Privilege in the United States by RiveR6213

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"all of the competing people who are fighting for scraps"

And that's another thing a lot of people don't get. This is where virtually all of us are. But some people think that being snobby (because of being white, males ... whatever) means they're not in the same class. Talk about foolishly grinning over their meaningless tokens ...

I agree but when they do grin they totally believe that it has meaning. I was like that once but it wasn't because I'm white, it's because I was an ass...okay, maybe I'm still an ass but not in that way.

Just got home from work. I love being busy, it takes my mind off of worrying about things that have nothing to do with me.

-River

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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:27 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There is within human nature (being soical animals) the identification of "us". Unfortunately, once "us" is identified, it's opposite also comes into existance: "them".

The challenge is to make "us" as broad a category as possible. It is possible to consider all human as "us", regardless of race, age, gender, or ability. "Them" simply becomes non-human.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:28 AM

BLOKETU

I'm Indigenous bi-racial, my partner Caucasion, and after 10 years together I can honestly say yes there is. When you use your check or debit card at the store for the first time they usually ask for your ID. My partner got asked once, but several times at the same store they continued asking for mine. Then at the same store, Safeway there was a black woman in front of me in line, then behind mestood a white couple, so when a new register opened up the clerk always asks for the next in line, but she went to the white couple. I went to the manager and said you just lost a $400 a month customer.

Shopping at JC Penny's I should have been the next one to get the attention of the clerk, I know she saw me there, but then a white couple walked upand shewent to them, but they told her I was next. I told her manager and told them they just lost a $500 transaction.

Things get better, but we have a long ways to go.

BTW I am new to the board, but not to Firefly/Serenity. I love the show/movie; oh why could it not survive many more seasons!!!

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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:07 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I appreciate your perspective. Though I'm white and have had the benefit of white privilege I remember want ads that said HELP-WANTED FEMALE bookkeeper, HELP-WANTED MALE accountant. I remember being the only female standing 4 hours in line for apprenticeships for pipe-fitters and electricians (they wouldn't even hand me the application form once I got to the desk). And I was told that the university I went to didn't allow female med students because they didn't have facilities for women. And there is still a severe glass ceiling for non-white non-males in the highest ranks of business and government.

SOME things have improved, but as long as we have a society that limits opportunities privilege will exist.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Did you ever watch TV Nation? It was a little like Candid Camera, but with an edge. One of the skits was whether a black man could catch a cab in NY. So an Emmy-nominated black actor and a convicted white felon stand near each other on a sidewalk and see who can catch a cab faster in New York City. The black actor is well-dressed while the white felon looks scruffy at best. White felon beats the black actor every time, despite the fact that the show's producers add a spotlight and eventually a blinking sign to the black actor's spot of sidewalk. It's hysterically funny and deeply offensive at the same time.

BTW- I have a funny standing-in-line story. My SO and I were in the middle of a minor home renovation when we had to run out to Sears. So there we are in line, sweaty, dust-covered, and wearing holey clothes and this well-dressed lady in line in back of us is talking to her hubby in Hungarian. "Look at them, so dirty, can't they shower...? " etc. The reason why I know is bc my SO speaks Hungarian. As we passed her on our way out my SO said "Thank you" to her in Hungarian. heh heh heh

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 10:20 PM

PIRATEJENNY

I'm surprised nobody has posted this yet..here is an article on White Privlage

by Peggy McIntosh

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

Daily effects of white privilege
Elusive and fugitive
Earned strength, unearned power
"I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group"

Peggy McIntosh

Through work to bring materials from women's studies into the rest of the curriculum, I have often noticed men's unwillingness to grant that they are overprivileged, even though they may grant that women are disadvantaged. They may say they will work to women's statues, in the society, the university, or the curriculum, but they can't or won't support the idea of lessening men's. Denials that amount to taboos surround the subject of advantages that men gain from women's disadvantages. These denials protect male privilege from being fully acknowledged, lessened, or ended.

Thinking through unacknowledged male privilege as a phenomenon, I realized that, since hierarchies in our society are interlocking, there are most likely a phenomenon, I realized that, since hierarchies in our society are interlocking, there was most likely a phenomenon of while privilege that was similarly denied and protected. As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something that puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage.

I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege. So I have begun in an untutored way to ask what it is like to have white privilege. I have come to see white privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets that I can count on cashing in each day, but about which I was "meant" to remain oblivious. White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools , and blank checks.

Describing white privilege makes one newly accountable. As we in women's studies work to reveal male privilege and ask men to give up some of their power, so one who writes about having white privilege must ask, "having described it, what will I do to lessen or end it?"

After I realized the extent to which men work from a base of unacknowledged privilege, I understood that much of their oppressiveness was unconscious. Then I remembered the frequent charges from women of color that white women whom they encounter are oppressive. I began to understand why we are just seen as oppressive, even when we don't see ourselves that way. I began to count the ways in which I enjoy unearned skin privilege and have been conditioned into oblivion about its existence.

My schooling gave me no training in seeing myself as an oppressor, as an unfairly advantaged person, or as a participant in a damaged culture. I was taught to see myself as an individual whose moral state depended on her individual moral will. My schooling followed the pattern my colleague Elizabeth Minnich has pointed out: whites are taught to think of their lives as morally neutral, normative, and average, and also ideal, so that when we work to benefit others, this is seen as work that will allow "them" to be more like "us."

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Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

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Elusive and fugitive

I repeatedly forgot each of the realizations on this list until I wrote it down. For me white privilege has turned out to be an elusive and fugitive subject. The pressure to avoid it is great, for in facing it I must give up the myth of meritocracy. If these things are true, this is not such a free country; one's life is not what one makes it; many doors open for certain people through no virtues of their own.

In unpacking this invisible knapsack of white privilege, I have listed conditions of daily experience that I once took for granted. Nor did I think of any of these perquisites as bad for the holder. I now think that we need a more finely differentiated taxonomy of privilege, for some of these varieties are only what one would want for everyone in a just society, and others give license to be ignorant, oblivious, arrogant, and destructive.

I see a pattern running through the matrix of white privilege, a patter of assumptions that were passed on to me as a white person. There was one main piece of cultural turf; it was my own turn, and I was among those who could control the turf. My skin color was an asset for any move I was educated to want to make. I could think of myself as belonging in major ways and of making social systems work for me. I could freely disparage, fear, neglect, or be oblivious to anything outside of the dominant cultural forms. Being of the main culture, I could also criticize it fairly freely.

In proportion as my racial group was being made confident, comfortable, and oblivious, other groups were likely being made unconfident, uncomfortable, and alienated. Whiteness protected me from many kinds of hostility, distress, and violence, which I was being subtly trained to visit, in turn, upon people of color.

For this reason, the word "privilege" now seems to me misleading. We usually think of privilege as being a favored state, whether earned or conferred by birth or luck. Yet some of the conditions I have described here work systematically to over empower certain groups. Such privilege simply confers dominance because of one's race or sex.

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Earned strength, unearned power

I want, then, to distinguish between earned strength and unearned power conferred privilege can look like strength when it is in fact permission to escape or to dominate. But not all of the privileges on my list are inevitably damaging. Some, like the expectation that neighbors will be decent to you, or that your race will not count against you in court, should be the norm in a just society. Others, like the privilege to ignore less powerful people, distort the humanity of the holders as well as the ignored groups.

We might at least start by distinguishing between positive advantages, which we can work to spread, and negative types of advantage, which unless rejected will always reinforce our present hierarchies. For example, the feeling that one belongs within the human circle, as Native Americans say, should not be seen as privilege for a few. Ideally it is an unearned entitlement. At present, since only a few have it, it is an unearned advantage for them. This paper results from a process of coming to see that some of the power that I originally say as attendant on being a human being in the United States consisted in unearned advantage and conferred dominance.

