REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

And meanwhile, back in Fukushima's SFP No 4

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, July 14, 2012 22:19
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Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The main circulation pump went out, the backup pump couldn't be started, and the spent fuel pool is slowly heating up.

I'm just keeping an eye on things.

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Saturday, June 30, 2012 1:29 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


“The cooling system [...] suspended operation Saturday [...] at around 6:25 a.m. [...] The water temperature of the pool was 31 C at the time of the suspension” -Kyodo

“The temperature of the pool rose 0.26 C per hour by late Saturday afternoon, according to the utility.” -Marketwatch

“Jiji reported both of the pumps stopped, UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) has gone out of order. The water temperature was 36.6 C at 18:00 of 6/30/2012.” -Fukushima Diary

In 11.5 hours the temperature rose from 31 C to 36.6 C, or 5.6 C. This is a rate of 0.487 C per hour, nearly double the 0.26 C that Tepco reported.

If temperature continues rising at 0.487 C per hour:

* Saturday at 18:00 JST: 28.4 degrees until safety limit reached
* A 28.4 degree increase will take 58 hours and 20 minutes if rising at 0.487 C per hour
* 58 hours and 20 minutes from 18:00 JST on Saturday = Safety limit reached Tuesday morning around 4:00a JST

Interesting that the above result of Tuesday morning is the same reached in the Marketwatch report (“could reach… upper limit… on Tuesday morning”) where the 0.26 C per hour increase rate was used vs. the 0.487 C used above.








OK ... what are we seeing here. It's either a nice slow problem with lots of time to fix it, or a slow motion disaster coming dead at us.

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Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:14 PM

OONJERAH


Related news:
Why do these folks think they know more than their government and energy commisioners?

Huge Tokyo Rally Protests Nuclear Restart =>
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303649504577496802810864
704.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


TOKYO—Tens of thousands of people protested against the nation's first nuclear
reactor restarts at the Japanese prime minister's residence Friday, in one of
the largest demonstrations since the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi plant
last year set off wide opposition to nuclear power.

The massive demonstration was called to protest a government decision to re-
start Sunday two reactors at the Oi plant in western Japan. It was the 14th
demonstration organized by a coalition of anti-nuclear groups outside the
premier's residence since March 29.

... Organizers estimated the number of participants to be more than 100,000. ...

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Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:23 PM

MAL4PREZ


Thanks for the post signym. I read enenews religiously for a while, but I hadn't checked in for the past few weeks. I find the comments a little too hysterical. I mean - overstating the case does no one any good, only makes it easier to dismiss the anti-nuclear movement.

I'm a little shocked that none of these protests in Japan have made the news sites, not even at the bottom of the lowest column.

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Saturday, June 30, 2012 10:46 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


Hi Mal4Prez

I realize you posted to SignyM, but I wanted to comment.

I check ENENEWS every morning and night. I'd LIKE to think that if something significant happened it would show up on the web page of CNN, NYTimes, YAHOO News, UPI, AFP, Reuters or other major internet news outlet. But then the fact that the SPF 4 cooling system is down seems significant to me, and I haven't seen it highlighted in a major internet outlet yet either.

I'm not obsessing just to obsess - the family has a plan to carry out should SPF 4 go, so there's a reason to keep tabs. If we didn't have a plan, I'd probably just close my eyes and plug my ears. B/c why track something every day /so anxiety provoking, so enraging as the cluster-fuck that is Fukushima/, if you're not going to do anything about it?

Way back when, when all this happened, the thing I remarked on repeatedly was how QUIET all the governments and international news outlets were about what as going on, what was being done, and what was planned to be done; with absolutely NO criticism of the Japanese government and NO release of any information outside of tightly controlled reassuring press releases. China is no particular friend of Japan, and neither is S Korea, and yet they were and remain silent. As does the US government. /The silence was and remains deafening./

I had speculated to myself how much did governments know, but SignyM and others pointed out that as the US is certainly spying on N Korea for signs of nuclear activity, surely they could aim their detectors on Japan and find out what they needed to know.

