REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Talk.

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Thursday, April 12, 2012 14:04
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Sunday, April 8, 2012 8:21 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

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Sunday, April 8, 2012 9:21 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Well, you have already expressed most of these ideas here on the forum.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________
Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196
Never forget what this man is. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.”
--Thomas S. Szasz

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Sunday, April 8, 2012 9:43 AM

WHOZIT


Great, they want to give me advice on how to deal with half the people I work with. Maybe Black People should come with an owners manual? Or maybe "I" should?

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Sunday, April 8, 2012 10:06 AM

HKCAVALIER


"Only one black in six is more intelligent than the average white; five whites out of six are more intelligent than the average black." Funny.

"In that pool of forty million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized blacks. (I’ll use IWSB as an ad hoc abbreviation.) You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice." This is the Onion, right?

Is there an equivalent talk for boys their daddies can give them about "statistically" inferior women whom they nonetheless must befriend (at least the few intelligent and sexually attractive women--ISAW for short) to gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of sexism?

I think this video says it best:



HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, April 8, 2012 10:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, that didn't take long.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/08/john-derbyshire-fired-arti
cle-african-americans?newsfeed=true



Apparently they didn't really mind him being a self-admitted racist, but they got uncomfortable when he started using the magazine's name to sell his particular brand of racism.

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Sunday, April 8, 2012 10:31 AM

KPO

"Love is natural and real. But not for you my love. Not tonight my love..."


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Get your popcorn ready, this should be a good one.

http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire#a
xzz1rBeqdcIl


http://globalgrind.com/news/the-talk-non-black-John-Derbyshire-trayvon
-martin-details



This must be one of those racist liberals you've warned us about, right Wulf?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, April 8, 2012 11:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sick. No, given the source I should say "predictable."



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Monday, April 9, 2012 5:57 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Yes, its racist. Yes, its harsh.

But.

Is it wrong?

Granted, some here would be afraid to say that it was. Some agree with it, but are so inured by their poli-social-brainwashing that they CAN'T.

Is this actually bad advice. Or just not P.C.?

(I don't agree with everything in it. The Good Samaritan part, especially.)

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Monday, April 9, 2012 6:43 AM

STORYMARK


Golly, Wulfie siding with a White Supremacist piece of shit?

Wish I was suprised.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, April 9, 2012 7:38 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:


Granted, some here would be afraid to say that it was.



Hello,

In usual form, Wulf's statements and assessments are BRAVE.

People who disagree are AFRAID.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________
Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196
Never forget what this man is. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.”
--Thomas S. Szasz

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Monday, April 9, 2012 7:43 AM

STORYMARK


It's kinda scary that he's breeding, and will pass on his cro-magnon views to a new generation.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, April 9, 2012 8:02 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
Yes, its racist. Yes, its harsh.

But.

Is it wrong?




Yes. It targets an entire group of people for no reason other than the color of their skin.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AwRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Monday, April 9, 2012 11:32 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Yes. It targets an entire group of people for no reason other than the color of their skin."

In Vietnam, soldiers were wary of women pushing strollers.

In Iraq/Afghanistan soldiers are wary of most anyone.

Stupid people can't tell the difference between Africans, dark-skinned latinos, and blacks.

I've been accused of living in a fantasy world....

Ok. I keep believing people are smarter than I see.

Take a walk in Detroit, Newark, 8th ward (Houston). Brooklyn. Chicago.

Its not skin color. Its culture.


Yes, trailer-park trash act the same way. So do Mexis. Its the culture of the left side of the bell-curve. But some groups end up on the wrong side of humanity, more than others.

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Monday, April 9, 2012 12:29 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


We're all from Africa originally.

Skin pigmentation is about absortion of vitamin d. Pale skin is a mutation that assisted in survival in an ice age in europe.

Most of us have little idea of our racial/ethnic origin further back than a few generations. Many countries in the world are such melting pots for races that it would be difficult to accurately pin anyone down on what they were.

Race identity is probably mostly about perception. How one perceives oneself and how one is perceived by others. Often those two things clash.

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Monday, April 9, 2012 12:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA



There's had it coming.
There's askin for it.

And then, then there's the dumb shit YOU do, Wulfenwhiner.

Lemme put it to you from a different angle, you being such a radical "patriot" and all.
This country, this nation, was FOUNDED on the principles of equality in response to a whole damn lot of religious, social, economic and other discrimination resulting in effectively a caste society which the whole lot of them, even the goddamned Federalists, despised, and rightly so!

And thus when they broke with the Government of the King, and formed their own, they penned a document, and within were these words.
Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That, Wulfie, does *NOT* reconcile with your racism and cultural bashing, with your intolerance, with your pathetic ego-driven NEED to perceive yourself as "better than", no, THAT hearkens back to the divine right of Kings, forments in the "Born Better/Born Bad" phonyass self-justification of the predatory, and finally lands square on the altar of Hate, as you practice and revel in the worship of the concept.

For all your pretense of holding to american ideals, your very conduct spits upon them with every foaming diatribe vomited forth from that festering pie-hole connected up to the corroded mass of quivering fear and paranoia which appears to substitute itself for a brain, in your case.
Because what really scares you, what terrifies you the worst, is that you are NOT "better than", that there is no inherent superiority...

And we are all merely - EQUAL.

And thus I name you for the Tory quisling milqetoast that you are, an affront to the entire meaning of the county which has the misforture to have claimed you, and bid you good day.

-Frem
"I do not serve The Blind God"

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Monday, April 9, 2012 12:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA


PS. I *live* up here next to Detroit - do you ?
Don't talk shit you know NOTHING about, child.

-F

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Monday, April 9, 2012 1:08 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

This is unquestionably true.

