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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

...but I can't even get Obamacare because we're not extending Medicaid in Indiana and the $2k+ per year premium I would be forced to pay as a smoker would be about 25% of my Net Income for the year. Not only am I not guaranteed coverage from any smoke related illinesses with the insane tobacoo taxes I pay, but I don't even come close to qualifying for an affordable "Universal" healthcare plan in my mid 30s.

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
That sounds like it is entirely the fault of your state government. They are refusing to help poor(er) people just to poke President Obama in the eye.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's like any other addictive behavior which seriously impacts collective health. Overeating, for example. Drinking. The obese ARE discriminated against and yes, they get dirty looks too, especially every time they eat or try to squeeze into an airline seat.

The question is how best to reduce the behavior? There are collective and individual responses possible.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Don't tell me that I can't smoke in a parking-lot in my own car. This rule is mostly limited to hospitals. COME ON.... It's absolutely ridiculous that I can't smoke in my own car in the parking lot.

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It's like any other addictive behavior which seriously impacts collective health.

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Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Don't tell me that I can't smoke in a parking-lot in my own car. This rule is mostly limited to hospitals. COME ON.... It's absolutely ridiculous that I can't smoke in my own car in the parking lot.

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This always pissed me off, especially when I was dealing with the aftermath of an all-but-stroke, a severe case acute-febrile-whatthefuck, and neurocomplications on top of it, that the goddamn motherfucking hospital felt the desperate NEED to throw it in caffiene/nicotene WITHDRAWL on top of it, cause yeah, that's gonna HELP the situation, sure, not to mention the psychological impact on a patient who really doesn't fear death any more, sure, make them WANT to die, greeeeat idea in practice, yes ?

Dumb bastards.
FUCK your fifty feet.

-Frem

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Originally posted by SignyM:
If we're spending our collective money to make up for lack of people's health (and that may mean putting their neglected children in care because of parental addiction) then whatever someone else does with their health affects me. That's not even counting things like epidemics and lost productivity.

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That is such an obtuse point of view Signy, especially when it's directed only at smokers.

Show me a healthy person who doesn't indulge in behavior that would cost you in the long run and I'll show you a liar.

If we're going to look at it that way, then I require anyone who is fat to pay half of the taxes that I have to pay to smoke. Then let's add anybody who has had a DUI. Then people with a motorcycle license. Then let's have fair drug testing that doesn't isolate pot smokers and finds out who is abusing the hard-core drugs that aren't stored in your fat cells, and tax them accordingly.

Outside of the realm of health, there is plenty of behaviors both addictive and non-addictive that people do everyday that should be taxed out of existence as well. Gambling and extreme Credit Card debt come to mind. But then again, since MONEY is at the heart of these addictions, it doesn't matter how much you tax the behavior. These people were just going to file for bankruptcy anyways.

For them, I say open up debtors prisons again. Give everyone fair warning that they have one more chance to file for bankruptcy. If they can't get their debt under control and somehow can't pay off their debts after they've been given a clean slate, then it's off to debtors prison for them where they have to spend 8 hours every day doing menial work for free until their debts are paid off.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
'Outside of the realm of health, there is plenty of behaviors both addictive and non-addictive that people do everyday that should be taxed out of existence as well."

I think there should be a similar tax on sugar and anything that uses added sugar. It's the #1 cause of obesity in the US.

ETA: As I think about it, I'd also forbid adding sugar to babyfood. Sugar is addictive to a large percentage of the population.

If we use cigarettes as an example - at this point, no thanks to the tobacco industry - everyone who picks up a smoke knows that tobacco is bad for you. They may be too young to fully understand the risks, but no one is forcing them to do something against their will or their best interests.

Babies aren't in a position to choose. They're being fed an addictive substance that will harm them later in life. And that substance is there ONLY to add to the profitability of a corporation.

And we think that's a normal way to run a society. How fucked up are we in our worship of capitalism and 'freedom'?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"And while we're feeling all friendly about letting the children choose, I'd like to be able to start a class action lawsuit of primarily white American boys who had half of their junk cut off when they were born."

I think you'd have to show harm. The data is 50-50 so far.

In principle I agree with you, but not for the same reasons as forbidding sugar. The two situations aren't equivalent.

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If we're going to look at it that way, then I require anyone who is fat to pay half of the taxes that I have to pay to smoke. Then let's add anybody who has had a DUI. Then people with a motorcycle license. Then let's have fair drug testing that doesn't isolate pot smokers and finds out who is abusing the hard-core drugs that aren't stored in your fat cells, and tax them accordingly.

Outside of the realm of health, there is plenty of behaviors both addictive and non-addictive that people do everyday that should be taxed out of existence as well. Gambling and extreme Credit Card debt come to mind.

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But focusing on businesses selling addictive substances for profit might be a reasonable societal option.

