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Bob Woodward’s New Book, ‘Fear’

POSTED BY: THG
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 20:14
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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 2:39 PM

THG


The Wildest Things About Trump From Bob Woodward’s New Book, ‘Fear’

The veteran journalist’s new book says Trump’s behavior is similar to former President Richard Nixon’s during his final days in office.


John Dowd, Trump’s lead attorney with the Russia probe, led a practice session for Trump’s potential testimony with special counsel Robert Mueller, who is investigating possible Russian interference in the 2016 election. According to the book, the president stumbled, contradicted himself and lied so much during the practice session that he eventually lost his cool, ranting, “This thing’s a goddamn hoax,” before deciding, “I don’t really want to testify.”

After Trump said “both sides” at the Charlottesville white supremacist rally were to blame for the violence that occurred in August 2017, advisers urged him to make another speech condemning white supremacists and neo-Nazis. According to Woodward, he almost immediately told aides, “That was the biggest fucking mistake I’ve made” and the “worst speech I’ve ever given.”

Woodward also compared Trump’s paranoia about the Russia investigation as very similar to former President Richard Nixon’s final days as president. According to sources, the president was angered by Mueller’s appointment, saying “Everybody’s trying to get me.”

During a dinner with various military leaders including Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Trump falsely suggested Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) cowardly took advantage of his father’s military rank to get early release from a prisoner-of-war camp in Vietnam. When Mattis corrected his boss, Trump just replied, “Oh, okay.”

Trump reportedly mocked Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ accent, saying, “This guy is mentally retarded. He’s this dumb Southerner. … He couldn’t even be a one-person country lawyer down in Alabama.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-bob-woodward-fear_us
_5b8ea3fae4b0511db3dc8956


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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 3:04 PM

THG




Report: Trump said condemning white supremacists was his 'biggest' mistake

President Trump reportedly thinks condemning white supremacists after the deadly 2017 rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, was the "biggest f---ing mistake" he's made as president, Bob Woodward's forthcoming book Fear reports. Trump had said that "both sides" caused violence that led to one counterprotester's death, drawing contempt from Chief of Staff John Kelly and resignation threat from former National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn, per excerpts from Fear published Tuesday by The Washington Post. Trump has also called Attorney General Jeff Sessions "mentally retarded" and declared he wanted to "f---ing kill" Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, per Woodward's reporting, while Kelly has reportedly declared Trump to be an "idiot" in charge of a White House dubbed "Crazytown."

http://theweek.com/5things/793997/report-trump-said-condemning-white-s
upremacists-biggest-mistake


T

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 3:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Saddam has WMD!!! Be afraid!! Be very afraid!!!

Or, employ a little bit of skepticism. A book filled with gossip, released two months before the elections? Gee, whooda thunk?

Personally, I'd ignore everything that was anonymously sourced, and only pay attention to statements with names attached. At least you can follow up with that.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 3:26 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or, employ a little bit of skepticism. A book filled with gossip, released two months before the elections? Gee, whooda thunk?



Skepticism is always a good idea with publishing. I disagree with your using the term "gossip" though. Sure, there are no rules but to me gossip implies 'hearing about something that happened from someone else', i.e. you weren't there yourself. Woodward was there for direct comments form the people quoted in the book, it wasn't third hand. Besides, so many of the comments fit with what most of us already know about the president: he's a f*cking moron and unhinged, so what's new?

2 months before the election? Why not two weeks?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Personally, I'd ignore everything that was anonymously sourced, and only pay attention to statements with names attached. At least you can follow up with that.



If the president can use anon sources then why can't the press?

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 4:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

If the president can use anon sources then why can't the press?
He does? I guess I pay so little attention that I don't even know when it happened.

Gossip: Somebody (Woodward) said that somebody (anonymous) said.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 4:38 PM

THG


The problem sig has is what Woodward writes is not anonymously sourced.

T


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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 4:45 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

If the president can use anon sources then why can't the press?
He does? I guess I pay so little attention that I don't even know when it happened.

Gossip: Somebody (Woodward) said that somebody (anonymous) said.

Is it gossip if Trump does it in writing? Yesterday?

The president of the United States — the country’s chief law-enforcement officer — is berating his own Attorney General for bringing criminal charges against two Republicans. There’s no question that the indictments against Reps. Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins were entirely proper: the evidence against both men was significant and the allegations against them were serious. And yet Trump seems to think they shouldn’t have been charged because it hurts Republican chances of keeping control of the House. Note that there is no attempt at subtlety here. He just flat-out thinks a Republican attorney general shouldn’t bring criminal cases against Republican members of Congress if it might hurt the Republican Party.

And Trump had more "gossip" to go, where Trump tweets out some top secrets yesterday, at www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/09/three-tweets/

"However, Donald Trump — because he’s too dumb to realize what he’s done — has now tweeted out a story that tells the truth for everyone to read. What an idiot."

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 5:00 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Saddam has WMD!!! Be afraid!! Be very afraid!!!

“Let’s fucking kill him! Let’s go in. Let’s kill the fucking lot of them,” Trump told Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, referring to Assad and his forces. After hanging up with Trump, according to Woodward, the secretary told one of his senior staffers: “We’re not going to do any of that. We’re going to be much more measured.”

Mattis’s more restrained response is what Trump ultimately authorized. But it’s completely possible that without Mattis’s intervention, the US would’ve launched a larger-scale strike to try to kill Assad. That would certainly have angered Assad’s main backer, Russia, and may have led to a broader Washington-Moscow confrontation.

So Trump is apparently fine with assassinating foreign leaders — at least in theory. That’s quite an insight into how Trump wants to use his military.

Perhaps that should be expected: In 2011, Trump said that Obama should kill Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi, then take payment in oil from grateful Libyans. Kill for Oil.

“Now we should go in, we should stop this guy, which would be very easy and very quick,” Trump said in a video blog. “We should do on a humanitarian basis, immediately go into Libya, knock this guy out ... and save the lives.”
www.buzzfeednews.com/article/andrewkaczynski/trump-says-removing-gadda
fi-was-mistake-but-pushed-for-libya#.feeoQykrD


www.vox.com/2018/9/4/17819298/woodward-book-fear-trump-north-korea-mat
tis-syria-assad


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 5:25 PM

WHOZIT


ANOTHER Trump trashing book, they should have a section at book stores just for them.

