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Washington: The Central Intelligence Agency took top al-Qaeda suspects close "to the point of death" by drowning them in water-filled baths during interrogation sessions in the years that followed the September 11 attacks, far beyond the waterboarding details so far revealed, according to an intelligence source.

The description of the torture meted out to at least two leading al-Qaeda suspects, including the alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, far exceeds the conventional understanding of waterboarding, or "simulated drowning" so far admitted by the CIA.

"They weren't just pouring water over their heads or over a cloth," said the source who has first-hand knowledge of the period. "They were holding them under water until the point of death, with a doctor present to make sure they did not go too far. This was real torture."
The alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, shortly after his capture (left) and (right) Mohammed in 2009 in Guantanamo Bay.

e account of extreme CIA interrogation comes as the US Senate prepares to publish a declassified version of its so-called "torture report", a 3600-page document based on a review of several million classified CIA documents.

Publication of the report is currently being held up by a dispute over how much of the 480-page public summary should remain classified, but it is expected to be published within weeks.

A second source who is familiar with the Senate report said that it contained several unflinching accounts of some CIA interrogations which, the source predicted, would "deeply shock" the general public.
Alleged USS Cole bomber Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.

Alleged USS Cole bomber Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri. Photo: AP

Dianne Feinstein, the Democrat chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee that wrote the report has promised that it will expose "brutality that stands in stark contrast to our values as a nation". The Senate report is understood to accuse the CIA of lying and of grossly exaggerating the usefulness of torture.

Its publication being angrily opposed by many senior Republicans, former CIA operatives and Bush-era officials, including the former US vice-president Dick Cheney, who argue that is it poorly researched and politically motivated.

The CIA has previously admitted that it used "black sites" to subject at least three high-value al-Qaeda detainees to "enhanced interrogation": namely Mohammed, the alleged USS Cole bomber Abd al Rahim al Nashiri and alleged senior Bin Laden aide Abu Zubaydah. An internal report in 2004 by the CIA's own Office of Inspector General admitted that Mohammed had been "waterboarded" 183 times and Abu Zubaydah 83 times - but actual details of how the interrogations were administered have never been provided. When the 109-page CIA report was made public in 2009 following a freedom of information lawsuit, large portions of it remained redacted - or blacked out - including all 23 pages that followed the factual admission that interrogators "applied the waterboard technique" to Mohammed.
Al-Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, waterboarded 83 times.

Al-Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, waterboarded 83 times.

Among the additional difficulties for investigators seeking the truth about what happened is the fact that in November 2005 the CIA destroyed about 92 video tapes of its waterboarding and interrogation of Mohammed and the others. The White House and the State Department fear that the Senate report could still cause a backlash and have made preparations for increased security at sensitive sites when it is published.

Despite the destruction of video evidence, ha third source familiar with the still-classified accounts of the most severe of the CIA interrogations, said that the practices were much more brutal than is widely understood.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Er, no wrong as wrong can be.

If you use these tactics, you are nothing more than powerful, wealthy terrorists yourselves.

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When Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi walked away from a U.S. detention camp in 2009, the future leader of ISIS issued some chilling final words to reservists from Long Island.

The Islamist extremist some are now calling the most dangerous man in the world had a few parting words to his captors as he was released from the biggest U.S. detention camp in Iraq in 2009.

“He said, ‘I’ll see you guys in New York,’” recalls Army Col. Kenneth King, then the commanding officer of Camp Bucca.

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The transcripts, which are stamped "draft" and compiled from 70 tapes recorded secretly during the last two years by Mr. Salem, were turned over to defense lawyers in the second bombing case by the Government on Tuesday under a judge's order barring lawyers from disseminating them. A large portion of the material was made available to The New York Times.

In a letter to Federal Judge Michael B. Mukasey, Andrew C. McCarthy, an assistant United States attorney, said that he had learned of the tapes while debriefing Mr. Salem and that the informer had then voluntarily turned them over. Other Salem tapes and transcripts were being withheld pending Government review, of "security and other issues," Mr. McCarthy said.

William M. Kunstler, a defense lawyer in the case, accused the Government this week of improper delay in handing over all the material. The transcripts he had seen, he said, "were filled with all sorts of Government misconduct." But citing the judge's order, he said he could not provide any details.

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Time and again, the FBI concocts a Terrorist attack, infiltrates Muslim communities in order to find recruits, persuades them to perpetrate the attack, supplies them with the money, weapons and know-how they need to carry it out — only to heroically jump in at the last moment, arrest the would-be perpetrators whom the FBI converted, and save a grateful nation from the plot manufactured by the FBI.

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But all these dramas were facilitated by the F.B.I., whose undercover agents and informers posed as terrorists offering a dummy missile, fake C-4 explosives, a disarmed suicide vest and rudimentary training. Suspects naïvely played their parts until they were arrested.

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As the FBI continues its perfect streak of successfully thwarting every terrorist plan it has conceived and put in motion itself (a few of which have been covered here), details of an unintentionally hilarious (and particularly horrendous) "terrorist plot" conjured up back in 2006 have emerged, thanks to an NPR expose and a lawsuit filed against the FBI by some of the unwilling participants.

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The details are familiar: random guy with no actual connection to terrorists, and no actual way to build a connection with terrorists, is taken in by an FBI undercover agent who works with him to build a "bomb" that was never a bomb. In other words, there was no plot. There was no bomb. There was just a bunch of undercover agents playing dressup, and one Joe Schmo who thought it was all real. Maybe next time, the FBI can turn it into a reality TV show on Spike. Ralph Garmin as... a fake terrorist. I'd watch it.

