GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Will Joss kill off another character in S2?

POSTED BY: HIXIE129
UPDATED: Sunday, February 26, 2006 12:33
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Friday, February 24, 2006 12:58 PM

HIXIE129


When Serenity 2 gets made who is the next character to be killed?

Won't Joss want to kill off one of them?



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Friday, February 24, 2006 1:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, I wouldn't say that he HAS to kill of any more of our crew, but Joss being Joss, he certainly wouldn't flinch or hold back if he felt it was necessary. Look at his other shows [SPOILER ALERT!!] - He killed off Buffy. Twice. Of course, he brought her back twice, too. He killed Angel, but only when he was on Buffy, not when he was later the star of his own show (after having been brought back to life - or undeadness - of course). Even then, though, he did manage to kill off nearly every single other main character on the show: Wesley, Fred, Cordelia, Doyle, Darla, Leslie, Lilah, etc. And he killed a whole mess of core characters in Buffy: Joyce, Drusilla, Faith (comatose, not quite dead yet), Anya, Tara, Jenny Calendar. So he's definitely not a wimp when it comes to killing off key characters to drive the story forward.

Still, on "Buffy" he managed to keep the "core" Scooby gang alive and intact, if not exactly "well". Buffy, Giles, Willow, and Xander all survived the series from beginning to end. On "Angel" it was a different story, though: of the original Angel Team, only Angel survived to the bitter end.

So who's he going to kill off from our beloved ship's crew next? I can't say, but it will be a hell of a ride. And a hell of a shock, too. I wouldn't put off filling out those organ donor cards if I were shipping out on Serenity...

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

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Friday, February 24, 2006 1:33 PM

ZEEK


Um he killed off Darla on both Buffy and Angel thank you very much

Yeah he had a good run of killings going on. Though I'm not so sure Serenity 2 would be so bad. The problem with killing them off on a movie is he can't bring about new cast members to fill the voids as easily. People don't fall in love with new characters in two hours. Joss used to work them in over time. In the movie format he'd have to shove a new character down our throat and then kill em all in the same 2 hours. That's not nearly as heart wrenching.

Now if we get a Season 2 then all bets are off.

Though didn't I hear Joss wanted to kill everybody off before he got done with the 'verse. Or was that Tim?

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Friday, February 24, 2006 1:37 PM

HIXIE129


Yes Mike, he did kill off many characters. I think in Serenity 2 Joss might kill River or Simon.

I wouldn't like to see River die (I think I would die) but he might trade River's life for Mal's. And then Simon goes on to become an evil doctor and in S3 he is trying to kill Mal.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 1:39 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC


I don;t think he'll kill any more off, he doesn't need to, we know how bad it can get.

Of course what I think it not what matters here.

-

The last episode of Angel had a great line:
"I'm feeling grief. I wish to do more violence."
Or something like that. Joss should remember how many people want him dead. If he dies the whole crew goes with him. Characters are frail in that way.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 1:57 PM

STEAMER


Well, if Serenity 2 gets made at all (not getting hopes up, I'm afraid), I'll be first in line for a ticket, but...if he kills Kaylee off, I'm walkin' right out.

~

"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Um he killed off Darla on both Buffy and Angel thank you very much


ARRRRRRGGGHHH! How could I have forgotten that?! Now I have to go and rewatch Buffy again. Not like I really need an excuse, but it's nice to have one anyway. :)

I just *might* have too much time on my hands. Or not enough good TV. I can't decide.

A baby seal walks into a club...

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:11 PM

HIXIE129


If Kaylee get killed I would really be depressed. It would hurt too much not seeing those girls Serenity. I think that one of the guys would then have to go.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:16 PM

RISEAGAIN


Hi,

I'm new but I thought I'd pipe in, love the show, the crew, and this community of fans.

**spoilers**

I would put Inara and Zoe on the endangered list. As well as anyone that Mal brings on to replace Wash/Zoe.

Here's my thought if there's a second season or more. Inara and Mal get together. Then Inara reveals that she's suffering from some deadly longterm illness. Shortly after this she'll pry be held hostage and/or killed off quicker, because long term illnesses are bummers once revealed and I think it would make for dull/sad death. I could see the crew launching a full out assault to get her back only to end in failure. It's sad but it's what I'd do if I was Joss. It would take a season or two to flesh out though.

I think Zoe will be killed off as an act of sacrifice for the crew. After the loss of Wash I think in the back of her mind she wants to go out like that. That is something that would happen within one or two seasons.



