REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Save the Children from the Michelle Malkin!

POSTED BY: ANOTHERSKY
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 13:13
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7164
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Monday, October 5, 2009 4:08 PM

ANOTHERSKY


Seriously. This is scary.
People are supposed to write things like this to their country (at most)--praise and loyalty and devotion (far below voting age) to a man they only know on TV as the great O-man who cometh to make new?



The Hymn to Obama (which is sung to the Battle Hymn of the Republic) is part of something larger that is happening quite insidiously. Check out who started the song.

"Red and yellow, black and white/All are equal in his sight"

--->Beyond plagiarism, isn't that GOD, or at least Mao?

You know, that psychopathic dictator of China who had lots of young girls singing paens to him about how he led their great nation so they wanted to sleep with him(and boy did he take them up on that).

All Hail Obama! *salutes by raising right arm*

(or Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot...whomever you prefer, the list goes on and on and on...are we treating our ELECTED official--political affiliation aside--like he's our new dictator who will make all the bad problems go away if we just close our eyes and let Daddy Obama take care of everything. This example just takes the cake.

Teaching them this song like this is beyond sick. It's downright scary.

And just on a lyrics note, there are two other glaring issues:

"All your great accomplishments":
ACORN? Increasing deficit?
700 billion "lost" somewhere in oversight for your stimulus? Uh, hello? I realize he has time left, but I ain't singing no songs yet. Specially ones that taste like indoctrination. It's the newest flavor in Party Coffee.

"I speak for all Americans (we're really proud of you)":

The day all Americans agree on everything(particularly presidential policy), let alone worship that president, is the day we'll wake up and realize it's been 1984 for the past 500 years.

That just shows what this song really is--propaganda. Scary propaganda, because this is the way children learn their abcs, to use their brains without thinking.



Going for a ride.

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Tuesday, October 6, 2009 5:31 PM

SOCKPUPPET


Very scary. A nationwide program? Did this come from some Obama person? Or is this some random kook like Jesus Camp?

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Wednesday, October 7, 2009 5:09 PM

ANOTHERSKY


Hey sockpuppet. First post, huh? Welcome to the verse, I'll expect to see your ident card soon. If the name's literal, I'm already laughing.

In case you're serious, this was started by Ms. Charisse Carney-Nunez. Also known as the "award-winning" author of children's book "I Am Barak Obama".

Going for a ride.

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Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:34 PM

GINOBIFFARONI







" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:19 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Meh, eff the Kool-aid, the waffles taste better.



Of course, his policies aren't quite as easy to choke down, alas.

-F

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 2:16 AM

JONGSSTRAW


There is NOTHING wrong with school kids singing a song of praise for their President or their country. A little "good citizenship" is an outstanding lesson for children.

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 3:19 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There is NOTHING wrong with school kids singing a song of praise for their President or their country. A little "good citizenship" is an outstanding lesson for children.


Mao, Castro, and that pansy in North Korea agree completely.

Where are the kids singing songs praising their country but being critical of the President? Somehow I suspect they didn't make the Glee Club cut.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 4:30 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There is NOTHING wrong with school kids singing a song of praise for their President or their country. A little "good citizenship" is an outstanding lesson for children.


Mao, Castro, and that pansy in North Korea agree completely.

Where are the kids singing songs praising their country but being critical of the President? Somehow I suspect they didn't make the Glee Club cut.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.


Oh fiddlestix. It's a healthy & normal expression of pride in your nation. You think these kids understand the political ramifications of the words? They're just having fun, which seems to me to be better than bashing each others' heads in with 2 by 4's. It doesn't matter what they sing, the good news is that they're singing.

Even back in the Stone Age days of my yoot, we sang songs of praise & hope for our new President. If memory serves, it went something like this:

"JFK is our President, hooray hooray!
He is making our country stronger each and every day.
We study hard in school and we know,
that if we become President we can bang Marilyn Monroe."


See...no harm done.

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 5:02 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Oh fiddlestix. It's a healthy & normal expression of pride in your nation. You think these kids understand the political ramifications of the words?


