSF. You just rewrote a Hollywood movie to fit your "neocon" ideas. (And now this thread really does belong in RWED LOL!)

To take you at your word: Dude, the movie ain't real life, but neither is it some fantasy where the hero you ID with and like so much is by default 100% a hero at all times no matter what actions he takes. In your world he's the guy you like so he must be right ALL the time, and you twist and turn and wriggle to make it so, even more than he did on screen.

It says a lot about the character you are playing on this website, JSF, that you'd be so selfish as to think it's OK for a general carrying the survival of the human race on his back to bow down to the demands of an inferior, inexperienced, cowardly blowhard\.

BTW, have you noticed how different your style and language are in different threads, or how it's all shifted over time? Getting sloppy, my friend.

Still, my original offer stands. Let's see what the DVD says. Let's see what the writers - the actual creators of this movie and its characters - intended. I know you'll just somehow claim to know the "truth" better than the people who actually created this fantasy and it's characters, but that's OK. I enjoy seeing how twisty you get in defense of your bizarre RWA role play.

(Any lurkers here who aren't familiar with JSF and me from the RWED forums, my apologies. This is too much petty bitchiness for a "Cinema" thread, but follow RWED for a bit and you'll see where it comes from.

Basically, JSF is nuts. And he knows it. He plays it well.)




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Thursday, July 10, 2014 11:47 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Tom Cruise displays something that appears to be telepathy, when it is not that at all. It is precognition or, exactly, seeing the future because he has been there. Cruise is better than River Tam at discovering people's inner secrets. For example:
"Your name is NOT really Ford. Ford was your friend who died in combat on his first day. You took his place and send your paychecks to his family."

That little revelation surprised Ford and the entire platoon. Cruise persuades them to follow him on a suicide mission to Paris. Go or not go, they know they die at dawn. So they go.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, July 10, 2014 12:46 PM

STORYMARK


Great flick. Saw it a few nights ago. Well made, a clever script, and really well staged action. Way better than most anything in theatres right now.



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Thursday, July 10, 2014 12:49 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Any lurkers here who aren't familiar with JSF and me from the RWED forums, my apologies. This is too much petty bitchiness for a "Cinema" thread, but follow RWED for a bit and you'll see where it comes from.


One of the prime examples of why I don't visit RWED, and I'm getting gorram tired of you and others bringing your petty bitchiness into the other forums where it does not belong.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Thursday, July 10, 2014 7:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Great flick. Saw it a few nights ago. Well made, a clever script, and really well staged action. Way better than most anything in theatres right now.



Unfortunately, it is no longer in my local theaters. But I agree with this at this point.


SPOILER ALERT



CONTAINS SPOILER DISCUSSION



Although Mal4prez has gone off the deep end, one point was brought up, and I wonder if any others consider it valid.
When the Angel of Verdun goes through the couple thousand versions where only Cage has the experience, and she can only trust what he says, we see her reaction much of the time. When she hears it for the final time, at the end, we don't see it. Will it be a different reaction, merely because the end has come, they have victory, there is no battle or combat or death before them, where all prior versions (which we saw) the promise of death and potential extinction prevailed?
I have not yet wrapped around this entirely. I had not thought it would be different, and the reaction would be much the same as each other time we saw. But do any of you think it would have been different at the end? Not that she would not believe it, but would she have a different sense of it?

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Friday, July 18, 2014 3:28 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


“You’re a coward and a liar putting your life above theirs. The good news is there’s hope for you, private. Hope in the form of glorious combat. Battle is the great redeemer. The fire and crucible in which the only true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in. … I envy you, Cage. Tomorrow morning you will be baptized — born again.”

That line is not accident, JSF. It is the theme of the movie! Good lord, open your eyes!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You know, Mal4Prez, although I heard this speech by the Sgt. Farrell over and over again, until I read them just now, it never really registered with me in quite the same way. I mean, I knew it was key, but it is the driving theme of Cage's journey. Combat did test his metal and forged a new being - in other words - baptism by fire. He never really saw the big picture, not until he saw the destruction first hand and the consequences of his actions and non-actions.

Each time he dies, he's reborn with a new outlook; a reset on how his decisions affect those around him.


SGG

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Friday, July 18, 2014 3:37 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Here, here!

Discuss, disagree, pontificate......................but please leave bitchiness at the door, we already gave at the office.

"Now, gentlemen, go to your corners and come out fighting. Marquess of Queensbury Rules are to be observed at all times. I thank you!"
(spoken with a Irish Brogue a la Barry Fitzgerald)


SGG

quote]Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Any lurkers here who aren't familiar with JSF and me from the RWED forums, my apologies. This is too much petty bitchiness for a "Cinema" thread, but follow RWED for a bit and you'll see where it comes from.


One of the prime examples of why I don't visit RWED, and I'm getting gorram tired of you and others bringing your petty bitchiness into the other forums where it does not belong.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.


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Friday, July 18, 2014 3:45 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I could tell he liked it because we recited some of the more funny lines and scenes in the movie, plus, and this was a big one for him, we discussed the ending. We both were not satisfied.......me, I wanted it to be told from a different point of view (no spoilers) and he was questioning the helicopter scene. Why there? (For those who've seen it, you know what I'm talking about. If not, send me a message).

T'was better the second time around.

SGG


Do you mean why did the Omega select the location of the helicopter scene for it's significance? It hought that was explained well.

You wanted the ending to be told from a different point of view, or the whole film? From a different character's PoV? What?



When I originally saw the film I didn't realize that, once he beat the Omega that everything was as it was prior to the invasion of the aliens.

In terms of the ending, I thought it would have more impact at the end showing her point of view; meaning meeting Cage for the first time. Then cutting to him smiling at Rita (please know that I note this as a minor quibble on my part).


SGG

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Friday, July 18, 2014 4:16 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


First of all, sorry i took so long in responding.

The hero's truth or reversal: the moment when he sees his purpose, goal or mission. When he, or she, discovers the heart of the matter.

In Rain Man: Cruise's character is angry that his father left him nothing and the fortune was inherited by his older brother Ray (Hoffman's brilliant autistic performance). Cruise, again, was a selfish SOB who didn't deserve the inheritance (he obsessed to the point of distraction)

There is a scene about half way through the movie when, after traveling on the road for some time, they stop at a motel and during a emotional moment for his brother Ray, Cruise's character discovers that Raymond was "Rain Man" who loved and protected his younger brother (He couldn't pronounce his name well).

He was so young that he barely remembered, but remember he did. His connection to his older brother Rain Man was strong as a kid, one which his parents took away from him at an early age. In that moment you could see his transformation (Cruise is good at that).

In EoT, that moment of clarity comes at the bridge in London, the one he was crossing on his motorcycle. He stops to look down into the river and he sees the Mimics scurrying through the water - they had reached London. It is at that moment that he sees his truth. He's got to put on his game face and get trained properly or else. I believe it's the moment he decides to go it alone, without Rita.

My quibble with the aliens was minor on my first viewing, but here it goes - I thought they looked cheesy. There, that's it. Second time around I got a much better screen.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Hi all. Haven't had a chance to write a good reply here, especially since I burned out my laptop. :/. But now due to yet another wiring problem on the lovely .$@#ing metro north, I'm going to be stuck on this stupid train for some time.

So - SGG, sorry I never replied to your post way up. Yes, we saw it much the same. Except I'm confused as to what you meant by the hero seeing his truth. And what was your quibble with the aliens?

Maybe we need some spoiler discussion re the ending...

Select to view spoiler:



What irks people? Do we mean Paris? Or that it backed up one extra day after the omega was killed so that d-day never happened? Or that on the final timeline our hero never actually talked to our FMB?

Honestly, I kind of liked how it cut off. I like imagining him explaining it all to her, and her reaction. That would be fun, but couldn't be done in the film. Nice thing to imagine while leaving the theater.