I have met very few men who truly distressed about systemic, unearned male advantage and conferred dominance. And so one question for me and others like me is whether we will be like them, or whether we will get truly distressed, even outraged, about unearned race advantage and conferred dominance, and, if so, what we will do to lessen them. In any case, we need to do more work in identifying how they actually affect our daily lives. Many, perhaps most, of our white students in the United States think that racism doesn't affect them because they are not people of color; they do not see "whiteness" as a racial identity. In addition, since race and sex are not the only advantaging systems at work, we need similarly to examine the daily experience of having age advantage, or ethnic advantage, or physical ability, or advantage related to nationality, religion, or sexual orientation.

Difficulties and angers surrounding the task of finding parallels are many. Since racism, sexism, and heterosexism are not the same, the advantages associated with them should not be seen as the same. In addition, it is hard to disentangle aspects of unearned advantage that rest more on social class, economic class, race, religion, sex, and ethnic identity that on other factors. Still, all of the oppressions are interlocking, as the members of the Combahee River Collective pointed out in their "Black Feminist Statement" of 1977.

One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms, which we can see, and embedded forms, which as a member of the dominant groups one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

Disapproving of the system won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate but cannot end, these problems.

To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.

It seems to me that obliviousness about white advantage, like obliviousness about male advantage, is kept strongly inculturated in the United States so as to maintain the myth of meritocracy, the myth that democratic choice is equally available to all. Keeping most people unaware that freedom of confident action is there for just a small number of people props up those in power and serves to keep power in the hands of the same groups that have most of it already.

Although systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and, I imagine, for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowledge? As we know from watching men, it is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily awarded power to try to reconstruct power systems on a broader base.

Elusive and fugitive

I repeatedly forgot each of the realizations on this list until I wrote it down. For me white privilege has turned out to be an elusive and fugitive subject. The pressure to avoid it is great, for in facing it I must give up the myth of meritocracy. If these things are true, this is not such a free country; one's life is not what one makes it; many doors open for certain people through no virtues of their own.

In unpacking this invisible knapsack of white privilege, I have listed conditions of daily experience that I once took for granted. Nor did I think of any of these perquisites as bad for the holder. I now think that we need a more finely differentiated taxonomy of privilege, for some of these varieties are only what one would want for everyone in a just society, and others give license to be ignorant, oblivious, arrogant, and destructive.

I see a pattern running through the matrix of white privilege, a patter of assumptions that were passed on to me as a white person. There was one main piece of cultural turf; it was my own turn, and I was among those who could control the turf. My skin color was an asset for any move I was educated to want to make. I could think of myself as belonging in major ways and of making social systems work for me. I could freely disparage, fear, neglect, or be oblivious to anything outside of the dominant cultural forms. Being of the main culture, I could also criticize it fairly freely.

In proportion as my racial group was being made confident, comfortable, and oblivious, other groups were likely being made unconfident, uncomfortable, and alienated. Whiteness protected me from many kinds of hostility, distress, and violence, which I was being subtly trained to visit, in turn, upon people of color.

For this reason, the word "privilege" now seems to me misleading. We usually think of privilege as being a favored state, whether earned or conferred by birth or luck. Yet some of the conditions I have described here work systematically to over empower certain groups. Such privilege simply confers dominance because of one's race or sex.

Return to the top of the page

Earned strength, unearned power

I want, then, to distinguish between earned strength and unearned power conferred privilege can look like strength when it is in fact permission to escape or to dominate. But not all of the privileges on my list are inevitably damaging. Some, like the expectation that neighbors will be decent to you, or that your race will not count against you in court, should be the norm in a just society. Others, like the privilege to ignore less powerful people, distort the humanity of the holders as well as the ignored groups.

We might at least start by distinguishing between positive advantages, which we can work to spread, and negative types of advantage, which unless rejected will always reinforce our present hierarchies. For example, the feeling that one belongs within the human circle, as Native Americans say, should not be seen as privilege for a few. Ideally it is an unearned entitlement. At present, since only a few have it, it is an unearned advantage for them. This paper results from a process of coming to see that some of the power that I originally say as attendant on being a human being in the United States consisted in unearned advantage and conferred dominance.

I have met very few men who truly distressed about systemic, unearned male advantage and conferred dominance. And so one question for me and others like me is whether we will be like them, or whether we will get truly distressed, even outraged, about unearned race advantage and conferred dominance, and, if so, what we will do to lessen them. In any case, we need to do more work in identifying how they actually affect our daily lives. Many, perhaps most, of our white students in the United States think that racism doesn't affect them because they are not people of color; they do not see "whiteness" as a racial identity. In addition, since race and sex are not the only advantaging systems at work, we need similarly to examine the daily experience of having age advantage, or ethnic advantage, or physical ability, or advantage related to nationality, religion, or sexual orientation.

Difficulties and angers surrounding the task of finding parallels are many. Since racism, sexism, and heterosexism are not the same, the advantages associated with them should not be seen as the same. In addition, it is hard to disentangle aspects of unearned advantage that rest more on social class, economic class, race, religion, sex, and ethnic identity that on other factors. Still, all of the oppressions are interlocking, as the members of the Combahee River Collective pointed out in their "Black Feminist Statement" of 1977.

One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms, which we can see, and embedded forms, which as a member of the dominant groups one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

Disapproving of the system won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate but cannot end, these problems.

To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.

It seems to me that obliviousness about white advantage, like obliviousness about male advantage, is kept strongly inculturated in the United States so as to maintain the myth of meritocracy, the myth that democratic choice is equally available to all. Keeping most people unaware that freedom of confident action is there for just a small number of people props up those in power and serves to keep power in the hands of the same groups that have most of it already.

Although systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and, I imagine, for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowledge? As we know from watching men, it is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily awarded power to try to reconstruct power systems on a broader base.

I want, then, to distinguish between earned strength and unearned power conferred privilege can look like strength when it is in fact permission to escape or to dominate. But not all of the privileges on my list are inevitably damaging. Some, like the expectation that neighbors will be decent to you, or that your race will not count against you in court, should be the norm in a just society. Others, like the privilege to ignore less powerful people, distort the humanity of the holders as well as the ignored groups.

We might at least start by distinguishing between positive advantages, which we can work to spread, and negative types of advantage, which unless rejected will always reinforce our present hierarchies. For example, the feeling that one belongs within the human circle, as Native Americans say, should not be seen as privilege for a few. Ideally it is an unearned entitlement. At present, since only a few have it, it is an unearned advantage for them. This paper results from a process of coming to see that some of the power that I originally say as attendant on being a human being in the United States consisted in unearned advantage and conferred dominance.

I have met very few men who truly distressed about systemic, unearned male advantage and conferred dominance. And so one question for me and others like me is whether we will be like them, or whether we will get truly distressed, even outraged, about unearned race advantage and conferred dominance, and, if so, what we will do to lessen them. In any case, we need to do more work in identifying how they actually affect our daily lives. Many, perhaps most, of our white students in the United States think that racism doesn't affect them because they are not people of color; they do not see "whiteness" as a racial identity. In addition, since race and sex are not the only advantaging systems at work, we need similarly to examine the daily experience of having age advantage, or ethnic advantage, or physical ability, or advantage related to nationality, religion, or sexual orientation.

Difficulties and angers surrounding the task of finding parallels are many. Since racism, sexism, and heterosexism are not the same, the advantages associated with them should not be seen as the same. In addition, it is hard to disentangle aspects of unearned advantage that rest more on social class, economic class, race, religion, sex, and ethnic identity that on other factors. Still, all of the oppressions are interlocking, as the members of the Combahee River Collective pointed out in their "Black Feminist Statement" of 1977.

One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms, which we can see, and embedded forms, which as a member of the dominant groups one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

Disapproving of the system won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate but cannot end, these problems.

To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.

It seems to me that obliviousness about white advantage, like obliviousness about male advantage, is kept strongly inculturated in the United States so as to maintain the myth of meritocracy, the myth that democratic choice is equally available to all. Keeping most people unaware that freedom of confident action is there for just a small number of people props up those in power and serves to keep power in the hands of the same groups that have most of it already.

Although systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and, I imagine, for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowledge? As we know from watching men, it is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily awarded power to try to reconstruct power systems on a broader base.

