GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

How do you search thread archives?

POSTED BY: INDIGOSTARBLASTER
UPDATED: Saturday, September 23, 2006 08:52
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VIEWED: 2643
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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:09 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


A while ago, someone on this site told me how to access Easter eggs for both Firefly and Serenity. I watched them, enjoyed them... and promptly forgot how to find them again.

I have this bright idea that I'll find out again and post instructions on the Wikipedia entries on Serenity and Firefly, but before I can do that, I have to figure out how to find the thread that told me in the first place...

Any help would be appreciated!

Indigo S.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:12 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Google it. I'd tell you, but I'm tired and can't sentence properly, nor can I remember the easter eggs off top of my head. But google is your friend.

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

The only real failure in life is not to be true to the best one knows. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:17 AM

EMBERS


yeah, pheonixrose is right..
the easiest way is to google "fireflyfans Easter eggs" if you include the fff name then it will give you the times that was mentioned here.


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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:20 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


Shiny. Thank you :)

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:24 AM

MAVOURNEEN


I can never remember exactly HOW to phrase the search parameters for google, so I just hit the "Advanced Search" option to the right of the bar, and then put my search words in the top where it says "all of the words" and "fireflyfans.net" under domain. That limits your search to this site.


"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:19 PM

UBERGEEK


some one really needs to sticky this.

the way you can search the site with google is:



Type in google search bar:

site:fireflyfans.net Your Seacrh Query Here

that will search ALL of FFF. every nook.

If you only want to search the forum:

site:fireflyfans.net/thread.asp Your Search Query Here

So what you would type in order to search the archives for the easter eggs is:

site:fireflyfans.net/thread.asp Easter Eggs

this wile return any result form the FFF forums containing the words Easter and the word egg(s)

if you want to search for the prase "easter eggs" type

site:fireflyfans.net/thread.asp "Easter Eggs"

hope that helps. I think I will make a thred dedicated to showing people how to search this site. there is too much confusion.

If you have any other questions just ask


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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:11 PM

SIGMANUNKI


http://www.fireflylabs.ca/misc/fffsearch.html

I submitted the above a little while ago for inclusion on this site. Hasn't happened, but I still have it up on my site.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:43 PM

UBERGEEK


The only problem is it still searches the enitre site. not just the fourms. In order to do just posts on these forums you would need to do:

fireflyfans.net/thread.asp Search Query

Im going to make a big tutoral for people that dont want to dig though search results when they know what they are looking for is in a certan section.

And as for what you have done, All FFF needs to do is copy and paste the HTML/Javascript. 3 miutes of work. Oh well, if you are using FIREFOX http://getfirefox.com <----- Which you SHOULD BE IF YOUR NOT!!!!! (You wont get virsus by *visiting* websites anymore, but if you download them and install them your self you will still get them) You can just press F6 which highlights the address bar, the type in the *word* google then add a space then your search query so in the end your address bar would look like this:

google site:fireflyfans.net I love Firefly

End the end I should just wright a PHP script that in which one could choose from a dropdown menu where they want to search and then their search query is sent to google with out people haveing to remember all the commands. But there is one problem with this. Firefly Fans runs on ASP which, i do not know.

Eventuly what I would like to do is *try* to get me and some other fans (preferably Web Desinger like myself) and redo this site or make a new site and have everyone transfer to the new one.

No Offence to the creator to this site but, Not only is this site ugly, but it has huge usablity issues (for example what this topic is about, the inablity to search, which is a basic function of any real fourm.)

uh, ya so rant over :(


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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:33 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Quote:

Originally posted by ubergeek:

Eventuly what I would like to do is *try* to get me and some other fans (preferably Web Desinger like myself) and redo this site or make a new site and have everyone transfer to the new one.

No Offence to the creator to this site but, Not only is this site ugly, but it has huge usablity issues (for example what this topic is about, the inablity to search, which is a basic function of any real fourm.)

uh, ya so rant over :(




Wow. How utterly innappropriate.
And you've been a member for a month.

Please, send me an email when your new site is up and running. I'll be sure to sign right up!

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:57 AM

WHOISRIVER


Quote:


No Offence to the creator to this site but, Not only is this site ugly, but it has huge usablity issues (for example what this topic is about, the inablity to search, which is a basic function of any real fourm.)



Uhm, it's also by far the largest Firefly website in existence, and has been running for nearly 5 years. At the end of the day, if you don't like it fair enough - but it's just your opinion that it's ugly etc. The evidence that a huge section of the Firefly community for 5 odd years has used this site tends to suggest people might not agree.