"Everyone who ever had a statue made of them was one kind of SOB or another."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:29 PM

RIVERSONG


Jayne always seems to walk around with a big target on his chest....

But, I couldn't bear to see another one go. Maybe after this dicussion we could talk about who we'd like to see added! The mind reels with the possibilities.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:36 PM

AGIRLYMAN


I volunteer "Simon", his prissiness disturbs my calm.

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:39 PM

RISEAGAIN


I like the positive attitude lets hijack the thread and turn it into a what kind of character would you like to see added the crew of serenity.

Personally I'd like to see Joss start bringing more passengers on. The problem pre-BDM seemed to have been keeping Simon/River secret made it difficult to pick up travellers. If the heat from the Alliance was reduced by the conclusion of the BDM we could see quite a few passengers come on board for short durations of maybe an episode or two.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:41 PM

HIXIE129


Thats fine with me.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:42 PM

GUTTERBALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Riversong:
Jayne always seems to walk around with a big target on his chest....



HEY! None of that! *suffers panic attack*

While Jayne readily admits that his kinda life don't last long, I don't think I'd take too kindly to him kickin'. Plus, he's the mercenary only-partly-a-good-guy kind of guy (as evidenced by the fact that he wears hats...it does make sense, I promise), so I doubt it'd make for good theater for him to die, anyway.

...Unless of course Mr. Whedon decided to make him throw away his life to save the others in a final act of absolution.

...

NOOOOOO!

________________________________________

Please remember that the 9:30 show is completely different from the 7:30 show. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:47 PM

HIXIE129


I think Inara could have a one-night stand will Mal and then leaves and maybe goes to a monastery because she is pregnant and doesn't want to tell Mal.


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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:47 PM

STARSONG


I dunno.. I sense a bit of foreshadowing in Mal's hiring speech to Simon at the end of the pilot.

"Son, if I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed."

I can't say why, but I just get this erie Fates-In-A-Greek-Tragedy kinda sense that somehow, someway, someday... we may well see a faceoff between those two.




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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:53 PM

RISEAGAIN


Starsong,

Good catch I remember that quote and remember thinking how much it sounded like a foreshadowing. Based on those Mal has killed on the show, like in The Message I wouldn't put it past him to be "holding" a bullet for Simon.

"It always had your name on it I was just holding it for you."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:55 PM

HIXIE129


Maybe Jayne in a fit of jealousy kills Simon. Jayne does have big crush on Kaylee, so I think its possible.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:59 PM

RIVERSONG


Jayne has me worried. I think he and Mal are headed a dark road. Mal be holding a bullet for Jayne, though he held it back once. Jayne got stupid once, he may not be able to overcome his "true nature".

"I got stupid. The money was too good," Jayne.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:08 PM

GUTTERBALL


Yeah, but remember that in the BDM, Jayne was the one who whispered, "Did he do it? Do you think Mal got the word out?"

And he seemed darn relieved when Zoe said that of course he did.

I think a lot of the tension between Mal and Jayne has faded, though it'll still flare once in a while. The basis of their spats is more the "top dog" mentality -- Mal's top dog, and Jayne always has to try to be.

That'll lead to constant low-level bickering, but when it comes down to it, Jayne wouldn't betray Mal. Screw up and say something stupid, yes, maybe start a fist fight between them, yes, but...I don't think anything requiring guns.

Also keep in mind that Jayne was the one Mal asked about how sober he'd been when he married Saffron. Something about that little exchange always tells me that they're more than just payor and payee.

Mal: How drunk was I last night?
Jayne: I dunno. I passed out.

Can't explain it, other than that Jayne's the only one Mal trusts to not make fun or exaggerate or feed him BS at that moment. He expects a straight answer.

________________________________________

Please remember that the 9:30 show is completely different from the 7:30 show. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:10 PM

EARLYSUMMER


Quote:

originally posted by RISEAGAIN:

I like the positive attitude lets hijack the thread and turn it into a what kind of character would you like to see added the crew of serenity.



I say bring Besser back for S2. He can be the new pilot seeing how his career as a mechanic got cut a little short. Plus it would make a good love triangle story between him, Kaylee, and Simon. Especially when he keeps trying to get Kaylee alone in the engine room




"Genius, nobody's ever called me that before."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:14 PM

THEREAVER


It'll be either Simon or Kaylee. When I went to see the BDM during the making out scene I shouted "NOOO! Don't get together! Joss will kill you in the sequel!" which prompted a cinema full of laughing people.

