GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

If Joss brought back Firefly in 2013....

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Friday, September 9, 2011 14:54
SHORT URL: http://bit.ly/qvtzpq
VIEWED: 15166
PAGE 1 of 2

Sunday, August 7, 2011 8:28 AM

OPPYH


If Sy-Fy had new episodes of Firefly to air in 2013, would you just go nuts or what? SPECULATIVE: Fresh off the huge success of 'The Avengers' Joss decides to focus once again on our Big Damn Heroes. Sy-Fy greenlights the new series for 15 episodes, and although 90% of the original crew come back for the new incarnation, new characters are introduced in the very first episode.

I would tell all my friends(Like I did with the last freaking series) and this time they would watch it first run, or else.
I would record every episode.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, August 7, 2011 9:05 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I'll watch anything Joss does, with highest priority to anything having to do with the Firefly Verse. However, let's push for HBO, not SyFy, please.



NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, August 7, 2011 10:00 AM

BYTEMITE


Eh, I dunno, HBO likes to tart things up a little too much for my tastes. Instead of a focus on the family feel with adventure serial caper elements, we'd get less jokes, more blood. Also, I've barely been able to get past the sex scenes in the TV-14 series, on HBO the executives would be pushing for full frontal.

Even the movie wasn't so much "darker and edgier" that you couldn't recognize it for the series, but an HBO series would be.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, August 7, 2011 10:26 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
I'll watch anything Joss does, with highest priority to anything having to do with the Firefly Verse. However, let's push for HBO, not SyFy, please.





I don't know SyFy, did a hell of a job with Battlestar Galactica. Just because they a crappy network in general, their Friday night line ups have always been pretty solid.
HBO just doesn't seem a proper fit.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, August 7, 2011 4:27 PM

DMI

Expired, forgotten, spoiled rotten.


I wouldn't care if new Firefly was on the food network.

-----------------------------
I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, August 7, 2011 4:56 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I agree with Byte, too much explicit rutting on HBO for me.
I'd prefer a spinoff series with new charactors because I'm paranoid about Joss messing up our BDHs. But with new charactors I wouldn't be worried about that as much.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:11 PM

MOOSE


If it was on a cable/satellite channel, I would miss it until the dvds came out.


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
...their (SyFy) Friday night line ups have always been pretty solid.




Isn't their current Friday line up Pro-wrestling?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 1:05 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I wasn't thinking "explicit sex" when I mentioned HBO, only that Joss would probably be allowed more freedom for the stories he wanted to tell. I agree that HBO, and STARZ, and sometimes Showtime, do go a bit overboard with nudity and adult themes, but is it really the network or the creators/producers that are responsible for that? Maybe they went to HBO because they knew they would be given the freedom to be as explicit as they wanted. It doesn't necessarily mean every show on pay cable has to be that way.



NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 3:08 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Yes. Even if he continued the story with the muppets.


Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 3:14 AM

VERASAMUELS


Yes, please!

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 4:09 AM

BRUCEPLUTO


I’d be there in a heartbeat!

Of course I wouldn’t want substitutes for any of the characters. Either the actors that started the characters get back onboard or that individual is written out of the show (Joss can do it). It might be painful at first, like cutting off a testicle but I’d get use to the idea. Still new characters could be written in. Still like to see Badger and Saffron and even Niska make guest appearances( love those guys) I’m willing to superglue my tv knob so that it couldn’t be turned from the station.

Also I’m putting up a new fan-fic shortly that allows the characters of Ron Glass and Alan Tudyk to reappear after what happened to them in the BDM (Damn you Joss, Damn you all to hell!)

Sorry, lost my focus a moment…..anyway check it out. It’s titled “Cowboys & Alliance” and yes I’ve taken liberties to pun the title.

See ya, BPZ

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 4:28 AM

ZEEK


I'd be excited and worried all at the same time. I guess Dollhouse has me worried that Joss has lost his touch. Maybe he'd go back to Firefly and wouldn't be able to conjure up the same magic. I don't think any new episode could live up to that much hype. Pretty sure it would feel disappointing at first.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 4:54 AM

BYTEMITE


Dollhouse was more of an issue with the limitations of the central premise and executive meddling than it was bad writing.