The parents understand.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 6:51 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Flashback: Schoolchildren also sang songs honoring President Bush


Huffington Post: Kids sang songs praising Bush after Hurricane Katrina. According to a September 25 Huffington Post article -- despite the Republican National Committee's accusations that the kids singing about Obama at the elementary school in New Jersey amounted to "indoctrination of our nations [sic] ... children," "fanaticism," and "propaganda" -- schoolchildren also sang about President Bush. From the article:

Alas, such "propaganda" has not been limited to despots, dictators and the Obama White House. As a savvy source points out, back in 2006 children from Gulf Coast states serenaded First Lady Laura Bush with a song praising the President, Congress, and Federal Emergency Management Agency for their response to -- of all things -- Hurricane Katrina. The lyrics were as follow:

Our country's stood beside us People have sent us aid. Katrina could not stop us, our hopes will never fade. Congress, Bush and FEMA People across our land Together have come to rebuild us and we join them hand-in-hand!

The event took place at that year's White House Easter Egg Roll and included roughly 100 children from Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. President Bush, it seems, wasn't in attendance during the song itself. But he was there earlier, when the First Lady read the book, Will You Be My Friend: A Bunny and Bird Story by Nancy Tafuri, to the children.

"After the reading," the Wall Street Journal reported at the time, "Mr. Bush asked, 'Did you like this book? Does it tell you about what people can do to help other people, what bird did to help bunny? Be kind to him and give him shelter.'"

The weather that day was described as a "chilly rain" which must have seemed appropriate given the fact that the Gulf Coast children were actually thanking the administration for its feeble response to the hurricane.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909290006

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 7:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Yeah, but where was the outrage then?

Some of ya peeps, ya need to wake up!

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 7:15 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There is NOTHING wrong with school kids singing a song of praise for their President or their country. A little "good citizenship" is an outstanding lesson for children.


Mao, Castro, and that pansy in North Korea agree completely.

Where are the kids singing songs praising their country but being critical of the President? Somehow I suspect they didn't make the Glee Club cut.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.



They never have made the "glee club" cut. In fact, they're probably still in Gitmo, where they were sent during the Bush Jr. years, along with anyone who would DARE to wear a "Kerry for President" t-shirt to a Bush Youth rally. ;)

Funny, but you used to have different feelings about praising your country and being critical of your President, "Hero"...

Quote:

In the beginning all the world was America.

I think people need to understand that American ideals are not the sole property of those of us living in the United States. If the freedom is the natural state of Man, then those truths we hold to be self evident must apply to all Mankind.

This country, this governemt has never claimed perfection. We claim only to be "more perfect". We recognize the importence of truth and justice. We seek to protect them and provide them to our people. Just who are "our people"? The answer is everyone, everywhere. The whole world has come here, every nation, every culture, every religion, has come to share in our vision. Sure we have our faults and bumps, but together we get by, we build, rebuild, and move foreward. That is the American Way.

Do we have the right to inflict our ways on other nations?

Yes.



Those are your own words. So apparently, you believed these things about America only when the Republicans were in charge, but you DON'T believe the same things when Democrats are in power.

I guess you just don't see Democrats as "Americans". Or even as "people". I mean, you say that we can "inflict" our ways (your word, not mine - it sounds like a disease or a punishment the way you say it) on other nations - but you don't feel that it's right to do the same here at home?

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 7:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahh, Rue, thank you yet again...you do my work for me.

C'mon, folks, let's get real. A song sung by schoolchildren??? As the title says, kids sang about Bush, too...to see it as some kind of secret plot is just idiotic.

MANY of the things Obama and/or the Dems have done were done--sometimes even more often--by Bush and/or the Repubs. It's just such a toxic attitude right now that ANYTHING he does is condemned...and anything anyone does to speak well of him is condemned.

Yes, Sig, it's pretty absurd, isn't it?

Can't we TRY to get real? Give the little things their APPROPRIATE due and deal with the really serious stuff...bah!

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:42 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Hell, don't look at me, I refused to stand and recite the pledge of alliegence back in 1978, and caught merry hell about it - even made the local papers.

My mom backed me all the way and eventually the school threw in the towel, soon enough it became a non-incident.

When I started seeing other students do this, and *make an issue of it*, I considered it social progress although most of the refusals I've seen have come from high school, rather than grade school, students.

The funny thing, and I been just waiting to point it out again, just in case anyone else had the brains....

Ahem - did anyone in this ask the kids opinions ?
The ones against it ?
The ones for it ?
You ?