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 5:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I don't follow Twitter and so I don't really pay attention to Trump tweets.
Quote:

Is it gossip if Trump does it in writing? Yesterday? The president of the United States — the country’s chief law-enforcement officer — is berating his own Attorney General for bringing criminal charges against two Republicans.
But I have noticed something interesting about the Trump WH ... if Trump says you're a great guy (or gal) you're probably about to be fired. So what does it mean if Trump constantly gripes about you? Because, for all the tweets ... Sessions is still in place, isn't he?
:shrug:



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 5:49 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't follow Twitter and so I don't really pay attention to Trump tweets.
Quote:

Is it gossip if Trump does it in writing? Yesterday? The president of the United States — the country’s chief law-enforcement officer — is berating his own Attorney General for bringing criminal charges against two Republicans.
But I have noticed something interesting about the Trump WH ... if Trump says you're a great guy (or gal) you're probably about to be fired. So what does it mean if Trump constantly gripes about you? Because, for all the tweets ... Sessions is still in place, isn't he?
:shrug:

The entire point was that Trump does NOT want the law enforced against Republicans. Trump expected that Sessions' understanding of the law was the same as Trump's law: DO NOT CHARGE REPUBLICANS. That "law" only proves Trump is ignorant. Where will Trump find a replacement for Sessions? It would have to be somebody who believed his job was to not charge Republicans. Somebody who believed that probably would not be confirmed by the Senate, especially if Sessions was asked to testify why he was fired.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 9:44 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Where's Bernstein? Did they break up like Cheech and Chong did?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The entire point was that Trump does NOT want the law enforced against Republicans.
The entire point is that IF Trump's supposed dislike of Sessions is one giant head-fake, why should I not wonder if Trump's criticism of the indictments is ALSO a giant head-fake?

I'm holding my judgment in abeyance. There are two narratives out there, both of them sound equally preposterous. The first is that Trump is a brain-dead stooge who would have never made it into the WH without Russian help ("help" to date seems pretty paltry and ineffectual.) That the Russians have some sort of "dirt" on Trump ... something about getting peed on by hookers ... which is worse that what Trump has already been accused of?

The second narrative is that Trump is a preternaturally devious mastermind, who has cooked up an entire scheme to bring down the deep state and its M$M partners, and that he's accomplished this partly by appearing to be imbecilic and irrational. I would think that the second version is completely out of the question except that I then recall the VERY long list of DOJ and FBI officers who've been fired, demoted, or resigned. So somebody somewhere must be doing SOMEthing to drain the swamp ...



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 9:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I'm holding my judgment in abeyance. There are two narratives out there, both of them sound equally preposterous.

There is a third narrative out there: Trump is imperious, impatient and immature, a King Baby of presidents, a man who is incapable of rising to the demands of the most important job on earth.

Trump makes the case against himself at
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/5/17819008/donald-trump-impeach
ment-sessions-kavanaugh-woodward

"It is a strange truism of this White House that the most damning, unanswerable, unforgettable revelations come from President Trump himself."

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:03 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The entire point is that IF Trump's supposed dislike of Sessions is one giant head-fake, why should I not wonder if Trump's criticism of the indictments is ALSO a giant head-fake?



It's pretty standard Trump tactics to use bullying and berating to INFLUENCE people - in this case, to INFLUENCE Sessions to end the Mueller investigation and protect pro-Trump anyone.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm holding my judgment in abeyance. There are two narratives out there, both of them sound equally preposterous. The first is that Trump is a brain-dead stooge who would have never made it into the WH without Russian help ("help" to date seems pretty paltry and ineffectual.) That the Russians have some sort of "dirt" on Trump ... something about getting peed on by hookers ... which is worse that what Trump has already been accused of?



No one cares about the hookers' stuff for the very reason you mentioned (he's already admitted to similar) unless you're trying to sell questionable books OR trying to undercut the Dossier = Republicans.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The second narrative is that Trump is a preternaturally devious mastermind, who has cooked up an entire scheme to bring down the deep state and its M$M partners, and that he's accomplished this partly by appearing to be imbecilic and irrational. I would think that the second version is completely out of the question except that I then recall the VERY long list of DOJ and FBI officers who've been fired, demoted, or resigned. So somebody somewhere must be doing SOMEthing to drain the swamp ...



Being fired or demoted or resigning does not make someone guilty of any crimes does it? Actual real criminal activity seems to be the sole specialty of Trump's campaign gang.

And yes, someone somewhere is draining the swamp - Mueller.

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

There is a third narrative out there: Trump is imperious, impatient and immature, a King Baby of presidents, a man who is incapable of rising to the demands of the most important job on earth.- SECOND
And a fourth narrative: Trump's intolerance for The Way Things Are Done In DC is exactly what is needed to drain the swamp.

We can probably ping-pong these ideas around forever, but I long ago decided to not pay attention to what politicians SAY (not even on Twitter!) and instead pay attention to what politicians DO (and, the follow-on effect that their actions have).

*****
FOR EXAMPLE (This is about Obama, so if you don't want to read it just skip this para) despite all of Obama's blah-nlah-blah, he continued throwing money at big banks, and was a friend of big corporations and globalists and did nothing to reverse the increasing wealth gap. Despite his talk about the most transparent government ever, he prosecuted more whistleblowers than all previous Presidents COMBINED and ramped up surveillance to near-universality (until he was outed). And altho he voted against the Iraq War (one of the reasons that I voted for him over Hillary in 2008) he still believed in interfering everywhere, just more cheaply, using the CIA, NGOs, spec ops, proxies, and mercs. Yanno, "leading from behind".
*****

So I look at Trump, and so far he hasn't started any new wars ... which is a big change from the previous five Presidents and a giant plus. He backed out of the TTP and TTIP, also a giant plus, since our regulatory decisions remain in the hands (and courts) of our local and national governments. He's more successful at controlling/discouraging illegal immigration than previous Presidents, also a big plus. He seems to be draining deep state actors (unelected officials who defy democratic control) within the FBI and DOJ, one person at a time, which is a good thing but there is still a lot more to go. So far the CIA, NSA, and Pentagon remain untouched. (But, as I think about it, his habit of hiring and firing people from the WH might be another way of taking people out of power. All of that "churn" may have a purpose.) And he's causing the M$M to discredit itself. He is TRYING to set the stage for the re-industrialization of the United States, which I think is extremely important for both national security AND economic resilience, and reduce our "entanglements" abroad which put a huge financial burden on the USA economy and which disadvantage us relative to Germany, Japan, and S Korea.