And it did pick up once the myth arc picked up and central characters started to develop personality, which should have happened a lot earlier. But tv networks like their filler episodes.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 6:27 AM

GWEK


Apologies for the digression but...

I respectfully disagree re: DOLLHOUSE. At least in part. I agree that a huge part of the problem WAS the limitation of the central premise, but since Joss designed that central premise, he doesn't get off the hook. Joss should have known better. DOLLHOUSE would probably have made in interesting book. But TV series? Mediocre at best.

I think another problem was where DOLLHOUSE fell in Joss's history. This was his return to TV after he had seen his beloved FIREFLY killed. TWICE. And after he had sat around and eaten bon-bons and watched too much BATTELSTAR GALACTICA for too many years. (Honestly, I know that Joss loves BSG, and I know that a lot of you guys do, too, but it's soo unrelentingly grim and un-fun that I think Joss watched so much that it killed his sense of comedic timing for a while. Anyway...).

I have likened BUFFY (and by extension ANGEL) to Joss's first love in the past, and FIREFLY is clearly is true love/soulmate. DOLLHOUSE was his tentative attempt to get back in the dating pool after his true love/soulmate was murdered. Of COURSE it was a wreck.

Y'all can blame the executives and their "meddling" and love of "episodic television" (Huh. What a surprise, that executives in the episodic television industry would want episodes!), but I think it's a mistake to let Joss get away clean.

On the upside, he seems to be in a better place these days... so, here's to the future!



www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 6:41 AM

BYTEMITE


Eh, Joss did Dr. Horrible before Dollhouse, which, ending aside, had a lot of funny parts, so I don't think that was the problem.

As for the central premise of Dollhouse, you know, sometimes an artist makes something that doesn't look so good. Maybe they got the proportions wrong, maybe they made the composition just way too cluttered, or simple. But even in a piece that isn't their best, you can still see elements that suggest their skill as an artist. Like maybe it still has some good shading technique, or wow, look at the detail work on the oil painted velvet and embroidery.

Dollhouse is like that but for writing. If you look at the components of what Joss wrote, there's still good stuff in there, and he's still a good writer. There's character development, some of it good and not out of nowhere, there's humour, with Victor and Sierra there's a bit of the heartwarming and the horrific tragic backstory.

It's not letting Joss get away with anything to be objective. It's easy to look at the whole of something and say, "well, this sucks" for one or two problems. Harder to dig a little deeper and ask what works and what doesn't.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 6:49 AM

BYTEMITE


For example, some people really hate that Firefly has so much overt Western themes in it. That's part of the central premise, they'd say Joss made a mistake. But there's good stuff in Firefly, right?

So maybe Firefly fans look at Dollhouse, expecting some of the warmth in Buffy and Dollhouse, and we don't find it right away. That's a mistake, we say, and maybe it is, because Dollhouse had trouble appealing to both Joss' established fanbase, and also to the mainstream.

But maybe he also had his reasons for writing it that way. And that's something I care about almost as much as execution, so long as the choices made for the art have a meaning.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 8:12 AM

GWEK


I sort of think you have to put DOCTOR HORRIBLE on the side of the timeline, because it came about in a completely different way. DOCTOR HORRIBLE was basically a vanity project that he did with a bunch of his buddies. I was a HOBBY project. It just happened to be successful and pretty awesome.

BUFFY, ANGEL, FIREFLY, DOLLHOUSE, AVENGERS... those are WORK projects. Different mindset.

In any event, now, don't get me, I'm not saying Joss is a bad writer. But DOLLHOUSE was a TERRIBLE concept from almost every writing angle. Sure, the episodes were better with Joss at the helm than they would have been with someone else, but they were still crap, and Joss ignored not one but MULTIPLE key writing rules:

1) Sympathetic characters (largely missing from DOLLHOUSE, especially the early episodes)

2) Compelling emotional journey (DOLLHOUSE has some interesting stuff, but much of it is intellectual, if not downright philosophical... and that makes for weak tea for a TV or movie)

3) External conflict that can be demonstrated visually and dramatically (Again, virtually absent, especially from the first half of Season One)

I reiterate: the premise would probably have made an interesting book, but a TV show centering around the philosophical issues of identity and humanity, featuring a cast of largely unsympathetic characters paired with a group of non-characters who are plot devices (the dolls themselves), involved in a conflict that is often internal and doesn't really get rolling until late in season one is, frankly, a crap premise.