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The FBI's string of thwarted, self-created terrorist plots continues unabated. Why look for terrorists when you can just craft them yourselves?

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Do people who condone/ commit terrorism also disgust you?

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Select to view spoiler:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Do people who condone/ commit terrorism also disgust you?

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Terrorism is the aim of making ordinary non-combatants afraid, in order to meet some political

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Do people who condone/ commit terrorism also disgust you?

Because it sounds as if you have a bigger problem with those who try to defeat terrorists than the terrorists themselves.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Do people who condone/ commit terrorism also disgust you?

Because it sounds as if you have a bigger problem with those who try to defeat terrorists than the terrorists themselves.

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i don't condone ANY violence, you low life piece of scum

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Do people who condone/ commit terrorism also disgust you?

Because it sounds as if you have a bigger problem with those who try to defeat terrorists than the terrorists themselves.

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i don't condone ANY violence, you low life piece of scum

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Here's a thought, the world aint like a western and John Wayne isn't going to ride over the horizon.

Violence begets violence. self defence, or defence is too often used as an excuse, particularly accordinly to US laws.

Hopefully countries can learn to choose a more enlightened approach to conflict.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Here's a thought, the world aint like a western and John Wayne isn't going to ride over the horizon.

Violence begets violence. self defence, or defence is too often used as an excuse, particularly accordinly to US laws.

Hopefully countries can learn to choose a more enlightened approach to conflict.

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Only it was like a John Wayne Western, and that's exactly what the US did, during WW2. Riding in from the West, to save the day and beat back NAZI Germany ( and then Japan ) with violence that ended violence.

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EXCUSE ME! The Yanks couldn't hold any of the beaches they landed on during DDAY. You want to know which soldiers did. CANADIANS. We also got the farthest inland on that day too. So leave the John Wayne bunk in your locker about WW2.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Here's a thought, the world aint like a western and John Wayne isn't going to ride over the horizon.

Violence begets violence. self defence, or defence is too often used as an excuse, particularly accordinly to US laws.

Hopefully countries can learn to choose a more enlightened approach to conflict.

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Only it was like a John Wayne Western, and that's exactly what the US did, during WW2. Riding in from the West, to save the day and beat back NAZI Germany ( and then Japan ) with violence that ended violence.

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EXCUSE ME! The Yanks couldn't hold any of the beaches they landed on during DDAY. You want to know which soldiers did. CANADIANS. We also got the farthest inland on that day too. So leave the John Wayne bunk in your locker about WW2.

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Are you trying to say that Canadians exercised violence? In defense of the occupied peoples of Yurp?

That's just crazy talk.

Are you evil?

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That is exactly what I am saying. That's where we gained part of our reputation for helping others. Canada was instrumental in liberating Holland from the Nazis.

It ain't crazy talk.

No. It was a just cause. 'sides, when Hitler was finished with Europe, he would have set his sights on North America.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
EXCUSE ME! The Yanks couldn't hold any of the beaches they landed on during DDAY. You want to know which soldiers did. CANADIANS. We also got the farthest inland on that day too. So leave the John Wayne bunk in your locker about WW2.

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Are you trying to say that Canadians exercised violence? In defense of the occupied peoples of Yurp?

That's just crazy talk.

Are you evil?

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That is exactly what I am saying. That's where we gained part of our reputation for helping others. Canada was instrumental in liberating Holland from the Nazis.

It ain't crazy talk.

No. It was a just cause. 'sides, when Hitler was finished with Europe, he would have set his sights on North America.

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But but but. Canadians. Violence. In the same sentence. Aren't you supposed to meet in the middle?
Could you be thrown in jail for claiming Canadians can exercise violence?

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We do meet in the middle which is why Canada has had peacekeepers on the island of Cyprus since 1964. To keep both sides from destroying the island.

No, I can't.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:
EXCUSE ME! The Yanks couldn't hold any of the beaches they landed on during DDAY. You want to know which soldiers did. CANADIANS. We also got the farthest inland on that day too. So leave the John Wayne bunk in your locker about WW2.

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Are you trying to say that Canadians exercised violence? In defense of the occupied peoples of Yurp?

That's just crazy talk.

Are you evil?

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That is exactly what I am saying. That's where we gained part of our reputation for helping others. Canada was instrumental in liberating Holland from the Nazis.

It ain't crazy talk.

No. It was a just cause. 'sides, when Hitler was finished with Europe, he would have set his sights on North America.

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But but but. Canadians. Violence. In the same sentence. Aren't you supposed to meet in the middle?
Could you be thrown in jail for claiming Canadians can exercise violence?

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We do meet in the middle which is why Canada has had peacekeepers on the island of Cyprus since 1964. To keep both sides from destroying the island.

No, I can't.

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I really, really do hope that your sarcasm detector has been working lately.
It is hard for me to fun Canadians when my favorite films include Canadian Bacon, and shows include Due South. One of my fave friends in the Marine Corps was from Summerland, BC.

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Don't worry Jewel it is. :) Loved, loved Due South. Never seen Canadian Bacon but heard of it. I tried watching Strange Brew but couldn't get into it though I love the MacKenzie Brothers. *L* Never been to Summerland but heard its pretty there.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
You could be right Magon. I just get a little riled up when I hear Americans taking credit for everything in WWI and WW2.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Here's a thought, the world aint like a western and John Wayne isn't going to ride over the horizon.

Violence begets violence. self defence, or defence is too often used as an excuse, particularly accordinly to US laws.

Hopefully countries can learn to choose a more enlightened approach to conflict.

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