REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Escaped Syrian ISIS women tell their stories

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Sunday, May 2, 2021 06:16
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Sunday, November 22, 2015 9:32 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:11 AM

THGRRI


Good story. As time goes by there are more and more of complaints from ISIS members coming out. There was a story I read concerning the displeasure of some ISIS recruits about conditions where they are. Things like a lack of a good shampoo, and bad coffee. Sounds simple but complaints are complaints and they resonate with readers.

The backgrounds of many ISIS recruits are showing the other Muslims of the world that they are not followers of the Koran but instead street thugs who have dabbled in drugs. All this contributes to ISIS's downfall.


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Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:26 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Not sure if I beleive this hag, I know some of what she says can be true but wonder if these people can ever intergrate with the West or any nation. IMO She's damaged goods, still brainwashed by the extreme muslim islamo nonsense.
A team of criminal psychologists from across the world should asses and examine and get interviews from each and every one to see if they are 'escapes', 'refugees' they should be made drop a Koran, asked what they think of someone joking at Islam, made look at Mohammed cartoons....I think they are damaged personally but a team of criminal psychologists should look at them and examine if they will ever contribute to socity and see if they can be allowed live outside Syria

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm
Taqiyya and Kitman

Obama's regressive Liberalism is a failure, Germany Merkel's Christain Democrats, Christian Social Union, Julia Klöckner, Sweden’s Kent Ekeroth, Canada's forced multi-culturalism....its going down hill fast
...Patriots, Nationalists, the Right are on the rise...not because the rightwing is good and great but only because of Liberal idiocy
In sumary Merkel and Obama are fools

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 11:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, this is what I learned:

Very little of the USA-official narrative of "Assad created ISIL" fits into this story. I mean, Where are Assad's barrel bombs? Where is this Syrian-based ISIL, and its burning desire for revenge against Assad?

No, the story plays out almost exactly as I read in a MUCH more realistic coverage elsewhere: Documents recovered when a major ISIL figure (Haji Bakr, true name Samir Abd Muhammad al-Khlifawi) was killed, which detail how ISIL foreigners gradually took control of Syria: ISIL implants would spy on a city or town, identify its major families (those with influence, or resources). They would find evidence of crimes or corruption, and threaten to expose the patriarch or sons unless certain concessions were made- among them, marrying off their daughters to foreign ISIL fighters and making these foreigners "part of the family", able to access family assets.

Quote:

This blueprint was implemented with astonishing accuracy in the ensuing months. The plan would always begin with the same detail: The group recruited followers under the pretense of opening a Dawah office, an Islamic missionary center. Of those who came to listen to lectures and attend courses on Islamic life, one or two men were selected and instructed to spy on their village and obtain a wide range of information. To that end, Haji Bakr compiled lists such as the following:

List the powerful families.
Name the powerful individuals in these families.
Find out their sources of income.
Name names and the sizes of (rebel) brigades in the village.
Find out the names of their leaders, who controls the brigades and their political orientation.
Find out their illegal activities (according to Sharia law), which could be used to blackmail them if necessary.

The spies were told to note such details as whether someone was a criminal or a homosexual, or was involved in a secret affair, so as to have ammunition for blackmailing later. "We will appoint the smartest ones as Sharia sheiks," Bakr had noted. "We will train them for a while and then dispatch them." As a postscript, he had added that several "brothers" would be selected in each town to marry the daughters of the most influential families, in order to "ensure penetration of these families without their knowledge."

The spies were to find out as much as possible about the target towns: Who lived there, who was in charge, which families were religious, which Islamic school of religious jurisprudence they belonged to, how many mosques there were, who the imam was, how many wives and children he had and how old they were. Other details included what the imam's sermons were like, whether he was more open to the Sufi, or mystical variant of Islam, whether he sided with the opposition or the regime, and what his position was on jihad. Bakr also wanted answers to questions like: Does the imam earn a salary? If so, who pays it? Who appoints him? Finally: How many people in the village are champions of democracy?



http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-str
ucture-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html


So the next time you hear John McCain choking on his spit about "Assad's" creation of ISIL, please remember that you're listening to a man so twisted by rage that there is nothing he wouldn't say and no ally too heinous that he won't use to satisfy his warmongering desires. (And the next time you see Hillary sidling somewhere near McCain, just note that she's just doing what she's always done best: Triangulating.)

The number of foreign fighters is truly astounding. Look at who these young women get married to: A Saudi (a wealthy one at that), an Iraqi, an Egyptian. Women from Britain and Tunisia and Saudi Arabia and France were within their own morality brigade. This isn't so much a homegrown revolution but a foreign takeover.

In post WWII Europe, these women would be accused of "collaboration horizontales". They would be marched through the streets, nearly-naked and with shaved heads. Now, I suppose these particular young women had far fewer options, seeing as it was their families who gave them away to the foreign wahhabis, but I'm not about to feel sorry for them because they then joined the morality police out of ... boredom? Collaboration is always easier, but it doesn't deserve sympathy.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 11:45 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Not sure if I beleive this hag, I know some of what she says can be true but wonder if these people can ever intergrate with the West or any nation. IMO She's damaged goods, still brainwashed by the extreme muslim islamo nonsense.
A team of criminal psychologists from across the world should asses and examine and get interviews from each and every one to see if they are 'escapes', 'refugees' they should be made drop a Koran, asked what they think of someone joking at Islam, made look at Mohammed cartoons....I think they are damaged personally but a team of criminal psychologists should look at them and examine if they will ever contribute to socity and see if they can be allowed live outside Syria


Obama's regressive Liberalism is a failure, Germany Merkel's Christain Democrats, Christian Social Union, Julia Klöckner, Sweden’s Kent Ekeroth, Canada's forced multi-culturalism....its going down hill fast
...Patriots, Nationalists, the Right are on the rise...not because the rightwing is good and great but only because of Liberal idiocy
In sumary Merkel and Obama are fools



The last thing the world should do is take the advice from an ill-informed obsessed bigot. Just to show your ignorance on the subject without going into to much detail, visa's are the best way for DAESH to enter the country, not as refugees. It's much easier for them to get in that way.