-g

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:26 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


I find this site beautiful and welcoming, myself, in the sense that it's the only one I've found so far where I've felt really comfortable coming in and having conversations with all you lovely folks (I'm pretty much a newbie for anything Internet-related, other than email), but it would be nice to have a search function on it.

In any case -- thank you, Haken, for creating and maintaining this site!

Indigo S.

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:28 AM

NOTMANDATORY


Quote:

Originally posted by ubergeek:

No Offence to the creator to this site but, Not only is this site ugly, but it has huge usablity issues (for example what this topic is about, the inablity to search, which is a basic function of any real fourm.)

uh, ya so rant over :(



I'm a newbie here- and popped in to learn the secrets of searching this site...what a bonus- I get to bask in the glow of your shiny goodness! Tell us, what's it like to have your sh*t not stink?

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:40 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by ubergeek:

And as for what you have done, All FFF needs to do is copy and paste the HTML/Javascript. 3 miutes of work.




No Javascript, it's just an HTML form.


Quote:

Originally posted by ubergeek:

End the end I should just wright a PHP script that in which one could choose from a dropdown menu where they want to search and then their search query is sent to google with out people haveing to remember all the commands.




Wholly overkill Batman! Why write a PHP script when instead of radio buttons, one could use a drop-down list (as you said) and send that directly to google? I'll see what I can do.

EDIT: I tried the dropdown thing and it worked... sorta.

http://fireflylabs.ca/misc/fffsearch2.html

1) When google comes up the extra options are not presented anymore.

2) When searching the BlueSun Room, the wallpapers are not included as they don't view off of sunroomitem.asp.

So, it partially works, but w/ problems.


Quote:

Originally posted by ubergeek:

But there is one problem with this. Firefly Fans runs on ASP which, i do not know.




This one irritates me as well. Otherwise, I would have asked Haken to be part of the team a couple years ago.

Not only does it use a M$ "language", but it runs on a high overhead OS, using a high overhead webserver, using a high overhead DB.

If I may be so bold to makes some suggestions:

Lighttpd was designed with the c10K problem in mind. So, it's very quick and can handle extremely high loads. Utilizing its fastcgi module with php, would result in a very quick site.

The DB engine should be MySQL for speed, or if data integrety is a large concern, PostgreSQL would be better. Also, far better backup managment should be implemented.

Changing to a low(er) overhead OS is also something that should be done, but not strictly necessary as the above tech runs on windows as well. Perhaps a *BSD or a distro of Linux? I'm partial to OpenBSD myself b/c of the security aspects.

That tech should result in a better experience for everyone.


Quote:

Originally posted by ubergeek:

Eventuly what I would like to do is *try* to get me and some other fans (preferably Web Desinger like myself) and redo this site or make a new site and have everyone transfer to the new one.




After the last little fiasco with this site, I was thinking of starting an open fireflyfans.net project to re-write the site. There are long standing bugs here that I've reported and have yet to be fixed (not to mention needed features). But, Haken hasn't gotten around to fix them for some reason (nor adding necessary features).

Unfortunately, it won't happen unless Haken wants it to happen. And if past behaviour is any clue, it won't. That's why I haven't tried.

Btw, I'm not a web designer, I'm a web programmer. So, if you do start something, I can handle the back-end stuff (or at least possibly manage the team, or be part of it, or... whatever).

But, I must say, that everyone here has become accustumed to this site and the way it works. So, my idea was to redo the backend of the site w/o touching the look and feel (and perhaps what should be done first). That being said, a proper design (templates) should allow the site to have a drop in replacement if wanted at any time in the future.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:44 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:

Wow. How utterly innappropriate.
And you've been a member for a month.

Please, send me an email when your new site is up and running. I'll be sure to sign right up!





1) the length of time someone has been a member has NOTHING to do with if there point is valid

2) (s)he was NOT talking about make another site, but redoing this one

3) ever notice how often this site is going down recently? think that might indicate that something needs to happen?

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:52 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by notmandatory:

I'm a newbie here- and popped in to learn the secrets of searching this site...what a bonus- I get to bask in the glow of your shiny goodness! Tell us, what's it like to have your sh*t not stink?




1) When I got here I found it difficult to navigate the site. And I'm a web developer, which indicates a problem as a work and play on the net.