As for backing up a day, it made sense. It totally fit into the arc that he didn't deserve his rank and uniform initially, but after all his heroics he did, and his cowardly act of desertion was wiped out. Yes, it was very pat and neat. But it fit the arc. I too want to read the story it was based on and see what happened there.

So I agree that there is something annoying about how tight and happy-happy it all was, which is what I meant in my first review. I can't explain it, but I prefer to be left a little more... Not confused, but something like that. It was just too neat. But I can't really fault it because it was all explained and set up very well.




So, on to the casting. Emily Blunt = perfection. No doubt there.

Tom... Well, actually, he was quite good. I don't think he's too old at all. It fit the plot that the character had to be an untrained noob, but smart and of high rank, and his history as an adman was funny and fit well. It totally worked in terms of him being so dislikable at first, so I could get over how much I don't like the actor. I like to think that wasn't an accident. The writers knew.

But I don't see much else as a plot adjustment made just so they could cast Tom. The age thing, I mean. It was basic to the story that he had to be a dork with absolutely no combat training to start. How else could that be true of a grunt? And him being high rank allowed as to meet the top commander guy at the beginning. A grunt wouldn't get that. And if he wasn't a noob, we wouldn't need all those great training scenes with the FMB. (I like that name lol!)

My problem is my own bias, really. Tom played it perfectly. I can't fault him, don't know who else I'd cast there. I just hate the idea of providing any kind of support to this despiccable man. I don't think the movie would be better with a different male lead, but I'd feel better about liking it.

The only name I'd throw out there is Jeremy Renner, but that's only because I had a wicked crush on him for a while. :) until he sucked in the avengers, that is.



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Friday, July 18, 2014 5:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


SPOILER ALERT

SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST




Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
“You’re a coward and a liar putting your life above theirs. The good news is there’s hope for you, private. Hope in the form of glorious combat. Battle is the great redeemer. The fire and crucible in which the only true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in. … I envy you, Cage. Tomorrow morning you will be baptized — born again.”

That line is not accident, JSF. It is the theme of the movie! Good lord, open your eyes!


You may think it is your theme for the movie, but that does not mean that Cage is as you view him. Your conclusions are not supposed to support your assumptions. Conclusions should be supported by facts and evidence.
Quote:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Each time he dies, he's reborn with a new outlook; a reset on how his decisions affect those around him.

SGG


Good luck with that.
I disagree.

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Friday, July 18, 2014 5:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


SPOILER ALERT

SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I could tell he liked it because we recited some of the more funny lines and scenes in the movie, plus, and this was a big one for him, we discussed the ending. We both were not satisfied.......me, I wanted it to be told from a different point of view (no spoilers) and he was questioning the helicopter scene. Why there? (For those who've seen it, you know what I'm talking about. If not, send me a message).

T'was better the second time around.

SGG


Do you mean why did the Omega select the location of the helicopter scene for it's significance? It hought that was explained well.

You wanted the ending to be told from a different point of view, or the whole film? From a different character's PoV? What?


When I originally saw the film I didn't realize that, once he beat the Omega that everything was as it was prior to the invasion of the aliens.

In terms of the ending, I thought it would have more impact at the end showing her point of view; meaning meeting Cage for the first time. Then cutting to him smiling at Rita (please know that I note this as a minor quibble on my part).

SGG


That IS what was shown - her meeting him for the first time. Everything else that we and Cage saw didn't happen, and never will. This is precisely why we have seen her reaction to what he will say, because we've already seen the exact same thing over and over every time she meets him.

I still don't understand your reference to the helicopter scene - why there what?

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Friday, July 18, 2014 5:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


SPOILER ALERT

SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST




Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
First of all, sorry i took so long in responding.

The hero's truth or reversal: the moment when he sees his purpose, goal or mission. When he, or she, discovers the heart of the matter.


In EoT, that moment of clarity comes at the bridge in London, the one he was crossing on his motorcycle. He stops to look down into the river and he sees the Mimics scurrying through the water - they had reached London. It is at that moment that he sees his truth. He's got to put on his game face and get trained properly or else. I believe it's the moment he decides to go it alone, without Rita.

SGG



I think you have it backwards. That scene was after he knew he had to go without Rita if she was to ever survive (and his life without her would not be worth the world being saved from invasion), he was never able to get that far (past the helicopter) with her along. The last dying scene with her at the helicopter was the last time he brought her along, until he found out the vision was a trap. He would not have gotten to that scene you mention if he had not already decided to go it alone, without Rita.
Also, he had already been getting trained properly - going alone was only a strategery decision.
1. He advances to the helicopter scene, decides next life to bypass Rita to save her life.
2. He advances, without Rita to find it was a trap (just like hers at Verdun).
3. He tells her and the science guy it was a trap, and they re-team to go directly to the weaselly a-hole General.
The 0nly "or else" time was after the transfusion - after that the world ends. Co-opting J Squad was the biggest risk the world faced, and holding her in reserve until he got their attention was the secret weapon - was that the ballsy idea of Rita, or Cage? Likely Cage, because she did not know them. Also remember, he needed to already have made all those connections during his other lives, not knowing that this one time, without the possibility of reboot, he would need that info to convince them - and while you and Mal4 seem to think he was slacking during all those other lives, he was constantly learning the info which would result in the world being saved - and he alone had the power and knowledge needed to save it.

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Friday, July 18, 2014 9:22 PM

MAL4PREZ


Yeah, so now you must all see why I find JSF to be such an ass. His attitude carries over from other boards, because he is what he is. He worships any "hero figure" that is sold to him, allowing no criticism, no matter how well grounded.

That obviousness aside - SGG, you bring up some good points, and none I disagree with. There was a definite change in Cage's character. I hadn't really connected it to the bridge scene, but I think you're right on. It makes sense.

Back to JSF's ignorance: I'll bet any online pseudo currency that when the DVD comes out and the writers/directors/actors comment on the arc of the show, they'll describe the arc of Cage going from loser-coward to hero, rather than JSF's neocon fantasy of "always the perfect hero that no one really appreciated".

It's why the RWED arguments come into this: the reason JSF can't allow for the rather obvious arc of the movie is the same reason he has so many blatantly stupid opinions in RWED. He worships his own side as *always* good, no matter what. He cannot grok a shift in character, a person going from bad to good, learning and changing based on the circumstances. I am more than a little amused that JSF is so sold on his neocon worldview that he cannot interpret a very obvious character arc in a completely non subtle Hollywood movie.

Kvetch all he wants: the truth will out in the end. I will point it out to JSF when it happens, and he will come up with some new kvetch about how it's so unfair to mock him for being wrong.

Put this in the predictions thread. I will follow up. Will you, cringing little JSF?


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Saturday, July 19, 2014 5:16 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Yes, I see. But it is a good challenge, testing my mettle (I used metal before to describe Cage's fortitude, obviously that was the wrong word).

I love a good challenge.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Yeah, so now you must all see why I find JSF to be such an ass. His attitude carries over from other boards, because he is what he is. He worships any "hero figure" that is sold to him, allowing no criticism, no matter how well grounded.

That obviousness aside - SGG, you bring up some good points, and none I disagree with. There was a definite change in Cage's character. I hadn't really connected it to the bridge scene, but I think you're right on. It makes sense.

Back to JSF's ignorance: I'll bet any online pseudo currency that when the DVD comes out and the writers/directors/actors comment on the arc of the show, they'll describe the arc of Cage going from loser-coward to hero, rather than JSF's neocon fantasy of "always the perfect hero that no one really appreciated".

It's why the RWED arguments come into this: the reason JSF can't allow for the rather obvious arc of the movie is the same reason he has so many blatantly stupid opinions in RWED. He worships his own side as *always* good, no matter what. He cannot grok a shift in character, a person going from bad to good, learning and changing based on the circumstances. I am more than a little amused that JSF is so sold on his neocon worldview that he cannot interpret a very obvious character arc in a completely non subtle Hollywood movie.