On the other hand, he increased the Federal deficit tremendously (altho it's already so high as to be unpayable), will set up a socially-conservative Supreme Court, is trashing our environmental regulations, and defunding government welfare/assistance programs.

His record on achieving peace with N Korea and in the Mideast (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iran, Palestine) in yet to be written.

Of all of the negatives that I perceive with the Trump administration, only one (Supreme Court) is irreversible in the medium term. (And THAT can be countered by Congress writing better legislation.)

There is life beyond Trump.

So far, he's creating a better situation than when he arrived in office. The next term President (whether that's him or someone else) will have a much better platform from which to act.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 11:28 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

There is life beyond Trump.

So far, he's creating a better situation than when he arrived in office. The next term President (whether that's him or someone else) will have a much better platform from which to act.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

White House touts 52 ‘accomplishments'

Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion dollars poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.

As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.

Opened ANWR & Approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.

Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.

Increased our coal exports by 60%; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.

Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.

Canceled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.

Secured record $700 billion dollars in military funding; $716 billion next year.

Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the armed forces.

Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.

Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch; Nominated Judge Brett Kavanagh.

Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.

Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.

Issued executive order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.

We have begun BUILDING THE WALL. Republicans want STRONG BORDERS and NO CRIME. Democrats want OPEN BORDERS which equals MASSIVE CRIME.

More at www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/list-white-house-touts-5
3-accomplishments-woodward-ignored


or

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-woodward-trump-book-fab
ricated


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 11:33 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Where's Bernstein? Did they break up like Cheech and Chong did?

Do Right, Be Right. :)



Wow, you really are totally culturally uneducated. It's mind blowing. You must be living under a rock. Your post goes a long way in explaining why all your opinions and beliefs come from a place of ignorance.

Add to that your admittance that you don't source information because you see everyone as lying. That you read something here and then formulate a opinion based on well, nothin from nothin equals nothin.


T


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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 11:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


How about responding to my post, SECOND, instead of once again splattering the board with second-hand opinions? Many of the points that you quoted I consider to be temporary, so whether you (or I) think that they're positive or negative it pretty pointless.

For example:

Quote:

Increased our coal exports by 60%
could be reversed with changing market forces while
Quote:

U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high
fracking, so capital-intensive, is completely dependent on low interest rates and would collapse with higher rates, while
Quote:

Issued executive order to keep open Guantanamo Bay
is taking credit for Congress' stalling Gitmo's closure under Obama. (if it was closed already, Trump wouldn't be able to "keep" it open).

Higher military spending? Can be undone by Congress. Space Force? Small potatoes, funding-wise (plus, the Air Force wants to keep space programs under its wing, so to speak. You might not see a lot of development on this.) Withdrew from Paris Climate Accord but was able to keep regulatory decisions "at home", so once the regulatory climate changes (so to speak) the USA will be free to adopt its own approach (which might otherwise conflict with transnationals' "normal and expected profits"). Backing out of the Iran deal ... there was something hinky going on with the original deal. I'm still trying to puzzle that one out, but I think Trump should have stayed in.

HOWEVER, what I find interesting is that Trump is pissing off the Europeans so badly that they might actually set up their own SWIFT and military; not a bad thing for the USA, I think.

Being able to set up a cohort of conservative judges is important and difficult to reverse.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 11:40 AM

THG


Trumps nothing but a whack job. Those who continue to support his lunacy and corrupt ways only expose themselves to be loonies as well.

I have news for them. As he crashes and burns so do they. Although they've already lost all credibility as being factual or truthful and of sound mind, Trump going down will be the icing on the cake as far as sealing the deal on their intelligence, or lack thereof.

T


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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 11:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Trumps nothing but a whack job. Those who continue to support his lunacy and corrupt ways only expose themselves to be loonies as well.

I have news for them. As he crashes and burns so do they. Although they've already lost all credibility as being factual or truthful and of sound mind, Trump going down will be the icing on the cake as far as sealing the deal on their intelligence, or lack thereof.

Well, we shall see what we shall see. I gave Obama a year to prove himself (which is why I voted for Jill Stein after his first term). I voted against Bush from the very start. Bill had a year too, I believe I voted for Ralph Nader for Bill's second term. I tend to give Democrats the benefit of the doubt, but last election I had no doubt at all about Hillary and so I voted for Trump.

So far, Trump is keeping his campaign promises. Some of them are ill-advised, some of them are necessary for the USA. Possibly everything terrible said about Trump is true, but I'm a "results" person. So waiting to see the net result.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 12:18 PM

THG


What sig doesn't want to admit to is that many of Trumps promises were ill-conceived in the first place. Not good ideas at all. Another thing sig won't admit to, is that Trumps ignorance of the issues is visible and he is doing more harm than good. He's just fucking things up.

Here's a promise he made that is a prime example of his bullshit. He said he would take no vacations while he was president.


T


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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 12:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
What sig doesn't want to admit to is that many of Trumps promises were ill-conceived in the first place. Not good ideas at all.

Is reading with comprehension not your "thing" What did i just post, THUGR??? here, let me quote it for you ...

Quote:

Some of them are ill-advised, some of them are necessary for the USA.
You really should stop arguing with the voices in your head; things will go a LOT better if you do!

Quote:

Another thing sig won't admit to, is that Trumps ignorance of the issues is visible and he is doing more harm than good. He's just fucking things up.
It's entirely possible that he understands "the issues" just fine, but disagrees completely with the "business as usual" solutions.

Now, I'm not defending Trump. I'm withholding judgment. The Q-anon crowd are promising some big reveal "any day now"; they have until the end of Trump's first term to make good on their promises. Until then, I'll be evaluating the effects of Trump's first term in office.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 1:30 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So far, Trump is keeping his campaign promises. Some of them are ill-advised, some of them are necessary for the USA. Possibly everything terrible said about Trump is true, but I'm a "results" person. So waiting to see the net result.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

The "result" can all be credited to the GOP, not to Trump. Pence could step in to the Presidency and get the same results. Trump lawyer Dowd’s account of a disastrous practice interview confirms our suspicions that Trump literally cannot tell the truth: “I’m not going to sit there and let him look like an idiot. And you publish that transcript, because everything leaks in Washington, and the guys overseas are going to say, ‘I told you he was an idiot. I told you he was a goddamn dumbbell. What are we dealing with this idiot for?'”

