REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

2 of Bali 9 executed early this morning.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 18:50
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Tuesday, April 28, 2015 5:11 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


‘Bali Nine’ leaders executed by firing squad in Indonesia

Indonesia has executed two Australians who had been convicted of drug charges, in a sentence that was was carried out despite global pleas to spare the duo from a firing squad.

Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan were among those executed early Wednesday, according to the Jakarta Post. A total of eight prisoners were killed in Wednesday’s execution, the Jakarta Post reported.

One Filipino woman received a last-minute reprieve, according to the newspaper.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2015 8:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
‘Bali Nine’ leaders executed by firing squad in Indonesia

Indonesia has executed two Australians who had been convicted of drug charges, in a sentence that was was carried out despite global pleas to spare the duo from a firing squad.

Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan were among those executed early Wednesday, according to the Jakarta Post. A total of eight prisoners were killed in Wednesday’s execution, the Jakarta Post reported.

One Filipino woman received a last-minute reprieve, according to the newspaper.


I have not heard the details. Were the pleas because they were innocent? Railroaded? Not allowed a defense? They never committed these crimes, or any crimes?
If they did actually commit the crimes, what was the beef from the globe? Do the crime, pay the fine.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2015 8:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I dunno the details, but it sounds like they did commit the crimes, spent 10 years in jail, and THEN were executed. A bit on the harsh side, imo, for just transporting drugs in, or what ever it was they did. From the comments I heard, they were basically just mules, and the actual guys in charge, the drug lords or what ever, haven't been caught.

Aussies really were bent over this, w/ even some suggesting going to war.

Admittedly, they were just venting, over the needless severity of the sentence, but many really are angry.

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Tuesday, April 28, 2015 8:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I dunno the details, but it sounds like they did commit the crimes, spent 10 years in jail, and THEN were executed. A bit on the harsh side, imo, for just transporting drugs in, or what ever it was they did. From the comments I heard, they were basically just mules, and the actual guys in charge, the drug lords or what ever, haven't been caught.

Aussies really were bent over this, w/ even some suggesting going to war.

Admittedly, they were just venting, over the needless severity of the sentence, but many really are angry.


That sounds weird. I thought Aussies had really strict sentences. Or was that for illegal immigration, and they don't care about importation of drugs?
So, they knew the crime, they knew the fine, they decided to do it anyhow.
????

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Tuesday, April 28, 2015 9:04 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


They are strict on illegal immigration, but are pretty staunchly against capital punishment. And certainly not for the crime of running drugs. I mean, it's not like they were involved in the sex slave trade, and torturing folks. Seems to me 10 years alone would suffice. But 10 + being executed by firing squad ?

Not quite ISIS barbarism, but pretty darn close.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 29, 2015 2:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


35 people were executed in the USA in 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offenders_executed_in_the_United_
States_in_2014







SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2015 5:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


yes, thank you kiki. This story has zero to do w/ the USA, but don't let that stop you from trying to spin it into USA sucks.

Go troll somewhere else.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2015 8:01 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


The Bali 8 (sic) were not executed this morning. Two of the so called Bali 9 were executed this morning along with 6 others who had been convicted of drug crimes in Indonesia. A Filipino woman was granted a stay of execution.

Quote:

Indonesia’s execution of eight drug offenders on Wednesday has drawn international condemnation –
Indonesia’s execution of eight drug offenders on Wednesday drew international condemnation and swift diplomatic retaliation from Australia, which announced the recall of its envoy to Jakarta over the “cruel and unnecessary” killings.

Supporters of Mary Jane Veloso, a woman from the Phillipines who was also scheduled to die, celebrated her “miraculous” last-minute reprieve from the firing squad as Indonesian officials stressed her death had been “postponed, not cancelled”.

Along with Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, four Nigerian men, an Indonesian and a Brazilian were executed by firing squad at 12:30am, local time, on the Indonesian prison island of Nusa Kambangan.

The deaths of Chan and Sukumaran, convicted for their part in the so-called Bali Nine plot to export 8.3kg of heroin from Indonesia into Australia, came despite years of high-profile campaigns and high-level representations by Australian diplomats.

“These executions are both cruel and unnecessary; cruel because both Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran spent some decade in jail before being executed, and unnecessary, because both of these young Australians were fully rehabilitated while in prison,” the prime minister said.