2) This is an issue that regualarly comes up with new people. I know this b/c I've been here for over 2 years.


I'm not going to defend the way (s)he put it, BUT, the way (s)he put it, is not the point that (s)he was trying to get across. Furthermore, this person is basically offering to start a team to attempt to fix the problem(s) on this site. Which is something rare in any circle as people usually complain and do nothing, and offer to do nothing.


In all honesty, are we as a group becoming so elitist that suggests are taken as absolute hostility right off the hop without considering if they are valid or not?

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:56 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Sig-

In general, I would agree with your first point. Length of time does not dictate right or wrong. Did you read the post however? It was antagonistic, and a bit trollish, IMO.

I'm sorry. I don't think this site is ugly. Do you?

(S)he clearly stated redoing this site. Is (s)he Haken? Does (s)he own it?Don't think so.

Don't like this site? Go find another. It's a free country. I think fff.net is just fine. Quirky, to be sure. But, I sell furniture. I'm not a programmer.

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:10 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:

In general, I would agree with your first point. Length of time does not dictate right or wrong. Did you read the post however? It was antagonistic, and a bit trollish, IMO.




And asking if I had actually read the post isn't antagonistic? Personally I didn't find it so. But, that's an opinion thing now isn't it? So, do you think that I haven't read it just b/c I don't have your opinion of it?


Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:

I'm sorry. I don't think this site is ugly. Do you?




Again, this can be considered as you being antagonistic toward me! But, I won't consider it that way.

Personally, I think that the site is too "busy". A reorganization is probably in order, but in general the design isn't terribly flawed. Just some tweaking is in order.


Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:

(S)he clearly stated redoing this site. Is (s)he Haken? Does (s)he own it?Don't think so.




I know that (s)he is stated that (s)he wants to redo the entire site, BUT that doesn't mean that the project (if Haken agrees) couldn't be changed to just re-writing the site engine.

This would rather benifit you (and everyone) as users as those long standing bugs will go away

e.g. post a comment on someones blog and use a to see if you get a pic, or the printout of the image tag. I reported that one a couple years ago.

Furthermore, suggesting improvments to the site is hardly the sole domain of the owner. That's exactly what the FIREFLYFANS.NET Central section is for after all.


Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:

Don't like this site? Go find another.




I'm terribly sorry to say, but this is a very childish thing to say. Especially given the existence of the FIREFLYFANS.NET Central section.



----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:48 PM

UBERGEEK


Quote:

Eventuly what I would like to do is *try* to get me and some other fans (preferably Web Desinger like myself) and redo this site or make a new site and have everyone transfer to the new one.


ok lets set this straght:

1. I would be happy to work with people to fix issues with this site, or if the creator is unwilling, find a small team and create a new one.

2. I love this site, despite its quarks, for the people. The people make this site what it is. As with any other site. I like this site for many reasons. The fact that most people are like minded and when you have an *oppinion* (a freaking oppinion people) they wont flame you (well i guess that isnt true any more)

3. I may only be a member on this site for a Month. But does that mean that I cant read what is on this site before I signed up? Does that mean That im not a fan? Or I dont have a place to voice my oppionion? I certanly hope not.

As I said, the site has usibilty issues. That is the main reason I wated so long to sign up. I didnt want to deal with the way it worked.

Now, if no one wants to help me or thinks my Idea is stupid then the idea will die. Redoing/Makeing a new site of this size and calaber would take quite a while if one were to do it alone.

really, why flame me for an oppinion?


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Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:06 PM

UBERGEEK


@SigmaNunki:


acculy im a programmer too. I jsut dabble in design.

http://antims.com (*please* dont view in IE. it will not look right at all. Mainly because I use PNG's with transparncys and the site is much longer then it should be, for wich I have no clue as to why)

the only reason I would use PHP to provide the search querys is I would have more control over what you can search for and the pramaters. it would just be a simple swich that would change what would be but into a http header then rediret to google with the custom query in the ?q= part of the url.

The only real issues i have with this site is the lack of a search function and the link structure. The color scheme is not a problem. I have just been brainwashed to be minimalsit by all the "web 2.0" sites now.

Aslo so JS BB code buttons would be nice, so you dont have to type in the BB codes your self (think of a word processer).

I am only saying all this because a big scary site that people dont know how to use right off the bat by just looking at the site *generaly* *tend* to scare people away from it. (im not saying this about any current members of the site, cause this obvoulsy dosnt apply to you)

If we were to make a new site, I would just think to use somthing at lest like PHPBB (if not vBulleten or IPB) then do all the custom Fanfic, and gallaries our self.