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Sunday, November 22, 2015 12:10 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
ill-informed




I've a good feeling I'm far more intelligent than you, unless you count Miley cyrus iphones and pop culture as intelligence
I'm not a native Englsih speaker but I've a good feeling I'm smarter than you
in physics, science, in languages, smarter in math, in art, in chemistry, music...I have a feeling I would beat you in anything kid


You wanna be so concerned for muslims you're willing to help them all and maybe put the United States of America at risk? By brining in tens of thousands and possibly jeopardize the safety of American children and women and putting at risk the safety of Arab atheists and christains and muslim apostates who fled from Iraq by bringing in more wacko muslims....tell you what I got a better idea....if you feel that strong about it that you would rather put your own fellow Americans at risk maybe you should give up America for a while...I'll tell you what - maybe you should sign up with some U.N charity, sign up with the red cross, or sign up with some leftist liberalism charity group and go over there to help them in some Turkey, Israel, Jordan camp....maybe you should go over there yourself and help them if you would rather help them than help your fellow American!

and btw your such an assclown you don't even know what your debating against I'm not this mississippi conservative redneck cartoon character you try make me be, what if I told you I wasnt even 'white' your brain has been so taken by tv religion of regressive liberalism you don't even know what you argue against

Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
bigot



Ok I'll play 'bigot', are you not a gelding yet? if not i think you should Hurry up and get the sex change operation you've saved for




you're free to quote me on that anytime

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 12:41 PM

THGRRI





JAYNZTOWN
I've a good feeling I'm far more intelligent than you, unless you count Miley cyrus iphones and pop culture as intelligence

Me



JAYNZTOWN

I'm not a native Englsih speaker but I've a good feeling I'm smarter than you
in physics, science, in languages, smarter in math, in art, in chemistry, music...I have a feeling I would beat you in anything kid

Me

Can you say borderline personality?

JAYNZTOWN

You wanna be so concerned for muslims you're willing to help them all and maybe put the United States of America at risk? By brining in tens of thousands and possibly jeopardize the safety of American children and women and putting at risk the safety of Arab atheists and christains and muslim apostates who fled from Iraq by bringing in more wacko muslims....tell you what I got a better idea....if you feel that strong about it that you would rather put your own fellow Americans at risk maybe you should give up America for a while...I'll tell you what - maybe you should sign up with some U.N charity, sign up with the red cross, or sign up with some leftist liberalism charity group and go over there to help them in some Turkey, Israel, Jordan camp....maybe you should go over there yourself and help them if you would rather help them than help your fellow American!

Me

I am surprised because as you claim, you are smarter than I that you would realize my primary concern is not the Muslim population. And Instead that I am defending my countries constitution and bill of rights. People like you are always trying to destroy the concept of tolerance and inclusion.

JAYNZTOWN

and btw your such an assclown you don't even know what your debating against I'm not this mississippi conservative redneck cartoon character you try make me be, what if I told you I wasnt even 'white' your brain has been so taken by tv religion of regressive liberalism you don't even know what
you argue against

Me

You don’t have to be white to be exactly what you claim not to be. If you were half as intelligent as you claim to be you would know this. You are exactly what you claim not to be and definitely not who you think you are.



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Sunday, November 22, 2015 1:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And Instead that I am defending my countries constitution and bill of rights. People like you are always trying to destroy the concept of tolerance and inclusion.
Tell me, where in the Constitution and Bill of Rights does it specify the right of immigration?


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:00 PM

THGRRI


SIG

Tell me, where in the Constitution and Bill of Rights does it specify the right of immigration?

My response

Bill of rights section 9: The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The Bill of rights unmistakably state here that the congress does not have the right to stop immigration by its own authority. Clearly what many like you and JAYNZTOWN are calling for.

The great diversity of this nation was also a formidable obstacle to unity. The people who were empowered by the Constitution to elect and control their central government were of widely differing origins, beliefs and interests. Most had come from England, but Sweden, Norway, France, Holland, Prussia, Poland and many other countries also sent immigrants to the New World. Their religious beliefs were varied and in most cases strongly held. There were Anglicans, Roman Catholics, Calvinists, Huguenots, Lutherans, Quakers, Jews, agnostics and atheists. The backbone of the country was the middle class -- farmers, tradesmen, mechanics, sailors, shipwrights, weavers, carpenters and a host of others. To now chastise all Muslims based on a dismal percentile of the Muslim population who are extreme is an attack on diversity, tolerance and inclusion based on fear and hate.

Most of the rights enshrined in the Constitution of the United States are based in ideas of natural law, or the principle that in a state of nature, without government interference, man naturally engages in certain activities, and that government should not be permitted to interfere with this. For example, man naturally expresses his ideas and practices his religion. Are you following any of this SIG, or should I break it down further for you? In order for the constitution to function as designed it has to work for all equally.

We grew through inclusion SIG not exclusion. In the past two centuries, the diversity of the American people has increased, and yet the essential unity of the nation has grown stronger. From the original 13 states along the Atlantic seaboard, America spread westward across the entire continent. That's the premise SIG, for all to join in, in this Philosophy of diversity. And you guys are the ones fighting it.

Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, "A republic, if you can keep it." Everything JAYNZTOWN stands for today if implemented would destroy the values and premise this country is built on and the world is watching with bated breath.

Do you understand any of this SIG, or because your loyalties lie with Russia are you going to be dismissive as usual of what America is truly about, and continue to only point out were we fall short at times???



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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight... The Bill of rights unmistakably state here that the congress does not have the right to stop immigration by its own authority. Clearly what many like you and JAYNZTOWN are calling for.
That was in deference to the slave trade*, you nitwit, not immigration. And it'll be a cold day in hell when you get me to agree that it was the slave trade that made this nation great.

*You should have picked that up from the wording, because you don't "import" refugees.