Ministerial contacts between the two countries had been suspended “and they will remain suspended for a period”, Abbott said.

“This is a dark moment in the relationship [but] I am confident that the relationship will be restored.”

Indonesia’s attorney general, HM Prasetyo, said the withdrawal of the ambassador would be only “momentary”.

“The Netherlands have done the same thing in the past. Brazil has done the same thing,” he said. “I think this is just a momentary reaction, and this will be settled within the diplomatic sphere. What we are doing is carrying out the court decision. Every case should have an end.”

Nigerians Raheem Agbaje Salami (also known as Jamiu Owolabi Abashin), Silvester Obiekwe Nwolise, Martin Anderson and Okwuduli Oyatanze were also executed on Wednesday morning, along with Indonesian Zainal Abidin.

Veloso was temporarily spared after the woman she claims recruited her as an unknowing drug courier handed herself into Philippines police on Tuesday, hours before Veloso was scheduled to die.

Prasetyo said on Wednesday her death sentence had been “postponed, not cancelled”, after the government acceded to a request by the Philippines to allow Veloso the chance to testify against the courier, Maria Kristina Sergio, and others in human trafficking cases.

“That was why, in the end, we decided to respect the legal process going on in the Philippines, postponing the execution,” he said.

But he maintained that Veloso’s attempt to smuggle heroin into the country would still be taken into account. “Even if she was discovered to be a victim of human trafficking, the fact is that she was caught bringing heroin into Indonesia. [Being a victim] will not erase Mary Jane’s criminal responsibility,” he said.

He refused to answer whether Veloso’s sentence would be reduced if she was discovered to be a victim, but said that she was allowed to file another case review.

Asked whether Indonesia would consider a moratorium on the death penalty, he replied he would “have to think about it”.

“Particularly if we relate that to Indonesians facing death penalty in other countries. Let’s say we implement a moratorium on death penalty, will other countries do the same? There’s no guarantee, right?” he said.

News of Veloso’s eleventh hour reprieve caught out newspapers in the Philippines, whose front pages on Wednesday carried dramatic headlines announcing her death.

“Farewell, Mary Jane”, read the black-themed front page of Manila’s best-selling Filipino-language tabloid Abante. The Philippine Daily Inquirer announced: “Death came before dawn”.

Others such as the tabloid Standard declared, “PNoy is to blame”, blaming the supposed “negligence” of the Philippines’ president, Benigno Aquino, for failing to save the woman whose case has gripped the country.

Details emerged of the final moments of the eight prisoners, who declined to be blindfolded and reportedly sang hymns including Amazing Grace as their executions loomed.

“They were praising their god,” Pastor de Vega, who was present on the island, told Fairfax Media. “It was breathtaking. This was the first time I witnessed someone so excited to meet their god.”

The Brazilian government expressed its “deep sadness” at the execution of one of its citizens, 42-year-old Rodrigo Gularte, which it called a “serious event” in bilateral relations.

Gularte, who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, was caught at Jakarta airport in 2004 with 6kg of cocaine hidden in a cavity in his surfboard.

He is the second Brazilian to be executed in Indonesia this year. In January, Marco Moreira was also shot by a firing squad after being convicted of drug trafficking.

The earlier execution prompted a diplomatic crisis. The Brazilian president, Dilma Rousseff, said she was “appalled and outraged” by what happened, recalled the country’s ambassador in Jakarta for consultations and refused to accept the credentials of the new Indonesian ambassador in Brasilia.

The latest killing would prompt a further review of relations, diplomats said. “Both governments had categorised their ties as strategic and important, but obviously the fact that so many presidential appeals and other efforts of the Brazilian government have failed to produce a satisfactory answer is something that should be evaluated,” ambassador Sérgio França Danese said.

The bodies of Chan and Sukumaran arrived at a funeral home in West Jakarta on Wednesday afternoon, local time, and will be flown to Australia on Friday.

In a short statement the families of the two Australians thanked supporters. “Today we lost Myuran and Andrew. Our sons, our brothers. In the 10 years since they were arrested they did all they could to make amends, helping many others. They asked for mercy, but there was none,” they said.

“They were immensely grateful for all the support they received. We too, will be forever grateful.”