I don't argue against this, nor seek to say that it is an outdated ideology that doesn't meet the needs of a 21st century society.

Instead, I simply do 2 things.

One is post the musings of another person.

The second, ask you to disprove those ideas.

Let me give you some boundaries, however. Prove them (being the entirety of the article and its views) wrong (NOT in a moralistic point of view).

You want to say these ideas are wrong, go for it. But PROVE it using the scientific method.

This is not simply a moral question. In fact, for too long it has been framed as such.

Instead, I would argue, it is a scientific, survivalist question.

Take it point by point.




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Monday, April 9, 2012 1:19 PM

BYTEMITE


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

Quote:

The connection between race and intelligence has been a subject of debate in both popular science and academic research since the inception of intelligence testing in the early 20th century. There are no universally accepted definitions of either race or intelligence in academia, and any discussion of their connection involves studies from multiple disciplines, including psychology, anthropology, biology, and sociology.

The American Psychological Association has said that while there are differences in average IQ between racial groups, and there is no conclusive evidence for environmental explanations, "there is certainly no [direct empirical] support for a genetic interpretation," and no adequate explanation for the racial IQ gap is presently available.



I consider Wulf's assertions and proofs to be inconclusive. I also have little doubt that it will probably never be possible to prove any theories about race and intelligence and causes, for both political reasons and for the simple truth that it is, essentially, comparing apples to oranges, or meters to seconds, as the basic parameters vary far too much between groups and between individuals to get any useful data out of either. As such, I would propose that it's generally better to approach every person on a case by case basis, and I'd also propose that some attitudes are self-perpetuating and engender certain predictable responses.

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Monday, April 9, 2012 1:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
"Yes. It targets an entire group of people for no reason other than the color of their skin."

In Vietnam, soldiers were wary of women pushing strollers.

In Iraq/Afghanistan soldiers are wary of most anyone.




So do you think that the U.S. military is actively at war with black neighborhoods here in the U.S.? If not, I fail to see the correlation you're reeeeeeeeaaalllly stretching to try to link to.


Quote:


Stupid people can't tell the difference between Africans, dark-skinned latinos, and blacks.



Are they really different? Are they not human beings?


Quote:


I've been accused of living in a fantasy world....

Ok. I keep believing people are smarter than I see.

Take a walk in Detroit, Newark, 8th ward (Houston). Brooklyn. Chicago.

Its not skin color. Its culture.




So why was this racist warning his kids away from people of only one skin color? You yourself just said that it's not skin color.

BTW, I've been to the 8th Ward in Houston. Had some great BBQ there, and wasn't jumped, mugged, robbed, beaten threatened, or even looked at funny. I was welcomed, seated, and fed, all with a smile.

But according to you, that's simply not possible, is it?

Quote:


Yes, trailer-park trash act the same way. So do Mexis. Its the culture of the left side of the bell-curve. But some groups end up on the wrong side of humanity, more than others.



What's a "Mexi"? Is that a generic term you apply to anyone of Latino/Hispanic ancestry? Isn't your wife Latino? Your daughter? What are you saying about them?




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AwRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:44 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

This is unquestionably true.

I don't argue against this, nor seek to say that it is an outdated ideology that doesn't meet the needs of a 21st century society.

Instead, I simply do 2 things.

One is post the musings of another person.

The second, ask you to disprove those ideas.

Let me give you some boundaries, however. Prove them (being the entirety of the article and its views) wrong (NOT in a moralistic point of view).

You want to say these ideas are wrong, go for it. But PROVE it using the scientific method.

This is not simply a moral question. In fact, for too long it has been framed as such.

Instead, I would argue, it is a scientific, survivalist question.

Take it point by point.




First prove they are rigth. The buden of proof is always on the person making the claim, not the other way around.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
Instead, I simply do 2 things.

One is post the musings of another person.

The second, ask you to disprove those ideas.

Let me give you some boundaries, however. Prove them (being the entirety of the article and its views) wrong (NOT in a moralistic point of view).

You want to say these ideas are wrong, go for it. But PROVE it using the scientific method.


argumentum ad ignorantiam

Case Closed.

NEXT!

-Frem

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

This is unquestionably true.

I don't argue against this, nor seek to say that it is an outdated ideology that doesn't meet the needs of a 21st century society.

Instead, I simply do 2 things.

One is post the musings of another person.

The second, ask you to disprove those ideas.

Let me give you some boundaries, however. Prove them (being the entirety of the article and its views) wrong (NOT in a moralistic point of view).

You want to say these ideas are wrong, go for it. But PROVE it using the scientific method.

This is not simply a moral question. In fact, for too long it has been framed as such.

Instead, I would argue, it is a scientific, survivalist question.

Take it point by point.







Wulfie, can you PROVE - using the scientific method, of course - that we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

Can you use the scientific method to (a) PROVE a "Creator"; (b) PROVE that all men are truly created equal, with ALL of the same rights? All of them? Not just American citizens (the document doesn't say a word about that, remember), but EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE. After all, if it's "self evident", then it should be obvious where everyone truly has such rights, and where they don't.

I can disprove the second part with two words: Guantanamo Bay. Obviously not ALL men have the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, do they?

So now, having disposed of your entire premise for your argument, what say you?




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Conservative writer John Derbyshire, who was fired from The National Review in response to a racism-laden piece he wrote for a little-known website, serves up a 15-point alternative that nonblack parents should provide for their children. His suggestions are a rogue’s list of racist stereotyping and codified prejudices that even he admits his own daughter rejected as racist and offensive.

(Note: from an interview with Derbyshire:
Quote:

Have you given your children any of the advise outlined in your "The Talk: The Nonblack Version"? If so, how did they receive it?

