REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Another Unarmed Black Teen Killed

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Thursday, July 18, 2024 16:42
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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:05 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
[

Frem's Counter current News ( CCN ) isn't a typo for CNN.

Try to keep up.



And since you KNEW that, you ask who the hell they are? Oh, you were just being a wise ass. I'm caught up now.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:44 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


NOBC

What happened with the cigars may have been the altercation that prompted a customer to call 911. And if the store person threw them at the two young men then he would have been guilty of assault. That makes it understandable that he didn't call the police.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:46 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


AH, found it. Another version of the story that never stops changing, this one from Aug 15, and USAToday, the paragon of quality journalism.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/usanow/2014/08/15/ferguson-missouri
-police-michael-brown-shooting/14098369
/

Chief: Officer noticed Brown carrying suspected stolen cigars


Yamiche Alcindor, Marisol Bello and Aamer Madhani, USA TODAY 9:50 p.m. EDT August 15, 2014

Quote:


FERGUSON, Mo. — Michael Brown was identified as a suspect in a strong-arm robbery of a box of cigars moments before he was shot to death by Officer Darren Wilson, police said Friday.

In an afternoon press conference, Ferguson, Mo. Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Wilson did not initially make a connection between the robbery and Brown,whose death spurred violent protests and unrest in the St. Louis suburb over the past week.

Wilson stopped Brown and a friend because "they were in the middle of the street, blocking traffic," Jackson said.

Hours later, however, Jackson told a slightly different story to CNN and NBC, saying that Wilson noticed Brown was carrying a box of cigars that had been reported stolen. Wilson, he said, initially stopped Brown for blocking traffic, but as he began driving past Brown, he noticed Brown was holding cigars.

At that point, Wilson "made the connection" that Brown might have been involved in a theft that had just been broadcast on police radio, Jackson said.

Jackson earlier released Wilson's name along with information that Brown was a suspect in the previous robbery. He said he released surveillance video tape and documents related to the robbery to satisfy freedom of information requests from the public.


His decision to release both bits of information at the same time has come under fire by residents and Brown supporters who said the police were trying to divert attention away from Wilson and justify the shooting by blaming Brown.

Jackson would not say why he released the information when he did the way he did, other than to say he was responding to freedom of information requests from the public about the robbery.

Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Brown's family, told USA TODAY the release of the officer's name alongside a robbery report naming Brown as a suspect "smoke and mirrors."

"There was nothing based on the facts that have been placed before us that would justify this execution style murder by this police officer in broad daylight," Crump said. "It's not enough that they assassinated him in broad daylight in the middle of the street. They also have to assassinate his character to try to get away with it."

He said police were trying to divert the public's attention from the crux of the issue. He added that police only releasing photos of the robbery suspect and not Wilson shows that the department will not be transparent.

He said Brown's family believes the police strategically waited to release the officer's name to justify the fatal shooting.



This was 5 days ago, before the chief denied that Mike Brown was a suspect.
Seems that, miraculously, the police report came over the radio in the few seconds between when the stopped the 2 guys walking in the street, "blocking traffic", and when Brown attacked.

I'm sure Ferguson tapes its police dept radio traffic, so can provide a tape of the broadcast, with time stamp.

E-T-A, I forgot this point: And I'm sure Ferguson's records are so good that it's right there on the incident report, right after the part where it says, " Officer shot a member of the black community, several times," , it says " Inventory of evidence on the corpse, 1 box of cigars, value $50, " Or it will, if they ever release the complete original document, the one that's part of the public, legal record. Or if not, maybe somebody can get it via the Freedom of Information ACT, like they did the officer's name, and the video tape. 'Course that may be 40 or 50 years from now.

And it sure was sharp of the cop ( Wilson, is that his name? Ferguson PD has got me not using his name , for his own safety.) to make that connection to the 2 jaywalkers, in those seconds. He might be the smartest member of the force, considering how dumb some of the other things they have done are.

Nice job, RAP, of backing up your sources. You might be the laziest, most shiftless WHITE person I know.

E-T-A: Oops, sorry, that was JSF, your sock puppet. I apologize , Rap, but you know how you all look alike to me.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:13 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I'm sure Ferguson tapes its police dept radio traffic, so can provide a tape of the broadcast, with time stamp.


Some of it at the dispatch end has already been released, via Anonymous.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/anonymous-releases-st-loui
s-police-dispatch-tapes


The officer in question didn't even inform his own superiors of the events initially and they had to hear about it from the freakin news, mind you.

-F

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:30 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I'm sure Ferguson tapes its police dept radio traffic, so can provide a tape of the broadcast, with time stamp.


Some of it at the dispatch end has already been released, via Anonymous.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/anonymous-releases-st-loui
s-police-dispatch-tapes


The officer in question didn't even inform his own superiors of the events initially and they had to hear about it from the freakin news, mind you.

-F



thanx for that first bit. I knew about that second part from that link of yours about the dumbest chief in the USA. Thanx for that also, BTW. I enjoyed reading it, great for laughs.

And what kind of PD anywhere in the USA does an officer KILL someone, and not radio it it to HQ anyway? Besides Ferguson...