Peggy McIntosh is associate director of the Wellesley Collage Center for Research on Women. This essay is excerpted from Working Paper 189. "White Privilege and Male Privilege: A Personal Account of Coming To See Correspondences through Work in Women's Studies" (1988), by Peggy McIntosh; available for $4.00 from the Wellesley College Center for Research on Women, Wellesley MA 02181 The working paper contains a longer list of privileges.

This excerpted essay is reprinted from the Winter 1990 issue of Independent School.

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 1:07 AM

So this is white privilege, huh? What a crock of bullshit. In some countries people are enslaved or killed because of the color of their skin or their religion, etc, but Peggy McIntosh is bitching because she thinks white people have an advantage with buying post-cards, whatever the hell that means. If there is one thing that demonstrates that racism is no longer an issue in this country, it’s this article.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 4:19 AM

"getting loans and apartments etc. than whites. They tend to be turned down more often or are charged higher rates."

Yep, that section 8 housing is pretty darn expensive. As are the food stamps and free medical. Credit is based on a rating...If you mess it up, you pay the price. Nowhere on any of my cards did it ask the color of my skin. And the mortgage brokers that I know don't give a damn about the color of a persons skin, just that they sign on the dotted line................30yrs @ 5.6% = a happy broker.........

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 4:28 AM

Wow. I think Hell must be freezing over, 'cause I keep finding myself agreeing with Finn...

PJ, I live in Mexico, where ther is very REAL racism. Not the extreme kind like Finn was talking about, but much more noticeable and tangible than in the States.

Here, The descendants of the Spanish, and the descendants of the natives conquered and enslaved by the Spanish despise each-other. Those of pure Mayan descent are very obviously treated as second-class citizens. Those of african descent are treated even worse.

Americans are, depending on the area, despised to different degrees. In some of the poorer areas of Mexico City (where I live), Americans (especially white Americans) can't walk around outside, for fear of being kidnapped and held for ransom, and possibly murdered even if their captors are paid.

Traffic cops will quite obviously pull people over based on race. Mexicans are rarely pulled over, but obvious foreign nationals are ALWAYS pulled over. I have Korean friends here who take extra money with them to bribe the cops that inevitably stop them, and if you have a U.S. liscense plate, and you're white, unless you have diplomatic immunity because you work at the embassy, they will threaten to throw you in prison for no reason, unless you pay whatever they ask.

Now THAT is real racism.

[img]

[/img]

"I refuse to submit,
To the god you say is kind.
I know what's right, and it is time,
It's time to fight, and free our minds!

Our spirits were forged in snow and ice,
To bend like steel forged over fire.
We were not made to bend like reed,
Or to turn the other cheek!"

- from the song "Thousand Years of Opression" by Amon Amarth

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 6:01 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I respectfully disagree.

US cops do stop people for driving while black. It is more difficult to get loans, apartments and jobs if you are anything but white. This is the basic stuff that makes life possible, and it's easier for whites.

What I would like to see is a system of blinded evaluation that leaves out personal identifiers. Loans? Use anonymized credit scores. Job? Use anonymized exams. And once the system really does become a meritocracy, you'll see people interested in competing.

But the other thing to realize is that in the US, in order to compete, people are expected to be better than their environment. In other words - outperform their schools, their personal examples, their family situation and so on. Even among whites you'll find children rarely deviate from family status. So it's exceptional when a person is the first one in the family to go to college, or graduate school, or professional school.

But this is what we routinely expect of people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

"I don't compete in rigged games."

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 6:33 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"I don't compete in rigged games."

Question about meaning here. How do you not compete in rigged games? Do you have a job? A home? Have you ever received a loan? How do you ensure you personally do not benefit from built-in privilege?

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 7:08 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Privilege works for (white) and against (female) me.

I don't fit a stereotype.

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 8:04 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Try this one on for size... bear in mind I was asked more than once to assist in the enforcement of such a policy.

Submit two near identical applications to a job in a suburb bordering a major city.

On one, put a phone number from a local upscale suburban neighborhood, on the other, put a phone number from the depths of the big cities ghetto.

See which application dissappears without a trace.

There are many many subtle ways the game is rigged, but never ever doubt that it is - it was only when I acknowledge this, and started actively working around it, that I managed to get my hooks into a career whereafter my reputation kept me employed till I was physically unable to do the job anymore, and still brings me business.

And that one, with the phone numbers ? wasn't race primarily although that was part of it, it was economic, and yet via it's use deprived those who needed the jobs most of the opportunity to have them.

Rue is utterly correct, the upward climb IS rigged, it's just that those it's rigged to help along never see it that way.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 8:12 AM

It's interesting to see a few of you are defusing and attempting to downplay the very meat of this topic of White Privilege. It's one of those topics people don't like to talk about because regardless how much you downplay it, it's true, and we who are white do have an unfair advantage; the game is rigged. Deep down inside we would all like to think that we got where we are today under our own power, but the truth of the matter is we had help...like it or not it IS a truth and throwing insults, or put downs, or your like or dislike of a person here doesn't change the truth of this in any way. White Priviege is real, and it is working in our lives right now as I right this.

Go to China and you'll get to see Chinese Privilege at work. The same goes for any other country.

-River

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 9:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Kaneman is just in denial. Finn? Well, he has such an intricate, nuanced definition of "human life" that it's hard to tell who he thinks is "human". It may not even include people of another race.

It's awfully easy to tell if there's racism. All you have to do is be honest with yourself about your reactions.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Rue is utterly correct, the upward climb IS rigged, it's just that those it's rigged to help along never see it that way.

I don’t doubt it’s rigged. What I doubt is that it’s all my fault because I’m white. I made that upward climb, from a hell of lot lower down then most people. And now it seems that some of you want to tell me that that doesn’t mean anything or as much, because I’m white.

And let’s think about “privilege” for a moment. For almost my entire driving life, I’ve paid more in auto insurance then my sister. I have a much better driving record and a much better credit history then she does, yet I’m the one who pays more for insurance. Why? Female privilege? If we look at it the way some in this thread are looking at race, then yes, it is female privilege. But the real answer is that, statistically speaking, single males under the age of 35 are more likely to get into a wreck then a female in the same category. It may not be fair on every individual bases (such as mine), but insurance companies don’t set their prices based only on individuals. They must take a risk based on what might happen in the future and to assess that risk they use an actuary assessment. Mortgage brokers and banks must also take risk based on their assessment of the chances of default, and the sad fact is that the African American community, statistically speaking, is in crisis. Over 50% of African American children are born to single mothers, which is one of, if not the leading cause of poverty. Half of the nations’ prisoners are African-American. Gang-bangers (most of whom actively condone violence, hate and a general lack of responsibility) are almost entirely black or Latino. It doesn’t surprise me, nor does it require any racism on the part of white people, for African-Americans to be less likely to qualify for loans or to pay more for the loans they receive. It’s not fair in every case, but it’s not necessarily the fault of white people either, and it is wrong to accuse white people of being “privileged” because there are fewer white screw-ups, statistically speaking, then black screw-ups. This is not a popular or politically correct view, but it is one that many leaders in the African-American community have tried to voice, most noticeably Bill Cosby.

As I stated earlier, in this thread or in another one (I don’t remember which) it comes down to a work ethic. The work ethic among White people is, statistically speaking, stronger then it is among Black people, and that needs to be fixed before the disparity will ever change. The desire to point of “Whitey” and blame it all on him is not going to improve matters. It will only make it worse.

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Rue is utterly correct, the upward climb IS rigged, it's just that those it's rigged to help along never see it that way.
I don’t doubt it’s rigged. What I doubt is that it’s all my fault because I’m white. I made that upward climb, from a hell of lot lower down then most people. And now it seems that some of you want to tell me that that doesn’t mean anything or as much, because I’m white.