Think on that, think HARD, people.
THAT is what I am trying to overcome before they shovel me in.

If a kid *wants* to do something like this, fine, if they don't, that's fine too - but asking them first would be a step forward, wouldn't it ?

They're not property, pets or livestock, they're PEOPLE and dammit we oughta treat em that way.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:34 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


But, as "Hero" pointed out,

Quote:


The parents understand.



What is it they "understand", exactly? That their kids being proud that a black man became our President is wrong? Is that what you want them to understand?

'Cause I don't ever remember you having a big problem with patriotism or support for the President until "the black guy" got the job.

Just sayin'.

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Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:07 PM

SOCKPUPPET


Quote:

Hey sockpuppet. First post, huh? Welcome to the verse, I'll expect to see your ident card soon. If the name's literal, I'm already laughing.

In case you're serious, this was started by Ms. Charisse Carney-Nunez. Also known as the "award-winning" author of children's book "I Am Barak Obama".

Going for a ride.



Hi AnotherSky,

This is my third post. Thanks for noticing that I exist. Can I not be a sockpuppet and also serious? Perhaps I am a concerned progressive poster with a hidden suspicion about Barry. I could also be a multiple personality. I recently saw someone take an agnostic position on their own existance. I am not a sockpuppet. I don't know where you'd get that idea. Of course first rule about sockpuppets is never admit that you are a sockpuppet. Unless it's never get involve in a land war in Asia. Oops. Too late for that.
I searched. Charisse Carney-Nunes, not hispanic, also authored "I have a really big ego" and something called "Brand Nu Words." Nu is naked. By context then, brand must mean corporate sponsored. This looks like a publisher.
Quote:

I Dream for You a World: A Covenant for Our Children (2007), Nappy (2006), Songs of a Sistermom: Motherhood Poems (2004),and I Am Barack Obama (2009).

They assure us no racial angle. Nappy must be about sleep Barry has decided to become beloved leader before. There was a harmless class activity about worshiping Barack Obama and also sex ed for kindergarten. It does seem that he took no issue with her when she claimed to be him. Very strange. I would have thought this was identity theft. Maybe she is his sockpuppet.
Oh, I am sure I can produce an "Ident card." Do we have those in the states now? No sense being a sockpuppet unless you can create identification. Perhaps I am Barack Hussein Obama.

Well, I take this songs sung by children very seriously. As a child I was given a role to take part in a school play. We were given songs to sing and lines supporting a political agenda. I did not really understand politics, but I could recognize it. I do not think I was "indoctrinated" into that belief system that I did not understand, but I did comprehend that I was being exploited. The teacher had an agenda, and was trying to influence the audience, who were parents. Those parents would then influence their children, my classmates and I. I was just happy to be in a school play, and so put my doubts aside.

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Friday, October 9, 2009 2:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Oh, I am sure I can produce an "Ident card." Do we have those in the states now? No sense being a sockpuppet unless you can create identification. Perhaps I am Barack Hussein Obama.



Well, if the "birthers" get their way, everyone in the country will have to show their ID cards to go anywhere. That's what they're really pushing, ya know: RealID. Can't get it without showing your birth certificate, and gotta show it to prove you're a citizen.

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Friday, October 9, 2009 2:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Unless it's never get involve in a land war in Asia
That's inconceivable!

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Friday, October 9, 2009 5:17 AM

DREAMTROVE


Sig,

You keep on using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means...


Mike,

I think the identification that crowd is after is "have accent, will travel..." South to Mexico. Where the jobs are. And the warm water. White sandy beaches. Girls in bikinis. Um... wait, mexicans are coming to America *why* exactly?


Just out of curiosity, is the Mmm and in Mmmcookies or Mmmfashnik?

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Friday, October 9, 2009 8:28 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

Unless it's never get involve in a land war in Asia
That's inconceivable!



I do not think that word means what you think it means.

ETA: Crap - Drove beat me to it!

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Friday, October 9, 2009 9:11 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I guess you just don't see Democrats as "Americans". Or even as "people". I mean, you say that we can "inflict" our ways...on other nations - but you don't feel that it's right to do the same here at home?


Democrat or Republican, I stand by what I wrote.

The passage you cited was about defending the export of freedom to the world, especially to other cultures.