I have even had the Idea to have a video gallary. (but the video be hosted on youtube to save bandwidth) Because all these great Trailors and Music videos that people have made need a home base where poeple can find them easer.

Again, I love this site, im just thoughing ideas on how to make the site i love better

btw im a he

edit:
SigmaNunki I just took a look at the root of your site. I am humbled by your programming. The extent of what I know is PHP (and not all that well, I guess you could call me an beginning-advanced PHP programmer (oxymoron? lol)). You sir(? appolgys if not) are a programmer.


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Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:05 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


I love this site, I have since the first moment I saw it.
I think the usability is pretty high; the layout is simple and it's easy for me to find what I need. The black background is easy on the eyes, too. And I am very familiar with google and have no problem using it. Also, before the site crashed, the archives could be viewed as one unending page and a simple 'edit, search' could find what you were looking for. I'm sure the archives will be back at some point, and like I said I have no problem using google.
Ok, so I'm fairly computer literate, but I'm certainly not the most computer literate person I know.
I'd like the site to not crash anymore, but really that's the only issue I have with it.

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

The only real failure in life is not to be true to the best one knows. - Gautama Siddharta

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:59 AM

WHOISRIVER


Quote:

I'm terribly sorry to say, but this is a very childish thing to say. Especially given the existence of the FIREFLYFANS.NET Central section.


Just to clarify, you don't think turning up, saying a site is crap, slagging off all the technology behind it and saying you want to run a project to take the site away from it's owner isn't a little bit creepy?

Here's a clue: it is. This site is owned and operated by Haken. It's his site. He wrote it all from scratch. He implemented, installed, maintains, owns and operates the server it uses. It's entirely custom. His design. He thought "M$" software was the best route.

And, to be honest, it's by far the longest running FFF site, it hasn't been hacked like half the other fan sites, and despite some stablility issues, it's still largely available and working a great many years later.

I'm no fan of Microsoft products. I run the official Universal Browncoat community (serenitymovie.com), and that's entirely PHP and MySQL based. I built it because I wanted a site with different features to here.

However, if Haken wants to maintain this place as his own, that's his call. If he wants to run an open project to open source the site, then great, but it needs taking up with him.

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:23 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Just to clarify, you don't think turning up, saying a site is crap, slagging off all the technology behind it and saying you want to run a project to take the site away from it's owner isn't a little bit creepy?

Here's a clue: it is. This site is owned and operated by Haken. It's his site. He wrote it all from scratch. He implemented, installed, maintains, owns and operates the server it uses. It's entirely custom. His design. He thought "M$" software was the best route.

And, to be honest, it's by far the longest running FFF site, it hasn't been hacked like half the other fan sites, and despite some stablility issues, it's still largely available and working a great many years later.

However, if Haken wants to maintain this place as his own, that's his call. If he wants to run an open project to open source the site, then great, but it needs taking up with him.



Thanks, Whoisriver. This is what I wanted to say, and how I should have said it. I shouldn't have been snarky, and have been thinking about this thread since last night.




"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:37 AM

EMBERS


thank you, WhoIsRiver, for an intelligent and adult response to this degeneratoring thread.

Personally I've never found this site to be all that hard to cope with, and I don't find it that 'busy'
this is home and I kind of resent new people coming in and being rude and then blaming the rest of us for resenting the rudeness.

Besides, I think this site is WAY easier than:
http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly/start
which was really the only other good site back a couple of years ago (I did join that one, in 12/6/2002...I didn't get around to joining here until March 24, 2004, but this one really was already my home).

Personally I'm very grateful to Haken for maintaining this site, and on those rare occassions when it is down I am bereft.


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Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:51 AM

UBERGEEK


So, appertly, you all think I hate the site and want to distory it. When if you accualy *read* my posts you would see that, im mearly giveing suggestions on how to make the site better.

and IT IS CLEARLY OBVIOUS THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE ALLREADY SIGNED UP ON THIS SITE CAN USE IT. Really, you dont need to go on about how well you can use this site and and how every other fan is exacly like you and knows how to use every site on the internet. Because, even though you may know how to use this site, others may not. Do you know how long it took me to figure out just how to go back to the Catigory above the thred I was in? (well i dont rember the time frame exacly but it was really annoying for a while going all the way back to the fourm home.)