Kvetch all he wants: the truth will out in the end. I will point it out to JSF when it happens, and he will come up with some new kvetch about how it's so unfair to mock him for being wrong.

Put this in the predictions thread. I will follow up. Will you, cringing little JSF?


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Saturday, July 19, 2014 6:34 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Class is in session (boy that was cocky) I'm feeling the flow..............

"I think you have it backwards."

Perhaps I do, but let's dig a little deeper, shall we!?

The Theme: The heart of the matter

Cage is not exactly hero material at the outset (we agree on that much, right?) He tries to weasel his way out of being thrown into combat. He even can't stand the sight of blood. Okay, the story establishes that early on. This is his truth. Ya with me so far.

Next............

He's at the base camp and he's gently awakened by a drill sergeant, and we get our first glance at Rita's poster on the bus, which is significant, but more on that later**

Skipping on down to his first encounter with Master Sgt. Farrell

Farrell sizes him up and, through his vast experience, he instinctively knows the type he's dealing with. He's a liar (ad man) and a coward, putting himself above others. Selfish, etc.

Why am I going this way? Patience grasshopper, it will all come together.

Farrell strips him of his rank - he is now a private. The military routinely does this, I'm sure I don't need to elaborate. But now he is nothing, a "parasitic scum" and about to be "baptised" in glorious battle, D-Day!
Foreshadowing made flesh.

Farrell's speech, as the audience laughed and giggle (I must say, as I watched I was not aware of it's significance to where I am now - the theme of the movie - and how I, along with my fellow moviegoers, brushed it aside)
was giving us the film's thesis. Now, mind you, I said the film's thesis.

This is important, well because it's crucial to the main thrust of the film, but also because it lurks in the background ready to pounce at the right moment. The time loop; hero = Rita, already a mean mother and transferred to our liar/coward Cage.

It's about to get real!

He goes to battle and, just as the sergeant said, thought of himself and used the bomb to survive. Little did he know that was the beginning of his "baptism" and hence to the beginning of his journey and his fate. Not battle (Ooo, I have goosebumps) but to meet Rita.

Damn, I'm good!

More on that later. let me answer your question directly.

**Actually, I change my mind, because this will tie in nicely. Back when he awakens at base camp, he sees Rita on the bus poster. He knows who she is, and I say he's intrigued, but he's about to meet her (we know this from the trailers). This is his fate. Again movie foreshadowing. Back to the point.
She is everything he's not, they're at opposite ends of the spectrum. Hero - Coward.

They meet in battle, and he steps into her world when he kills the Alpha.
Their fate is sealed right then and there. It is the How we get from point A to point B. From low life pond scum to hero. She trains him because he's their only hope for survival. She must do everything in her power to give him her experience, and hope that he will not wimp out. He's really not into it, no focus, just going through the motions. Until he gets to know her.

Now, each time he resets, he sees her bus poster and she's becoming more to him than just his trainer. We all know that, so on to the helicopter scene where she dies. Yes, he realizes that they cannot get past that point, and "we" see that he cares for her. He doesn't want to live in a world without her, so I agree with you. But it is her determination, coupled with his emotional connection to her, that drives him now. He is no longer thinking of self. He has become HERO.

Now, at the bridge he does come to a realization. He must train harder and focus like never before. He has something to fight for - Rita. She had poured into him everything she was, and he wants this in his life. He is HERO and it was forged within him by her sheer will and strength of character. He is reborn, no longer the sniveling coward. He falls for her and wants desperately to save her, at all costs. So, he does what he needs to to save her and goes it alone - not for combat, but for love of her and what he has become - A better man.

His fate was sealed the moment he clapped eyes on her at base camp.
But he wasn't ready.

SGG

(there was more but somehow it got erased. That will have to come back to me)

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT

SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST




Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
First of all, sorry i took so long in responding.

The hero's truth or reversal: the moment when he sees his purpose, goal or mission. When he, or she, discovers the heart of the matter.


In EoT, that moment of clarity comes at the bridge in London, the one he was crossing on his motorcycle. He stops to look down into the river and he sees the Mimics scurrying through the water - they had reached London. It is at that moment that he sees his truth. He's got to put on his game face and get trained properly or else. I believe it's the moment he decides to go it alone, without Rita.

SGG



I think you have it backwards. That scene was after he knew he had to go without Rita if she was to ever survive (and his life without her would not be worth the world being saved from invasion), he was never able to get that far (past the helicopter) with her along. The last dying scene with her at the helicopter was the last time he brought her along, until he found out the vision was a trap. He would not have gotten to that scene you mention if he had not already decided to go it alone, without Rita.
Also, he had already been getting trained properly - going alone was only a strategery decision.
1. He advances to the helicopter scene, decides next life to bypass Rita to save her life.
2. He advances, without Rita to find it was a trap (just like hers at Verdun).
3. He tells her and the science guy it was a trap, and they re-team to go directly to the weaselly a-hole General.
The 0nly "or else" time was after the transfusion - after that the world ends. Co-opting J Squad was the biggest risk the world faced, and holding her in reserve until he got their attention was the secret weapon - was that the ballsy idea of Rita, or Cage? Likely Cage, because she did not know them. Also remember, he needed to already have made all those connections during his other lives, not knowing that this one time, without the possibility of reboot, he would need that info to convince them - and while you and Mal4 seem to think he was slacking during all those other lives, he was constantly learning the info which would result in the world being saved - and he alone had the power and knowledge needed to save it.


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Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:12 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
...and while you and Mal4 seem to think he was slacking during all those other lives...



Shift those goalposts LOL! No one said this. The man *started* a coward was my point. I said nothing about "all" those other lives.

Hmm. Perhaps you disagree with me because you never actually read my posts and have no idea of what I'm saying.



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Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:46 AM

MAL4PREZ


**SPOILERS TO FOLLOW

Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Cage is not exactly hero material at the outset (we agree on that much, right?)


Well, you and I agree. JSF sez this:

Quote:

No. The General was being an ass. You might think of it as "first wave" and write them off. But those were supposed to be trained guys. He was not, absolutely not. He was wasting a suit/armor thing. He absolutely should not have been there. You might think him being shanghai'd was reasonable, but that reeks of Criminal acts under the UCMJ. He[Cage] was trying to be reasonable. The general falsified documents, falsely accused him of desertion, framed him, the General was the weasel and coward. Not Cage.


The rest of your take -

The scene in London, on the bridge, I originally didn't see as so important as a character moment. I didn't think he was really deserting when he went for a beer, just taking a day off out of exhaustion and frustration. The attack on London I took to be the writers just letting the audience know how *important* this battle is, in case we hadn't caught it. Cage and Rita already knew that the aliens were out to make this day the Final Battle, right?. (It's been a while so I might have mixed up the timeline a bit, but I think they had that figured out early on.)

But I like your take, that even as he learned to fight and starts to get bad-ass he is still largely selfish. The attack on London and the middle-name helicopter death of Rita are what turned him around internally, because he has that connection to her and something to fight for.

So, yeah. Total agreement!


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Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:53 AM

MAL4PREZ


**MORE SPOILERS

Back to the ending: Rita's POV, yes, that's totally what I meant by the way I'd tell it if I'd been clever enough to come up with this story. From her POV, and the aliens are suddenly all dead for some reason she doesn't know, but then this guy shows up and tells her how they won, how she trained him and guided him and died in battle over and over and in Paris sacrificed herself so he could kill the omega. All these tellings done in his POV, so her POV is maybe only a prologue and epilogue.

Which gives the victory away at the start, but come on, does anyone really doubt the good guys will win in a movie like this?

And of course she'd believe it as she always does, because she's been through it. And he knows her middle name. ;)

So, JSF, that's what I mean by this interaction between them being different. Of course her initial reaction is the same, as was shown in the movie, but everything to follow the cut-off is all new. No rush to save the world, to train, to survive. Just a long talk while he tells the story. And of course, a budding romance... LOL!