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:34 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

2 points, not necessarily arguin' with you :

Missouri opinion was divided about black slavery, which lead to some very colorful history during the Civil War. To this very day Missourians are still having divided opinions about blacks, which is leading to some more colorful history in Ferguson. There are a lot of opinions on this website that express too much certainty about who is guilty of what crime, but there are some more factoids that I do know are true:

Ferguson’s elected officials are of a much different racial makeup than its population. In 2001, Ferguson was a majority African American city with zero African Americans on the city council. Ferguson has gained one African American city council member since then (17 percent of the council), but its African American population has increased to 67 percent. – http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/08/19/why-is-fergusons-government-
so-white
/

All white juries are 16% more likely to convict black defendants than white defendants but the presence of just a single black person in the jury pool equalizes conviction rates by race. The effect is large and remarkably it occurs even when the black person is not picked for the jury. The latter may not seem possible but the authors develop an elegant model of voir dire that shows how using up a veto on a black member of the pool shifts the characteristics of remaining pool members from which the lawyers must pick; that is, a diverse jury pool can make for a more “ideologically” balanced jury even when the jury is not racially balanced. –- http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/08/the-impact-of
-jury-race-in-criminal-trials.html


I hope there is a trial for Policeman Darren Wilson. If a grand jury no bills Wilson, there will be plenty of awful Missouri history made.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Ut oh...

'more than a dozen people have backed up Ferguson officer's story'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2728772/Second-friend-cop-shot
-dead-Michael-Brown-comes-defense-say-s-quiet-respectful-guy.html



Hey NOBC !!! Does this count ?

I know it's not exactly what I was posting , but the fact that the story is being backed up by MULTIPLE witnesses leads credence to my prior post.

Brown was the aggressor, and the cop acted in self defense.

That's not ME saying that, but the story from many who claim they saw it, and the story ( allegedly ) that the cop himself has given.


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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:25 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

….Two
Ferguson’s elected officials are of a much different racial makeup than its population. In 2001, Ferguson was a majority African American city with zero African Americans on the city council. Ferguson has gained one African American city council member since then (17 percent of the council), but its African American population has increased to 67 percent. – http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/08/19/why-is-fergusons-government-



Yes this is true and why people who rely on statistics alone are misguided. They look at those and shout prof, prof. I keep hearing this fact used to point to another (o so obvious) injustice perpetrated by whites on the African American community. Something Al Sharpton said while addressing the people of Ferguson tells the truth of why that is. 12% of Fergusons eligible black voters actually vote. 12%, how the hell are you going to get the job if you don’t apply? How are you going to improve your station in life if you do not show up? It takes and effort to effect change and this is what needs to change. Sharpton recognizes this today and has changed his approach in these situations. He is beginning to point out some of the community’s culpability. This is what’s needed. Not the lefts continued excuse making for the behaviors within black communities.

I have been sitting back watching as all the jump to conclusions posters have shown their lack of depth and their inability to sort through the hype. I even noticed where 1kiki turned the store incident with the kid stealing the cigars into a, maybe it is the store owners fault. Implying it may be because the store owner threw the cigars at the two kids that he did not call 911.

Quote:

….Two
I hope there is a trial for Policeman Darren Wilson. If a grand jury no bills Wilson, there will be plenty of awful Missouri history made.



There probably will be a trial but I am not sure. I will tell you that I keep hearing of a cover up. That they won’t release the facts of the shootings. If a good and true investigation is being conducted you will not see the facts released as they are discovered. The reason for this is because the physical facts left behind by the incident are compared to the eye witness statements. They do this to establish the credibility of the witness. If they make public the physical evidence as it is determined, the witnesses will start mimicking what they read in the press or heard reported.

As I said earlier, I would not trust what the witnesses said because of their affiliation with the community and its established grievances against the police department as a whole. We need the facts to bear them out first.



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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:41 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

All white juries are 16% more likely to convict black defendants than white defendants but the presence of just a single black person in the jury pool equalizes conviction rates by race. The effect is large and remarkably it occurs even when the black person is not picked for the jury. The latter may not seem possible but the authors develop an elegant model of voir dire that shows how using up a veto on a black member of the pool shifts the characteristics of remaining pool members from which the lawyers must pick; that is, a diverse jury pool can make for a more “ideologically” balanced jury even when the jury is not racially balanced. –- http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/08/the-impact-of
-jury-race-in-criminal-trials.html




FAR out! Every day I learn something, and I'm an old fart. Never seen or heard that one before, but it surely makes sense. I can see the whole mechanism clearly in my mind. Thanx for today's lesson.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/hedy-epstein-arrested-ferguso
n-holocaust-_n_5689822.html



About as easy a collar as the cops could hope for.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:09 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Something Al Sharpton said while addressing the people of Ferguson tells the truth of why that is. 12% of Ferguson's eligible black voters actually vote. 12%, how the hell are you going to get the job if you don’t apply? How are you going to improve your station in life if you do not show up? It takes and effort to effect change and this is what needs to change. Sharpton recognizes this today and has changed his approach in these situations. He is beginning to point out some of the community’s culpability. This is what’s needed. Not the lefts continued excuse making for the behaviors within black communities.