And let’s think about “privilege” for a moment. For almost my entire driving life, I’ve paid more in auto insurance then my sister. I have a much better driving record and a much better credit history then she does, yet I’m the one who pays more for insurance. Why? Female privilege? If we look at it the way some in this thread are looking at race, then yes, it is female privilege. But the real answer is that, statistically speaking, single males under the age of 35 are more likely to get into a wreck then a female in the same category. It may not be fair on every individual bases (such as mine), but insurance companies don’t set their prices based only on individuals. They must take a risk based on what might happen in the future and to assess that risk they use an actuary assessment. Mortgage brokers and banks must also take risk based on their assessment of the chances of default, and the sad fact is that the African American community, statistically speaking, is in crisis. Over 50% of African American children are born to single mothers, which is one of, if not the leading cause of poverty. Half of the nations’ prisoners are African-American. Gang-bangers (most of whom actively condone violence, hate and a general lack of responsibility) are almost entirely black or Latino. It doesn’t surprise me, nor does it require any racism on the part of white people, for African-Americans to be less likely to qualify for loans or to pay more for the loans they receive. It’s not fair in every case, but it’s not necessarily the fault of white people either, and it is wrong to accuse white people of being “privileged” because there are fewer white screw-ups, statistically speaking, then black screw-ups. This is not a popular or politically correct view, but it is one that many leaders in the African-American community have tried to voice, most noticeably Bill Cosby.

As I stated earlier, in this thread or in another one (I don’t remember which) it comes down to a work ethic. The work ethic among White people is, statistically speaking, stronger then it is among Black people, and that needs to be fixed before the disparity will ever change. The desire to point of “Whitey” and blame it all on him is not going to improve matters. It will only make it worse.

Actually "Whitey" is the blame for a lot of current conditions of other races in the United States and I don't care how you try to play it. In many ways defensive Whites are attempting, or have been attempting to make the other races the blame for the game board that we whites put together, so we can feel okay with our whiteness, and privilege by placing the blame on the victims of our greed and high-handedness of the past and present. I don't buy it. Whitey should be blamed because it's our game by our rules.

-River

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 10:54 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
It's interesting to see a few of you are defusing and attempting to downplay the very meat of this topic of White Privilege. It's one of those topics people don't like to talk about because regardless how much you downplay it, it's true, and we who are white do have an unfair advantage; the game is rigged. Deep down inside we would all like to think that we got where we are today under our own power, but the truth of the matter is we had help...like it or not it IS a truth and throwing insults, or put downs, or your like or dislike of a person here doesn't change the truth of this in any way. White Priviege is real, and it is working in our lives right now as I right this.
Go to China and you'll get to see Chinese Privilege at work. The same goes for any other country.

I would disagree that anyone is trying to downplay white privilege, it exists. Much like privilege exists in other countries where caucasian is not the dominant race. I am trying to ascertain how I am not to benefit from this built-in privilege. A reasonable question which arose during the course of this thread.

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Actually "Whitey" is the blame for a lot of current conditions of other races in the United States and I don't care how you try to play it. In many ways defensive Whites are attempting, or have been attempting to make the other races the blame for the game board that we whites put together, so we can feel okay with our whiteness, and privilege by placing the blame on the victims of our greed and high-handedness of the past and present. I don't buy it. Whitey should be blamed because it's our game by our rules.

Damn uppity Whites. Someone should put them in their place.

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 12:10 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Typical whitey. So git in the corner Finn, siddown and shaddup.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 6:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Actually "Whitey" is the blame for a lot of current conditions of other races in the United States and I don't care how you try to play it. In many ways defensive Whites are attempting, or have been attempting to make the other races the blame for the game board that we whites put together, so we can feel okay with our whiteness, and privilege by placing the blame on the victims of our greed and high-handedness of the past and present. I don't buy it. Whitey should be blamed because it's our game by our rules.

-River

Wait, I thought you said you didn't buy into the whole "racial guilt" thing. Yet here you are telling all of us (those of us that are white, that is) that we are to blame for the social problems and injustices. How many people here were adults that could have effected the situation when racism was law? How many of us had even been born? And those of us that are old enough, how many are in any position to change things? If one entire race can be guilty of a collective crime, who's to say that racial steriotypes aren't true?

When you make generalizations like that, it is no different than saying that "all black men are sexual animals that want nothing more than to rape white women". It's just not true. I wasn't even alive yet when the major injustices occured, so am I to blame for setting "the game board"?

I do believe that white privelege exists, to an extent. A lot of it is more because of public perception, than a grand scheme to keep minorities down. People see on shows like "Cops", that most of the druggies and other criminals that are arrested are black or hispanic. Therefore, people are more inclined to trust those NOT seen as criminals, and so asians, or whites are seen (probably subconsciously by most) as better, and smarter.

Now, it's common knowledge that the ratio of free blacks to imprisoned blacks is ridiculously low, while the ratio of free whites to imprisoned whites is relatively high. But that is less because of racism than the fact that most blacks live below the poverty line. Yes, whites of the past created that problem, and not much has been done since to fix it. But, also, not much has been done to hinder the financial growth of the impoverished minorities. I have a Mexican uncle (a first generation immigrant) who worked hard to get U.S. citizenship, then went from being cheap labor, merely one of millions of others, to being a multi-millionaire carpet-business owner. How did he do it? Not through racial advantage.

By the same token, there are intelligent, hard working whites who competently work their asses off five to six days a week for years, and never make more than 30,000 dollars a year (My father is one of them). How are they benefiting from the racial advantage?

Another part of the problem is the perception of the problem itself. Because people always hear about racism, and how it is supposedly affecting them, what little real racial advantage there is is exaggerated until it's become some globe-spanning conspiracy of Whites.

I saw a story in the news a couple years ago, in which a black man in San Diego, California, was blaming the fact that most San Diegan blacks don't know how to swim on laws repealed forty years before that prohibited blacks from using public pools. He was saying that whites were collectively to blame for the fact that in FORTY YEARS, blacks didn't bother to learn how to swim. And of course, the white news crew looked, and acted ashamed, and actually apologized to the idiot, because if they didn't agree with what ever the man said (because of the color of his skin), they would have 1)been labelled racists, and 2)lost their jobs. So where's the racial advantage in that situation? Where is the grand racist infrastructure keeping the black man down? I don't see it. If anything, now, there's a grand racist conspiracy to keep the white man from exercising his/her right to free speech, and to make the white man feel inferior because of the actions of those long gone.

I acknowledge that white men created many of the social problems we have today, but I refuse to accept blame for anything done before I was born, or in a position to do any good.

[img]

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 7:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Reaverman:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Actually "Whitey" is the blame for a lot of current conditions of other races in the United States and I don't care how you try to play it. In many ways defensive Whites are attempting, or have been attempting to make the other races the blame for the game board that we whites put together, so we can feel okay with our whiteness, and privilege by placing the blame on the victims of our greed and high-handedness of the past and present. I don't buy it. Whitey should be blamed because it's our game by our rules.

-River

Wait, I thought you said you didn't buy into the whole "racial guilt" thing. Yet here you are telling all of us (those of us that are white, that is) that we are to blame for the social problems and injustices. How many people here were adults that could have effected the situation when racism was law? How many of us had even been born? And those of us that are old enough, how many are in any position to change things? If one entire race can be guilty of a collective crime, who's to say that racial steriotypes aren't true?

When you make generalizations like that, it is no different than saying that "all black men are sexual animals that want nothing more than to rape white women". It's just not true. I wasn't even alive yet when the major injustices occured, so am I to blame for setting "the game board"?

I do believe that white privelege exists, to an extent. A lot of it is more because of public perception, than a grand scheme to keep minorities down. People see on shows like "Cops", that most of the druggies and other criminals that are arrested are black or hispanic. Therefore, people are more inclined to trust those NOT seen as criminals, and so asians, or whites are seen (probably subconsciously by most) as better, and smarter.

Now, it's common knowledge that the ratio of free blacks to imprisoned blacks is ridiculously low, while the ratio of free whites to imprisoned whites is relatively high. But that is less because of racism than the fact that most blacks live below the poverty line. Yes, whites of the past created that problem, and not much has been done since to fix it. But, also, not much has been done to hinder the financial growth of the impoverished minorities. I have a Mexican uncle (a first generation immigrant) who worked hard to get U.S. citizenship, then went from being cheap labor, merely one of millions of others, to being a multi-millionaire carpet-business owner. How did he do it? Not through racial advantage.