Your not even comparing apples to oranges. Teaching our kids to sing praises of the President is wrong, making them sing about his policies is wrong. Its the sort of cultish facism that infects North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela.

Those children could have been taught "God Bless America", that would have been fine. They could have sung about how wonderful the country is that it elects its first black President...NOT how wonderful the 'Great Leader' is. Not how he's going to save them, give them health care and jobs and money.

It is at the very heart of the unAmerican. These childen will grow up to be the adults of Detroit who lined up thinking they were getting their "Obama money":



In short I believe that its right to inflict the American values of liberty, law, and Democracy on the world. It is wrong to inflict Democrat/Obama/Republican/Bush values on anyone because our American values demand that we freely choose to support or not to support a particular leader or policy.

This is consistant with the Constitution as well. A State...lets say Ohio...can have any leader it wants, any party it wants, even the same leader or party over and over...but it can't have a dictator or king, the choice is Constitutionally mandated, a codification if you will of American values.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, October 9, 2009 9:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Sig,You keep on using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means...
Oh, its a reference to Wallace Shawn as Vizzini in Princess Bride

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me....

You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha..."


Vizzini's oft-repeated phrase is "Inconceivable!"

And now, I think I've reduced this thread to the level of importance which is so richly deserves!

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Friday, October 9, 2009 1:59 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Those children could have been taught "God Bless America", that would have been fine.



Not if they were MY kids, it wouldn't! Talk about "indoctrination". Keep that "god" horseshit out of public schools.

Quote:

They could have sung about how wonderful the country is that it elects its first black President...NOT how wonderful the 'Great Leader' is. Not how he's going to save them, give them health care and jobs and money.



I just don't remember you being this outraged when kids were singing the praises of Bush after Katrina. In fact, looking through some old threads, I can't find a single instance of you criticizing them for that. Seems a bit odd.

Quote:

Katrina Kids sang to the Bushes:

Our country's stood beside us
People have sent us aid.
Katrina could not stop us,
our hopes will never fade.
Congress, Bush and FEMA
People across our land
Together have come to rebuild us
and we join them hand-in-hand!



Those MONSTERS! How could they!

Damn them to hell. They're probably lined up for their "Bush Money" as we speak!


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/25/flashback-students-sang-b_n_3
00372.html




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Friday, October 9, 2009 2:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

SignyM posted:


And now, I think I've reduced this thread to the level of importance which is so richly deserves!



INCONCEIVABLE!

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Friday, October 9, 2009 2:51 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Oh, and I s'pose those kids ought to get busy writing some new verses about Obama and his shiny new Nobel Peace Prize, eh?

But Bush still has that guy's shoes that were thrown at him, right? Yeah, that's a cool prize, too, I guess.

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Friday, October 9, 2009 3:59 PM

ANOTHERSKY


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
And now, I think I've reduced this thread to the level of importance which is so richly deserves!



The level of a miracle-peddler's jingle?

I posted this because I think it's serious business, not because I thought the previous Republican admin was great or because I think Obama is the Antichrist.

Brainwashing is serious.

Someone up yonder (apologies for non-quoting in the rest of this, I'm pressed for time) said it's ok that they are (it was mandatory, btw) required to sing this song for a living, policy-making president...."because they don't understand it". That is precisely WHY it's scary to me. Because ten or fifteen years from now, they're going to be voting...without understanding exactly why, except that the man or woman they're voting for is "great".

But my biggest issue is definitely addressing/speaking about the President as the Great Leader, and with manifestly untrue statements, such as all America loves him.

And no one said anything about him being black. The Obama campaign's already said plenty about that.




--
Going for a ride.

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Friday, October 9, 2009 4:04 PM

ANOTHERSKY


Sockpuppet: my apologies, it is good to welcome an actual firefly fan to the 'verse.

It was just that I've seen a lot of the cyberverse kind of sockpuppets (ie fake usernames) floating around lately, and they like to troll in a most cowardly fashion. I wasn't sure you were legitimate(thought you might be one with an ironical turn of mind) right after your first post, and perhaps I was too harsh about it. So, sorry again, and the happy part of that original message was meant sincerely.






--
Going for a ride.

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Friday, October 9, 2009 4:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnotherSky:
I posted this because I think it's serious business, not because I thought the previous Republican admin was great or because I think Obama is the Antichrist.