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Excuse me 6Six but what about those of the population that suffer from something called Hypoglycemia which means "low blood sugar" and have to have that cup of coffee with sugar or soda when out to keep from fainting and going to the hospital? Speaking as someone who does, I don't appreciate if I ever get back down to the US maybe having to do that.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:


I can maybe agree with that. Many businesses can be pretty evil about deliberately trying to encourage addiction.

Although there would need to be different approaches for anything with potential intellectual value - such as video games, internet, and television. Availability of information and art is important, and we can't allow those to be either prohibited or controlled. Models of consumption, however, CAN be changed, to discourage addiction.

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physician Paracelsus famously said, "The dose makes the poison," meaning that even harmless substances can become toxic if you eat enough of them. Many people ask me, "Is high fructose syrup really that bad for you?" And my answer to this question is "Yes," mainly for this very reason.

In America today, we are eating huge doses of sugar, especially high fructose corn syrup. It is sweeter and cheaper than regular sugar and is in every processed food and sugar-sweetened drink. Purging it from your diet is the single best thing you can do for your health!

In recent history, we've gone from 20 teaspoons of sugar per person per year to about 150 pounds of sugar per person per year. That's a half pound a day for every man, woman, and child in America. The average 20-ounce soda contains 15 teaspoons of sugar, all of it high fructose corn syrup. And when you eat sugar in those doses, it becomes a toxin.

As part of the chemical process used to make high fructose corn syrup, the glucose and fructose -- which are naturally bound together -- become separated. This allows the fructose to mainline directly into your liver, which turns on a factory of fat production in your liver called lipogenesis.

This leads to fatty liver, the most common disease in America today, affecting 90 million Americans. This, in turn, leads to diabesity -- pre-diabetes and Type 2 diabetes. So, high fructose corn syrup is the real driver of the current epidemic of heart attacks, strokes, cancer, dementia, and of course, Type 2 diabetes.

HFCS contains dangerous chemicals and contaminants

Beside the ginormous load of pure fructose and sugar found in HCFS, as an added bonus, it contains other chemical toxins. Chemical contaminants used during manufacturing end up in the HFCS and in our food. What we know, for example, is that chloralkali is used in making high fructose corn syrup. Chloralkai contains mercury. And there are trace amounts of mercury found in high fructose corn syrup-containing beverages. Now, it may not be a problem if we eat this occasionally, but the average person in the country consumes more than 20 teaspoons a day of high fructose corn syrup and the average teenager has 34 teaspoons a day. Over time, these heavy metals can accumulate in the body, causing health problems.

Additionally, when we look at the chemical components of high fructose corn syrup on a spectrograph, we can see that it contains many weird chemicals that we know nothing about. That's why I say better safe than sorry.

Look out for the red flag

The main reason you should give up high fructose corn syrup is that it's a big red flag for very poor quality food. If you see this ingredient on a label, I guarantee you the food is processed junk. So, if high fructose corn syrup is anywhere on the label, put it back on the shelf. You should never eat this food.

If you want to stay healthy, lose weight easily, get rid of chronic disease, and help reduce the obesity epidemic, the single most important thing you can do is eliminate high fructose corn syrup from your diet and from your children's diet. Just banish it from your house.

Purge your kitchen

I challenge you to go into your kitchen right now, go in the cupboard and refrigerator, and look at every single label. And I want you to count how many products you have right now in your house that contain high fructose corn syrup. Then, I want you to get a big garbage bag and throw them out and find replacements that are free of it.

If you want to have some sugar, that's fine. Have a little sugar, but add it to your food yourself. Don't eat food made with added sugar. Cut the high fructose corn syrup from your life forever. You'll be healthier. Our planet will be healthier. And we'll have a healthier generation of children.

Wishing you health and happiness,

Mark Hyman, M.D.

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Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

I got a better idea, how bout leaving people the fuck alone, staying out of their lives, and not trying to nitpick and micromanage lives that do not BELONG to you, hrmmm ?

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What about the fucking companies that are making billions out of brainwashing the public into putting shit into their bodies?

Once again, people are not islands of individuality. If your brother, mother, father, friend is killing themselves through addiction, that impacts on you.

So bring out your pat libertarian one liners. They don't reflect any reality that I know. I live in a family, a society. What happens to others impacts upon me.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
So 6, do you think you could take one day off from being a drunken douche?

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Byte

Do you think parents should be free to buy heroin and feed it to their babies at every meal as a matter of personal choice? For the record.

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Byte, I gave you the quote of your post, in full, that lead to that question. Perhaps you can't see how your post would leave that impression. So here it is again:

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Anarchists ... believe, and quite firmly, that people can and will act in the best interests of a society or community *without* some government goon forcing them to under threat of violence

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Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Oh, and do me the favor of not calling me a Libertarian, that's insulting.
Anarchists believe in freedom for all, not just the rich.



-F

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