-----------------------
I'll rape you to death.
I'll eat your flesh.
I'll sew your skin into my clothes.
If you're very very lucky, I'll do it in that order - TheReaver

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:15 PM

HIXIE129


I wouldn't mind seeing Kaylee in the engine room again with him. Also do you remember when she was getting dressed in that scene, did she have teddy bears on her panties?

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:16 PM

RISEAGAIN


Quote:


Jayne has me worried. I think he and Mal are headed a dark road. Mal be holding a bullet for Jayne, though he held it back once. Jayne got stupid once, he may not be able to overcome his "true nature".



This brings me to a question.


Who wouldn't Mal Kill? Based on relationship and personality who on the crew of Serenity would never get themselves in a situation to be killed by a bullet Mal was holding for them?

Zoe
Inara
Kaele

Who would Mal Kill?

Jayne
River (Crazy River that is)
Simon
Everyone else in the galaxy



"I just want to go my way."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:20 PM

RISEAGAIN


Quote:


say bring Besser back for S2. He can be the new pilot seeing how his career as a mechanic got cut a little short. Plus it would make a good love triangle story between him, Kaylee, and Simon. Especially when he keeps trying to get Kaylee alone in the engine room



excellent

"So why do we need two mechanics?"

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:23 PM

EARLYSUMMER


Quote:

Hixie129 wrote:

I wouldn't mind seeing Kaylee in the engine room again with him. Also do you remember when she was getting dressed in that scene, did she have teddy bears on her panties?



I don't know, I never looked.


"I saw the problem clear as day when I was lying on my back." - Kaylee

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:24 PM

RIVERSONG


OMG! I know who the next to die would be.............a dulcimer!

"You killed a dulcimer in a terrible passion. And now that dulcimer's family is out to get you..."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:37 PM

EARLYSUMMER


Quote:

Riseagain wrote:

Who would Mal Kill?

Jayne
River (Crazy River that is)
Simon
Everyone else in the galaxy



I don't think Mal would kill River. He seems to have appointed himself as River's unofficial protector. Look at all the times he could have easily have just left River/Simon and been on his way without any more hassles. By keeping them on, he endangers his crew, so why does he?
"Didn't we have an intricate plan on how they were not going to be here?" - Jayne

As much as he disagrees with Simon (alot), Simon has saved his life(OoG) and the rest of the crew's on occasion. I don't think Mal ever wants to kill him, maybe punch him with a closed fist (it is on occasion hilarious). Mal just likes to threaten Simon, that's all.

As for Jayne, I don't think he really was gonna kill Jayne in Ariel, that's just the only way to get anything through to his thick skull.

As for everyone else, well, that's open season.

Man, I wrote alot, sorry.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:47 PM

RISEAGAIN


Quote:


I don't think Mal would kill River. He seems to have appointed himself as River's unofficial protector. Look at all the times he could have easily have just left River/Simon and been on his way without any more hassles. By keeping them on, he endangers his crew, so why does he?
"Didn't we have an intricate plan on how they were not going to be here?" - Jayne

As much as he disagrees with Simon (alot), Simon has saved his life(OoG) and the rest of the crew's on occasion. I don't think Mal ever wants to kill him, maybe punch him with a closed fist (it is on occasion hilarious). Mal just likes to threaten Simon, that's all.

As for Jayne, I don't think he really was gonna kill Jayne in Ariel, that's just the only way to get anything through to his thick skull.

As for everyone else, well, that's open season.



I'm not saying Mal would ever want to kill them. I just think he could be put in a position that necessitate him putting a bullet in them to save himself or the rest of his crew.

I remember a quote or something about Joss not liking people and this meant Mal would kill people we like and puppies or some such thing.

"It always had your name on it, I was just carrying it for you."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:51 PM

ASARIAN



Can we maybe vote on the whole murdering River issue? Nobody touch her! And whoever kills her, better kill me, cuz I'm gonna kill them! :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:06 PM

HIXIE129


Ok, asarian but you gotta admit that joss might kill off the character, it is remote.. very remote.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:13 PM

WILDIGSTART


I love my Simon, but I think he's got the biggest target on his chest. Of course, if he wanted to end the series all together, he'd kill Kaylee or Mal. If one of them dies, we know it's over...can't live without heart or soul.

Simon
Inara
Jayne
Zoe
River
Mal
Kaylee

This isn't crew importance. It's just plot significance. Simon goes out...River and Kaylee are lost in the wind. They get lost, the ship falls apart. River's death will destroy Simon and Mal. Mal's death will break River, Inara and Kaylee. Kaylee's death would rip the ship apart. The ship loses Kaylee, the ship can no longer fly.