The Indonesian president, Joko Widodo, has announced his intention to clear the country’s death row of drug traffickers, insisting that narcotics are “a national emergency” that require an unforgiving response.

More than 30 foreigners are estimated to be on death row in Indonesia, but plans for a third round of executions have yet to be announced.




http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/29/bali-nine-australia-recal
ls-ambassador-as-world-condemns-executions


Capital punishment is a barbaric practise that serves no useful purpose, and like torture, only serves to dehumanise and corrupt societies that condone it.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2015 5:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So, only 2 of the Bali 9... thanks for the correction. I only had heard that members of the Bali 9 were executed, w/ one's sentence being commuted.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2015 8:06 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
35 people were executed in the USA in 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offenders_executed_in_the_United_
States_in_2014




Quote:




That chart looks like the Clinton reign had banner years, then during Bush declined, but resurged once Obama got in.
Clinton was able to triple the rate, then Bush only had one year with more than any of Clinton's last 4 years, and Obama needed six years to drop below the lowest year under Bush.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2015 8:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, only 2 of the Bali 9... thanks for the correction. I only had heard that members of the Bali 9 were executed, w/ one's sentence being commuted.


I also thank MD for the correction. I have heard numerous MSM reports that the executions were all of the Bali 9 except the one commutation. Not that I am surprised the MSM reported lies - that is what they do.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 8:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, only 2 of the Bali 9... thanks for the correction. I only had heard that members of the Bali 9 were executed, w/ one's sentence being commuted.


I also thank MD for the correction. I have heard numerous MSM reports that the executions were all of the Bali 9 except the one commutation. Not that I am surprised the MSM reported lies - that is what they do.



It's just sloppy reporting. Now, I knew 2 of those executed were Australians, which is what got me interested in the story, as I was listening to Aussie radio as they were talking about the impending sentence that was going to be carried out. I tuned in during the day ( our time ) and it was early morning Sydney time. The executions had taken place at around 3:30 in the morning, which is something I'd never heard of before. I guess they chose the middle of the night to avoid more media scrutiny.

The Aussies I heard calling in were very put out by the executions, to say the least.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 10:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


That's their "War on (Some) Drugs", AND WHO ARE WE TO COMPLAIN?

If they believe in harsh sentencing for drug crimes, so do we. If they use capital punishment, so do we. If their inmates languish on Death Row for over a decade, so do ours. If their Death Row prisoners have mitigating circumstances, well, quite a few of our executed prisoners were mentally retarded or mentally ill. If some of their Death Row prisoners are innocent or at least guilty of lesser crimes, well then- quite a few of our inmates on Death Row were ultimately found innocent (after decades and decades in jail) because DNA evidence found the convicted person was not at the scene of the crime.

YOU GO, BALI! AND WELCOME ABOARD! [/sarcasm]

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 12:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The reason why I bring this up is not because I'm saying "We're terrible" or even "We're just as bad as "they" are".

What I find ... remarkable ... is that in thread after thread, and post after post, Americans look on in wonderment, or fear, or disgust, on what "other people" do when quite often they would find that the USA does exactly the same thing, if only they looked at events objectively.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 12:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



That chart looks like the Clinton reign had banner years

Boy, are you dumb. I mean really, flagrantly dumb. Tell me, boy, as governor of Missouri in 1999, how many of those 10 executions did Clinton preside over? And also as governor of Oklahoma in 1999, how many of those 6 executions did Clinton preside over? And as governor of South Carolina in 1999 as well, how many of those 4 executions did Clinton preside over? In addition as governor of Virginia in 1999, how many of those 14 executions did Clinton preside over? I KNOW! In 1999 when he was ALSO governor of Texas how many of those 35 executions did he preside over?

When you can show us he presided over those executions as governor in those states, you'll redeem yourself. Until then ...




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 6:35 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That's their "War on (Some) Drugs", AND WHO ARE WE TO COMPLAIN?

If they believe in harsh sentencing for drug crimes, so do we. If they use capital punishment, so do we. If their inmates languish on Death Row for over a decade, so do ours. If their Death Row prisoners have mitigating circumstances, well, quite a few of our executed prisoners were mentally retarded or mentally ill. If some of their Death Row prisoners are innocent or at least guilty of lesser crimes, well then- quite a few of our inmates on Death Row were ultimately found innocent (after decades and decades in jail) because DNA evidence found the convicted person was not at the scene of the crime.