I am not saying that this site sucks. Not one bit. Im not saying that I hate the site. Not one bit. I love this site. EVERY SINGLE WEBSITE IN EXISTANCE NEEDS IMPROVMENTS, Not just this one. so STOP TAKING WHAT IM SAYING PERSONLY. Im trying to give ideas to the creator of the site, So that we can make this site even better then it allready is.

And would you stop saying that because i have only been registred for a short period of time that I cant have oppionions? I though this fourm was welcoming and nice? What Happend to that.

.....
ok, one thing that Firefly fans need to do is upgrade to a dedicated server, Because I have submitted this thing three times and they have all timed out (and now i will get flamed for stating this fact as well)


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Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:51 AM

UBERGEEK


disregard, srever keeped timeing out

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:54 AM

UBERGEEK


So, appertly, you all think I hate the site and want to distory it. When if you accualy *read* my posts you would see that, im mearly giveing suggestions on how to make the site better.

and IT IS CLEARLY OBVIOUS THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE ALLREADY SIGNED UP ON THIS SITE CAN USE IT. Really, you dont need to go on about how well you can use this site and and how every other fan is exacly like you and knows how to use every site on the internet. Because, even though you may know how to use this site, others may not. Do you know how long it took me to figure out just how to go back to the Catigory above the thred I was in? (well i dont rember the time frame exacly but it was really annoying for a while going all the way back to the fourm home.)

I am not saying that this site sucks. Not one bit. Im not saying that I hate the site. Not one bit. I love this site. EVERY SINGLE WEBSITE IN EXISTANCE NEEDS IMPROVMENTS, Not just this one. so STOP TAKING WHAT IM SAYING PERSONLY. Im trying to give ideas to the creator of the site, So that we can make this site even better then it allready is.

And would you stop saying that because i have only been registred for a short period of time that I cant have oppionions? I though this fourm was welcoming and nice? What Happend to that.

.....
ok, one thing that Firefly fans need to do is upgrade to a dedicated server, Because I have submitted this thing three times and they have all timed out (and now i will get flamed for stating this fact as well)


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Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:01 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Just to clarify, you don't think turning up, saying a site is crap, slagging off all the technology behind it and saying you want to run a project to take the site away from it's owner isn't a little bit creepy?




Did I say I was defending him? No. In fact, I explicitly said that I wasn't. I just stated explicitly that he had some valid points. Care to argue with that instead of defending childish comments?

And (s)he didn't say that (s)he wanted to take the site away from the owner. In fact, (s)he explicitly stated that (s)he wanted to work with Haken to get it done (Failing that possibly starting his/her own site. Or are you against that as his/her right to do?). Did you read the post, or just read into it?

Also, why am I getting flak from this, as I am only saying that the tech should change to meet the changing needs of the site, and that the site should be re-written (backend) as it is obvious that it needs it. Furthermore, I said nothing about changing the look and feel of the site (in my proposal I explicitly stated that that would stay the same). As I've said, it could use some re-organization as it looks quite busy (and confusing to some, just check to archives for proof), but that is hardly an "extreme problem" that I brought up (ubergeek owns that one). Also, I said that I didn't start the project as I didn't think that Haken would go for it (I would want to work WITH HIM). So, I sat in my corner and waited and submitted an ignored improvement to the site (even though several stated that it should be snaged). If ubergeek gets the go ahead from Haken, I'll join in.

BUT, I'll explicitly state here and now, that I will not be helping to make a "competing site" as I'm content with this one. Just needs some fixing.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Here's a clue: it is. This site is owned and operated by Haken. It's his site. He wrote it all from scratch. He implemented, installed, maintains, owns and operates the server it uses. It's entirely custom. His design. He thought "M$" software was the best route.




And it's obvious that the M$ tech has become insufficient given all the problems that we've seen as of late. This isn't even debatable.

Furthermore, it is arguable that Haken is no longer maintaining the site, as he only fixes it when it breaks (and even then it may take days or more than a week to get fixed - no email notification anyone?). Also, I know that I've submitted bug reports up to several years ago, and every issue I've reported is still outstanding (I stopped sending them b/c of that). This spells no maintainence.

B/c I don't think that you're a developer, I think that I have to point out, that no matter how well designed a site is (backend) once in a while, it has to re-written from scratch. The reasons are various but acouple are:

- bugs resulting from a flawed design
- code becoming hard to read/maintain due to maintanence.



Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

And, to be honest, it's by far the longest running FFF site, it hasn't been hacked like half the other fan sites, and despite some stablility issues, it's still largely available and working a great many years later.




