REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

It used to be illegal for the CIA to spread propaganda thru USA media...

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, July 21, 2023 05:03
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Saturday, December 19, 2020 5:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ever wonder why there are so many more LIES in the M$M and corporate social media than before? (eg RUSSIA!RUSSIA! and variations thereof?)

Well, it used to be illegal for the CIA to directly give stories to USA media, and so the CIA had to use several workrounds ... plant stories in foreign media for example, that the USA press could then report on.

HOWEVER, in 2013 (under Obama, in case you weren't keeping track) ...


Quote:

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News to Americans

For decades, a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences.
John Hudson
July 14, 2013, 7:06 PM


For decades, a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government’s mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences. But on July 2, that came silently to an end with the implementation of a new reform passed in January. The result: an unleashing of thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs for domestic U.S. consumption in a reform initially criticized as a green light for U.S. domestic propaganda efforts. So what just happened?

Until this month, a vast ocean of U.S. programming produced by the Broadcasting Board of Governors such as Voice of America, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, and the Middle East Broadcasting Networks could only be viewed or listened to at broadcast quality in foreign countries. The programming varies in tone and quality, but its breadth is vast: It’s viewed in more than 100 countries in 61 languages. The topics covered include human rights abuses in Iran, self-immolation in Tibet, human trafficking across Asia, and on-the-ground reporting in Egypt and Iraq.

The restriction of these broadcasts was due to the Smith-Mundt Act, a long-standing piece of legislation that has been amended numerous times over the years, perhaps most consequentially by Arkansas Senator J. William Fulbright. In the 1970s, Fulbright was no friend of VOA and Radio Free Europe, and moved to restrict them from domestic distribution, saying they "should be given the opportunity to take their rightful place in the graveyard of Cold War relics." Fulbright’s amendment to Smith-Mundt was bolstered in 1985 by Nebraska Senator Edward Zorinsky, who argued that such "propaganda" should be kept out of America as to distinguish the U.S. "from the Soviet Union where domestic propaganda is a principal government activity."

Zorinsky and Fulbright sold their amendments on sensible rhetoric: American taxpayers shouldn’t be funding propaganda for American audiences. So did Congress just tear down the American public’s last defense against domestic propaganda?

BBG spokeswoman Lynne Weil insists BBG is not a propaganda outlet, and its flagship services such as VOA "present fair and accurate news."

Uh huh

Quote:

"They don’t shy away from stories that don’t shed the best light on the United States," she told The Cable. She pointed to the charters of VOA and RFE: "Our journalists provide what many people cannot get locally: uncensored news, responsible discussion, and open debate."

A former U.S. government source with knowledge of the BBG says the organization is no Pravda, but it does advance U.S. interests in more subtle ways. In Somalia, for instance, VOA serves as counterprogramming to outlets peddling anti-American or jihadist sentiment. "Somalis have three options for news," the source said, "word of mouth, al-Shabab, or VOA Somalia."

This partially explains the push to allow BBG broadcasts on local radio stations in the United States. The agency wants to reach diaspora communities, such as St. Paul, Minnesota’s significant Somali expat community. "Those people can get al-Shabab, they can get Russia Today, but they couldn’t get access to their taxpayer-funded news sources like VOA Somalia," the source said. "It was silly."

Lynne added that the reform has a transparency benefit as well. "Now Americans will be able to know more about what they are paying for with their tax dollars — greater transparency is a win-win for all involved," she said. And so with that we have the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, which passed as part of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act, and went into effect this month.

But if anyone needed a reminder of the dangers of domestic propaganda efforts, the past 12 months provided ample reasons. Last year, two USA Today journalists were ensnared in a propaganda campaign after reporting about millions of dollars in back taxes owed by the Pentagon’s top propaganda contractor in Afghanistan. Eventually, one of the co-owners of the firm confessed to creating phony websites and Twitter accounts to smear the journalists anonymously. Additionally, just this month, the Washington Post exposed a counter-propaganda program by the Pentagon that recommended posting comments on a U.S. website run by a Somali expat with readers opposing al-Shabab. "Today, the military is more focused on manipulating news and commentary on the Internet, especially social media, by posting material and images without necessarily claiming ownership," reported the Post.



