REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

You liberal dimwits may want to read this, then when you're done reading it please shut the hell up...and you're all stupid.

POSTED BY: WHOZIT
UPDATED: Monday, June 23, 2014 16:53
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4784
PAGE 1 of 1

Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:31 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Sheik sheik sheik, sheik sheik sheik, Sheik Y'r Bouti.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Links to a headline, a claim, but not much else.

I'm sure ISIS / ISIL , who ever, would like everyone to believe they have more support and fire power than they have, but unless there's any way of verifying this, ... meh.

In short, I think they're fibbing.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:50 PM

BYTEMITE


Okay, full credit, this thread title is both unexpected and kinda funny.

Obama... :/ Guy's such a screwup that I don't really pay attention anymore. Just figure he's probably doing something wrong today.

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:56 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by WHOZIT:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10910868/Ira
q-crisis-Obama-may-launch-air-strikes-without-Congress-amid-calls-for-Maliki-to-go-live.html





I'm sorry, I saw the headline but found no story about weapons of mass destruction. I would say that is not a very reputable source. It looks like they used a false headline to suck you in. I'll wait and see.

si shen



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Thursday, June 19, 2014 7:03 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Links to a headline, a claim, but not much else.

I'm sure ISIS / ISIL , who ever, would like everyone to believe they have more support and fire power than they have, but unless there's any way of verifying this, ... meh.



Like Deena said ... "Naga! Oomay mah luke! Ahno bonga akka chogo eh akka kalaba."




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Thursday, June 19, 2014 8:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Is this the one where he says there is no military solution, so he is sending military troops over as advisers?

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 8:56 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is this the one where he says there is no military solution, so he is sending military troops over as advisers?

I think you may be getting it...

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Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is this the one where he says there is no military solution, so he is sending military troops over as advisers?



Greatest non-teleprompter speech ever! And it only took him a week to come up with it ? Of course, if you just condense his " umm, uhh , umm.."s all on their own, the speech would last a full 2 minutes.

That's our Barry !

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Friday, June 20, 2014 7:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's our Barry !

The U.S. should reengage militarily in Iraq only if the country's sectarian communities reach a political agreement, retired Gen. David Petraeus said at a conference in London. "This cannot be the United States being the air force for Shia militias, or a Shia on Sunni Arab fight," he said. www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-obama-iraq-20140619-story.html

Iraqi Chemical Weapons Complex Now In Extremist Hands



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 20, 2014 7:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


OK now, THIS is surprising. To see CNN run w/ this story, that does raise all manner of questions.

( and to be fair, there is no real ' story ' here yet. It's a headline. No details. No site, not much of anything in the way of true confirmation. )

IF there was a Iraq chemical 'complex' , as described, what is known about it ?

Shouldn't any old chemical weapons, no matter how depleted and out dated, have been destroyed ?

And what of this complex ? What's there ? If there are any military grade production or ordinances there, why wasn't this -

A ) Fully exposed by the Media ?

B ) Dismantled and destroyed by the US military ?

Channeling my inner Wash here, WHATS A CHEMICAL WEAPONS COMPLEX DOING IN IRAQ ??

Seems I remember something about a war, and then a 10 year 'occupation' or some such ???


And BTW - It's Friday , folks. Look for yet another document dump by the admin or someone in the Govt as they sneak in something late this afternoon and right before the official start of Summer.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, June 20, 2014 8:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

If there are any military grade production or ordinances there, why wasn't this -

A ) Fully exposed by the Media ?

B ) Dismantled and destroyed by the US military ?

Channeling my inner Wash here, WHATS A CHEMICAL WEAPONS COMPLEX DOING IN IRAQ ??

Seems I remember something about a war, and then a 10 year 'occupation' or some such ???

Bush:"Iraqi chemical weapons"



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 20, 2014 8:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Not sure i get the point of the video...

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Friday, June 20, 2014 8:18 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Not sure i get the point of the video...