There are two articles explaining how the blacks are getting cheated in Ferguson:

Police are operating with total impunity in Ferguson
www.vox.com/2014/8/19/6043483/ferguson-police-impunity
White political domination of Ferguson is doomed
www.vox.com/2014/8/18/6029141/why-ferguson-government-is-so-white

If all the blacks in Ferguson can stay focused for years, and vote in every municipal election, then good can come out of this. But if not, then not.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



The official narrative is unraveling faster and faster...

BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack

The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from two local St. Louis sources that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting death of Brown. This was after Michael Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson robbed a local Ferguson convenience store.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wils
on-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown
/




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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 6:01 PM

THGRRI


I don't know how much I trust that source Rap? Yet I hope it is accurate and the witnesses are more relievable than it appears the others have been. What they claim also has to be born out by the physical evidence.


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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 6:30 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Something Al Sharpton said while addressing the people of Ferguson tells the truth of why that is. 12% of Ferguson's eligible black voters actually vote. 12%, how the hell are you going to get the job if you don’t apply? How are you going to improve your station in life if you do not show up? It takes and effort to effect change and this is what needs to change. Sharpton recognizes this today and has changed his approach in these situations. He is beginning to point out some of the community’s culpability. This is what’s needed. Not the lefts continued excuse making for the behaviors within black communities.

There are two articles explaining how the blacks are getting cheated in Ferguson:

Police are operating with total impunity in Ferguson
www.vox.com/2014/8/19/6043483/ferguson-police-impunity
White political domination of Ferguson is doomed
www.vox.com/2014/8/18/6029141/why-ferguson-government-is-so-white

If all the blacks in Ferguson can stay focused for years, and vote in every municipal election, then good can come out of this. But if not, then not.



I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority. What I am saying is that the press know exactly how to go about getting themselves arrested. The first of the reporters arrested was filming his encounter with the police in a fast food place. Swat came in and asked everyone to leave they were shutting the place down.

What he did was so obvious it was an are you kidding me moment. While he had a laptop to pack he keep filming with his phone so he had to Pack up with one hand. While he was stumbling about he was saying please officer, don't tell me I can't film this I am within my rights to film this. Please officer, why do we have to leave. Please officer, what door do you want me to go out. Please Officer, can I go to my car.

All the moron had to do was pick up and leave. He chose to do this instead. Don't care what others say, I saw what he filmed myself. The black officer who has been all over the news is complaining the press are stimulating some of what is happening by what they are doing.


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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

officer recognized stolen items after stopping the kid.



saw The Rap mention that one.

Haven't seen that item ANYWHERE ELSE, and I've been looking for it. I'd REALLY like to verify that. Don't suppose you have a source for that item of "anecdotal evidence? And how does that square with the PD Chief himself saying that the officer did not know about the reported crime at the liquor store?

Did this cop just get an ESP flash--"Hey, those cigars look just like the ones in the crime report I'm gonna get in a few minutes." Temporal telekinesis, a new police tool...?


Not sure if your logic and curiosity have been satisfied since this post, or not.

I think I heard this on one of the following radio shows: Mark Levin or Dennis Miller (the previous evening) or Sean Hannity Show just prior to posting that reply. Sean has a website and a show on FNC as well, I think.

What I had understood was this:
The cop did not connect the black thug with the store theft at first, possibly because the shoplifting, having just taken place, had not been broadcast yet.
At some point during the incident, the cop either realized the thug had expensive cigars, or heard the broadcast of the recent shoplifting in the neighborhood, and noted the connection with the cigars in the hands of the thug.... er, um, unarmed teenage thug.

The Chief or whomever, stated the first part of the above, specifically in reference to a FOI request, which is usually handled (at the direction of some lawyer, like a Prosecuting Attorney) in the most non-effusive way, so as not to reveal too much of the case. The part about the non-connection was accurate AT THE BEGINNING of the interaction, but the Chief did not elaborate about the ensuing developments.

I'm not trying to confuse anything, but that was the way I recall what I had heard. Does that make sense to you?

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:08 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Stranger still is the silence from Jesse & Al at all the black on black violence.

Logical fallacy try to find which one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies Maybe you can redeem yourself by learning a little logic.
1kiki - Wrong thread.
*snicker*


Hey, don't be upset because you can't draw a logical connection between the topic and your comment. It just means you need to learn from your mistake. With practice even you could get better. So, chin up and remember this: It's never the wrong thread in which to learn your very first lesson in logic.






Are you psychotic? Posting about the failure of Obamacare in this thread, then when it is pointed out that you erred, you just pretend that you didn't really post in the wrong thread?
I understand that as a libtard the ability to rewrite history is key, and to constantly deny facts and truth, but get with the program here.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Logical fallacy

try to find which one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

You and the other right whingers failed miserably at simple counting. Worse, when you were TOLD the numbers in the news, you failed to notice the glaringly discrepant graphic, cause, yanno, it showed what a miserable failure Obamacare was and that's all you wanted to know. That hit your gloat with a satisfying plop. And you literally couldn't see the facts.