Brainwashing is serious.



Then you will no doubt stand beside me when I demand that we stop having kids recite The Pledge of Allegiance in schools - ESPECIALLY that "under god" garbage that was added in the 50s. Pure brainwashing and bullshit, you'll agree.

Quote:


Someone up yonder (apologies for non-quoting in the rest of this, I'm pressed for time) said it's ok that they are (it was mandatory, btw) required to sing this song for a living, policy-making president...."because they don't understand it". That is precisely WHY it's scary to me. Because ten or fifteen years from now, they're going to be voting...without understanding exactly why, except that the man or woman they're voting for is "great".



And this is exactly why we must STOP trying to teach children that Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, or Reagan were "great" Presidents, or even decent human beings. Right?

Quote:


But my biggest issue is definitely addressing/speaking about the President as the Great Leader, and with manifestly untrue statements, such as all America loves him.



I suppose if they spoke about the President as being the leader of a great nation, you'd have a problem with it as well?

Quote:


And no one said anything about him being black. The Obama campaign's already said plenty about that.



As have his detractors.

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Friday, October 9, 2009 5:41 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Oh, its a reference to Wallace Shawn as Vizzini in Princess Bride

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me....

You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha..."

Vizzini's oft-repeated phrase is "Inconceivable!"

And now, I think I've reduced this thread to the level of importance which is so richly deserves!



Um, Sig, just a lil tip: when someone(s) make the appropriate response, it probably means "read it, saw the movie, got the t-shirt"

But seriously, I can't believe they left out the line "There's no escape," Buttercup realized. "I'm a dead cookie."


Mike, I think you meant


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Friday, October 9, 2009 6:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Still waitin for someone, anyone, to bother askin the childrens opinion - cause, yanno, as sentient beings they likely have one.

Not that folks care, or half the time even NOTICE.


-F

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:43 AM

DARKJESTER


DAMN good point Frem - 'course, most folks don't see kids as actually having a voice in such things, they're not old enough to understand......

Me, I stopped saying the Pledge of Allegiance in '76, in 7th grade, but for religious reasons - and to be honest, more than a little bit just to be different. Wasn't a huge deal, because the area I grew up in had a lot of pacifist Christians, and I wasn't the first or only to stop saying it.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 7:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA


My issue with it, DJ, was the hypocrisy, even if I couldn't spell it at the time (I was eight) I cursed sure knew what it was.

I hated "their god" with a rabid passion since as a child I saw right through all the lies and most of the nastiest behavior I saw was on behalf of the churchies, all the while them pretending this was something other people did and they didn't do those things... it wasn't till many years later I could even grudgingly admit not all of em were evil, although having become a Maltheist I am unlikely to believe their deity ain't.

When I learned many years later that the phrase in question was added for nefarious reasons as a social and political control vector, and just how badly it violated one of our nations core principles, I felt much better about that refusal despite it being done in blind hatred at the time.

That whole "liberty and justice for all" thing set me off as well, cause as a child, I was oh so very well aware that ain't true, ESPECIALLY not for kids, who have no rights, no liberty, and most certainly no justice - when I became an adult I vowed to never, EVER forget this, and I haven't - but even adults, at least those without money, social or political influence, have few rights and little justice themselves.

Wasn't till I was twenty something that it came clear to me that this and other of our national principles are an ideal, and one worth striving for - but to pretend we're ALREADY there, that's just a lie, and to buy into it is an excuse to not keep moving forward - civilization was a first step, not an end point, you know ?

So while mentally, I might not have been able to articulate the rationale behind that refusal, my heart knew why all along.

I was a strange kid anyway, social feral and extreme latchkey child, forced by circumstances into the role of an adult and managing the household while our single mother busted ass to keep the bills paid, so even before I reached double digits in age I was something of a cynic, and having served an adults role for nearly a decade while being treated as less than a housepet by the rest of society played a substantial role in forging my character and personality as an adult.

I *never* treat children as subhuman, and watching society do so always drives me into choke-a-bitch frenzy, prolly always will.