Bush dodged another one. If there was any justice in the world Bush would have been booted in the face.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 20, 2014 8:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



How the hell is the news that Iraq's chemical weapons complex falling into the hands of ISIS Bush's fault ??



Sarcasm not coming in too clear, if that's the intent.

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Friday, June 20, 2014 8:35 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

How the hell is the news that Iraq's chemical weapons complex falling into the hands of ISIS Bush's fault ??



Sarcasm not coming in too clear, if that's the intent.

Lots of pundits predicted this. Iraq is 100% Bush's baby. Obama is handling it just as he should. He has full authority to do as he likes.

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Friday, June 20, 2014 8:56 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

How the hell is the news that Iraq's chemical weapons complex falling into the hands of ISIS Bush's fault ??

Sarcasm not coming in too clear, if that's the intent.

Did you recognize that Nouri al-Maliki, Iraq's Prime minister, was standing beside Bush when the boots were thrown? Al-Maliki is Prime minister to this very day. There is continuity between what Bush did and what is happening now. When Bush left office, no reset button was pressed to clear away his decisions.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 20, 2014 9:01 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Reaver - try following the gorram thread before you start spouting off mindless Left wing lies as talking points.

And 2nd... Lol @ " reset button "!!

Good one.

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Friday, June 20, 2014 9:20 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Reaver - try following the gorram thread before you start spouting off mindless Left wing lies as talking points.

And 2nd... Lol @ " reset button "!!

Good one.

Bush wasn't afraid to kill Saddam. Bush dealt with Saddam Hussein's objections to US policy, but Bush flinched with Nouri al-Maliki.
Quote:

In an interview published by the German magazine Der Spiegel in June 2008, al-Maliki said that a schedule for a withdrawal of U.S. troops from the country of "about 16 months... would be the right time-frame for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes". In the interview, he said the U.S. government has been reluctant to agree to a timetable "because they feel it would appear tantamount to an admission of defeat. But that isn't the case at all... it is not evidence of a defeat, but of a victory, of a severe blow we have inflicted on Al Qaeda and the militias." He said U.S. negotiators were coming around to his point of view. Hillary Clinton and Carl Levin were two of several U.S. politicians who called for him to be removed from office in 2007. Senator Clinton urged Iraq's parliament to select a "less divisive and more unifying figure" and implied she felt al-Maliki was too concerned about Iraq's Shiite majority and not enough with national reconciliation. "During his trip to Iraq last week, Senator Levin ... confirmed that the Iraqi government is nonfunctional and cannot produce a political settlement because it is too beholden to religious and sectarian leaders", she said. Maliki hit back and said the Democratic senators were acting as if Iraq were "their property" and that they should "come to their senses" and "respect democracy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouri_al-Maliki#Relationship_with_U.S.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 20, 2014 10:50 AM

THGRRI


We all knew there were chemical weapons plants in the north and west of Iraq. All this means is they, the terrorists are at one. It sounds like an old decrepit place. I believe I saw the term wasteland attributed to it. It may still cause a problem but one can only hope it is a problem for those who are now walking around there.

“Iraq's Chemical Weapon Program

Well before Operation Desert Storm or the U.N. inspections that followed it, Iraq had already begun to build chemical weapons. After launching a research effort in the 1970s, Iraq was able to use chemical weapons in its war against Iran and to kill large numbers of its own Kurdish population in the 1980s. During the first Gulf War, there were fears that Iraq would launch chemical-tipped missiles at its neighbors, particularly Israel, but Iraq refrained for fear of U.S. retaliation. During Operation Iraqi Freedom, coalition troops again feared they might be hit with chemical weapons, though this did not come to pass.

By 1991, the United Nations had established its Special Commission (UNSCOM) and charged it with the task of destroying, removing, or rendering harmless "all chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."