But that's all in the past. Maybe you can redeem yourself by learning a little logic.





Posted Aug 14 12:33am (in my time zone) in this thread.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's not character assassination when you report the facts. It just isn't.


That's just crazy talk.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
The VERY latest from CNN.com:
Quote:





Ferguson police chief: Officer didn't stop Brown as robbery suspect
By Greg Botelho, Michael Pearson and Ana Cabrera, CNN
August 15, 2014 -- Updated 2059 GMT (0459 HKT)



http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html
?hpt=hp_t1


Let's tell it both ways, shall we? Maybe see what sticks.

With Raptard, of course, it's already settled: The kid was absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt, Guilty;


You ever look in the mirror?
With NOBC, or course, it's already settled: the unarmed, compliant, unassuming, law-abiding, non-drugged, innocent, non-thieving, meek, running away child was absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt, Innocent.

No need to confuse the issue with facts, those darn inconvenient things.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Change is hard and it means getting up off your knees.
This is like that self-help pablum that they smear on the sick.

What poor neighborhoods need is JOBS. Poor neighborhoods are not about to re-create an entire economy in miniature, independent from the economy that they're embedded in.

So what the militarized police do... what their REAL function is... is to keep the poor folk bottled up in option-less situations in their poor neighborhoods so that wealthy folk can continue to enjoy their safe and comfortable lives.


No, instead of the militarized police, that is the job of the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, NAACP. Just ask Trader Joe's. They must keep their fellow blacks subjugated and penned in the poor neighborhoods to maintain their lifestyle of wealth from race-baiting. This is why they insist upon keeping the jobs out of the areas, and looting, rioting, and burning any business (AKA employer) that dares to defy them.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Similar assessment to the whole Zimmerman/Martin issue.

-Frem


Really? You mean the kid was high on weed? Carrying burglary tools? attempting to kill an armed non-black person? (OK, I'll give you that one for now, as well as possessing stolen property) Habitual repetitive criminal delinquent?
Just like Trevon Martin?
I had not yet heard all those facts come out.


OK, you got me.
At that point in time, the facts of Michael Brown also being a habitual criminal, also high on weed, also an enormous thug, just like Trevon Martin, had not come out yet - clearly your sources were better than the rest of us. With the other admitted similarities of both of them trying to assault or kill an armed non-black person, and possessing freshly stolen property, it does appear to have a great many similarities between Trevon Martin and Michael Brown.

Wait a minute - why have we not seen pictures of Michael Brown from 5 years ago when he was an adorable 100-pound cute dreamy punk, just like we got with Trevon?

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And meanwhile, according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime, violent crime, over all by % than any other group.

Everyone just LOVES to talk about how badly blacks are treated by the cops, but no one wants to deal w/ the elephant in the room, that blacks commit far more than " their fair share " of crime in the first place.

Cause and effect, hon.

I know that blacks are arrested and charged with more crimes, I'm not sure that they actually commit more.



When the policing is color-blind, I'll look at the stats, but right now they're tainted.


OH, come on.
This may be true in your local neighborhood, but I see as a matter of routine when the cops regularly nickel and dime every white person they can find making piddly violations of ordinance, while wholesale active blindly allowing black perpetrators to run rampant. Expecting minorities to behave, obey the law, or pay fines or show up for court appearances is not worth all the lawsuits and pre-emptory settlements they have to deal with. (it seems asians in respectable cars don't have this problem)
This is also why so many assumed Obamination would violate every law he could read, and thus were all proven right.

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:



It's those several million bad cops that really make the other seven look bad.



Cite ?


Quote of the week.

Thanks for that.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 10:16 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ut oh...

'more than a dozen people have backed up Ferguson officer's story'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2728772/Second-friend-cop-shot
-dead-Michael-Brown-comes-defense-say-s-quiet-respectful-guy.html



Hey NOBC !!! Does this count ?

I know it's not exactly what I was posting , but the fact that the story is being backed up by MULTIPLE witnesses leads credence to my prior post.

Brown was the aggressor, and the cop acted in self defense.

That's not ME saying that, but the story from many who claim they saw it, and the story ( allegedly ) that the cop himself has given.




Well, haven't looked at your link, so I can't say what's in it, BUT, yep it backs his story. Almost exactly as much as the bunch of witnesses that back Mike Brown's side, the ones that YOU keep rejecting.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 10:31 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:


Yes this is true and why people who rely on statistics alone are misguided. They look at those and shout prof, prof.






Ah, yes, those poor misguided people. They read those facts and hallucinate that they're in college somewhere. So they raise their hand and start trying to get the attention of the professor.


Learn to spell, dumbass. Turn your spell checker on. Learn to proof-read your stuff. Errors like that make you look EVEN MORE ignorant.





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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 10:48 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by second:


If all the blacks in Ferguson can stay focused for years, and vote in every municipal election, then good can come out of this. But if not, then not.



I find if contradictory, not of you, Second, but in general, that only 12% of eligible black voters actually vote, but that white Republicans are so worried about someone in that 12 % committing voter fraud that they pass voter I.D laws, which die-enfranchise even more poor people, over a problem for which there seems to be very little evidence.