Feel free to completely disagree. It's more fun that way. :-)





You see? She's not a junkie or mentally ill, she's gifted!--Momma Roxy

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:17 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:

Ok, asarian but you gotta admit that joss might kill off the character, it is remote.. very remote.



I honestly cannot see that happen (in every way thinkable). Without River, there's no FireFly. The best thing to do, if someone must die per se, would then be to kill off all the other characters first, and just keep River. :)

No, seriously, let's not kill any of the crew. I'm still trying to cope with Washes death. And if Joss really kills off the River character, or has her sent off somewhere, then I will take my Browncoat, gently hand it to the person next to me, and leave the theatre. Then I will go home, and weep uncontrollably for weeks. :( Seriously, even the thought alone gets me all terrified.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:19 PM

RISEAGAIN


Yeah,

River has way to much potential character development to kill off hand and she still has a lot of secrets wrapped up in her head that will take many episodes/seasons/BDMs to develop.

Think of what the possibilities could be.

* She knows the secret of "earth that was"
* Figures out how to stop the Reavers
* Starts her own cult.
* Dark River Saga - where river becomes a type of villian.
* Mal kills River in the climactic show finally or vise versa .

Oh the potential

"It always had your name on it, I was just holding it for you."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:23 PM

HIXIE129


Yeh, without River it would never be the same.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:23 PM

THEINCOMPARABLENOTION


I believe it's likely that Inara's going to be killed off next, most of this this is based off pure speculation though. But, if she were killed, I think that Mal and the rest of the crew would lament, but would go on nonetheless. It's also very plausible that Jayne will be killed, probably in a noble way...or betraying the crew in some way, (he's capable of it, you know) but I don't think he would do it a second time. I don't know, maybe I just didn't get those subtle plot messages everyone's referring to, maybe they're relevant as well.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:32 PM

THEINCOMPARABLENOTION


Quote:

No, seriously, let's not kill any of the crew. I'm still trying to cope with Washes death.


Yes, that was difficult to cope with, Wash was one of my favorite characters, I was aghast when he was killed in Serenity; he was so vulnerable, it was easy to identify with him and how he dealt with everything. I think he was one of the most interesting characters, and he just had to be killed...

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:52 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by TheIncomparableNotion:

Quote:

No, seriously, let's not kill any of the crew. I'm still trying to cope with Washes death.


Yes, that was difficult to cope with, Wash was one of my favorite characters, I was aghast when he was killed in Serenity; he was so vulnerable, it was easy to identify with him and how he dealt with everything. I think he was one of the most interesting characters, and he just had to be killed...



Some people think Wash was just the comic relief. I think he was much more. He has a centeredness about him, even a moral one, that I found quite appealing (far more so than in Book, whose moral compass always seemed to point in the right direction on the outside, but where you're still left doubting about the inner workings).

Wash was a good man; generous, honest, and genuine; the real article. When Captain was tortured, he didn't hesitate for one moment to go back and rescue him.

Now, look at me, waxing lovingly about Wash as if he were River, lol. :) But seriously, Washes death was quite unacceptable in a way. That is, I have a hard time picturing the crew without him.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:53 PM

WHITEFALL


I think others have said this too, but I am of the opinion that Joss doesnt need to kill anyone else off in the second movie. Imo, he cant afford to, because his stuff isnt about people dying, it's about people living, and if he gets a chance to do a sequel, for sure he would give wash's and book's deaths the backlash they deserve.

In Buffy n Angel, he had to occassionally kill folk to remind everyone that the world they lived in was actually really dangerous... and, if you think of movie-firefly as a new series (because a lot of folk would go see serenity2 on the strength of serenity1, i think) then those folks know that people can die, the movie doesnt have to be, nor should it be, about just randomly killing folks.

I survived a day in Whitefall and all I got was this lousy signature!

Terrifying Space Monkey of Destiny

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:01 PM

THEINCOMPARABLENOTION


Yes, quite true, Wash was a simple character; but there was also that underlying complexity. It just made you wonder "How would Wash respond to this?" It's not always apparent how he would assess a situation because of that complexity. And he'd have none of that ambiguity of most of the other crew members, whose morals and ethics are not always clearly defined. He contributed a sense of stability to the mostly unstable crew. I think that worked well in regard to the story, but also to the character himself.