Now I find out that the US government did way more than peer from outer space, they did up-close and personal radiation grid flights and discovered a deeply radioactive plume over Japan. (Japanese) Government ignored U.S. radiation monitoring data in days after 3/11 http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201206180048 and "The data was provided to Japanese government officials, but not released to the public." Coupled with the fact that I had been in email contact with a person living in Japan who reported to me a very secretive process going on at the US Embassy with sanitized press releases coming out a few hours later has made me very, VERY suspicious of the /official/ information process.

So where I am now is caught between the endless doom and gloom of ENENWS and the suspicion I'll get no news at all from elsewhere.

So, I and some people were discussing Fukushima today after I was told about this development (I wasn't at home to do my daily spin thru the site). The upshot of the train of thought I heard, which I haven't been able to dispute to myself at this time, goes like this: if the outcome of something going wrong is devastatingly unsupportable, you shouldn't do it at all no matter how low the risk. B/c SHOULD something go wrong, you will be inescapably hosed.

And that made me step back and reflect on how we got to this state today about Fukushima. It's not like it's not a still problem. The cores are still melted, still active, still creating heat and still releasing radioactivity. SPF 4 is tottering. And all of them are ready to fail in vast ways should the cooling fail for any reason at all, but especially SPF 4. And how did we arrive at the condition where this is NOT NEWS? How is it that even starting to approach failure at Fukushima (loss of SPF 4 cooling, 'Fukushima radiation sizzling at 10 sieverts in flooded basement of unit 1') is NOT news, especially when news could mean the loss off our world as we know it?


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Saturday, June 30, 2012 10:47 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


doppelganger

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Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:54 PM

OONJERAH



CONSEQUENCES: From Dr. Paul Gailey, Ph.D., President & CEO of Holophi,
CHAG’s April 12, 2012 Paper => http://enformable.com/2012/06/nuclear-engineer-identifies-mechanism-fo
r-potential-catastrophic-drain-down-of-fukushima-unit-4-spent-fuel-pool
/

Estimating the Potential Impact of Failure of theFukushimaDaiichi Unit 4 Spent Fuel Pool

“A Local Problem for Japan or a Global Mega Crisis?”

The following Consequences are identified for a Loss of Spent Fuel Pool Level . . .


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Sunday, July 1, 2012 8:28 AM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


Tepco: Cooling system back on at Spent Fuel Pool No. 4

temperatures at 42.9C


BTW, two generally useful websites:

Don't know how long a kilometer is, how deep is a league, how heavy a kilogram, OR HOW HOT A CELSIUS DEGREE is? For those questions and more, convert-me.com is here http://www.convert-me.com/en/ .


Want to look up scientific studies? Read abstracts? Purchase research papers? Google scholar NO LONGER AVAILABLE THROUGH GOOGLE MENU is here http://scholar.google.com/schhp?hl=en&tab=ws .

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Sunday, July 1, 2012 3:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


There was a petition sent to the Japanese PM not to re-start nuclear plants, signed by seven million people. Seven million. There was a demonstration of 50,000 people around the PM's office for the same reason.

The coverage in the MSM???

Nary a peep.

Also, I listened to a very detailed and knowledgeable discussion abut how San Onofre get so messed up. The real reason for the unusual damage and corrosion of the tubes (carrying high-pressure hot, radioactive water) was because the operator wanted to goose the energy output by about 4%, and modified the design which introduced change in operation (a steam bubble at the top of the tubes) which caused the tubes to rattle so hard they banged into each other and caused leaks.

Now, here's the kicker:

San Onofre has a "loose parts monitor"... basically, a sonic pickup in the reactor to monitor for exactly that: loose parts. THEY HEARD THE TUBES BANGING AGAINST EACH OTHER FOR 10 MONTHS AND IGNORED IT. SO DID THE NRC.

And then, when the leaks developed they acted all surprised, like they didn't know what happened.

Main stream media??

Dead quiet.

I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Sunday, July 1, 2012 4:40 PM

OONJERAH


Quote Signym, "I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us
in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be,
we would string them up."

Now there's a statement that should go down in history.

No matter what the Law is, I believe we've come to a time when human rights
are a joke. We're gonna need a new Magna Carta.