Quote:

We grew through inclusion SIG not exclusion.
Tell that to the natives who we exterminated and whose land we stole, and to women who were excluded from consideration during the founding of democracy, and to the black slaves whose descendants are still excluded to this day.

Quote:

and yet the essential unity of the nation has grown stronger.
WHAT "unity"? If we had such unity, we would not need either the most militarized police in the world, nor would we need the highest incarceration rate in the world. You're living in some idealized fantasy.

Oh, and BTW- I read Rousseau's The Social Contract which influenced Jefferson, Franklin and others of the Enlightenment. Did you?


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:33 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight... The Bill of rights unmistakably state here that the congress does not have the right to stop immigration by its own authority. Clearly what many like you and JAYNZTOWN are calling for.
That was in deference to the slave trade*, you nitwit, not immigration. And it'll be a cold day in hell when you get me to agree that it was the slave trade that made this nation great.

*You should have picked that up from the wording, because you don't "import" refugees.

Quote:

We grew through inclusion SIG not exclusion.
Tell that to the natives who we exterminated and whose land we stole.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



It is in the Bill of Rights Nitwit and says nothing about slaves. Even if true it still stands as being in the Bill of Rights Nitwit and therefore applies to todays immigrants and that Nitwit is the point. You don't wish to recognize this because it is a premise you do not believe in being a comrade troll. And it is the premise this country is built on.


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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:37 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I can't help it if you cant' read. It says IMPORT or MIGRATE. IMPORT - to purchase and take delivery of. MIGRATE- BETWEEN states.

Weren't YOU the one who made such a fuss about "context"? Well, here is the CONTEXT of that clause and - yep- it's all about the slave trade!

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/60/slave-tra
de



The line was carefully carved out, it has been discussed and adjudicated a million times over by now, and somehow you're the only one who hasn't heard the conclusion yet.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:40 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I can't help it if you cant' read. It says IMPORT or MIGRATE. IMPORT - to purchase and take delivery of. MIGRATE- BETWEEN states.

The line was carefully carved out, it has been discussed and adjudicated a million times over by now, and somehow you're the only one who hasn't heard the conclusion yet.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



Right stupid, it says to migrate or import. Apparently you lack the reasoning power to recognize there is a difference between importing persons and migrating persons. We have since had changes in our society from impetrating persons against their will but people sponsor importing people (family) all the time.


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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Right stupid, it says to migrate or import. Apparently you lack the reasoning power to recognize there is a difference between importing persons and migrating persons. We have since had changes in our society from impetrating [sic] persons against their will but people sponsor importing people (family) all the time.


THUGR, these are the arguments that came before that clause (in the Constitutional Convention) and the problem it was meant to resolve

Quote:

Although the first debate over slavery at the Constitutional Convention concerned representation (see Article I, Section 2, Clause 3), the second debate arose when Southern delegates objected that an unrestricted congressional power to regulate commerce could be used against Southern commercial interests to restrict or outlaw the slave trade. That the resulting provision was an important compromise is underscored by the fact that the clause stands as the first independent restraint on congressional powers, prior even to the restriction on the power to suspend the writ of habeas corpus.

Taking Southern concerns into consideration, the draft proposed by the Committee of Detail (chaired by John Rutledge of South Carolina) dealt with trade issues as well as those relating to slavery. The draft permanently forbade Congress to tax exports, to outlaw or tax the slave trade, or to pass navigation laws without two-thirds majorities in both houses of Congress. Several delegates strongly objected to the proposal, including Gouverneur Morris, who delivered one of the Convention's most spirited denunciations of slavery, calling it a "nefarious institution" and "the curse of heaven."

When the issue came up for a vote, the Southern delegates themselves were sharply divided. George Mason of Virginia condemned the "infernal traffic," and Luther Martin of Maryland saw the restriction of Congress's power over the slave trade as "inconsistent with the principles of the Revolution and dishonorable to the American character." But delegates from Georgia and South Carolina announced that they would not support the Constitution without the restriction [on Congress] with Charles Pinckney arguing that failing to include the clause would trigger "an exclusion of South Carolina from the Union."

Unresolved, the issue was referred to the Committee of Eleven (chaired by William Livingston of New Jersey), which took the opposite position and recognized a congressional power over the slave trade, but recommended that it be restricted for twelve years, and allowed a tax on slave importation. Although that was a significant change from the Committee of Detail's original proposal, Southern delegates accepted the new arrangement with the extension of the time period to twenty years, from 1800 to 1808.

Agitation against the slave trade was the leading cause espoused by the antislavery movement at the time of the Constitutional Convention, so it is not surprising that this clause was the most immediately controversial of the so-called slave clauses of the proposed Constitution (see Article I, Section 2, Clause 3; Article IV, Section 2, Clause 3; and Article V). Although some denounced the Slave Trade Clause as a major concession to slavery interests, most begrudged it to be a necessary and prudent compromise. James Madison, for example, argued at the Convention that the twenty-year exemption was "dishonorable," but in The Federalist No. 42, he declared that it was "a great point gained in favor of humanity, that a period of twenty years may terminate for ever within these States" what he called an "unnatural traffic" that was "the barbarism of modern policy."

Some claimed that the Commerce Clause gave Congress the power to regulate both the interstate and the foreign slave trade once the twenty-year period had lapsed. James Wilson of Pennsylvania argued, "yet the lapse of a few years, and Congress will have power to exterminate slavery from within our borders." Though the question was not clearly resolved at the time, Madison denied this interpretation during the First Congress. Not even Abraham Lincoln claimed that congressional power to regulate commerce could be used to restrict interstate commerce in slaves.


http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/60/slave-tra
de


I'm with you on "plain reading" of the Constitution, but here you are clearly misinterpreting what the Founding Fathers were event talking about! Hyper-focusing on one word and then trying to wrench in into YOUR context to prove your point is silly and counterfactual

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight.


I think the time is up on this one.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight.


I think the time is up on this one.



HAHAHA!!!
That too!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 2:55 PM

THGRRI


The fact that it remains means it applies today. We use it differently than in the 1800's but nonetheless it applies to migrants and refugees. Besides, most of what I speak of is inclusion. A point lost on you.