Both took it with some skepticism, even some disgust in my daughter's case. So I'd have to say they weren't very receptive. But at least they've heard it, and know that there's another point of view besides the PC flapdoodle, a point of view held by non-crazy persons. One does one's best.



I read what Derbyshire wrote with open-mouth amazement. He’s someone I hadn’t paid a lot of attention to in the past, so I assumed this was some sort of Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert-like send up. Nobody would seriously say this, I thought.

I was wrong. Derbyshire, I’ve since learned, is a British-born uberconservative writer for The National Review. Or was. Apparently Derbyshire’s article proved too much for even National Review editor Rich Lowry, who sacked him after enduring withering criticism for employing him as a featured writer. In announcing his departure, Lowry wrote:
Quote:

His latest provocation, in a webzine, lurches from the politically incorrect to the nasty and indefensible. We never would have published it, but the main reason that people noticed it is that it is by a National Review writer. Derb is effectively using our name to get more oxygen for views with which we’d never associate ourselves otherwise. So there has to be a parting of the ways.
There was no other choice. The man had to be fired because he was bad for business, even if the business is spouting conservative views that some readers come to expect and uncounted others actually embrace.

In fact, a lot of this has been going around lately and Derbyshire is the latest in a string of hard-right conservative reactionaries losing their moorings. Pat Buchanan lost his highly visible (and lucrative) position on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” after writing an odious book lamenting the decline of white supremacy in the United States. More recently, Rush Limbaugh saw advertisers flee his syndicated radio talk show after he called Georgetown Law student and women's health advocate Sandra Fluke a "slut."

But perhaps there’s a larger and uplifting message in this trend of right-wing flameouts. Conor Friedersdorf, a writer for The Atlantic, seems to think so. He avers that hardline racist views find a receptive audience only among a dwindling number of older white Americans, mostly those for whom segregation and Jim Crow represented the good old days. Some of those folks read The National Review or watch “Morning Joe,” but not enough of them to make those media outlets profitable.

The future, especially one based on social media outlets, belongs to younger people. Even among the young who embrace conservative issues and policies, overt racist attitudes don’t work. In fact, many are offended by the blending of racism and their politics.

Friedersdorf makes this point rather dramatically by quoting Derbyshire’s own views as expressed in a 2003 interview where Derbyshire described the challenge of writing about race for a changing audience of conservative readers like those at The National Review. An older set of readers longed for stridently racist views that recall an earlier day. Younger conservative readers, he said, are “determined to make the multiracial society work.”

“On subjects related to race,” as Friedersdorf concludes and I agree, “that's a very good thing.”

Derbyshire, like Buchanan and Limbaugh, appealed to the losing side of the demographic trend. It’s only a matter of time before they’re historic relics of a time we all would rather forget. That’s the truth and not a joke. http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/04/rab_041012.html can only hope...

The man is a sick representation of everything that is wrong with people like him in EVERY country, not just here. Hopefully their day is done, and soon.



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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:34 AM

STORYMARK


I like the bit about it being the view of a "non-crazy person". Elicited a chuckle from me.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:52 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?



Well, um, I actually think that context is pretty important here. Whether there is or isn't a god, and whether the guy who wrote that owned slaves or not, the document was signed by people (some also slaveowners) who were willing to go to war because they felt that they weren't being allowed to make important decisions about their government and their economy.

As such I'm not sure it's so much a statement of how the world is, but rather an idealization of what people want the world to be like. That no matter where they are, they'd like anyone they met to have a basic appreciation that they are human, extend basic decency, and vice versa.

Cynical as I am, hypocrites they might have all been, that's not really something I can argue against.

As such I'm not really sure it's a point Wulf or any of us really wants to argue or dismiss. I think there are some other discussions to be had here.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I did, too. Obviously from what he wrote, these are Wulf's beliefs as well as DErbyshire's. Thank gawd he and Derbyshire reflect a dying breed. But that they should die quickly, and not procreate so that they pass on their sick views to the next generation (which obviously it's too late to keep Wulf from doing. I take heart that his children rejected Derbyshire's sick racism; I fear for Wulf's child.
Quote:

(11) The mean intelligence of blacks is much lower than for whites. The least intelligent ten percent of whites have IQs below 81; forty percent of blacks have IQs that low. Only one black in six is more intelligent than the average white; five whites out of six are more intelligent than the average black. These differences show in every test of general cognitive ability that anyone, of any race or nationality, has yet been able to devise. They are reflected in countless everyday situations. “Life is an IQ test.”

(12) There is a magnifying effect here, too, caused by affirmative action. In a pure meritocracy there would be very low proportions of blacks in cognitively demanding jobs. Because of affirmative action, the proportions are higher. In government work, they are very high. Thus, in those encounters with strangers that involve cognitive engagement, ceteris paribus the black stranger will be less intelligent than the white. In such encounters, therefore—for example, at a government office—you will, on average, be dealt with more competently by a white than by a black. If that hostility-based magnifying effect (paragraph 8) is also in play, you will be dealt with more politely, too. “The DMV lady“ is a statistical truth, not a myth.

(13) In that pool of forty million, there are nonetheless many intelligent and well-socialized blacks. (I’ll use IWSB as an ad hoc abbreviation.) You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice.

(14) Be aware, however, that there is an issue of supply and demand here. Demand comes from organizations and businesses keen to display racial propriety by employing IWSBs, especially in positions at the interface with the general public—corporate sales reps, TV news presenters, press officers for government agencies, etc.—with corresponding depletion in less visible positions. There is also strong private demand from middle- and upper-class whites for personal bonds with IWSBs, for reasons given in the previous paragraph and also (next paragraph) as status markers.