This is a president who cannot distinguish lies from truth (and cannot speak without lying). His lies are coming at a faster clip, and the inability to rely on anything he says is potentially paralyzing for Congress, America’s allies and the military. His statements concerning the Russia investigation, we know, are chock-full of lies (e.g., bugging Trump Tower, a spy “planted” on his campaign).

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 2:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So far, Trump is keeping his campaign promises. Some of them are ill-advised, some of them are necessary for the USA. Possibly everything terrible said about Trump is true, but I'm a "results" person. So waiting to see the net result. - SIGNY

The "result" can all be credited to the GOP, not to Trump. - SECOND

Not true. As far as the TPP and the TTIP are concerned, it was Obama and Congressional GOP who were FOR the free trade agreements, Trump was against them.
https://washingtonsblog.com/2016/03/obama-congressional-republicans-in
tend-pass-tpp-law.html


Establishment Republicans are against tariffs, Trump is for them.

Making nice with Russia? Trump is experiencing a lot of pushback from neocons of BOTH parties... another conflict with the GOP.

The GOP seems conflicted about illegal immigration, seeing as they can't seem to pass a reform bill - even tho they have majorities in both houses.

There are policies where Trump and the GOP are on the same page, such as tax cuts and conservative social agenda, but many important places where they aren't. Trump isn't really a Republican, altho he ran on the Republican ticket. His goals are from the entire political spectrum.

Quote:

This is a president who cannot distinguish lies from truth (and cannot speak without lying).
Trump made certain campaign promises, and he's doing more to fulfill them than any other President that I can recall. OTOH, he speaks VERY imprecisely and often only approximates the truth: For example, while Trump Tower was not TECHNICALLY "wiretapped" ... or at least the alphabet agencies aren't willing to admit to it ... it's clear that his campaign WAS being intensely spied on. There are a lot of other examples of the same. He's also prone to exaggerating ridiculous things. Plus, I swear to god, he deliberately feeds misinformation to/trolls the M$M. So overall, I don't pay much attention to what he SAYS. Or, what people say "about" him. What I need to look at are results.

I don't expect a President to be able to make much headway in his first term. The effects of some "accomplishments", like the pro-bank/financial sector/speculation, pro-intellectual property, and pro-free trade laws that Clinton signed, or the crazy-assed deficit spending/pro-wealthy tax cuts that Bush signed, may not show up for six years or more. I know that the implications of the "Commodities Futures Trading Modernization Act" went right by me. But one SHOULD be able to get a view of the trends being established in term one. Right now, the Trump administration is cloaked in unpredictability. Whether this is deliberate or a result of a confused President is anyone's guess, so I'm waiting for definitive results to become evident.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 5:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Random headlines:

Secretary Mattis fires back at claims in Woodward's book

Kelly Denies Woodward Book 'Fear' Claim He Called Trump Idiot

Ex-Trump lawyer John Dowd disputes details in Bob Woodward book


"Former George W. Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer ... added: "Anonymous sources have looser lips and may take liberties. But Woodward always plays it straight. Someone told it to him.""

So quoting anonymous sources who make things up makes it 'true', eh Ari?








THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The TOP COMMENT to this op-ed is ...
Quote:

But the deep state is just a conspiracy theory!


Quote:

The Times prefaces the piece with this disclaimer:

The Times today is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure. We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers. We invite you to submit a question about the essay or our vetting process here.

A senior White House official has published an anonymous op-ed in the New York Times titled:

I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration (I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

Worst? Like ... what?

Quote:

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions

The FBI? The CIA? The NSA?
Quote:

while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people.

Huh. So establishment Republicans don't like Trump because he's against ...

"...free minds" I have no idea what a "free mind" is, or how Trump is against that. Bloviation, perhaps.

"...free markets" Well, yes, he's against free trade. That much is clear, and that's why some people voted for him

"... free people" Again, what does this mean? Does this person think that Trump should be "freeing" people all around the world? Hard to tell. But knowing conservative Republicans, I suspect that to them free minds = free markets, and free people = free markets, so this is probably really all about free trade.

Quote:

At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,”

It is. It IS, however, a child of the corporations and the bosom-buddy of the alphabet agencies
Quote:

President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade
Yes
Quote:

and anti-democratic.
How so? The author has made this claim 2.5 times by now, with not even one example.

Quote:

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.
Typical establishment GOP goals.

Quote:

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

Examples would be nice.

Quote:

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults conservative GOPers and deep-staters in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Oh, dear. How awful.

Quote:

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track
And that is why you're called the deep state
Quote:

, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.
Yes, it's called the deep state. Thank you for outing yourselves!


Quote:

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain.
Because, of course, the evidence is compelling that's what happened. (bwahahahaha!)
Quote:

He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.
And that is why you're the deep state.
Quote:

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state.
yes, it is.
Quote:

It’s the work of the steady state.
Yes, the deep state. The unelected officials who want to keep things the way they are, with Russia as the bogeyman, the globalists in charge, and the deep state doing their bidding.

Quote:

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right-wing direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Not me, dude. Others here, tho ...

Quote:

Senator John McCain
I find it reflective that this so-called "resistance" would quote an inveterate warmonger and sometime war criminal as a "good example" to follow
Quote:

put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue.

I just threw up in my mouth ...
Quote:

Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.
Again.

Quote:

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country ideology first.

But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.

At last- something that I can agree with.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:35 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


I haven't decided whether that op-ed is genuine or not, who the audience is suppose to be, what it's purpose is short term or long term. It has a phony ring to it often but that could just be poor writing skills. Is it Pence as some have suggested, trying to save his future, seeing the way the world is swaying? Don McGahn? I bet we'll know soon enough.


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Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I haven't decided whether that op-ed is genuine or not, who the audience is suppose to be, what it's purpose is short term or long term. It has a phony ring to it often but that could just be poor writing skills. Is it Pence as some have suggested, trying to save his future, seeing the way the world is swaying? Don McGahn? I bet we'll know soon enough.