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Sunday, July 20, 2014 2:38 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I agree with you that the scene in the bar is not him deserting, but rather him taking a break to regroup, recharge and see what angle he could approach the battle from. Even when the old codgers insult him by calling him a coward, it doesn't phase him, he's already changed, he just doesn't realize fully the reason why.

I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline myself, but that moment on the bridge was a crucial moment. During his training by Rita, he constantly complains whenever she goes to "reset" because he's hurt or wounded. By the helicopter/Rita scene he's already in love with her, and, for the life of him, he can't figure out how to save her.

Damn, I'm definitely getting the DVD with all the trimmings. The more I try to analyze and discuss the more intrigued I get about this movie's moments and set ups. Each moment I'm more convinced that this was a near perfect movie, as actioners go. Damn, for any movie. I always complain about plot, set up and pay off. I was disappointed in the ending because it was neatly, but quite abruptly tied up into a cute bow. It was, for me anyways, anti-climatic. But not in a totally dissatisfying way. It's just that after all that brilliant set up during the first 3/4 of the movie, it felt like they rushed those final scenes to fit the movie under a certain time.

JSF's opinions notwithstanding.............

To me the bridge scene was saying to us and to Cage - the battle at the beach was lost and now the aliens were IN London. The look on his face was "Shit, this is serious. I gotta do something NOW!" Then he resets. If I remember it correctly, it is then that he gets his game face on and bares down on his training that even Rita looks at him and says "Wow, look at him go." There is a great sequence where he's so focused that he destroys all the practice robots with such ease and assuredness. The final battle sequence the writers let their guard down for a moment, they slip just a little.

Again, I have to read that book. The ending was good, but not great like the rest of the movie, in terms of set up and plot. But that's just me.

As for the general's motivations - truly he was not amused by Cage's attempt at bribery. A low level move on his part, further showing Cage's character. Our friend seemed to overlook that little tidbit. The general's reaction was quite expected under the circumstances. He wanted that PR work to be done his way, period.

The Bridge Scene (as I call it) was when he sees "this is it," as I stated above, but yeah it's been establish by brilliant writing. But remember Rita tells him that it was a trap, so that's in the back of everyone's mind. Could they be setting Cage up for another trap? You see how that is worked in so smoothly by the writers. The seed is planted. But what Cage realizes is that the aliens must have won at the beach because here they are in London. it's like the final chess piece.

The Rita/Helicopter Death scene: Again the writing. It is here where we come to see just how much Cage cares for Rita. The coffee, the little details, the wanting to know her middle name. But there's more and "we" find out as Rita does, that Cage is holding out. In an attempt to save her, he withholds the keys to the copter. With all his fussing over her, she figures it out. He's trying to hard to have her stay there, because he knows she dies and he can't stop or change it. Remember back when the Big guy with no underwear gets smushed by the transporter and Cage turns away as if saying, what the hell he's toast. Well, he comes to that same reality with Rita at this point. It here where I think he decides, "I'm not going to find her and go it alone."

The writing was so good there because we find out at the same moment that Rita does. They show us, the visual equivalent of showing us in a novel....only better. So yes, the Final Battle was supposed to be on the beach, and both Rita and Cage know this, but they change their fate. And now the Omega must set up another trap to rid himself of Cage.

And........The attack on London and the middle-name helicopter death of Rita are what turned him around internally, because he has that connection to her and something to fight for.

Agreed. It is that connection that drives him, and so he goes out to reset the day, to save the women he loves. Very well set up, by the way. Which brings me to when he first sees her poster on the side of the bus Day One at base camp. He fell in love with her then, she was his fate, only thing was he didn't know yet because he wasn't the man he is after the final reset.
She helped him become the man he is at the end. And so, it was meant to be. Their meeting, as she stated to him, if only we had met under different circumstances and kisses him goodbye.

So he saves the world, including her, so they could meet and fall in love.
It is subtle, but nonetheless there. Like I said, brilliant writing. It reminds me of the Terminator. Sarah inspires Reese, who's in love with her; he teaches her to become a soldier, through one night of passion they conceive John, whom Sarah teaches to be the leader of the rebels in the future who sends him back in time to save his mother before he's born.

Not exactly the same, but the whole time jumping paradox is present.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
**SPOILERS TO FOLLOW

Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Cage is not exactly hero material at the outset (we agree on that much, right?)


Well, you and I agree. JSF sez this:

Quote:

No. The General was being an ass. You might think of it as "first wave" and write them off. But those were supposed to be trained guys. He was not, absolutely not. He was wasting a suit/armor thing. He absolutely should not have been there. You might think him being shanghai'd was reasonable, but that reeks of Criminal acts under the UCMJ. He[Cage] was trying to be reasonable. The general falsified documents, falsely accused him of desertion, framed him, the General was the weasel and coward. Not Cage.


The rest of your take -

The scene in London, on the bridge, I originally didn't see as so important as a character moment. I didn't think he was really deserting when he went for a beer, just taking a day off out of exhaustion and frustration. The attack on London I took to be the writers just letting the audience know how *important* this battle is, in case we hadn't caught it. Cage and Rita already knew that the aliens were out to make this day the Final Battle, right?. (It's been a while so I might have mixed up the timeline a bit, but I think they had that figured out early on.)

But I like your take, that even as he learned to fight and starts to get bad-ass he is still largely selfish. The attack on London and the middle-name helicopter death of Rita are what turned him around internally, because he has that connection to her and something to fight for.

So, yeah. Total agreement!


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Sunday, July 20, 2014 3:55 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Epilogue and Prologue...........see this is why I look forward to discussing movies with you. You make me think. I never would have thought of a prologue.

Now it doesn't necessarily have to give away the ending. Bare with me a moment.

Scene: We come in upon the great battle at Verdun. We see Rita in full armor kicking ass, they win, she's wounded and transported asap to the MASH unit, accompanied by her squad - a lot of macho crap goes on; like one of her crew threatens the doctors with death if she dies, she's tagged with the FMB moniker - "tough as nails, she'll never die" - blood transfusion.

She wakes up and we see this look on her face, everyone is celebrating, drinking and carrying on, the general and his press staff names her the "Angel of Verdun" (that instead of FMB), by her bedside is the scientist who knows her secret, she whispers to him and he gets the same incredulous look on his face (all the while she doesn't utter a word). It's Cage pitching an ad for the war in voice over, but he's mainly bragging about himself, how good he is. He mentions that he's going to see the general, self-importance at being called in and they're sending a helicopter.

Meanwhile, as Cage speaks, the camera is slowly zooming in on Rita's eyes and she stares blankly until all we have is her eyes.

As Cage mentions the helicopter, cut to the scene when the copter comes in with him. So we go from Rita's eyes to the helicopter hovering above Trafalgar Square.

It establishes a few of things: Rita is a bad ass; Cage is a used car salesman, Rita's scientist friend, her squad respects her, something is amiss (because of that look Rita gives straight to the camera), foreshadowing of Rita and Cage's fate - all without revealing anything to the audience.

EPILOGUE:

Of course, the ending would need to change a bit. Well, everything remains the same until the moment Rita kisses Cage goodbye.

She goes off to battle the Alpha to distract him from going after Cage, but she dies. We see her courageously battle the Alpha and see her die. The Alpha then goes after Cage, he pulls the pins and the last shot we see are the pins floating in the water - BLAST, screen goes white.

The screen stays white for several seconds, then the faint sound of a news anchor reporting that the war is over. The Angel of Verdun is now the Angel of Orleans. She heroically leads the army to victory in Orleans (not Paris, an obvious tie-in to Joan of Arc who lead the French against the English despite impossible odds).

Church bells ring, doves fly, people dancing in the streets, cats and dogs living together, Joy every where except............