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Sunday, July 1, 2012 4:45 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


Can I use this as my sig line?


SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Monday, July 2, 2012 6:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup,
Quote:

"I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.
About sums it up. As to why nothing on the media, that surprises you?? The audience would rather hear about the Kardashians, and if they got riled up about some far-away nuclear shit, they'd just be upset (and would probably change channels post haste). You know that.

Thanx Sig...I think! We're still waiting for those tons of garbage from Fukishima and the tsunami to start littering our shores out here on the West Coast...that's quite worrying enough for me...

But I do thank you for updating us. Better to know than be ignorant, however much it hurts, in my opinion. I've pretty much written us off as having passed tipping point as it is, so what's one more thing?


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Monday, July 2, 2012 6:58 AM

OONJERAH



How can you people even think about a spent fuel pool in Japan
when Katie Holmes is divorcing Tom Cruise?



=========================
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. ~Charles R Swindoll

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Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The nuclear crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant in Japan was a "man-made disaster" that unfolded as a result of collusion between the facility's operator, regulators and the government, an independent panel said in an unusually frank report Thursday.

The report by the Fukushima Nuclear Accident Independent Investigation Commission outlines errors and willful negligence at the plant before the earthquake and tsunami that devastated swaths of northeastern Japan on March 11 last year, and a flawed response in the hours, days and weeks that followed. It also offers recommendations and encourages the nation's parliament to "thoroughly debate and deliberate" the suggestions.

The crippled Fukushima Daiichi plant spewed radiation and displaced tens of thousands of residents from the surrounding area in the worst nuclear accident since the 1986 Chernobyl disaster in Ukraine.

Commissioned by the national parliament, the panel's report tellingly blames Japanese culture for the fundamental causes of the disaster.

As well as detailing the specific failings related to the accident, the report describes a Japan in which nuclear power became "an unstoppable force, immune to scrutiny by civil society."

"Its regulation was entrusted to the same government bureaucracy responsible for its promotion," the commission said.

Contradicting claims by Tokyo Electric Power Co., or TEPCO, the operator of the plant, the report said that "the direct causes of the accident were all foreseeable prior to March 11, 2011."

The operator, regulators and the government "failed to correctly develop the most basic safety requirements -- such as assessing the probability of damage, preparing for containing collateral damage from such a disaster, and developing evacuation plans," the commission said.

Following the quake and tsunami, the lack of training and knowledge of the TEPCO workers at the facility reduced the effectiveness of the response to the situation at a critical time, according to the report.

As the crisis escalated, TEPCO, the regulators, government agencies and the prime minister's office were ineffective in "preventing or limiting the consequential damage" at Fukushima Daiichi, the commission said.

The prime minister's office didn't promptly declare a state of emergency, the commission noted. And chains of command were disrupted amid the crisis, creating confusion, it said. Meanwhile, communication failures about critical decisions undermined trust between the different parties.

The report's authors -- led by Kiyoshi Kurokawa, a former president of the Science Council of Japan -- attributed the failings at the plant before and after March 11 specifically to Japanese culture.

"What must be admitted -- very painfully -- is that this was a disaster 'Made in Japan,' " the report said. "Its fundamental causes are to be found in the ingrained conventions of Japanese culture: our reflexive obedience; our reluctance to question authority; our devotion to 'sticking with the program.' "More at http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/world/asia/japan-fukushima-report/index.
html?hpt=hp_bn2
surprises exactly whom?

There's also "Fukushima plant operator: We weren't prepared for nuclear accident" at http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/world/asia/japan-fukushima-report/index.
html
] and "Fukushima residents call for criminal charges against nuclear officials" at http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/11/world/asia/japan-nuclear-complaint/i
ndex.html
], none of which surprises anyone either, no doubt.

Ahhh, the brilliance of hindsight and blame, they "fix" things so wonderfully...


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Thursday, July 5, 2012 11:33 AM

OONJERAH



I do hope the nuclear plants here in California get better maintenance.
We have four in operation? I want them dismantled ASAP, too.

CA is a roadmap of earthquake faults, same as Japan. But if it weren't,
there are many other ways for things to go deadly, as history shows.