You could certainly decide that Trump is more than half crazy. He is never calm : Trump responded by questioning whether the anonymous senior White House official even existed, tweeting: "Does the so-called 'Senior Administration Official' really exist, or is it just the Failing New York Times with another phony source? If the GUTLESS anonymous person does indeed exist, the Times must, for National Security purposes, turn him/her over to government at once!"

www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/06/fox-news-first-trump-wants-white-house-o
fficial-behind-ny-times-op-ed-ided-doj-targets-conservative-censorship.html


In a previous tweet, Trump wrote "TREASON?" The top comment was "No, "TREASON" is when you conspire with a foreign country to rig an election in your favor..."
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1037464177269514240

Maybe Trump's lawyers will tell him that the mystery editorial writer cannot be executed for TREASON on a President's orders. If Trump does have the execution order typed and ready for his signature, maybe somebody will steal it off Trump's desk. Soon enough he will forget all about it in the dizzying swirl of chaos spinning around in the Oval Office.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:28 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Jimmy Kimmel noted that the anonymous op-ed arrived at nearly the exact same moment as Bob Woodward’s new book, Fear: Trump in the White House, which the president has been deriding as “total fiction.”

“He’s doing a really good job of plugging this book he thinks is total fiction,” Kimmel said.

The host added about Trump: “That would be like, for instance, someone knowingly and falsely claiming the first African-American president was born in Kenya and was not an American, you know?”

www.thedailybeast.com/jimmy-kimmel-is-sure-mike-pence-wrote-anti-trump
-new-york-times-op-ed


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What's happening is the upcoming November elections. So now the DNC, the deep state, and the complicit M$M are firing all guns to ensure that a "blue wave" overtakes Congress so that Trump can be impeached, and so that the policies that the globalists favor (expanded "security state", "free trade", Russophobia/constant foreign intervention, increasing illegal immigration etc) can be re-instated.

CNN STOOD BY ITS "QUOTE" of Cohen's lawyer (that Trump knew of the meeting in Trump Tower ahead of time) only to have it go down in flames.

WOODWARD'S BOOK ISN'T HAVING THE IMPACT THEY WERE HOPING FOR. Too many "named" sources are disavowing their "quotes", and the rest of the book ... based on anonymous sources ... doesn't even make good toilet paper.

THE NEW YORK TIMES STANDS BY ITS ANONYMOUS EDITORIAL. They claim to know WHO wrote it, and that this person really is a "senior official", but the editorial seems to have BACKFIRED with some center and left media sources.

Quote:

Trump Saboteur Op-Ed Backfires: LA Times Calls "A Coward"; Greenwald: "Unelected Cabal"

An op-ed written in the New York Times by an anonymous "senior official in the Trump administration" has drawn harsh rebuke from both sides of the aisle and beyond - after everyone from President Trump to Glenn Greenwald to the Los Angeles Times chimed in with various criticisms.

The author, who claims to be actively working against Trump in collusion conspiracy with other senior officials in what they call a "resistance inside the Trump administration," has now been labeled everything from a coward, to treasonous, to nonexistent.

Trump supporters, also as expected, slammed the op-ed as either pure fiction or treason - a suggestion Trump made earlier Wednesday. What we don't imagine the anonymous author or the Times saw coming was the onslaught of criticism coming from the center and left - those who stand to benefit the most from Trump's fall from grace, or at least probably wouldn't mind it.

In an op-ed which appeared hours after the NYT piece, Jessica Roy of the Los Angeles Times writes:

"No, anonymous Trump official, you're not 'part of the resistance.' You're a coward" for not going far enough to stop Trump and in fact enabling him.

If they really believe there's a need to subvert the president to protect the country, they should be getting this person out of the White House. But they're too cowardly and afraid of the possible implications. They hand-wave the notion thusly:

“Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis."

How is it that utilizing the 25th Amendment of the Constitution would cause a crisis, but admitting to subverting a democratically elected leader wouldn't?

If you're reading this, senior White House official, know this: You are not resisting Donald Trump. You are enabling him for your own benefit. That doesn't make you an unsung hero. It makes you a coward. -LA Times


Meanwhile, Glenn Greenwald - the Pulitzer Prize Winning co-founder of The Intercept, also called the author of the op-ed a "coward" whose ideological issues "voters didn't ratify." Greenwald continues;

"The irony in the op-ed from the NYT's anonymous WH coward is glaring and massive: s/he accuses Trump of being "anti-democratic" while boasting of membership in an unelected cabal that covertly imposes their own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-06/one-word-has-people-convince
d-mike-pence-authored-scathing-nyt-op-ed


So if this creates a backlash, how will the NYT ... and its true believers ... walk back this editorial? Given that the NYT has staked its reputation on this anonymous editorial, there are only a few possibilities

1) The NYT received an editorial but didn't do it's due diligence, and didn't confirm the presumed source, or

2) The editorial WAS written by WH "senior staff", who outed himself as part of a conspiracy which is imposing its unelected ideology on America or,

3) The editorial was written by WH "senior staff" as part of a WH disinformation campaign.

None of these are pretty alternatives. But I'm sure that those who "trust" the M$M will somehow manage to overlook the implications of all of these "gaffes", including this last one, and bury them deeply in their memory-hole.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 11:02 AM

THG


The choice is to believe comrade sig and her fake news sources, along with comrades ikik, jack and jsf, or to people who've been honorably serving this country for decades. That includes believing what the main stream media is reporting. It's an easy choice for me because I live in the world of reality.
T




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Thursday, September 6, 2018 11:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

1) The NYT received an editorial but didn't do it's due diligence, and didn't confirm the presumed source, or

2) The editorial WAS written by WH "senior staff", who outed himself as part of a conspiracy which is imposing its unelected ideology on America or,

3) The editorial was written by WH "senior staff" as part of a WH disinformation campaign.

None of these are pretty alternatives. But I'm sure that those who "trust" the M$M will somehow manage to overlook the implications of all of these "gaffes", including this last one, and bury them deeply in their memory-hole.

Signym, you are lying, again in Trump's service. The editorial writer's identity is known to the NYTimes, just not to Trump. Your panicky writing about conspiracies changes nothing, but you and Trump really have no worries. The Democrats will never get 67 Senators, which means Trump is safe. The Democrats might not break 51% in the House, which means Trump won't even be talked mean about in Congress. But Trump has extremely delicate skin. Mean talk makes him break out in a rash.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-midterm-election-forecast/ho
use
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 11:06 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I haven't decided whether that op-ed is genuine or not, who the audience is suppose to be, what it's purpose is short term or long term. It has a phony ring to it often but that could just be poor writing skills. Is it Pence as some have suggested, trying to save his future, seeing the way the world is swaying? Don McGahn? I bet we'll know soon enough.