I hear the same cries today from some that resemble the propaganda of the Nazis of yesterday.


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Sunday, November 22, 2015 3:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The fact that this clause ... no matter WHAT it means ... had its time limit expire some 200+ years ago should have given you pause.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 3:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


BACK TO THE TOPIC ...

So, this is what I learned:

Very little of the USA-official narrative of "Assad created ISIL" fits into this story. I mean, Where are Assad's barrel bombs? Where is this Syrian-based ISIL, and its burning desire for revenge against Assad?

No, the story plays out almost exactly as I read in a MUCH more realistic coverage elsewhere: Documents recovered when a major ISIL figure (Haji Bakr, true name Samir Abd Muhammad al-Khlifawi) was killed, which detail how ISIL foreigners gradually took control of Syria: ISIL implants would spy on a city or town, identify its major families (those with influence, or resources). They would find evidence of crimes or corruption, and threaten to expose the patriarch or sons unless certain concessions were made- among them, marrying off their daughters to foreign ISIL fighters and making these foreigners "part of the family", able to access family assets.

Quote:

This blueprint was implemented with astonishing accuracy in the ensuing months. The plan would always begin with the same detail: The group recruited followers under the pretense of opening a Dawah office, an Islamic missionary center. Of those who came to listen to lectures and attend courses on Islamic life, one or two men were selected and instructed to spy on their village and obtain a wide range of information. To that end, Haji Bakr compiled lists such as the following:

List the powerful families.
Name the powerful individuals in these families.
Find out their sources of income.
Name names and the sizes of (rebel) brigades in the village.
Find out the names of their leaders, who controls the brigades and their political orientation.
Find out their illegal activities (according to Sharia law), which could be used to blackmail them if necessary.

The spies were told to note such details as whether someone was a criminal or a homosexual, or was involved in a secret affair, so as to have ammunition for blackmailing later. "We will appoint the smartest ones as Sharia sheiks," Bakr had noted. "We will train them for a while and then dispatch them." As a postscript, he had added that several "brothers" would be selected in each town to marry the daughters of the most influential families, in order to "ensure penetration of these families without their knowledge."

The spies were to find out as much as possible about the target towns: Who lived there, who was in charge, which families were religious, which Islamic school of religious jurisprudence they belonged to, how many mosques there were, who the imam was, how many wives and children he had and how old they were. Other details included what the imam's sermons were like, whether he was more open to the Sufi, or mystical variant of Islam, whether he sided with the opposition or the regime, and what his position was on jihad. Bakr also wanted answers to questions like: Does the imam earn a salary? If so, who pays it? Who appoints him? Finally: How many people in the village are champions of democracy?



http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-str
ucture-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html


So the next time you hear John McCain choking on his spit about "Assad's" creation of ISIL, please remember that you're listening to a man so twisted by rage that there is nothing he wouldn't say and no ally too heinous that he won't use to satisfy his warmongering desires. (And the next time you see Hillary sidling somewhere near McCain, just note that she's just doing what she's always done best: Triangulating.)

The number of foreign fighters is truly astounding. Look at who these young women get married to: A Saudi (a wealthy one at that), an Iraqi, an Egyptian. Women from Britain and Tunisia and Saudi Arabia and France were within their own morality brigade. This isn't so much a homegrown revolution but a foreign takeover.

In post WWII Europe, these women would be accused of "collaboration horizontales". They would be marched through the streets, nearly-naked and with shaved heads. Now, I suppose these particular young women had far fewer options, seeing as it was their families who gave them away to the foreign wahhabis, but I'm not about to feel sorry for them because they then joined the morality police out of ... boredom? Collaboration is always easier, but it doesn't deserve sympathy.

--------------


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 3:36 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The fact that this clause ... no matter WHAT it means ... had its time limit expire some 200+ years ago should have given you pause.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



You can't dismiss something just because it doesn't fit into your agenda. It is a part of the Bill of Rights and the changes made are in the 13th amendment. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. The part dealing with migration and importing persons stands.

Sorry SIG, once again you are full of shit because you offer as an argument wishful thinking and not fact.


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Sunday, November 22, 2015 4:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight.
Shall not be prohibited by Congress PRIOR TO THE YEAR 1808.

AFTER THAT, IT CAN BE prohibited by Congress. Since we're well past 1808, I suppose the migration or importation of persons into the USA has come under the jurisdiction of Congress by now!

The issue was about slavery, and whether Congress could control the importation or transportation of slaves across state lines. The deal was a temporary one and expired in 1808. Just.... just... read it to yourself a few times. Give it a day or two to settle in.

---------------

It seems to me that you're doing your very best to distract from the goings-on in Raqqa. Maybe you think that it's a poor reflection of Muslims. Your topic is dead, as far as I'm concerned.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 5:26 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

(And the next time you see Hillary sidling somewhere near McCain, just note that she's just doing what she's always done best: Triangulating.)



have seen seen these?

https://twitter.com/WalidShoebat/status/667931859532181504

http://www.westernjournalism.com/former-muslim-schools-obama-islam-isi
l
/

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 6:07 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight.
Shall not be prohibited by Congress PRIOR TO THE YEAR 1808.

AFTER THAT, IT CAN BE prohibited by Congress. Since we're well past 1808, I suppose the migration or importation of persons into the USA has come under the jurisdiction of Congress by now!

The issue was about slavery, and whether Congress could control the importation or transportation of slaves across state lines. The deal was a temporary one and expired in 1808. Just.... just... read it to yourself a few times. Give it a day or two to settle in.

---------------

It seems to me that you're doing your very best to distract from the goings-on in Raqqa. Maybe you think that it's a poor reflection of Muslims. Your topic is dead, as far as I'm concerned.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



Hey stupid, It was amended in the 13th amendment like I said. Passed by Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified on December 6, 1865, the 13th amendment abolished slavery in the United States and provides that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.".