YOU GO, BALI! AND WELCOME ABOARD! [/sarcasm]

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



Quite correct. People are calling for a boycott of travel to Indonesia, and I'm saying - you better boycott the US then and China.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 6:42 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


One of the men put to death was mentally ill and didn't understand he was to be executed.

Quote:


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Bali Nine: 'Very strong' Chan and Sukumaran 'died a respectful death' says priest
612 ABC Brisbane

Updated Thu at 4:48pm
Priest Charlie Burrows and Angelita Muxfeldt
Photo: Father Charlie Burrows with Rodrigo Gularte's cousin Angelita Muxfeldt (AFP: Romeo Gacad)
Related Story: Families await return of Bali Nine pair's bodies in next two days
Map: Indonesia

Australian drug smugglers Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were determined to die with dignity to avoid causing their parents unnecessary distress, according to a priest who was present when the men went to face the firing squad.

Father Charlie Burrows, who was acting as a spiritual adviser to Brazilian death row prisoner Rodrigo Muxfeldt Gularte, said he spoke briefly to the Australians about their rehabilitation moments before they shook hands with their warders and walked to the killing field.

"I congratulated them on their turnaround and they congratulated me on my work and that was their last words," he told 612 ABC Brisbane.

"Congratulations, you're doing a great job and congratulations, great that you've been able to turn your life around.

"I said that we pray for you and your families at this time of grief... it's a very difficult cross you have to carry."

The condemned men were tied to poles before being executed.

Father Burrows said that was to ensure the prisoners did not move around and to ensure the firing squad's aim was true.

"They were all very strong, the whole group was singing hymns ... and they chose to not be blindfolded.

"The whole idea of being strong at the execution time was to cause less suffering to the parents.

"If they heard their sons were screaming, that would really make life a lot more difficult.

"And there wasn't any screaming ... and they died a respectful death."

The men's families released a statement after the executions, saying they were immensely grateful for all the support they had received.

"Today we lost Myuran and Andrew. Our sons, our brothers. In the 10 years since they were arrested, they did all they could to make amends, helping many others. They asked for mercy, but there was none. They were immensely grateful for all the support they received. We too, will be forever grateful," the statement said.

Chan and Sukurmaran's bodies are now in the process of being returned to Australia for burial.
Brazilian man with schizophrenia unaware of what was happening
Catholic nuns pray beside the coffin of Rodrigo Gularte at a funeral home in Jakarta.
Photo: Catholic nuns pray beside the coffin of Rodrigo Gularte at a funeral home in Jakarta. (Reuters)

Father Burrows said Gularte, who was diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, did not understand what was happening to him until his final moments.

Brazil had made repeated personal pleas for Indonesia to commute his sentence on humanitarian grounds, citing his mental illness.

Father Burrows said he thought he had prepared the Brazilian for the execution.

"I thought I'd got him ready, that he was going to be put in chains, because he didn't like being touched ... I said to him, 'well I'm 72, when you get up to heaven you'll know where I'm going to live, prepare a garden or something'," Father Burrows said.

Gularte was calm as he was handcuffed by warders but became agitated when he was handed over to police who put leg chains on him.

"I thought he'd got the message he was to be executed but ... when the chains started to go on, he said to me, 'Oh father, am I being executed?'" the priest said.

Father Burrows, who witnessed the execution of another Brazilian prisoner in January, said Gularte continued to hear voices in his final days telling him everything would be fine.

"He believes the voices more than he does anybody else," he said.

Gularte was caught entering Indonesia in 2004 with six kilograms of cocaine hidden in surf boards, and was sentenced to death in 2005.

The 42-year-old's family presented several doctors' reports to the Indonesian authorities attesting to his mental illness, and Brazilian president Dilma Rousseff had made personal pleas on his behalf.

Ms Rousseff recalled Brazil's ambassador to Jakarta after the first execution in January.
Friends vow to continue fight to abolish death penalty

Friends of Chan and Sukumaran believe the last-minute reprieve granted to fellow death row prisoner Mary Jane Veloso shows Indonesia could have spared the men.