I noticed they shied away from mentioning the CIA and State Department (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the CIA) as possible sources of disinformation. Considering that the CIA/State lies, cheats, and steals as SOP, this is a big gap in the article

Quote:

But for BBG officials, the references to Pentagon propaganda efforts are nauseating, particularly because the Smith-Mundt Act never had anything to do with regulating the Pentagon, a fact that was misunderstood in media reports in the run-up to the passage of new Smith-Mundt reforms in January.

One example included a report by the late BuzzFeed reporter Michael Hastings, who suggested that the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act would open the door to Pentagon propaganda of U.S. audiences. In fact, as amended in 1987, the act only covers portions of the State Department engaged in public diplomacy abroad (i.e. the public diplomacy section of the "R" bureau, and the Broadcasting Board of Governors.)

But the news circulated regardless, much to the displeasure of Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-TX), a sponsor of the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012. "To me, it’s a fascinating case study in how one blogger was pretty sloppy, not understanding the issue and then it got picked up by Politico‘s Playbook, and you had one level of sloppiness on top of another," Thornberry told The Cable last May. "And once something sensational gets out there, it just spreads like wildfire."

That of course doesn’t leave the BBG off the hook if its content smacks of agitprop. But now that its materials are allowed to be broadcast by local radio stations and TV networks, they won’t be a complete mystery to Americans. "Previously, the legislation had the effect of clouding and hiding this stuff," the former U.S. official told The Cable. "Now we’ll have a better sense: Gee some of this stuff is really good. Or gee some of this stuff is really bad. At least we’ll know now."



https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spread
s-government-made-news-to-americans
/

Foreign Policy magazine is a premier publication for State Department sponsored think tanks, apologists, and disinformationalists. It puts the most absolutely positive spin on CIA/State Department policy.

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Saturday, December 19, 2020 6:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



bump

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Sunday, December 20, 2020 3:26 PM

REAVERFAN


That's not news to us people who live in the US and are not Russian trolls like you.



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Sunday, December 20, 2020 4:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I've noticed that NBC nightly news has taken a hard turn to running propaganda, making claims I know for a fact aren't true, for example, that the Pfizer vaccine protects against virus transmission, when Pfizer itself already admitted weeks ago they never studied that; or that the US government didn't really know it'd been hacked through SolarWinds software when they knew about it 9 months ago; or that the hack was Russian when there's not one bit of evidence for that and most places are still reporting it as 'possible'; and recently citing Bellingcat! (snicker) plus yet another instant 'expert' to reflate the Navalny story.

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Monday, December 21, 2020 12:40 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
That's not news to us people who live in the US and are not Russian trolls like you.






Seriously, how has no one noticed these two by now and kicked them off our internets??

I guess they just aren't much of a threat to those who have a brain

Even the government thinks your tactics are weak tea




Apparently, you say tea as "Chai" in Russian, but I'm sure you both knew that already... and there is 12 ways to say "weak".

I guess I need to learn how to say "inferiority complex" in Russian next. It seems appropriate


I WILL HEARTILY DEFEND HUMAN RIGHTS UNTIL YOU CAN SEE YOUR WRONGS
................................ https://refusefascism.org/....................................


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Monday, December 21, 2020 2:04 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


They're not from Russia, you inbred fuck.

What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)

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Monday, December 21, 2020 2:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIX: They're not from Russia, you inbred fuck.
Well, now they can't hate Trump so they have to make up something else to excuse their bad behavior.

Hate-filled people will always find a "reason" to hate.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 12:08 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:


Hate-filled people will always find a "reason" to hate.





My "reason to hate" is because you two are traitors who advised that the people of this country should give our nukes to Russia to prevent them starting a war. Because you looove a bully, apparently.