Cut to Rita doing her Yoga thing at the base, alone as usual, her men in the background as usual. She is as focused as ever and nobody goes near her.

Cut to an exterior shot of a helicopter (that seems to be a theme of good and bad news) landing in Trafalgar Square. It opens, door closes..........

Next the camera is following the footsteps, along the corridor everyone is yelling "Attention" but the camera never leaves the feet.

Cut to Rita looking out toward the corridor in her yoga position, all she sees are the feet of someone approaching. She stops, rises.

Camera is focused on her face, she asks him what gives him the nerve to disturb her.

Cut to Cage's face: "Have I got a story to tell you."

He smiles, freeze frame.

Now, will that ending work? Yep. It's established early on that the Omega controls the whole shebang. So it has the powers of the Alpha and then some.
So the audience will assume that Cage reset the timeline because he got the Omega's blood. Cruise still gets his happy ending with a somewhat surprise ending, since we don't see him actually die. But that's minor.

I dare say that even if we know that the good guys are going to win, it's the how, if presented properly, that we are interested in. How did they meet? How did he get away? Cage must have killed the Omega because everything is reset, but he sacrificed himself for his love for Rita. A true hero.

In my ending both Rita and Cage get to be heroes. Although it's already established that Rita is the hero at the outset, Cage becomes the unknown soldier in my ending. So, did I miss anything?


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
**MORE SPOILERS

Back to the ending: Rita's POV, yes, that's totally what I meant by the way I'd tell it if I'd been clever enough to come up with this story. From her POV, and the aliens are suddenly all dead for some reason she doesn't know, but then this guy shows up and tells her how they won, how she trained him and guided him and died in battle over and over and in Paris sacrificed herself so he could kill the omega. All these tellings done in his POV, so her POV is maybe only a prologue and epilogue.

Which gives the victory away at the start, but come on, does anyone really doubt the good guys will win in a movie like this?

And of course she'd believe it as she always does, because she's been through it. And he knows her middle name. ;)

So, JSF, that's what I mean by this interaction between them being different. Of course her initial reaction is the same, as was shown in the movie, but everything to follow the cut-off is all new. No rush to save the world, to train, to survive. Just a long talk while he tells the story. And of course, a budding romance... LOL!


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Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I was disappointed in the ending because it was neatly, but quite abruptly tied up into a cute bow. It was, for me anyways, anti-climatic. But not in a totally dissatisfying way. It's just that after all that brilliant set up during the first 3/4 of the movie, it felt like they rushed those final scenes to fit the movie under a certain time. . . .
In my ending both Rita and Cage get to be heroes.

I think the alternative ending in the book would make for a very unsatisfying movie. Tom Cruise promises the forever dead, with no hope of a reset, Emily Blunt:
Quote:

While I live and breathe, humanity will never fall. I promise you. It may take a dozen years, but I will win this war for you. Even if you won’t be here to see it. You were the only person I wanted to protect, and you were gone.
The book's ending was too Japanese for me.
Quote:

I sat there for some time holding the last cup of coffee she’d ever made, for someone she’d barely known. Its thin aroma stirred in me an insufferable longing and sadness. A small colony of blue-green mold bobbed on the surface of the coffee. Raising the cup to my lips, I drank.
That's not a good ending for a movie. www.amazon.com/All-Need-Kill-Hiroshi-Sakurazaka/dp/1421527618/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 21, 2014 3:22 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Yes, I had read that the book's ending was too dark for public consumption. Tom Cruise "suggested" the happier ending, another take on the romantic comedy boy-meets-girl syndrome.

To me it felt like Tom Terrific set it up for Cage to be the ultimate hero, again saving the day. In my ending both top the hill, both are heroes.
She saves him (the training) which allows him to save her (reset the day).
Like they would listen to little old me.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I was disappointed in the ending because it was neatly, but quite abruptly tied up into a cute bow. It was, for me anyways, anti-climatic. But not in a totally dissatisfying way. It's just that after all that brilliant set up during the first 3/4 of the movie, it felt like they rushed those final scenes to fit the movie under a certain time. . . .
In my ending both Rita and Cage get to be heroes.

I think the alternative ending in the book would make for a very unsatisfying movie. Tom Cruise promises the forever dead, with no hope of a reset, Emily Blunt:
Quote:

While I live and breathe, humanity will never fall. I promise you. It may take a dozen years, but I will win this war for you. Even if you won’t be here to see it. You were the only person I wanted to protect, and you were gone.
The book's ending was too Japanese for me.
Quote:

I sat there for some time holding the last cup of coffee she’d ever made, for someone she’d barely known. Its thin aroma stirred in me an insufferable longing and sadness. A small colony of blue-green mold bobbed on the surface of the coffee. Raising the cup to my lips, I drank.
That's not a good ending for a movie. www.amazon.com/All-Need-Kill-Hiroshi-Sakurazaka/dp/1421527618/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


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Monday, July 21, 2014 1:35 PM

MAL4PREZ


LALALALA... *fingers in ears* I'm not listening!

I don't want to know anything about the book until I find it and read it myself, so I'm ignoring those posts. No offense. ;)

I like your mini-fanfic, SGG. On further thought, I want to add that in a book it'd be cool to see some of what happened in Verdun. Have Rita tell her story too.

So, I actually went to see this again on the weekend, just to follow up discussions here. One new observation: Rita's reaction the last time she meets Cage is in fact different than all the others. Her usual reaction is: "Who said you could talk to me? Have I got something on my face?"

The last time, when he is outfitted as a Major rather than a Private, she says: "Can I help you?"



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Monday, July 21, 2014 6:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
**MORE SPOILERS

Which gives the victory away at the start, but come on, does anyone really doubt the good guys will win in a movie like this?


Win, there might be not doubt - but will they survive? All of them? Will only one of them survive? Neither of them? You really think there is no doubt with this? Perhaps you have not seen Oblivion? The protagonist we all admire does not survive, and he knew he would not when he made his ATTEMPT to end the strife, whether his attempt would be successful or not.

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Monday, July 21, 2014 6:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT

SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST





I still don't understand your reference to the helicopter scene - why there what?


Repeating the question because I still didn't see a response, or answer. Or if I did, did not recognize it as such. Care to clarify?

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Monday, July 21, 2014 6:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Looks interesting. Seems like another high-concept or thinker flick. Is Cruise working up an arc with Reacher, Oblivion, and now Edge of Tomorrow? I know some didn't pay attention to Oblivion, but it was another movie where the cinema audience which didn't pay attention during the showing were confused at the end, and those who did were explaining it to them. Sure, Reacher is a book series, but the flick was portrayed as a puzzle to solve until the last part.
Maybe Inception struck a chord.
Is he trying to copy Arnold's arc of Terminator, Predator, Total Recall? Or Paxton with Terminator, Weird Science (wasn't deep, but got him face time), Aliens? Or Biehn with Terminator, Aliens, Seventh Seal, Abyss? Or Pitt with Seven, 12 Monkeys, Sleepers?

I'm sure many have discounted Cruise's roles, but maybe his production partner is picking them better now.
Any comments?


Regarding the original proposition, it would seem that TC has gone on an arc with Oblivion and EoT which has gone over the heads of many viewers. I figured it was less subtle than the likes of Inception in each case, but I had not considered it all that much for the astute to get. I was not all that surprised by the amount of those in theater who did not get it, and were willing to have it explained to them - I see that a lot. However, those who I expected to keep up seem to have not met the challenge.
I understand many consider the lower box sales to be an indication of his personal issues, but I wonder if it is just that his audience has not been able to follow the genius of his recent flicks?

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


SPOILER ALERT

POST CONTAINS SPOILER DISCUSSION


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline myself, but that moment on the bridge was a crucial moment.

JSF's opinions notwithstanding.............