By the time UNSCOM left Iraq in December 1998, it had eliminated a large portion of Iraq's chemical weapon potential. UNSCOM had overseen the destruction or incapacitation of more than 88,000 filled or unfilled chemical munitions, over 600 tons of weaponized or bulk chemical agents, some 4,000 tons of precursor chemicals, some 980 pieces of key production equipment, and some 300 pieces of analytical equipment. Notwithstanding these extraordinary achievements, there remained important uncertainties regarding Iraq's holdings of chemical weapons, their precursors, and munitions”.


http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/chemical.html



This was before we even went into Iraq to remove its current government. Not just Saddam Hussein. The biggest mistake made was removing the entire existing government. What we did find in the way of Chemicals when we got there was very little indeed.


I personally will wait and see how this and the rest starts to play out and continue to hope the President makes the best decisions possible going forward. I loved seeing information suggesting Hillary Clinton understood the situation with Maliki being a problem and why years ago. Her vote was wrong to give Bush the right to chose if we go into Iraq. Yet her showing good sense while it was going down helps.

It is nice to see yet another voice of reason posting well thought out assessments of the situation past and present. Not just ideological driven crap.


si shen



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Friday, June 20, 2014 11:16 AM

JONGSSTRAW


"Chemical Weapons Facilities" has such a sinister connotation. Just call them "Scientific Climate Research Stations" and the problem will go away.

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Friday, June 20, 2014 11:21 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
"Chemical Weapons Facilities" has such a sinister connotation. Just call them "Scientific Climate Research Stations" and the problem will go away.



That makes sense in an ironic kind of way.

si shen



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Friday, June 20, 2014 11:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


OMG!!!

"Chlorine plants" on the map! Because, you could NEVER use bleach for anything other than making WMD! Yanno, like disinfecting water! That would be unthinkable!

And "phenol plants"! Double OMG! Because you would NEVER use phenol for making plastics and detergents!

---------------

Sheesh.

These are common... common... industrial chemicals. No modern economy is without them.


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Friday, June 20, 2014 11:37 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OMG!!!

"Chlorine plants" on the map! Because, you could NEVER use bleach for anything other than making WMD! Yanno, like disinfecting water! That would be unthinkable!

And "phenol plants"! Double OMG! Because you would NEVER use phenol for making plastics and detergents!

---------------



Sheesh.

These are common... common... industrial chemicals. No modern economy is without them.




Iraq tried to construct duel purpose plants in order to hide what they were doing.

"Chemicals that serve as ingredients for making chemical weapon agents are known as "precursors." In the early stages of its chemical weapon program Iraq imported the necessary precursors. However, from 1986 to 1990, Iraq constructed and operated numerous plants and facilities (such as Fallujah 1, 2 and 3) for producing precursors on its own. Iraq told UNSCOM that during Iraq's entire chemical weapon program, which lasted from the mid-1970s through at least 1991, it produced and procured 20,150 tons of key precursor chemicals. Of that amount, Iraq claimed to have used 14,500 tons to produce chemical agents or other key precursor chemicals, leaving 5,650 tons of precursors unaccounted for. However, Iraq also claimed that only 3,915 tons of precursor agents remained inside the country as of January 1991, a noticeable discrepancy. Of that 3,915 tons, a total of 2,850 tons were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision and the rest was said by Iraq to have been destroyed during the first Gulf War or destroyed by Iraq unilaterally.

Iraq declared to UNSCOM that at one time it held over 200,000 special munitions, either filled or unfilled, specifically designed for chemical or biological weapons. These included grenades, mortar shells, aerial bombs, artillery shells, rockets and missile warheads. Of those, Iraq claimed that it used or disposed of approximately 100,000 munitions filled with chemical weapons during the period of its war with Iran, which ended in 1988. With regard to its holdings as of January 1991, Iraq asserted that 127,941 filled and unfilled special munitions remained in the country. During the first Gulf War -- according to Iraq -- 41,998 munitions were destroyed by Allied bombing, and Iraq also said that it unilaterally destroyed 29,662 munitions after the first Gulf War. The remaining 56,281 special munitions were either destroyed or accounted for under UNSCOM supervision.