Treason is a pretty big reason. And... WHY?? The only thing Russians do better than us is be completely useless drunken assholes. Their only goal in life is to mess with people because they are too useless to do anything else. Kind of like you two I definitely see a resemblance!


I don't know why the FBI hasn't dragged you two off. I'm guessing that after seeing Trump act like a seditious turd you two are just small fry.


I still have my fingers crossed it'll happen one day though




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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 1:05 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


They can't be treasonous if they are posting from Russia.

So which is it? Are they traitors, or are they Russian citizens?


You stupid fuck.

What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 1:51 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, now they can't hate Trump so they have to make up something else to excuse their bad behavior.

Hate-filled people will always find a "reason" to hate.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

It has finally trickled into my consciousness that there are indeed people who build their personalities and lives on hate.

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 2:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, now they can't hate Trump so they have to make up something else to excuse their bad behavior.

Hate-filled people will always find a "reason" to hate.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

It has finally trickled into my consciousness that there are indeed people who build their personalities and lives on hate.

Well, with Trump out of the picture, or at least soon-to-be, what will their obsessions and delusions revolve around NOW?

Russia?
China?
Terrorists?
The ever-favorite, and virtually non-existent "fascists"? (At least, as they picture them.)
Space aliens?
The "axis of evil"?
The plague?
Trumpists?

It will be interesting to see what hysteria they latch onto next. Or, more likely, what hysteria the M$M will implant in their brains next. It'll be fun to speculate what the Fickle Finger of Fate will point to! (I have a guess but I'll post about that later!)


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 9:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, with Trump out of the picture, or at least soon-to-be, what will their obsessions and delusions revolve around NOW?



Even with the election stolen to get what they've wanted for the last four years, you can see it hasn't done anything to cheer them up.

They get worse every year.


I think that they're afraid they aren't going to get what they want.



Except for Ted. Ted is a warmongering NeoCon Bushite and will be happy we're turning the clock back to 2004.

What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 12:54 PM

WISHIMAY


Sometimes "Building a life on hate" also means "building a life on a principle".

I hate child molesters. I hate traitors. I hate the lying pieces of shit that make up the GOP.... Pretty good use of my hate.

It don't matter where they post from, they still need to be taken to a nice dark, cold, prison cell and left there.







I WILL HEARTILY DEFEND HUMAN RIGHTS UNTIL YOU CAN SEE YOUR WRONGS
................................ https://refusefascism.org/....................................


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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 1:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



And that's why you'd kill 7+BILLION people on the planet, down to the last 100 ... except yourself, of course, and your immediate family, because you're so special and deserving.

That's the rationalization your hate-infection gets you to.

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 1:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


"Build a life on hate."

Words of wisdom from our resident asshole.

What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 2:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Sometimes "Building a life on hate" also means "building a life on a principle".

I hate child molesters. I hate traitors. I hate the lying pieces of shit that make up the GOP.... Pretty good use of my hate.

It don't matter where they post from, they still need to be taken to a nice dark, cold, prison cell and left there.



As I recall, you would genocide most of the world, not for anything they did, or even anything they said, but based on what YOU IMAGINE they think. (And seeing as how you've gotten THAT wrong, time and time again, just based on your posting history here, I'd say you were a poor interpreter of people's thoughts.)

Well, a lot of people would hate YOU, WISHY, on principle, not based on what you've done, but for simply aspiring to be a genocidal maniac. Maybe YOU should go to a cold, dark cell and left there for what YOU post?

*****

Where's your logic, WISHY?
What is the purpose of YOUR principles?
As far as I can tell, it is to "protect people" from "fascists" (or people you imagine to be "fascists"), child molesters, traitors ...
And what is the purpose of protecting "people" from malefactors?
To preserve people's freedoms, so they don't have to live in fear?

So, why would you impose a Reign of Terror on most of the people of the world, based not on any system of individual justice, but your categorical fears?
Aren't you just making YOURSELF the object of terror, and imposing a different form of tyranny on the survivors of your rampages?