(15) Unfortunately the demand is greater than the supply, so IWSBs are something of a luxury good, like antique furniture or corporate jets: boasted of by upper-class whites and wealthy organizations, coveted by the less prosperous. To be an IWSB in present-day US society is a height of felicity rarely before attained by any group of human beings in history. Try to curb your envy: it will be taken as prejudice (see paragraph 13).

The article asks that a link to it be added to any quote from Derbyshire's screed; I won't do so and never would. Minds such as these don't deserve to be published, much less read!

As has been said, the burden of proof is on you (and Derbyshire) to prove this bullshit is TRUE. We don't have to prove anything. The article has been rejected by everyone except racists like you--it got Derbyshire fired from a VERY conservative organization, which speaks for itself. That you think it has any viability whatsoever speaks for itself as well

I assume you will never get past expanding your own small experiences to the greater world, but the greater world out here rejects you and Derbyshire both; only small people like you, scattered here and there, are still sick enough to take it seriously. It SHOULD have been an April Fool's joke...and even then, it would be offensive to all thinking people, and recognized for the disgusting rant it is.



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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:02 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?



Well, um, I actually think that context is pretty important here. Whether there is or isn't a god, and whether the guy who wrote that owned slaves or not, the document was signed by people (some also slaveowners) who were willing to go to war because they felt that they weren't being allowed to make important decisions about their government and their economy.

As such I'm not sure it's so much a statement of how the world is, but rather an idealization of what people want the world to be like. That no matter where they are, they'd like anyone they met to have a basic appreciation that they are human, extend basic decency, and vice versa.

Cynical as I am, hypocrites they might have all been, that's not really something I can argue against.

As such I'm not really sure it's a point Wulf or any of us really wants to argue or dismiss. I think there are some other discussions to be had here.




Oh, no doubt, Byte; it's a laudable goal, but it's a long way from an unquestionable fact. Sure, we might WANT these "truths" to be universal and "unalienable", but the fact is, even today, that's not the case, even within our own borders, much less outside them.

And I wouldn't have pointed it out, except Wulfie brought it up as if it were some kind of magical amulet to strike down any arguments against his underlying racism. He holds dear his hatred of "the other" - be they liberals, blacks, "Mexis" (I note for the record he's still dodging my questions on that one, apparently afraid to give an honest accounting of himself), or what have you - and he holds it as it were a "self evident" truth that cannot be dismissed, disproved, or even argued against.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:11 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"I did, too. Obviously from what he wrote, these are Wulf's beliefs as well as DErbyshire's. Thank gawd he and Derbyshire reflect a dying breed. But that they should die quickly, and not procreate so that they pass on their sick views to the next generation (which obviously it's too late to keep Wulf from doing. I take heart that his children rejected Derbyshire's sick racism; I fear for Wulf's child."

Actually, Niki. You, and yours, are a dying breed. Feel that? Its age creeping up on you. Hurts a little more getting up in the morning, doesn't it? Thank GOD, you and your kind are finally starting to die off. Its just a matter of time. "Getting old, but still a hippie at heart..."

And considering that you and your kind are so spoiled and selfish that you couldn't even conceive of having children (THANK GOD), your philosophy is finally fucking dying.

Its up to those of us who suffered through your generations assclownery to rule the world. And many of us, have figured out that your life-style, belief-system, idiocy were false.

You die, your sick beliefs die with you. And the world is better for it.

Hurry up already.

AND, part of throwing off the nonsense your kind has foisted on us, is the ridiculous idea that we have to continue to suffer from "white-guilt". Hispanics, Asians, Whites are tired of it.

Like you cast off the idea of being "born-with-sin", we cast off the same.

You rise and fall on your own. I don't owe anyone anything.

As for my daughter. Watch your mouth you stupid fucking bitch.




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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:18 AM

STORYMARK


Yeah, Wulfie hates Niki - we know that, with her "sick beliefs" like people are equal.

Yet he still can't muster the balls to address actual points. Funny how the ones that talk biggest (and someone as drunk on self delusions as Wulfie talks a BIG game) are the least capable of defendiong their ideas.

Lets hope his progeny is better equipped, but she's going to have a tough climb to competence, with such an example at home. His sick beliefs will poison that poor child.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:22 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


I happy to know that within you daughter's life time she will be a minority in this country. That is something she will have to deal with. It is also something that dispite you she will. The youth of today are not caught up with the color of people's skin or their sexual orientation. It is the social conservatives that are dying off, not the hippies!

Oh, and remember your post the first time your daughter is called a bitch.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
"I did, too. Obviously from what he wrote, these are Wulf's beliefs as well as DErbyshire's. Thank gawd he and Derbyshire reflect a dying breed. But that they should die quickly, and not procreate so that they pass on their sick views to the next generation (which obviously it's too late to keep Wulf from doing. I take heart that his children rejected Derbyshire's sick racism; I fear for Wulf's child."

Actually, Niki. You, and yours, are a dying breed. Feel that? Its age creeping up on you. Hurts a little more getting up in the morning, doesn't it? Thank GOD, you and your kind are finally starting to die off. Its just a matter of time. "Getting old, but still a hippie at heart..."

And considering that you and your kind are so spoiled and selfish that you couldn't even conceive of having children (THANK GOD), your philosophy is finally fucking dying.

Its up to those of us who suffered through your generations assclownery to rule the world. And many of us, have figured out that your life-style, belief-system, idiocy were false.

You die, your sick beliefs die with you. And the world is better for it.

Hurry up already.

AND, part of throwing off the nonsense your kind has foisted on us, is the ridiculous idea that we have to continue to suffer from "white-guilt". Hispanics, Asians, Whites are tired of it.

Like you cast off the idea of being "born-with-sin", we cast off the same.

You rise and fall on your own. I don't owe anyone anything.