"Nuclear Power in the World Today"
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf01.html

The first commercial nuclear power stations started operation in the 1950s.

There are now over 430 commercial nuclear power reactors operating in 31
countries, with 372,000 MWe of total capacity.

They provide about 13.5% of the world's electricity as continuous, reliable
base-load power, and their efficiency is increasing.

56 countries operate a total of about 240 research reactors and a further
180 nuclear reactors power some 150 ships and submarines.


=========================
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. ~Charles R Swindoll

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Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:13 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I agree with Oonj, we need to finish up using nuclear power and find a new option.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Friday, July 6, 2012 12:25 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Well given the media is part and parcel of the social conditioning I am trying to sabotage, I would expect no less - there's also a certain amount of "supply creates demand" - if they're so desperately pushing celebrity tripe as a distraction, that is the audience they'll wind up selling to, and new 'users' come unaware that there's such a thing as journalism.



Quote:

I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

Oh and don't they bloody KNOW it.
Quote:

"If the people knew what we had done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us." -- George HW Bush

Problem is, when someone DOES know, and tries to spread that info, that's when said conditioning kicks in - honestly, how much fekkin proof does it bloody require ?
Always more than available, that's how much, cause they don't WANT to believe it, and so they don't.
And for that... well... my sympathy for such enablers is waning fast, what little there was to begin with.


Oojie?
Quote:

No matter what the Law is, I believe we've come to a time when human rights are a joke. We're gonna need a new Magna Carta.

Might I suggest a MAGNUM carta instead, preferably in 50AE and backed up by a guillotene, hmmm ?

*SCHWICKKK*!!!

Problem. Solved.

-Frem

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 10:19 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


This was sent to me, so I thought I'd pass it on:


Abstract

Holophi

Extreme opinions are being voiced about the risk of global catastrophe resulting from a possible collapse of the Fukushima Daiichi unit 4 spent fuel pool. These claims are appearing mostly among the public through internet media and other non-official channels. Official sources remain largely mute on the subject or downplay the risks. This report provides an approximate bounding of the risks using available data. The results of this analysis suggest that a nominal release of 10% of the SFP 4 inventory of cesium and strontium would represent 3-­10 times the March 2011 release amounts, substantially increasing risk levels in Japan and impacting marine elease amounts, could result in significant global impact.

Introduction

... This building was seriously damaged by a hydrogen explosion. The spent fuel pool, which is located about 30 meters above ground, is considered to be in danger of collapsing.
The infrastructure for moving he fuel assemblies was rendered inoperable by the explosion, and high radiation levels make it extremely difficult to clear debris, perform repairs, o construct a new system for removing the assemblies. The cooling system for the spent fuel pool was also destroyed by the explosion, and Tepco has positioned temporary hoses to pump water into the pool for cooling. They have also installed steel pillars to help support the pool.

Reason for Concern

The unit 4 spent fuel pool (SFP) co the unit 4 building was damaged by an explosion, the spent fuel pool is in danger of collapsing. If the pool collapses or develops serious cracks allowing the cooling water to drain, the fuel rods will be exposed to the environment. These concerns are elevated by a recent report that additional large earthquakes (magnitude 7) are expected in the area (Tong et al., 2012).

Spent fuel pools are not protected in the same way as reactor cores, and the unit 4 building is seriously damaged. Thus, there is no obvious second line of defense protecting the environment from the radioactive fuel and secondary isotopes if water cooling is lost.

The water surrounding the fuel rods in the spent fuel pools serves two purposes: First, it conducts heat away from the fuel assemblies to avoid overheating. Second, it provides shielding from extremely high radiation levels near the rods. If a collapse or breakage of the unit 4 spent fuel pool occurs, the loss of shielding by the cooling water could critically increase radiation levels i the entire Daiichi complex. Hig radiation is already a serious problem limiting worker and even robot access to the plant to perform repairs and mitigation, and to maintain cooling of the other spent fuel pools and reactors. Thus, a catastrophic failure of the unit 4 spent fuel pool could potentially cascade into additional releases from the other spent fuel pools and reactors.





"Always be the cook, the cook always eats."

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