I agree with you that it would be a mistake for people to dismiss FIREFLY because they didn't like the Western overtones (or, for that matter, dismiss BUFFY because they could take the idea seriously), but in FIREFLY and BUFFY (and even ANGEL), Joss gave us a sympathetic cast of characters we could bond with, and sent them on a heart-wrenching journey of discovery fraught with both external and internal conflict (with the internal often MIRRORED in the external--and that is the true brilliance of BtVS especially).

DOLLHOUSE? Failure on almost every key element.

When I say it failed, I don't mean that it failed because the idea of the Dollhouse wasn't interesting. It failed because the CHARACTERS weren't sympathetic/empathetic. The CONFLICT wasn't interesting. (In both cases, these started to change late in season one, and definitely in season two... but that's too late. If you're show isn't good by, say, the third or fourth episode, you've lost most of your audience and you're not getting them back).

You can take the biggest load of crap on television, but if people care about the characters and the journey, people will tune in.

As the writer and creator, Joss--and not any meddling executives--failed to do that.



www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 8:15 AM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?


well, by 2013 the Castle series run should be over and Nathan may be looking for work again.

I hate to think I have to wait that long but if it does come about, there ought to be a sea of fans standing at the gates during the contract signing letting whatever silly execs understand that if they screw with Joss on this go-round that somebody is gonna get their Big damn Azzes kicked.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 8:30 AM

BYTEMITE


I don't disagree with the assessment that the characters started out unsympathetic, and that it lacked external conflict early on, but I guess perhaps I don't see those as deal breakers.

It was a difficult premise, and maybe even a bad premise, but I disagree that it failed in EVERY way.

Often times a character will start out as unsympathetic and GAIN sympathy. That's not a sign of bad writing. Choosing to make the whole cast unsympathetic at first is risky ground, but it's actually been done successfully before, like in every crime drama show you might care to name.

As for the external conflict thing, I'd argue that the filler episode problem was the major cause of the external conflict not being introduced sooner (before your Four episode limit was up). I also think that if Joss's original pilot (Epitaph One) might have aired first, whatever flaws it might have had, it was a more intriguing basis for the plot of the show. We see the Apocalypse, and then we open the next few episodes and rest of the series showing how we might have gotten there.

Though to be fair to your argument, I seem to recall that Joss himself chose not to air Epitaph One at the last minute because he got nervous.

Anyway, I think there's been pages of this argument already, and this thread is about firefly, and I'm not looking to rain on anyone's speculative Firefly might come back parade.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 10:23 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:
BUFFY, ANGEL, FIREFLY, DOLLHOUSE, AVENGERS... those are WORK projects. Different mindset.



Don't forget Cabin in the Woods which has some decent press around it. I'm hopeful that it's going to be a pretty good movie.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 10:37 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
I'd be excited and worried all at the same time. I guess Dollhouse has me worried that Joss has lost his touch. Maybe he'd go back to Firefly and wouldn't be able to conjure up the same magic. I don't think any new episode could live up to that much hype. Pretty sure it would feel disappointing at first.



I doubt that very much. I would like to refer to a brilliant author-Robert E. Howard. He created Conan The Barbarian. He created a slew of other characters, and stories(most of them uninteresting) but whenever he wrote a Conan story, the character he was most passionate about it was quite amazing.

I have always felt Joss was most passionate about the Firefly verse(even more so than Buffy). Give him the opportunity to do more Firefly, and I think we would all be floored, and astonished.



----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 10:40 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:


Isn't their current Friday line up Pro-wrestling?


Unfortunately, yes.

This is why they need a strong series to give them some validity again. Firefly could do that.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 10:59 AM

GWEK


Sorry to continue to thread-jack. But not sorry enough to stop just yet... :)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I don't disagree with the assessment that the characters started out unsympathetic, and that it lacked external conflict early on, but I guess perhaps I don't see those as deal breakers.