As for my daughter. Watch your mouth you stupid fucking bitch.






Hello,

Quoted for Reference.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________
Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196
Never forget what this man is. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.”
--Thomas S. Szasz

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:31 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Testing Update.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:32 AM

AGENTROUKA


I kind of have to agree that Wulf's kid should be left out of all these discussions. It's in bad taste to keep bringing her up.

That said, I find it in equally bad taste to equate not having children with being selfish. WHO has kids to fulfill some kind of social obligation? No one. People have kids because they want to (or that should be the only reason) and that's no more or less selfish than choosing not to have them.


Also: That article was one of the more disturbing things I have ever read. This guy is talking about human beings as if they were feral dogs or objects. Towards the end he directly compares them to objects. His use of "the pleasures of friendship" is an absolutely sickening rape of the very concept of friendship.

Also like his "scientific" play with statistics. "In his experience" yxz percent of black people are violently racist towards white people and "half" are happy to passively support such violence. The entire basis for his "avoid all black people" safety talk is basically pulled out of his ass. But hey, so many links to random articles about individual cases! So meaningful!


I, too, am heartened that his children didn't buy his hate-filled advice and this makes me feel pretty confident that not-hating is NOT dying out.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:39 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I kind of have to agree that Wulf's kid should be left out of all these discussions.


Hello,

I agree. I wish Wulf would stop bringing her up or linking to 'talks' he thinks she needs to hear in order to round out her education and understanding of the world.

But recent statements have suggested to me that it is time to give up on Wulf.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:03 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Problem Agent,

is that more and more of people are living with the fallout of decades of this nonsense.

America, as I understand its intent, is that we are all equal. You rise, you fall, and hopefully the government stays out of your way.

But, this is not how its been.

For too long we've been fed a red-slime of political-correctness.

While ignoring what this actually creates.

MLK said "... but by the content of their character."

How does that fit with "hate-crimes", "affirmative-action"?

If, just if, we were all held to the standard of being on our own... this wouldn't even be a problem. If things were fair, if things were right, you would rise or fall on your own. No government hand-outs, no welfare, no corporate meandering. You stood, and did the best you could. The end.

But look where we are now. Look how far we've fallen from the ideal of the individual.

We have all sorts of groups here. One (or many) expects special treatment for their religiosity, one for their sexual-orientation, one for their illegal status, one for their... well the list is endless.

As to this article... its not that he is wrong, its that he is RIGHT which upsets people.

That says more about the subject than the writer.

Would that article have worked if it was written about Asians?


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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:20 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:

MLK said "... but by the content of their character."



Nothing in this article attempts to judge people by the content of their character, you realize that, right? It's a work of bogus statistics and "averages" that broadly sweeps all black people into the realm of "threat to personal safety" and recommends all but the most limited contact. Where it doesn't stamp them violently hostile and "less competent", it freely likens them to objects that can be assets to white people.

Nothing about this respects the individual.



Quote:


As to this article... its not that he is wrong, its that he is RIGHT which upsets people.

That says more about the subject than the writer.

Would that article have worked if it was written about Asians?




I don't think it worked as it is. At all. It might if he was writing about vampires. Or vicious dogs. I don't know.

I'm sure some IWSV (intelligent and well-socialized vampires) might be an asset to befriend, a rare commodity that both employers and other non-vampires would covet. It might be wise to avoid all-vampire neighborhoods. Or leave any gathering where vampire numbers suddenly swell. Or not stop to help out a stranded vampire.

They actually live off our blood, so the blanket threat makes sense in that case. You know? But human beings?

This is not a good article to use when illustrating your anti-anti-discrimination legislation views. Because it's not really about that. It's really about regarding dark-skinned people as sub-human.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:

MLK said "... but by the content of their character."



Nothing in this article attempts to judge people by the content of their character, you realize that, right? It's a work of bogus statistics and "averages" that broadly sweeps all black people into the realm of "threat to personal safety" and recommends all but the most limited contact. Where it doesn't stamp them violently hostile and "less competent", it freely likens them to objects that can be assets to white people.

Nothing about this respects the individual.



Quote:


As to this article... its not that he is wrong, its that he is RIGHT which upsets people.

That says more about the subject than the writer.

Would that article have worked if it was written about Asians?




I don't think it worked as it is. At all. It might if he was writing about vampires. Or vicious dogs. I don't know.

I'm sure some IWSV (intelligent and well-socialized vampires) might be an asset to befriend, a rare commodity that both employers and other non-vampires would covet. It might be wise to avoid all-vampire neighborhoods. Or leave any gathering where vampire numbers suddenly swell. Or not stop to help out a stranded vampire.

They actually live off our blood, so the blanket threat makes sense in that case. You know? But human beings?

This is not a good article to use when illustrating your anti-anti-discrimination legislation views. Because it's not really about that. It's really about regarding dark-skinned people as sub-human.




Boom. That's it, right there. Wulfie of course agrees with the "science" of this article, because it so closely hews to his preconceived notions and beliefs. He never even thought to question whether or not it was a valid article based on valid numbers and facts. And it's not.

Heck, I can make as strong a case for teaching children to avoid bankers, investors, and stock traders, just going on what we all "know" about them: They're shady, they engage in regular illegal activity, they stick together in a gang and are out to stalk and rob others at any cost, they frequent brothels and strip joints, they have a tendency to be unfaithful, etc.

So when you see a group of investment bankers, do you reach for your shotgun, Wulfie? Will you teach your daughter to see the Wall Street crowd (overwhelmingly white, by the way) as "the enemy"?

Nice to see that you're worried about how your daughter is and will be treated, though. Even more precious is that you feel the need to insult someone else's femininity in trying to watch out for her, by calling Niki (and I quote) a "barren succubus" and a "stupid fucking bitch".