There's been progress, ISAC, CAICIA, many others, even a full on political action committee (PAC) dedicated soley to giving a voice to the otherwise voiceless.
http://www.protect.org/

Never quite understood the level of denial and suppression it's gotta take for children who were so ignored, rejected and mistreated, to become adults who pretend that didn't happen and then perpetuate the cycle right on down to their own kids - that's insane, isn't it ?

-Frem

ETA: Btw, nice to see some of y'all lurkers step in and offer comment, so welcome to the shark infested waters, DJ.

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:18 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


ETA: Btw, nice to see some of y'all lurkers step in and offer comment, so welcome to the shark infested waters, DJ.



Yup, always good to have some fresh blood in the water.

Welcome to you, too, AnotherSky.

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 3:02 PM

DREAMTROVE


I only went to 4 years of school, but never said the pledge. I grew up with the Vietnam War and the Nuclear Arms race. It was hard to pledge to that, even as a lil kid. I actually remember going home and look up "allegiance" thinking "better know what this is before I pledge it." I realized then that I couldn't do it, because I took promises very seriously. Still do.

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Monday, October 12, 2009 5:45 PM

ANOTHERSKY


Singing the praises of a country or an ideal is fundamentally different than praising one man.

Because we can not all be Barak Hussein Obama in our glorious future.

Germany




USSR




And do you recognize this country?




Glad to be welcomed. This is my first foray into sharky waters. I hope this forum sticks around.




--
Going for a ride.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:27 AM

PERFESSERGEE


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
[B

-Frem

ETA: Btw, nice to see some of y'all lurkers step in and offer comment, so welcome to the shark infested waters, DJ.



I'll take you up on that frem, and de-lurk. I told Chrisisall that I'd start posting again anyway. I think the manufactured outrage is just that - manufactured hysteria from people who didn't say diddly when kids sang in praise of Bush after Katrina (I must say that my mind boggled when I heard about that - PRAISE FOR THE KATRINA RESPONSE? How absurd is that!). My response to these hysterical fools is: take three deep breaths and get a life (and a clue too, while you're at it).

I'm with ya on the pledge of allegiance, too. I'll be damned if I'll pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. My allegiance is to my country, of which I am mighty proud. I also happen to be proud of the flag and happily sing the national anthem when it's appropriate, but I won't even stand up for the pledge, let alone say it. I've traveled a lot in the third world and I know how good we have it here in the States, and it chaps my #ss to see so-called patriots, who live in real luxury, acting in the most anti-constitutional and anti-freedom ways (like forcing the pledge on kids and forcing their religious views on everybody). GRRRRR!

/rant

perfessergee

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:48 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by perfessergee:
I'm with ya on the pledge of allegiance, too. I'll be damned if I'll pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth.


E- Plebnista.
Your tongue would surely turn to fire.



The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:55 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by perfessergee:
I think the manufactured outrage is just that - manufactured hysteria from people who didn't say diddly when kids sang in praise of Bush after Katrina....



Abso-fragin-lutely.

The same folks organized a protest outside the school. When asked to move the protest - so as not to scare the children there - and instead bring it to the school board, which actually has the power to change things, and is the correct place to bring such grievances - they declined.

They get better press by harassing children than acting like adults.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:04 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

The same folks organized a protest outside the school. When asked to move the protest - so as not to scare the children there - and instead bring it to the school board, which actually has the power to change things, and is the correct place to bring such grievances - they declined.


Of course.

Tantrums are for public display.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:11 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, I don't do patriotic displays, the anthems or none of that - although I do think all american flagpoles oughta have an extra two feet painted yellow to raise the flag INTO when someone pushes us, as a gesture of our free defiance.

And, well, imma Anarchist so you can't really expect much in the way of nationalism from me...

But you know, the concept, the IDEA - of america, as our founders expressed, the noble goals they set which we've tried and often failed to live up to, I am very strongly with that, and with the idea of moving towards those ideals and trying to live up to them, instead of casting them aside as outdated and quaint relics of a bygone era in favor of something that looks a whole damned lot like Neo-Feudalism to me.

So no, I don't do all those nationalistic displays, but yeah, I believe in america, the ideal, and I will stand forth for it, sure.



Bill Murray says it best though

-F

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:19 AM

PERFESSERGEE


Well said Frem. The ideals are what's important, not symbols. And the gods only know we've failed to live up to them many a time; all we can do is hold our collective feet to the fire and keep trying.