The Mercy Campaign organised vigils and events in Sydney in the run-up to the executions.

Co-founder Brigid Delaney said she and fellow campaigners were devastated that their friends had been executed.

"Obviously it's the worst case scenario for us," Ms Delaney said.

"We saw with Mary Jane Veloso that there was hope.

"It does show that [president] Widodo does have the power, or did have the power, to save all those people, but chose not to."

They are vowing to continue to fight to abolish the death penalty.

"We think the best memorial for the guys will be a continued discussion about the death penalty and more activism and more awareness about stopping the death penalty abroad," Ms Delaney said.

"Andrew said something really beautiful a couple of months before he died which was he wants Mercy to be more than about him and Myuran.

"He wants the message of Mercy to spread throughout the world."


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Friday, May 1, 2015 7:15 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The reason why I bring this up is not because I'm saying "We're terrible" or even "We're just as bad as "they" are".

What I find ... remarkable ... is that in thread after thread, and post after post, Americans look on in wonderment, or fear, or disgust, on what "other people" do when quite often they would find that the USA does exactly the same thing, if only they looked at events objectively.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.




Same here. The inconsistency drives me crazy. The same government who gnashed its teeth (quite rightly) over this, locks up children who are refugees. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/children-in-d
etention-tony-abbott-takes-aim-at-the-messenger-20150212-13csuv.html
And locks up refugees indefinitely in shocking conditions http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-01/opposition-criticise-lack-refuge
e-resettlement-from-manus-island/6437892
. It's the same party who refused to get involved in Indonesian executions when it was the Bali bombers http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-10-10/howard-stands-by-death-penalty-f
or-terrorists/694212
and refused to intervene when an Australian national was held at Guantanamo Bay and subject to torture http://www.smh.com.au/national/guantanamo-bay-foi-reveals-howard-gover
nment-knew-david-hicks-would-not-get-a-fair-trial-20131228-300oy.html
and is implicit in the forced closure of indigenous communities.

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Saturday, May 2, 2015 10:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

One of the men put to death was mentally ill and didn't understand he was to be executed.
Oh, for a moment there I thought you were talking abut Texas! Texans in particular just LOVE to execute the mentally incompetent and the insane!

Yes, I know what you mean about inconsistency. The rightwing is always complaining about something they call "moral relativism", and yet they're its greatest subconscious practitioners.

I despair of people sometimes. How will we ever survive the time when we collectively hit the wall on resource limitations if we can barely scrape together a few rational thoughts? (Rational- to ratio, to compare objectively) People here still think we're going to ravage the earth and then move on to Mars??? That's we're going to make it through with "Every man for himself and god against all"?

Sheesh!

Sorry for the OT rant.



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, May 2, 2015 3:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

One of the men put to death was mentally ill and didn't understand he was to be executed.
Oh, for a moment there I thought you were talking abut Texas! Texans in particular just LOVE to execute the mentally incompetent and the insane!


I thought the claim to fame for Texas death row was forcing the defendant to watch their lawyer sleep during the entire trial, without being allowed to wake up the officer.

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Saturday, May 2, 2015 3:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

That chart looks like the Clinton reign had banner years

Boy, are you dumb. I mean really, flagrantly dumb. Tell me, boy, as governor of Missouri in 1999, how many of those 10 executions did Clinton preside over? And also as governor of Oklahoma in 1999, how many of those 6 executions did Clinton preside over? And as governor of South Carolina in 1999 as well, how many of those 4 executions did Clinton preside over? In addition as governor of Virginia in 1999, how many of those 14 executions did Clinton preside over? I KNOW! In 1999 when he was ALSO governor of Texas how many of those 35 executions did he preside over?


The belief in coincidence is strong with this one.

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Saturday, May 2, 2015 5:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



That chart looks like the Clinton reign had banner years


Well, you claim Clinton was (somehow) associated with that banner year for executions. Meanwhile, if you recall, dumbya was governor of Texas and was personally, directly responsible for over a third of the country's total during his reign of terror in Texas. In 2000, while the national rate dropped the Texas rate rose. And dumbya alone was accountable for half the total in the entire country. Then, when he went to the big house - oh, I mean the White House - the execution rate in Texas dropped from 40 in 2000 to 17 in 2001.