Also that the legislators elected by those who do vote continue to gerrymander the districts so as to dilute the power of any voter bloc except white Republicans.

Also that every time there's a voter registration drive, it's Dems operating it and Republicans opposing it.

Also that the US Supreme Court declared the Voting Rights Act unconstitutional, and unnecessary, because racism no longer is a problem in America.

Maybe so many black voters are so discouraged about voting in a system so stacked against them that they're GUARANTEED to lose, that they stopped participating.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:07 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

officer recognized stolen items after stopping the kid.



saw The Rap mention that one.

Haven't seen that item ANYWHERE ELSE, and I've been looking for it. I'd REALLY like to verify that. Don't suppose you have a source for that item of "anecdotal evidence? And how does that square with the PD Chief himself saying that the officer did not know about the reported crime at the liquor store?

Did this cop just get an ESP flash--"Hey, those cigars look just like the ones in the crime report I'm gonna get in a few minutes." Temporal telekinesis, a new police tool...?


Not sure if your logic and curiosity have been satisfied since this post, or not.

I think I heard this on one of the following radio shows: Mark Levin or Dennis Miller (the previous evening) or Sean Hannity Show just prior to posting that reply. Sean has a website and a show on FNC as well, I think.

What I had understood was this:
The cop did not connect the black thug with the store theft at first, possibly because the shoplifting, having just taken place, had not been broadcast yet.
At some point during the incident, the cop either realized the thug had expensive cigars, or heard the broadcast of the recent shoplifting in the neighborhood, and noted the connection with the cigars in the hands of the thug.... er, um, unarmed teenage thug.

The Chief or whomever, stated the first part of the above, specifically in reference to a FOI request, which is usually handled (at the direction of some lawyer, like a Prosecuting Attorney) in the most non-effusive way, so as not to reveal too much of the case. The part about the non-connection was accurate AT THE BEGINNING of the interaction, but the Chief did not elaborate about the ensuing developments.

I'm not trying to confuse anything, but that was the way I recall what I had heard. Does that make sense to you?




You MAY NOTE, if you read it, that I found and posted a documented source for YOUR " anecdotal " story on Aug 19 at 10:46 AM.

Glad to know that you get your news from Sean Hannity, Dennis Miller, and Mark Levin, ( all EXTREMELY reliable, totally objective journalists-- NOT!.)by listening to it on the radio, rather than by READING it.

The greatest virtue to WRITTEN journalism, on paper or even online, is that it CAN record a journalist's statements in a manner that can be re-accessed later, accurately, for validation or correction. Instead of being "anecdotal" As in, " I heard it on the radio somewhere, sometime, by ONE of these guys. "

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:28 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:


I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority. What I am saying is that the press know exactly how to go about getting themselves arrested.

for accuracy, I snipped some here. Irrelevant stuff-- NOBC

What he did was so obvious it was an are you kidding me moment.




And these professional police officers aren't trained to recognize provocation by people they encounter? Especially obvious provocation? And aren't trained in how to deal with unco-operative citizens who are asserting their own personal constitutional rights? And aren't taught the legal limits on their (police officers') power and authority?

Oh, yeah, I forgot-- this IS in Ferguson Missouri. They are taught how to do that stuff down there... Beat 'em with your nightstick. Gas 'em. SHOOT 'em. Handcuff 'em and arrest 'em, and then haul 'em to the station. Where their superiors, who ARE BETTER trained, dismiss the charges and let 'em go, because they know about the court rulings that say that police officers DON'T have the right to do that. And because the superiors know about the lawsuits that will be filed, and won, and upheld, because those are settled matters of legal precedent; and know about how much those lawsuits WILL COST, in fighting , and after they're lost, in settlement payouts.



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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:37 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/hedy-epstein-arrested-ferguso
n-holocaust-_n_5689822.html



About as easy a collar as the cops could hope for.



Yep, saw a picture of this. 2 beefy looking young local policewomen handling this 80 year old woman by the elbows because they've got her hands secured behind her back.

I'm sure the policewomen were in fear of their lives. The little old lady might have been a terrorist. I'm surprised they weren't wearing helmets and body armor, and didn't have their weapons drawn for protection against this "threat".

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:42 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
get with the program here.



"Ya, zat's right! Follow ze orders given by der Fuhrer JSF here. Ve haf vays uf dealing vith people like YOU."

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:44 AM

THGRRI


BCoat

You’re kidding right, you're concerned I misspelled a word? Stay on track. There are two competing realities here. Part of the problem in dealing with this type of situation, is separating out how people perceive it. The African American community see four hundred years of oppression behind each of these type incidents. They are left feeling as though they do not matter to the country as a whole. To them the cop was guilty before he fired his gun.

The other side, or reality of the situation are the facts of the case. This cop may have been justified in feeling he was in a life threatening situation. I don’t know yet. In these threads it really does not matter. What has mattered throughout to some is jumping on the band wagon. To wage a war against what they perceive as an injustice practiced exclusively by the white community. Well, no one is denying the plight of the African American community for 400 years in this country. Yet to suggest that it has not led to the creation of dysfunctional black communities across this nation, has been and continues to be detrimental to solving the problems that need resolving.