And I like the idea of having a place to further hoist the flag in defiance.

perfessergee

ETA - Great clip! I never did see that one in a movie house

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:20 AM

DREAMTROVE


Nah, I gotta buck the crowd here: Another Sky has a point. This is very scary, and it's coming from Obama, who is fostering a messianic cult of personality, which, for a head of state, is a very very dangerous thing.

Remember the Obama pre-presidential seal? How about the Obama Parthenon, where he put himself in place of Zeus was it?

Okay, I take the point that Bush did a little of this but two things about that

1) A little, yes, photo ops and garbage, but this is on a much larger scale. (Please Remember what happened to those Russian and German children...)

2) I don't quite follow the liberal logic here: Are you saying Bush *wasn't* scary? Bush was scary as hell. If you're going to say, after 8 years of calling Bush the devil, then turn and say "If Bush did it, it's okay?"

Seriously. This gets my WTF?!?!, Mate. So, the devil is suddenly okay, or is it what's good enough for the devil is good enough for me?

Sure, hardcore republican loyalists didn't complain about republican photo ops. Big surprise? I don't hear any worries at all from even the casual left here. I know there are some people here who find this whole thing just a little bit unnerving.

A little note from Ron Paul on the stupid peace prize thing: Obama was nominated for the prize after 12 days in office. By this point, Obama had already invaded a US ally to attack a civilian population.

This is scary guys. I don't care if you like obama or his policies or don't. This kinda blind obedience to executive power is very dangerous, and the use of children is manipulative, destructive and very scary.

We're talking about a very serious topic here. The proposed agenda "change it, rearrange it, we're going to change the world, bring them freedom, etc..." Stuff, this agenda, it's not just about socialism, this agenda is about WWIII. It's about the US knowing what's best for the world, and bringing that to not just to Iran and Afghanistan, but Pakistan, India, Iran, Latin America, Europe, Africa. And there's gonna be more than a couple folks who disagree with that.

In Afghanistan alone we are out gunned 50:1. We have 60,000 coalition soldiers, right now they have 3 million. The pentagon has put out the word that we cannot win an even war, we must have military superiority. Well, news flash, even with our allies, our real allies, the ones that voted for Chicago, we don't have 3 million soldiers. There's only one way to get them: Conscription.

So, yeah you think we don't know that this was going on before Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Sr., sure it was, but we haven't crossed that line... yet. When I hear talk about "serve for citizenship" or "equal burden" policies that say we must have one contractor for each US soldier... at least, that's a minimum requirement, we could be talking about a worldwide draft.

In a time like this, given the geopolitical situation do you want a culture of blind obedience and messianic worship? Screw partisanship for a second, and give this one some straight thought. People gave Bush hell, and I don't mean media people, I mean, we the people, the masses balked at his every move, and only wished we had a 20 foot statue of him to knock over. Well, we might be headed towards a 20' statue of Obama, and I don't see anyone ready to lay a finger on it...
[/rant]

Concerned is all.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 1:14 PM

ANOTHERSKY


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
This is very scary, and it's coming from Obama, who is fostering a messianic cult of personality, which, for a head of state, is a very very dangerous thing.



Quote:


In a time like this, given the geopolitical situation do you want a culture of blind obedience and messianic worship? Screw partisanship for a second, and give this one some straight thought. People gave Bush hell, and I don't mean media people, I mean, we the people, the masses balked at his every move, and only wished we had a 20 foot statue of him to knock over. Well, we might be headed towards a 20' statue of Obama, and I don't see anyone ready to lay a finger on it...
[/rant]

Concerned is all.



This is what I'm getting at. I might add ESPECIALLY given the geopolitical situation.
Then there's the 'repeating the past' angle:

I thought I might just be a little over concerned at the national hysteria until I read a short interview(which alas I now cannot find ) with a man who was in the Hitler Youth back in the 40s. He said current conditions reminded him of it so much it was eerie.

People don't understand how horrific dictators come to power and then stay there. It's a lot easier when 'we the people's' attitude is adoring and all-trusting instead of evaluating and informed. You don't have to love or hate the president, you just have to know what the heck he's doing.

--
Going for a ride.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnotherSky:

In case you're serious, this was started by Ms. Charisse Carney-Nunez. Also known as the "award-winning" author of children's book "I Am Barak Obama".

