REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

We should become more like Canada

POSTED BY: HARDWARE
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 20:15
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Monday, July 11, 2011 6:58 AM

HARDWARE


http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/national/article/142139--a
ppeal-court-rejects-illegal-immigrant-s-bid-for-government-health-care


Quote:


The Federal Court of Appeal has rejected an illegal immigrant's bid to have her medical treatments covered under Canada's healthcare system, saying it could undermine immigration laws and turn the country into a "health care safe haven."

The three-judge panel ruled against Nell Toussaint, a Grenadan citizen who came to Canada as a visitor in 1999 and settled in Toronto.

Toussaint's health began to deteriorate in 2006 and over the years, she suffered from a number of conditions, including uterine fibroids, blood clots, tumours and hypertension.

Unable to pay her medical bills, Toussaint applied to become a permanent resident in 2008 so she could be covered under Ontario's health insurance program. She also applied for a temporary residence permit.

But she didn't pay the application fees and as a result, neither request was considered.

She later sought medical coverage from the federal government under a 1957 Order in Council that provides emergency care for people making their way through the immigration system.

When the government refused, she brought the matter to federal court, arguing the decision violated her rights to life and security of the person under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The court dismissed her case.

A second appeal was shot down in a decision released Friday.

Justice David Stratas wrote in the decision Toussaint was not entitled to federal health coverage because she wasn't involved in the immigration process...


But just in the whole immigration thing. Not in the universal healthcare. Don't believe me, ask actress Natasha Richardson how great universal healthcare is.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Movies/story?id=7119825&page=1

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, July 11, 2011 7:07 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


eh?

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Monday, July 11, 2011 11:19 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Eh, it's the same here. You can't get free medical treatment unless you have residency. What's the deal?

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Monday, July 11, 2011 12:01 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:



But just in the whole immigration thing. Not in the universal healthcare. Don't believe me, ask actress Natasha Richardson how great universal healthcare is.



Then again, you could ask American actor John Ritter how good free enterprise American medical care is.

Or Sonny Bono.

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Monday, July 11, 2011 12:35 PM

BYTEMITE


Hmm, if her fibroids are throwing clots, they're pretty serious.

She might not have very long to live.

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Monday, July 11, 2011 2:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Okay, yeah, I ain't real nice about a lotta things, but yanno what ?
On this, the issue of medical care, PERIOD ?

Fuck money, fuck nationalism, if someone is ill and needs treatment - it's your goddamn duty to humanity, to yourself, to everything that makes us HUMAN, to treat them to the best of your capability.

Seriously, what kind of a person is someone who, having the ability, the knowledge, and possibly the resources to do so - turns away someone and leaves em hanging at the windy corner like that, even *I* find that offensive.

We need to take a good hard look at ourselves, in that we're all so okay with subsidizing slaughter, to the point where its impoverishing us as a nation, but begrudge every thin dime used to treat the sick or feed the hungry.

Are YOU okay with that ?
Cause I'm not.

PS. Anyone lauding such inhuman malice shows exactly what they are, don't they ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, July 11, 2011 3:20 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


So if Mel went to the emergency room up there, would they not treat her because of this ruling? Or does it only apply to things like doctors appts and continuing treatment? Just wondering.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, July 11, 2011 4:12 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
eh?



The obligatory Canada impression. I apologize, it had to be done.

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Monday, July 11, 2011 4:20 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
So if Mel went to the emergency room up there, would they not treat her because of this ruling? Or does it only apply to things like doctors appts and continuing treatment? Just wondering.



Don't know about all situations, but when Madame Geezer got ill a couple of years ago on a trip to Banff with her sisters, the emergency room wouldn't treat her, as a non-Canadian, until they had run her Visa card to be sure she could pay.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, July 11, 2011 5:02 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Okay, yeah, I ain't real nice about a lotta things, but yanno what ?
On this, the issue of medical care, PERIOD ?

Fuck money, fuck nationalism, if someone is ill and needs treatment - it's your goddamn duty to humanity, to yourself, to everything that makes us HUMAN, to treat them to the best of your capability.

Seriously, what kind of a person is someone who, having the ability, the knowledge, and possibly the resources to do so - turns away someone and leaves em hanging at the windy corner like that, even *I* find that offensive.

We need to take a good hard look at ourselves, in that we're all so okay with subsidizing slaughter, to the point where its impoverishing us as a nation, but begrudge every thin dime used to treat the sick or feed the hungry.

Are YOU okay with that ?
Cause I'm not.

PS. Anyone lauding such inhuman malice shows exactly what they are, don't they ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.