I thought blacks represented 19% of the country’s population. It may be closer to 13% I am not sure. Yet they represent 50% of the people convicted for murder. Over 90% of blacks who are killed, are killed by other blacks. What happened in Ferguson will be found out. It will not change the fact that the root of the problem resides within the black community itself. It is cultural and nothing will change without many more coming to terms with that. Many more meaning the black community itself.



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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:52 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/hedy-epstein-arrested-ferguso
n-holocaust-_n_5689822.html



About as easy a collar as the cops could hope for.






Short of shooting her in the back of the head you mean?

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 12:35 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT




You ever look in the mirror?
With NOBC, or course, it's already settled:

the unarmed, compliant, unassuming, law-

abiding, non-drugged, innocent, non-thieving,

meek, running away child was absolutely,

beyond any reasonable doubt, Innocent.

No need to confuse the issue with facts,


those darn inconvenient things.





And YOU are a lying sack of Gose.

You infer those things, maybe. But quote me

where I wrote them. C'mon. "Bring it, ya

fucking animal." Bring it on.

I posted the link to the conservative blog

about Brown's hip hop/rap ambitions. I posted

about the fact that he had marijuana in his

system. I'm posting documented sources for the conservative argument, AREN"T I?


You're one of those Tea Party folks, aren't

you? Proud of that fact, aren't you? Believe

in the Constitution, don't you? And in the

Bill of Rights, don't you?Or maybe only the Second one, the one about YOUR right to own a gun and scare folks at Starbucks.


I believe in the Fifth and Sixth AMendments, the ones about being innocent until proven guilty in a court of law; and the one about not being deprived of life liberty or property without due process of law.


HOw do YOU feel about those two? Maybe rights only count if they're yours, not if some racial inferior of yours wants to claim them.

I'm ready for your response, the one about, "that's not what the Founders meant about those two amendments."

If you need me to. I can provide documentation about those amendments, not just "anecdotal evidencee."

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 12:47 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:



Just ask Trader Joe's. They must keep their fellow blacks subjugated and penned in the poor neighborhoods to maintain their lifestyle of wealth from race-baiting. This is why they insist upon keeping the jobs out of the areas, and looting, rioting, and burning any business (AKA employer) that dares to defy them.


Trader Joe's did that? ANd you can document that? Or is it 'anecdotal evidence"?
Or maybe you are referring to Jesse and AL? In that case , LEARN TO WRITE A COHERENT PARAGRAPH. I learned that in a PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL? Maybe they didn't cover that before you dropped out.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 12:50 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

The Chief or whomever, stated the first part of the above, specifically in reference to a FOI request, which is usually handled (at the direction of some lawyer, like a Prosecuting Attorney) in the most non-effusive way, so as not to reveal too much of the case.



OH, yeah , the most non-effusive way? Like at a TV press conference.... usually

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 12:56 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:


I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority. What I am saying is that the press know exactly how to go about getting themselves arrested.

for accuracy, I snipped some here. Irrelevant stuff-- NOBC

What he did was so obvious it was an are you kidding me moment.




And these professional police officers aren't trained to recognize provocation by people they encounter? Especially obvious provocation? And aren't trained in how to deal with unco-operative citizens who are asserting their own personal constitutional rights? And aren't taught the legal limits on their (police officers') power and authority?

Oh, yeah, I forgot-- this IS in Ferguson Missouri. They are taught how to do that stuff down there... Beat 'em with your nightstick. Gas 'em. SHOOT 'em. Handcuff 'em and arrest 'em, and then haul 'em to the station. Where their superiors, who ARE BETTER trained, dismiss the charges and let 'em go, because they know about the court rulings that say that police officers DON'T have the right to do that. And because the superiors know about the lawsuits that will be filed, and won, and upheld, because those are settled matters of legal precedent; and know about how much those lawsuits WILL COST, in fighting , and after they're lost, in settlement payouts.





Yes they see it for what it is. Does that mean they let the person stay in a restaurant they are trying to close? Or continue to be belligerent? Or do they take him out forcible, meaning under arrest? What they do is arrest the person. Then the next day watch how they denied the reporter or whomever their rights plastered all over the news. Watch how they are portrayed as out of control. Which is exactly what the reporter did. Whenever a reporter becomes the story, 99% of the time it is lousy reporting from lousy reporter.

It is about sectionalism. A tendency to be more concerned with the interests of your particular group or region than with the problems and interests of the larger group, country, etc. In other words, stirring up the pot to gain ratings. Things are bad enough without creating false images due to your own behavior while reporting the news.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:02 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
BCoat

You’re kidding right, you're concerned I misspelled a word?



Congradulations. You got through a complete post without any spelling errors I could find. Now, punctuation and verb use errors-- I can show you the ones you made in that post, if you want to learn about them.

They undercut the inteligence of your arguments, made YOU look ignorant, or uneducated ( stupid, dumb-- if you need small words) to an educated person. They suggest that any argument you may make is uneducated.