Going for a ride.



I don't know if you're really going for a ride, but I think you've been taken for a ride.

Do you have a source for your claim that she's the one that "started" this, or are you merely repeating this because it's what Michelle Malkin said?

By the way, you misspelled Ms. Carney-Nunes's name. Seems if you're going to spend that much time hating her, you'd get the name right...

Here's some of what the Washington Post had to say about it:

Quote:



Carney-Nunes, swept up in a viral tornado of vitriol, had nothing to do with the children's song. She was doing an author's reading in the school that day.

Carney-Nunes, who writes children's books and was a year behind Obama at Harvard Law School, watched as strangers posted her personal information on the Internet. She read, "You're a dirtbag commie propagandist trying to infect children with your failed Marxist ideology." And "your Obama chant is right out of Africa." And "get ready for a massive attack!!!" And "my friend GLENN BECK will also shove this in your face until justice is served." She made copies (which she shared with The Washington Post) and then deleted the messages, hoping the tornado would set her back down.

After a few days, with the outcry expanding to calls for the school principal and district superintendent to be fired, Carney-Nunes issued a statement through a publicist saying that she "did not write, create, teach or lead the song about President Obama in the video," and that "the song was presented to her by a teacher and students as a demonstration of a project that the children had previously put together." The district superintendent gave the same account in a letter sent home to parents.

Carney-Nunes said an associate of hers videotaped the children's performance and later uploaded it, along with video and photos from other of her readings, to Carney-Nunes's YouTube account.

An e-mail to Malkin Saturday seeking comment was not answered.

Carney-Nunes spends a lot of her free time teaching children how to bridge divides, but she has no idea how to build a dialogue with those who attacked her.

"How can I talk to those people?" she said. "These are people who persist in believing that Barack Obama is a Muslim, that he isn't a citizen of this country. You tell me: Where is the beginning of that conversation?"






Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:02 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Lessee... indoctrinate these kids so that by the next election - when they will be 12 - they won't be able to vote for him in droves... that's brilliant.



Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:51 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Nah, I gotta buck the crowd here: Another Sky has a point. This is very scary, and it's coming from Obama,



Coming from Obama huh? He ordered this? Or maybe he was leading the choir?



Quote:

who is fostering a messianic cult of personality, which, for a head of state, is a very very dangerous thing.



That messiah bullshit was pathetic last fall. The only people sticking to that sad little meme are fools.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:52 AM

SOCKPUPPET



Hmm... Also tasty, but not as tasty as Miss Ukraine

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Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Let's see, there was the Jesus camp that had their kids bless and all but worship Bush:



The Laura Bush thing praising George and FEMA(!) after Katrina--talk about indoctrination! http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/17/katrina-song/ This song sung to Laura Bush, who couldn't even remember the name of Hurricane Katrina!



And on the other side, if anyone missed it, the marvelous:



This whole thing is another tempest in a teapot drummed up by the idjits on the right; goes right along with all the other dribble they've used--effectively--to get media attention for their usual scorched-earth tactics against Obama.

The parents were given text of the song beforehand; nobody objected. I think it's their business, the children's and the school's, and nobody else's. I think the Pledge of Allegiance has always been a far more dangerous and insidious form of brainwashing.

Only people equal to those idjits take it seriously, in my opinion. The only reason the same sort of thing didn't happen for Bush in public schools was because he never offered any HOPE, only FEAR, and because the religious fanatics were doing enough of a job worshipping him.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:47 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I think the Pledge of Allegiance has always been a far more dangerous and insidious form of brainwashing.


The Pledge Of Allegiance was designed to weed out the sheep. Those who say it loud, clear & correctly are the mindless enemy of human freedom. Those who say "Richard Stands" during it's recital are the underground movement for free thought.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:51 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I think the Pledge of Allegiance has always been a far more dangerous and insidious form of brainwashing.


The Pledge Of Allegiance was designed to weed out the sheep. Those who say it loud, clear & correctly are the mindless enemy of human freedom. Those who say "Richard Stands" during it's recital are the underground movement for free thought.


The laughing Chrisisall



Kinda like when my grandmother used to drag me to church, and then she'd get pissed 'cause it wouldn't take. Instead of saying "amen" at the appointed times, I kept saying, "Hey, man".


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