Isn't that like "destroying the village in order to save it"? That makes no sense, and neither do you.

I WILL HEARTILY DEFEND HUMAN RIGHTS UNTIL WISHY CAN SEE HER WRONGS

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 2:28 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Ever wonder why there are so many more LIES in the M$M and corporate social media than before? (eg RUSSIA!RUSSIA! and variations thereof?)

Well, it used to be illegal for the CIA to directly give stories to USA media, and so the CIA had to use several workrounds ... plant stories in foreign media for example, that the USA press could then report on.

HOWEVER, in 2013 (under Obama, in case you weren't keeping track) ...





More lies and bullshit form our local russian troll.

T


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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 3:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



THUGGER, you're another person who's built your personality and your life on hate.


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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 5:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

THUGGER, you're another person who's built your personality and your life on hate.


THUGR'S problem is that he's too stupid to think for himself. He flunked out of the army (which was the high point of his life) and he's been wanting to get back in ever since, where he will be told when, where, how, why, and what to think and do.

When he uses the term "russian troll" he knows nothing about Russia and nothing about trolls (If he did, he would know that he, himself, is one), he just parrots the term because it's been officially blessed.

Basically, he wants to burrow as far deep into the "official" herd as he possibly can. If he could climb up the estalishment's anus, he would.

And I would feel sorry for him and be nicer to him if he wasn't such an a-hole to me.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 7:30 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
and he's been wanting to get back in ever since, where he will be told when, where, how, why, and what to think and do.




THEY THINK EVERYONE WANTS TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO


I really just need to change my sig line to EVERY FASCIST EVERY TIME

Maybe then they'd get my level of commitment

But I like the one I got now, so...


I WILL HEARTILY DEFEND HUMAN RIGHTS UNTIL YOU CAN SEE YOUR WRONGS
................................ https://refusefascism.org/....................................


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Tuesday, December 22, 2020 8:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Nilbog loves it when Governor Holcomb tells her to wear a mask in public.



What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)

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Wednesday, December 23, 2020 1:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNYM: and he's been wanting to get back in ever since, where he will be told when, where, how, why, and what to think and do.

WISHY: THEY THINK EVERYONE WANTS TO BE TOLD WHAT TO DO



Your post, TWITCHY? That is YET ANOTHER example of you completely not understanding what someone thinks, and the reason why I sure wouldn't want you in charge of... anyone.

What is the basis of that problem, TWITCHY? Is it that you can't read or is THINKING NOT YOUR SKILL?

Did I post about EVERYONE?

THUGR wants to be told what to do. YOU, OTOH, want to be the tyrant telling everyone else what to do, what to say, and how to think.

Yanno, kind of like your relationship with your husband, except you're not having sex with THUGR.

Or, maybe you are.
Who knows?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Wednesday, December 23, 2020 11:05 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, kind of like your relationship with your husband, except you're not having sex with THUGR.

Or, maybe you are.
Who knows?



Nah...

This is the only thing Nilbog is fucking...



What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)

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Wednesday, December 23, 2020 2:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, kind of like your relationship with your husband, except you're not having sex with THUGR.

Or, maybe you are.
Who knows?



Nah...

This is the only thing Nilbog is fucking...



What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)



PFWAAAAA!

...

YOU OWE ME A NEW KEYBOARD!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Wednesday, December 23, 2020 3:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Check's in the mail.



What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)

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Wednesday, December 23, 2020 3:37 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNYM:
Well, now they can't hate Trump so they have to make up something else to excuse their bad behavior.

Hate-filled people will always find a "reason" to hate.

KIKI: It has finally trickled into my consciousness that there are indeed people who build their personalities and lives on hate.


SIGNY: Well, with Trump out of the picture, or at least soon-to-be, what will their obsessions and delusions revolve around NOW?

Russia?
China?
Terrorists?
The ever-favorite, and virtually non-existent "fascists"? (At least, as they picture them.)
Space aliens?
The "axis of evil"?
The plague?
Trumpists?