Iraq gained the ability to manufacture R-400 and DB-2 aerial bombs, chemical containers for 122mm rockets, and Al-Hussein missile warheads. Iraq had to import all other munition shells, but UNSCOM believed that Iraq also had the ability to empty conventional artillery shells and aerial bombs and refill them with chemical agents. Iraq had a wide array of munitions specially designed for chemical use, and some of them were used for more than one chemical agent".

http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/chemical.html



si shen



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Friday, June 20, 2014 11:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


We know all about dual purpose facilities. Hell, we (Rumsfeld) sold Iraq a ton of dual purpose equipment back in 80's... crop-spraying helicopters, small computers, chemical reactors... all to support Iraq in its fight against Iran. We even supplied them ground truth and satellite info so they could target Iranian troops better. You seem to think that Iraq's WMD were a big surprise back then. They weren't - at least, not to TPTB.

The UN knows about dual-use, too. That's why they would look at a facility's capacity to see if it matched the expected use.

But the reality is that is order to make significant quantities of WMD you need a lot more than basic chemicals, you need sophisticated facilities that can make really pure chemicals, because the impurities that are left in the product cause it to degrade even faster than it normally does. The same thing goes for anthrax. Liquid anthrax literally spoils, and anthrax spores need sophisticated treatment to keep them from clumping due to static electricity.

The reality is that nearly all WMD decay pretty quickly. You won't find any useful - or even harmful- "leftovers" in old facilities. Especially not from the 80s and 90s.

Why bring up old news now??

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Friday, June 20, 2014 12:32 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Dick and Liz Cheney Troll Us With Scathing Iraq Op-ed. Dick Cheney Not Completely Sure If Obama Is a Traitor. http://online.wsj.com/articles/dick-cheney-and-liz-cheney-the-collapsi
ng-obama-doctrine-1403046522


The Cheney video on YouTube has disabled comments. Some things never change.

The Cheneys’ op ed is silent on what they would do differently in Iraq today. The op-ed contains nothing even approaching a specific suggestion for what, other than to say that defeating terrorists “will require a strategy — not a fantasy. It will require sustained difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts — not empty misleading rhetoric. It will require rebuilding America’s military capacity — reversing the Obama policies that have weakened our armed forces and reduced our ability to influence events around the world.”

So to recap: we need a strategy, the Cheneys won’t tell us what that strategy might be.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 20, 2014 12:51 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OMG!!!

"Chlorine plants" on the map! Because, you could NEVER use bleach for anything other than making WMD! Yanno, like disinfecting water! That would be unthinkable!

And "phenol plants"! Double OMG! Because you would NEVER use phenol for making plastics and detergents!

---------------

Sheesh.

These are common... common... industrial chemicals. No modern economy is without them.

Why bring up old news now??




I was responding to this, and the link posted in the first post.

Iraq crisis: Isis jihadists 'seize Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons stockpile' - live

si shen



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Friday, June 20, 2014 12:52 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Dick and Liz Cheney Troll Us With Scathing Iraq Op-ed. Dick Cheney Not Completely Sure If Obama Is a Traitor. http://online.wsj.com/articles/dick-cheney-and-liz-cheney-the-collapsi
ng-obama-doctrine-1403046522


The Cheney video on YouTube has disabled comments. Some things never change.

The Cheneys’ op ed is silent on what they would do differently in Iraq today. The op-ed contains nothing even approaching a specific suggestion for what, other than to say that defeating terrorists “will require a strategy — not a fantasy. It will require sustained difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts — not empty misleading rhetoric. It will require rebuilding America’s military capacity — reversing the Obama policies that have weakened our armed forces and reduced our ability to influence events around the world.”

So to recap: we need a strategy, the Cheneys won’t tell us what that strategy might be.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Nice post

si shen



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Friday, June 20, 2014 1:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


" Baby milk factory "



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Friday, June 20, 2014 1:55 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
" Baby milk factory "







Well thought out argument sir I am very impressed. Not to surprised when all the facts are on your side the way they are?

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing. I look forward to your next one.


si shen



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Friday, June 20, 2014 2:25 PM

THGRRI


Man I hope to god he sends troops.