If slavery was not abolished until 1865 then I would suggest to you the law was up and running until amended. At which point it became illegal to import persons for the stated purpose. And only the stated purpose.


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Sunday, November 22, 2015 6:11 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Very little of the USA-official narrative of "Assad created ISIL" fits into this story. I mean, Where are Assad's barrel bombs? Where is this Syrian-based ISIL, and its burning desire for revenge against Assad?


"When the uprising against the government of President Bashar al-Assad began rippling across Syria in 2011, it seemed distant from Raqqa. As news of fighting and massacres started filtering in..."

"Abu Soheil had killed himself in an operation not against the hated Syrian Army, but against a competing rebel group that the Islamic State was trying to wipe out. “I cried for days,” she said. “He died fighting other Muslims.”"

"Mr. Assad’s forces were targeting civilians, sweeping into homes in the middle of the night and brutalizing men in front of their wives; the fighters had no choice but to respond with equal brutality, they said."


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 6:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"If slavery was not abolished until 1865 then I would suggest to you the law was up and running until amended."

I'm sorry, but your failure to grasp - or admit that you were wrong - that the vision was null and void after 1808 is just plain stupid. And it wasn't 'amended' by the 13th amendment, because the 13th amendment 1) doesn't say anything about amending that clause, and 2) neither addresses importation or migration as toics that need its attention.

SHEESH!

And let me point out that when you dig yourself in to your erroneous position, you look willfully ignorant on top of being in error.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 7:07 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


lots of woo woo tinfoil
the woman ripping McCain may be accurate







Best of... China, Islam and ISIS






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Sunday, November 22, 2015 7:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Your quotes are from the NYTimes of course, the same outlet of Judith Miller and centrifuges under rosebushes fame.

Thanks for NOT providing a link so we all could check out the article easily and look at the statements in context. Here it is, as a courtesy you failed to provide. You're welcome. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/22/world/middleeast/isis-wives-and-enfo
rcers-in-syria-recount-collaboration-anguish-and-escape.html


Parsing it for evidence for facts, and for evidence of bias - as one should ALWAYS do regardless of 'source' - I found there was *AS USUAL* exactly ZERO evidence for this statement:
"When the uprising against the government of President Bashar al-Assad began rippling across Syria in 2011, it seemed distant from Raqqa. As news of fighting and massacres started filtering in..." Not only is it not attributed to any of the people interviewed for the story (eyewitness accounts, which are a fairly weak form of evidence) it's not attributed to anything at all. This seems to be a complete invention of the author.

As for this one "not against the hated Syrian Army", hated by whom isn't stated, but given the context, it means hated by ISIS. If Assad was hated by ISIS, that strikes me as being a good thing.

And finally, the last COMPLETE recounting is of ISIS rationalizing its brutality "At night, Aws and Dua heard attempts at self-justification from the husbands they had waited up for and would go to bed with. They had to be savage when taking a town to minimize casualties later, the men insisted. Mr. Assad’s forces were targeting civilians, sweeping into homes in the middle of the night and brutalizing men in front of their wives; the fighters had no choice but to respond with equal brutality, they said."


You've entirely misrepresented the story. No wonder you didn't provide a link. You sure are one lying bitch, aren't you?


Bye. I have better things to do than waste my time on assholes like you.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 7:28 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


ISIS plan, as far as I can see, is to use those "recruits" as so much canon fooder, and not just on the battlefield. They distract and deflect, and so create confusion, but, as it has been well described, they can lead to ISIS downfall.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Good story. As time goes by there are more and more of complaints from ISIS members coming out. There was a story I read concerning the displeasure of some ISIS recruits about conditions where they are. Things like a lack of a good shampoo, and bad coffee. Sounds simple but complaints are complaints and they resonate with readers.

The backgrounds of many ISIS recruits are showing the other Muslims of the world that they are not followers of the Koran but instead street thugs who have dabbled in drugs. All this contributes to ISIS's downfall.



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Sunday, November 22, 2015 7:32 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"If slavery was not abolished until 1865 then I would suggest to you the law was up and running until amended."

I'm sorry, but your failure to grasp - or admit that you were wrong - that the vision was null and void after 1808 is just plain stupid. And it wasn't 'amended' by the 13th amendment, because the 13th amendment 1) doesn't say anything about amending that clause, and 2) neither addresses importation or migration as toics that need its attention.

SHEESH!

And let me point out that when you dig yourself in to your erroneous position, you look willfully ignorant on top of being in error.




The Constitution barred any attempt to outlaw the slave trade before 1808. "Such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit" is a really long-winded way of saying "slaves" without actually saying "slaves."

And then Congress did vote to block the international slave trade. That was the 13th amendment. However it says nothing about amending the part stating congress cannot stop states from allowing migrants (immigrants) into their state. It says nothing of completely eliminating Article 1, Section 9 of the Bill of Rights. It doesn't address the terms migrate or import part of Article therefore leaving it in tact. And that ladies is my point.

Migrant, a person who moves from place to place to get work. I don't care if originally this term was part of a deception. Congress by phrasing the amendment the way they did only gave themselves the right to block slavery after 1808, not migrants or immigrants.





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Sunday, November 22, 2015 9:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"And then Congress did vote to block the international slave trade"

You wish!! International slave trade thrived until nearly 1900. (British/ Chinese) Your view of slavery is limited.

"It doesn't address the terms migrate or import part of Article therefore leaving it in tact."

Because the article had an expiration date, after which its terms were no longer valid. The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, November 23, 2015 8:14 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Your quotes are from the NYTimes of course, the same outlet of Judith Miller and centrifuges under rosebushes fame.

Thanks for NOT providing a link so we all could check out the article easily and look at the statements in context. Here it is, as a courtesy you failed to provide. You're welcome. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/22/world/middleeast/isis-wives-and-enfo
rcers-in-syria-recount-collaboration-anguish-and-escape.html


Kiki, you dimwit, you've just reposted the link from the OP of this thread. You have no idea what the subject of the thread is, and no idea what points I was debating with Siggy, yet you still jump in spouting nonsense, insults and false accusations?