It will be interesting to see what hysteria they latch onto next. Or, more likely, what hysteria the M$M will implant in their brains next. It'll be fun to speculate what the Fickle Finger of Fate will point to! (I have a guess but I'll post about that later!)

Bet most of you don't remember where the phrase Fickle Finger of Fate came from.

Anyway, my best guess is that TPTB will rag on...
Trump
Russia
Flynn
... because two of them are the biggest internal threats to the established order, and might actually spearhead an independent populist political movement. Flynn in particular, because he would be the brains behind the avatar. So you'll read all kinds of stories [lies] about him suggesting a military coup, etc, painting him as a traitor. And RUSSIA!!! because it is a convenient boogeyman. There is very little trade and few financial transactions between the USA and Russia, and therefore it would cost the deep state nothing to slag Russia continually. Unlike China.

China, OTOH. Well Elon Musk wants his lithium and Apple wants their factories and the Treasury wants China to keep buying Treasuries and so there would be real pain pissing off China too deeply, as Trump did. So I think I can safely excluded China from aggressive acts from the USA. However, CHINA may not feel so accommodating! They may continue their provocations in the Straits of Taiwan, so altho there may be TRADE relaxation between China and the USA (that's why the tech companies gave Biden so much money) there may be military maneuvers.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Wednesday, December 23, 2020 4:09 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

THUGGER, you're another person who's built your personality and your life on hate.


THUGR'S problem is that he's too stupid to think for himself. He flunked out of the army (which was the high point of his life) and he's been wanting to get back in ever since, where he will be told when, where, how, why, and what to think and do.




Sites please.

T


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Wednesday, December 23, 2020 4:13 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SIGNYM:
Well, now they can't hate Trump so they have to make up something else to excuse their bad behavior.

Hate-filled people will always find a "reason" to hate.

KIKI: It has finally trickled into my consciousness that there are indeed people who build their personalities and lives on hate.


SIGNY: Well, with Trump out of the picture, or at least soon-to-be, what will their obsessions and delusions revolve around NOW?

Russia?
China?
Terrorists?
The ever-favorite, and virtually non-existent "fascists"? (At least, as they picture them.)
The "axis of evil"?
The plague?
Trumpists?




Of course I dislike those on your list at this point in time. That fact that you don't is the larger point. Oh, I removed space aliens from your list because I don't know any. It worries me to think you believe you do.

T


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Wednesday, December 23, 2020 6:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNYM:
Well, now they can't hate Trump so they have to make up something else to excuse their bad behavior.

Hate-filled people will always find a "reason" to hate.

KIKI: It has finally trickled into my consciousness that there are indeed people who build their personalities and lives on hate.


SIGNY: Well, with Trump out of the picture, or at least soon-to-be, what will their obsessions and delusions revolve around NOW?

Russia?
China?
Terrorists?
The ever-favorite, and virtually non-existent "fascists"? (At least, as they picture them.)
The "axis of evil"?
The plague?
Trumpists?



THUGR: Of course I dislike those on your list at this point in time. That fact that you don't

Where did I post THAT?
Quote:

is the larger point. Oh, I removed space aliens from your list because I don't know any. It worries me to think you believe you do.
I said OBSESSSIONS AND DELUSIONS. I pretty much dislike everything on that list, and a from couple of things I think we should be a lot more pro-active about protecting ourselves, but I don't consider myself obsessed or deluded about any of them.

Iraq's WMD, for example. Certainly something to look into, not something to like, but not worth the hysteria and costs of invasion.

RUSSIA!COLLUSION! was a complete fabrication. Russia is not trying take over the world. But we should still treat Russia as a competitor.

OTOH I think CHINA IS taking over the world, with the collusion of our elite, and if we (people) had two neurons to rub together we would recognize China for the threat that it has become.

Just expect to see a lot of lies and spinin the future, since we've been deluged with a lot of lies and spin in the past. Don't get swept up in the latest manufactured hysteria. Understand what our interests are, and when they're being crossed, and you won't be fooled again.