Your daughter has the deck stacked against her as long as you are in her life.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:44 AM

STORYMARK


Im sure it will be very tough growing up in the 21st century when raised by a cave man.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Agent,

"It's really about regarding dark-skinned people as sub-human."

Some Asians are dark-skinned. Indians as well (dots, not feathers). Hispanics too.

No. This addresses a specific subset culture, native to American (and even, British) society.

ACTUAL African-Americans, those who are in the process of becoming Americans, are disdained by this specific subset culture.

The author is right. It sucks, but he is. This article could not play for any other group, or subset (without being tweeked for said specific grouping).

You could write one for Mexicans, for Hispanics, for Asians, for Whites. You would have to change things, but it would still work.

So, why the argument? Why the horrible, gut-churning, reaction?

Is it because it groups all one subset, and bashes them? Ok. If that is so wrong then why do so many do it? Why is one ok, and the other is not?

Before you say different... google "white male". "Christian", "liberal", "conservative", "democrat", "Mexican", "illegal", or a hundred other types.

The truth of the matter is, this author nailed it on this specific sub-group.

But to acknowledge that, is to be labeled racist. Google racist. Then google reverse-racism.

He has it right.

You want a REAL starting point in talking "race-relations" in this country? Start here, start with this article. Acknowledge the truth of it, and move forward from there. Otherwise...just keep on, keeping on. Same old, same old. Breed anger, bitterness, hatred.

Blacks may have some grievances(whites especially). But the rest of the world has grievances against blacks.

Lay them out. Lets start there.




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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:07 PM

STORYMARK


Still waiting for you to prove your claim, using the scientific method (your own standard). Or are you a coward?

Come on, you're so sure of your position,l that this moron you stand by is so RIGHT - well, prove it, ya pussy.

Im willing to bet you won't.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:11 PM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

The author is right. It sucks, but he is. This article could not play for any other group, or subset (without being tweeked for said specific grouping).



Wulf.

I disagree, I disagree, I disagree.

This article does not work for ANY group. Because it fails to talk about human beings and instead talks about a sub-human category of objects.

Do you not see the inherent inhumanity and indignity in that? He is not addressing grievances. He is trying to legitimize paranoid social separation. It's not about dialogue with a group, it's about avoiding any contact with the entire group. Based on figures he freely states are unproven figments of his own imagination or "experience".

Seriously, you do not need to defend this article. It does nothing to support what you think it supports. He is not talking about personal responsibility, he is not talking about individual merit, he is not talking about culture. He is talking hate-filled, pseudo-genetic biological "value" of different races - straight out of the 19th century. Or 1933. Seriously.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:11 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

That said, I find it in equally bad taste to equate not having children with being selfish. WHO has kids to fulfill some kind of social obligation? No one. People have kids because they want to (or that should be the only reason) and that's no more or less selfish than choosing not to have them.


I couldn't subject that hell upon anyone, let alone someone I'm supposed to care for. ._. We're talking "accidentally stabs someone with knives in my sleep" here, let alone my wonderful upbeat waking personality.

Imagine that child. Imagine them, dressed in a potato sack, with head lice, trying to get my attention when I just don't care, or cringing away from my fits of room destroying rage and acidic hatred. Imagine the world view I would pass on to them.

Wulf's child will be adored. I have no doubts about this. I don't agree with Wulf's viewpoints, but I won't question whether he can care for his kid. We really should leave his kid out of this.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
Agent,

"It's really about regarding dark-skinned people as sub-human."

Some Asians are dark-skinned. Indians as well (dots, not feathers). Hispanics too.



And there are lots of people who view them as sub-human. You, for one.

Quote:


No. This addresses a specific subset culture, native to American (and even, British) society.

ACTUAL African-Americans, those who are in the process of becoming Americans, are disdained by this specific subset culture.



Do you imagine there are a lot of "African-Americans" in British society?


Quote:


The author is right. It sucks, but he is. This article could not play for any other group, or subset (without being tweeked for said specific grouping).

You could write one for Mexicans, for Hispanics, for Asians, for Whites. You would have to change things, but it would still work.

So, why the argument? Why the horrible, gut-churning, reaction?

Is it because it groups all one subset, and bashes them? Ok. If that is so wrong then why do so many do it? Why is one ok, and the other is not?

Before you say different... google "white male". "Christian", "liberal", "conservative", "democrat", "Mexican", "illegal", or a hundred other types.




So you're admitting that when I say something about all those racist tea-baggers, I'm making a valid point, because it's okay to label a whole subset based on the actions of a few?

Quote:


The truth of the matter is, this author nailed it on this specific sub-group.

But to acknowledge that, is to be labeled racist. Google racist. Then google reverse-racism.

He has it right.

You want a REAL starting point in talking "race-relations" in this country? Start here, start with this article. Acknowledge the truth of it, and move forward from there. Otherwise...just keep on, keeping on. Same old, same old. Breed anger, bitterness, hatred.



So you want us all to "acknowledge the truth" of something which has not a shred of truth in it? Sorry, but no, thank you. As for breeding anger, bitterness, and hatred, don't you already have that under control? ;)

Quote:

Blacks may have some grievances(whites especially). But the rest of the world has grievances against blacks.


Does it?






"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:10 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Oh ... my. This article is grotty, do people actually think this way about other people?

For one thing, if this article were true, there'd be a lot more African Americans with developmental differences running around, and there really aren't that many, unless Wulf has them all locked up in his basement because he sees them as subhuman. Just that piece of the article alone is enough to clue the thinking man into the idea that its bogus, much less the other tripe in there.

Hi Rouca, I want to see more of you, you can effectively refute Wulf's points while still treating him like a human being.