Oh well. For what do we live but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, November 23, 2015 8:33 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

You wish!! International slave trade thrived until nearly 1900. (British/ Chinese)

Huh? Cites please.

Quote:

Your view of slavery is limited.

And yours is highly questionable.


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, November 23, 2015 11:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Very little of the USA-official narrative of "Assad created ISIL" fits into this story. I mean, Where are Assad's barrel bombs? Where is this Syrian-based ISIL, and its burning desire for revenge against Assad?- SIGNY

"When the uprising against the government of President Bashar al-Assad began rippling across Syria in 2011, it seemed distant from Raqqa. As news of fighting and massacres started filtering in..."

"Abu Soheil had killed himself in an operation not against the hated Syrian Army, but against a competing rebel group that the Islamic State was trying to wipe out. “I cried for days,” she said. “He died fighting other Muslims.”"

"Mr. Assad’s forces were targeting civilians, sweeping into homes in the middle of the night and brutalizing men in front of their wives; the fighters had no choice but to respond with equal brutality, they said."




Yes, I saw that. But the terrible forces of President Assad always seem to be what someone talks about, not what anyone has actually experienced. I think this deserves a detailed discussion:

Quote:

"When the uprising against the government of President Bashar al-Assad began rippling across Syria in 2011, it seemed distant from Raqqa."


Apparently, it WAS distant from Raqqa because none of it happened in Raqqa or to anyone from Raqqa. None of the girls' family members nor any of their friends seemed to be involved in the slightest .... at least, not mentioned here, altho ONE boyfriend evidently began turning towards a more conservative Sunni fundamentalism . Did the article happen to mention that one of the complaints in Sunni-Syria was that they felt that Shia were "taking over" in terms of mosque-building and contracts?

Quote:

As news of fighting and massacres started filtering in..."
Again, apparently distant and third-hand. It might not have been "news", it might have been more like rumors. Or stories. Or propaganda, since none of it was traceable to anyone with first-hand knowledge and given the general prejudice against Shia. And by then, who knows who was in control of "the news"?

Quote:

"Abu Soheil had killed himself in an operation not against the hated Syrian Army,
You can build up hatred of a particular group ... hatred enough to go to war ... for no reason whatsoever. Heck, we hated Saddam enough to spend over a trillion dollars and kill a million people, and what did Saddam ever do to US? Just because someone is "hated" doesn't mean there's a real reason for it. ISIL for sure hated the Syrian Army, and they could have whipped up a pretty good froth against Assad in Raqqa, since Sunnis in general were prejudiced against him (Alawite).


Quote:

"Mr. Assad’s forces were targeting civilians, sweeping into homes in the middle of the night and brutalizing men in front of their wives; the fighters had no choice but to respond with equal brutality, they said."

And this is quoting ISIL. You think they're a reliable source? They have every reason to paint Assad in the worst possible colors in order to- as the article itself says- justify their own brutality.

All of this is pretty weak tea. We also should take a closer look at these so-called "moderate rebels" because what I've read is that their REAL goal is pretty much in line with ISIL- to create a Sunni theocracy in Syria. On the anti-Assad side, the dispute seems to be between homegrown Syrian theocrats and the imported kind.

Almost everything that the west says about Assad and Russia seems to be fabricated or distorted.

Assad killed 200,000 of his people! Well, no ... 200,000 people were killed, but over half of those were fighting forces, and half of THOSE were the Syrian Army.

Assad gassed his own people with Sarin! Well, no ... it was eventually shown to be a false flag operation by the jihadists themselves.

The Russians are targeting hospitals! But these hospital locations can't be shared by western intelligence, for some strange reason.

The fighting is brutal. Civilians are surely getting killed. ISIL is surely doing some of that killing, and the Syrian Sunni theocrats-in-waiting are doing some, and the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) is doing some. But if you really want a democratic Syrian future you'll look closely at the so-called "moderate rebels" because if you can find a dozen "freedom-loving" moderates among the theocrats-in-waiting I'd be surprised!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, November 23, 2015 3:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


kpo

kiki- your view of slavery is limited.
kpo - And yours is highly questionable.

THANK YOU for falling into my trap! I hope you realize by now that I ALWAYS research my posts.

So, let me make some more claims that I hope you dispute, because, yeah, I like to make you look stupid. The US was NOT the biggest global slave trader, Britain was by far. And it started earlier, and went longer than anyone else in modern times. In fact, in a mere 10 years in the 1600's, Britain sold 300,000 Irish slaves to the new world. (At the same time the British outright killed 500,000 Irish, and along with general imposed economic distress, dropped the Irish population from about 1,500,000 to 600,000, or about 90,000 per year.) Britain didn't practice (much) slavery on home soil. Nope. It exported it everywhere else it went. Please! dispute any of this. Demand links! Question my information about slavery! Snark some more!!! Be topic free and 100% personal. Do what you do best.

Make my day.

So, that link you wanted?

Here it is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie






SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, November 23, 2015 8:52 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

THANK YOU for falling into my trap!

You really need this don't you? Aww kiki, a part of me is really rooting for you.

Quote:

I hope you realize by now that I ALWAYS research my posts.

Except that one just earlier, where you didn't even research what the subject matter of the thread was.

Quote:

So, let me make some more claims

Why don't you start by backing up your first one - particularly the bit about the 'thriving' British slave trade until nearly 1900...?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, November 23, 2015 9:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You have the link? You can read? Do you need anything else?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, November 23, 2015 9:05 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


How about specific quotes/data that, you know, actually back up your claim.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2015 5:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


kpo wanted a link. He got a link. NOW he's decided he wants something different before he addresses the topic. So, speaking of shifting the goals posts -

- on to the OTHER claims he's trying to barricade himself against addressing (by making different demands):

The US was NOT the biggest global slave trader, Britain was by far. And it started earlier, and went longer than anyone else in modern times. In fact, in a mere 10 years in the 1600's, Britain sold 300,000 Irish slaves to the new world. (At the same time the British outright killed 500,000 Irish, and along with general imposed economic distress, dropped the Irish population from about 1,500,000 to 600,000, or about 90,000 per year.) Britain didn't practice (much) slavery on home soil. Nope. It exported it everywhere else it went. Please! dispute any of this. Demand links! Question my information about slavery! Snark some more!!! Be topic free and 100% personal. Do what you do best.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2015 5:28 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

kpo wanted a link. He got a link. NOW he's decided he wants something different before he addresses the topic. So, speaking of shifting the goals posts -

LOL. Ok you can't back up your claim, that's all I needed to know. It seems my calling your 'knowledge' questionable was justified.