MOSCOW/TEHRAN: Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday offered Iraqi premier Nouri al-Maliki Russia's total backing for the fight against jihadist fighters who have swept across the Middle East country.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Putin-offers-comp
lete-support-to-Iraq-Iran-says-Obama-lacks-will-to-combat-terrorism/articleshow/36904573.cms


si shen



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Friday, June 20, 2014 3:53 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:


Man I hope to god he sends troops.



Wait... Russia is actually thinking about getting into basically another Russia Afghanistan war?

Holy cats people don't seem to be able to learn from history.

And even though there's a ton of propaganda against Putin he's still kind of an arrogant showboating jerkass, so I hope this is his Napoleonic downfall.

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Friday, June 20, 2014 4:02 PM

THGRRI


He is aliened with Iran so I think this is posturing more than any thing else. Even though he dictates I don't think he could sell sending troops at home. I also think he sees us not wanting to appear to pick sides and why and he will take head. I just thought it was an interesting headline.

si shen



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Friday, June 20, 2014 4:12 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is this the one where he says there is no military solution, so he is sending military troops over as advisers?


I'm not sure there was a military solution to the Taliban/Al Qaeda in Afghanistan either. Does that mean we sit on our hands as terrorists and their sympathisers take over countries and set up terror camps?

I think as with Afghanistan, as with Syria, there is no 'winning' option here - and that includes sitting on our hands.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, June 21, 2014 12:58 AM

FREMDFIRMA



In the words of Tony Stark...
There is NO version of this where you come out on top!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontTouchitYouIdiot

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero

-F

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Sunday, June 22, 2014 12:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I think that if we're going to follow a foreign policy for which there is no blowback for the vast majority of Americans, we should start by following the beginning of the Hippocratic Oath...

First, do no harm.

Economies and societies need stability and justice. You can't produce reliably if you're constantly looking over your shoulder for the gunman, and you can't produce reliably if the fruit of your labor is constantly being stolen from you. Production in the basis of wealth, and fairness is the basis of cooperation.

Quote:

I'm not sure there was a military solution to the Taliban/Al Qaeda in Afghanistan either. Does that mean we sit on our hands as terrorists and their sympathisers take over countries and set up terror camps? I think as with Afghanistan, as with Syria, there is no 'winning' option here - and that includes sitting on our hands.
There are a lot of non-military options to choose from. One of the things to remember is that the various corrupt leaders around the world ... including Obama... get their funding from somewhere. You can't have a government in a financial vacuum. So the first thing to do is cut off access to the formal banking system. A little hard to do, since money laundering is so profitable! (Just as HSBC) But if you can get a hold of 90% of the transactions, you'll seriously impede a government's ability to arm itself.

The other point is that leaders who stay in power at the point of a gun have access to weapons.

The third point is that within even the most corrupt societies are people and movements who are seeking to make progress- wells for clean water, schools for children, food for the people, equal rights before the law... we should be supporting those movements.

What the USA does is stomp across the world in giant hobnailed boots, scattering governments and people here and there. The latest name of the game seems to BE "destabilization"... not to replace it with something better, but simply to leave wide smoking ruins where societies used to be.

That generates blowback.

And it occurred to me... the wealthy, they don't care about blowback because they're not going to be the victims! WHO were the victims of 9-11? WHO were the soldiers who were killed and maimed invading Afghanistan and Iraq? Jamie Diamon? Dick Cheney? King Abdullah? Anyone in their families?

Nah... it's us lowly shmucks. Blowback to them isn't a reaction to be feared, it's a foreign policy tool and an opportunity for investment.

Boy, are we screwed, or what?

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Sunday, June 22, 2014 2:55 PM

THGRRI


It must be nice to be so righteous at the expense of our military and the shield they provide you.




si shen



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Sunday, June 22, 2014 3:17 PM

JONGSSTRAW


'Cause you gotta have friends


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Sunday, June 22, 2014 3:17 PM

JONGSSTRAW



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think that if we're going to follow a foreign policy for which there is no blowback for the vast majority of Americans, we should start by following the beginning of the Hippocratic Oath...