Some stability issues? Have you been here over the past couple months? The site has become so choked with requests that the DB can't handle the load (that's where I think that bulk of the problem lies as most errors are ODBC timeouts). Change to a faster/lower overhead DB anyone?


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

However, if Haken wants to maintain this place as his own, that's his call. If he wants to run an open project to open source the site, then great, but it needs taking up with him.




Actually, from http://www.fireflyfans.net/info.asp

"""
If you're interested in becoming a part of our team. Let me know.
"""

So, apparently he is open to help. I'd help closed or open, but any improvements that I've requested or given, have not even gotten a comment. Thus there is a contradition to what he advertises and what he does.

Anyone know what the real word is?

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:11 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by ubergeek:

ok, one thing that Firefly fans need to do is upgrade to a dedicated server, Because I have submitted this thing three times and they have all timed out (and now i will get flamed for stating this fact as well)




1) Assuming that this isn't run on a dedicated server right now, you going to pay for that?

2) Implementing paging for the threads would lessen the load on the DB as well as the pipe = better experience for everyone (this has been requested several times in the years that I've been here and obviously never done). So, far cheaper solution.

3) I understand that you're gung-ho about making suggestions for improvments, but lets not dig a hole in the back-yard with a bunker buster bomb, yes?

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:49 AM

WHOISRIVER


Okay, where to begin.

First of all, this site IS on a dedicated server. MS-SQL is falling over as the database tables are a bit fucked.

Quote:


Also, why am I getting flak from this, as I am only saying that the tech should change to meet the changing needs of the site, and that the site should be re-written (backend) as it is obvious that it needs it.



It's NOT obvious it needs it. Some of the queries need rewriting or optimising. That's it.

Quote:


And it's obvious that the M$ tech has become insufficient given all the problems that we've seen as of late. This isn't even debatable.



It *IS* debatable. It's not the technology that is at fault - it's the SQL queries. You could port the site to MySQL and it'd fuck up just as much if the SQL didn't work optimally.

Quote:

B/c I don't think that you're a developer,


I own Viral Fan Limited, a fan forum marketing company. That worked on Serenity.

Quote:

I think that I have to point out, that no matter how well designed a site is (backend) once in a while, it has to re-written from scratch.


No, that's simply not true.

Quote:

The reasons are various but acouple are:

- bugs resulting from a flawed design



Do you rewrite a project from scratch because of bugs?

Quote:


So, apparently he is open to help. I'd help closed or open, but any improvements that I've requested or given, have not even gotten a comment. Thus there is a contradition to what he advertises and what he does.



Maybe he doesn't agree with you? Maybe he doesn't want your help? Maybe he's, you know, busy with real life?

End of the day, his ship, his rules. I know you're just offering suggestions, but it's being done in a topic where people are slagging off the site. I know a lot of people actually like this site.

It definitely needs some work, but Haken *does* do that work when it's required to keep it flying.

Firefly was a series about a shitty ship they could barely keep in the air, which people called home, and many on board loved. It's probably a tad appropriate that the biggest fan site is comparable. This site isn't a site with a huge budget and loads of people admining it. There's, like, no moderators here. Haken is captain.

There's also many other boats - including one of my own - people have started.

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Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:27 PM

STINKINGROSE


Two cents anyone?
I am basically computer illiterate. Point and click and I'm happy, anything more complex and my lower lip begins to quiver.
I have dial up access, no high speed or broadband. I have no trouble navigating the site and the sidebars act as signposts for me.
I am married to someone who practically speaks Linux and several other programming languages. I've heard him cursing and seen how much time he puts in on just a wee bit of code.
A complete overhaul to take care of some (from what I have observed) minor glitches would be quite time consuming and probably bring down the whole site for days or weeks.
I think the animosity rearing its head here came from some less than optimally chosen wording and some others getting their hackles up without really considering the source.
The person suggesting an overhaul could have phrased things more delicately, but in my extensive experience with the typical nerd (myself included, believe me) choice of wording is often less than optimal and can lead to hurt feelings. Dealing with abstract concepts and hardware to the near exclusion of all else can hamper your social skills. Many of us never had much of those to start with, which is why we are percieved as "wierd" and part of what makes geeks the wacky wonderful people they usually are. Sometimes it just takes a gentle "I'm sorry, but I'm sure you didn't intend to insult this site. Could you try rephrasing your intended message?" Except you have to do it BEFORE the flame war breaks out.
I am new. My opinions are considered and nobody has called me a drooling idiot... yet.
It has been experiencing some technical difficulties lately. I happen to think it's pretty. Shiny even.
Everybody take a deep breath. Maybe if someone Haken is used to dealing with could float a PM and see if help is requested or required? Bull in a china shop's not likely to get help, old acquaintance looking for assistance friendly-like may. Has anybody tried asking Haken lately if business and/or OK-ness are occurring?