But your mind seems to have skipped off the reality track on that one. Surely, you think, dumbya couldn't have had anything to do with all those executions in Texas while he was governor! It MUST have SOMEthing to do with Clinton, SOMEhow.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, May 2, 2015 5:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


2 of those sentenced to death while W was Gov. of Texas were the guys who auto-lynched James Byrd. The other guy got life in prison, yet the naacp still ran a ridiculous ad featuring the daughter of Mr Byrd, in which she chastised W for not passing hate-crime legislation, which would have done exactly nothing to the men who killed her father.

THey can't execute the scum any more than W's Texas already did, but never doubt some to keep on playing the race card, no matter what.


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Saturday, May 2, 2015 10:03 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
2 of those sentenced to death while W was Gov. of Texas were the guys who auto-lynched James Byrd. The other guy got life in prison, yet the naacp still ran a ridiculous ad featuring the daughter of Mr Byrd, in which she chastised W for not passing hate-crime legislation, which would have done exactly nothing to the men who killed her father.

THey can't execute the scum any more than W's Texas already did, but never doubt some to keep on playing the race card, no matter what.



What else would you expect from the agenda-driven lying racist NAACP?

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 1:48 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You seem to think lynching isn't the murder of someone because of their race. That's crazy.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 8:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

You seem to think lynching isn't the murder of someone because of their race. That's crazy.



Let's deconstruct this sentence, shall we ?

Lynching. It's an action. As described by Wiki -

Lynching is an extrajudicial punishment by an informal group. It is most often used to characterize informal public executions by a mob, often by hanging, in order to punish an alleged transgressor, or to intimidate a minority group. It is an extreme form of informal group social control such as charivari, skimmington, riding the rail, and tarring and feathering, but with a drift toward the public spectacle.[1][2]

First of all, it may not necessarily involve murder. To further quote Wiki...

The origins of the word lynch are obscure, but likely originates during the American revolution. The term originates from the phrase "Lynch Law", a term for a punishment without trial. Two Americans during this era are generally credited for the phrase: Charles Lynch and William Lynch, who both lived in Virginia in the 1780s. Charles Lynch has the better claim, as he was known to have used the term in 1782, while William Lynch isn't known to have used the term until much later. There is no evidence that death was imposed as a punishment by either of the two men.[13]

In the United States, the state of origin of the terms lynching and lynch law is traditionally attributed to a Virginia Quaker named Charles Lynch.[14] Charles Lynch (1736–1796) was a Virginia planter and American Revolutionary who headed a county court in Virginia which incarcerated Loyalist supporters of the British for up to one year during the war. While he lacked proper jurisdiction, he claimed this right by arguing wartime necessity. Subsequently, he prevailed upon his friends in the Congress of the Confederation to pass a law which specifically exonerated him and his associates from wrongdoing. He was concerned that he might face legal action from one or more of those so incarcerated, even though the American Colonies had won the war. This move by the Congress provoked controversy, and it was in connection with this that the term "Lynch law", meaning the assumption of extrajudicial authority, came into common parlance in the United States. Lynch was never accused of racist bias, and indeed acquitted blacks accused of murder on three separate occasions, as dictated by the facts brought before him.[15][16]


So, lynching by it's definition and etymology clearly does NOT mean murder, nor does it refer to punishment purely based on the race of the victim.


And as for what I supposedly think about lynching not being murder because of someone's race... you are correct. I don't think that, because that's not what it is. How is that " crazy " ?

And as for the murder of James Byrd being because of his race, to quote your gal pal Hillary, what difference, at this point, does it make ?

He was brutally murdered. There's no denying that. Two of his killers were put to death, and 1 serves life in prison. You don't get much more punishment than that, so this ASININE and ridiculous concept of a "HATE" crime, really does serve no purpose. What so ever.


1kiki , the only " crazy " here I see is you.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 2:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Historical meaning is not current meaning. CURRENTLY - within the last 170 years or so - according to your source as applicable to blacks it means this:



It is most often used to characterize informal public executions by a mob, often by hanging, in order to punish an alleged transgressor, or to intimidate a minority group.