I mean no offense here, but if you don't see those things as deal breakers, then I suspect you don't have an understanding of how screenwriting or the TV/movie industry works.

Quote:


It was a difficult premise, and maybe even a bad premise, but I disagree that it failed in EVERY way.



To be clear: I'm not saying that the entire 26 episode arc fails in every way, but in every SIGNIFICANT way, from a writing or commercial standpoint, the early episodes of DOLLHOUSE fail. If the show did not have Joss's name attached to it (and Dushku's might not have hurt), it would never have been renewed for a second season. Indeed, I suspect it would not have lasted past three to five episodes.

Quote:


Often times a character will start out as unsympathetic and GAIN sympathy. That's not a sign of bad writing.



I don't know how to say this without it coming of as inflammatory, but, I'm sorry, you're wrong on both counts.

Keep in mind that "sympathetic" doesn't necessarily mean "likeable." It means that the audience cares about the characters for some reason. (There are tons of "likeable" characters that are not in the least sympathetic). Common approaches to making a character sympathetic are to make them an underdog, make them an expert at something, make them funny, or show that other characters like or respect them.

Although characters may become more likeable or sympathetic as their story progresses (this is almost a given in a good story/character arc), if the audience is not invested in the story, they will not continue to watch the story. If your audience doesn't care about your characters, they don't want to go on the ride with you and your characters, and your story fails. (Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but not nearly as many as you would think).

Quote:


Choosing to make the whole cast unsympathetic at first is risky ground, but it's actually been done successfully before, like in every crime drama show you might care to name.



Again, false.

The crime procedural is a very specific animal, in which the details of the crime itself and the details of the crime and investigation take priority over the characters. However, that DOESN'T mean the characters are not sympathetic.

What does almost every successful procedural have in common from the first episode? The protagonists are experts, often quirky, who are fighting for a "noble cause" (they're cops, lawyers, or doctors). They may not be "fun" or "deep" characters initially, but they are certainly sympathetic characters because they are focused and skilled individuals demonstrating a level of expertise that most of us only wish we could have (in a positive, and noble field).

It is no surprise at all that the most successful procedurals center around quirky characters like Grissom and House. Not only do they have the respect of their peers and the audience (one point of sympathy) but they are entertaining to watch (another way for a character to be sympathetic).

DOLLHOUSE, on the other hand, started out featuring a cast that mixed non-characters (can you really say you "liked" or "respected" Echo or any of the other dolls early on? How? They didn't have personalities!) with a bunch of people involved in a reprehensible endeavor. It's true that Mal and his crew are equally criminal, but stealing gold coin from the Alliance is far more "victimless crime" than sending Echo out to be repeatedly raped.

Arguably, Ballard and maybe Boyd are the most sympathetic characters to start, except that Ballard is so very boring and Boyd is really just the best of the criminals. I mean, let's be honest, his job boils down to making sure that Echo doesn't get raped too hard.

Quote:


As for the external conflict thing, I'd argue that the filler episode problem was the major cause of the external conflict not being introduced sooner (before your Four episode limit was up). I also think that if Joss's original pilot (Epitaph One) might have aired first, whatever flaws it might have had, it was a more intriguing basis for the plot of the show. We see the Apocalypse, and then we open the next few episodes and rest of the series showing how we might have gotten there.



Now, see, Epitath One is an interesting case study, because it actually shows everything that's wrong with the rest of the series. In one episode, we get characters we can care about, fighting a fight we can care about.

Airing Epithath One first, however, would not have fixed the problem. I think it might have made it worse! We would have been introduced to a group of interesting characters for a single episode, then had them taken away and replaced by a much weaker cast of characters in a completely different situation. While the "mystery" of getting from Point A (the Dollhouse introduced in episode two) to Point B (the apocalypse of Epitath One) might make for an interesting intellectual exercise, it's not nearly visceral enough to carry a television audience.

Can you imagine the confusion (and anger!) of watching Epitath One, thinking it was good, telling your buddies to tune in for the next episode... only to find that they don't appear to have anything to do with each other?!?