Yes and no, frem. I think anyone should be given emergency life saving treatment, but it is difficult when you have a free system if you are going to offer all those services to anyone who visits. You end up getting health tourists who will rip the system off and it could be catastrophic for the system.

Long term illegal immigrants must really have the shittiest of lives, no matter where they live. Much of the work force of many affluent nations is made up of such people, even legal migrant workers have a crap time, working for much less than locals and having no safety net or access of regular medical services. Sucks.

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Monday, July 11, 2011 7:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So maybe we should start putting credit card swipers in the ambulances. If you don't have a high enough credit limit (or can't prove you're really a "real" American), they just drive away and leave you on the street to die.

This IS what the GOP is advocating, after all. It's a REAL "death panel"; they just don't like to say it out loud. But make no mistake - this is exactly what they want.

It's part of their whole "pro-life" campaign platform. They get a kick out of ironic names, it seems. "Patriot" Act. "Homeland Security". "Fiscally responsible". "Compassionate conservative".

And the beat goes on...


Canadians should have to do what immigrants here have to do: move here and drop an anchor baby so they can load up on free healthcare. Hey, it worked for Schwarzeneggar!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, July 11, 2011 8:39 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Geezer, I bet that's not something that Michael Moore would ever show in one of his documentaries about how perfect everyone else's healthcare is. :)

No one's system is perfect, they all have pros and cons. I'm pretty sure that if someone winds up in the emergency room here, for an injury or heart attack at least, they will not be turned away. In regards to brain differences though its a chore to get them to keep you for a bit, even if you're supposed to be in the country. I had some folk I told to go get help there last week and I called the next day to see how things were going for them and, sure enough, the hospital wouldn't take him even though he was in a bad way and willing. He wouldn't say he wanted to end it all so they turned him and her out. Errrrrrrg.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, July 11, 2011 9:15 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Where do you live, Rione?

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So maybe we should start putting credit card swipers in the ambulances. If you don't have a high enough credit limit (or can't prove you're really a "real" American), they just drive away and leave you on the street to die.


Shit like that already happens, Mikey - leastways it did in Baltimore, and I know in Detroit.
HVA (local ambo service) demands proof of insurance before they do a goddamn thing, and you *WILL* recieve a bill for eight hundred bucks just for them showing up, even if YOU weren't the one who called em, like if someone sees you injured or sick and calls it in.

Why, exactly, do you think when I was layin on the floor riding the edge of death, I crawled to a table, dragged myself up, and staggered to the car, then drove myself to the clinic - rather than do the supposedly-sensible thing ?

The sheer inhumanity of our "health care" system is fuckin revolting, you ask me.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 8:57 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"We should become more like Canada"

Yes, we should. But with lots and lots of money being thrown towards the military and the very rich and powerful, and there not being enuf left over for education, infrastructure, health care and wages, we are becoming more like Mexico.

Sorry for the diversion.

Carry on.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"We should become more like Canada"

Yes, we should. But with lots and lots of money being thrown towards the military and the very rich and powerful, and there not being enuf left over for education, infrastructure, health care and wages, we are becoming more like Mexico.

Sorry for the diversion.

Carry on.




Yup. And our pay gap - the inequality between the rich and poor - is somewhere between Cameroon and Jamaica. Except they have better beaches.

And better healthcare.



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:19 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Magon's, I live in Oregon in the States. Its the state north of California, its the state on the West Coast that everyone forgets. National NAMI (I work for county NAMI) wrote up a chart called Grading the States about mental health care in the US and OR got a D. :(

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:23 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


So would you consider yourself to be Irish-American? I was a little confused, because you use Irish language and talk about Ireland, I wondered if you were from there.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:24 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I'm not sure I'd cope with the cold and the bears. Apart from that, might be taking a peek there next year.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:24 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I'm not sure I'd cope with the cold and the bears. Apart from that, might be taking a peek there next year.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 8:15 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Magon's, if you do come up here maybe we can visit for a bit, go out to eat or something. In the city we don't run into bears. :) But in the country and especially up in the mountains there are indeed bears, most of whom aren't interested in running into us, just like we don't want to run into them. When one camps one sees lots of signs about keeping your trash properly and not leaving food out because if bears start eating people's food then they start expecting said food and they get more used to people, leading to more confrontations. But its not something we worry about a lot. My family and I have never run into any bears, except at the zoo. :)

My inner being is Irish. I love all things Irish, the music (I'm a trad singer) the language (I'm bad at languages but if I was better ... ) etc. I don't have any more Irish in me ancestrally then anyone else, maybe a little here or there but not enough to really count as officially Irish. In America we can choose our culture and I've chosen Irishness.
What part of Aus. do you live in?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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