It would have been nice if you had read your own source and applied its definition. On second thought, naw, that would be 'crazy'.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 2:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, can we move past this meaningless diversion and agree that lynching means what its accepted definition indicates? Rappy, jongsie - any confusion about or disagreement with normal modern English?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 3:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, can we move past this meaningless diversion and agree that lynching means what its accepted definition indicates? Rappy, jongsie - any confusion about or disagreement with normal modern English?




No. The word does NOT mean a narrow, race specific act. Pout and stomp all you want, but you can't arbitrarily change the meanings of words just to get a " win " on some gorram political forum on the internet.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 3:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It is most often used to characterize informal public executions by a mob, often by hanging, in order to punish an alleged transgressor, or to intimidate a minority group.


I didn't say it ONLY meant a racially motivated act. What I posted was this: 'as applicable to blacks'. So, as applicable to blacks - how about you consult your own source? If you have a disagreement with their definition of ordinary modern English - why did you cite it? And if you find you just can't accept the definition - how about you take it up with them?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 4:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, moving along to the topic ...

Apparently execution is only bad if Muslims do it. But in the US it's not a problem. Yes, it's that schizophrenic mind-set we've come to know so well.

Rappy, do you support the death penalty? How about you jongsie? How about you julie? Do you support the death penalty?





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 4:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Kitten, you're making a bigger fool of yourself, if that's even possible, the more you post.

Quit while you're behind. Really, really far behind.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 5:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Are you having a problem with the question?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 5:19 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Go start your own thread, hon. No one cares bout your trolling here.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 5:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You seemed happy enough to state your opinion:

2 of those sentenced to death while W was Gov. of Texas were the guys who auto-lynched James Byrd. The other guy got life in prison, yet the naacp still ran a ridiculous ad featuring the daughter of Mr Byrd, in which she chastised W for not passing hate-crime legislation, which would have done exactly nothing to the men who killed her father.

THey can't execute the scum any more than W's Texas already did, but never doubt some to keep on playing the race card, no matter what.


Are you NOW unwilling to address the topic?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, May 3, 2015 5:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, moving along to the topic ...

Apparently execution is only bad if Muslims do it. But in the US it's not a problem. Yes, it's that schizophrenic mind-set we've come to know so well.

Rappy, do you support the death penalty? How about you jongsie? How about you julie? Do you support the death penalty?

ETA: yanno, if you're tired of looking like idiots and hypocrites you could always stop being them.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, May 4, 2015 12:04 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Rap has to check Fox News first before he can answer. Apparently, you lose your pay check if you differ in opinion.

Here are a whole load of posters who are sheep dressed up in Fox clothing.

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Monday, May 4, 2015 6:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


My view on capital punishment isn't the issue here. I'm for it, of course, under the right circumstances. Drug running isn't one of them.

Where the hell does FOX news come into this discussion ?


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Monday, May 4, 2015 4:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Because you are righteous and they are not ...

... that's a huge case of moral relativism you have.

see additional information:
Would it surprise you to learn that Florida and the federal government both allow execution for drug trafficking?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2015 5:19 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
My view on capital punishment isn't the issue here. I'm for it, of course, under the right circumstances. Drug running isn't one of them.

Where the hell does FOX news come into this discussion ?




Because your world philosophy comes from the extended wit and wisdom of rupert murdoch, a 3 page tome drawn with crayons.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2015 7:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


WTH does that even mean ??

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 6, 2015 8:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
2 of those sentenced to death while W was Gov. of Texas were the guys who auto-lynched James Byrd. The other guy got life in prison, yet the naacp still ran a ridiculous ad featuring the daughter of Mr Byrd, in which she chastised W for not passing hate-crime legislation, which would have done exactly nothing to the men who killed her father.

THey can't execute the scum any more than W's Texas already did, but never doubt some to keep on playing the race card, no matter what.



What else would you expect from the agenda-driven lying racist NAACP?


You mistyped. NAALCP is what you meant. They despise reasonable CP such as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2015 8:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

You seem to think lynching isn't the murder of someone because of their race. That's crazy.


And as for what I supposedly think about lynching not being murder because of someone's race... you are correct. I don't think that, because that's not what it is. How is that " crazy " ?