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 10:59 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


I'm a fan of Firefly, much more then a fan of Joss. Unfortunately one of the things that made Firefly so good was the fact it was under the gun from day one. Joss had full run with the comics and I really don't care for them. I just don't see Joss bringing Firefly back under the gun like he was the first time around, but I think he needs that.

Plus you would have to have a lot of time that passed between the Movie and the new series. So much so it would change the whole dynamic of the show.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 11:27 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I mean no offense here, but if you don't see those things as deal breakers, then I suspect you don't have an understanding of how screenwriting or the TV/movie industry works.


Oh, of course you meant no offense.

Look, I may not be a good writer, and I'm definitely not a professional, nor am I in the show biz, I don't match up to your Still Flying series, but I do write. Your opinion is as valid as mine.

Quote:

but in every SIGNIFICANT way,


Disagree. For reasons I've already stated.

Quote:

I don't know how to say this without it coming of as inflammatory, but, I'm sorry, you're wrong on both counts.


Uh huh. And then you go on to elaborate on pretty much what I'm saying like it's a counter point?

Quote:

if the audience is not invested in the story, they will not continue to watch the story. If your audience doesn't care about your characters, they don't want to go on the ride with you and your characters, and your story fails.


Which is subjective. What were we talking about before? Oh, objectivity versus subjectivity? Gee.

Quote:

(Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but not nearly as many as you would think).


Self-contradiction!

Also there's a lot of examples of successful ones I can name. Quite a number are nineties anti-heroes, who are generally brooding sociopaths and not very likeable at all. Another example is potentially the Sopranos.

It's not about whether they're unlikeable to start with, as characters in Dollhouse may be considered to be, but whether they have a story arc that develops into sympathetic-if-not-likeable characters. Granted, this doesn't happen in four episodes, but when you start OUT completely unlikeable when does it ever?

Quote:

The crime procedural is a very specific animal, in which the details of the crime itself and the details of the crime and investigation take priority over the characters. However, that DOESN'T mean the characters are not sympathetic.



Read again. Did I say crime/police procedural?

Anyway. Mostly I just got pissed off because you got up on a high horse, I really have no interest in disrupting this thread further.

Now do you REALLY want to talk about Dollhouse, or do you want to imagine a nifty fantastic reboot of Firefly?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 11:55 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Hate to continue the thread jack, but you're wrong about "Epitaph One" being the intended pilot. That would be "Echo," which is only on the DVD set, never aired. "Epitaph One" was intended as an epilogue when Joss thought that would be the end of the line. I think he was as surprised as anyone when FOX renewed it.



NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 1:13 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'll bet I'd like Byte's story way better than your weird Still Flyin story from what I've heard of it.

Yeah I couldn't watch Dollhouse because they created these sweet touched folk and then put personalities on them so they could go get raped and then turned them back into touched folk, I couldn't handle that emotionally so I only saw a few episodes. Plus the only parts I enjoyed watching were the cute touched bits at the beginning and end, but seeing those only made me more upset that they were sending sweet touched folk out to be used for sex so I couldn't watch. I know that wasn't the main point of the story and I didn't mind having friends tell me what happened, but that thing was something I couldn't get past so I couldn't watch, made me upset.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 1:34 PM

BYTEMITE


>_>

I may have my personal disagreements with an author or even their story choices, but stories should be taken on their individual merits. Still Flying has its merits, and fans, and I won't detract from that. It is not an easy thing to face rejection and put writing out there for people to see. Worries about our stories are our biggest vulnerability. While I will engage in constructive criticism, when I'm arguing with someone I keep their stories off-limits, because it's easy to unintentionally hit someone where its tender and hurts the most. I will not chase off any muses.

I'll PM you about Dollhouse.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 8, 2011 5:48 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I just said that because I've heard some weird things about Still Flyin, from his/her own admission. I just thought you felt like s/he was being unfair so I couldnt' help it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 4:14 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
I'd be excited and worried all at the same time. I guess Dollhouse has me worried that Joss has lost his touch. Maybe he'd go back to Firefly and wouldn't be able to conjure up the same magic. I don't think any new episode could live up to that much hype. Pretty sure it would feel disappointing at first.