Hey, I made a spelling error in this post. I cuaght it myself, I did it on porpose. I report it here. Consider it a test-- can you find it without using a spell checker? How much help do you need? How many of your buddies will it take to recconize it?

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:07 PM

THGRRI


Since I have not been impressed with your being able to sort through the issues in this thread in an objective manner, I will forgo the lesson you offer and instead suggest to you that you try and think things through before you post. I would rather be able to understand an issue than spell it.

As others here love to say, ad hom....posting on your part.

Besides, correcting my spelling is MAGONDAUGHTERS job.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:14 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

At that point in time, the facts of Michael Brown also being a habitual criminal,



ANd you can document that statement, of course? The "habitual " part? Is that something you heard on Hannity? Or maybe "anecdotal"?

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:26 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:


I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority. What I am saying is that the press know exactly how to go about getting themselves arrested.

for accuracy, I snipped some here. Irrelevant stuff-- NOBC

What he did was so obvious it was an are you kidding me moment.




And these professional police officers aren't trained to recognize provocation by people they encounter? Especially obvious provocation? And aren't trained in how to deal with unco-operative citizens who are asserting their own personal constitutional rights? And aren't taught the legal limits on their (police officers') power and authority?

Oh, yeah, I forgot-- this IS in Ferguson Missouri. They are taught how to do that stuff down there... Beat 'em with your nightstick. Gas 'em. SHOOT 'em. Handcuff 'em and arrest 'em, and then haul 'em to the station. Where their superiors, who ARE BETTER trained, dismiss the charges and let 'em go, because they know about the court rulings that say that police officers DON'T have the right to do that. And because the superiors know about the lawsuits that will be filed, and won, and upheld, because those are settled matters of legal precedent; and know about how much those lawsuits WILL COST, in fighting , and after they're lost, in settlement payouts.





Yes they see it for what it is. Does that mean they let the person stay in a restaurant they are trying to close? Or continue to be belligerent? Or do they take him out forcible, meaning under arrest? What they do is arrest the person. Then the next day watch how they denied the reporter or whomever their rights plastered all over the news. Watch how they are portrayed as out of control. Which is exactly what the reporter did. Whenever a reporter becomes the story, 99% of the time it is lousy reporting from lousy reporter.

It is about sectionalism. A tendency to be more concerned with the interests of your particular group or region than with the problems and interests of the larger group, country, etc. In other words, stirring up the pot to gain ratings. Things are bad enough without creating false images due to your own behavior while reporting the news.


Your first sentence is :
Quote:



I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority.



ANd then you spend the rest of the post doing exactly that.

What happened when the cops and reporters got to the station? What did the superior officers do? Pretty much exactly what I said they did, didn't they? Dismissed the charges and let the reporters go? Did they publicly apologize for being wrong and in violation of the reporters' rights YET ?



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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:27 PM

THGRRI


"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you," he writes. "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/19/sunil-dutta-police-washington
-post_n_5692266.html


For too many it is impossible. I my self was slammed to the ground and pummeled by 6 cops. I was the one in the wrong that caused it. They were wrong in their response to my behavior. Shit happens when emotions run high. When a cop says do something like stand their and be quite for a moment, then do it. It is not time for a debate. If that were done more often, then maybe police stops would become cops waving high when you pass.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:37 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you," he writes. "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/19/sunil-dutta-police-washington
-post_n_5692266.html


For too many it is impossible.



Are you one of those Constitutionalists? Tea Partier, like JSF or Rap? Libertarian? Maybe you can show me in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, where a free citizen is required to do any of those things. Because it ain't in there. Ain't in the law or the court rulings. Oh, yeah, you suggested in another post that the law isn't important if you're a cop? ( Forgive me, that's "anecdotal." I can probably go back and find the post and document exactly what you wrote, if I want to work at it hard enough? Or maybe you'd care to find the post I'm "anecdotally" referring to? Maybe I heard it on the radio-- mighta been Hannity, or Beck, or El Rusho.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:57 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Nope Fern not the reason. Stop pretending you understand the street




First off, maybe you oughtta stop calling him FERN. Give him some respect, asshole. He goes by the screen name FREM. And don't pull some crap about being dislexic or some shit like that. Either quit being malicious or learn to read and type.




Hey, THUG, did you ever respond to this one? Maybe that was another one of your spelling errors, only you spelled it wrong in several posts?

'Cuz if you did, I missed it.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:02 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

….Bcoat
Are you one of those Constitutionalists? Tea Partier, like JSF or Rap? Libertarian? Maybe you can show me in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, where a free citizen is required to do any of those things. Because it ain't in there. Ain't in the law or the court rulings. Oh, yeah, you suggested in another post that the law isn't important if you're a cop? ( Forgive me, that's "anecdotal." I can probably go back and find the post and document exactly what you wrote, if I want to work at it hard enough? Or maybe you'd care to find the post I'm "anecdotally" referring to? Maybe I heard it on the radio-- mighta been Hannity, or Beck, or El Rusho.