What I've discovered about talking about someone's kids if they didn't bring them up, is that you have to do it sideways if you're going to do it. I have done it in an insulting fashion once, but I did it sideways, because to come right out and mention them in an argument is plain bad taste. When you do it sideways they know what you're doing, but it isn't breaking the social taboo of not doing it blatently. Blatent reference to someone's kids in an argument is just mean and irrelevent. But if you must do it, do it sideways, that's my policy.

I've noticed a similarity between Anthony and Raptor: Deliberate obtuseness. Raptor does it to try and avoid admitting he makes mistakes, he pretends he didn't understand what people are saying to him. Anthony does it during arguments to pretend like he didn't actually understand what was being said. Rouka says we shouldn't bring people's offspring into this debate, clearly referencing everyone bringing Wulf's daughter into the discussion. Anthony comes back with saying she's right, that _Wulf shouldn't ever mention his daughter. Well that makes a rutload of sense (sarcasm intended). This is something he and Raptor both do in discussions.

And if people don't want to have children they should ... surprise ... not have children, its simple really.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:33 PM

HKCAVALIER


Ach. Yetch. Jesus. So, is ol' Wulfman now done denying that he's a white supremacist? Because ya can't say that whites are superior to blacks and pretend you don't believe that whites are superior to blacks, y'know? We clear?

I dunno. I live in a black neighborhood in Seattle. Before I lived where I do now, I lived in another section of the black neighborhood (Central District) for a total of nearly 15 years and counting. No intention of moving. I've been to all-black churches. Nearly all-black political rallies. I shop at a mostly black grocery store (the Red Apple on 23rd is legendary for it's excellent Motown shopping music--people dancing in the aisles). Last year I let African Americans borrow my phone to call 911 when they were in a car wreck with some West Africans. I'm around plenty of blacks "not known to me personally" every day. Anyway. The point is: I'm still standing, never been shot at, never been physically attacked or intimidated by black people (white people are another story).

So there's my absolutely irrefutable scientific proof!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:43 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Anthony does it during arguments to pretend like he didn't actually understand what was being said.


Socratic method.

Quote:

that _Wulf shouldn't ever mention his daughter. Well that makes a rutload of sense (sarcasm intended).


Well... I think Anthony was implying that Wulf is using his kid to trollbait, which is different from just mentioning his daughter. I don't think Wulf did that in the previous thread, I think he was in his own way really asking us for advice, it just sometimes gets lost in the scuffle.

And I also don't really know if this thread was an example of that either, yes, it's a link to what a guy wants to tell his kid, and it's implied that Wulf is considering telling his own daughter this, but I really think that's tangential to the argument Wulf's been expressing.

Quote:

And if people don't want to have children they should ... surprise ... not have children, its simple really.



Yes.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 4:45 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Actually, Niki. You, and yours, are a dying breed. Feel that? Its age creeping up on you. Hurts a little more getting up in the morning, doesn't it? Thank GOD, you and your kind are finally starting to die off. Its just a matter of time. "Getting old, but still a hippie at heart..."

And considering that you and your kind are so spoiled and selfish that you couldn't even conceive of having children (THANK GOD), your philosophy is finally fucking dying.

Its up to those of us who suffered through your generations assclownery to rule the world. And many of us, have figured out that your life-style, belief-system, idiocy were false.

You die, your sick beliefs die with you. And the world is better for it.

Hurry up already.

AND, part of throwing off the nonsense your kind has foisted on us, is the ridiculous idea that we have to continue to suffer from "white-guilt". Hispanics, Asians, Whites are tired of it.

Like you cast off the idea of being "born-with-sin", we cast off the same.

You rise and fall on your own. I don't owe anyone anything.

As for my daughter. Watch your mouth you stupid fucking bitch.

Thank you, Anthony. I won't forget it, either. If Wulf EVER clamors for civility again, it'll be around to remind him, and to remind him that I have never, ever written to him anything even close to that, nor called him a succubus or any of the other filthy things he's called me.

That is the most disgusting piece of shit I've seen since what's-his-name (DAMN, I can never remember his name--can anyone remind me?) went after me; even Raptor is above that kind of filth.

Three notes:

1. I said they reflected a "dying breed" (which they do, as all studies I've ever seen indicate that racism and homophobia are slowly going out of style with younger generations), I never said Wulf himself should die;

2. No, it doesn't hurt more to get out of bed in the morning. If I do some strenuous activity, I get stiff; if I do something stupid with my back, I suffer pain. Both are true of people far younger than I.

3. Where the hell he got the idea that I in any way believe in white guilt or "born-with-sin" totally eludes me. I accept neither, ENERGETICALLY!

Beyond that, the only satisfaction I take is that I seem to have touched a nerve--what nerve, I have no idea, but Wulf has obviously become not just my detractor, but my enemy. Means nothing to me; I live in the real world. But it's sickening to read what his mind comes up with.

Uh, Byte and Riona, you still want to champion this guy? Ever see me write ANYTHING even close to this, or wish for his death or his pain? Shouldn't have taken you long to understand why there are bad feelings from many on this board toward him. Justifiably bad feelings. Just sayin'.



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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 5:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Ach. Yetch. Jesus. So, is ol' Wulfman now done denying that he's a white supremacist? Because ya can't say that whites are superior to blacks and pretend you don't believe that whites are superior to blacks, y'know? We clear?

I dunno. I live in a black neighborhood in Seattle. Before I lived where I do now, I lived in another section of the black neighborhood (Central District) for a total of nearly 15 years and counting. No intention of moving. I've been to all-black churches. Nearly all-black political rallies. I shop at a mostly black grocery store (the Red Apple on 23rd is legendary for it's excellent Motown shopping music--people dancing in the aisles). Last year I let African Americans borrow my phone to call 911 when they were in a car wreck with some West Africans. I'm around plenty of blacks "not known to me personally" every day. Anyway. The point is: I'm still standing, never been shot at, never been physically attacked or intimidated by black people (white people are another story).