I doubt that very much. I would like to refer to a brilliant author-Robert E. Howard. He created Conan The Barbarian. He created a slew of other characters, and stories(most of them uninteresting) but whenever he wrote a Conan story, the character he was most passionate about it was quite amazing.

I have always felt Joss was most passionate about the Firefly verse(even more so than Buffy). Give him the opportunity to do more Firefly, and I think we would all be floored, and astonished.



Well the problem for me is that I've had so much time to watch and rewatch every episode. I've found all sorts of little things that make the episodes shine. A brand new episode in one viewing pretty much can't live up to that.

I know with the unaired episodes I saved them and rationed them out. I was disappointed by all of them. That is until I got over the fact that they didn't reveal anything new about the characters and rewatched them a bunch of times. Now I like them all just fine. I'm pretty sure any new episode would suffer the same fate.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 4:42 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


If one considers the acting career path of the original cast and not our own *selfish* desires, would we really wouldn't want them to return in a Firefly relaunch? It's a great fantasy for us, but if I were them I'd want the next acting challenge, onward and upward, not falling back on something I'd already done, no matter how great the memories were.
New stories, new cast - Joss can exec-Produce to insure his voice and guidance - for me it's time for some new, hungry group of talented writers and actors and technicians to show us what they can do in the 'Verse.
And I have no problem with HBO - the nudity is over much (did I just type that??), but they have a proven track record of high quality tv. And when was their last scifi series? Ever?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 6:40 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I was disappointed by all of them. That is until I got over the fact that they didn't reveal anything new about the characters and rewatched them a bunch of times. Now I like them all just fine. I'm pretty sure any new episode would suffer the same fate.


You mean on the first viewing? Because I think some of those provide a lot of character insights for Simon, Kaylee, Mal, Inara, and Book.

Not so much for Jayne, Zoe, Wash, or River though.

In any case, if there were new episodes, and some were weaker than others, I would agree that they would still find some fans and that they would probably at least be watchable.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 6:45 AM

BYTEMITE


Pizmo: they say they like Firefly too, so if they WANTED to do it, I don't think it'd be selfish of us to encourage it.

After all, maybe third time's the charm. Maybe it would be a breakout hit this time.

But, I wouldn't mind a complete reboot either, if it came to that.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 6:53 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

I was disappointed by all of them. That is until I got over the fact that they didn't reveal anything new about the characters and rewatched them a bunch of times. Now I like them all just fine. I'm pretty sure any new episode would suffer the same fate.


You mean on the first viewing? Because I think some of those provide a lot of character insights for Simon, Kaylee, Mal, Inara, and Book.

Not so much for Jayne, Zoe, Wash, or River though.

In any case, if there were new episodes, and some were weaker than others, I would agree that they would still find some fans and that they would probably at least be watchable.


Yeah first reaction after the episode ends type of thing. Which is what the internet would get flooded with after any new Firefly. I'm guessing the feeling would be along the lines of "nothing happened. that was lame". Let's face it that's kinda how most of the Firefly episodes were. It's just when something gets hyped and you don't get big plot advancement it kinda doesn't sit well.

That's why I think any new Firefly would probably come off as a disappointment initially. Which as we know can lead to near instant cancellation.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 6:59 AM

BYTEMITE


I see. :)

As for cancellation, maybe that's why Joss should put together his own studio and broadcast regular webisodes.

(Awesomeness can't be expressed verbally. Stand by for best-day-dream-ever mode)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 7:14 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Pizmo: they say they like Firefly too, so if they WANTED to do it, I don't think it'd be selfish of us to encourage it.



I don't think they could really say anything else in public, yanno? In a room full of Firefly fans or just to any reporter - it would get out - they aren't mean, they know the fan base lives for it. It would be dissing Joss too and they certainly don't want to do that, but "good for my career path?" Eh, I'm doubtful.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 8:49 AM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?


it's a show and a premise that deserves the oppty to try new media formats.