Quote:

on to the OTHER claims he's trying to barricade himself against

Actually I make a habit of ignoring people when they fly off at tangents. It's usually because they're trying to deflect away from some point where they're wrong...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2015 5:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



kpo wanted a link. HE GOT A LINK. NOW he's decided he wants something different before he addresses the topic. So, speaking of shifting the goals posts -

- and not being derailed from my original post - let's get back to the OTHER claims he's trying to barricade himself against addressing (by making different demands):

The US was NOT the biggest global slave trader, Britain was by far. And it started earlier, and went longer than anyone else in modern times. In fact, in a mere 10 years in the 1600's, Britain sold 300,000 Irish slaves to the new world. (At the same time the British outright killed 500,000 Irish, and along with general imposed economic distress, dropped the Irish population from about 1,500,000 to 600,000, or about 90,000 per year.) Britain didn't practice (much) slavery on home soil. Nope. It exported it everywhere else it went. Please! dispute any of this. Demand links! Question my information about slavery! Snark some more!!! Be topic free and 100% personal. Do what you do best.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, November 25, 2015 6:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


ALSO, on the topic of the original story, I see that KPO really doesn't have any evidence of Assad's terrible brutality to point to in this sad story of terrorist-collaboration gone sour. Everything that he points to is rumor, untraceable to first-hand witness (Yanno, kind of like our "news!) fostered by ISIL (since ISIL was in control of "the news") and Sunni's general prejudice against anything non-Sunni.

But KPO is so vehemently anti-Russian, and therefore vehemently against Assad, that he willingly repeats ISIL's statements as evidence.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Very little of the USA-official narrative of "Assad created ISIL" fits into this story. I mean, Where are Assad's barrel bombs? Where is this Syrian-based ISIL, and its burning desire for revenge against Assad?- SIGNY

"When the uprising against the government of President Bashar al-Assad began rippling across Syria in 2011, it seemed distant from Raqqa. As news of fighting and massacres started filtering in..."

"Abu Soheil had killed himself in an operation not against the hated Syrian Army, but against a competing rebel group that the Islamic State was trying to wipe out. “I cried for days,” she said. “He died fighting other Muslims.”"

"Mr. Assad’s forces were targeting civilians, sweeping into homes in the middle of the night and brutalizing men in front of their wives; the fighters had no choice but to respond with equal brutality, they said."




Yes, I saw that. But the terrible forces of President Assad always seem to be what someone talks about, not what anyone has actually experienced. I think this deserves a detailed discussion:

Quote:

"When the uprising against the government of President Bashar al-Assad began rippling across Syria in 2011, it seemed distant from Raqqa."


Apparently, it WAS distant from Raqqa because none of it happened in Raqqa or to anyone from Raqqa. None of the girls' family members nor any of their friends seemed to be involved in the slightest .... at least, not mentioned here, altho ONE boyfriend evidently began turning towards a more conservative Sunni fundamentalism . Did the article happen to mention that one of the complaints in Sunni-Syria was that they felt that Shia were "taking over" in terms of mosque-building and contracts?

Quote:

As news of fighting and massacres started filtering in..."
Again, apparently distant and third-hand. It might not have been "news", it might have been more like rumors. Or stories. Or propaganda, since none of it was traceable to anyone with first-hand knowledge and given the general prejudice against Shia. And by then, who knows who was in control of "the news"?

Quote:

"Abu Soheil had killed himself in an operation not against the hated Syrian Army,
You can build up hatred of a particular group ... hatred enough to go to war ... for no reason whatsoever. Heck, we hated Saddam enough to spend over a trillion dollars and kill a million people, and what did Saddam ever do to US? Just because someone is "hated" doesn't mean there's a real reason for it. ISIL for sure hated the Syrian Army, and they could have whipped up a pretty good froth against Assad in Raqqa, since Sunnis in general were prejudiced against him (Alawite).


Quote:

"Mr. Assad’s forces were targeting civilians, sweeping into homes in the middle of the night and brutalizing men in front of their wives; the fighters had no choice but to respond with equal brutality, they said."

And this is quoting ISIL. You think they're a reliable source? They have every reason to paint Assad in the worst possible colors in order to- as the article itself says- justify their own brutality.

All of this is pretty weak tea. We also should take a closer look at these so-called "moderate rebels" because what I've read is that their REAL goal is pretty much in line with ISIL- to create a Sunni theocracy in Syria. On the anti-Assad side, the dispute seems to be between homegrown Syrian theocrats and the imported kind.

Almost everything that the west says about Assad and Russia seems to be fabricated or distorted.

Assad killed 200,000 of his people! Well, no ... 200,000 people were killed, but over half of those were fighting forces, and half of THOSE were the Syrian Army.

Assad gassed his own people with Sarin! Well, no ... it was eventually shown to be a false flag operation by the jihadists themselves.

The Russians are targeting hospitals! But these hospital locations can't be shared by western intelligence, for some strange reason.