To me the bridge scene was saying to us and to Cage - the battle at the beach was lost and now the aliens were IN London. The look on his face was "Shit, this is serious. I gotta do something NOW!" Then he resets. If I remember it correctly, it is then that he gets his game face on and bares down on his training that even Rita looks at him and says "Wow, look at him go." There is a great sequence where he's so focused that he destroys all the practice robots with such ease and assuredness.

The Bridge Scene (as I call it) was when he sees "this is it," as I stated above, but yeah it's been establish by brilliant writing.
But what Cage realizes is that the aliens must have won at the beach because here they are in London. it's like the final chess piece.

The Rita/Helicopter Death scene: Again the writing. It is here where we come to see just how much Cage cares for Rita. In an attempt to save her, he withholds the keys to the copter. With all his fussing over her, she figures it out. He's trying to hard to have her stay there, because he knows she dies and he can't stop or change it. It here where I think he decides, "I'm not going to find her and go it alone."

And........The attack on London and the middle-name helicopter death of Rita are what turned him around internally, because he has that connection to her and something to fight for.

Agreed. It is that connection that drives him, and so he goes out to reset the day, to save the women he loves.

SGG


Either I am missing your logic our you are missing mine.
Do you agree that 1. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER the helicopter scene?
That 2. London and Bridge scenes occur WITHOUT Rita?
That 3. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER he had already decided to not meet Rita and advance to that point without her?
That 4. London and Bridge scenes did not have Rita included in those reboots, she was not there, she could not "see the look on his face" or "see how he goes' or whatever?

I don't understand how you think the scene in London or Bridge could trigger him to not meet with Rita, when he is already without Rita in those scenes (and she did not die in those reboots, he would not continue if she had died). I don't currently understand why you would think those scenes would spur him to buckle down and take things seriously, when he had already passed that stage long before.

And, again, can you explain what you meant about your question about the helicopter scene?

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Tuesday, July 22, 2014 8:24 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT

POST CONTAINS SPOILER DISCUSSION

And, again, can you explain what you meant about your question about the helicopter scene?



I'm curious too. I have no idea what you're talking about JSF LOL!

But surely you must recall that immediately after the Bridge scene is when Rita walks into the training hall to find Cage kicking ass. The man has suddenly become determined. After that he finally finds a way to get them off the beach. And then helicopter, and then *love*, and then he goes it alone.

(Though: when he goes it alone, did he let her die on the beach? Kind of ruins all the romance angles of the story if he did. So did he save her first? It would fit the arc much better if he did something like downing her transport in the Channel to keep her alive until he killed the Omega he thought he'd find in the dam. Otherwise, what's the point of going it alone? With her dead on the beach as she was the first several times around?

Plot hole there!)

And hey, JSF - how about you acknowledge being dense about how her reaction to meeting Cage in the last time loop MUST be the same as it always was, when even in the movie it is not...? Did you catch that?

Not good at admitting you're wrong, huh? Not good at admitting that you didn't actually read my posts to understand what I was saying?

/I do love getting hostile over meaningless interpretations of silly sci-fi movies, but only because JSF is so consistently hostile and it's satisfying to prove him/her wrong... that's what the internet is for.


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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT

POST CONTAINS SPOILER DISCUSSION




her reaction to meeting Cage in the last time loop MUST be the same as it always was, when even in the movie it is not...? Did you catch that?


You mean, solely because of his different rank/position? Is that what you mean?
Quote:


Not good at admitting you're wrong, huh? Not good at admitting that you didn't actually read my posts to understand what I was saying?


I read them. There was a reason I didn't waste more time responding again.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT

POST CONTAINS SPOILER DISCUSSION


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline myself, but that moment on the bridge was a crucial moment.

SGG


Either I am missing your logic our you are missing mine.
Do you agree that 1. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER the helicopter scene?
That 2. London and Bridge scenes occur WITHOUT Rita?
That 3. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER he had already decided to not meet Rita and advance to that point without her?
That 4. London and Bridge scenes did not have Rita included in those reboots, she was not there, she could not "see the look on his face" or "see how he goes' or whatever?

I don't understand how you think the scene in London or Bridge could trigger him to not meet with Rita, when he is already without Rita in those scenes (and she did not die in those reboots, he would not continue if she had died). I don't currently understand why you would think those scenes would spur him to buckle down and take things seriously, when he had already passed that stage long before.

And, again, can you explain what you meant about your question about the helicopter scene?


Have I misunderstood "the Bridge scene" reference? Do you mean when he was on the bike and looks down from the bridge? Or something else?

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:38 PM

CAPTAIN_COOPER

...by my pretty dim sum bonnet, I will end you...


I've had to skip a whole bunch of posts here, because of spoilers -- I ain't complaining, it's my own gorram fault for not getting to the theaters yet! I loathe Tom Cruise, but I was sold on seeing this movie the moment I learned he dies in it -- over and over and over again. Yessirree Bob! I'll be happy to spend money to see that!

(Actually, I loved the trailers -- I wanna see the exo-suits in action! Just... gotta get to the theaters and do it! I **think** it's still showing at our local megaplex...)

Captain Bet Cooper,
Firefly Transport Jin Dui

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:45 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain_Cooper:
I've had to skip a whole bunch of posts here, because of spoilers -- I ain't complaining, it's my own gorram fault for not getting to the theaters yet! I loathe Tom Cruise, but I was sold on seeing this movie the moment I learned he dies in it -- over and over and over again. Yessirree Bob! I'll be happy to spend money to see that!

(Actually, I loved the trailers -- I wanna see the exo-suits in action! Just... gotta get to the theaters and do it! I **think** it's still showing at our local megaplex...)

Captain Bet Cooper,
Firefly Transport Jin Dui


LOL! I'm with you capt. Hate Tom. But couldn't say no to the previews. And I'm so glad I did go see it! It's a really good action-escapist sci-fi movie. Best of the year so far for me. (OK, but the year's not over...)

Now go see it so you can read the spoilers and join the debate!

And welcome! I think you're new right?


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Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:09 AM

CAPTAIN_COOPER

...by my pretty dim sum bonnet, I will end you...


Yup! I'm a noob here. Slowly but surely catching up on different conversation threads here -- my first lesson was to stay off the Real World Discussions section and my second is that WOW! Insane fandom history I am so so grateful to have missed out on! (I guess the upside for taking forever to dive into Firefly fandom is that I got to miss out on some of the doublepluscrazypants)

I've never understood why so many gals of my generation swoon over Tom Cruise. Just never got it. I will say, however, that I thought he was very, very good as the psycho killer in that Michael Mann film with Jamie Foxx. He wears them crazy-panties like a natural...

A question had been asked earlier about who would we have preferred to have seen cast in the lead role, instead of Tom Cruise? Bill Paxton would have been an interesting choice! Or Timothy Olyphant (of Deadwood & Justified fame). Or how about Anson Mount (the lead in AMC's Western series "Hell on Wheels")? Personally, I think just from what I've seen from the trailers, Anson Mount would have ROCKED that role! (Plus... he's a hottie!)

Captain Bet Cooper,
Firefly Transport Jin Dui

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Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:36 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain_Cooper:
Yup! I'm a noob here. Slowly but surely catching up on different conversation threads here -- my first lesson was to stay off the Real World Discussions section and my second is that WOW! Insane fandom history I am so so grateful to have missed out on! (I guess the upside for taking forever to dive into Firefly fandom is that I got to miss out on some of the doublepluscrazypants)

Yeah, it's ugly there. I've been mixing it up lately LOL! Took me a long time to get a thick skin for it, but I still need frequent breaks.

All the fandom stuff is indeed awesome. And necessary. It's heart breaking to get through the episodes and movie and realize that there is no more. Well, the comics, but that's not as satisfying. This site got me over the withdrawal LOL!