It's been said the Times knows who the source is. If that's true then what is being reported is as well and this comes from a senior advisor to the president.

Can you hear the clock ticking? I can...

T


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Thursday, September 6, 2018 11:20 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I haven't decided whether that op-ed is genuine or not, who the audience is suppose to be, what it's purpose is short term or long term. It has a phony ring to it often but that could just be poor writing skills. Is it Pence as some have suggested, trying to save his future, seeing the way the world is swaying? Don McGahn? I bet we'll know soon enough.




It's been said the Times knows who the source is. If that's true then what is being reported is as well and this comes from a senior advisor to the president.

Can you hear the clock ticking? I can...

T


I don't think any editorial will harm Trump in the slightest. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me." Trump could harm himself with voters if he does something violently stupid to discover who the anonymous editorial writer is. Since his staff is not stupid, they won't do it. So Trump is safe from whatever idiotic scheme he dreams up for his staff to execute in learning anonymous's name.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 11:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Signym, you are lying, again in Trump's service. The editorial writer's identity is known to the NYTimes, just not to Trump. - SECOND
Then the author of the editorial just outed himself as part of a deep state conspiracy to impose on America an unelected ideology. Conspiracy to thwart a Presidency?? Isn't that something like treason?

Like I said, SECOND, none of the alternatives are pretty, and of all of them, this is the ugliest. I proposed the other two alternatives so as to give the both the author AND the NYT the benefit of the doubt.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 11:32 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I haven't decided whether that op-ed is genuine or not, who the audience is suppose to be, what it's purpose is short term or long term. It has a phony ring to it often but that could just be poor writing skills. Is it Pence as some have suggested, trying to save his future, seeing the way the world is swaying? Don McGahn? I bet we'll know soon enough.




It's been said the Times knows who the source is. If that's true then what is being reported is as well and this comes from a senior advisor to the president.

Can you hear the clock ticking? I can...

T


I don't think any editorial will harm Trump in the slightest. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me." Trump could harm himself with voters if he does something violently stupid to discover who the anonymous editorial writer is. Since his staff is not stupid, they won't do it. So Trump is safe from whatever idiotic scheme he dreams up for his staff to execute in learning anonymous's name.




Trump is cracking. He is realizing that the crimes he committed by colluding with the Russians for decades, helping them to money launder could destroy his businesses. Remember, Trump lives in dept. Those loans and debts could be called in.

Add to that the trouble his family is in. No, he's cracking. Lets also hope that the republicans see the writing on the wall and start to do the right thing when it comes to this country.

T


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Thursday, September 6, 2018 12:01 PM

THG


T



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Thursday, September 6, 2018 12:03 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
You could certainly decide that Trump is more than half crazy. He is never calm : Trump responded by questioning whether the anonymous senior White House official even existed, tweeting: "Does the so-called 'Senior Administration Official' really exist, or is it just the Failing New York Times with another phony source? If the GUTLESS anonymous person does indeed exist, the Times must, for National Security purposes, turn him/her over to government at once!"

Maybe Trump's lawyers will tell him that the mystery editorial writer cannot be executed for TREASON on a President's orders. If Trump does have the execution order typed and ready for his signature, maybe somebody will steal it off Trump's desk. Soon enough he will forget all about it in the dizzying swirl of chaos spinning around in the Oval Office.



I believe that Trump is crazier than most people realize, even those that follow his tweets and speeches and already think he's crazy. He's. Even. Crazier.
Timothy O'Brien, author of TrumpNation: The Art of Being the Donald, has said that when he sees reports of things "getting increasingly crazy" at the White House he has to laugh a bit. "He's always been that crazy and he always will be that crazy."

Tick Tock

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 12:21 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Saddam has WMD!!! Be afraid!! Be very afraid!!!

Or, employ a little bit of skepticism. A book filled with gossip, released two months before the elections? Gee, whooda thunk?

Personally, I'd ignore everything that was anonymously sourced, and only pay attention to statements with names attached. At least you can follow up with that.



T


An anonymous NYT op-ed, which the paper said was written by a senior administration official, asserted that appointees, serving at the highest levels of the Trump administration, have worked to 'thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.'


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Thursday, September 6, 2018 12:58 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

1) The NYT received an editorial but didn't do it's due diligence, and didn't confirm the presumed source, or

2) The editorial WAS written by WH "senior staff", who outed himself as part of a conspiracy which is imposing its unelected ideology on America or,

3) The editorial was written by WH "senior staff" as part of a WH disinformation campaign.

None of these are pretty alternatives. But I'm sure that those who "trust" the M$M will somehow manage to overlook the implications of all of these "gaffes", including this last one, and bury them deeply in their memory-hole.

Signym, you are lying, again in Trump's service. The editorial writer's identity is known to the NYTimes, just not to Trump. Your panicky writing about conspiracies changes nothing, but you and Trump really have no worries. The Democrats will never get 67 Senators, which means Trump is safe. The Democrats might not break 51% in the House, which means Trump won't even be talked mean about in Congress. But Trump has extremely delicate skin. Mean talk makes him break out in a rash.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-midterm-election-forecast/ho
use
/



T


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Thursday, September 6, 2018 1:04 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I guess I pay so little attention that I don't even know when it happened.

Gossip: Somebody (Woodward) said that somebody (anonymous) said.




T




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Thursday, September 6, 2018 1:39 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Signym, you are lying, again in Trump's service. The editorial writer's identity is known to the NYTimes, just not to Trump. - SECOND
Then the author of the editorial just outed himself as part of a deep state conspiracy to impose on America an unelected ideology. Conspiracy to thwart a Presidency?? Isn't that something like treason?

Like I said, SECOND, none of the alternatives are pretty, and of all of them, this is the ugliest. I proposed the other two alternatives so as to give the both the author AND the NYT the benefit of the doubt.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

If it is treason in Trump's opinion, in order to get the name of the anonymous editorial writer, I am all for Trump sending the entire editorial staff of the NY Times to Guantanamo. Torture them, Trump! Find out who that traitor is! (The GOP will be opposed, but why should Trump listen?)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 4:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It is not "treason" (aiding an enemy in a declared war) which is why I posted "something like treason". But I agree with Trumps sentiment. People voted for Trump because he said he would do certain things, and the deep state is busy subverting the will of the people by imposing a different agenda over a platform that people voted for.