So, what ARE our interests, anyway?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Thursday, December 24, 2020 12:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


So when we start calling them Bidenists, do we put the asterisk in the middle or at the end of the word?

Biden*ists

Bidenists*

I'm thinking in the middle.

What have you done today to earn your place in this crowded world? :)

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Thursday, December 24, 2020 2:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


THUGR, I just want to give you an example of my reasoning process.

ONE way to figure out what is going on is to do the 3-year-old thing: Just keep asking "why"? (Do that to your parents enough and you can drive them crazy.)

So let's look at one of the USA's clusterfucks: Afghanistan. WHY the fuck ar we in Afghanistan? You know that the USA actually involved itself in Afghanistan under Jimmy Carter, right? We armed Pashtun warlords and wahhabi terrorists (including Osama bin Laden himself) to drive out the Soviets, but ... why? Because "Soviet Union"? But, so what? Does Afghanistan have some strategic resource, like tantalum or cobalt that we MUST have for our modern industries or military? Does it control a strategic trade route like the Straits of Hormuz or the Suez Canal? Frankly, what does the USA get out of trying to control ... or prevent other nations from controlling ... a poor benighted nation of goatfuckers and Allah-worshippers? More specifically, what would YOU get out of Afghanistan? What would you be deprived of if someone else controlled it?

And having meddled once, and turned Afghanistan into a stone-age failed state, we went and invaded AGAIN.
WHY??

It's a puzzle, like Vietnam: we brought neither freedom nor prosperity to the Afghanis. Instead, we created a failed state crawling with backward-looking warlords, religious zealots and a corrupt western-facing elite.

At this point, the only groups that are getting anything out of Afghanistan are the NGOs that maintain fine buildings on Embassy Row in Kabul, and the CIA which manages to skim a lot of money off of the illegal opium production so they can fund their equally-illegal operations.

I can see that CHINA might have a trade-route interest in Afghanistan, running a belt-and-road route thru western China (Xinjiang) thru Afghanistan and Pakistan, but THUGR ... and by extension, the average American ... gets nothing.

And yet, we insist on keeping our troops there, decade after decade.
WHY??

Misguided hubris? Can't admit a mistake, throwing good money ... and good lives ... after bad? Is there any answer out there that makes sense? Because to this day, Afghanistan looks like Vietnam: a purposeless quamire for American lives and money.

*****

So, what about RUSSIA? What do we get out of attempting to cordon off Russia? Is there a compelling interest in sucking the former Soviet satellites into western economies and NATO? More specifically, what does THUGR get out of our occupation of the former Yuoslavia? Does Albania control important trade routes? Does Bosnia have such an important strategic resource that we must wrest control of it? Does Moldova have such a large deposit of oil or gas that it becomes vitally important to prevent Russia from controlling it? Is Chechnya a vital piece of our financial puzzle? Why are we there? What are we getting out of it?
Anything?

We stick our nose into so many nations around the globe, causing destruction, poverty and oppression (especially when we support terrorists, whether they're rightwing death squads in S America or jihadi terrorists in the Middle East) that it seems that we are causing THUGR more harm than good: wasting American lives and his money on pointless adventures abroad. SOMEbody is getting SOMEthing from it, but it isn't THUGR. Or WISHY. Or SECOND, or SIX, or SIGNY, or REAVERBOT, or JO, or KIKI, or JSF or WHOZIT, or any of the other posters past or present on fff.net. There's no ROI for us there, as far as I can tell.

But if you can come up with a good reason for us to be everywhere, all the time, let me know!




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Thursday, December 24, 2020 1:37 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just one final note.

The United States is a continent-sized nation. We occupy the most productive part of the N American continent, "from sea to shining sea". We are replete with resources. We don't have EVERYTHING to sustain modern production- we don't have tantalum (Africa) or cobalt (Africa) or titanium (Russia) or even cheaply-extractable oil (anymore) but we have farmland and forests and fisheries and iron and most of the rest of the necessary minerals and ores, including lithium (near Trona) that we could create a nearly self-sufficient economy, if we used our resources wisely, and we could trade on fair terms for the rest. We don't physically NEED to be dominating other nations. I have great faith in America's resources.