By the same token, there are intelligent, hard working whites who competently work their asses off five to six days a week for years, and never make more than 30,000 dollars a year (My father is one of them). How are they benefiting from the racial advantage?

Another part of the problem is the perception of the problem itself. Because people always hear about racism, and how it is supposedly affecting them, what little real racial advantage there is is exaggerated until it's become some globe-spanning conspiracy of Whites.

I saw a story in the news a couple years ago, in which a black man in San Diego, California, was blaming the fact that most San Diegan blacks don't know how to swim on laws repealed forty years before that prohibited blacks from using public pools. He was saying that whites were collectively to blame for the fact that in FORTY YEARS, blacks didn't bother to learn how to swim. And of course, the white news crew looked, and acted ashamed, and actually apologized to the idiot, because if they didn't agree with what ever the man said (because of the color of his skin), they would have 1)been labelled racists, and 2)lost their jobs. So where's the racial advantage in that situation? Where is the grand racist infrastructure keeping the black man down? I don't see it. If anything, now, there's a grand racist conspiracy to keep the white man from exercising his/her right to free speech, and to make the white man feel inferior because of the actions of those long gone.

I acknowledge that white men created many of the social problems we have today, but I refuse to accept blame for anything done before I was born, or in a position to do any good.

Every White man I've ever met has been a scheming, crooked, low morals, take-advantage-of-everything-in sight, righteous jerks. I don't believe I've ever met an honest, hard working white man in my whole life, and I've been around the block. White men walk about acting like everyone owes them something; like all of humanity should bend low and kiss their collective narrow asses. White men caused most of the primary problems in the United States before you were born, and after you were born and they are still at it. I'm almost certain that you in your own thoughtless way have contributed in some fashion without even being aware of it. Almost all the top slots of government and business are controlled by guess who? White men which means they are making policy, and that policy trickles down to us lesser, undeserving people, and has national and international impact. Who controls all avenues of the media? White men. White men are able to paint the face of what is called America and half those images are lies. Who controls the most awesome military in the world? White men. They have the weapons to subjugate anyone who dares to speak out against them.

White men are whining that they are being oppressed and that their right to have free speech is being infringed upon. When White men HAD total free speech, and control look how they abused it...they locked off all avenues of opportunity for everyone else that wasn't them, and wast white, and tried to keep the power all to themselves until the country nearly exploded in the process. White men do not know how to share power...LoL! White men don't know how to share anything.

Women should have never had to fight to vote. Woman should have never had to feel like our roles had been devalued by white male culture to the point where we had to stand up and take control of our lives and futures because White men had tried to deny those futures and possible futures. "This far but no further" your gender told us. Blacks should have never had to have a civil rights movement let alone a thousand organizations that have been put into place to ensure that White males do not take advantage of them, which White men STILL try to do everyday even in this day and time. There should have never had been a reason for the Blacks to "March on Washington" Except for Vietnam, the Civil Rights Movement should have never taken place. There SHOULD have been no reason for it but it did happen because of White males.

As much as you whine about how "oppressed" white males are your gender holds ALL the power in the United States. Your gender's just mad that it isn't as easy as it was in the good old days to push other people around. For god's sake your gender created the nuclear bomb, which makes you the biggest killers in Earth's history. Your gender fought the biggest, and most terrible wars this earth has ever seen. Your gender's calling all the shots, and your gender believes that White privilege is your god given right, and the rest of us should just go right along with it and fall in line. You are not oppressed, and many of you are not honest; I don't buy that for a second. I've fought White males all of my life and I know the enemy which I deal with, but unfortunately there are too many sisters who believe your rubbish. I am not one of them.

I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but White men are the number one reason WHY the United States is so fucked up right now. Almost every last major issue you can see how and where the white man had gotten involved and either mishandled something, or try to start something that failed, or tried using policy that backfired in some way. Also when it comes to dealing with people white men FAIL completely, which is why I never bother dating them. I'll date another race any day over a thoughtless White man. Also, why do white men seem to act like everyone owes them something?

And yes this post is full of generalizations, but I stand correct. I don't believe out of the 300 million people in the United States that there is not ONE honest, non White privilege thinking, old boy networked white man to be found. Simply put, White men are never to be trusted because they ruined the United States. I bet hell is totally full of White men.

-River

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 8:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Every White man I've ever met has been a scheming, crooked, low morals, take-advantage-of-everything-in sight, righteous jerks. I don't believe I've ever met an honest, hard working white man in my whole life, and I've been around the block. White men walk about acting like everyone owes them something;White men caused most of the primary problems in the United States before you were born, and after you were born and they are still at it. I'm almost certain that you in your own thoughtless way have contributed in some fashion without even being aware of it. Almost all the top slots of government and business are controlled by guess who? White men which means they are making policy, and that policy trickles down to us lesser, undeserving people, and has national and international impact. Who controls all avenues of the media? White men. White men are able to paint the face of what is called America and half those images are lies. Who controls the most awesome military in the world? White men. They have the weapons to subjugate anyone who dares to speak out against them.

The main reason that most people in positions of power are white males is because the majority of them are wealthy, and are members of families that have been wealthy since the times when being a white male really did give you glaringly obvious benefits. They are "Old Money". And what makes the world go 'round? Money. What gets people into positions of power? Money.

Granted, the reason for the lack of wealthy minorities was white men, but almost all of the old restrictions have been dropped. They (minorities and women) just haven't had time to uproot the entrenched aristocracy. When they finally do, though, not much will change. Then you'll just have men and women of every race acting like they own everything, and lording over the rest of us.

Quote:
White men are whining that they are being oppressed and that their right to have free speech is being infringed upon. When White men HAD total free speech, and control look how they abused it...they locked off all avenues of opportunity for everyone else that wasn't them, and wast white, and tried to keep the power all to themselves until the country nearly exploded in the process.

I don't care if a lot of the men in power (politicians and corporate CEOs) have their free speech rights taken away. You are right in that neither of those groups have done humanity any good. What angers me and most middle-to-lower-class whites is that the actions of a few are resulting in us having to censor ourselves, and us having to live in fear of saying the wrong thing.

And I, for one do not want control. Just free speech. Plus, would history have been very different if it had been Black men running things? No. Or Hispanic men running things? No. Or women running things? No. The events would have been different, but the overall pattern of opression would have remained the same. Hunger for power over others is a flaw present in all of humanity, black, white, male, female. It is a problem with the human race, not just the white one.

Quote:
White men do not know how to share power...LoL! White men don't know how to share anything.

Women should have never had to fight to vote. Woman should have never had to feel like our roles had been devalued by white male culture to the point where we had to stand up and take control of our lives and futures because White men had tried to deny those futures and possible futures. "This far but no further" your gender told us. Blacks should have never had to have a civil rights movement let alone a thousand organizations that have been put into place to ensure that White males do not take advantage of them, which White men STILL try to do everyday even in this day and time. There should have never had been a reason for the Blacks to "March on Washington" Except for Vietnam, the Civil Rights Movement should have never taken place. There SHOULD have been no reason for it but it did happen because of White males.

As much as you whine about how "oppressed" white males are your gender holds ALL the power in the United States. Your gender's just mad that it isn't as easy as it was in the good old days to push other people around. For god's sake your gender created the nuclear bomb, which makes you the biggest killers in Earth's history. Your gender fought the biggest, and most terrible wars this earth has ever seen. Your gender's calling all the shots, and your gender believes that White privilege is your god given right, and the rest of us should just go right along with it and fall in line. You are not oppressed, and many of you are not honest; I don't buy that for a second. I've fought White males all of my life and I know the enemy which I deal with, but unfortunately there are too many sisters who believe your rubbish. I am not one of them.

I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but White men are the number one reason WHY the United States is so fucked up right now. Almost every last major issue you can see how and where the white man had gotten involved and either mishandled something, or try to start something that failed, or tried using policy that backfired in some way. Also when it comes to dealing with people white men FAIL completely, which is why I never bother dating them. I'll date another race any day over a thoughtless White man. Also, why do white men seem to act like everyone owes them something?