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Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:03 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

First of all, this site IS on a dedicated server. MS-SQL is falling over as the database tables are a bit fucked.




If the DB was "a bit fucked" then we'd be getting more than just regular timeouts on transactions.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Quote:


Also, why am I getting flak from this, as I am only saying that the tech should change to meet the changing needs of the site, and that the site should be re-written (backend) as it is obvious that it needs it.



It's NOT obvious it needs it. Some of the queries need rewriting or optimising. That's it.




Ok, I've been here for several years. When I first got here, no problems. BUT, before the movie came out the site started to exibite stress and now that our numbers have grown even more, it has become more than just stress. The load that this site is getting is currently more than it is able to handle for a good chunk of the time.

Btw, rewriting queries and optimising are just bandaids. Something that Haken has done in the past (e.g. disabling the archives). BUT, these are just bandaids. Something more needs to happen to rectify the source problem.

Paging is one solution (that I've mentioned above) that will buy more than just a little time. Also, moving to a lower overhead, more stable DB would be a massive improvement (MS-SQL is... slow).

It would also be wise to move a high load site over to a web server that is designed with the c10k problem in mind e.g. ligthttpd.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Quote:


And it's obvious that the M$ tech has become insufficient given all the problems that we've seen as of late. This isn't even debatable.



It *IS* debatable. It's not the technology that is at fault - it's the SQL queries. You could port the site to MySQL and it'd fuck up just as much if the SQL didn't work optimally.




So, then you've seen the code? B/c I know I've seen the ODBC timeout errors.

Also, MS-SQL is far slower than MySQL. The switch would be an improvment even if nothing was done to the queries. It's that the DB engine itself if faster.

What metric are you using that the speed of the DB engine doesn't matter?


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Quote:

B/c I don't think that you're a developer,


I own Viral Fan Limited, a fan forum marketing company. That worked on Serenity.




And? This does NOT mean that you're a developer. Just b/c you said you set something up, does NOT mean that you coded it. Does everyone that sets up phpBB code? Clearly not. Does everyone that runs a company code? Clearly not. I could go on.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Quote:

I think that I have to point out, that no matter how well designed a site is (backend) once in a while, it has to re-written from scratch.


No, that's simply not true.




Actually it is. The needs of a project will change over time. This means that the problem domain skews and as such so will the solution domain. Just b/c a solution fits one problem (or a family of problems) does NOT mean that the solution will fit every problem i.e. As needs change, so may the solution.

Also, just the normal maintainence will result in messing up the code over time. To keep the code base clean and readily maintainable, a re-write is needed from time to time. Or haven't you run long-term projects before?


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Quote:

The reasons are various but acouple are:

- bugs resulting from a flawed design



Do you rewrite a project from scratch because of bugs?




You miss my point completely (purposefully?).

I was NOT talking about re-writing b/c of bugs. I was talking about a flawed design (as indicated in what I wrote). Sometimes the flaws in a design will become known only after attempting implementation or even only known after years i.e. When the needs change and the design proves less scalable than thought, or it turns out that the solution needed to be more scalable than designed.

And typically, when it's a design issue, the design cannot be readily changed. Thus at least part of the project must be re-written to accomedate what needs to get done.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Quote:


So, apparently he is open to help. I'd help closed or open, but any improvements that I've requested or given, have not even gotten a comment. Thus there is a contradition to what he advertises and what he does.



Maybe he doesn't agree with you? Maybe he doesn't want your help? Maybe he's, you know, busy with real life?




One cannot argue that a bug doesn't exist when one points out how to reproduce it.

If someone doesn't whan someone else's help then that someone needs to send an reply stating so.

If he's been busy for over two years, then I'd gather we have a world record. Someone call Guinness.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

End of the day, his ship, his rules. I know you're just offering suggestions, but it's being done in a topic where people are slagging off the site. I know a lot of people actually like this site.