But that only works if the Sam Waltons and the Elon Musks and the Tim Cooks and the Jamie Diamons ... and the other elites you don't even know about ... DON'T get mega-rich. CAN'T afford a coterie of bought-and-paid-for politicians. That means the MIC GOES AWAY, and the DoD is reduced to it's original mission: defending the borders of the USA and (if necessary) convoying our trade ships with military protection thru potentially hostile waters and protecting those bits of American land abroad: Our Embassies. That means the leeches who are sucking up the wealth of America ... AND THAT INCLUDES CHINA ... are scraped off.

THUGR, YOU don't get anything out of us putting our bootprints all over the world, and neiher does WISHY, JO, SIX, KIKI, REAVERBOT, JSF, SECOND, or anyone else on the board, including me.

WHAT ARE OUR REAL INTERESTS?

IMHO it is an economy that is as self-sufficient and sustainable as possible, meaningful work at a living wage for everyone who can work (even if that means reducing the size of our farms and rolling back some automation), environmental protection, health care for everyone, etc. Equal opportunities for all. Safe place to sleep. Healthful food to eat. Will it be "competitive"?

NO, BUT SO WHAT?

If we can produce almost everything we need, why do we need to "compete"? Unlike many small nations that lack resources (Japan, Cuba, Moldova) or even large nations that lack critical resources (China) we don't NEED anyone else. Only the elties do, and that's only because they want maximal profit.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Thursday, December 24, 2020 1:42 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If your vision for the USA is different than mine, I would love to discuss.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, February 9, 2021 6:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Inroads have been made into deepfake propaganda usability, by rendering detection software useless.

Deepfake detectors can be defeated, computer scientists show for the first time
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2021-02/uoc--ddc020821.php


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Friday, August 12, 2022 7:59 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


‘Sounds about Right’: Ex-CIA Chief Michael Hayden Implies Trump Should Be Executed for Taking Classified Docs

https://news.yahoo.com/sounds-ex-cia-chief-michael-194411070.html

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Friday, August 12, 2022 8:09 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
‘Sounds about Right’: Ex-CIA Chief Michael Hayden Implies Trump Should Be Executed for Taking Classified Docs

https://news.yahoo.com/sounds-ex-cia-chief-michael-194411070.html



What classified docs?

Pretty stupid thing for a spook to say.

I think maybe Trump needs to put shutting down the CIA first on his list when he's sworn in.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Sunday, February 26, 2023 9:16 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


C I Gay homosexual mafia Director Burns: Iran hasn't yet decided to resume nuclear weaponization

https://www.yahoo.com/now/cia-director-burns-iran-hasnt-220127985.html

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Pretty stupid thing for a spook to say.



and this one

smart or stupid

Former CIA Director says it'd be 'impulsive' to try to shoot down China's spy balloon
https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-cia-director-impulsive-shoot-down-c
hinas-spy-balloon-2023-2

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Friday, July 21, 2023 5:03 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Will Hurd on why he's joining crowded GOP field of presidential candidates
"Donald Trump is a threat to our national security," the former Texas congressman tells "The View"
https://au.yahoo.com/news/hurd-why-hes-joining-crowded-130543553.html

Longshot GOP 2024 hopeful Will Hurd calls Trump a 'threat to our national security'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12316375/Longshot-GOP-2024-ho
peful-Hurd-calls-Trump-threat-national-security-says-taken-Republican-primary.html


Will Hurd reiterates 2020 election was not stolen, calls Trump a 'national security' threat

Following a nine-year stint with the CIA, Hurd ran for Congress in 2010 and was defeated in a runoff primary. Hurd ran for Congress again in 2014 and was successful. The district stretched approximately 550 miles (890 km) from San Antonio to El Paso along the U.S.- illegal immigrant sex trafficker drug running Mexican border.

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