Quote:

I've never understood why so many gals of my generation swoon over Tom Cruise. Just never got it. I will say, however, that I thought he was very, very good as the psycho killer in that Michael Mann film with Jamie Foxx. He wears them crazy-panties like a natural...
Haven't seen it. Generally, I avoid TC movies.

I love Olyphant. Sexy guy! Haven't heard of Hell on Wheels. Good?



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain_Cooper:
I've never understood why so many gals of my generation swoon over Tom Cruise. Just never got it. I will say, however, that I thought he was very, very good as the psycho killer in that Michael Mann film with Jamie Foxx.


Collateral? It didn't stand out for me.
Quote:


A question had been asked earlier about who would we have preferred to have seen cast in the lead role, instead of Tom Cruise? Bill Paxton would have been an interesting choice! Or Timothy Olyphant (of Deadwood & Justified fame). Or how about Anson Mount (the lead in AMC's Western series "Hell on Wheels")? Personally, I think just from what I've seen from the trailers, Anson Mount would have ROCKED that role! (Plus... he's a hottie!)

Captain Bet Cooper,
Firefly Transport Jin Dui


Potsie?

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Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:21 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Potsie?


How do you get to Potsie (Anson Williams) from Anson Mount? The latter was just one year old when Happy Days premiered.



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Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:56 PM

CAPTAIN_COOPER

...by my pretty dim sum bonnet, I will end you...


In answer to the question regarding Hell on Wheels: YES! Very good! (Plus... I have a sneaky suspicion the central character is Mal Reynolds great-greatisty-great grandpappy, centuries on down the line... watch a few episodes and let me know if you agree!)

The series is on Netflix now -- at first, I thought it was a Deadwood-wanna-be (and I will always mourn the loss of HBO's Deadwood, almost as much as Firefly), but HoW has gotten increasingly stronger season by season.



Captain Bet Cooper,
Firefly Transport Jin Dui

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Friday, July 25, 2014 3:43 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Agreed! Well crafted at every turn, and Emily Blunt was made for this part.

SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Great flick. Saw it a few nights ago. Well made, a clever script, and really well staged action. Way better than most anything in theatres right now.



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov


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Friday, July 25, 2014 4:24 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


"Have I misunderstood "the Bridge scene" reference? Do you mean when he was on the bike and looks down from the bridge? Or something else?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, that's the scene I was referring to. He's on his bike and looks down from the bridge.

And, just so you know, I will answer your questions in due time. I have a lot on my plate just now.

(To be continued.........)


SGG

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Friday, July 25, 2014 5:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Potsie?


How do you get to Potsie (Anson Williams) from Anson Mount? The latter was just one year old when Happy Days premiered.


Faulty recall. Plus have not seen the referenced performances. My lack of cable disrupts my flow of relevant data.

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Friday, July 25, 2014 6:26 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain_Cooper:
In answer to the question regarding Hell on Wheels: YES! Very good! (Plus... I have a sneaky suspicion the central character is Mal Reynolds great-greatisty-great grandpappy, centuries on down the line... watch a few episodes and let me know if you agree!)

The series is on Netflix now -- at first, I thought it was a Deadwood-wanna-be (and I will always mourn the loss of HBO's Deadwood, almost as much as Firefly), but HoW has gotten increasingly stronger season by season.



Captain Bet Cooper,
Firefly Transport Jin Dui

I loved deadwood! I think it wasn't so good by season 3, but I did so want to know where it was going to go from there.

I will check out hell on wheels as soon as I get a chance. It sounds like we have similar taste. In tv and in men lol!


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http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
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Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:04 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Ok, I'm going to answer again about the Helicopter scene at the end of the movie. The reset:

When I originally saw the film I didn't realize that, once he beat the Omega that everything was as it was prior to the invasion of the aliens.

Regarding the POV at the END of the movie:

In terms of the ending, I thought it would have more impact at the end showing her point of view; meaning meeting Cage for the first time. Then cutting to him smiling at Rita (please know that I note this as a minor quibble on my part).

I'm speaking strictly in terms of camera angle and set up. Nothing more. The POV as she/audience sees it on screen.

The way it shot was from his POV. It was a small choice that I thought would improve the scene and overall ending, as I had said that I was slightly disappointed with the ending.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT

POST CONTAINS SPOILER DISCUSSION


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline myself, but that moment on the bridge was a crucial moment.

JSF's opinions notwithstanding.............

To me the bridge scene was saying to us and to Cage - the battle at the beach was lost and now the aliens were IN London. The look on his face was "Shit, this is serious. I gotta do something NOW!" Then he resets. If I remember it correctly, it is then that he gets his game face on and bares down on his training that even Rita looks at him and says "Wow, look at him go." There is a great sequence where he's so focused that he destroys all the practice robots with such ease and assuredness.

The Bridge Scene (as I call it) was when he sees "this is it," as I stated above, but yeah it's been establish by brilliant writing.
But what Cage realizes is that the aliens must have won at the beach because here they are in London. it's like the final chess piece.

The Rita/Helicopter Death scene: Again the writing. It is here where we come to see just how much Cage cares for Rita. In an attempt to save her, he withholds the keys to the copter. With all his fussing over her, she figures it out. He's trying to hard to have her stay there, because he knows she dies and he can't stop or change it. It here where I think he decides, "I'm not going to find her and go it alone."

And........The attack on London and the middle-name helicopter death of Rita are what turned him around internally, because he has that connection to her and something to fight for.

Agreed. It is that connection that drives him, and so he goes out to reset the day, to save the women he loves.

SGG


Either I am missing your logic our you are missing mine.
Do you agree that 1. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER the helicopter scene?
That 2. London and Bridge scenes occur WITHOUT Rita?
That 3. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER he had already decided to not meet Rita and advance to that point without her?
That 4. London and Bridge scenes did not have Rita included in those reboots, she was not there, she could not "see the look on his face" or "see how he goes' or whatever?

I don't understand how you think the scene in London or Bridge could trigger him to not meet with Rita, when he is already without Rita in those scenes (and she did not die in those reboots, he would not continue if she had died). I don't currently understand why you would think those scenes would spur him to buckle down and take things seriously, when he had already passed that stage long before.

And, again, can you explain what you meant about your question about the helicopter scene?


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Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


SPOILER ALERT


SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST




Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Ok, I'm going to answer again about the Helicopter scene at the end of the movie. The reset:

When I originally saw the film I didn't realize that, once he beat the Omega that everything was as it was prior to the invasion of the aliens.


OK, so you were referring to the transport helicopter scene where he wakes up in the chopper, before meeting Rita, right? Not the Rita/helicopter/death scene, right?
Quote:


Regarding the POV at the END of the movie:

In terms of the ending, I thought it would have more impact at the end showing her point of view; meaning meeting Cage for the first time. Then cutting to him smiling at Rita (please know that I note this as a minor quibble on my part).

SGG


Understood. Now, I mean.
Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT

POST CONTAINS SPOILER DISCUSSION


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline myself, but that moment on the bridge was a crucial moment.

JSF's opinions notwithstanding.............

The Rita/Helicopter Death scene: Again the writing. It is here where we come to see just how much Cage cares for Rita. In an attempt to save her, he withholds the keys to the copter. With all his fussing over her, she figures it out. He's trying to hard to have her stay there, because he knows she dies and he can't stop or change it. It here where I think he decides, "I'm not going to find her and go it alone."

And........The attack on London and the middle-name helicopter death of Rita are what turned him around internally, because he has that connection to her and something to fight for.

Agreed. It is that connection that drives him, and so he goes out to reset the day, to save the women he loves.

SGG


Either I am missing your logic our you are missing mine.
Do you agree that 1. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER the helicopter scene?
That 2. London and Bridge scenes occur WITHOUT Rita?
That 3. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER he had already decided to not meet Rita and advance to that point without her?
That 4. London and Bridge scenes did not have Rita included in those reboots, she was not there, she could not "see the look on his face" or "see how he goes' or whatever?