Not to be picky, but I think that it was only the one person who was "slagging off" the site. But, even then, it was with good intentions. Why can't it be expected that people actually think about what people write and just say "You could have worded that better" or ignore HOW it was said, and mainly address the issues brought up?

e.g. Is the site unusable? Well as the archives show, many a person have problems when the first get here. Does that mean that the site should be tweaked for ease of use? Probably.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

It definitely needs some work, but Haken *does* do that work when it's required to keep it flying.




And I stated this. BUT, when it comes down to it, not fixing bugs when reported is rather... well... it implies he doesn't really care. And fixing bugs is what is called maintainence. Not JUST proping it back up when the site falls on its face.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

Firefly was a series about a shitty ship they could barely keep in the air, which people called home, and many on board loved. It's probably a tad appropriate that the biggest fan site is comparable. This site isn't a site with a huge budget and loads of people admining it. There's, like, no moderators here. Haken is captain.




So, now you're just making excuses for the site falling on its face regularly? I find that a tad pathetic given that obvious solutions exist and wouldn't take much time at all to implement. Especially if Haken owned up to his claim that he's accepting help.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:

There's also many other boats - including one of my own - people have started.




So, again with the childish, "If you don't like it go away" thing, eh?

Why is it that when someone points out obvious flaws AND offers to help fix them, they get treated like the punched a baby in the face?

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:25 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:

I am married to someone who practically speaks Linux and several other programming languages. I've heard him cursing and seen how much time he puts in on just a wee bit of code.




It is amazing isn't it?

Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:

A complete overhaul to take care of some (from what I have observed) minor glitches would be quite time consuming and probably bring down the whole site for days or weeks.




Nope. Developement of a new backend wouldn't be done on the production site, it'd be done on the developers personal boxes and deployed when ready. Probably after relatively long beta period.


Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:

"I'm sorry, but I'm sure you didn't intend to insult this site. Could you try rephrasing your intended message?" Except you have to do it BEFORE the flame war breaks out.




Indeed! But, at the same time, I think its up to the people participating once things have hit the fan to notice when that person backed off the aggressive tone and stated his/her true feelings about the site and attempted to enter a fruitful discussion. To continue the flame war after that against them is rather non-productive.



Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:

It has been experiencing some technical difficulties lately.




I recived a rare reply from Haken when I reported that the site had completely fallen down again, and he stated that he was having problems with the server. Didn't say what, but something certainly decided to nuts in a weird way.


Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:

Everybody take a deep breath. Maybe if someone Haken is used to dealing with could float a PM and see if help is requested or required? Bull in a china shop's not likely to get help, old acquaintance looking for assistance friendly-like may. Has anybody tried asking Haken lately if business and/or OK-ness are occurring?




Don't think that I'm someone Haken is used to dealing with, but I just sent one. We'll see what happens.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:45 AM

STINKINGROSE


Shiny! Thanks.

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Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:52 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


I'm gonna throw in my two cents, 'kay?

Quote:

I am only saying all this because a big scary site that people dont know how to use right off the bat by just looking at the site *generaly* *tend* to scare people away from it. (im not saying this about any current members of the site, cause this obvoulsy dosnt apply to you)


I found this site at least a month before I joined, and I had no idea what was going on. No paging? What? I still want to cry when I see over 200 posts on the same page (if my computer will even load it, and, if I may say so, it's a damn good computer on a fast connection).

This site, on average, takes twice as long to load as any other site I visit, even when everything is cached (I remember what that word means? Or... don't I? Forgive me if it's wrong; I hope the meaning still comes across.).

And, something as simple (at least, I think it's simple; I see them everywhere else) as buttons, for changing the text to bold, or the emoticons, isn't on the site? Umm... yeah. Major props go to Haken for writing this all himself, but...

Don't get me wrong - this place is really cool (although it has a really high troll factor - at least, much higher than anywhere else I've been), and (most) people are really friendly! In fact, the friendlyness factor (combined with this being the largest fan site, and I hadn't found any others yet) was the main reason why I'm still here! I don't think I would still be here if Traveler and msg weren't (I hope no offense is taken, but they were the first two that I saw who were really kind and encouraging).

How did such a simple query turn into hostilities?

::shrugs, and retreats back into lurker-dom::

EDIT: And, the other thing that makes this site really cool (y'all are really cool, even when you're a little snarky) is that it's a huge fansite devoted to a cancelled TV show that got it's own movie!

---
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love - it's the only thing that there's just too little of. What the world needs now is love, sweet love. No, not just for some, but for everyone."

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