Stating clear and obvious truth and fact?
That's just crazy talk.
Remember, you are surrounded by racist libtards and they deem that the majority of crazies will decide what is crazy or not. The inmates run this asylum.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2015 11:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And as for what I supposedly think about lynching not being murder because of someone's race... you are correct. I don't think that, because that's not what it is.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... yeah, if I was from the south I'd want to deny that fact too.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, May 7, 2015 7:46 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And as for what I supposedly think about lynching not being murder because of someone's race... you are correct. I don't think that, because that's not what it is.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... yeah, if I was from the south I'd want to deny that fact too.


Now THAT is just crazy talk.

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Friday, May 8, 2015 7:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Libtards must really suck at playing crossword puzzles. I mean, if there's ONLY one definition for every word, then it must be impossible for them to figure out more than a few questions.

But notice the bigotry in them when they get called out for being wrong. 'From the South'... what's that have to do w/ anything ? Prejudice much ?

They are living examples of the things they claim to be against. Too gorram funny.

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Friday, May 8, 2015 10:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yeah, 'cause NOBODY thinks of lynching as a great southern tradition of mob justice, ending in the hanging of nigrahs from the nearest tree. NOBODY thinks of the song "Strange Fruit".



'Cause all of those photos that KIKI found were just abberations from the REAL definition, possibly originated by Charles Lynch, whose portraiture and name are forever and indelibly linked with the word itself. [/sarcasm]

First of all, RAPPY, you took a POSSIBLE WORD ORIGIN, and mixed it up with the current definition. It's a common dodge, when a word means something that you don't want it to mean, but the reality is that many words change their meaning over a couple hundred years, and in current lingo no longer mean what they meant "back then". During the times of the American South, "lynching" meant hanging - whether for blacks or whites. Most commonly, blacks.

Furthermore, even the origin (which you cite) is a weak one. Notice the word obscure, and the fact that two people (not one) are listed as the possible/ likely originators.

Quote:

The origins of the word lynch are obscure, but likely originates during the American revolution. The term originates from the phrase "Lynch Law", a term for a punishment without trial. Two Americans during this era are generally credited for the phrase: Charles Lynch and William Lynch, who both lived in Virginia in the 1780s. Charles Lynch has the better claim, as he was known to have used the term in 1782, while William Lynch isn't known to have used the term until much later. There is no evidence that death was imposed as a punishment by either of the two men.


Nice try, but no joy. The word means what it means.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, May 8, 2015 1:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The word has more than 1 meaning, so fail on your part Sig.

You not liking the truth doesn't make it " weak ".

Also, TODAY, which part of the USA is most racist ?

Hint: it's not the South.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, May 8, 2015 3:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



verb (used with object)
1. to put to death, especially by hanging, by mob action and without legal authority.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lynch

Full Definition of LYNCH: transitive verb
: to put to death (as by hanging) by mob action without legal sanction
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lynch

verb [T] us /l?nt?/
› (of a group of people) to kill someone who has not been found guilty of a crime at a legal trial, esp. by hanging (= killed using a rope around the neck)
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/lynch

Definition of lynch in English:
verb [with object] (Of a mob) kill (someone), especially by hanging, for an alleged offense with or without a legal trial.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/lynch


To execute without due process of law, especially to hang, as by a mob.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Lynch

Hmm... I've looked at the Oxford, Cambridge, Merrian-Webster, online reference, and urban dictionaries, and ALL of them give ONLY ONE MEANING. And I suspect that if I were to look at the next half-dozen dictionaries, the result would be the same.

It means what it means, dude.

Sigh.

You've confused word origin with word definition. Also demonstrated that you not only don't know how to use a dictionary, you seem incapable of learning the most basic of facts if it contradicts your world view. Also, not worth talking to, because you don't know how to discuss things.



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, May 8, 2015 4:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Libtards must really suck at playing crossword puzzles. I mean, if there's ONLY one definition for every word, then it must be impossible for them to figure out more than a few questions.

But notice the bigotry in them when they get called out for being wrong. 'From the South'... what's that have to do w/ anything ? Prejudice much ?

They are living examples of the things they claim to be against. Too gorram funny.


When they say "from the south" they mean "are Democrats" because those racists were the ones lynching and enslaving blacks, and stopping Republicans from freeing, liberating the slaves or enacting voting rights for them.

Get to progressive, freedom, rights, liberty, conservative, and they think the definition is opposite of reality.

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