Yanno, THUGR is always going on and on about our "democratic institutions" and yet seems to tolerate this rather large violation of the democratic process.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 5:28 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It is not "treason" (aiding an enemy in a declared war) which is why I posted "something like treason". But I agree with Trumps sentiment. People voted for Trump because he said he would do certain things, and the deep state is busy subverting the will of the people by imposing a different agenda over a platform that people voted for.

Yanno, THUGR is always going on and on about our "democratic institutions" and yet seems to tolerate this rather large violation of the democratic process.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

Signym, you might need to clarify what "the will of the people" means and exactly what this "platform that people voted for" means. That's because Trump was the minority candidate. And then there were 200,000,000 Americans that did not vote for anybody. What was the will of those people?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 5:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It is not "treason" (aiding an enemy in a declared war) which is why I posted "something like treason". But I agree with Trumps sentiment. People voted for Trump because he said he would do certain things, and the deep state is busy subverting the will of the people by imposing a different agenda over a platform that people voted for.

Yanno, THUGR is always going on and on about our "democratic institutions" and yet seems to tolerate this rather large violation of the democratic process. - SIGNY


Signym, you might need to clarify what "the will of the people" means and exactly what this "platform that people voted for" means. That's because Trump was the minority candidate. And then there were 200,000,000 Americans that did not vote for anybody. What was the will of those people?- SECOND

It's very simple, SECOND, it's the will of the people as expressed through the currently-adopted process*. It would be impossible to hand-hold non-voters into expressing their opinion, given that it's a state-to-state issue.

*Yanno, the "democratic institutions" that THUGR goes on and on about ... the delegation of authority to each state.


-------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, September 6, 2018 11:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
And then there were 200,000,000 Americans that did not vote for anybody. What was the will of those people?



In the case of 45,200,000, their opinion doesn't matter.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/306623/percentage-of-population-un
der-18-years-in-the-us-by-state-and
/

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 7, 2018 2:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


This opinion, written by someone who obviously has spent a lot more time thinking about this than I did.

Quote:

We Are Being Played

If any evidence existed to be found that Donald Trump had illegally colluded with the Russian government to rig the 2016 presidential election, that evidence would have been picked up by the sprawling surveillance networks of the US and its allies and leaked to the Washington Post before Obama left office.

Russiagate is like a mirage. From a distance it looks like a solid, tangible thing, but when you actually move in to examine it critically you find nothing but gaping plot holes, insinuation, innuendo, conflicting narratives, bizarre mental contortions to avoid acknowledging contradictory information, a few arrests for corruption and process crimes, and a lot of hot air. The whole thing has been held together by nothing but the confident-sounding assertions of pundits and politicians and sheer, mindless repetition. And, as we approach the two year mark since this president’s election, we have not seen one iota of movement toward removing him from office. The whole thing’s a lie, and the smart movers and shakers behind it are aware that it is a lie.

And yet they keep beating on it. Day after day after day after day it’s been Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. Instead of attacking this president for his many, many real problems in a way that will do actual damage, they attack this fake blow-up doll standing next to him in a way that never goes anywhere and never will, like a pro wrestler theatrically stomping on the canvass next to his downed foe.

What’s up with that?

As you doubtless already know by now, the New York Times has made the wildly controversial decision to publish an anonymous op-ed reportedly authored by “a senior official in the Trump administration.” The op-ed’s author claims to be part of a secret coalition of patriots who dislike Trump and are “working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.” These “worst inclinations” according to the author include trying to make peace with Moscow and Pyongyang, being rude to longtime US allies, saying mean things about the media, being “anti-trade”, and being “erratic”. The possibility of invoking the 25th Amendment is briefly mentioned but dismissed. The final paragraphs are spent gushing about John McCain for no apparent reason.

I strongly encourage you to read the piece in its entirety, because for all the talk and drama it’s generating, it doesn’t actually make any sense. While you are reading it, I encourage you to keep the following question in mind: what could anyone possibly gain by authoring this and giving it to the New York Times?

Yes, I was wondering about that ...

Quote:

Seriously, what could be gained? The op-ed says essentially nothing, other than to tell readers to relax and trust in anonymous administration insiders who are working against the bad guys on behalf of the people (which is interestingly the exact same message of the right-wing 8chan conspiracy phenomenon QAnon, just with the white hats and black hats reversed). Why would any senior official risk everything to publish something so utterly pointless? Why risk getting fired (or risk losing all political currency in the party if NYTAnon is Mike Pence, as has been theorized) just to communicate something to the public that doesn’t change or accomplish anything? Why publicly announce your undercover conspiracy to undermine the president in a major news outlet at all?
Yes, good question.

Quote:

What are the results of this viral op-ed everyone’s talking about? So far it’s a bunch of Democratic partisans making a lot of excited whooping noises, and Trump loyalists feeling completely vindicated in the belief that all of their conspiracy theories have been proven correct. Many rank-and-file Trump haters are feeling a little more relaxed and complacent knowing that there are a bunch of McCain-loving “adults in the room” taking care of everything, and many rank-and-file Trump supporters are more convinced than ever that Donald Trump is a brave populist hero leading a covert 4-D chess insurgency against the Deep State. In other words, everyone’s been herded into their respective partisan stables and trusting the narratives that they are being fed there.

And, well, I just think that’s odd.

Did you know that Donald Trump is in the WWE Hall of Fame? He was inducted in 2013, and he’s been enthusiastically involved in pro wrestling for many years, both as a fan and as a performer. He’s made more of a study on how to draw a crowd in to the theatrics of a choreographed fight scene than anyone this side of the McMahon family (a member of whom happens to be part of the Trump administration currently).

You don’t have to get into any deep conspiratorial rabbit hole to consider the possibility that all this drama and conflict is staged from top to bottom. Commentators on all sides routinely crack jokes about how the mainstream media pretends to attack Trump but secretly loves him because he brings them amazing ratings. Anyone with their eyes even part way open already knows that America’s two mainstream parties feign intense hatred for one another while working together to pace their respective bases into accepting more and more neoliberal exploitation at home and more and more neoconservative bloodshed abroad. They spit and snarl and shake their fists at each other, then cuddle up and share candy when it’s time for a public gathering. Why should this administration be any different?