I don't understand how you think the scene in London or Bridge could trigger him to not meet with Rita, when he is already without Rita in those scenes (and she did not die in those reboots, he would not continue if she had died). I don't currently understand why you would think those scenes would spur him to buckle down and take things seriously, when he had already passed that stage long before.

And, again, can you explain what you meant about your question about the helicopter scene?



Thanks for the explanations, now those items make sense.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Thanks for the explanations, now those items make sense.

There is an explanation of WHY THE EDGE OF TOMORROW ENDING IS GREAT http://badassdigest.com/2014/06/26/film-crit-hulk-smash-why-the-edge-o
f-tomorrow-ending-is-great
/
Quote:

Edge of Tomorrow might be one of Hulk's favorite summer movies in years. Really. Perhaps Hulk has just been hungry for movies that actually understand the capacity for scene transitions. Or stories that propel you forward with rapid, acute development. Or stories that care very little for overt and unnecessary adherence to the 3-act structure and instead focus on getting us through each scene with a real sense of purpose for both emotion and plot. Or best of all, movies that can imbue character development into the proceedings with trust in an audience to get the suggestions (seriously, the evolution of the helicopter scene did 13 scenes worth of story in one). All of which means Hulk left Edge of Tomorrow fully sated to the point of adoration.




The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, August 1, 2014 1:05 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


You know something JSF, we may not agree on many things, but anyone who gets into movies to this extent gets my attention and a little respect - at least when it comes to movies.

As you can tell, it is my passion. For me it's the whole package, the storytelling, the visuals or cinematography, direction and acting. So, suffice it to say that I'll be getting the DVD package with all the trimmings. This was a well structured film, despite my little picadillos.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT


SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST




Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Ok, I'm going to answer again about the Helicopter scene at the end of the movie. The reset:

When I originally saw the film I didn't realize that, once he beat the Omega that everything was as it was prior to the invasion of the aliens.


OK, so you were referring to the transport helicopter scene where he wakes up in the chopper, before meeting Rita, right? Not the Rita/helicopter/death scene, right?
Quote:


Regarding the POV at the END of the movie:

In terms of the ending, I thought it would have more impact at the end showing her point of view; meaning meeting Cage for the first time. Then cutting to him smiling at Rita (please know that I note this as a minor quibble on my part).

SGG


Understood. Now, I mean.
Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT

POST CONTAINS SPOILER DISCUSSION


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline myself, but that moment on the bridge was a crucial moment.

JSF's opinions notwithstanding.............

The Rita/Helicopter Death scene: Again the writing. It is here where we come to see just how much Cage cares for Rita. In an attempt to save her, he withholds the keys to the copter. With all his fussing over her, she figures it out. He's trying to hard to have her stay there, because he knows she dies and he can't stop or change it. It here where I think he decides, "I'm not going to find her and go it alone."

And........The attack on London and the middle-name helicopter death of Rita are what turned him around internally, because he has that connection to her and something to fight for.

Agreed. It is that connection that drives him, and so he goes out to reset the day, to save the women he loves.

SGG


Either I am missing your logic our you are missing mine.
Do you agree that 1. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER the helicopter scene?
That 2. London and Bridge scenes occur WITHOUT Rita?
That 3. London and Bridge scenes occur AFTER he had already decided to not meet Rita and advance to that point without her?
That 4. London and Bridge scenes did not have Rita included in those reboots, she was not there, she could not "see the look on his face" or "see how he goes' or whatever?

I don't understand how you think the scene in London or Bridge could trigger him to not meet with Rita, when he is already without Rita in those scenes (and she did not die in those reboots, he would not continue if she had died). I don't currently understand why you would think those scenes would spur him to buckle down and take things seriously, when he had already passed that stage long before.

And, again, can you explain what you meant about your question about the helicopter scene?



Thanks for the explanations, now those items make sense.


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Friday, August 1, 2014 5:08 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
You know something JSF, we may not agree on many things, but anyone who gets into movies to this extent gets my attention and a little respect - at least when it comes to movies.

As you can tell, it is my passion. For me it's the whole package, the storytelling, the visuals or cinematography, direction and acting. So, suffice it to say that I'll be getting the DVD package with all the trimmings. This was a well structured film, despite my little picadillos.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT


SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST





Thanks for the explanations, now those items make sense.



I have not been able to find it showing in any of the budget theaters, not in weeks.
So, when you get it, are you going to have a few repeat loops of "no helmet, it gets in the way" scene? Or do you have a different scene you are more likely to repeat on?
I hope you enjoy it, and I hope I have not ruined your experience of it for you.
Did you also participate in the Inception discussion thread?

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Friday, August 1, 2014 5:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Just found it showing at my local budget theater, so I can check it out some more this week. Sweet.

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Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:38 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Enjoy...........


SGG

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Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:52 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


One of my favorite scenes is when Cage meets the professor, and, after having explained it all to him at first blush, Cage says to "Nice presentation" - I laughed so hard I nearly spit on the guy in front of me in the theater.

And no, you have not ruined it for me. On the contrary, the "discussion" made me appreciate it more, both you and Mal4Prez. Just because we disagree
doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it.

I may have made some comments on Inception, although, I don't remember exactly. Really good movie, maybe even great..........although I've seen it several times, I always catch something new or a different perspective. One thing I can't complain about is that brilliant ending.

Have you seen Cloud Atlas? If not, please do. It is an experience, but I warn you to give it time to wash over you. I grew to love it more each time I've seen it (about 6 times now).


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
You know something JSF, we may not agree on many things, but anyone who gets into movies to this extent gets my attention and a little respect - at least when it comes to movies.

As you can tell, it is my passion. For me it's the whole package, the storytelling, the visuals or cinematography, direction and acting. So, suffice it to say that I'll be getting the DVD package with all the trimmings. This was a well structured film, despite my little picadillos.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT


SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST





Thanks for the explanations, now those items make sense.



I have not been able to find it showing in any of the budget theaters, not in weeks.
So, when you get it, are you going to have a few repeat loops of "no helmet, it gets in the way" scene? Or do you have a different scene you are more likely to repeat on?
I hope you enjoy it, and I hope I have not ruined your experience of it for you.
Did you also participate in the Inception discussion thread?


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Monday, August 4, 2014 5:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
One of my favorite scenes is when Cage meets the professor, and, after having explained it all to him at first blush, Cage says to "Nice presentation" - I laughed so hard I nearly spit on the guy in front of me in the theater.

And no, you have not ruined it for me. On the contrary, the "discussion" made me appreciate it more, both you and Mal4Prez. Just because we disagree
doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it.

I may have made some comments on Inception, although, I don't remember exactly. Really good movie, maybe even great..........although I've seen it several times, I always catch something new or a different perspective. One thing I can't complain about is that brilliant ending.

Have you seen Cloud Atlas? If not, please do. It is an experience, but I warn you to give it time to wash over you. I grew to love it more each time I've seen it (about 6 times now).


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
You know something JSF, we may not agree on many things, but anyone who gets into movies to this extent gets my attention and a little respect - at least when it comes to movies.

As you can tell, it is my passion. For me it's the whole package, the storytelling, the visuals or cinematography, direction and acting. So, suffice it to say that I'll be getting the DVD package with all the trimmings. This was a well structured film, despite my little picadillos.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
SPOILER ALERT


SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST





Thanks for the explanations, now those items make sense.



I have not been able to find it showing in any of the budget theaters, not in weeks.
So, when you get it, are you going to have a few repeat loops of "no helmet, it gets in the way" scene? Or do you have a different scene you are more likely to repeat on?
I hope you enjoy it, and I hope I have not ruined your experience of it for you.
Did you also participate in the Inception discussion thread?



Watched Cloud Atlas, expected to enjoy it. Saw it a second time, because i couldn't remember seeing it the first time, the experience was so detached from what I had hoped. Neither time sank in, sorry.

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