And yes this post is full of generalizations, but I stand correct. I don't believe out of the 300 million people in the United States that there is not ONE honest, non White privilege thinking, old boy networked white man to be found. Simply put, White men are never to be trusted because they ruined the United States. I bet hell is totally full of White men.

-River

Do you hate me, River? After all, I am a white male. Do you hate me for being born? I don't hate you, despite the utterly foolish, ignorant insults to my race, and by extension, myself, many of my friends, and most of my family.

Who was it that talked to you and tried to be your friend when you were hell-bent on killing yourself? Who was it that tried to show you that people really can care about what happens to you? Who was it that cared for someone he'd never met in person so much that he broke down when he thought he'd failed you and you had ended your own life?

Me. A white male. Does it hurt to know that your "enemy" cares?

I'm going to bed. I can't deal with this shit anymore right now.

[img]

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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Reaverman:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Every White man I've ever met has been a scheming, crooked, low morals, take-advantage-of-everything-in sight, righteous jerks. I don't believe I've ever met an honest, hard working white man in my whole life, and I've been around the block. White men walk about acting like everyone owes them something;White men caused most of the primary problems in the United States before you were born, and after you were born and they are still at it. I'm almost certain that you in your own thoughtless way have contributed in some fashion without even being aware of it. Almost all the top slots of government and business are controlled by guess who? White men which means they are making policy, and that policy trickles down to us lesser, undeserving people, and has national and international impact. Who controls all avenues of the media? White men. White men are able to paint the face of what is called America and half those images are lies. Who controls the most awesome military in the world? White men. They have the weapons to subjugate anyone who dares to speak out against them.

The main reason that most people in positions of power are white males is because the majority of them are wealthy, and are members of families that have been wealthy since the times when being a white male really did give you glaringly obvious benefits. They are "Old Money". And what makes the world go 'round? Money. What gets people into positions of power? Money.

Granted, the reason for the lack of wealthy minorities was white men, but almost all of the old restrictions have been dropped. They (minorities and women) just haven't had time to uproot the entrenched aristocracy. When they finally do, though, not much will change. Then you'll just have men and women of every race acting like they own everything, and lording over the rest of us.

Quote:
White men are whining that they are being oppressed and that their right to have free speech is being infringed upon. When White men HAD total free speech, and control look how they abused it...they locked off all avenues of opportunity for everyone else that wasn't them, and wast white, and tried to keep the power all to themselves until the country nearly exploded in the process.

I don't care if a lot of the men in power (politicians and corporate CEOs) have their free speech rights taken away. You are right in that neither of those groups have done humanity any good. What angers me and most middle-to-lower-class whites is that the actions of a few are resulting in us having to censor ourselves, and us having to live in fear of saying the wrong thing.

And I, for one do not want control. Just free speech. Plus, would history have been very different if it had been Black men running things? No. Or Hispanic men running things? No. Or women running things? No. The events would have been different, but the overall pattern of opression would have remained the same. Hunger for power over others is a flaw present in all of humanity, black, white, male, female. It is a problem with the human race, not just the white one.

Quote:
White men do not know how to share power...LoL! White men don't know how to share anything.

Women should have never had to fight to vote. Woman should have never had to feel like our roles had been devalued by white male culture to the point where we had to stand up and take control of our lives and futures because White men had tried to deny those futures and possible futures. "This far but no further" your gender told us. Blacks should have never had to have a civil rights movement let alone a thousand organizations that have been put into place to ensure that White males do not take advantage of them, which White men STILL try to do everyday even in this day and time. There should have never had been a reason for the Blacks to "March on Washington" Except for Vietnam, the Civil Rights Movement should have never taken place. There SHOULD have been no reason for it but it did happen because of White males.

As much as you whine about how "oppressed" white males are your gender holds ALL the power in the United States. Your gender's just mad that it isn't as easy as it was in the good old days to push other people around. For god's sake your gender created the nuclear bomb, which makes you the biggest killers in Earth's history. Your gender fought the biggest, and most terrible wars this earth has ever seen. Your gender's calling all the shots, and your gender believes that White privilege is your god given right, and the rest of us should just go right along with it and fall in line. You are not oppressed, and many of you are not honest; I don't buy that for a second. I've fought White males all of my life and I know the enemy which I deal with, but unfortunately there are too many sisters who believe your rubbish. I am not one of them.

I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but White men are the number one reason WHY the United States is so fucked up right now. Almost every last major issue you can see how and where the white man had gotten involved and either mishandled something, or try to start something that failed, or tried using policy that backfired in some way. Also when it comes to dealing with people white men FAIL completely, which is why I never bother dating them. I'll date another race any day over a thoughtless White man. Also, why do white men seem to act like everyone owes them something?

And yes this post is full of generalizations, but I stand correct. I don't believe out of the 300 million people in the United States that there is not ONE honest, non White privilege thinking, old boy networked white man to be found. Simply put, White men are never to be trusted because they ruined the United States. I bet hell is totally full of White men.

-River

Do you hate me, River? After all, I am a white male. Do you hate me for being born? I don't hate you, despite the utterly foolish, ignorant insults to my race, and by extension, myself, many of my friends, and most of my family.

Who was it that talked to you and tried to be your friend when you were hell-bent on killing yourself? Who was it that tried to show you that people really can care about what happens to you? Who was it that cared for someone he'd never met in person so much that he broke down when he thought he'd failed you and you had ended your own life?

Me. A white male. Does it hurt to know that your "enemy" cares?

I'm going to bed. I can't deal with this shit anymore right now.

You make it sound like I owe you something. Do I owe you something? Should I not say what I believe is a truth? You make it sound personal. No Reaverman I don't hate you. Out of most here you have been reasonable, or at least tried to make your point without name-calling and minimizing the situation. You have made an effort to try to think things out. You must remember that I too am white, and the things I have spoken of and about includes myself in the mix. I am part of a people that have made many other races miserable in order to secure our place in history and eventually make a bid for complete world domination. That is the whole unspoken goal of any race when it gets right down to it, but in our case, and in the White male's case it seems that taking over the world is not enough...we want everyone to agree in their hearts that we are good, and righteous, and special, and MORE deserving. We want to go to places like Iraq and turn their country upside down creating a power vacuum, and then we want the people of Iraq to thank us for it. Good luck with that. We want to screw with Native Americans and black people and then expect them to behave like us. Good luck with that. We Woman have been screwed with by most males of all races and you all want us to love you for it. Good luck with that.

If I were you I wouldn't take any of the things said here to heart like you seem to be doing. No need to go stomping off to bed feeling "tired of this shit" What did you expect me to do...agree with all of what you said an not add my own world view into it? I'm just talking about my experience, I will not go, I refuse to along with the unspoken, non questioning that seems to go along with White Privilege, and I will most certainly not support the ideas of the so-called old boy's network. It's not within me to do so.

I will be called a drunk, stupid, and an idiot for this post. I will be called this because what I'm saying goes against every thing we have all been taught, and brain-washed regarding this issue. Some of you will feel betrayed, and feel like someone is blaming you for something, which actually I am. If I were any other race you would all dismiss this, but I am one of your own; I see the truth into things concerning our race. I know what we are. We may be clever, smart, and inventive, but when it comes to other human beings different from us...we just don't have a clue and assume that everyone in the world wants to be just like us. Our cleverness with our technology has tricked us into believing that we are divine beings. Most of the people in the world admire our technology, but they don't particularly want to be us. We just don't seem to be getting the memo on this part of it, and not everyone is going to subscribe to White privilege.

So Reaverman if you are bothered by this response I would like to say that I'm sorry, but I'm not. I don't think we are more deserving than any other race. We are clever but that's where it ends.

-River

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 4:42 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Some of you will feel betrayed, and feel like someone is blaming you for something, which actually I am."

I'm a second generation USer. My family on both sides goes back to Poland for several hundred years. Nobody in my lineage had anything to do with slave-owning and oppression of Blacks. I was born into a system of white privilege that I didn't create, as I was born outside of the system of male privilege, that I also didn't create.