First, do no harm.

Economies and societies need stability and justice. You can't produce reliably if you're constantly looking over your shoulder for the gunman, and you can't produce reliably if the fruit of your labor is constantly being stolen from you. Production in the basis of wealth, and fairness is the basis of cooperation.

Quote:

I'm not sure there was a military solution to the Taliban/Al Qaeda in Afghanistan either. Does that mean we sit on our hands as terrorists and their sympathisers take over countries and set up terror camps? I think as with Afghanistan, as with Syria, there is no 'winning' option here - and that includes sitting on our hands.
There are a lot of non-military options to choose from. One of the things to remember is that the various corrupt leaders around the world ... including Obama... get their funding from somewhere. You can't have a government in a financial vacuum. So the first thing to do is cut off access to the formal banking system. A little hard to do, since money laundering is so profitable! (Just as HSBC) But if you can get a hold of 90% of the transactions, you'll seriously impede a government's ability to arm itself.

The other point is that leaders who stay in power at the point of a gun have access to weapons.

The third point is that within even the most corrupt societies are people and movements who are seeking to make progress- wells for clean water, schools for children, food for the people, equal rights before the law... we should be supporting those movements.

What the USA does is stomp across the world in giant hobnailed boots, scattering governments and people here and there. The latest name of the game seems to BE "destabilization"... not to replace it with something better, but simply to leave wide smoking ruins where societies used to be.

That generates blowback.

And it occurred to me... the wealthy, they don't care about blowback because they're not going to be the victims! WHO were the victims of 9-11? WHO were the soldiers who were killed and maimed invading Afghanistan and Iraq? Jamie Diamon? Dick Cheney? King Abdullah? Anyone in their families?

Nah... it's us lowly shmucks. Blowback to them isn't a reaction to be feared, it's a foreign policy tool and an opportunity for investment.

Boy, are we screwed, or what?




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Sunday, June 22, 2014 3:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It must be nice to be so righteous at the expense of our military and the shield they provide you
First of all, I pay a crap-ton of taxes. It's not as if they're doing this for free, out of the goodness of their hearts. So spare me the military sob-story- they're getting paid by my taxes.

Second, when has the military shielded ME (or most people) from anything? Did they protect the USA from 9-11? I noticed that I, and most Americans, happen to be HERE and the military happens to be THERE, doing god-knows-what. They're not defending me, they're defending the banks and the oil companies.

Until we're actually invaded, you can't point to any examples where the military has "defended" anyone.

Sheesh.

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Monday, June 23, 2014 3:46 PM

BYTEMITE


Me, I never asked anyone to die for me. So anyone expecting me to jump up and salute while whistling Yankee Doodle for their sacrifices is in for a long wait.

They've got my sympathy. They don't have my allegiance. There isn't anything or anyone in this world who I think can do no wrong and nothing and no-one I wouldn't question. You start worshiping the military or the state, you no longer have the freedom people supposedly fought and died for.

Vets looking around all sad wondering what it is their buddies died for, and the truth is empty and bleak as the promises of our government. People fought and died, because our leadership is a greedy bunch of cowards in service to politics.

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Monday, June 23, 2014 4:04 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

It must be nice to be so righteous at the expense of our military and the shield they provide you
First of all, I pay a crap-ton of taxes. It's not as if they're doing this for free, out of the goodness of their hearts. So spare me the military sob-story- they're getting paid by my taxes.

Second, when has the military shielded ME (or most people) from anything? Did they protect the USA from 9-11? I noticed that I, and most Americans, happen to be HERE and the military happens to be THERE, doing god-knows-what. They're not defending me, they're defending the banks and the oil companies.

Until we're actually invaded, you can't point to any examples where the military has "defended" anyone.

Sheesh.



Praise the lord you can't calculate. I know because I have debated you.



You just keep being hatful signym, it give me a sense of security.

si shen



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Monday, June 23, 2014 4:08 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Me, I never asked anyone to die for me. So anyone expecting me to jump up and salute while whistling Yankee Doodle for their sacrifices is in for a long wait.