So there's my absolutely irrefutable scientific proof!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.




Indeed - and it's every bit as valid and scientific as ANYTHING Wulfie has ever offered up.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 5:25 PM

BYTEMITE


I'm not taking sides. I don't think that the people who gang up on Wulf are the same level of insults as kaneman, of course not, and saying that someone should die is awful. But that doesn't mean the constant bashing that does go on doesn't grind a person down and isn't hard to watch in its own way. Saying someone shouldn't breed is pretty bad too. Wulf is the product of his upbringing and the environment which he grew up in, which apparently was very hostile. I happen to sympathize with that, even if I think his anger is misplaced, and therefore it is difficult for me to blame Wulf for what supposedly happened to him, any more than I can blame the people who did that to him.

In any case, you are STILL going after me and attacking my credibility? Saying that I agree with Wulf's opinion about race and this article he posted? Tossing Riona in with that?

I apologized to you god damn so many times, you never apologized to me ONCE, you pulled someone unrelated into this fight just because they're my friend, and I've even tried to leave a few times so I could leave you alone and vice versa but my willpower has not been strong enough.

Are you ever going to give me a break, or am I your enemy, always and forever? Because you seem to keep going after me and Riona. I'd like to be as little passive aggressive as possible for once here, and get this out in the open and clear the air once and for all. Because I don't know what is going on, if you're doing this intentionally, or what.

If you don't want to be nice to me, then don't. Simple as that.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2012 5:30 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

Actually, Niki. You, and yours, are a dying breed. Feel that? Its age creeping up on you. Hurts a little more getting up in the morning, doesn't it? Thank GOD, you and your kind are finally starting to die off. Its just a matter of time. "Getting old, but still a hippie at heart..."

And considering that you and your kind are so spoiled and selfish that you couldn't even conceive of having children (THANK GOD), your philosophy is finally fucking dying.

Its up to those of us who suffered through your generations assclownery to rule the world. And many of us, have figured out that your life-style, belief-system, idiocy were false.

You die, your sick beliefs die with you. And the world is better for it.

Hurry up already.

AND, part of throwing off the nonsense your kind has foisted on us, is the ridiculous idea that we have to continue to suffer from "white-guilt". Hispanics, Asians, Whites are tired of it.

Like you cast off the idea of being "born-with-sin", we cast off the same.

You rise and fall on your own. I don't owe anyone anything.

As for my daughter. Watch your mouth you stupid fucking bitch.

Thank you, Anthony. I won't forget it, either. If Wulf EVER clamors for civility again, it'll be around to remind him, and to remind him that I have never, ever written to him anything even close to that, nor called him a succubus or any of the other filthy things he's called me.

That is the most disgusting piece of shit I've seen since what's-his-name (DAMN, I can never remember his name--can anyone remind me?) went after me; even Raptor is above that kind of filth.



Kaneman, I think you're thinking of.


Quote:


Three notes:

1. I said they reflected a "dying breed" (which they do, as all studies I've ever seen indicate that racism and homophobia are slowly going out of style with younger generations), I never said Wulf himself should die;

2. No, it doesn't hurt more to get out of bed in the morning. If I do some strenuous activity, I get stiff; if I do something stupid with my back, I suffer pain. Both are true of people far younger than I.



Indeed. In WulfWorld, since I had a near-fatal motorcycle accident in 1982 and have dealt with chronic pain ever since, I should hurry up and die. I actually hurt less NOW than I did 15 years ago, because I've learned to manage the pain and deal with it in non-chemical ways. A really bad day for me is one that involves any kind of prescription drugs. Do I bound out of bed in the morning? Hardly. I wake up stiff and work it out. The harder I work, the better it gets, at least until I stop or sit down, whereupon I start to stiffen up again.

Quote:


3. Where the hell he got the idea that I in any way believe in white guilt or "born-with-sin" totally eludes me. I accept neither, ENERGETICALLY!



I *think* he was trying to say that "white guilt" is going away in his generation the way "born-with-sin" went away in ours. I don't carry a whole lot of white guilt, because (a) I never owned any slaves, and (b) my family were not slave-owners. Many of them were not here at the time, and the ones who were did not own slaves, and indeed fought with the Union Army to defeat slavery.


Quote:

Beyond that, the only satisfaction I take is that I seem to have touched a nerve--what nerve, I have no idea, but Wulf has obviously become not just my detractor, but my enemy. Means nothing to me; I live in the real world. But it's sickening to read what his mind comes up with.

Uh, Byte and Riona, you still want to champion this guy? Ever see me write ANYTHING even close to this, or wish for his death or his pain? Shouldn't have taken you long to understand why there are bad feelings from many on this board toward him. Justifiably bad feelings. Just sayin'.




I don't think they were "championing" him, just trying to give him what they saw as a fair shake. Many have tried, but I think all have ultimately failed. I think Anthony might have been the last hope to reach Wulf, but I fear even his civility has been worn thin.

Wulfie is that guy who really, really, REALLY wants that fabled Great Big Final War, because he's convinced himself that he's going to be a general and lead his armies to glory. What he doesn't realize is that his one-dimensional thinking and inability to adapt and change as circumstances warrant will render him nothing but a grunt, mere cannon fodder. If his long-dreamed-of war finally comes, Wulfie will be among the first killed.

I harbor no such illusions about my own abilities, and know with a fair degree of certainty that I'd likely not last much longer. And that's why I'm in no rush to stupidly barrel headlong into any such war.






"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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