I don't deny that it's there. So I try to not personally perpetuate it, but as far as I can tell there is very little I can do to change it.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 4:44 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

You say whitey, I say gringo.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Typical whitey. So git in the corner Finn, siddown and shaddup.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 4:46 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn,

Imagine that you came from the same circumstances but your skin was something other that white or yellow (the other white).

It would have been far harder for you to do what you did. That's all I am saying.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 4:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
And yes this post is full of generalizations, but I stand correct. I don't believe out of the 300 million people in the United States that there is not ONE honest, non White privilege thinking, old boy networked white man to be found. Simply put, White men are never to be trusted because they ruined the United States. I bet hell is totally full of White men.

Well, at least the question of whether you’re a racist has been answered. And if there was any debate on your chauvinist tendencies, that’s pretty much answered too. Although, I have to hand one thing to you, you’re honest, in a dumb kind of a way. I bet there are a good number of left-wing/feminist types on this board who are just as racist and chauvinist, but they don’t have the coglioni to admit it.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 5:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
And yes this post is full of generalizations, but I stand correct. I don't believe out of the 300 million people in the United States that there is not ONE honest, non White privilege thinking, old boy networked white man to be found. Simply put, White men are never to be trusted because they ruined the United States. I bet hell is totally full of White men.
Well, at least the question of whether you’re a racist has been answered. And if there was any debate on your chauvinist tendencies, that’s pretty much answered too. Although, I have to hand one thing to you, you’re honest, in a dumb kind of a way. I bet there are a good number of left-wing/feminist types on this board who are just as racist and chauvinist, but they don’t have the coglioni to admit it.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

What he said......Well, at least he didn't call you a drunk psychotic fucking retard....I would have. Oops! I just did.....

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 5:41 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I bet there are a good number of left-wing/feminist types on this board who are just as racist and chauvinist ..."

And therein lies your error.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 8:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but White men are the number one reason WHY the United States is so fucked up right now.

Maybe. I blame white men for founding a nation conceived in liberty and bound by the proposition that all men are created equal. I blame white men for creating a system of government that has continued to spread the blessings of liberty to persons of all faiths, races, genders, and economic background. Damn those white men for making a nation that stands as an example of all that can be right in the world...peace, prosperity, innovation, security, and the rule of law.

You see the United States as "so fucked up right now" but thats because you don't have any basis of comparison. The world was once a dark place ruled by tyranny, now not so much.

A fitting tribute to white men of America...then and now:
"These heroes are dead. They died for liberty—they died for us. They are at rest. They sleep in the land they made free, under the flag they rendered stainless, under the solemn pines, the sad hemlocks, the tearful willows, the embracing vines. They sleep beneath the shadows of the clouds, careless alike of sunshine or storm, each in the windowless palace of rest. Earth may run red with other wars—they are at peace. In the midst of battles, in the roar of conflict, they found the serenity of death."-Robert Green Ingersoll. (1833–1899)

Quote:

-River

I named my dog River. Some gentle persuasion was all it took to get her to stop peeing on the rug. I'm sure it will be the same with you.

H

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 8:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

You make it sound like I owe you something. Do I owe you something? Should I not say what I believe is a truth? You make it sound personal. No Reaverman I don't hate you. Out of most here you have been reasonable, or at least tried to make your point without name-calling and minimizing the situation. You have made an effort to try to think things out. You must remember that I too am white, and the things I have spoken of and about includes myself in the mix. I am part of a people that have made many other races miserable in order to secure our place in history and eventually make a bid for complete world domination. That is the whole unspoken goal of any race when it gets right down to it, but in our case, and in the White male's case it seems that taking over the world is not enough...we want everyone to agree in their hearts that we are good, and righteous, and special, and MORE deserving. We want to go to places like Iraq and turn their country upside down creating a power vacuum, and then we want the people of Iraq to thank us for it. Good luck with that. We want to screw with Native Americans and black people and then expect them to behave like us. Good luck with that. We Woman have been screwed with by most males of all races and you all want us to love you for it. Good luck with that.

If I were you I wouldn't take any of the things said here to heart like you seem to be doing. No need to go stomping off to bed feeling "tired of this shit" What did you expect me to do...agree with all of what you said an not add my own world view into it? I'm just talking about my experience, I will not go, I refuse to along with the unspoken, non questioning that seems to go along with White Privilege, and I will most certainly not support the ideas of the so-called old boy's network. It's not within me to do so.

I will be called a drunk, stupid, and an idiot for this post. I will be called this because what I'm saying goes against every thing we have all been taught, and brain-washed regarding this issue. Some of you will feel betrayed, and feel like someone is blaming you for something, which actually I am. If I were any other race you would all dismiss this, but I am one of your own; I see the truth into things concerning our race. I know what we are. We may be clever, smart, and inventive, but when it comes to other human beings different from us...we just don't have a clue and assume that everyone in the world wants to be just like us. Our cleverness with our technology has tricked us into believing that we are divine beings. Most of the people in the world admire our technology, but they don't particularly want to be us. We just don't seem to be getting the memo on this part of it, and not everyone is going to subscribe to White privilege.

So Reaverman if you are bothered by this response I would like to say that I'm sorry, but I'm not. I don't think we are more deserving than any other race. We are clever but that's where it ends.

-River

River, I'm not saying you're completely wrong, because you are right about a lot of the things you've said. But what I disagree with is the fact that you are saying that the flaws that led to our current situation are inherent in white men. They're not. They're inherent in ambitious men and women of any race.

What it boils down to is who developed the technology first (technological superiority has historically led to feelings of racial superiority). If Africans had managed to overcome tribal rivalries and develope more advanced weapons and tactics, they would have colonized Europe. They would have come up with excuses like the "Black man's burden" to justify racial imperialism. Whites and whoever else the Africans conquered would have probably been enslaved. Over the years, racist beliefs would have been ingrained into society by generations of children being taught that those of the "lesser" races are stupid and sub-human, allowing racism to long outlive any technological/social advantages one race has over another. And several centuries later, we would have the same social problems that we have now, except it would be "Black priveledge" we are arguing about now. The same goes for asians or hispanics. It isn't a racial problem. The fact that whites ended up on top is more a matter of luck than any racial trait. It is a HUMAN problem.

[img]

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 9:03 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Jared Diamond spent several hundred pages wondering why did the European area advance into the machine age first. The book is "Guns, Germs and Steel". His position is that it was a geographical accident, and he traces the development of cultures around the globe to make his case.

If I recall correctly, his first posited step was the existance of tameable draft animals. The elephant, zebra, and ox in Africa aren't able to be domesticated and so Africa only went so far in the development of large-scale agriculture. And so on in like manner ...

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 10:05 AM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but White men are the number one reason WHY the United States is so fucked up right now.

Maybe. I blame white men for founding a nation conceived in liberty and bound by the proposition that all men are created equal. I blame white men for creating a system of government that has continued to spread the blessings of liberty to persons of all faiths, races, genders, and economic background. Damn those white men for making a nation that stands as an example of all that can be right in the world...peace, prosperity, innovation, security, and the rule of law.

You see the United States as "so fucked up right now" but thats because you don't have any basis of comparison. The world was once a dark place ruled by tyranny, now not so much.

A fitting tribute to white men of America...then and now:
"These heroes are dead. They died for liberty—they died for us. They are at rest. They sleep in the land they made free, under the flag they rendered stainless, under the solemn pines, the sad hemlocks, the tearful willows, the embracing vines. They sleep beneath the shadows of the clouds, careless alike of sunshine or storm, each in the windowless palace of rest. Earth may run red with other wars—they are at peace. In the midst of battles, in the roar of conflict, they found the serenity of death."-Robert Green Ingersoll. (1833–1899)

Quote:

-River

I named my dog River. Some gentle persuasion was all it took to get her to stop peeing on the rug. I'm sure it will be the same with you.