I would love to see some rendition of Firefly back on broadcast, but i'd be even more impressed if someone figured out how to do webisodes that somehow interacted with an online gaming verse...
perhaps the wedisodes would setup story lines for the next level of games that week or that month...you don't have the overhead of holding an entire series of cast on a productoin lot...you can have a wedisode where Jayne is the focus along with some unknown characters...a seperate scene set can be shot with Nathan and maybe Zoe...but then the balance of the webisode is Jayne and some bit actors and plenty of CGI....they set up a mission a planet or base station location in the verse and the games take it from there.

look, I love my firefly, but they've done the series now, they've done the movie...take it to the next level...somebody figure it out, get some money behind it, bring back some familiar faces and introduce fresh actors into it as well..most importantly...create a new genre

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 6:21 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'd prefer a spin off series in the verse but with a whole new crew, that way Joss et al can't mess up things for our BDHs and our rose tinted view of what we'd like them to be. Just my opinion.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 11:24 PM

VERASAMUELS


The only BDHs who have regular, solid weekly work at the moment are:-

Nathan in Castle.

Adam in Chuck.

Chuck will probably stop filming around November [ish] and be over unless there's an amazing miracle.

Castle has a full season. TPTB are unlikely to keep the 'will they won't they' going much longer. Unless there is some spectacularly clever writing, the show could be done at the end of next season.

So slating a 'start filming' for next year is a distinct possibility. They could even do episodes in which Mal is in prison/in hospital/lost/captured by hill folk/doing a mysterious side job until Nathan is able to join in full time.

Vera


Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 1:36 AM

BRUCEPLUTO


Having Joss start a new season of Firefly is so appealing to me. I pointed this thread out to my spouse the other day and she said she didn’t think it should happen. Not that she doesn’t love the show, she does, and she loves Nathan. Still she thinks she’d come away disappointed. Well, this is one area I have to disagree with her, and I don’t debate her often because usually she wins.

Anyway, to quote Jimmy Stewart in Shenandoah, “ If we don’t try, we don’t do, and if we don’t do, well we’ll never know how good it coulda been…..and I want my Firefly season 2!”

Maybe not an exact quote, but I think you see where I’m coming from. As long as Joss is involved in some way and keeps the production values to his standards I think we’ll be Ok. Even if a second season were to flop, what would we have. Well, we’d still have the best season 1 show of the greatest tv series ever to run. That one’s in the bag.

BPZ, We hold for more!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 3:34 AM

BYTEMITE


I think Morena and Alan might have work as well.

From what I've heard, Joss planned for Alan and Ron to somehow make some more appearances despite what happened to the characters. So that might also be a factor.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 3:37 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, BP, I'd agree with that. I mean, it's not like people don't already ignore the movie because it was so dark. Those same people could just ignore the second season if it went somewhere against their tastes.

Meanwhile, we could get some more Firefly.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 1:38 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I get what you're saying Bytemite. We were expecting an offshoot of Firefly or Buffy, but this was something totally different and we had to have faith in Joss that he would bring it around.

But only one thing wrong with that.......as usual........Fox execs. I'm in the "meddling" camp - too many cooks spoil the brew. It took time but Joss eventually delivered; unfortunately he lost all but the die hard fans by the time he started to really cook. Dollhouse was somewhat a success - he got a second season!

In this case, lightning didn't strike twice.

But I trust Joss will find his mojo real fast when it comes to continuing the Firefly saga. He was just warming up when Fox pulled the plug.
My vote is for HBO (for creative freedom), but for sheer numbers SyFy (standard cable as opposed to premium cable). Just saying.

Let us pray!


SGG

Tawabawho?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 1:46 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


I was a fan of Dollhouse - but I must admit it rarely felt like it had more than a season or two. It may well have worked better in fact as just a mini-series.


Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 4:18 PM

KRELLEK


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
If Sy-Fy had new episodes of Firefly to air in 2013, would you just go nuts or what? SPECULATIVE: Fresh off the huge success of 'The Avengers' Joss decides to focus once again on our Big Damn Heroes. Sy-Fy greenlights the new series for 15 episodes, and although 90% of the original crew come back for the new incarnation, new characters are introduced in the very first episode.