First you have a few grammatical and spelling errors. Perhaps you should check my spelling with a spell checker rather than rely on your spelling skills? Perhaps you think I misspelled a word and instead it is a word that is not in your vocabulary so you think it is something it is not? Second I am an independent who believes Republicans have gone crazy and Tea Partiers are nuts. Libertarians are very limited in scope as far as the world goes, and are more likely to vote against anything that helps minorities or the population in general. I don’t care for their views either. I don’t really listen to them much. I guess I should listen more so I can pin down how they are in effect separatists that do not see the country as a collective.

I actually thought the name was Fern. It is one of those things that I saw the first time and never looked back. I would point out the name caller in this thread is you. Care to go back and look at your posts as apposed to mine?

Why don't you try addressing what I post rather than the misspelling of a word. I have made two or three posts that you have responded to without touching on what I said. Only how I said it.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:03 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hey Rap,

The quote below is NOT mine, you got me confused with someone else:

SGG

Also...

Quote:

And we're supposed to buy that shit from Breitbart, the same shitheads who posted a pic of a protestor throwing a tear gas grenade BACK at the cops while insisting it was a fuckin molotov ?
Riiiiight.

And apparently you missed EC's relevant post earlier, with cite from CCNews.



You dismiss Breitbart, but then go on to cite CCN ? ROFLMAO !!!!

Man, talk about being a total conspiracy nutjob !

I doubt very much there was any " insisting " of anything, as you claim. Molotov cocktails were thrown. If some intern misidentified an object being thrown in a photo, does that mean the event didn't take place ?

Who the hell is CCN ? One of PN's rivals ?


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:09 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


so folks need to chill the hell out and back off before they start making more baseless accusations.

[i/]You should follow your own advice, methinks![i/]


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
And another thing...

No one is suggesting that even with young Michael having roughed up the store clerk and stealing $ 50.00 worth of cheap cigars did he DESERVED to die.

There still is the matter of what exactly took place when he encountered the cop.

The cop didn't know M.B. was a suspect, but because M.B. had just committed a strong arm robbery, he likely DID assume the cop was coming after him.

So far, the claims that the cop shot M.B. in the back have proven false. Makes one wonder what ELSE some have claimed took place didn't happen either.

That STILL does not clear the cop of being accused of 2nd degree murder, or what ever the charge he gets. And yes, I do expect something to happen to the cop, as the case proceeds.

Whether a hardened criminal or a choir boy, I still haven't seen evidence which justifies M.B. being on the receiving end of 6 + shots fired by the cop.

WAS he trying to wrestle the gun away from the officer ? IF that's found to be the case, then sadly , it may be the tragic conclusion of some really poor judgements made by a young man that day, resulting in his death.

Tox results still have to come in too, so folks need to chill the hell out and back off before they start making more baseless accusations.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:11 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
All the witnesses said the cop shot him in the back. How is it all the witness saw him shot in the back?



They didn't. They were LYING.




I wish this site had a thing in the quote feature to time and date stamp the original post. would make it easier to find them.

I thought of this post this morning when we were discussing the pro-police eyewitnesses. I suggested that they should be given the same weight as the pro-Brown ones RAp had been rejecting. Figgered he was gonna claim he never did that. Aug 17, 12:14 AM , this one was.

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:16 PM

THGRRI


I see Bcoat you are still not going to address the content of my posts. Have a problem with trying to show it is wrong? Or that some how I am a bigot as 1kiki suggested. I deal in reality not political correctness.


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:28 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

….Bcoat
Are you one of those Constitutionalists? Tea Partier, like JSF or Rap? Libertarian? Maybe you can show me in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, where a free citizen is required to do any of those things. Because it ain't in there. Ain't in the law or the court rulings. Oh, yeah, you suggested in another post that the law isn't important if you're a cop? ( Forgive me, that's "anecdotal." I can probably go back and find the post and document exactly what you wrote, if I want to work at it hard enough? Or maybe you'd care to find the post I'm "anecdotally" referring to? Maybe I heard it on the radio-- mighta been Hannity, or Beck, or El Rusho.



First you have a few grammatical and spelling errors. Perhaps you should check my spelling with a spell checker rather than rely on your spelling skills? Perhaps you think I misspelled a word and instead it is a word that is not in your vocabulary so you think it is something it is not? Second I am an independent who believes Republicans have gone crazy and Tea Partiers are nuts. Libertarians are very limited in scope as far as the world goes, and are more likely to vote against anything that helps minorities or the population in general. I don’t care for their views either. I don’t really listen to them much. I guess I should listen more so I can pin down how they are in effect separatists that do not see the country as a collective.

I actually thought the name was Fern. It is one of those things that I saw the first time and never looked back. I would point out the name caller in this thread is you. Care to go back and look at your posts as apposed to mine?

Why don't you try addressing what I post rather than the misspelling of a word. I have made two or three posts that you have responded to without touching on what I said. Only how I said it.




You might notice that I've been polite or apologized to folks I respect. I try to, with folks like that. Sometimes even when I knew they wouldn't care, but my sense of rightness suggested that I had been unfair or inaccurate with them.


MAybe you'd care to respond to the main point of my post Or is answering questions something you don't do?

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