I didn't like the way he died.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:04 PM

HIXIE129


Asarian, if it was either River or Wash who had to get killed on the show, wouldn't you have Wash killed in a heartbeat?

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:10 PM

RISEAGAIN


Quote:


Now, look at me, waxing lovingly about Wash as if he were River, lol. :) But seriously, Washes death was quite unacceptable in a way. That is, I way a hard time picturing the crew without him.



Yeah the Wash dynamic reminded me of the fulcrum of a teater toter /sp He would always try to bring people back to the reality of the situation when they were on the emotional edge.

"Can we vote on the killing people."

Losing him hurt and Joss meant it to as he said in the commentary he wanted us to think he could kill them all if he would kill a great character and person like Wash. I'm not sure Joss would kill another crew member in a BDM, but I wouldn't put it past him. If there is a continuation of the series as in another season I could see others dying. But it would be over the course of several seasons not just off the cuff Joss is to good of a writer. It would be emotionally unrealistic if people we're close to died every season and he might even use other venues like seperation due to personal differences or problems.

In a BDM I think it would be more likely he would bring two or three new people into the fold and kill one or two of them and have the survivor stay with the crew.

Something about Mal killing puppies and people we like. Per Joss

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:10 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:

Asarian, if it was either River or Wash who had to get killed on the show, wouldn't you have Wash killed in a heartbeat?



Diplomatic answer: I'd rather keep them both.
Honest answer: yes.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:12 PM

OLDFOGEY


Mal was already killed off once, in War Stories. He only stayed dead a few seconds though. Kinda proves to me that Joss got that point out of the way early on (or what *should have been* early on) so no more talkin about not having Mal to kick around anymore. He's gotta be the biggest walking target in the 'verse but they can't afford to let him get killed again. Besides if they did they'd lose at least half their female audience.

If they're going to add new characters, I vote for some Asian crew. Where are the Chinese guys? It would be fun to see... oh, not Andy Lau. He's almost as pretty as Mal. Wait - that would be a good thing. Yeah. Andy Lau.



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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:19 PM

STARRBABY


Wash had to die. He was the poet. It's a Shakespearian (yes I know I can't spell)/ greek thing.
For those of us who knew he was more than a "red shirt", he was the one with the soft heart. His final flare up was so poetic and passion filled, he had to die.

Back to the actual topic at hand. . . I see inara goin' down. (I know . . bad pun for a companion) Her "big secret" will be her undoing. I can also see jayne dying to save Kaylee or Mal.

In a related topic. The forshadowing that Simon will take someone out is so blatent. The man who swore to heal will kill. . . probably for River.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:25 PM

DECKROID


River is on the short list.

"I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not! So where does that put you?"

Yeah, Serenity was River's view of Mal, but remember, Joss is very much into Faulkner and the whole Stream of Consiousness. (for those who don't know, Google it) So, in keeping with Joss's askewed view of the universe, I can see River getting taken out.

Kaylee too. For the very same reason. But for some strange reason, I see Mal, Jayne and Zoe as safe.


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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:26 PM

RISEAGAIN


If Jayne dies I'll be surprised. True he does have a huge target painted on him and I would have expected him to be dead a long time ago. However, he's such a useful character as a foil for Mal. Jayne is a dirty mercenary vs. Mal as the gritty rogue with honor. Mal has rules, Jayne has needs.

"It always had your name on it, I was just carrying it for you."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:31 PM

HIXIE129


I still think Inara will get pregnant, she will not tell Mal and she will go off somewhere and have twins. And we will have a movie 20 yrs later

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:32 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Starrbaby:

Back to the actual topic at hand. . . I see inara goin' down. (I know . . bad pun for a companion) Her "big secret" will be her undoing. I can also see jayne dying to save Kaylee or Mal.

In a related topic. The forshadowing that Simon will take someone out is so blatent. The man who swore to heal will kill. . . probably for River.



Inara has a secret too? If so, I don't see it. I mean, she's a whore (Kaylee: the term is 'companion'). But that's hardly a secret.

Simon killing for River, I like that! It will yet be another huge sacrifice he makes for her; and I will no doubt cry over it endlessly (in a good way, cuz it's a beautiful let's-all-show-our-undying-Love-for-River thing).


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:34 PM

RISEAGAIN


Quote:


In a related topic. The forshadowing that Simon will take someone out is so blatent. The man who swore to heal will kill. . . probably for River.



If River got captured by the alliance and went dark side. Who would Simon side with if she went after Mal. Who would we?

"It always had your name on it, I was just holding if for you."

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