Unfortunately, many of the points you use actually support River's original comments. "Men created equal", yep. No women's sufferage. On the flip side, for their time, these guys did lead a path to greater equity for the 'common person' than existed before; it was a step in the right direction. I believe there's a middle path here folks just might tread that could yield a little insight.

As far as your 'gentle persuassion' comment goes, I'd personally smack you silly for that myself; however, River would find that offensive... so I will refrain, and stand back and watch the fireworks on that one.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
"Men created equal", yep. No women's sufferage.

The founders could not change the world overnight. They did create a system that embaced liberty as its guiding principal. As long as that was true the women's sufferage became as inevitable and unalienable as freedom for the slaves and the defeat of tyranny.

H

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 6:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
"Men created equal", yep. No women's sufferage.

The founders could not change the world overnight. They did create a system that embaced liberty as its guiding principal. As long as that was true the women's sufferage became as inevitable and unalienable as freedom for the slaves and the defeat of tyranny.

H

Also, who knew “suffrage” was a good thing? Honestly. If you’d never heard the word before and some guy walked up to you and asked if you wanted “some suffrage” would you say yes?

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 6:49 PM

Just face the realities and acknowledge White privilege and admit that you benefit from it, and move on. Admit that you do have the advantage here in the United States over some average dark-skinned person. Just admit that when you leave the restaurant you can say "The money is on the table" and people will automatically take your word for it.

The Funny part about the people that made this so-called Alliance, I mean United States great was that they WERE really great, but the rest of White humanity who have never done anything of value except for breed and shoot their mouths off gets to reap the rewards. I love it. We whites walk around acting as though we are all superior to the other races but when it gets right down to it...a few did great things and the many try to act like they themselves did the great acts, and attempt to take all the credit. A good question all of you mouthy white males should be asking yourselves is "What did YOU create, or invent? How did YOU contribute to the so-called greatness of the white race?" Seems to me that a lot of modern, White males are taking the credit of superiority from their ancestors. You guys are a complete joke, and I laugh LONG time at your knuckle-dragging stupidity.

White Males...It's NOT what's for dinner.

-River

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 7:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but White men are the number one reason WHY the United States is so fucked up right now.

Quote:

I named my dog River. Some gentle persuasion was all it took to get her to stop peeing on the rug. I'm sure it will be the same with you.

*laughter*
I'm in a good mood Mr. man.
I would like to spill your entrails out on the highway, or at least feed them to my dog named Binky. You mouthy white males will do anything for attention.

-River

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Wednesday, June 6, 2007 9:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
The founders could not change the world overnight. They did create a system that embaced liberty as its guiding principal. As long as that was true the women's sufferage became as inevitable and unalienable as freedom for the slaves and the defeat of tyranny.

You know, while I have no hard evidence to support it, cause none of the men of the time would admit such a thing -
I have a hard time believing that womens sufferage came about as a result of laughable and easily ignored marches.

It is rather my intense suspicion that it came about cause women stopped putting out till they got what they wanted.

I make no apologies for being born a kraka honkey mofo, but I been as poor as any homie and have been kicked by the same people, right o ?

But seriously, us white guys are so bitched you'd not believe it - you wanna change white america, don't talk to us men about it, we might pretend otherwise, but it ain't us that's the power folks.

WOMEN think with their minds, us men use a different appendage for that.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 4:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Just face the realities and acknowledge White privilege and admit that you benefit from it, and move on. Admit that you do have the advantage here in the United States over some average dark-skinned person. Just admit that when you leave the restaurant you can say "The money is on the table" and people will automatically take your word for it.

I'm a heterosexual white male under 35, the only unprotected class of folk in this country. Don't talk to me about privilage. There were no scholarships, no affirmative action, no benefits of any kind.

"The money is on the table" is only relevant if the money is actually on the table. Besides, some places want you to pay at the door, so leaving the money on the table is wrong regardless of color.

Besides, your missing the bigger picture. There was a time when the money could not be on the table because the non-white folk were outside looking in. And a time before that when they were the servants. And before that when they were slaves.

In my business I've found that when a man beats his wife, color is not relevant. When a woman drinks and drives her car into a minivan full of kids, color just does not matter. I do find non-white males seeking to exert privilage in their defense. After all the cop was white so the black defendant can't be guilty regardless of the facts.

This whole privilage argument is just an excuse to refuse to take personal responsibility for your own success and failure. You have to work hard to get by, life is hard...must be a conspiracy against you. Guess what, everybody works and black people have more in common with white people then either of them have with rich liberals with $400 haircuts and masions the size of apartment buildings (ok cheap John Edwards shot...also applies to rich conservatives, but at least they are not pretending to be something they're not).

H

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 4:15 AM

River wrote while drinking heavily:
"but White men are the number one reason WHY the United States is so fucked up right now"

You don't really believe that. You must be the product of a west-coast liberal blame whitey first upbringing. The world has changed. White men no longer want to dominate, they are happy to just dance funny......Well, just the opinion of a black Tunisian woman.........

Love always kaneman

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 4:17 AM

"I'm a heterosexual white male under 35, the only unprotected class of folk in this country. Don't talk to me about privilage. There were no scholarships, no affirmative action, no benefits of any kind."

Tell me about it. This whole thread is a joke. Priveledge is no longer because of the color of your skin...Its who you KNOW.........Well, it's true..........

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 7:02 AM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Just face the realities and acknowledge White privilege and admit that you benefit from it, and move on. Admit that you do have the advantage here in the United States over some average dark-skinned person. Just admit that when you leave the restaurant you can say "The money is on the table" and people will automatically take your word for it.
[...]
-River

Won't happen. I'll concede there is still "white privilege" from which I benefit; but until the playing field is leveled, I will not simply 'move on' while I can do something to move toward a move toward a more level field.

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 7:14 AM

“There is another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs -- partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs....There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who do not want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public.”
-- Booker T. Washington

In Washington’s day, this “class of colored people” may have been predominately African-American, but today this philsophy has migrated and come to dominate the domestic polices of a large part of Left-wing politics in America advocated by as many and probably more white people then black.

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 8:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
River wrote while drinking heavily:
"but White men are the number one reason WHY the United States is so fucked up right now"

You don't really believe that. You must be the product of a west-coast liberal blame whitey first upbringing. The world has changed. White men no longer want to dominate, they are happy to just dance funny......Well, just the opinion of a black Tunisian woman.........

Love always kaneman

I have not dranked since last Saturday's fun filled, floor, free fall out of the chair experience, which I'm not looking forward to repeating in the future anytime soon. Anyhow. Whatever gave you the idea that I am left-wing or liberal? Also some knuckle-dragger said I was experincing White Guilt? I don't think so. Does one have to be a Left-winger, a Liberal, or a White guilted up person to point out the evils of their own race?

And yes white men do want to dominate; it's in their nature, and they will never change.

-River

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 8:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
“There is another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs -- partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs....There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who do not want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public.”
-- Booker T. Washington

In Washington’s day, this “class of colored people” may have been predominately African-American, but today this philsophy has migrated and come to dominate the domestic polices of a large part of Left-wing politics in America advocated by as many and probably more white people then black.

*laughter*

Why oh why do you white males always go for the conversational distraction from the topic when all you really need to do is get down on your knees and pray to God for forgivness regarding White Privilege and promise not to do it again? I mean really! Why do you need to make quotes and speeches to defend your position and right to have white Privliege. Also why is it when the subject of White Privilege is brought up every white person female, or male denies that they have never been helped by white privilege?

White Privilege is a reality and YOU benefit from it. Face it.

-River

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 8:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
"I'm a heterosexual white male under 35, the only unprotected class of folk in this country. Don't talk to me about privilage. There were no scholarships, no affirmative action, no benefits of any kind."

In a world where you have every advantage...Could it be that you are just lazy?

-River

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 8:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Why oh why do you white males always go for the conversational distraction from the topic when all you really need to do is get down on your knees and pray to God for forgivness regarding White Privilege and promise not to do it again? I mean really! Why do you need to make quotes and speeches to defend your position and right to have white Privliege.

No “white” male made that quote.

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Thursday, June 7, 2007 9:21 AM