They've got my sympathy. They don't have my allegiance. There isn't anything or anyone in this world who I think can do no wrong and nothing and no-one I wouldn't question. You start worshiping the military or the state, you no longer have the freedom people supposedly fought and died for.

Vets looking around all sad wondering what it is their buddies died for, and the truth is empty and bleak as the promises of our government. People fought and died, because our leadership is a greedy bunch of cowards in service to politics.



You would ask if you lived in many of the troubled countries in the world. Of that I have no doubt. lucky for you, you live in a country where you can take it for granted and not have to ask.

si shen



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Monday, June 23, 2014 4:14 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Me, I never asked anyone to die for me. So anyone expecting me to jump up and salute while whistling Yankee Doodle for their sacrifices is in for a long wait.

They've got my sympathy. They don't have my allegiance. There isn't anything or anyone in this world who I think can do no wrong and nothing and no-one I wouldn't question. You start worshiping the military or the state, you no longer have the freedom people supposedly fought and died for.

Vets looking around all sad wondering what it is their buddies died for, and the truth is empty and bleak as the promises of our government. People fought and died, because our leadership is a greedy bunch of cowards in service to politics.



You would ask if you lived in many of the troubled countries in the world. Of that I have no doubt. lucky for you, you live in a country where you can take it for granted and not have to ask.

si shen





Yeah? So who should I ask to die for me first, eh? Because this nation is going to shit, lemme tell you.

I'll die for myself, thanks much. Keep that military white knighting well away from me. Got enough blood on my hands.

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Monday, June 23, 2014 4:19 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Me, I never asked anyone to die for me. So anyone expecting me to jump up and salute while whistling Yankee Doodle for their sacrifices is in for a long wait.

They've got my sympathy. They don't have my allegiance. There isn't anything or anyone in this world who I think can do no wrong and nothing and no-one I wouldn't question. You start worshiping the military or the state, you no longer have the freedom people supposedly fought and died for.

Vets looking around all sad wondering what it is their buddies died for, and the truth is empty and bleak as the promises of our government. People fought and died, because our leadership is a greedy bunch of cowards in service to politics.



You would ask if you lived in many of the troubled countries in the world. Of that I have no doubt. lucky for you, you live in a country where you can take it for granted and not have to ask.

si shen





Yeah? So who should I ask to die for me first, eh? Because this nation is going to shit, lemme tell you.

I'll die for myself, thanks much. Keep that military white knighting well away from me. Got enough blood on my hands.



Not a white knight for the military. Just like to point out how easy it is to dismiss that the military is why we are not speaking German today or other languages of other invaders.

si shen



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Monday, June 23, 2014 4:53 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Not a white knight for the military. Just like to point out how easy it is to dismiss that the military is why we are not speaking German today or other languages of other invaders.



English is a Germanic language. And WE are invaders here. But that aside...

You know that in WW1, Germany tried to convince Mexico to fight against the US to regain some of it's lost territory, like Texas? Know why that didn't happen?

We're pretty isolated from Europe, which is what led in big part to our own revolution against England. And we have a bunch of land, meaning we can generate and hold our own food pretty well. Most of us back then were (and still are) armed.

Still the big problem was distances. Germany was so far away that we actually intercepted their message - not that I think Mexico would actually have taken Germany up on the offer (they didn't, by the way, it wasn't even really seriously considered due to the other two above points).

Heck, in WW2 Japan was more likely to take over America than Germany, but Japan wasn't really that keen on it either with the distances beyond Pearl Harbor. Plus they were too busy trying to hit us with exploding weather balloons.

Anyway. From what I've seen, a big standing military isn't made for defense, a standing military is what happens when someone has something you want. In the time of the World Wars the reason we even had an impressive military was because of the draft. And our constitution talks about having a MILITIA, which is a vastly different thing from a military.

And all of this still isn't getting into how it's pretty much indisputable that it's a bad idea to put anything up on a pedestal and never question it.

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