I believe that a senior Trump administration official probably did write that anonymous op-ed. I do not believe that they were moved to write it out of compassion for the poor Americans who are feeling emotionally stressed about the president. I believe it was written and published for the same reason many other things are written and published in mainstream media: because we are all being played.

The more I study US politics, the less useful I find it to think of it in political terms. The two-headed one party system exists to give Americans the illusion of choice while advancing the agendas of the plutocratic class which owns and operates both parties, yes, but even more importantly it’s a mechanism of narrative control. If you can separate the masses into two groups based on extremely broad ideological characteristics, you can then funnel streamlined “us vs them” narratives into each of the two stables, with the white hats and black hats reversed in each case. Now you’ve got Republicans cheering for the president and Democrats cheering for the CIA, for the FBI, and now for a platoon of covert John McCains alleged to be operating on the inside of Trump’s own administration. Everyone’s cheering for one aspect of the US power establishment or another.

Whom does this dynamic serve? Not you.

If you belonged to a ruling class, obviously your goal would be to ensure your subjects’ continued support for you. In a corporatist oligarchy, the rulers are secret and the subjects don’t know they’re ruled, and power is held in place with manipulation and with money. As such a ruler your goal would be to find a way to manipulate the masses into supporting your agendas, and, since people are different, you’d need to use different narratives to manipulate them. You’d have to divide them, tell them different stories, turn them against each other, play them off one another, suck them in to the tales you are spinning with the theater of enmity and heroism.

As a result of the New York Times op-ed, if this administration engages in yet another of its many, many establishment capitulations (let’s say by attacking the Syrian government again), Trump’s supporters won’t see it as his fault; it will be blamed on the deep state insiders in his administration who have been working to thwart his agendas of peace and harmony. Meanwhile those who see Trump as a heel won’t experience any cognitive dissonance if any of the establishment agendas they support are carried out, because they can give the credit to the secret hero squad in the White House.

Would a billionaire WWE Hall of Famer and United States President understand the theater of staged conflict for the advancement of plutocratic interests, and willingly participate in it? I’m going to say probably.



I too have been wondering about the reason for this attack against Trump.

Is it meant to fire up the Democratic base? Hardly necessary, as Dems are fired up enough already.

Is it meant to sway the independent/ no party preference voter, who tends to sway conservative/ Republican? I'm not sure; since independents tend to swing towards populism, but this may be the factor.

Is it meant separate the "conservative" Republicans from the "populist" Republicans, on behalf of the conservatives? Well, what purpose would THAT serve? The writer has already said that they're riding Trump like a hobby-horse to achieve their own agenda (which is why they don't invoke Article 25 ... Trump is too useful to them) and all THAT would do is achieve a Democratic victory and rob conservative Republicans of their own agenda.

Is it mean to establish the actuality of a deep state, and to activate Trump supporters and/or provide a justification for the kind of action that "Q" keeps hinting at? (i.e. exposing the crimes of people like Hillary and Podesta, rounding them up and trying them as enemy combatants in a military court?)

Actually, that makes some sense. There have been some moves in the background that seem random, but could become important, such as the Executive Order on child trafficking. IMHO quite a number of FBI/DOJ have already been removed from office, which could be a precursor/ necessary step to other actions. But only one thing will determine what this is all about, at it's whether Trump does anything like what "Q" keeps hinting at. I'm waiting to see what happens next.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, September 7, 2018 7:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I too have been wondering about the reason for this attack against Trump.

Signym, there is no reason to wonder, but you do because you're deaf and blind to what is plainly obvious. For example, an average German is neither a Democrat nor a Republican nor an Independent. Yet they can see and hear what is wrong with Trump. That doesn't make them scientific instruments flawlessly detecting "wrongness", but they can smell the rotten stink coming off of Trump. (I could smell it years ago from his "management" books, then the way he ran his casinos, and then his TV show. What a rotten businessman Trump was and is):

Donald Trump replaces terrorism as Germans' greatest fear

The US president's policies were named as the top fear factor by 69 per cent of respondents in the annual survey.

The "Fears of Germans" poll has been carried out for over a quarter century by the R+V insurance company's Infocenter, which asks respondents which political, economic, personal and ecological issues scare them the most.

"Trump's ruthless 'America First' policy, his aggressive stance against international agreements and his no less aggressive stance on trade and security, including against allies, is scaring a majority of the population," said political scientist Manfred Schmidt.

"This is reinforced by Trump's attacks against Germany," Mr Schmidt, of the Ruprecht Karls University in Heidelberg, who advises the centre, said in a statement.

"If the US should refuse to provide military assistance to countries with supposedly low defence expenditures, this would put Germany in a difficult position, given its current inability to defend itself."

More at www.thenational.ae/world/europe/donald-trump-replaces-terrorism-as-ger
mans-greatest-fear-1.767735


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 7, 2018 7:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

It is not "treason" (aiding an enemy in a declared war) which is why I posted "something like treason". But I agree with Trumps sentiment. People voted for Trump because he said he would do certain things, and the deep state is busy subverting the will of the people by imposing a different agenda over a platform that people voted for.

Yanno, THUGR is always going on and on about our "democratic institutions" and yet seems to tolerate this rather large violation of the democratic process. - SIGNY


Signym, you might need to clarify what "the will of the people" means and exactly what this "platform that people voted for" means. That's because Trump was the minority candidate. And then there were 200,000,000 Americans that did not vote for anybody. What was the will of those people?- SECOND

It's very simple, SECOND, it's the will of the people as expressed through the currently-adopted process*. It would be impossible to hand-hold non-voters into expressing their opinion, given that it's a state-to-state issue.

*Yanno, the "democratic institutions" that THUGR goes on and on about ... the delegation of authority to each state.

Would it be possible to run the Electoral College as it was designed? The states wrecked the function of the college. For one example: Trump got 48% to Hillary's 47.5% in Pennsylvania. State law doesn't give a damn that nobody got a majority. Instead the law un-democratically gave 100% of the electoral votes to the guy who only won 48%. The Electoral College only exists so that the College can evaluate each candidate and its votes are to be split among the candidates. Nobody was ever suppose to get 100% of the College unless that guy got 100% of the popular vote. 48% is not 100%. This was driving the writers of the Constitution crazy two hundred years ago when the states began subverting the Constitution with the new state rule that whoever gets more votes, even if it is only 33% or 25%, will get 100% of the College votes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_201
6

http://time.com/4558510/electoral-college-history-slavery/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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