The fighting is brutal. Civilians are surely getting killed. ISIL is surely doing some of that killing, and the Syrian Sunni theocrats-in-waiting are doing some, and the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) is doing some. But if you really want a democratic Syrian future you'll look closely at the so-called "moderate rebels" because if you can find a dozen "freedom-loving" moderates among the theocrats-in-waiting I'd be surprised!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, November 25, 2015 8:38 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

kpo wanted a link. HE GOT A LINK. NOW he's decided he wants something different before he addresses the topic. So, speaking of shifting the goals posts -

- and not being derailed from my original post - let's get back to the OTHER claims he's trying to barricade himself against addressing (by making different demands):

The US was NOT the biggest global slave trader, Britain was by far. And it started earlier, and went longer than anyone else in modern times. In fact, in a mere 10 years in the 1600's, Britain sold 300,000 Irish slaves to the new world. (At the same time the British outright killed 500,000 Irish, and along with general imposed economic distress, dropped the Irish population from about 1,500,000 to 600,000, or about 90,000 per year.) Britain didn't practice (much) slavery on home soil. Nope. It exported it everywhere else it went. Please! dispute any of this. Demand links! Question my information about slavery! Snark some more!!! Be topic free and 100% personal. Do what you do best.



Looks like I broke kiki, now she's just repeating herself.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, November 25, 2015 9:03 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

ALSO, on the topic of the original story, I see that KPO really doesn't have any evidence of Assad's terrible brutality to point to in this sad story of terrorist-collaboration gone sour.

Any evidence? You utter clown, this article is about life in an ISIS town, and local women who decided to ally themselves with the group, and why. Assad's massacres and brutality are the backdrop to the story so of course those things are referred to, (several times as I pointed out to you, as apparently you missed it) but they're not the point of the article, so why would it go to lengths to substantiate them?

Quote:

But KPO is so vehemently anti-Russian, and therefore vehemently against Assad

LOL that you think someone must be biased to be anti-Assad. As if the killing tens of thousands and displacing millions is not bad enough. This from the person who posts graphic images of dead children to make her point.

Ha. You claim to read media from across the international and political spectrum to get a 'balanced' view, and yet you still come away with the view that Assad is a swell guy? You're full of shit.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, November 25, 2015 9:57 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ALSO, on the topic of the original story, I see that KPO really doesn't have any evidence of Assad's terrible brutality to point to in this sad story of terrorist-collaboration gone sour. Everything that he points to is rumor, untraceable to first-hand witness (Yanno, kind of like our "news!) fostered by ISIL (since ISIL was in control of "the news") and Sunni's general prejudice against anything non-Sunni.

But KPO is so vehemently anti-Russian, and therefore vehemently against Assad, that he willingly repeats ISIL's statements as evidence.




SIG in the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person's choice to deny reality, as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth. Denialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of an historical experience or event, by the person refusing to accept an empirically verifiable reality.

This definition fits you to a T. Now a part of that denialism of course is the person in denial also deny's to themselves, that others are aware of the fact they are not truthful.

Just so you know SIG, we know this to be true about you.


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Wednesday, November 25, 2015 12:24 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Very little of the USA-official narrative of "Assad created ISIL" fits into this story. I mean, Where are Assad's barrel bombs? Where is this Syrian-based ISIL, and its burning desire for revenge against Assad?


Side note: is this a common narrative? The ISIS/ISIL recruitment is surprisingly strong globally but I thought the message comes from Iraq. One of the main leaders is from Iraq, assuming he isn't a made up US figment, which I'm not quite sure about yet.

The middle east is such a clusterfuck that I've just about given up trying to figure out what the hell is going on there. About the best I can figure in Syria is that it's a bunch of unsavory types and factions from various places all fighting to claim territory and driving out civilians. Assad is an asshole like Saddam was an asshole - piece of shit dictator you hate to see in power, but apparently he kept the lid on the crazy. Not really sad to see him deposed, but the whole thing really is just a power vacuum now.

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Wednesday, November 25, 2015 12:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I never said that "Assad is a swell guy". Saddam wasn't a swell guy, either. Neither was the Taliban. Qaddafi relatively speaking, wasn't so bad.

But they were a far cry better than what came after, once the USA got going on its nation-destroying rampage, once we had decided that we had the right to decide who should "go" and who should "stay".

So I'm for Assad staying. AND SO IS THE UNITED NATIONS. Until a political deal can be reached that guarantees that the non-Sunnis in Syria will have all of their rights retained, and not be slaughtered like so much ISIL-fodder.

You three - THUGR, GSTRING, and KPO- are the denialists. Have you learned nothing from the last four nations that we destroyed, and the next two that we're working on?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, November 25, 2015 12:34 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I never said that "Assad is a swell guy".


And I didn't say you did, I'm just trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Where I'm standing all options in Syria look terrible.

I kinda think the only humane option is to help the civilians flee - even if there might be some terrorists hiding among them - and let all the militants fight it out. That's probably naive, and a sign of me just being uninformed. It's also basically what we've been doing up to now and the whole situation is still really ugly, possibly because we're trying not to take sides.

But I mean, what else do we do? America tries to wade in there and we're going to fuck it up again. There is nothing in the middle east that a heaping serving of American military action has ever really helped.

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Friday, November 27, 2015 5:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Have you...

... a point to make, with, yanno, facts, logic, topic?

Apparently not.

Nope, there you are, with your usual personal snark - and nothing else.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, November 28, 2015 4:27 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


hey there krappo

I'll keep repeating myself till you can address the topic instead of dishing out your usual snark-shit.

kpo wanted a link. HE GOT A LINK. NOW he's decided he wants something different before he addresses the topic. So, speaking of shifting the goals posts -

- and not being derailed from my original post - let's get back to the OTHER claims he's trying to barricade himself against addressing (by making different demands):

The US was NOT the biggest global slave trader, Britain was by far. And it started earlier, and went longer than anyone else in modern times. In fact, in a mere 10 years in the 1600's, Britain sold 300,000 Irish slaves to the new world. (At the same time the British outright killed 500,000 Irish, and along with general imposed economic distress, dropped the Irish population from about 1,500,000 to 600,000, or about 90,000 per year.) Britain didn't practice (much) slavery on home soil. Nope. It exported it everywhere else it went. Please! dispute any of this. Demand links! Question my information about slavery! Snark some more!!! Be topic free and 100% personal. Do what you do best.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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