I would tell all my friends(Like I did with the last freaking series) and this time they would watch it first run, or else.
I would record every episode.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER




If it it´s true, and the same crew get back on serenity then that would be greath even through the might be a little older than they should be :-)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 10:12 PM

PEER


Im happy with whatever they give us: New relaunch, Old crew, new crew, movie, series... I still dont know why they were able to do so many Star Treks (Dont get me wrong, I love star Trek), but fans are hesitant about Firefly Spinoffs.

But I think it mainly hangs on Nathan, because Mal is the central character and he is the one representing the fribges, the universe so to speak. So I doubt anything will move before Castle is over.

BTW: Joss said he is greenlighted to advance the storylines in the comics at least. So he does think about "the future" and what happens after the movie. I can very well imagine he will advance the storyline in cool ways.

(And no matter whathe does there will be badmouthing and people being disappointed, thats how it is. Hopefully there would be more new fans too)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 10:34 PM

KRELLEK


i would really like to see River Tam back again, even through she might be slightly older :-) she was such and interesting characther

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 11, 2011 7:38 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I'd watch it, regardless of what network Joss got a deal with to air the show. Would I go nuts? Ruttin' right I would! I'd do the Dance of Joy until I passed out.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



X.O. / Battalion O.I.C.



http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

http://76thbattalion.proboards.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:55 PM

GREENKA61


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
I'll watch anything Joss does, with highest priority to anything having to do with the Firefly Verse. However, let's push for HBO, not SyFy, please.





I wouldn't care which network, just not FOX.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:29 PM

BACCHUS68


Quote:

Originally posted by greenka61:
Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
I'll watch anything Joss does, with highest priority to anything having to do with the Firefly Verse. However, let's push for HBO, not SyFy, please.





I wouldn't care which network, just not FOX.



I couldn't agree more. I think Joss made dollhouse as his most "mainstream" show and while it was interesting and great vehicle for eliza it wasn't pure Joss and eventually failed because it missed the elements of a joss created show and more like a lost or fringe show with less character development then I would have liked. I think in time Joss was making Dollhouse into something more Josslike but it was too late by then.

Just like in "ANgel" Joss started that show plan as a more episode of the weekly supernatural dectective show changing the format from season to season till it became a bigger "soaplike heavy character driven seasonwide event show" Joss doesn't do filler, he does big and angst and character development that makes characters change and grow and get messed with in profound rollercoaster ways that thrill you.

When Firefly comes back it needs to be unshakled from a network that wants filler episodes and an easy to jump in and out of series network. Syfy does screw up alot of series on a regular basis but it has no problem focusing on the long character/plot developement bend in its series like farscape,BSG.

I wish he would be completly seperated from fox production company period and working with syfy or any other network that would appreciate his talent more and let him create shows that he does best. even if they cancel the shows after a few seasons that network would at least create shows he likes to make and not some clone of some other mainstream garbage. Fox is what keeps Joss off of TV or kills a successfull Joss show IMHO.

Bac

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Batgirl Got Axed
Tue, August 16, 2022 19:08 - 7 posts
V for Vendetta review
Fri, August 12, 2022 12:42 - 55 posts
Brenda? Are You Watching FBI: Most Wanted?
Wed, August 10, 2022 05:06 - 137 posts
Testing.
Thu, August 4, 2022 11:07 - 51 posts
Would you still fly?
Tue, August 2, 2022 20:53 - 83 posts
Running of the Jaynes 2022. 3rd one! CSTS event. Between 7/10 and 7/24.
Thu, July 7, 2022 18:53 - 2 posts
Where are the Extraterrestrial Civilizations
Tue, July 5, 2022 20:54 - 43 posts
Anyone gotten to the end of season 3 of The Expanse?
Mon, June 13, 2022 11:53 - 32 posts
American Humor
Mon, June 13, 2022 11:22 - 9 posts
TV's Most Shocking Deaths
Sun, June 12, 2022 21:07 - 42 posts
We British need to clean ourselves. Reality TV is our fault.
Wed, June 8, 2022 11:41 - 15 posts
CSTS 2021 Redemption Art Contest winner! All 124 cities listed.
Sun, June 5, 2022 05:48 - 3 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL